[Monzie]

My husband and I are a bit confounded by the requirements needed to qualify as a Skilled Migrant. Perhaps because we're Americans, we're unused to the idea that a person must have a specific degree or certificate to qualify for a particular job. (Living in Wisconsin, I know lots of dairy farmers...but none of them have a "National Certificate in Agriculture, Level 2".)

Maybe the situation is different in the UK, but here in the US it seems that few people actually work in fields that have anything to do with the degree they received at school. In fact, I know lots of successful and gainfully employed people who have no degree qualifications or special certificates at all.

Anyway. Here's a bit about our situation...

I have a BA in English (with a focus in Tech Writing) and I work as a project manager for a printing company. So my qualification and work experience are essentially worthless in the Skilled Migrant category.

My husband is a highly-skilled welder with a trade school certificate, which would easily earn him a bunch of "Long Term Skills Shortage" bonus points...if he was actually still working as a welder. However, after five years of schlepping stainless steel, he decided he didn't want to do "grunt work" for the rest of his life. So he met with management in his company's field service department and convinced them to promote him to an office job. Six years later and now he's an Automation Controls Engineer, programming and commissioning multi-million dollar industrial equipment all over the world. Through hard work, self-discipline, and the ambition to always "be something better," he's trained himself to be a successful software engineer.

But there's the rub, folks.....no degree, no Skilled Migrant points. Even if he convinced someone in NZ to hire him without the degree qualification, we'd only have about 105 points, which seems marginal, at best.

So what do we do? Do we abandon the dream of a new life in NZ? Or do we delay our plans for a few years and until he can earn a degree? (Hmmmm....I wonder how we'd pay the mortgage if he was full-time student? Ha!)

Does anyone have experience submitting an EOI without a degree? Can it be done?

Phooey. Maybe we'll just move to Vancouver instead....

[Al_S]

I am Canadian and I completely agree with your assessment. I manage projects in the US as well as here in Canada and the majority of programmers/analysts on my team (most making over USD 90/hr) come from other backgrounds than comp sci. That is why America is such a prosperous nation ; if you can deliver, no one cares who you are or what you're trained in. God bless America!
Al

[Aydon]

Your BA isn't worthless - it's a tertiary degree that will certainly give you points, no matter that it's not in a required skill level.

Your work experience will give you points as well, again albeit not as many as if it were in a Skilld Shortage area.

Your husbands qualifications and experience will also count towards it - especially as it is in a Skill Shortage area. 5 years experience and education in it will still count (as long as it's recognised), even thought it was given up - you still have the experience and qualification

My wife had 0 points - she doesn;t have a degree - so as long as you are the princiap applicant your degree will count.

[Debbie]

Worth checking out but the fact that your OH no longer works as a welder may not stop him applying as a skilled migrant as one. As long as his qualifications are recognised with NZIS then my understanding is that you can still apply even if you are not currently working in that field. I got PR as a social worker but have not worked for 5 yrs due to maternity. Contact someone far more knowledgable than me and check it out though.
It may be worth trying out variouse options and seeing which gives you the best application.
All the best. Debbie

[Mildred]

Your BA isn't worthless - it's a tertiary degree that will certainly give you points, no matter that it's not in a required skill level.
Debbie

My husband was just under the 100 points required without a job offer, despite having a degree. We were under the impression whilst doing the EOI online that if the degree wasn't relevant to the job than no points could be awarded for it. If we could have gained extra points from the degree then that would have given us enough points to have submitted our EOI before the recent changes took place.

Have we really messed up?

[Monzie]

Thanks for all the responses, you guys! I was afraid my late-night ranting might put a few of you off. (Note to Self: No more big glasses of wine before posting!) I certainly meant no disrespect to the UK-centric way of looking at a person's qualifications. I'm just not sure how to navigate in these unfamiliar waters.

Just a few observations on your answers so far...

Al_S: Yes! I think it's particularly common in IT to find really savvy people who have no formal computer training at all. I mean, there *was* no such thing as an IT degree when I went to college...and I'm only in my mid-30's. And not many working adults have the ability to check out of their real-world responsiblities for several years so they can return to school to get that piece of parchment that the NZ Immigrations people seem to put so much stock in. I can't believe that real-life experience and proven ability count for nothing.

Aydon: I was under the impression that I couldn't even *apply* as a Skilled Migrant if I didn't have qualifications and/or work experience in a skills shortage area.

Debbie: We had thought about claiming that my husband was a welder, but since he's been working in a different field for the past six years, I thought we were prevented from doing that. I definitely need to find someone experienced with the finer points of the EOI process (which is why I'm posting here... :D ) but I'm not sure who to talk to. There seem to be lots of job fairs and groups that meet to discuss this stuff over in the UK. But there's not a huge NZ immigration bandwagon here in the US that I can jump on. If anyone can point me in the direction of a international immigration consultant here in the States that I can contact, please let me know.

frances: "We were under the impression whilst doing the EOI online that if the degree wasn't relevant to the job than no points could be awarded for it." Yep. That's exactly what I've been lead to believe. It seems that you could be the most brilliant IT professional in the world, have 20 years experience in programming, and run your own successful software development firm....but if you only have a degree in English, New Zealand doesn't want you. Maybe I'm wrong. Can anybody speak to this??

Thanks again for all the information and advice. Keep the replies coming!

[Aydon]

A tertiary qualification gives you points REGARDLESS of the area in which you received that degree. It gives you *more* points if the degree is in a Skills Shortage Area, but it is not 0 points in itself.

aS an example, my degree was BA Business Studies, with IT in the 4th year. I claimed it as a Degree in a Skills Shortage Area due to the IT stream. When I had my interview, they reduced the number of points I had as I could not *prove* that the degree was in a Skills Shortage area, but they let me keep the points I would get for a Tertiary Qualification

If you look at he NZIS points indicator, the following is shown:

"
Do you have a recognised basic qualification?
Do you have a recognised post-graduate qualification?
Do you have a recognised NZ qualification (and at least 2 years study in NZ)?

Do you have a qualification in any one of NZ's:
identified future growth areas?
identified clusters?
areas of absolute skills shortage?
"

The first three give you points. Basic is either Tertiary or NZ recognised. Post-Grad is PhD, Masters, et al. The third is NZ study experience.

The second grouping gives you *extra* points if you have a recognized qualification in a Skills Shortage Area.

You can certainly apply for Skilled Migrant, even if you are not in a Skills Shortage area. The skills shortage merely gives you EXTRA points - so you are more likely to meet the points margin if you have those. But you can still hit the points margin WITHOUT them.

[Aydon]

Just tested the points indicator.

If I state that I do not have a tertiary degree then it gives me 25 points.
If I state that I *do* have a tertiary degree then it gives me 75 points
If I state that that degree is in a skills shortage area it gives me 85 points.

So the tertiary degree is worth 50 points, and the degree in an absolute skills shortage area is worth 60 points.

Definitely not worthless :)

I think I had 140 points due to my experience, but they knocked me down to 130 points due to my degree not being an IT degree - which matches what I have found on the points indicator.

[Monzie]

A tertiary qualification gives you points REGARDLESS of the area in which you received that degree. It gives you *more* points if the degree is in a Skills Shortage Area, but it is not 0 points in itself.

Unfortunately, I don't have a job offer or family in NZ. Add to that my measly English degree and questionable work experience (do I work in my field? what exactly *is* my field??) coupled with my husband's lack of formal education and we come up with around 75 points. That's not exactly a number to be confident about...

[Aydon]

Yes, that is a low number of points - but it's not the degree that is bad - the degree gives you 50 points - an extra 10 points for a degree in the Skills Shortage field would still only net you 85 points.

I was lucky in that I have 10 years+ experience in a Skills Shortage field - but your degree is certainly worth the 50 points - even though it's a "measly English Degree" ;)

[Monzie]

I just went back and fiddled with the Points Calculator again. It looks like our best hope would be to claim my husband as a welder. That shakes out to 130 points. Now, whether they'll be willing to accept that he hasn't been done any welding work for the past 6 years, I don't know. But it will probably be easier to explain the situation and take a possible reduction in points for the gap than it will be to argue with an immigration agent that his 6 years of practical work experience in IT should count for something even without the fancy degree.

[Aydon]

Hang on.

He is Principal Applicant. He gains points for his age. He gains points for him being a welder (Doesn;t matter that he doesn;t do it anymore). He ALSO has 6 years experience in a Skills Shortage area (IT). AND *you* have a degree.

If that situation gves you 130 points, then you have 130 points. I don;t know if welding is a skills shortage area - but if it is then you get even more points!

Seems straight forward to me - Work Experience is Work Experience, regardless of how long ago said Experience was, ahem, experienced!

[veronica]

If you are applying outside of Auckland then that should give you another 10 points.

[Aydon]

I thought the outside of Auckland thing was only if you had a job offer outside of Auckland?

[Debbie]

Yep, Im with Aydon on this, If I remember how the agent explained our score to me
I got 50 for my degree not at all related to social work but from a uni that is on the NZIS list. I have a Dip SW that doesn't count for the 50 points as it is only a 2 yr course but does, (or at least did, they have since raised the bar for social work) count as a recognised qualification is an area of shortage so a bonus 10.
I got the usual points for my age and points for 6yrs relevant work experience, (relevant to the area of shortage) gained in comparable market. As I said I had not worked for 4 yrs when we applied. Some of my expereince was unqualifed social work but the agent just put down that it was relevent experience and comparable skill base.
AS long as your qualification is from a uni on the list you should get 50 points relating your degree to an area of shortage gets you the bonus only if it matches the required qualificaton on the skills shortage list.
Some cleaver soul Im sure will be able to post links to the relevant skill shortage list and qualification lists but if not you can access them via the NZ points checker I think.
I also think that you get a bonus 10 points if you have a job offer for work based outside Auckland.
I know, you are thinking "as clear as mud" but it does get a bit easier.
All the best.
Debbie
Monzie It is worth playing around with the different options for a while to make sure you are putting the best person down as the prionciple applicant. It initially looked like my OH would be best as he has 10yr+ experience in IT , he was working and he has a qualification in IT but his quals were not on the list so I was the better applicant.

[Hannah]

have read all of this with interest and some confusion, as i was under the impression that if you apply WITH a job offer then your qualification must be linked to that job offer. Ie. if you get a job as a welder but you have a degree in sheep shearing then the qualification (or the job offer) points do not count. If you applied without job offer then i thought you got points for your qualification no matter what it was in. My partner recently applied for a work permit and had to show his work experience was relevant to the job he was applying for (he had no quals relevant to the job he applied for so work experience was even more of an issue).
Can someone clear this one up if possible? I'm currently looking for a job in NZ that matches my qualifications and experience - does this mean instead i can ignore my MSc in Public health and become a sheep shearer after all :-)

hannah (confused)

[Mildred]

If the above is correct we would have had enough points for our EOI prior to the change. I didn't think my husband's history degree could be included as he was looking to do gas fitting.

Well I'm gutted!

[Mildred]

Just checked the ops manual (Chapter 87) which says that only 50 points are awarded for recognised basic qualifications (e.g. trade qualification, diploma, bachelors degree, bachelors degree with Honours).

As we have already accounted for the 50 points with my husband's trade qualifications, his degree wouldn't have added to the points.

Feel a bit better about this now!!!

[Debbie]

So sorry Frances if you were caused upset. You are right you can only claim the 50 points once. I tried that one, I ended up with 2 of the recognised ualifications but sadly still only got the 50 points.
Hope it works out for you.
Debbie

[Mildred]

Debbie

No upset caused at all - I was just annoyed at myself as I thought I had missed an opportunity to gain the missing 5 points needed to apply without a job offer!