[dbonnett]

We are affected by this and I expect a lot of people on the forum will be as well:
My take is that this will make it a lot harder for those without really technical degrees or a firm job offer to get in.:( We are sitting at 125 points and were waiting for one piece of info (my 4 y/o's passport) to submit.. Now we get to reassess what to do..
( this is taken from http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/news/SMCDec05Changes.htm)

The Minister of Immigration today announced changes to the Skilled Migrant Category selection process that will give priority to highly skilled migrants and those with jobs or job offers in New Zealand.
Applicants will continue to submit an Expression of Interest (EOI) for residence and gain points for their skills, qualifications, experience and other indicators of their ability to settle successfully in New Zealand.

Previously, the EOIs were then ranked and applicants meeting the set selection point were invited to apply for residence. Since September 2004, the set selection point has remained at 100.

Under the new selection process, highly talented migrants who score 140 points and above on their EOI for residence will automatically be selected from the pool and invited to apply for residence.

Applicants who score between 100 and 140 points and have a New Zealand job or job offer will be ranked and selected in sufficient numbers to meet the New Zealand Immigration Programme numbers for skilled and business migrants.

If enough places are available, other EOIs may be selected on the basis of specific criteria which the Minister of Immigration will set every six months.

Break in selections

There will be no selection of EOIs from the Pool between 22 December and 31 January 2006. The last selection under the “old” selection mechanism will be on 21 December. The first selection under the “new” selection mechanism will be on 1 February 2006.

Change to period that EOIs remain in the Pool

The period that EOIs remain in the Pool will increase from three months to six months.

Change to work to residence permit period

The period that applicants are granted a work to residence permit has been reduced from two years to six months. A provision has also been included to allow for the grant of a further work permit for a maximum additional period of three months, where the principal applicant has an offer of skilled employment but requires a further work permit to meet the three month requirement. This applies to applications for residence under the SMC received on or after 21 December 2005.

The two-year period still applies to applications received before 21 December 2005.

Some selected EOIs will not be invited to apply for residence

Expressions of Interest selected from the Pool on or before 21 December 2005 that:

on 21 December 2005 have not resulted in an invitation to apply for residence; and
do not include a claim for points for an offer of skilled employment in New Zealand or current skilled employment in New Zealand; and
have a claim of total points of 100 or 105
will not be invited to apply for residence on the basis of that EOI, unless the person expressing interest in that EOI is in New Zealand on 21 December 2005.

People affected may submit a further EOI to the Pool up to and including 21 June 2006. There will be no further fee payable. People who wish to submit an EOI in this manner need to contact the EOI team at eoiteam@dol.govt.nz.

Additional places for skilled migrants with job offers

Due to high demand for places under the SMC, an additional 3000 places will be available over the next two financial years for skilled migrants with offers of skilled employment. A further 1000 places will be made available to skilled migrants, taken from other immigration categories.

The new selection policy takes effect after today’s EOI selection. All EOIs received after this time will be selected on the basis of the new policy.

More information

For full details of the policy, see Amendment Circular No. 2005/12 (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/D0C4394B-582E-42E6-9562-451F5C390DC4/0/AmendmentCircular200512.doc).

See also our questions and answers (http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/general/generalinformation/qanda/ChangestotheSkilledMigrantCategoryQAs.htm).

Our Operational Manual will be updated early in January 2006 to reflect these changes.

[Nienke]

This is from the FAQ:

13. What happens if I have received an invitation to apply for residence and I haven’t submitted my application yet, but I don’t meet the new selection system?
You should continue to submit your application for residence. Your application will be assessed according to the selection system on the basis of which you were invited to apply for residence. For example, if you were invited to apply because you scored 100 points, your application will be still be assessed based on the 100 points selection.


Maybe this is the case for you?

[amit72il]

Change to work to residence permit period

The period that applicants are granted a work to residence permit has been reduced from two years to six months. A provision has also been included to allow for the grant of a further work permit for a maximum additional period of three months, where the principal applicant has an offer of skilled employment but requires a further work permit to meet the three month requirement. This applies to applications for residence under the SMC received on or after 21 December 2005.

Does anyone know what is the work to residence VISA period?

First of all let me clarify the difference between a PERMIT and a VISA:
If you are outside New-Zealand, a VISA lets you enter the country.
Once you arrive to New-Zealand, if all the VISA conditions are fulfilled, you will be issued a PERMIT.

According to the above, the PERMIT is issued for 6 months (instead of 2 years).

Since I am about to apply outside NZ, I will be issued a VISA.
Does anyone know what is the period of the work to residence VISA?
Does anyone know what was the period before today's changes?

[Nienke]

Before the changes of today the visa was granted for a period of 30 months (we just got our wtr last week).

I am now unclear whether we will get a permit for 6 months now when we enter NZ or one for 30 months.

I think the period of the visa remains the same, 30 months.

[willsken]

I'm so sorry for anyone this means bad new for. I have a friend who has been waiting for her qualification to be assessed and she is on 110 points. :no

The way I read it (correct me if I'm wrong) is basically if you have less than 110 points the only way to get in is to get a job offer.

If you have 110 - 140 you MAY get pulled if they have any places left and you meet the criteria (I have looked for what this may be but can't find it and the link on the gov site won't go to it). I suppose this may include thing like is your profession being on the skills shortage list?

I don't see that they will have many applicants with over 140 points without a job offer?

We have had our invitation to apply and I am posting it off after Christmas. I feel very fortunate to be in this position as we also only had 110 points. So once again I am so very sorry for the people affected. All I will say, is you’ve come this far so don’t give up. They may have upped the anti a bit but you can still get there if you really want to. :yes

[Questor]

AFAIK if you have your ITA then you've got past the stage of the process that is changing, the only thing that will change for you is that if you are issued a WTR visa, then you'll only get it for 6 months, with an extra 3 if necessary - If you have yet to submit an EOI, or it has not been selected yet, THAT is where you'll need the extra points or job offer

[StevieD]

That's how I read it as well Questor - all those who have already received the ITA will go ahead as normal, it is only those who have to submit EOI who have to conform to the new points score. It is saddening to think that people have had their hopes dashed but unfortunately, it has been on the cards for a while and there has to be a cut off point somewhere. Commiserations to those who are still struggling on the path.

Steve

[tigerlily]

I think this will feel like the door is being slammed in the face for many folks. It seems to be more of the same story, namely if you are already in NZ or have a job offer you are all set. To those of us still trying to make it, it's a shock. We were just selected in that last draw with 110 points. I hope I'm reading this right, I think we will still be evaluated on all the same old things about our ability to settle. More nail biting ahead...

[foolsgold99]

Tigerlilly,

You're going to be fine, 110 and selected from the pool. you'll get the ITA in due course.

I can't say i'm surprised, the points score has been at 100 for 15 months. The purpose of the immigration system is deliver the highly skilled staff that are going to drive the country forward. Sadly 100pts doesn't demonstrate that. When I started looking at NZ around 2 years ago, the pass mark was 190. Like every other country NZ is competing to attract highly skilled staff in science, maths, engineering and IT.

The immigration system was in danger of failing, people were getting PR without the right skills, the economy isn't as booming as 18 months ago. The goverment needs to act to avoid having a large number of migrants without jobs. It's all about balance

btw, we claimed 140 pts without a job offer, and submitted our ITa around this time last year.

[dbonnett]

Here is our situation: We were trying to get our EIO completed, but got surprised by the need to have a passport for a 4 year old (since you have to give the passport number and dates of issue and expiration). While waiting for a response from NZIS on the need to provide this, the changes came out.

My take is that it creates a situation where those without job offers in NZ are going to find it almost impossible to get in. Given that most job posts specify that you have to be "legally entitled to work in New Zealand" in order to apply, there is a chicken or the egg conundrum. Are the hiring companies going to be willing to step up and offer jobs to overseas applicants (since we won't be there to apply in person?)

Additionally, it is going to put the employers in a position to dictate terms to the overseas candidates (you want to negotiate salary or holiday? Huh!) and it will generate a lot of business for the immigration agencies who can offer to "make certain you meet the criteria for getting selected with fewer than 140 points". This is not the type of message likely to attract the best and brightest that NZ professes to want.

If New Zealand is so tight for skilled migrants, why put such a HUGE bar in the way? I was really excited about submitting an EOI and looking forward to going through the process; now I am reassessing the whole question of moving to NZ. I have killed myself for 4 years to create a successful company here in the US and I looked at going to NZ and joining the society as the next step in my life; instead I have found that we are now in a position of having to grovel to get into NZ (since we have no "New Zealand work experience").

At this point, we are going to visit in 2007 and to talk to companies, but the way I see it now is New Zealand has as much of a job to do selling me on moving there as I have do convincing an employer to hire me.

Can anyone enlighten me on what possessed the government (since this was apparently a Cabinet level decision) to make such a hostile move against skilled immigrants?

[Richard_from_Long Beach]

The shortened period for WTR permits/visas may derail my plan to emigrate to NZ. For those of us with no job offer, who are likely to initially get a WTR instead of PR, six months seems like a short period in which to have to find a job. I would hate to spend the money on the application and moving over there, only to be kicked out if no one will hire me within six months.

This is not a complaint, by the way--I can understand why NZ wouldn't encourage people to move there without a job, even if they meet the skilled migrant criteria otherwise.

Has anyone here applied for PR under the skilled migrant category without a job offer and been given WTR instead? Did you then get a job? What happened? etc.

[Avalon]

Can anyone enlighten me on what possessed the government (since this was apparently a Cabinet level decision) to make such a hostile move against skilled immigrants?

While this may not help in any meaningful way - its worth understanding that this move actually brings the SMC in line with the old GSC that was in place before. Under that - no job = no visa. With a pass mark of 29 (when we started this process) if you were within 5 points of that adn there were absolutely no more applicants who had 29 points - you may have got a Job Search Visa which allowed you to (legally) come to NZ and tout for work.

When we eneterd the SMC when it opened - we were told then with absolutley no apologies from NZIS that without a job offer in NZ we had no hope of being accepted. The points level was never supposed to get as low as 100 to ensure that peoiple had job offers (i never really understood how it would work - it patently couldnt because some people can get 100 points without a job offer but some need the offer to get to 100)

Its also worth remembering that the whole reason the NZ government changed from GMC to SMC was to stop skilled people coming into NZ and not having work (or working as taxi drivers) because if you got a Job serch visa - ANY job would get you the points to get PR. Under SMC, the job you get has to be related to the skills you have.

As it has turned out - they didnt get enough people applying and havent been able to raise the SMC pass mark - which means people ARE able to come to NZ without having skilled jobs. Exactly what the change in system was supposed to prevent.

As i said - not actullay helpful - but it may put things in context a bit.


Dbonnet

Are you able to look at the Long Term Business Visa - its a nightmare in its own right - expensive and v v difficult to get now (my Parents got cought out on that) but it may be worth investigating for you if you have a business that you have worked to build up.

Hugs

[dbonnett]

While this may not help in any meaningful way - its worth understanding that this move actually brings the SMC in line with the old GSC that was in place before. Under that - no job = no visa. With a pass mark of 29 (when we started this process) if you were within 5 points of that adn there were absolutely no more applicants who had 29 points - you may have got a Job Search Visa which allowed you to (legally) come to NZ and tout for work.

Are you able to look at the Long Term Business Visa - its a nightmare in its own right - expensive and v v difficult to get now (my Parents got cought out on that) but it may be worth investigating for you if you have a business that you have worked to build up.

Hugs

Avalon, Thanks for the history: I definitely don't have the long term background to understand what has gone before, we have only been looking at this since November of 2004. My reaction is based on the change since earlier this year, not on the multi-year picture.

Regarding the LTBV: I've considered that, but to make the investment threshold would leave us completely insolvent (and why make a move to NZ to put ourselves in such a place?). It may be an option if the NZD really weakens against the USD and my company continues to grow strongly, but it is a much less attractive path.

The reason I am flummoxed by this change by NZIS is that it seems to run counter to all of the talk about shortages of IT people, the ongoing exodus of youth to Australia and other places and the lowest unemployment rate in the OECD. If all of these are true, why not streamline the process to bring in the right people? If people are coming without jobs, then do something to incent employers to extend offers to overseas (such as US based Expos or de-emphasizing NZ work experience?).

Willsken wrote:

If you have 110 - 140 you MAY get pulled if they have any places left and you meet the criteria (I have looked for what this may be but can't find it and the link on the gov site won't go to it). I suppose this may include thing like is your profession being on the skills shortage list?


This is part of my beef; the new criteria appear to be highly subjective (the Cabinet will determine them every six months, as I recall?) and potentially open to arbitrary decisions.

I've had a bad week dealing with my clients and maybe I just need to let this rest (it doesn't help that I haven't had more than a day or two off since early July) for a month or so to see what is going to shake out. Hopefully by mid 2006, the government will moderate this and make it more doable for those of us who are willing and capable to move there as productive members of the community.

[Danpoll]

There is also a fair bit of flexibility now being placed on the case officer decision making, The Govt is concerned that a pass mark of 100 has allowed too many in who are not capable of finding work, therefore these changes are made to counteract this problem. So if you dont get 140 and a skilled european then dont worry we can make extenuating circumstances decisions. Its more of a read between the lines.

Dan

[foolsgold99]

Sorry if this is going is upset people, but here goes.

The NZIS has a picture of who they really want to grow their economy. This is driven from self interest nothing else.

What they want is

Under 35, perfect english, degree educated with qualifications in areas of critical skill shortage (Engineering, IT, science and health), 8 years exp in that field in a comparable (read, european / american but not india or china.) labour market.

I've just did on online eoi, and put in the info above, without claiming for nz job offer, quals or family, this comes out with 145 pts. through a job offer in and your sorted.

These are the people that every country wants, these are the areas of shortage. It wants to ensure the quality of people entering the country. If you don't fit that profile then it's going to be a lot harder in the next couple of years. for what it's worth I agree with these changes, I think it's been too easy to get in for the last year

[chips]

Sorry if this is going is upset people, but here goes.

The NZIS has a picture of who they really want to grow their economy. This is driven from self interest nothing else.

What they want is

Under 35, perfect english, degree educated with qualifications in areas of critical skill shortage (Engineering, IT, science and health), 8 years exp in that field in a comparable (read, european / american but not india or china.) labour market.

I've just did on online eoi, and put in the info above, without claiming for nz job offer, quals or family, this comes out with 145 pts. through a job offer in and your sorted.


These are the people that every country wants, these are the areas of shortage. It wants to ensure the quality of people entering the country. If you don't fit that profile then it's going to be a lot harder in the next couple of years. for what it's worth I agree with these changes, I think it's been too easy to get in for the last year
I think you are right foolsgold.
You can get a job from the UK, i know it's hard but it can be done. And i know a lot of people in Nz want to see you or for you to have PR, but if you can get here for 2 weeks , employers will fight for you if they want you.

After spending a year of getting everythingin place - jobs ,visa,etc. I admit i was peeved to see people with 100 point and no jobs getting PR quicker than someone with 175 points and a job.
As it stands thing no doubt will change next year.
BUT one thing i have found ,that although NZ need people with skills thay are not desperate for just anyone.
THIS is not to say that all you guy's out there will 100 points and no jobs are not as good as someone with more points. But the old system has been used .
And as usual it's the stright up, honest ,hard workers , wanting a chance to change that pay the price .

Good luck in the process for all , what ever your curcumstances.
Chips

[Tia Maria]

I agree with dbonnet on this one. My OH is in IT and could have got a job before we went. But we decided it would be best to do the job search once out there. This will allow him to get a feel for the area, the company and also what alternatives there are in the job market, (there is only so much you can find out by a quick interview visit, or a telephone interview). We think this will give us a greater chance of settling successfully.

We had already read that salary offers given to those getting jobs from the UK tend to be lower than those offered once in NZ. Not only are you in a stronger position to negotiate but also your PR is not tied to one particular employer, giving you more flexibility if things do not work out.

I understand the benefits for those who do secure jobs before they go, but in our situation flexibility to choose the right employer is important.

I'm glad we got in when we did, and good luck to all those who now have to apply under the new system.

Tia

[T-R3xx]

I discussed this with the OH and we decided that this is not going to deter us in the slightest. While we were there, we met with recruiters and other business-types, and were assured of relatively easy employment. One wanted to interview my wife right then! The only change is that now she will go over first, as she has more points than me and is slightly younger, so to add another 10 points. 50 points for that job!

"Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!"

[leosus]

I agree T-rexx, I doesn't deter me either. While I can understand the frustration dbonnet has over the changes I ask you to examine the quality control factor here. You are an American, where the doors swing wide, and our problems are insurmountable because of it.

I am not snobbish or elitist, but I will say that I consider it a challenge, and I am glad the reigns are tight. Passmark change or no, I am facing having to go there to obtain a job offer reguardless to get enough points on either scale. I fought and fought for a job offer for months but realised it wasn't going to happen, and it was an absolute neccessity for me and my application at 95 points.

Having a job offer, and being there when I submit my EOI for is OK. It's not the way I wanted it, but it certainly makes it a more permanent choice, as in it is harder for me once I get all of my stuff there, pets etc to turn around and go. I don't mind the number change, although if it goes to 190 you may hear me cry too... But then again with getting relevant work experience, and a job offer I will have 190- without a degree.

Living there is a choice I have made for the rest of my life, and I will figure a way to do it, maybe it is how bad you want it???

[willsken]

Living there is a choice I have made for the rest of my life, and I will figure a way to do it, maybe it is how bad you want it???

Yes, you are right. Maybe if the doors in the UK hadn't been open to so many for so long I wouldn't be going to NZ to have a bit of space.

If you want it badly enough you can still have it, you just have to show even more commitment. I will only add that this may put a financial burden on some, that they can't afford.

[amit72il]

Does anyone know what is the work to residence VISA period?

First of all let me clarify the difference between a PERMIT and a VISA:
If you are outside New-Zealand, a VISA lets you enter the country.
Once you arrive to New-Zealand, if all the VISA conditions are fulfilled, you will be issued a PERMIT.

According to the above, the PERMIT is issued for 6 months (instead of 2 years).

Since I am about to apply outside NZ, I will be issued a VISA.
Does anyone know what is the period of the work to residence VISA?
Does anyone know what was the period before today's changes?

Before the changes of today the visa was granted for a period of 30 months (we just got our wtr last week).

I am now unclear whether we will get a permit for 6 months now when we enter NZ or one for 30 months.

I think the period of the visa remains the same, 30 months.

Just wanted to inform you that I asked my question the NZIS (using the "online help"), and the answer I received is that in case a Work To Residency visa is issued, it is for 6 months.
I wanted to clarify whether in these 6 months one should make all the arrangements in his home country, arrive New-Zealand and find a job, and I recevied a positive answer.

I think it means I will not continue with submitting my application.

I have submitted my EOI late May this year, with 125 points and no job offer. Since I live in Israel, I belong to the Bangkok branch, which initiated my ITA on October 2005.

I was due to submit my application by February 2006, and since I have no job offer, most chances I would have received a WTR visa, and planned to arrive New-Zealand sometime early next year (2007), find a job and settle down.

Now, with only 6 months for doing all the arrangements, it seems impossible, and I don't think we'll take the chance for the small odds we might get a PR, and not a WTR visa.

[willsken]

[Quote] Change to work to residence permit period

The period that applicants are granted a work to residence permit has been reduced from two years to six months. A provision has also been included to allow for the grant of a further work permit for a maximum additional period of three months, where the principal applicant has an offer of skilled employment but requires a further work permit to meet the three month requirement. This applies to applications for residence under the SMC received on or after 21 December 2005.

The two-year period still applies to applications received before 21 December 2005. [Quote/]

I am confused. I thought if you had your ITA before 21 December but you had yet to return it, then the old rules applied and if you were offered WTR instead of PR you would still have the 2 years? If this is not the case it will seriously affect our plans. I'm gutted. :(

[doctor]

Hi,
some one aptly said that NZIS rules can change at any second of the day.
I turned in my ITA 6 weeks ago, but still working on it as I have decided to include my step son on it (late inclusion after submission of ITA). Still working on getting permission from my step son's biological father ( initially he said he would sign but now creating trouble). Looking at other posts, it is a kind of implication that from now onwards PR will be granted only if there is a job offer. My points total was 115 without job offer. Does that mean at this time my chances of WTR?
It took lot of work for me to get police certificates from two countries, medical exams etc (sure is the case with everyone). Since I did almost all my paper work, I will continue at this stage and wait for interview. If WTR is granted instead of PR, I would reject it.

[amit72il]

I am confused. I thought if you had your ITA before 21 December but you had yet to return it, then the old rules applied and if you were offered WTR instead of PR you would still have the 2 years? If this is not the case it will seriously affect our plans. I'm gutted. :(
The old rules applies as to anything regarding being selected out of the pool, etc.
However, if your apllication is submitted after 21/12/05, and a WTR will be issued, it will be effective for 6 months only.

[Avalon]

We had already read that salary offers given to those getting jobs from the UK tend to be lower than those offered once in NZ. Not only are you in a stronger position to negotiate but also your PR is not tied to one particular employer, giving you more flexibility if things do not work out.



For anyone faced with this situation (its what happened to us) - dont let it put you off straight away. If you have to take a lower salary to get in (and you are being ripped off because they know you need the offer) - be mercenary. Take the job - do it for the 3 months you have to to satisfy NZIS, then start looking for a better paid job. This went entirely against the grain for us because we felt we "owed" it to the company who had given us teh opportunity we needed. That lasted exactly as long as it took us to find out that they had been dancing on the tables at how cheap they had got my OH, becasue he needed the offer. Interviews for a new job started the week
they emplyed a kiwi at 20k more to be under him.

Once you are in, you can get a feel for what you want to do - you will also be able to get a network of contacts (especially in IT - everyone seems to know everyone else), and you can move on in comfort and in your own time.

Im sure its wouldnt be suitable for everyone to deal with it this way - but its an option worth thinking about.

[tigerlily]

I haven't seen too many people who apply for PR but get offered WTR instead. Seems to be more the exception, based on the cases on this board (read of it once on another board). Am I wrong? Anyone know how they decide between the two (other than how much sense of humor you showed during your interview)?

[jubjub]

I agree with Avalon do the 90 days, our situation wasn't quite the same, we already had Pr, but took a job from the UK, so we were up and running from days one.

recently moved jobs for a lot more money, very easy to do when you're able to pop in for a chat, instead of telephone interviews