[Avalon]

So, we have this snazzy new house, which is warm as toast when the sun shines but an ice box when it doesnt, and we have started thinking about how to make it more efficient and cheaper to heat.

We really want to look at solar power (or other alternatives - im not picky) and wondered if anyone has had experience of coverting a house to solar. Im currently reading an "idiots Guide" but its written for america which is not helpful for resources and such. apparently ove rthere there are buckets of incentives for fitting solar to your house - is there such a thing in NZ?

We have a pool which is not currently heated and it seems a bit "unfair" to use up electricty to heat a pool, and we are curreently running a jacuzzi at 37 degrees, which im also not looking forward to seeing the effect of on our first bill.

Can you use solar power to actually "run" central heating off (currently no radiators in the house - just a heat pump to transfer heat from a long burner to the downstairs master bedroom and hallway - upstairs we freeze!).

I know solar has been talked about on other threads, but i thought id start one specifically for it if thats ok.

Cheers

[veronica]

If you were in Chch I know a guy who has come over here from the UK and set a business up in Solar stuff. but no info on wellington. IF I see the man will ask him if he knows anyone up there.

[driver]

We have solar panels here in the uk but they only heat the water, is it possible then to have them heat the house as well? I suppose you just adjust the electricity generated to where ever it is wanted is it that simple?

[Moorf]

Hey Avalon - can we see some pics of your new pad? :) :nice1

[adamsat]

We've thought about solar power too. We move into our new house on Thursday and have a company called solartech coming round on Saturday to quote. I've already spoken to them on the phone and described the set up in the house, which has a wet back stove running a boiler and radiators. They say they have a system that can cope, mentioning something about converting the radiators to ethanol?

There's also some government assistance available, via an interest free loan.

Hopefully I'll have some more info soon.

[Avalon]

Andy-

can you keep me posted please - im way behind you on this!

Moorf -

as soon as i figure out how (and as long as it doesnt take all afternoon to upload!)

[dbonnett]

Avalon, your post sent me scurrying off to google; here are some of the links I found:
http://www.solarindustries.org.nz/info_solar.html (Industry trade group)
Info on interest free loan: http://www.solarindustries.org.nz/documents/EEC0022_Solar%20Flier_050610.pdf
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=39&objectid=3589376 has info on possible legislation about solar heating being required for new construction
Info from the govt on solar heating potential:http://www.eeca.govt.nz/publications/publications.aspx?MediaCatID=5#12
A house in Welly: http://www.solarhomes.com/03-portfolio/wadestown/portfolio-wadestown.html

This is a strange thread for my first post (after months of lurking), but concern about the energy supply is one of the factors driving our interest in NZ. Right now we are in one of the sunnier parts of the US (Boulder, against the Rocky Mountains) and we hope to be able to use solar ourselves to keep the long term cost of housing down for us.

If I find more resources, I will send them along or post them here.

[Avalon]

Thats a pretty helpful first post!

Ill look throughthe links over the week, and ill keep you posted.

I hadnt even got as far as google yet! (I feel sooooo lazy about now!)

Cheers

[Miffy]

ooooooh saw on the news yesterday about a bloke in Queenstown that has solar power and he generates so much he has done a deal with Connet to supply them with his surplus!!!!
I'm sure it was on channel 1 news or the ½ hour current affairs program on after so there may be a link via their website ????

Solar power is defo the way forward, and if we ever maange to do a self build we will be using solar power for our electricity.

[Tara Sage]

Andy

let us know how you get on, we have also thought of having solar put in at the new place.

Cheers

Tara

[Avalon]

Solar power is defo the way forward, and if we ever maange to do a self build we will be using solar power for our electricity.

My limited research so far says - DO IT FIRST! The extra cost involved in putting solar water heaters in instead of electric is small compared with the cost of replacing electric with solar. (which is what we have to do).

Ive got some brochures to read through, but ive got back after 2 days away to find my swimming pool is green (algae I guess) so my first job tomorrow is to find out what i should have been doing to the pool that I didnt do and get it sorted.

(And having a swimming pool seemed such a good idea!)

[Moorf]

You could try a salt water pool - I believe they don't have as many maintenance probs as chlorinated / chem treated pools. :)

[Avalon]

Im going to look into that (already had my hair ruined by daily swimming in the UK - and im rather fussy about my hair).

Once i get the pool un-gunked - thats my next job. I juts didnt really realise that I had so much to do - I figured I could leave the pool a few weeks until we want to use it. Also need to get a cover for it.

Ho Hum - the joys of home ownership!!!

[Simon & Emily]

Try using a Floatron in your pool. It mineralises the water, so that nothing will grow. Here in the UK they cost about £200 - 250, but worth every penny. Once the water has all been treated - simply by leaving it floating in the water - it's simply a matter of working out how often you need to take it out to ensure that you don't get a build up of the metals. You still need to use a small amount of chlorine to ensure that everthing is killed off (such as legionairs disease :no , any children using it as a toilet etc), but a very small amount. It also works in spas, (I'm sure that I read you had got a new one?) as long as it's in the sun with the cover off once in a while to treat the water.

Pool and spa merchants may well be against them - they are here in the UK - basically because they then lose the repeat business on the chemical sales.

I've got a link somewhere in my favourites - I'll post it when I can find it.

I know they have a site in NZ, as I already checked to make sure we could get spares, but here is the general homepage:-

http://floatron.com/

Emily

Emily

[Avalon]

Cheers Emily.

Its just .co.nz for here.

Never seen this before - but it looks good. Ill get the horrid green mess dealt with and then probably order one.

Thanks

[katandbob]

Good idea, I saw a program on tv over here the other month, it was really easy to hook the houses up - they also did Wind power - have you looked into this - may be ideal in "windy welly"

kat

[Avalon]

Havent seen wind power advertised anywhere for indivual use. May look into that as an alternative , or to add to a sloar system.

I have a few brouchures for solar, but most of them seem to run underfloor heating - which is no good for us. When my parents are in and settled 0 im going to get a few companies to come round and talk to me.

Pools -

Salt water pools still chlorinate - bottom line - you have to have the same amount of free chlorine in the pool whether you use "Chlorine" or salt. Reading about this - if your pool smells of Chlorine - it doesnt have enough chlorine in it. The smell comes from Chloramines - not free chlorine which is the disinfectant. If you have enough free chlorine - chloramines dont form, and you dont get the smell. You have to balance 4 different chemical reactions in the pool. Oh what fun!!!!!! No honestly - Im actually really enjoying it - Bucket Chemistry - Heaven.

Im not convinced by the Floatron - but im going to see how we get on and if im not happy with the pool as is - I will look at it again.

For skin / hair problems - its pH you need to control.

[lisa]

We had Solartech visit us last Saturday but are still waiting for the quote. The government assistance is a interest free loan up to $6K. You can have a larger loan but you are then subject to interest.

Some of the facts they gave me during the visit (no hard sell so far):
During the winter in Canterbury on a fine day the water should heat to 37c (average piped water temp is 2-6c.)
A secondary source of power will be needed to guarentee hot water
Over the course of a year should save 70-90% of costs of producing hot water.

[Avalon]

Lisa,

Are you planning on juts water heating or to actually run the home heating off solar?

[katandbob]

heres a site from the UK where you can read up about wind turbines http://www.bwea.com/you/index.htmlhttp://www.bwea.com/you/index.html

and heres one in NZ http://www.windenergy.org.nz/FAQ/diy.htm

and then theres always water mills for those who have a stream on their property!

Kat

[StevieD]

Any more info on the solar panels guys?? Where to get them and cost etc..

[adamsat]

We finally got our quote for the Solar power. $9.5K and no guarentee it would work effectively with the existing wet back system.

Time to start again...........

[Avalon]

Well, 9.5K doesnt sound too bad to me but what the hell is this "no guarentee thing"?

Dis they give any explanation as to why not? In our case we dont have a wetback - so thats not an issue for us.

Would you consider trying another company? I only ask because we have found with our Broadband situation that while most people just throw thier hands up in horror at the mere thought that we may want to live rural AND have an internet connection - we have found one company who is not only willing to discuss the possiblity, but to actually try and be inventive about it! It definately seems that there are peopel who can be bothered and those that cant.

On saying that - in the search for Fly Screens today - everyone we talked was in the "cant" category. Not a happy bunny!

[Gran]

We got flyscreens right thru today, lovely, they were from Rylock, hinged at the top. The magnetic ones have to have black magnets around the window and only seem to come in black.

[Avalon]

Try using a Floatron in your pool. I

Emily

Emily
Just wanted to bump this and say that I bit the bullet - and yesterday went an a spending spree and bought a Floatron! So ill see how it goes.

Also - on an environmental thingy - got a Centameter - measure electrical useage and even converts it into the cost. Hopefully get that set up today!

So thanks to Emily for potentially cutting down on my pool maintainance.

[k-k]

Hi Avalon

Just read your last post about the Floatron thingy. We were at the home and garden expo yesterday and got some info on it, planning ahead for the new pool. Sounds like a good idea, I'll be interested to see how you get on with it. I'd like to know how much it will save on chemicals and hard work etc. They were quoting $950 so how long before you recoup your money. Mind you it sounds a nice enviromentally friendly thing.

Also spoke to some folks about solar water heating and it sounded quite promising. Solar Advantage in Petone use a tube system instead of a flat panel, seems to be easy to fit to existing water heating systems and works along with a wet back (which we'll have). I know it's all hype but he was talking about a 75% reduction in water heating costs and guaranteeing the system for 7 years.
Also got details from Solahart (can't remember where they were based) they use the regular panels. And also from Sensible Solar who use the tube systems.
All the above said they'd have to come and quote for the house and were reluctant to give prices. You also need to apply for resourse consent which of course costs.

Karen

[jo-and-jeff]

Well, it's not much, but it's something...
Government spending $15.5m to increase solar heating

1.00pm Thursday November 23, 2006


The Government will spend $15.5 million over the next 3-4 years to increase the use of solar water heating.

Green Party co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons, Government spokeswoman on Energy Efficiency and Conservation, said the funding would be spread over 3-1/2 years.

About half would go towards increasing current funding of $300 to $500 to pay interest on loans taken out to install solar water heating systems which cost up to $8000.

The rest would be spent on information provision, promotion, industry training and standards, solar heating of government buildings and an innovation fund.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10412111

[Avalon]

Hang on a minute. You mean to say that the pathetic $300 wasnt even to pay for SOlar heating - but to pay the flippin' banks ?????????

What exactly is "green" about the green party :mad: Lining the banks pockets with taxpayer funds is NOT something they should be supporting. Im even more disgusted with them than I was before.

Also - on an environmental thingy - got a Centameter - measure electrical useage and even converts it into the cost. Hopefully get that set up today!

And dont bother with this guy either - hes a rip off merchant. You need to get an electrician in to fit the device - which then makes it way more than the $169 you are charged up front. ANd hes dishonest about it - telling you you can fit it yourself. But you wire it to the electricity meter - so really you cant. We couldnt fit it to ours at all because of the way I meter is put in - so I had to send the device back. The guy has been a complete jerk and messed me round no end. I finally got a cheque back off him today (7 weeks later) and hes only gone and given me back $15 less than I paid (to cover a "restocking charge") :mad: Im getting really fed up with people trying to rip me off in this country. Had enough of that rubbish back home.

[Avalon]

Hi Avalon

Just read your last post about the Floatron thingy. We were at the home and garden expo yesterday and got some info on it, planning ahead for the new pool. Sounds like a good idea, I'll be interested to see how you get on with it. I'd like to know how much it will save on chemicals and hard work etc. They were quoting $950 so how long before you recoup your money. Mind you it sounds a nice enviromentally friendly thing.


Karen
Regarding the Floatron. Ive only just put it in the pool (it produces copper ions and we had high enough levels in the pool already from the winteriser we had put in). So ill let you know. One thing though - the instructions say you should have the filter on during sunlight hours. The floatron produces the ions when the sun shines (it has a solar panel) and I guess you then need to filter them round the pool. Problem is - electricity costs more during the day - so Im wondering if the savings on chemicals are going to be wiped out by the extra leccy costs - as we filter 8 hours overnight.

Im going to assume it wont matter too much and continue to filter at night and see what happens.

[katandbob]

We've thought about solar power too. We move into our new house on Thursday and have a company called solartech coming round on Saturday to quote. I've already spoken to them on the phone and described the set up in the house, which has a wet back stove running a boiler and radiators. They say they have a system that can cope, mentioning something about converting the radiators to ethanol?

There's also some government assistance available, via an interest free loan.

Hopefully I'll have some more info soon.

I'd be interested in this....as we too have a "warm house by kiwi standards" but I want it to be warmer!

Kat

[katandbob]

I only ask because we have found with our Broadband situation that while most people just throw thier hands up in horror at the mere thought that we may want to live rural AND have an internet connection - we have found one company who is not only willing to discuss the possiblity, but to actually try and be inventive about it!




OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! do tell.......... I am getting fed up of the attitude of the attitude to "your too far away from the exchange!"

I wish I could find a company that was willing to figure out a compromise for our broadband connection!

Kat

[Smiler]

OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! do tell.......... I am getting fed up of the attitude of the attitude to "your too far away from the exchange!"

I wish I could find a company that was willing to figure out a compromise for our broadband connection!

Kat

Kat did you get my PM about BB?

D x

[Avalon]

OOOOOOHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! do tell.......... I am getting fed up of the attitude of the attitude to "your too far away from the exchange!"

I wish I could find a company that was willing to figure out a compromise for our broadband connection!

Kat
Kat -

We went with WiseNet - who have been bought out by Orcon. We have a radio BB connection - which basically means we have a small radio dish in the paddock pointing towards a distant hill. We get a VERY fast connection and the only problems are :
a/ Our power here is a bit iffy and when we get brown-outs we need to reset the router in order to get a connection
b/ The sheep have helpfully being rubbing up against the pole and twisting the dish (I kinda figure this is one of those "only in New Zealand" things).

Generally - they would put the dish on your roof - like a sattelite dish - but we couldnt do that - so its stuck on a pole in the field.

It cost us $3k for the install (it can often be less than this - it depends on distance from the transmitter - and if anyone else already has a system you can bounce off), and we pay $73 a month - thats for unlimited access.

HTH

[katandbob]

Kat -

We went with WiseNet - who have been bought out by Orcon. We have a radio BB connection - which basically means we have a small radio dish in the paddock pointing towards a distant hill. We get a VERY fast connection and the only problems are :
a/ Our power here is a bit iffy and when we get brown-outs we need to reset the router in order to get a connection
b/ The sheep have helpfully being rubbing up against the pole and twisting the dish (I kinda figure this is one of those "only in New Zealand" things).

Generally - they would put the dish on your roof - like a sattelite dish - but we couldnt do that - so its stuck on a pole in the field.

It cost us $3k for the install (it can often be less than this - it depends on distance from the transmitter - and if anyone else already has a system you can bounce off), and we pay $73 a month - thats for unlimited access.

HTH

cheers - bet they are only in Nth Island But I will have a look any way! Cheers!

Kat (fingers xd)

[swank]

Kat -
We get a VERY fast connection

Kat, do you know the exact speed you get?

[jubjub]

Kat -

b/ The sheep have helpfully being rubbing up against the pole and twisting the dish (I kinda figure this is one of those "only in New Zealand" things).



:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

I just spat my wine on the keyboard... that's classic!

Kat, I really hope you find a solution soon, it will make you family like so much easier... how long to Cole cuddles now??

[Avalon]

I just spat my wine on the keyboard... that's classic!


I aim to please :D


Kat, do you know the exact speed you get?

Hey - not sure if that was actually for Kat or me - but in case it was me:

My IT department (hubby) says: currently 3-3.5 meg. We were getting 7-10meg when we first went online with Wisenet - but since Orcon took over we seem to be down quite a bit. Which is odd - because when we dealt with WN - we were actually on an Orcon account anyway.

One of the guys from WN (the name is still in use - its now a wholly owned subsiduary apparently) - is looking at fiddling with the mast to get us a bit more juice.

Does that help at all?

Hxxx

[StevieD]

Kat, looking at their website they reckon they are nationwide - may be worth a call???

Steve

[Caroline and Dave]

Hi all,
We have been looking at solar for our new house and you may find these useful
www.wellwindenergy.co.nz
www.sola60.co.nz
www.ablesolar.co.nz

Sola60 do a specific panel for swimmimg pools.


Hope this helps

Kindest regards

Dave and Caroline

[katandbob]

Kat, looking at their website they reckon they are nationwide - may be worth a call???

Steve

hi this thread has switched a bit so to answer 2 questions - my speed in the lounge (wireless) today was zilch, but if I moved to my bedroom nearer the Woosh wireless gizmo I get the following (while missing the film!)

266kbps download
44 kbps upload

the trouble with woosh is it doesnt support video conferencing or gaming - if they changed that it probably would be better!

Rob says give up!the kids say PAY ANYTHING!

ha ha I wish!

As to Solar I found an ad in the paper for a solar company that recon they can install a solar system for $35 a week, so I am going to give them a call - along with a wall insulation company and a central heating company (I AM going to get sorted before next winter!!!!!! :( )

hopefully....oh well off to watch the rest of the film

Kat :nice1

and I will google the company tomorrow!

[Myrkk]

I don't know if this will be any use down in NZ.....

We've been gradually converting our house in Wales to Green'er' energy and have been researching Solar power. There are two types........ the ones which heat your water and the Photo-voltaic [PV} panels [which come in varying types, some even look like normal roof tiles] which provide electricity.

The PV panels are more expensive and the type you choose depends upon how much sun you get. From what I understand though....... and this is the bit I'm not 100% on......... you can't store the electricity they provide. This is why you can get connected to the Grid here and sell your surplus energy back to the National Grid. I would have thought you could have connected it to batteries but I'm not sure.

HTH

[Avalon]

The PV panels are more expensive and the type you choose depends upon how much sun you get. From what I understand though....... and this is the bit I'm not 100% on......... you can't store the electricity they provide. This is why you can get connected to the Grid here and sell your surplus energy back to the National Grid. I would have thought you could have connected it to batteries but I'm not sure.

HTH

Here - you can sell back to the grid BUT:

You have to pay a set up fee to the elctricity company.
You have to pay the leccy company for a new extra meter (yours wont just run backwards)
You have to pay the leccy company a monthly fee for the privalege.
The leccy company buys off you at a fraction of the price they sell to you at (they only buy wholesale dont you know!).

And thats Meridian - apparently the "greenest" leecy company :mad:

Im not sure it would be worth it.

[renew]

Hi all
With PV panels as you correctly state you cant store the electricty - you can sell it back to the grid but as Avalon points out at a cost. PV generally is not going to save you money as the costs will outweigh the savings unless in somewhere like Germany where they you sell your electricty back to the grid at a premium.
I would recomend that you look at solar hot water, be it for heating the water for the house or the water in your swimming pool. Financially though you should start with improving the insulation of your house, draughtproofing and then trying to reduce consumption by turning things off rather than standby etc.

[bob_the_engineer]

Hi all
With PV panels as you correctly state you cant store the electricty - you can sell it back to the grid but as Avalon points out at a cost. PV generally is not going to save you money as the costs will outweigh the savings unless in somewhere like Germany where they you sell your electricty back to the grid at a premium.
I would recomend that you look at solar hot water, be it for heating the water for the house or the water in your swimming pool. Financially though you should start with improving the insulation of your house, draughtproofing and then trying to reduce consumption by turning things off rather than standby etc.


Did you know!

Kiwis are funny, so many bright ideas and yet so bad at marketing!!

Did you know that the technology that runs Chinas semiconductor fabrication facilities actually comes from NZ! First hand experience.

You can get a third generation UPS, double conversion system from here, anything from a 500VA (enough to run a lamp), to MVA’s enough to run a factory right here in NZ. In fact right here in Napier.

A few thousand dollars will get a system for you

A UK house needs around 10kVA, that’s about 40 Amps at 240v. If you interface a solar power system to your UPS you can store all the power you need (beware of a system called line interactive, basically without going into detail its useless).

Third generation transformer-less ups systems are in excess of 97% efficient and you can rig them up to a shed full of car batteries. The autonomy time (run time from batteries) can be huge, depending on the nigh time load and battery pack.

One of many companies that can provide UPS systems is this one:

www.vectek.co.nz

Around $100 will get you a ups that will run a lamp for 0.5 hour that’s the size of a shoe box, a few thousand dollars will get you a system big enough to run your house from (the size of a domestic washing machine) a diesel generator can also be interfaced jut in case the sun isn’t shining

Bob

[swank]

This is a very cool thread!

What are the chances of getting a "Sustainable Living" topic added to the board?

[Myrkk]

That's mad Avalon. With the whole world [well nearly the whole world] screaming about global warming you'd think they would welcome people who install solar energy.

We've put our solar plans on hold at mo. given the possible move to NZ but from what I gather....... here, you have to pay to get an extra meter installed and the electricity you give back to the grid is deducted from your bill. Haven't researched into the price you get for your money yet.

[renew]

In New Zealand do most houses have a hot water tank or is it more instantaneous hot water systems?

[Jenny & Mark]

As a teacher, I use my summer holidays for an electrician and helped to wire a solar/wind powered off grid home (inspiring). I was floored to find that apart from the power authorities needed to complete a general electrical inspection (makes sense), but that two separate inspections were required as well as an additional permit. I guess that if "they" won't be making money for the long haul, then they try to make it impossible and to rake in as much as possible.

Mark.

[SharpBlade]

I saw in The Press today that a sustainability Expo will be in the Rolleston Community Centre on Jan27 and Jan28 (10am-5pm), $5 entry fee.

Also in The Press were a couple of links to solar installers:
www.solartech.co.nz
www.thermocell.co.nz
www.nzsolar.co.nz
www.mirak.co.nz

Solarhart Canterbury (Sumner, 03 384 7023)

[marcia]

In New Zealand do most houses have a hot water tank or is it more instantaneous hot water systems?


NONE - of the houses we have looked at (and believe me we have looked at a lot!!!) have had instant hot water, they call it infinity water here I believe, but they look at you like you're a nutter if ask about it. :no

Most houses use a hot water tank, make sure you have a big one - the first time I threw the boys in the bath and jumped in the shower here, I had a cold shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :exit Now we wait between to give the water chance to heat up!!!!

[CjChris]

Swank said< "This is a very cool thread!

What are the chances of getting a "Sustainable Living" topic added to the board?"

Yes, I like this idea!! :raebanana

[renew]

NONE - of the houses we have looked at (and believe me we have looked at a lot!!!) have had instant hot water, they call it infinity water here I believe, but they look at you like you're a nutter if ask about it. :no

Most houses use a hot water tank, make sure you have a big one - the first time I threw the boys in the bath and jumped in the shower here, I had a cold shock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :exit Now we wait between to give the water chance to heat up!!!!

thanks for that. Makes solar themal easy peasy to install. Now will i be able to pack a solar themal system into the container when i go....

[*Paul]

Possibly not relevant to this very green thread, but last year I calculated the comparative cost of running LPG (bottled gas) in a flue-type heater and a heat pump.

Compared to an electric resistance heater, the LPG produces the same heat at about 1/2 the cost, while the heat pump produces the same heat at about 1/4 the cost.

Of course the capital cost of the heat pump has a big impact on overall cost, plus you'll need a big unit to compete with a typical gas heater. However the cleaner room air from the heat pump is a big plus.

My apartment has an on-demand water heater (Rinnai Infinity 20) run off bottled gas. For one person it's ideal - I use less than a bottle (about $80) a year, and the temperature control and flow rate is excellent.