[susanlin]

Hi

I know someone who is considering emigrating to Canada. Just got me thinking about the differences between NZ and Canada. Why choose Canada over NZ? What has Canada got that NZ hasn't? I'm interested..it is a country I never considered when planning emigration....

Anybody got any experience of emigrating to Canada?

[sweetpea]

I considered Canada. It's close to stuff (OK--the USA, which has its advantages and disadvantages). It's a progressive place known for its tolerance towards immigrants from all different cultures. Much less racism than the USA or NZ. They allow gay marriage. Not all areas are buried in snow each winter. The Canadian dollar is weak, so your money goes further. It has major cities with tons of cultural opportunities. People are generally very polite. Houses are solidly built.

Cons: It's very close to the US. The places that aren't buried in snow each winter are deluged with rain. :-)

[bob_the_engineer]

Hi,
We also considered Canada but found that professional qualifications are not recognised as readily as in NZ and OZ, and we would have to resit many exams prior to working there. We would also need to be there whilst doing these so that would mean months there without working, eating into our savings.
All in all we thought NZ was the better option.
Bobs wife

[DrPhred]

As someone who lives just SOUTH of Canada, let me bring up the COLD part again. Very, very cold. Frostbite if your skin is exposed cold. Run house to car and car to work cold.

New Zealand, not so much.

[toesonthenose]

Got to agree with DrPhred. Canada is to cold eh. I'm from Detroit, and you could count on snow on the ground 90% of the days Dec 1 through March 1. Sometimes down to -25F without windchill, and as DrPhred can tell you Canada is much colder than that eh. I don't want to spend a querter of my life wishing I were somewhere else. Also 90% of Canadians live within 80miles of the U.S anyway, how great can that be eh. Canada will be lucky if it never wakes up one morning to find the U.S. unilaterally annexed them overnight. Plus if you live in Canada eh, you have to say "eh" at the end of every sentence eh. And then there is the whole "abooot" thing and the national hockey obsession............

[Rob K]

Minnesota, USA is definitely cold, and certainly as you go north from there into the Prairie parts of Canada, it gets even colder. But many parts of Canada are actually quite mild.

The west coast in particular is the mildest part of Canada. The regions of Vancouver and Vancouver Island, as well as the entire coast, are generally snowless year-round. Having lived there and in NZ, I'd say that southwestern British Columbia (BC) - the area mentioned above - is similar in climate to many parts of NZ. Not quite as warm as places like Northland, Auckland and Bay of Plenty, but warmer than places like Otago and Southland.

Lots of microclimates in BC as well as other parts of Canada. Overall, NZ has a more gentle and sunnier climate, but you can find some very comfortable places in Canada.

Because houses are generally so much better constructed in Canada, you will likely be warmer in winter even if you're in the coldest parts.

Other advantages to Canada over NZ:

* Mortgage rates are about half of what they are in NZ, which can make a world of difference if you're not able to buy a house with cash. Property is generally less expensive in Canada, with the exception of a few places like Vancouver where it's probably more pricey than even Auckland.

* If you choose to take a salaried job over entrepreneurship, you can expect on average significantly higher pay in Canada vs NZ. Depends on the profession, but for teaching it's definitely the case.

* You will spend less money to be better heated in Canada than in NZ. Ironic that this is the case when Canada is generally colder. However, houses in NZ - except for maybe a small minority - are appallingly "heated". You can end up paying a lot of $$$ just to heat a small pocket of your house, while the rest of the house is amazingly and uncomfortably cold. It's so bad for so many, that it's common in winter for people to go outside to get warm. That said, it's nothing that an investment in upgrading can't fix. But if you're renting, best to just avoid the "refrigerator" houses.

* Yes, NZ is far from the US, if being as far away from there as possible is a criterion. However, our surprising observation has been that NZ is a heavily "Americanized" country. Just like in Canada, it's not hard to find the same franchises, brand names, etc, etc. And I was amazed to see that most of the high school students I taught were listening to mainly American hip-hop, gangster-rap, etc. If you're looking to get away from the "mainstream", "Americanized", western world, you will likely be very disappointed by NZ. NZ does have some national policies such as No-Nukes and No-GMOs, that Canada has done less to uphold.

* However, don't come here expecting to see a "100% Pure" or "Clean, Green" NZ like the marketing suggests. You will be very disappointed. Canada, by virtue of having so much more land to get through I suppose, has left a lot of it alone. Most clearcuts in Canada are done well out of view of the passing tourist. NZ, on the other hand, is (to a Canadian, at least), a shocking clearcut of massive proportions. Entire mountain ranges have been shaved clean of their native bush and replaced with pasture grass. The amount of soil erosion into rivers due to clearcutting right up to their banks is huge: rivers here run chocolatey brown after any decent-sized rain. Agricultural and even domestic spraying is endemic here in NZ. There's herbicides and pesticides all over the show: on fields, on lawns, even playgrounds. A product called "Roundup", which is notorious to Canadians, is actually referred to here as a "gentle" spray. On the other hand, NZ has proportional representation in parliament, and so such entities as the Green Party actually have a voice in gov't. Not so in Canada: while overall support for the Greens is about the same, the first-past-the-post system has kept voices like theirs shut out of any influence. But what difference that makes is another question, as the other evidence might indicate...

* Based on our experiences here and in Canada, we find NZ to be a much more elitist country. Canada is more geared towards egalitarianism - probably a positive influence from the Americans next door. Here in NZ, we've been surprised, for example, by how "important" it is which high school you went to. One of the main reasons for house prices being so high in NZ cities, is that high schools are "zoned", which then drives up prices in the areas with "highly-reputed" schools. In cities like Christchurch, this mentality is rampant. But even in smaller places like Palmerston North, you'll come across this as well. MAJOR POINT: If you come here without a lot of money, you may find it very hard to get ahead in life. Canada (like its American neighbor) is less class-oriented and your chances of building a livelihood from scratch are generally better.

* Health care is better in Canada - IF you have an employer. Most employers offer benefits that cover most medical, dental, and other care. In NZ, it's generally not the case. I was surprised to learn - both as a high school and university teacher - that benefits are virtually non-existent. Some things are covered by the state in NZ, such as accident care, but some of the free services are rather dodgy, such as free dental care provided through schools for children - which can be good or bad depending on your luck.

* Canada is much closer to the UK than NZ is. If you want to travel home or have family/friends come visit you, you will probably pay around double to go to NZ than Canada. That's probably why immigrants to NZ feel more isolated by their move than immigrants to Canada, on average.

* One last observation. If you want to stay in touch culturally with the UK, then NZ is a much better bet than Canada. In NZ, people eat fish and chips, play and watch rugby and cricket, and kids in school wear uniforms. You won't find any of that in Canada unless you go to a super-private school (though minus the fish and chips). While the Queen still rules in theory, there's almost nothing else British about Canada. The Pakeha community in NZ consists mostly of people with English, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh names and roots. In Canada, you're just as likely to find a "Swokowsi" or "Krawchuk" or "Lisanti" or "Sherstobitoff", than you are a "Smith" or "MacDonald" or "Kelly". Plus, if you go to Quebec, you'll find that the French Canadians actually speak French, while Maoris here might speak Te Reo but almost certainly will speak English. There are huge ethnic populations all over Canada, while NZ can really only claim to have these around Auckland. Probably explains why Canada feels more egalitarian.

Ourselves, we've been here almost a year, and are not sure whether to go back to Canada or stay. But we've learned a lot about the way countries are "marketed", or are misconceived for whatever reasons. Hard to judge how Canada is vs its own marketing, since we've not inquired on our own home country, but what we can say is that NZ turns out to be very different than all of the hype suggests. As I've tried to illustrate above. For what it's worth, we've met heaps of American and Brit immigrants here in NZ, but almost no Canadians. Perhaps that says more about any comparison of countries than anything else...

Cheers,

Rob

PS: Saw the last post, another one about Canada being cold etc etc. Truth is, there's a huge misconception about Canadian weather down south Stateside. Few Americans would know, for example, that Nelson, BC, Canada has normal summer highs of around 35-40 deg C, which makes it hotter than Nelson, NZ. There are numerous other examples. There's an urban myth all over Canada about Americans driving up in mid-summer, oblivious to the 30+ deg C temperatures (or at least stunned by them), with skis on the roof rack, asking for directions to the local ski hill. I believe this to be a myth, but then again I have friends who swear up-and-down that they have witnessed this first-hand...

[K&CS]

Rob - sounds like you're feeling a tad homesick.

We went to Canada for our honeymoon and loved the place (east coast and west, but no time for Nova Scotia etc unfortunately). We never really considered it for emigration though - not sure why, really. There are pros and cons to any country and I don't think anyone really finds anywhere to be the land of milk and honey they imagined!

Kate

[UktoKiwi]

TO ROB K
I would like to congratulate you on an excellent post- informative, intelligent and good observations. I enjoyed reading it.

[PaulandHelen]

I would second that, a very good read, don't know why we didn't really think about canada, but having said that just because you emigrate once doesn't mean you can't do it again!!
P+H

[UktoKiwi]

I personally would have loved Canada- As my favourite pastime is cross country skiing so Banff-Calgary-Edmonton and others could be suitable (although Vancouver perhaps more sensible) but the Mrs could not abide the snow and cold, and for numerous other reasons after long investigations and deliberations with special consideration of Perth in OZ we decided on NZ.

[susanlin]

Thank you all for your replies!

Rob K - what a brilliant posting! Thanks so much for taking the time to write such an interesting and informative reply.

I would love to see Canada. I so want to see the Rockies and all the magnificent scenery I've seen in books and on TV.

Hmm - emigrating there - not too sure it would be for me - too close to America - and I hope that doesn't offend any US forum members! America is one place I would not like to live, although I would love to visit; especially New York and Boston.

[veronica]

dont think it will offend any american forum people, after all they are looking to get out of there too.

[David with a dream]

Great post Rob, really good read. Tell me what would a secondry school teacher with 20 years in the job expect to earn in Canada vs NZ.
Cheers mate.............David

[Miffy]

I've been to Canada a couple of times on holiday, both in the Winter and the Summer. It does get mega cold in the Rockies at winter (Ian got frost bit on his face, when we were snowboarding there one year!), but it does mean you get tons and tons of lovely snowey powder. :nice1
It also gets very hot in the summer up to 30degs and beyond, Winters are long (November - April) Springs short (May) summer okay (june - Aug) and Autumn (Sept & Oct)

I've had Candian friends talk of Americans tourists coming up in the summer with big coats. And stories of children from the 'southern' states thinking all canadians lived in ingloos...

We did consider Canada and even looked (via the web) at places and options. We were looking in the Alberta region.
We would have loved to live and work in Banff or Jasper, but as they are in the national park its very difficult to get houses there and the only industry is the tourism or forestry commission.
We could both get jobs in Calgery but didn't want to live in such a big city (its one of the fastest growing cities in N America). Canmore looked a nice place to live but we would have to comute into Calgery which would be around an hour drive something we didn't want.

Although it is closer to the UK and family it was just a bit to close to America and just a bit too much Americanised for to feel right.

I love the place and if you are flying that way and have an option as a stop over or you could have a stop over there, it is defeniately worth it.

[kiwicurious]

It's always interesting to hear what fellow Canadians have to say about our country.

Health care is better in Canada - IF you have an employer. Most employers offer benefits that cover most medical, dental, and other care.

Don't expect the employer to pay 100% of these benefits. They pay a percentage, you pay a percentage. Some plans cost as little as $8/week for an individual while others for families can cost 50 or more a week.
Paying into these plans is not always optional. They are called group plans and if you are an employee, you pay into the plan. They are worth it for things like adult dental care, glasses and private diagnostic clinics. Wait times for surgery are as bad here as anywhere else.


* One last observation. If you want to stay in touch culturally with the UK, then NZ is a much better bet than Canada. In NZ, people eat fish and chips, play and watch rugby and cricket, and kids in school wear uniforms. You won't find any of that in Canada unless you go to a super-private school (though minus the fish and chips).

Obviously Canada is very big. It all depends which part of Canada you look at. The west was settled more by Germans, Eastern Europeans and Scandinavians while Quebec and eastern Canada by French, English, Irish and Scots.
I have a pub a stone's throw from my house full of expats. They are showing the boro vs. portsmouth game on now. There are plenty of places to get proper fish and chips, steak pies and I can even find bisto gravy granules, walkers crisps, paxo, IRNbru and just about anything expats miss about home, even washing powder. Rugby is a common game, cricket less so, but still played weekly in some parks in the area. Uniforms...depend on the schools. Some public (which means free here vs. private in UK terms) schools have uniforms or dress codes.



While the Queen still rules in theory, there's almost nothing else British about Canada. The Pakeha community in NZ consists mostly of people with English, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh names and roots. In Canada, you're just as likely to find a "Swokowsi" or "Krawchuk" or "Lisanti" or "Sherstobitoff", than you are a "Smith" or "MacDonald" or "Kelly".

Tons of Scotts, Smiths, Jones, Mackays, along with Schultz, Leblanc, and Lopez in my local white pages. Montreal has a huge highland games, vibrant Irish community, St. George's day celebrations, polo, probably even Morris dancers somewhere too.

:uhoh One warning about Quebec: if you consider moving here please be aware that your children will have to go to French public school. If you have the means, you can send them to English private schools.

Deborah
Montreal, Canada
Still considering a move to NZ

[Wooba]

Thanks for that message Rob.. I really enjoyed reading that.. I was quite surprised by what you said about the greeness of NZ.. that was one of the major reasons why I am considering moving to NZ.. although the lousy winters was the #1 reason..

Deborah, You can get instant bisto in almost all the big supermarkets now.. at least in Ontario.. $3.99 for a small tub. I don't have to smuggle it in anymore! :)