[Hannah]

As some of you will know, we came here for 6 mths looking for work, trying it out etc. and are planning to apply for residence while here. We came very open-minded about whether or not we emigrate and, if we do choose to stay in NZ, at least one of us needs to go home and sort things out (e.g. renting house, shipping stuff over). My son is 10 and I didn't realise how close he was to his mates in England. He's fitted into school fine, made friends, joined various local sports clubs, all without any fuss at all. He is struggling a bit for friends over the summer hols so this isn't helping. But, since coming here, he has been adamant he wouldn't want to live here. His reasoning is that while he thinks NZ is a nicer, cleaner place with more things to do, he has got really good mates in England and he can't wait to see them again. My daughter doesn't care (she's 7) and says she would happily live anywhere as long as her house has stairs (!!!?) - our rental house doesn't!

We've discussed how friendships change over your life etc. and talked in a very balanced way about what we are giving up/gaining etc. etc. but he is, after all, just 10 and as far as he's concerned his mates now will be his mates for ever. I didn't realise how strongly he felt until we mentioned extending our stay the other day (as we now have 1 yr work permits) and he just looked at me like i'd suggested he jump into bed with a starving tiger! He went white and said "no way, we're going home in April".

We always agreed when we came that we weren't going to force anyone to come here who was dead against it. And maybe coming here with this six month timescale was not a good idea as he's not settled because of that, but we had no choice. Without a job we had just 95 points, and we had no guarantees that we would find work in that six months, or that we would stay even if we did. Saying 'right kids, we're off for good' because we may well have ended up saying 'we're going home' after a few months.

Maybe i could have handled this better, but i feel in the circumstances we did the best we could. We have tried to re-create as much of a normal life since being here (schooling, friends over, joining clubs etc) and we have talked to the children positively about NZ and had discussions like 'if we stayed here, this woud be the secondary school you would go to' etc. Meanwhile, having found work etc. we have started on this roller coaster of starting to fill in an EOI and everything that follows. I feel if we open this door we have to go through it as the direction becomes almost mapped out for us (come to NZ - get job -get work permit - get PR - ship goods - move here permanently). That's fine, but my son has stopped at the first door and refuses to go through.

Has anyone else faced this. Did you move in spite of it? Did things work out? Are 10 year olds normally like this or is it just my one!!!! My gut feeling is for all of us to go home but i know if we do this (ie. give up jobs etc.) then coming back is not an option, both money wise and immigration policy wise. Also, the expense of applying for PR when we may just end up going home for good is a gamble. We're going to use this weekend to take stock again and rethink what we are doing, but any of your thoughts before then would be welcome.

Thanks...

[dawn]

Oh wow, my gut feeling on reading your post was if the rest of the family is happy, he should stay, after all, the parents should call the shots, not the other way around.

I'm sure that once he starts school and makes a few more friends, he will realise that it's not all bad and that your conversation about friendships actually does make sense. Maybe you should talk to him again once he's made a few friends.

Don't beat yourself up about it, you are doing your best. You sound as if you're happy, apart from this. It would be a shame to give up on your dream. I'm glad in my case, that both my boys can't wait to go. I hope it all works out for you.

[Paul and Linda]

Channa, come round for a barbie, I'll get Linda to give you a call (I'm at work at the mo) sounds like you have a biggie to think through and maybe just talking to someone else could help clarify things.

Paul

[Hannah-NL]

HI other Hannah, maybe it's in our names, but this week when I checked the kids if they were sound asleep before I went to bed, my oldest who is 15 woke up and said "I do no longer want to do it."
When I asked "What" He said: "What you are doing." I asked "What are we doing? " He said: "Well going over there"... !!!
I was flabbergasted, but covered him up again and said we would talk about it the next day. So the next evening when his little brother of 11 was in bed we talked.
From that talk we found out there were two reasons: One, he does not want to miss out on friends he has here (and the nice girlfriend he suddenly seems to have "We're just friends mom") but after a bit of talking about it "We have been planning this for 2 years now, it's not all of a sudden, so you know it all ahead and have never complained" etc etc..
He then said: "In school they keep nagging me, about when we are leaving" Seems there are some kids around that keep asking, one in particular asks every time he passes him in the school hallways... A bit of a teaser that one...
Anyway we said WE don't know when we will leave either, but it will be some time in the beginning of this year. There's people all around us asking us the same question all the time, and as long as we don't hear from London we can't say a sensible thing about it".
I think in the end, he just wants to feel the certainty from we are going on that date, not "somewhere in the beginning of this year"
Kids want to know things for sure, our youngest (11) has totally accepted that we're going, and was the first one to start packing stuff and throwing out the old stuff.
Oldest now realizes he will miss his friends, but and that might perhaps be the case with your 10 year old too, it's the holidays over there, he misses his friends, and he does not have that kind of friends like that YET(!)
But they will come.... What I told and tell my kids is that every time in your life you go to a new school, sometimes even to the next class, there will be other kids, other friends, such is life, so where ever you go, if you have friends here, you will have them over there as well! Right? And then they look at me, and move on with what they were doing.
I think it maybe take some more talks, but in the end if you decide to go back and he goes back to the same school , the same class, what if he skips a class, he will have new classmates, if you get another house, he will get new friends there too. His friends might even move and he would never see them again. All possibilities he should know about and that you can talk about with him. Maybe there's some activities you can do with him, or that he can do with other kids in the holidays so that he will meet some more new friends? Not that he will get over it that easily maybe, but ten years is very young and they make friends so easily!
Well I've been typing a lot compared to what I normally answer, but I think this long story might help you a bit as we had sort of the same thing happen in the same week. Take care!

[kiwidebs]

Hi Hannah

My parents moved us from Blenheim to Auckland when I was 10 - and I hated it at the time. But I very quickly settled and am definately not scarred by the experience. I did suggest we moved back (we had moved for two years and at the end of the two years I demanded we move back - my parents quite rightly made the decision they felt was right for the family and that was to stay where they felt the best opportunities were for us). I feel that your son's feelings have to be considered but at the end of the day you are the parents and you can see with adult eyes more clearly what will benefit you all.
I don't envy you having to make that decision and am glad we're moving while our two are so young (4 and 2). Let us know how you get on.

Debs

[wanderingoregonian]

Oh my - what a tough one! I don't have any advice per se, but your son sounds just like my brother

"but he is, after all, just 10 and as far as he's concerned his mates now will be his mates for ever."

who at 24 still is best friends with all his mates from pre-school. Granted all his mates have traveled A LOT these past years (from Spain to Kazakhstan). He's just really loyal. I don't think he has once lost a friend, even some my mom and I wouldn't have wished had a bit more distance from us:) Next time I speak with my brother, I think I'm going to ask him about what he would have thought about moving when he was 10... It could be a personality thing as much as an age thing. And I agree with your daughter, stairs are a must (silly as I work in the field of disability and I really like accessible places, but stairs are just so good for sitting on, curling up to read on, and of course running up and down).

wishing you the best of lucks juggling all your dreams!

[gil]

Hannah,
Thank you for this post, it's a helpful flag for what might be coming our way (of our 4, Will is 10 in March...).
It sounds as if you are handling this really well; calm, open discussions and so on. It strikes me that whilst your son has some good friends in England and feels the bonds of those, he hasn't yet been able to rationalise the friendship-making process (no surprise at 10!!), so the timeframes to build friendships like he has in UK simply haven't happened yet.
I know time is one of the hardest concepts for developing minds to grasp (remember when "next week" meant nothing, or the same as "in a minute"?), but the longer he's there enjoying his new life, the stronger those friendships will become. At ten, a year is 10% of all the time you've ever lived, so it seems a HUGE period. (Sad to say, I'm at the Billy Connolly stage of "Should auld acquaintance be forgot...happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you...jingle bells" well there goes another year!!)
I agree with Dawn too, about the parents should call the shots, not the other way around. as I have recently spoken to two families who didn't make their moves because of a 12 year-old and a fourteen year-old respectively and both now have huge regrest and "what might have beens".
Whatever you decide to do will be the right thing for the family as a whole, I'm sure, so take your time and keep talking to each other about it.

Hugs and good wishes,

Gil
x

[Biddy]

Ours are young enough to have adapted v quickly. We've only been here 3 months but there's no way I could drag our kids (girl 7, boys 6 & 4) away now.
We always involved them in the move and they helped (sort of) to make decisions and have ownership of the whole thing.

We agreed before we moved that we would have a family sit down after we'd been here 2 years and discuss the pros and cons.

I would hate to have done this with teenagers!

At the end of the day I wouldn't allow a 10 year old to dictate the movements of the rest of the family esp after 6 months.
I reckon in another 6 months his tune will have changed and he'll be begging you to stay.

Biddy's law: 'The older the kid the longer the period of adjustment'

[Smiler]

Hannah

Forgive me I don't want to cause offence but do you think it is because John is insistent on going back whatever, that James cannot see further than this and has allowed himself to think this all along and not fully let himself become integrated and let go from the side of the pool. He maybe doesn't want to see saw through this part of his life?

Maybe he fears that if he makes friends etc here he will have to say goodbye again and feels he can't handle that.

I do agree though with the others, you are the parents and your decision goes. But it would be nice to have him onboard without forcing him.

Have just read your pm, will reply.

D x x x

[femke]

Hi Hannah,

Know exactly how your feeling, we have a 14yr daughter, she was 13 when we moved here, she really did not want to move and leave all her friends behind.
After lots of conversations, listing all the plus against minus, we decided (right or wrong?) to go for it, she was just never going to agree with us, and as Dawn said we are the adults what does a 13yr old know. :( Well it has not been easy, there has been many times when i asked myself what have we done, so many tears, we never imagined how hard it would be for her.(
Now after 1yr i can safely say she is much more settled, :yes she has found a new hobby, horseriding she never even looked at a horse back home, but now she is at the stables most days, helping out.
I think the summer hols don't help, too much time on their hands, once your son goes to school and meets new friends, it all changes, it will take a while, and maybe as in our case some tears and tantrums, hopefully it will be worth it in the end :laugh
When we first arrived and for a good 6months after, my daughter would be on msn messenger every day without fail to her friends back home, now she really doesn't have time, too busy with other things. :yes
Good luck on your decision, not a easy one to make.
Moira

[foolsgold99]

[quote]he has got really good mates in England and he can't wait to see them again[\quote]

The sad thing is his mates in England will have moved on, and pretty much forgotten about him. Kids are like that i'm pretty sure they're not mopping about missing him. When I was about 12, a local kid I was really friendly with, left to move away. missed him for about a week, and then got on with things

Life moves on and you fill the gaps left when people leave. People don't leave gaps in their lifes for you. It's sometimes hard for the people who have left to understand this, for kids it's nearly impossible.

Going back would be a major disapointment for him, you've got to stay if you think it's for the best for your family.

You can never stand in the same river twice, there is always different water flowing around you.

[GeorgeM]

If you think that being in NZ is best for the family then you should go for it. As much as we need to be aware of and empathise with the feelings and emotions of junior people, we shouldn't allow the world to revolve around them.

As a result of your greater experience of life you know that he will probably soon get over it, will make new friends and in a couple of years will think very little of his old friends in the UK. If your son, because of his relative immaturity finds that hard to believe then this is a case for sensitivity, compassion and understanding on your part but not a reason for you changing your plans. Parents ARE allowed to know what's best for their children, you know, even if this concept is unpopular with the more PC parts of society.

My OH and 2 girls are currently in the UK on holiday (I went out later and came back earlier). We've been here for 3 and a bit years, and on several occasions when we were visiting people in England I overheard the girls saying to their old UK friends things such as 'Back home we have X' or 'Back home we do Y'. Yes, they're enjoying visits to their old haunts, and catching up with a few old friends but when it came down to it it was very few that they could be bothered to get in touch with. Yet 3 years ago they would both have given you a list as long as your arm of people they would just have to vist when going 'back home' to the UK.

Too late to change it now, but I would guess that the very short 6 month timescale that you quoted for your original adventure has not helped - after 6 months our kiwi girls could easily have gone back to the UK and slotted back in as if they had never been away.

[StevieD]

Poor you!

We thought it would only be teenagers who would give trouble.
In saying that when we got PR we were all jumping about and Lou (7) burst into tears and said she would miss family and friends. Kieran (10) cant wait to surf, play rugby etc etc. We are preparing ourselves that when we come across Lou will take it in her stride as she has thought about it, but Kieran will get the shock and start missing everyone.

Maybe when school really starts he will soon make new friends and the friends back home will become a shadow.

Thanks for sharing this with us, especially us guys coming over, knowing what to expect.
Give it a little more time, sure he'll be fine.

[Going2NZ]

I don't know if this helps but here it goes: I am what is known in the US as an "Army brat" which basically means that my family (mom, dad and 4 kids) moved on average every two years. My dad did 2 tours in Thailand with us in tow in addition to many places in the US. Anyhow, while it wasn't always easy being a really shy kid, it was an incredible opportunity to live in another country that I'm glad my parents were able to give me. As others have said (truly not meant to discount his feelings) what does a 10 year old know? I probably wouldn't have had the guts to move to NZ if I hadn't learned such an incredible lesson at the same age as your son. An, ultimately, don't we all want to give our children a better life than we've had?

And, another thought, maybe if you no longer treated it as a temporary visit he would follow your lead. Good luck!

[gil]

Hannah-NL,
A strange coincidence that your son reacted this way this week! I felt a lot of empathy with what he/you are going through, as my 14 year-old is in a very similar mode. Almost every time she starts to talk about the move to NZ, I find myself getting cross and raising my voice to her, mainly because she STILL asks "Is it definite? Are we really going to go?" to which the answer is "Yes!" every time and always has been. Our PR was granted in November, so we are just waiting on our house sale to be able to go, so it amazes me that she is still trying to check if we are serious.
She asked last night whether anyone on the forum had children of her age, as she sees a lot about younger kids here. I said of course, but couldn't bring myself to mention that most of the teenagers I've read about find it harder than the younger ones. I know she just can't see beyond her immediate feelings at the moment and feel certain she will really be happy in NZ, it's just the daily "Are we really going?" combined with her feeling the lack of a set date like your son, (and like the rest of us too). It isn't easy when you don't know and can't give specific info to anyone!
Anyway, I will try to stcik to my own advice about open communication: sometimes I don't need to answer her question, just give her a hug and say "I know" to reassure her I've heard her and that I care how she feels, but that she understands that her feelings alone are not the basis on which we make family decisions.

Bit of a ramble, but I hope everything works out for your family Hannah.
Take care,
Gil
x

[Mildred]

Hannah

My son is 11 and went up to Grammar School in September. Tell your son that he would have made completely new friends when he went up to senior school in the UK. My son still keeps in touch with a lot of his friends from Junior School, but this tends to be by e-mail - something that can be done from anywhere in the world.

Perhaps you can also remind him that in a few years he will have the choice of going back to the UK on his own.

Good luck

[driver]

All of the above affects us too.
We have a 14 yr old who can't wait, and 12yr twins one whose happy to go but would be just as happy to stay, she realises we have thought a lot about what we are doing but can't really understand why, as she doesn't see all the same things that we do. This is her life she wasn't here 40yrs ago when it seemed nicer.
The other 12yr old just hates every aspect of the move. He really beats himself up about it. It has been a worry for me for about 3yrs. I thought by now he would have come round to the idea but i was wrong. He calls it "The place".
There is nothing we can say do or show him which makes him want to go. He cried all day in 2004 when we went to Gisborne and took him to school for a day to see how it was. The other two were fine.
He is absolutely coming back as soon as he is 18.
This is a hard thing to discuss as I'm not sure where to start. We have promised him a puppy when we arrive in NZ which is kind of helping, but the tears still came at xmas dinner when all the family were talking about our new life.
I have tried the sympathetic approach, hugs and talks on his own in his room. Trying to explain our reasons and what he can look forward to.
I have got very angry and said well we are going and you are coming and that's that. Neither made much difference.
I have decided to take one day at a time and hope i notice if its getting bad for him and all I can do is be there and ready. Both Dad and me have agreed to keep an eye on him and help him through. In reality it will probably turn out that he loves it and we all want to come home!

Thanks for all the posts though it is really helping me knowing that others are out there in the same boat.

[gil]

Driver,
Thank you so much for your post, it really struck a chord with me. I sometimes feel as if I'm the wicked witch of the west forcing Imogen to leave her life here against her will. It does help to remember what she was like approx. 3 years ago when we moved six miles up the road. She sobbed and sobbed, didn't want to move, said it would ruin her life etc etc. And now, for her, this is the best place in the world that she doesn't want to leave. She refuses to recognise that the principle is the same, although the destination is further away.
I think you're so right about taking it day by day, it's all you can do.
My friend emigrated to the Bay of Plenty about 6 years back, when her boys were 14 and 13. They were not hugely keen, but settled so quickly and so completely, she couldn't believe it! Both are at Uni in NZ now. Inogen is convinced she's coming back to UK at 18 for uni and if that's what she still wants by then, then of course she can. Not sure she will though!

It's great to hear from those "army brats" and similar who moved at a tender age and loved either it or the learning they gained, or both, that's so encouraging for me.
Thanks everyone who's contributed to this thread and to Hannah for starting it, there's a lot of us out here going through similar things and STILL thinking it's only us!

I hope everything works out for everyone,
Gil
x

[Debbie]

Thank you so much for your post, it really struck a chord with me. I sometimes feel as if I'm the wicked witch of the west forcing Imogen to leave her life here against her will. It does help to remember what she was like approx. 3 years ago when we moved six miles up the road. She sobbed and sobbed, didn't want to move, said it would ruin her life etc etc. And now, for her, this is the best place in the world that she doesn't want to leave.
x
Thanks Gil,
Reminds me I must phone my mum tonight and apologise for being such an awful child.
My Dad was NAvy so we only had to move every 2nd posting, (no point moving if he's at sea). 1st time I was 8 and my mum tells me I made her cry for over a week. Told her I hated her, ruined my life the works. Guess what?, at 16 I was still a horrid child and and told my parents they could move where they liked I was only going to live with until I had enough money to leave home or was old enough for uni.
I did leave home at 18 for uni but didn't return to our previouse area and I came home to great parents and a house I still call home most weekends.
Im so glad that my kids are young enough that we can choose not to be open and honest with them. The biggest things in childrens lives are love and security, (a sence of what will be and when and how). Unfortunatly life and immgration and house selling don't allow for the latter. Im 34 and I find the lack of security and a plan difficult so I realy do feel for your son.
I agree with almost everything writen above, your son's friendships are very important and need to be considered, as I know you are, but all the other plus and minus points need considering to.
What you cant give in security at this time I know you more than make up in love. Prehapes worth leaving it for a while with him untill you are clear what you are doing as a family and raising it again.
Big hugs to you and your son.
Debbie

[willsken]

I think most things have been said, except that, as long as he thought that it would be for 6 months he hasn't allowed himself to settle or attempt to see the place as home.

No matter how unhappy he seems now, you are making the move for all the right reasons FOR your family as a PARENT. That’s what we are parents for. To protect, love and make the hard decisions for them. He will come round once he knows that whatever he says won't affect the out come. He will also settle down a lot quicker once he realises the move is permanent.

I know this feels harsh on your son and I dread it that one of my boys may hate it, but I won’t come back on their say so if the rest of the family are happy.

Very very good luck and I hope it all improves for you soon.

[StevieD]

Teenagers = hormones = trouble!!
But for the younger ones too, it is a huge upheaval. My little 10 year old is showing maturity beyond his years over the move, but we suspect that when the time comes, he will feel it just as hard as anyone else. He had to go through a similar thing last summer when one of his best mates from school moved to Ireland. All the usual promises of keeping in touch, visits etc. were traded. Result? One letter and one failed reply from his mate, because he is busy getting on with his new life and we continue to get on with ours. The emotions surrounding any move are huge, and doing what you have, explaing rationally, is all you can do. He will come round, you know it will.
Even Gil's raised voice syndrome is down to the stress of the situation, and I suspect that we all go through it at some time.

Good luck!

Steve

[GeorgeM]

A number of people have mentioned their kids intending to 'come back' as soon as they are 18.

When we moved over our oldest child was 13 (13th birthday on the plane coming over!) and we thought that this was our last chance - we wanted to give her long enough to settle down as a non-adult so that she had some roots in NZ which would at least tempt her back here every once in a while even if she did go off to UK/EU/US to work/study.

This has appeared to work - she now has many more roots in NZ than we do. As a youngster she has acquired a huge network of friends with whom she is growing up and sharing really important experiences. She enters the sixth form when the schools go back, and she is at the stage of discussing with her friends where they will go to university. Top of the list is Otago with Auckland behind that. Three years ago her view was that she would go back to the UK to 'be with her friends'.

The hardest thing of being a parent, at least from my point of view, has been seeing my children desperately unhappy, especially when I can either do nothing about it or more importantly when I can but know that to do something about it would be the wrong thing in the long run. (All those "It'll hurt me more than it'll hurt you" moments in my childhood may have been genuine after all :laugh ). To everyone whose youngsters are 'creating' about you ruining their lives - remember that their life experience is very very limited, and often they can see no further than the end of their street. In the long run you are not being kind by scrapping plans you have on this basis, although it is natural for you to beat yourself up over the short-term pain you are causing for your children.

[mechidna]

Ah yes, the "you ruined my life" scenario. I still get that after six months. But it is becoming less frequent now. I think the latest event is because my mother is visiting for a month. She's managed to show her old videos of softball games and friends. Gee mum, thanks! She's settling, but it didn't help that we arrived half way through the school year, *after* the cliques had formed. I'm hoping a new school and new group of kids will change this for her. And of course, there's all the sports at school. She's gone from playing softball, volleyball and soccer to watching Coro and Shortland. Ugh!

I'm glad I didn't give into the tears. I asked her about coming to NZ before I started my research. She nixed Scotland, Ireland and Japan. She okayed Hawaii and NZ. I liked NZ better (non US domain) and began my research. SHe was actively researching with me for a while. She must have thought it was a joke.

We are here now. I have bought her two out of the three bribes (no where to put a horse) and the tears are definately less frequent, especially when cute boys text her.

Hang in there.

Oh yeah, she plans on returning to the states for college...

[Carol]

I fhtere is one thing Ican say about being here for the last 9 years it is that we are all in it together. THe boys were 7 ad 4 when we came and as such are now incredibly close. They rarely have a wrong word - normal stuff but no majors.

I know of other families who brought teenagers and yes it WAS hard for them.
Interestingly enough though - a few of them have moved to Australia and the kids adjusted much more easily when they were a wee bit older. Probably because they had "been there done it - it wasnt such a scary thing" mentality.

I think you will find - if you DO go back - that yes - his friends will have moved on.
How often have they been in touch?

[veronica]

None of us can really stay in one place because of friends whatever age, harsh as it may seem. Everybodies life moves on.
The biggest thing with a child of 10 is that in the UK he will be starting secondary school at 11 and everything changes, maybe he will not even in the same school/class as his friends. If his friends lives have stayed the same they won't be missing him.
I agree that as the 'grown ups' you just have to make the decision that you want and be totally straightforward with him about it. Sometimes life is tough.

[woo]

Hi Hannah
Im a new member an iv just been scanning around and found your story, Iv worked with children for a long time in various settings, out of school projects, schools and youth clubs and yes ,10 year olds do this and your wee boy is quite normal!!!
This is such an emotional time for all you guys, and he has it in his head he is going home.I think your doing the right thing by talking it through with all the family, and keeping him mega busy.
we have a 12 year old and a teenage daughter they have no idea that we are moving yet , although a have kinda dropped hints here and there! ;)
My son had said " I dont want to move from my home, ever!" so thats a good start. I replied " but Cam home is where we are" so no matter where you are in the world you allways have each other to guide you through the rough.
Keep your family near Hannah and it will all work out for you all.
hope he settles soon. :nice1

[ruthyroo]

Absolutely nothing useful to add here - but gosh you are making me very very glad we made this move before having kids! My DH is a secondary teacher, surrounded by 12-18 year olds all day and he often says that they are the most conservative, narrow-minded (as in can't see past their immediate circle of friends / environs) and risk-averse beings. Children and young people like security, and I guess that the older they are, the less comfort they get just from being with mum and dad - unlike wee kids who can be pretty much happy wherever the family is, if mum and dad are happy. Yet of people I have met in life, the ones that travelled or lived abroad as children are often some of the most confident, grounded individuals. I really hope to give that to our kids when we eventually get round to having them - just the realisation that the world is a big interesting place. It might comfort you to know that we have met loads of people here in NZ who have travelled long term with their families - it's not considered weird to take off to a Pacific Island to spend a couple of years working and take the family along. We even met one woman who gave birth to her third child on Niue, at the local hospital, while her husband was teaching on the island! I guess NZ is so far from everywhere that it makes sense to go long term as the usual two weeks away is out of reach for most people - especially if it means going to Oz or the PI. Anyway, I agree with the posts that it has to be the parents call. good luck with the tantrums / tears though!

[Hannah]

Hi Folks.

Thanks for your posts - some common sense in the overwhelm i've been feeling over past few days. I haven't been able to try the 'but your friends don't keep in touch now' or 'you won't see them at high school' - he has 3 mates and all of them ring him weekly, they email most days and they are sending letters (and toys!!!) through the post. My son, naturally, thinks they are so cool and the best mates ever!!!! They are all moving to secondary school together too so he won't lose contact there either.

I wouldn't abandon plans to move here purely on my son's feelings, and i doubt any parent would, but it's just one of the things you consider in the melting pot of pros and cons that are inevitable and essential in emigration discussions. There is a saying that 'children say what everyone else is thinking' and i suspect James is reflecting our inner worries and concerns that we try so hard to keep from him (but, as i'm sure you all remember from your childhood days, you KNEW when things weren't right and mum and dad were hiding something!). Deborah, in the short time you met John you sussed him right!

I appreciate that many here will have simply made a decision to leave their home country and just turn up in NZ and make it work. My partner is even more of a thinker than me and he can talk himself out of anything. In all honesty it's a miracle he's here. When i met him he told me 'I don't do holidays' as he'd never been on one! His new job is crap (in his words) and the interview for mine is delayed yet another month. His work contract gives him no holiday in the first year and he doubts he will be given a day off to go and see our son swim in a national level competition! Naturally he's going on about his 6 weeks holiday (plus all those bank holidays) in his English job and the wonderful flexible working policy they had.

We're spending too much and earning too little, and all we can see is a potential 'way out' sign in a few months that offers us the security of everything we once knew (our old house, old jobs, old mates etc.). Believe me, we have tried so hard to just get on with it and simply live here - our kids are at school, in clubs, have friends round, etc. We've met wonderful friends here and we make the effort to meet up with them often, go out with them etc. And we've been here just 2 1/2 months. My children ARE happy and i wouldn't say my son is pining or not getting on with it...but as far as he's concerned he's off home in a few months.

I agree that coming here for 6 months on a 'temporary' trip is part of the problem, but we couldn't apply for PR before we left like so many others - we needed a job but didn't know we'd find one (and i, who would be best placed as principal applicant, still haven't found one!). However, we're considering staying longer (and last night my son surprised us by saying out of the blue 'actually i wouldn't mind staying a bit longer, like about 2 months').

I think though that our reasons for coming were different from many people on this forum. We liked England, we liked our jobs, liked our house and the area we lived in. We just wanted to try something different - the 'life is too short' syndrome. And maybe that is just it - we didn't come to get a job to get residence, we came to get a job to try a different life and have a break from routine and MAYBE apply for residence. We like it here, and i think we are just struggling with giving up the comfort zone we had, the predictability that was part of our old lives, and the simple ease of being 'back home'. It's easy in that state of mind to think of all the reasons why going home is a good idea - not just my son's friends, but everything else. Surely i'm not alone in going through this!? And yet in the midst of so many 'NZ is fantastic' posts i think sometimes it's just me! There were several responses to my initial post that assume emigrating here would naturally be the best thing for our family and that by choosing to come here I would be acting in my son's best interests, and i think that's the bit i've got to pick apart and sort out in my own mind. Is it the best thing, and why? And yet would i emigrate here if i didn't have children? Due to the work situation I think probably not.

I think what i'm trying to say, particularly to those still in England, it's not easy. There are ups and downs, and just as you think you've got it all sewn up and sorted, another issue - practical and emotional - comes along and surprises you. The inevitability of parenthood perhaps. Every day something comes along and hits me out of the blue, and then again we have to sit down and sort it out. For me alone, this would be an easy choice - just get on a plane and live for today. When you are making this decision as part of a family there are so many things to consider - what will be our children's opportunities when they are teenagers/adults/etc. What is secondary/tertiary education like? etc etc. It's endless, but they are decisions that responsible parents have to make. I do believe though that happy parents have happy children, wherever you live. We as parents need to be happy with our choices first.

More thinking needed me thinks! Thanks for all of your posts...you've all given me some more to think about (like i need any more thought fodder!!!). Our trip here has been a tough one - but i still don't regret a single moment of it!

[Smiler]

Channah

I've read and re read your post and I don't envy you any of this at all.

But homing in on what James has said, would it be so bad if you stretched your stay another 2 or 3 months. Could you do this financially etc? I'm betting at the end of this time he may be over the worst.

James is feeling the insecurity too and sees the Uk as secure and safe. Would this change if you were successful with the job. Things would be more concrete, something to build on. I hope so.

I forget but does John have to stay with this employer?

This is not as eloquent as your post and I'm just thinking on cyberpaper for you.
((((((with bug hugs)))))

I told G what hannah said about the glockenspiel, he said she'll go far!

D x

[Al_S]

Very interesting thread.. Do not claim to have a crystal ball, but have this "gut" feeling, you and your family are going back to England. All the best with whatever decision you make.

[gil]

Hannah,
What an interesting, articulate post. Thank you. Posts like yours are so helpful to those of us about to follow.
You will do what's right for all of you, I know, so I wish you all the best , whatever you decide,
Lots of love,
Gil
x

[kiwidebs]

Hannah, good luck with making your decisions, I don't envy you. It is one of the reasons we said we had to make the move before the children started school. And like you, we're not running away from the UK, we have a nice life here, good friends, good jobs - we're running towards something that we hope will be better for our children (esp the chance to live close to family which we can't do here in the UK).
Whatever you decide, you can always say you gave it a good go. Your children will learn so many lessons from this. Things about living your dreams, things about how other people live, things about it being a wonderful world full of opportunity. Isn't it great the way you can teach your kids such amazing lessons just by living.

Good luck, let us know what you decide.
Debs

[Avalon]

Hannah,

{{{{HUGS}}}}

I dont envy the decisions you have to make one bit, and I have no advise to offer - I dont have kids of any age, and while my family is involved in this - at the end of the day they are all adults and are responsible for thier own decisions.

I do just want to say though that you are not alone in having actually been happy with your life in the UK. It does make a difference in your ability to settle, im sure. Many of the struggles we have faced have been because of this very thing. There have been many times when ive wanted to get on a plane and just get back to familiar life, food, surroundings etc. Its got better since we have moved out here and bought. i feel more settled (and this area is very similar to where I lived in the UK -so its a bit more familiar). For us certainly - time really has improved this and dulled the need to bolt for "home". I hope that the same happens for you.

At 2 1/2 months into our life here - i was in just as much turmoil as to whether i wanted to stay - and thats with just 2 of us!

I hope the best for you - whther its here or in the UK. Just remember - you are not alone, and by far not the first to find this difficult: many of us do.

[Hannah]

Thank you Gil, KiwiDebs, Avalon, Deborah and others!

These have all been such helpful posts and I would like to thank you all for your time and thoughts!

hannah

[NannyOgg]

Hi Hannah,

Me here from Whitstabl;e again. My sister emmigrated 18 years ago with two children aged 11 & 13. Neither wanted to go, both said they wanted to come home. Both have visited the UK independently of their folks when they got older. Worked a while in the UK and then went back to NZ. Both are now married to Kiwi's and have Kiwi babies of their own. At ten you really cannot choose the course for your whole family to follow. Maybe six months is just not long enough for him to settle. If he seems happy in NZ give him a while longer to adjust. Let me know how it goes.

Nanny