[jubjub]

Under the Holidays Act 2003, employees are entitled to a minimum of three weeks' annual holidays after the first year of employment. This provision is increased to a minimum of four weeks' annual holidays from 1 April 2007



How many of you have been held to the above clause in your employment contracts (IT folks especially)?

Current employer has allowed hols from day one, pro rata for the year, not affecting the next years allowance. New contracts that have been offered so far have had the above clause, but are willing to let holidays be taken in advance, this means 7.5 days per year over a two year period, which is just rubbish (although legal). With a new child and possible trips to the UK this is almost impossible to accept?

Experiences folks? anyone negotiated pro rate allowance from day one, or have you all been made to wait 12 months? Or are the NZ employers just taking the mickey out of us immigrants?

[Moorf]

Both Woz and myself are earning our hols as we go along - Woz's contract (I.T) does state that he needs to wait a year before taking hols but this has not been upheld. (when he first joined last Nov he asked for 2 weeks off in the Dec as his sister flew over with her family and this was granted with no probs).

Again, my library (council contract) allows you to take it as you earn it - and entitlement is 4 weeks holiday and 10 days sick. Any doc's appt's/dentist appts get put down as "sick".

I know of only one person (they're on this forum so they'll probably respond) who has not been allowed ANY holiday for a year... I guess it's up to the employer whether they wish to enforce it or not.

[Gran]

Here you are folks-

http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/holidays/annual.html

Gran

[neilw71]

Fisher & Paykel in general will make you work to earn the entitlement. My wife will have worked 8 months this year without any holiday, and as such will only be entitled to a pro-rata number of days NEXT year ! Appauling in my opinion, as I get the entitlement straight away working for Fletchers - it means it will be 2007 before we are both inline and able to know we can plan things in advance.

Neil

[jubjub]

The job market is tight for employers just now, I'm simply going to refuse to sign a contract that doesn't give me proper holidays from day 1.

I figure if they're not going to do that, they're not going to be a nice place to work anyway

Sal's Husband

[Moorf]

I figure if they're not going to do that, they're not going to be a nice place to work anyway




Absolutely, I am really surprised they can get away with it, would be a bad sign in my eyes if an employer could see a staff member go without a holiday for a year.

[Cardiff Irons]

Surely not in the best interests of an employer to offer no or little holiday. Without a break to recharge the batteries, employees are just going to lower their output (subconsciously or consciously) over time.

I'm tempted to tell my story of the Canadian lumberjack who didn't take time out to sharpen his saw (probably no need now, as I've given away the punchline)!:roll

[Moorf]

Was he axed?








Sorry :o :uhoh

[Cardiff Irons]

Was he axed?:laugh:laugh:laugh

[Singel]

My hubby's company and my company have the same, work-as-you-earn holiday scheme.
If my hubby is ill, my company allows me to take care of my hubby by classify my day off as sick leave.

We worked less than a year and have to go back to Holland for his parents' golden jubilee bash. Our bosses allow us to use up our pro-rata holidays.

Personally, I think it is impossible, and unreasonable to expect someone to work one full year before granting holidays :no

Sorry, Sal's husband, you have to ditch this employer and go for another company that is family-oriented :yes

[ruthyroo]

My impression has been that this clause / arrangement is absolutely bog standard in NZ - it is the norm rather than the exception. I work in public services, and the 'no paid leave for the first year of employment' rule is applied throughout the council. I have got round this by taking unpaid leave when I have wanted to, luckily I have an understanding manager. I agree that it is shocking - as is the standard 15 days annual leave. Kiwis seem to make up for having a fairly relaxed attitude to work when they are there by being there virtually all the time!

[GeorgeM]

According to my contract the company I work for has the rule where you work for a year, accrue the leave and then take it. But this is never enforced - I think that everyone realises that if people have to work for a whole year before having time off they're not going to be performing at 100% by the end.

When I started I was told that they liked to encourage people to limit their holidays until they have worked them up, but it doesn't seem to happen in reality. I think that I took slightly less in my first year, but not by that much.

The whole way in which this sort of thing is worked out in NZ seems so overcomplicated. In the UK if you're on an annual salary you get so many days and you just take them sometime during the year. No need to calculate how much you should be paid for holiday days as opposed to working days, and if you get ahead of yourself and then leave the company they just dock the outstanding days from your last pay packet. So why so complicated here? An overhang, I think, from an incredibly over-regulated country of a couple of decades ago. Unfortunately the changes brought in last year seem to have made it worse rather than better...

[Tara Sage]

I was told No holiday for a year, I have had the odd day but they weren't very happy about it!!

Anyway my first year anniversary is up 1/11 and I have aweek booked off from the 8th.

Can't wait not that I am going away just be nice to sit back and chill for a few days and my niece will be here from the UK.

5 weeks till my holiday Yippeee!!!!!

[bob_the_engineer]

Woz's contract (I.T) does state that he needs to wait a year before taking hols

Does Woz get paid hols?

contracting in the UK you get no holiday pay, no sick pay no training time.
You do get some things, you get charged NI twice, you get charged more tax and you get charged VAT too.

No wonder the engineering industry is lagging in the UK

Bob

[Moorf]

Does Woz get paid hols?


Yes, but that's because he wasn't on a self-employed contract (as he was back in the UK). He was employed for one year PAYE (as we didn't have PR at the time and were on work visa's waiting for our ITA's). The contract then got updated to "indefinite" once we had PR etc.

He has recently registered with the tax office here to be self-employed alongside his PAYE employed status as he is doing contract work from the UK too - was v. easy to do too.

[Moorf]

I work in public services, and the 'no paid leave for the first year of employment' rule is applied throughout the council.



I, too, am employed via a local Council (Chch) and they do allow us to take holidays in first year as long as you have earned them.

However, my brother is visiting for a month, arriving 8th December, and they are allowing me to take off 2.5 weeks and I'll only have worked there, part time, for 2.5 months by that time.

[bob_the_engineer]

Thanks for your answer Moorf,

Carrying out UK contracts while in NZ didn’t even cross my mind, that could be a really interesting prospect. I’ll have to look into it

Cheers Bob

[Moorf]

Bob,

Feel free to PM Woz if you want any info on working from UK on contract whilst living in NZ :yes

Moorf

[adamsat]

I'm earning my leave as I go along, up to the total of 16 days in the first year. It gets credited to me at 2.5 hours per week (give or take a few minutes) and I can take it as soon as I've earned it. The holiday entitlement might be a lot loss than I got in the UK but by the time you add on the public holidays and "government" holidays (it's a public service job too) and the fact that sick leave seems to treated the same as annual leave back in the UK (you can even carry it over from year to year!) means that I could probably take the same paid time off in a year as I could in the UK.

[Tia Maria]

I've been reading this thread with interest, as its been one of our main concerns, partly because we have two young children and something always seems to come up. But, also because we just want a chance to explore NZ when we get there, and you can do so much more with a 4 day weekend, than 2.

My OH is in IT (Senior programmer), were any of the replies from others in IT? I would love to know which NZ IT employers are reasonably flexible.

In addition, do they have paternity leave or parental leave? And if they do, do most people take it?

Are there more pulic holidays in NZ than in UK?

Cheers.

[Moorf]

My hubby is a s/ware developer and his co. gives 4 wks hols, but then the whole of his co. gets that from receptionist through to directors. Christchurch Council gives 4 weeks hols.

For parental leave see: http://www.ers.dol.govt.nz/parentalleave/general.html

[jubjub]

There is parental leave, something that is a current concern to us, hubbys co have agreed to give it to him even though he has not been there 12 months (which is very nice of them!) However for those not entitled to parental leave, there is some kind of tax back situation, so you end up with extra income instead, of you can choose between the money or the time off.

Not sure how it works for the mums though.

[Stu]

Given the high demand for staff in most businesses in NZ right now, the v. low unemployment rate, I would have thought anyone negotiating an employment contract would be pretty much able to stipulate their holiday/sick leave etc issues when being interviewed? Or are the jobs not that easy to find as I had been led to believe?

I think if a skilled worker were to agree to everythnig, but insist on holidays being available within the 1st year, then that is not too much of a biggie really. If they don't agree, I think you are right, they would be pretty miserable types to work for.

Please do not expect a career in asparagus picking though, eh... no holidays at ALL in this game! (hell, we only work for 10 weeks total! :-) )
cheers, Stu.

[baboonworld]

Contracts should be negotiated before you sign them - if they have offered you the job then they probably definately want YOU and not someone else. My dad is a NZ employer and he says that contracts can be negotiated. It will be upsetting for my Stu to leave 27 days hol behind though! He wont get that in NZ!

[Do B Brief]

One of my job offers were with PWC in Welly who only give 3 weeks holiday.

As I had another job offer I tried to bargain and see if they would go to 4 weeks but they said no so I went with the alternative which was offering 4 weeks hols.

I was going to accept this one anyway but was curious to see if they would up the hols a bit but never did.

We have to gain our hols as we go along as our pay statements include holiday earned so far but going back a few years in the UK, wasn't it normal to work the year before being allowed to take your holidays?

I am going back to 1986 when I worked for a company that would not let me take holiday for the first year and then when you left you got paid this holiday in cash (after tax of course).

[jonSE]

Despite the low unemployment and skills shortage it seems bigger employers are taking a while to catch on. I tried to get 25 days hols (was offered 20) in return for a commensurate reduction in pay but was politely informed that only directors got 5 weeks hols, and giving it to me would rock the boat too much - which is understandable.

That said NZ employers seem to be more amenable to letting you disappear off early to go sailing.

[jubjub]

Well, upshot is, new contract hubby was offered did indeed have this phrasing in it, but when questioned they said, in reality, he earnt holidays as you go along, and if he needed more than he had earned they would be unpaid, fair enough I reckon. So he can take holidays from day 1.

They are even letting him take unpaid leave when he will only have been there a couple of weeks so he can spend time with Junior when they get here.......

[jay1]

For places that shut down for Christmas, do you have to save holiday to cover it? It varies in the UK. Daniel (Hubby) has to save his, while the company I work for say it is their choice to shut down so I don't have to.

[Jaideco]

Hi Guys,

My contract came through two days ago and sure enough, I have this clause (4 weeks hol but only after 12 months) as well... I have bounced a query back to HR and I am going to try to negotiate some sort of arrangement.

I shall keep you informed as to what happens.

[StevieD]

No Moorf he got the chop for not maintaining company tools! :laugh

[Jaideco]

Ok, company got back to me...

The holiday allowance in my offer is infact 20 days + 11 public holidays. Of these 10 days are to be taken over a compulsory "Closedown period" for Christmas. Holiday days are treated in effect as being earned pro-rata despite the wording in the contract. So I think this means that I can schedule 14 days of holiday whenever I feel like it over the rest of the year.

I would definately check up on this and make sure that you would be happy with what you company can offer. If they are prepared to negotiate at all, it might be possible to extend your holiday allowance by either building up hours ahead of time, or negotiating a higher starting salary with a view to taking time off unpaid.

Regards,