[foolsgold99]

I see threads from time to time on here and hear people talk about "rip off new zealand" and how people are out to milk them for money.

Personally I just don't see it, I guess it's all due to expectations, if people expect things to cost "X" and cost is "X" + 30% they claim rip off. I tend to think poor research and planning

I think that costs in NZ are upfront and honest, rather than being hidden in other places, for example bank charges. We pay about $10 - $15 a month is bank charges, do people think it's free for the banks, to process all these transactions ?? In the UK for example you wouldn't pay a transaction fee, does that make NZ a rip off ? No, a look at UK bank profits shows their getting their money, but they make it in different less transparent ways. Like offering 0.1% interest on a current account, in NZ a current account will pay a decent rate.

In the almost year I've spent here, I have yet to find a case where I've been ripped off because I'm a pom. My opinion is that costs in NZ are very transparent and upfront, and are at the point of use.

What do the rest of you think ??

[chips]

I think people feel ripped off as many of them see New Zealand as a "cheap " place to be. The perception of the land of milk and honey has gone. As have the $3- £1 days.
And it looks like business is screwed for a while , and the predictions are that the recession is going to be worse than 91.
The good news for you is that you might get more $-£. Great ,but there will be fewer jobs in industry and IT me thinks (MO)
As for banks ,you get used to it, eh.
Chips

[JCM]

Don't Pay Bank Fees
I have a cheque account with Kiwibank. Provided the balance is above $4,000 there are no fees. It pays 4 to 6.9% interest depending on how much money's in the account. http://www.kiwibank.co.nz/products/front_runner.stm

You can open an account from overseas http://www.kiwibank.co.nz/products/migrant_banking_open_acc.stm

[Leccy-Lee]

I not yet able to comment on NZ (as not there yet!) But i cant actually see how it could ever be worse than "rip-off" britian can it?

[foolsgold99]

In terms of bank fees, we pay nearly nothing, we have an asb current account, a kiwi bank mortgage and a supabank savings account.

We have about 4 transactions a month, we pay our mortgage, we pay the credit card, we transfer to savings, we get some cash. All transactions are done on the credit card. This saves fees.

But that wasn't really my point, I guess it was more about a mindset of people feeling they're being ripped off. Some people seem to get indignant about paying for things differently than they are used to. My gut feel is that people who get indignant or angry about this kind of thing, aren't going to last in NZ, but the same would apply in France / US / Mars, some people aren't mentally cut out for being away from home. This is not a critisim, just an observation.

The land of milk and honey thing is funny, I first looked at NZ about 7 years back, and people told me that I could earn $25K a year in NZ and be well off. Depending on bonus I'll make between $85 - $100k, and on a single salary in a modest house in Auckland suburbs, with a wife and kid, we're in no way rich or well off.

NZ ain't that cheap, when you are earning NZD, if you can bring a lot of cash over with you, you'll be fine otherwise it's going to be hard. But that would be the same anywhere.

If you are still living in the UK, here's a simple question. "could you afford to buy the house you live in now ? Assuming you had no deposit, just on your salary could you get a mortgage to cover todays market value of your house ??"

[Avalon]

What do the rest of you think ??

Yes and no :)

Some things just dont justify the prices imho - but then the same can said anywhere I guess. I find it odd that its often cheaper to ship books in from amazon.co.uk for example than to go to whitcoulls (who by virtue of bulk shipping MUST be able to get books shipped here a lot cheaper than me as an individual - surely).

Things like petrol still seem really chaep to me - but we arent exactly earning a "normal" kiwi wage. I do feel that for most people - these costs must be prohibitive (but then that doesnt stop people driving gazillion litre 4WDs :D )

Bank Charges - have to utterly dissagree on that one Im afraid. The Uk banks may only give 0.1% on current accounts if that -BUT - you still end up with about 1p extra a month. Here - they may give you 4%+ - but they nick it back off you and then some in charges. If you are prepared to keep reasonable large sums in the bank (and why would I want to keep $4k in a current account at 4% when it can sit in a savings account at 7%?) you dont pay - but they have 4K of your money that the can use for whatever they want. Offering you those kind of interest rates and no fees just isnt enough for you lending then your money. Before we have the mortgage - not once did I mananage to earn anywhere near enough interets to even cover the fees - and believe me we were pretty good at fee-reduction.

I also utterly object to being charged to spend MY money. I dont care what they charge or why the do it. Its NOT THIER MONEY. Its MINE! That is just a principle thing - and at the end of the day no amount of justification for charges actually diminishes my feeling on that.

I tend to think poor research and planning

Id have to say - probably - and i think this is where we fell down. Although we are coping pretty well - I did get a shock - despite having been here twice before. Despite all the prep work we did - I had a feeling that we would probably have missed something - and it would be big. Turned out it was the cost of living. Coupled i think with the realisation that we really didnt want to have to cutail our standard of living "too" much.

I think people feel ripped off as many of them see New Zealand as a "cheap " place to be. The perception of the land of milk and honey has gone. As have the $3- £1 days.

Hopefully - this perception will be dulling a little thanks to boards like this. We felt that in hindsight - the information giving at Expo's was shall we say "massaged" to present NZ as exactly that- cheap. NZ stats cost of living figures are not even funny! And the problem with the 3-1 is that many goods are still priced at that - if not 4-1 or more - while the actual rate just doesnt justify it (you wont notice if you get into the rather good habit of NOt converting everything - it will drive you mad!) Having this problem with flights at the moment. It would cost £750 in the UK, but £1000 from here. From what I can see its because the 1-3 rate is being applied for the NZ price. Thats $625 difference - which is a LOT of money here.

When I actually sit down and look back on how much we ahve spent on things in the last year - it really is a mixed bunch of whether we feel we are paying more than we would have done in the UK, or less. There are many things we wont pay for here because we dont feel the price is justified by what you are getting. Gym membership is a good example. in other cases - ive found things Seem expensive - but then when I work it out - its actually rather cheap - food would be a good example. Cheap night at the cinema, decent wines.

So all in all - mixed feelings :confused:

[mossum]

nat west charges us £10 a month to have an advantage gold account

not to mention the fees we get slammed with when we fall into our overdraft :mad:

I thought the bank fees wer'nt too bad - just my pov .

I also think its important to stop comparing country to country - things cost whatever they do - where ever you live - you have to get into the living vs holidaying mindset in my opinion .

vic

[Avalon]

But that wasn't really my point, I guess it was more about a mindset of people feeling they're being ripped off. Some people seem to get indignant about paying for things differently than they are used to. My gut feel is that people who get indignant or angry about this kind of thing, aren't going to last in NZ, but the same would apply in France / US / Mars, some people aren't mentally cut out for being away from home. This is not a critisim, just an observation.

Well - im not really - but then If i was - there would be no challenge would there???? :D

Whats better - to only emigrate if you know you are a "traveller" and used to different cultures - totally open minded (?) about all other cultures and ways of life and not have a care in the world about the new homeland - OR- do it anyway - despite not being comfortable with these things. Get angry and P'd off - and deal with it - learn from it and come out the other side.

I wonder if its exactly the people who "arent cut out" for it that get the most out of it.

Trust me - you CAN last in new zealand and not like everything that goes on here - I know many peopel that are doing it and have done for years. Ive managed 1 year so far. It may have been easier if I wasnt so annoyed about things - but hey - If i wanted an easy life Id have stayed in Ross on Wye! :nice1

[JCM]

why would I want to keep $4k in a current account at 4% when it can sit in a savings account at 7%?

4% interest, on $4,000, taxed at 33%, is $107.20

7% interest, on $4,000, taxed at 33%, is $187.40

If your bank fees are more than $80 each year ($6.66 per month) you'd be better off keeping $4,000 in your current account. ;)

[Diny]

I don't think NZ is a 'rip off' country, it's not a charity, NZ banks & industry etc have to charge - everybody is out there to make money - including ourselves (isn't that why we have jobs?).

On the other hand, some 'products' in NZ are a stupid price compared to 'home'. For instance paint, how they justify the extortionate prices they charge I will never know. Having done abit of DIY and home decor of late I can report that I long for the UK prices. But on the other hand, I'm delighted with the cost of insurance over here, petrol is alot cheaper too than the UK. In fact there's a whole bunch of things which are more expensive and a whole bunch of things that are cheaper. Also a whole bunch of things which are just about the same. Swings and roundabouts.

As a final thought though, I can't see how thinking NZ can sometimes rip you off will lead to not lasting or succeeding here.

Diny

[foolsgold99]

find myself agreeing with a lot of what avalon has said.

Get angry and P'd off - and deal with it - learn from it and come out the other side.

I fully agree, I guess the point I was making is some people can't deal with, or let go. I feel sorry for them, it must be really hard, when in rome and all that is my motto.

A couple of things I disgree with though

Having this problem with flights at the moment. It would cost £750 in the UK, but £1000 from here. From what I can see its because the 1-3 rate is being applied for the NZ price. Thats $625 difference - which is a LOT of money here.

Not sure that's accurate (it might be i haven't done the sums), but there is no 3-1 rate being applied, the airline industry doesn't work in pounds, and prices aren't converted from sterling to other currencies.

The global aviation industry (i used to work for a major us aerospace firm btw), work in us dollars, everywhere in the world. If you want to get the relevant price difference between locations, convert both prices into US dollars at current exchange rates, and then compare the difference, this gives the true picture. It may just be the pound is strong against the US dollar. This is because the vast majority of an airlines operating expenses are in USD, planes & aviation fuel are sold in USD everywhere in the world. I'd actually be very interested to see the results for that btw.


I also utterly object to being charged to spend MY money. I dont care what they charge or why the do it. Its NOT THIER MONEY. Its MINE! That is just a principle thing - and at the end of the day no amount of justification for charges actually diminishes my feeling on that.

If I ran a bank, I'd say fine, But I store your money, distribute it to almost every location in the country on demand, and I've setup a complex electronic payment system, with vast investment in IT equipment and staff to set it up and keep it running. If you expect me to do all that for free, then keep your money under your bed in a shoebox and don't bother me.

you pay extra to have a pizza delivered, why should you expect your money to be delivered and processed for free ??

In the UK, the vendor pays the transaction fee instead.

[GeorgeM]

... If you expect me to do all that for free, then keep your money under your bed in a shoebox and don't bother me.

I was just about to make this point, but you've done it for me. So often people seem to view businesses as charities. Willing seller/willing buyer - if you think that a product is overpriced then find another vendor who offers a better deal or don't use the product. Many people seem happy to spend (comparatively) loads of dosh on unncessary junk whilst moaning about a fairly minimal charge for what is often a decent service just because they think that they've gotten that particular service cheaper/FOC elsewhere (we pay $15 to the National Bank for our banking which I don't think is that bad.).

In the UK, the vendor pays the transaction fee instead. Which is in turn passed on, invisibly to the buyer, but what the eye doesn't see...

In terms of Rip-off NZ I can honestly say that the only time I've felt ripped off here was when we first got here and we employed someone to do some odd jobs for us. I could have done as well myself (which is a stunning indictment of the chap's ability). Not wishing to be racist, but he was a Brit...

[Avalon]

4% interest, on $4,000, taxed at 33%, is $107.20

7% interest, on $4,000, taxed at 33%, is $187.40

If your bank fees are more than $80 each year ($6.66 per month) you'd be better off keeping $4,000 in your current account. ;)

Ahh - cheers for that. It really can take a while for financial stuff to filter through my brain :) I get there in the end though!

[Avalon]

find myself agreeing with a lot of what avalon has said.

YIkes - thats scary! :D

Re flights - Id actually worked it out from Singapore dollars (we are talking singapore air). The price in $sd is exactly the same whether you book from the UK or NZ - but when it converts to local curency theres a difference. I hope that makes sence. It took me a fair while to get my head round it as I really stryggle with exchange rates. I had converted both to £ - but Ill try it in $us and see what it gives me - thanks.

With regard to the banks - and any other buisness - well - you will never find me expecting any buisness to run on charity (lets face it - im not exactly the raging leftie here ;) ). But the banks already make a lot of money out of me. With lending and mortgages they charge me interest. Which is a lot more interest than they get charged by me for lending them money. Thats the profit. Why do they need to charge me twice???? Either im lending them money - which they then invest at currently 9.55% while giving me 4-7%, or they are lening me money at a rate of 9.55% while only paying the 4-7% for it. The difference makes the profit. But they also want to charge me $10 a month for the privaledge of allowing them to make a profit.

There was a really great ad running which put it really well - do you get charged a fee in a shop when you have bought goods. What was it - $12.50 for a few chicken breasts, plus $1.50 for paying by card and a $10 monthly charge for being allowed to shop at the butchers in the first place. Thats ON TOP of any profit that the butcher is charging for the chicken breasts - because I guess its safe to assume they didnt cost him $12.50.

I find it odd that in NZ many people accept bank charges and the insitance that you keep minimum balances as if its a great thing.

One of the things that annoys me most is that this charging penalises poorer people - and there are a lot of them here. I can negotiate my way out of charges because I have enough money to do so. Those less well off, who by defination cant afford them as well as I perhaps can - have no choice to do that.

I also dont see that the banking system here is worth what they charge for it. But - and Ive said this before- I did bank with First Direct ("probably" the best bank in the world :) ) in the UK, and that does seem to make a difference on how people view banks in general.

So - I am most certainly NOT anti profit ;) Not by a long shot! Just dont like the banks - too much reading Martin Lewis and his Money Saving Expert website im afraid.

[David with a dream]

Nice post and intresting reading. When in NZ I had to buy a car (2nd hand 10 year old job, but it got us about and we liked it) the sales man was really helpful. Let us have the loan of a car until ours was ready to collect and gave us a bottle of wine as a thank you for buying a car from him. Now now on returning to the UK we again had to buy a car (2nd had but newer and a lot more money) the sales guy would'nt even give me any car mats for it. Yip I know business is business but I know who I would rather be ripped off by.
As for bank charges well shop around in the UK and you may get 2% on your account. But again business is business and having banked in NZ for a while and banked in the UK for ever I would say that really all banks want is your cash, be it up front or by other means.
David

[Leccy-Lee]

everybody is out there to make money - including ourselves (isn't that why we have jobs?).


Well i am not disagreeing but thought id add this piece of advice my dad brought me up to belive:

"You work to live, NOT live to work" :D

[Wannaway]

I don' think I would say NZ has a "rip off" culture, but my experience is that it seems many things have a price and there can be lots of hidden charges. Converting UK driving licence to NZ licence has two, or even three, level of charges. I banked a cheque from our landlords, being refund of overpaid rent, I pay the bank a (admittedly small) fee for the pleasure. I pay the bank when they issue a cheque book to me. I paid $4 fee for drawing oney out of an ATM that is not affiliated to my bank. My bus ticket went up from $81 to $99 in one go. Its things like that that take some getting used to, particularly when you are living on a budget. I sometimes think that money is so tight for many people that people have to make a buck where they can to keep body and soul together and that can sometimes manifest itself in what I would consider to be petty fees, charges, duties etc.

The flip side is that I have experienced little generosities that you just don't get in the UK. For example, on holiday we bought my son an ice cream and he dropped it whilst I was paying. The woman gave him another one and would not accept me paying for it - !! Frequently bus drivers don't charge my 6 year old for bus fare, but they should. The lady at the deli bar in our Supermarket gave my son a cooked sausage to munch on whilst I was pushing him around in the trolley, again for no charge. So I guess there can be really petty, but frustrating, costs that bite you on the backside but there are also little generosities which maybe don't get noticed as much - even here in big, bad Auckland!

[Jaideco]

This thread has been a bit enlightening to me...

I certainly don't expect to travel to NZ and live like a king for pennies, I have always assumed that the general cost of essentials (food, accomodation, services etc) would be favourable compared to the UK. If this is not the case I would really like to know because this was an important factor in my decision to take a job. The logic was basically that even though my income in £ is going to remain roughly the same, if my expenses were reduced, the savings would effectively translate into higher salary that would make it worthwhile. Is this just hopelessly naive?

Although I had heard about the bank charges I am not so worried about that because my plan has always been to send my money back to the UK home ahead of me so I will continue to use my UK credit cards for the majority of transactions. Apart from the obvious (getting whacked by a large exchange fee that I will have to pay sooner or later anyway) can you see any problems with this plan?

[Avalon]

jaideco-

Not sure I understand what you mean - but are you going to literally earn money here in NZ and then send it home each month?

Sorry if im being a bit dense ;)

[foolsgold99]

ok, I've done the maths on the flight prices.

I've look at ANZ, and based it on a return flight from LHR to AKL, one person cheap seats, out on the 4th, back on the 16th of June. Then I did the same dates, AKL to LHR. This is not en exact science, as flight prices depend on demand in each direction, but it should be close enough this far out.

Doing the return from auckland first, it's priced at NZD2459, which works out at 1,711USD. Of which 292USD is tax.

Flying from London on the same day, I get a price of 798 GBP, which works out at 1412USD, of which 212 USD is tax. This a big difference. It seems to cost over 230USD more to do the same flight starting here

[Avalon]

Yay! See - im not going bonkers! (well - not today anyway :laugh )

[GeorgeM]

I don' think I would say NZ has a "rip off" culture, but my experience is that it seems many things have a price and there can be lots of hidden charges. Converting UK driving licence to NZ licence has two, or even three, level of charges.
I can only recall the single charge when I did my scratch card test - I forget what it was now. What were the other two charges that you got hit with?
I pay the bank when they issue a cheque book to me.
This is stamp duty which goes to the government, I believe. A few may be old enough to remember when this also applied to UK cheques....
I paid $4 fee for drawing oney out of an ATM that is not affiliated to my bank.
Wow! I hit the roof if I see an 'Other banks ATM' charge on our joint bank account, and this is only 50 cents!! Did you use one that was provided by a private company rather than a bank? These are often put into petrol stations, malls etc 'as a service' as as such cost a fee to cover costs plus profit. Suchlike do exist in the UK, I believe, and are to be avoided whenever possible. Best choice when in need of cash is to buy something for a dollar in a supermarket and get cashback.
My bus ticket went up from $81 to $99 in one go.
Unfortunately this could well be the result of non-Rip off NZ! Tax on petrol and diesel is far less here than in the UK and hence the percentage of the total fuel cost which relates to the actual product is much much higher. With oil prices going through the roof fuel costs have increased by a much higher PERCENTAGE in NZ than in the UK although the overall cost still remains much lower. As this is a major part of the cost of operating for bus companies the increase has to be covered somehow.

If you really want to talk about rip-offs, think 3% stamp duty when you sell a house in the UK, plus the government taking a hefty whack in inheritance tax when you die and your estate is realised. You can pay the stamp duty on tens of thousands of NZ cheques with the money saved from not having to pay stamp duty on the sale of medium priced UK house...

[Hannah]

Fruit and veg prices amaze me (particularly as i eat a lot of it). Melons, which are grown here, are twice the price of English melons when you convert the price. I know it's not helpful always to convert NZ$ to GB£ but when you consider 1. the melons are grown here and imported into England (subject to import tax etc) and 2. salary is lower in NZ meaning that you can buy less melons per weekly wage in the first place, it leaves me wondering...

I often stand in the fruit aisle scratching my head wondering why strawberries and tomatoes cost $5 for a small punnet despite being in season and being grown in this region. My food shopping per week has been around $250 for a family of 4. Converted (which i still do as we are'nt being paid kiwi dollars yet so i'm using my English savings still!!!!) is £100 - £20 a week more than i paid in Uk and my shopping habits are the same.

I'm not saying this is a 'rip off', merely pointing out that in my opinion food costs more compared directly to the UK and even more if placed in the context of a kiwi salary, ie. a larger proportion of our outgoings per week are spent on food. Yet eating out is cheap and always helped by endless vouchers through our mail box each week. Big pizzas from Dominoes at the moment are $6.95 (about £2.50) and usually $9 - not a healthy way to eat long term of course. At the moment it is cheaper to buy a Dominoes pizza than to buy a supermarket equivalent and cook it yourself!

Of course other things are cheaper - houses, days out, parking tickets ($12/£5), rates/water (50% what we paid in UK), Tv licence ($0), Car tax ($100/£40), insurance, meals out, MOT/WOF, some electrical goods, etc. etc. This will offset the other higher costs like medical bills/insurance, food shopping, second hand furniture and cars, etc. Whether this constitutes a 'rip off' in terms of individual economy in the long term, or whether 'standard of living' is less/more for someone doing the same job/hours in NZ compared to UK I can't say as i haven't been here long enough to tell. In the short time we have been here we have found that our costs are generally around the same as they were in the UK but my partner's salary has dropped markedly. But then we have gained things that we can't put a financial value on (and lost things too, which again don't come with a price tag). Only time will tell whether the things we gain adequately offset the things we lose (financially and otherwise) and we need more time to make that decision.

All in all i don't think NZ is a 'rip off' - it charges different prices for different things, largely due to the constraints of it's own economic and domestic policies. Melons may cost more because melon farming is not subsidized here or something where as Britain can import cheaply from poorer countries! How often have we moaned in Britain that we should not close our local meat pie/shoe/coal/steel/car factory and buy cheaper products from abroad because this will put local people out of work etc...and yet when it comes down to it we don't want to pay more for our meat pie when we get to the supermarket!

Hannah

[JCM]

Hannah I have read that part of the reason for the UK's decreasing food prices for things like tomatoes and melons is an army of illegal African immigrants working in Spain for slave labour wages much lower than NZ's minimum wage.

I would say that small fruit and veg outlets here are competitive. At the weekend I was at Growers Direct in Christchurch where I bought.

Large Vine Tomatoes $2.49 per kg.
One bag of about 20 red and yellow peppers $4
2 good sized water melons $6
1kg of plums $2.99
1 kg of nectarines $3.99

They were all delicious.

When I've noticed them the strawberries have been $2.49 per punnet.

I drove past the same shop yesterday and their sign said they had eggs at $2.99 for a tray of 30 small eggs.

Ask around. Someone in your area should be able to let you know about the small grocers that sell their produce at well below supermarket prices. :nice1

[foolsgold99]

Fruit and veg prices amaze me (particularly as i eat a lot of it). Melons, which are grown here, are twice the price of English melons when you convert the price. I know it's not helpful always to convert NZ$ to GB£ but when you consider 1. the melons are grown here and imported into England (subject to import tax etc) and 2. salary is lower in NZ meaning that you can buy less melons per weekly wage in the first place, it leaves me wondering...

I often stand in the fruit aisle scratching my head wondering why strawberries and tomatoes cost $5 for a small punnet despite being in season and being grown in this region. My food shopping per week has been around $250 for a family of 4. Converted (which i still do as we are'nt being paid kiwi dollars yet so i'm using my English savings still!!!!) is £100 - £20 a week more than i paid in Uk and my shopping habits are the same.

I think I can answer these questions, your mistake is clear. You seem to be buying fruit & Veg in the supermarket. now this is quick and easy, but supermarkets on average charge 2 to 3 times what you'll pay elsewhere for fruit and veg. You should get them from a specalist shop, or a road side stall, you'll see them as you drive about. quality is way better too.

I understand the same is true for meat

[Carol]

They were all delicious.



I have never yet bought fruit and veggies from a market that came close to the quality in the supermarket.
I reckon it's false economy.


Plus you have to get there at some ungodly hour and lug them around in plastic bags that cut into your hands! I'll pay the extra in Woolies thanks.

[JCM]

Carol, I think you must be thinking about a different kind of of shopping from me.

The fruit and vegetables are top quality. I'm a very choosy buyer and I have no interest in second grade fruit.

Also, fruit and veg outlets in Christchurch have trolleys and baskets, just like supermarkets. Their opening hours are around 8am to 6pm, no ungodly hours.

Christchurch can't be unique. Surely Wellington must have grocers that sell as good or better quality produce than the supermarkets?

[clg]

There is a fruit and veg shop next to Woolworths in Crofton Downs that has excellent quality, we buy everything there they are better than woolworths quality wise. Prices are on average a lower by a little unless something is on sale in woolworths. We go for the quality not the price.

The sunday market by Te Papa had excellent quality and dirt cheap prices for items grown around wellington.

[Carol]

I guess working full time as a teacher (max hours!!) with a family of 3 kids - my "browse" time is limited.
I need to get stuff as quickly as possible.
Sad but true. I even have shopping lists ready on the internet to drop in my trolley and just buy. Takes me 10 mins max.



THe markets I've been to are the Saturday morning one in Porirua and all the market garden shops in Otaki....far too expensive and time consuming to drive up there each week though.


That market in Porirua - it sells the most amazing "heart attack on a paper plate" ........thing.........
I have no idea what it is - it's like a deep fried dumpling thing - that they slice in half and smother with butter and golden syrup..
They are to die for.....literally!
:D

[Diny]

I have never yet bought fruit and veggies from a market that came close to the quality in the supermarket.
I reckon it's false economy.


.


I agree !!! They may be cheaper but the quality is nowhere near as good as supermarket goods - it certainly IS false economy Carol.

Diny

[JCM]

I agree !!! They may be cheaper but the quality is nowhere near as good as supermarket goods - it certainly IS false economy Carol.


Diny, there certainly are fruit and veg shops selling produce with equal or better quality than supermarkets. They are also often cheaper. Although you personally haven't found any, it doesn't mean they don't exist and doesn't mean that people who have found them are buying poor quality produce and making false economies. ;)

[Smiler]

Can see a little business op for home delivery fruit and veggies here............

[Avalon]

I guess working full time as a teacher (max hours!!) with a family of 3 kids - my "browse" time is limited.
I need to get stuff as quickly as possible.
Sad but true. I even have shopping lists ready on the internet to drop in my trolley and just buy. Takes me 10 mins max.


I can sympathise with that - id hate to see what the size of my food bill would be if I didnt have the time to shop around. Shopping day for me involves 2 supermarkets, moore wilsons, a butchers, and a veg shop on the state highway. Its an awful lot of hard work!

[Moorf]

Funny you should mention that Smiler, was looking into it just recently after a comment on another board... there was an outfit doing it where we lived in Scotland although it was positioned as an organic solution (probably to compete with Tesco's great rural delivery coverage!). They did amazing veggie boxes and you had a weekly delivery and weekly "menu". We also had fish and dairy vans that came to the village weekly...

I reckon an enterprising farmer out there could easily start up an online ordering service for Veggie Boxes... or even just fresh herbs...overnight delivery to outlying areas etc etc.

With regards to supermarkets vs markets, some near neighbours sell veggies from their house (just an A-board on the main road with a Drive In sign sort of operation). They insist their veggies are better than the supermarkets because they have to be, otherwise they don't get repeat business, and they are fresher. However.... at the larger roadside vendors I must admit I haven't found the quality (or at least consistent quality) that I would have expected from small market vendors.... perhaps I hit a bad patch, I don't know, just my experience to date. I find Funky Pumpkin brilliant - not sure if they are nationwide though.

[kiwidebs]

there was an outfit doing it where we lived in Scotland although it was positioned as an organic solution (probably to compete with Tesco's great rural delivery coverage!). They did amazing veggie boxes and you had a weekly delivery and weekly "menu".

There's a couple of companies doing this here in London too - I think it's great. All organic, in season, locally grown stuff. Healthy and green :D . If it worked in NZ I'd certainly be interested (in buying the goods not setting up the company).

I am looking forward to the opportunity to checking things out myself - once I finally get there.

Debs

[Diny]

Although you personally haven't found any, it doesn't mean they don't exist and doesn't mean that people who have found them are buying poor quality produce and making false economies. ;)


I never said they were, I simply said that 'IN MY HUMBLE OPINION' that I don't find the quality as good as in the larger stores. Obviously my local F&V stalls aren't as good as yours. Driving around the country trying to find cheaper better F&V kind of defeats the object a little don't you think.

Certainly wasn't casting any aspersions - sorry if you thought I was.

Diny

[Nienke]

Pfff, this thread has got me worried again (again....seem to be flipping from confidence to worry and back on an hourly basis nowadays) as to our financial situation in NZ. Although my husband has the same income as he had here in Holland, I will give up working. Want to make the lifestyle change also for my son of 2,5 years and have one parent home with him instead the stressy life we have now.
Ah well, I'll cross that bridge when I get there (flip....back to confidence!) :D

[Jaideco]

Not sure I understand what you mean - but are you going to literally earn money here in NZ and then send it home each month?



Yikes,
This thread has been busy overnight...

Avalon, in answer to your question on the second page, yes. That is exactly what I was planning to do. I am not planning on staying in NZ permanently and if there is a risk that the exchange is going to move in the wrong direction I would like to get my currency back into £s as soon as possible. Besides, I am maintaining a house over here and would like to have the pounds to deal with any eventualities that the rent doesn't cover.

[Cardiff Irons]

If you are still living in the UK, here's a simple question. "could you afford to buy the house you live in now ? Assuming you had no deposit, just on your salary could you get a mortgage to cover todays market value of your house ??"Gulp! :eek: That's a great question although I'm not sure I'm too keen on the answer!

[StevieD]

But what about the hidden cost of that nirvana of shopping, supermarkets? I know Diny will agree here, but they have a lot to answer for in the way that they drive the price down to the lowest possible leaving farmers on the breadline (I know we all know farmers have this reputation about having no money etc.) And for what? The fruit and vegetables have to conform to the most stringent of tests and parameters about WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, not quality. Things such as shape and colour for goodness sake!
People are lulled into thinking that they are getting a bargain, yet how can I get a bargain at tesco for instance, paying 62p for a cucumber, when I can get the same cucumber at the local grocers for 32p? Rip off - I think so! Same plastic wrapper, different name on the label. So it is all about perceptions. And we are all lulled into the notion that supermarkets are cheap. Cheap fuel? That was another one I pointed out to Jan last week. Went to fuel up, Tesco again, coz it's cheaper right? Wrong, 1p dearer than Shell garage. I put the nozzle back in the pump and drove to my local Shell garage. So in all, I suppose it is the same in NZ in just about every other capitalist place on the planet, you win some and you lose some.
Good thread this though :)

[Hannah]

Yep, i'm with Carol on that one. We have a couple of vege market things here in New Plymouth and they are marginally cheaper but the stuff has to go in the bin shortly after buying it. If you are in to leaning over huge crates half filled with apples (and sometimes flies and maggots), with a short preliminary prayer that you don't fall into the large crate and embarrass yourself, while you sort the good from the bad then go for it. But you then get home and find the bruises, caused from chucking 20,000 applies in a wooden crate, come out over the next couple of days. Have to admit, i've only shopped in 2 vege marts in New Zealand, both in New Plymouth (not the most competitively priced supplier of goods in the country) and both times i've spent far too long searching for good fruit and veg to justify the few dollars saved. Also, like Carol, I don't want to spend too much time in my life shopping...particularly as i'm the one that has to do all the food shopping week after week after week....and washing everyone's smalls, cleaning, blah blah blah. A woman's life is so hard, blah blah....

[Bubbles]

particularly as i'm the one that has to do all the food shopping week after week after week....and washing everyone's smalls, cleaning, blah blah blah. A woman's life is so hard, blah blah....

Am I the only bloke on here man enough to admit that I do that too, when I can, just to help the household along and give the dear ol' wifey a bit of a break from the routine........................................... ........but I draw the line at ironing. Can't do it, won't do it. :D

PS.Just like to add, I'm not one of those funny types, just a bloke whose trying to do his bit to help around the house.( I have teenagers.)

( All the above said in a very deep voice ) :p :laugh :laugh

[Carol]

aw....Bubbles....you modern day man you.

:cheers

yes my bloke will do it whenever I want him to also.......but then to be able to cook the meals in the week ahead (for alas he dosn't cook - as alien to him as ironing is to me!!) I need to know what he has got/hasn't got/got extra/which meat he bought just because it was on special blah blah - you know the type of thing...


I'm well aware of the "supermarket level" of display etc.
Although I must admit - it is nowhere near as bad here as it is in the UK

But...
for me personally that is where I prefer to shop.
Tawa has its own butchers, fruit and veg shop, bakery and 7 fish and chip shops!
But finding them open at the times I need them is not a happening thing.
Other than Saturdays.

I came here to spend my time better than shopping on a Saturday.
ANd so....Woolworths wins.

Oh yes - and I still detest P&S - they may be cheaper - but aaaaargh!!! can't bear it!

[Wannaway]

Hey I do the washing, iron my own clothes, help bath the kids, change the youngest's nappies etc. However I won't do polishing, for some reason I just hate it. Not keen on hoovering either, but I don't mind sweeping or washing floors. I loathe washing the car but my OH loves it for some bizarre reason. I think there is something strangely calming and therapeutic about certain household chores.

[jo b]

Hmm

don't want to drag this one out but going back to banks and charges. Some people seem to forget that any money transferred or chequed into an account in the UK takes 3 days to clear. Hidden charges absolutley! at least here you can access your money when it goes in the bank.
Jo

[Soon2baKiwi]

This is a great thread. Maybe it's because I've lived in a few different countries with different currencies (Punt, Sterling, Guilder and Euro) I've had no problem just adapting to the Dollar and don't ever think of conversion rates. Also, I didn't come here directly from the UK and Ireland is awfully expensive to live in so things here seem quite cheap. Mostly. Books! OMG. I've bought one new book since I've arrived last June. Never again. I've discovered loads of new writers because the women I work with keep bringing me bags of books :raebanana We were people who could never afford to go on holidays abroad. Even £10 ones, because it might only cost you £10 to get there but then you had to have accommodation and spending money and clothes and, and, and. Also, when you live in a different country from your family you tend to visit them when you have a holiday. And both of us were in that situation.

I do my shopping online. From Foodtown. It costs $12.95 for delivery over $100 order and that's cheap because if we're in the supermarket we throw loads of stuff we don't want, need or will ever use in the trolley and so spend much more than that $12.95. I go to the Specials section first and can mostly do almost all my shopping from there. Now, added to the fact that I hate shopping, I find the meat and veg to be absolutely brilliant quality. All I have to do is put it away :yes AND our grocery bill has dropped by about $50 per week. If anyone wants to try this out just click on this link www.foodtown.co.nz I've no idea if this is available all over the country, but I think it's brilliant.

[starkhorn]

And it looks like business is screwed for a while , and the predictions are that the recession is going to be worse than 91.
The good news for you is that you might get more $-£. Great ,but there will be fewer jobs in industry and IT me thinks (MO)


Really? They are fewer jobs in IT in NZ at the moment then? I was under the impression that there was a shortage of IT people in NZ, hence one of the main reasons for my application.

God I hate to find out that this isn't true........

Cheers
Starkhorn

[Wannaway]

Yesterday's Herald had a piece on the possible "hard landing" the NZ economy could experience later this year. This followed truly bizarre stories earlier on this week about a visit by NZ Government Officials to Japan to talk down the NZ economy - part of the reason why the NZ$ remains high is Japanese investors (and European investors also) have been piling money into Kiwi denominated investments because the interest rates here are high so they get a good return. You may have noticed a drop in the NZ$ at the end of this week - as potential investors get spooked about what is going to happen. Some of the more aggressive economists reckon the $ could drop by as much as 15% this year, which is good news for incoming migrants.

Yesterday's Herald suggested that employers may feel the pain more than employees, my typing skills not up to repeating why but the long and the short of it was that most employers will probably resist cutting staff numbers for as long as possible (because they know how difficult it is to recruit good people and they don't want to get caught short when the economy swings back up again), but I guess this may lead to a reduction in new recruits for a short period. It seems like employers/employees in the export sector are likely to come under most pressure, as they wait for a correction in the Kiwi $ to occur.

[Moorf]

Seems the papers were full of stories regarding uridashi bonds (the Japanese bonds mentioned in the above post)... makes interesting reading.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425823/651540

To keep my post on track, we haven't found NZ to be a rip off in any way except for some food products (i.e lamb, veggies) and these whinges are echoed by the locals so it's not a "better/worse than UK comparison". Having said that, we are saving on other items, such as car insurance, so having that saving swallowed up by shopping doesn't really hurt "that" much in the grand scheme of things. I'm actually amazed at just how good a quality of life is possible on what we initially perceived as a low monthly disposable income.

[zardell]

Hi.

You are all talking about 'Rip Off NZ', well how about this for 'Rip Off GB'

I've just got back from a trip to our local Focus (a lot like B&Q etc., for people who don't know) and all I wanted was 12 round headed brass screws.

Now you wouldn't think that to be too difficult a purchase would you ?

WRONG.

They don't sell them by weight, O.K, thats fine. They do however,sell them in pre-packed packets. PACKETS OF 11 !! At £2.59 a packet !!

Now call me old fashioned, but I would have thought that buying a 'dozen' of something makes sense, even possibly 10 of something, but 11 ???

Anyway, it cost me £5.18 for 22 screws, (now behave :roll ) 10 of which I dont need.

Anyone need 10 brass screws??

Julie.

x

[Wannaway]

Very frustrating but also quite amusing. They have taken a punt haven't they - knowing that 11 is highly unlikely to be the right number for anyone or anything, snaring people who need 12 to buying another packet. Thats just sneaky and petty.

I don't know whether a "Baker's Dozen" still exists (which consists of 12 plus 1 items), but Focus policy on screws - being 12 less 1 sjould be referred to a Tosser's Dozen (I could think of much worse but it would be moderated out!).

[zardell]

:laugh :laugh :laugh

Ooooh a Tossers Dozen......I like it !! :D

Julie.

x

[Diny]

Yesterday I was backing the car down the drive when I picked up a nail in my back tyre.

This morning I went to the local tyre centre where they fixed the puncture, took the 'emergency' wheel off, put the good one back on, painted all 4 tyres with silicone and also checked the pressure in all 4. They did this the instant I arrived and it took them about 10 mins.

The total cost was $15.00 !!!! And to make matters so much better, the strapping young Maori guy who did the biz was just SOOOOOOOO darn good looking !!!!!

Rip off NZ? I don't think so.

Diny

[zardell]

Hey Diny...

$15 ?? Is that all??? Sounds like a good deal to me.

You couldn't have bought 33 screws in Focus for that !! LOL

Julie.

x

[Carol]

You couldn't have bought 33 screws in Focus for that !! LOL



:laugh :laugh
:laugh

[Radders]

Books are more expensive in NZ because there are no government subsidies like in the UK. Best bet is to use your library, or the second hand bookstores!

[StevieD]

That Julie is so you can have screws next time you may need them, thus saving you the trip to the Focus, and as Jo B told us, it is the economies of scale, like the bogof offers, they buy 'em in cheap, flog 'em off as a so called "aren't we good to you" offer, all of the time saving on warehouse space because you, the consumer, stuff your cupboards to the gunnels with products that they are saving on storing!
I suppose if you have time to shop around, then things are likely to be found as bargains. But we all feel that we are "ripped off" in some way at some time, Things seem to me to be up front in NZ, taxation in particular. But time will tell with us, but like everybody, we just have to get on with it.

[zardell]

Well, love, it may well be called the 'economies of scale', but I personally call it a scandalous rip off, justified by the 'economies of scale' inventor, otherwise known as the Tossers Dozen Instigator.

And it obviously works, cos whose the marketing victim thats ended up with 10 extra screws and a few quid lighter in her purse ??

Anyway.........onward and upward.

Julie

x

[Avalon]

Screws: Well - bolts actually: Bought some draw handles to replace the tacky placcy ones - got them home to find the bolts were too short :wah So toddled off to Carters - who dont sell bolts - only draw handles with bolts :wah So the rather nice gentlemen opened 4 packets of draw handles adn sold we 8 bolts out of them for $2 :) Ive found this a few times - much more ability to be flexible and work round a problem. It doesnt happen all the time mind - but enough to just make life a little less irritating. (Of course I still want to know why the original bolts were too short)

Best bet is to use your library, or the second hand bookstores!

No good for those of us who are pathologically incapable of NOT buying the books :laugh Thankfully - there is amazon!

[GeorgeM]

So the rather nice gentlemen opened 4 packets of draw handles adn sold we 8 bolts out of them for $2 :) Ive found this a few times - much more ability to be flexible and work round a problem.When we lived in Portishead near Bristol there was a great hardware store in the High St (probably long since gone) where the old guy who run it also used to open up multipacks to sell you the quantity you wanted.

Very often he'd say something like 'Why on earth they ever thought you'd need 3 of these is beyond me'!

[Dhart1978]

Going back to banking, although we live in Dunedin, we bank with HSBC in auckland, all done online over the internet. No bank fees, no transaction fees, no withrdawal fees so long as you use westpac stations. As we never use a branch anyway this is great for us. Also, we use it to transfer funds back to my other halfs HSBC account in the UK, cost $20 a transaction and takes about a day at most.

They have farmers markets down here where all the farmers from the local areas bring their stuuf down on stalls, every type of food you could think off, comparable prices or cheaper than the supermarkets and the quality is virtually always superior.

[Avalon]

Dhart-

I was going to move over to HSBC for this very reason. Even though I dont live in Auckland, im used to not having branches to deal with anyway so it was no issue.

However - when it came to the Mortgage - they wouldnt even look at offering me a good deal - so they lost out (I dont pay bank fees anymore now because of the mortgage - its supposed to be $10 a month - but I said i didnt want to pay it - so I dont have to).

[Dhart1978]

yeah, we are not yet looking at mortgages yet so it hasnt come up, we actually do have 2 accounts, as we kept the BNZ account we had to start off with, on that we moved to some kind of under 30's smart account in which we dont seem to pay any static fees, through i think we do pay transaction charges once we go over a certain number, since we dont use that account much anymore it hasnt been an issue

[StevieD]

OMG under 30's account!!! Now that is scary, makes me feel old...... :(

[Radders]

Supermarket fruit and veg may look good, but it doesn't stay that way for long, and generally has less of the good things you buy it for than say fresh stuff at a farmers market or a local grocer. The farmers market in Tauranga is excellent, and its great seeing what new things are available each week. We top up our fruit and veg at the local grocers, and don't really buy any fruit or veg from the supermarket. For example we bought a bag of mesculin at the supermarket and one from the farmers market. Within two days the supermarket version was going soggy and rotting (even with all those chemicals on it), but the farmers market version was still as fresh at the end of the week - and tasted better! If supermarkets had their way, the would be no local shops, and the only fruit and veg we would get is those varieties that lasted the longest - picked when they were raw, and cold stored for 9 months, so it was available all year round.

[traveler]

I wonder how many brass screws (and other assorted hardware) I can fit into the overhead bin on the airplane?

Just kidding. I hope to emigrate (from the US) and am just now starting out. One of the things that has crossed my mind is what to bring (for another thread) that is hard to get and expensive in NZ.

I also own a food business, so I find this thread interesting. I would think locally grown and locally supported (farmers markets and local farmers) would be the most desirable way to go for several reasons. Possibly organically grown (big plus), and by supporting the small businessman, you're helping to keep the money in circulation within the local community (big plus).

I try to buy from small independent businesses when I can. If I can, not always possible and sometimes, not always affordable. Here in the States, and probably elsewhere, large corporate monopolies have squeezed out so many of the small businesses. Multi-generational businesses are long gone and the independent businessman or woman has a hard time trying to compete and retain customers. Some stick, most don't, and in time, the small business just dries up and blows away.

I was going to register on the Foodtown online website, check their delivery prices to the States! :)

I am curious how prices compare there to over here and how much of a local farmers market is available. I am strongly oriented around locally grown and sustainable farming and plan to grow some of my own food. Can anybody comment on this? Are there many people in NZ that are also doing this type of living / lifestyle? If so, which island / area?

[ruthyroo]

Re. farmers markets. I've actually been impressed with the few markets I've been to - Dunedin (weekly), Nelson and Hawkes Bay. Most farmers markets in the UK tend to be dominated by small scale boutique producers, with prices to match their niche markets. In Dunedin at least the prices for fruit and veg at the markets is often less than the supermarkets - especially for seasonal, local but non-organically grown f & v. Organic is a bit more expensive and not as widely available as the UK. Meat and fish is much the same as the butcher / fish shop and probably more expensive than the supermarkets.

[shameless]

Traveler, I am in much the same positionas you. Although, it seems like you might be in NZ by now given the date of your post. We are moving to Wellington in a couple of months and currently live in CA where I buy local and organic almost exclusively. I actually have pretty high expectation of NZ on that front as things like grass fed beef from NZ is become very common in the US.

I also think a running list of what to buy in the US or UK is a great idea. My theory is fill your bags with things that are expensive in NZ and buy things that are cheap when you get here. I may even buy a new Laptop and sell the old one in NZ. Let me know if you start that thread, or if it has already been started.

[StevenC]

On the whole though what's the bottom line in terms of quality vs cost.

I live in Devon, in a nice picturesque town by the sea, and pay extortionate council tax and water rates to name just two monthly bills which I feel "ripped off about". £130 each to be precise. Add that to rent, electricity and gas and you're (or rather "I'm"!) looking at a sizeable chunk of my take home salary each month. I rent my house and I can't afford at this moment in time to put down a deposit to buy (one of a plethora of reasons to look to the land of the long white cloud!)

How do utilities measure up in NZ? I'm willing to take a hit on a few bank charges here and there if the monthly running of my home isn't costing me an arm and a leg each month.

[Avalon]

How do utilities measure up in NZ? I'm willing to take a hit on a few bank charges here and there if the monthly running of my home isn't costing me an arm and a leg each month.

They seem very expensive to me at least - but everyone has a different idea of expensive. And that is what makes these thread very difficult. Our Leccy bill was running at about $300 a month in summer - and looking more like $500 a month in winter. Bear in mind that in a lot of NZ homes - if you have to heat using leccy which is expensive - most of the heat goes straight out the house. Thats a "Wet Finger in the wind" as I dont have a full winter in the house yet. And that is for a 5 bed house. Telephone runds at abput $200 a month. We dont pay water arets or sewage. Rubbish collection is $370 a year.

You wont have anything called council tax - but do remember you have to pay the same thing here - its just called rates. I cant give a good figure - as our last years bills were low - based on the value of this land before the house was built. Im not looking forward to the next bill.

[clg]

Shameless, between moore wilsons and farmers markets you will be fine in Wellington, you can get very high quality food here but you will have to shop around a bit more.

For utilities our electricity is ~110 in summer and more like 150 in winter. But we spend another 2500 a year on diesel for heat. We have a large house. Our phone is not that bad, about 80 for phone and broadand. We also keep a vonage # though which is US20 a month but that covers all of our calling back to the states and makes it cheap (or free) for people there to call us.

Rates include water/sewer and I want to say that they are around .6% of the valuation of your house, so something like 600 per 100k of house valuation.

[Avalon]

Rates include water/sewer and I want to say that they are around .6% of the valuation of your house, so something like 600 per 100k of house valuation.

{{{{GULP}}}} :)

[clg]

As crazy as it sounds I think rates are a good deal here compared to property taxes in the US. We paid more there and got almost nothing. Property taxes support local services (schools/fire/polic/local government). Local services were very bad, libraries doubled as homeless hangouts, public schools fairly dire and we still had to pay seperate bills for water/sewer/electricty/gas/trash. You also end up paying extra by doing things like private school, private security, buying new books all because the services are so poor.

MUCH better public services here, outstanding I would say compared to LA at least so at least I feel like we get something for our rates. Wellington Council sends out these quarterly magazines that talk about what is going on and I really like that. I don't like writing the checks but at least I feel like I get something for it. I REALLY used to hate paying my property taxes!

[K&CS]

We haven't had a summer here yet, so I don't know how much our summer bills would be, and we are in a 3 bed rental (although there are 5 of us), so we don't pay rates, but we pay around $100 on leccy per month, $100 on telephone and we've spent about $600 on wood which should hopefully last through to the end of the winter (that's from about April). We are pretty careful, I have to say, and given that June was freezing and we managed to stick to this, I can't see it being any more expensive than that. We are paying a lot less for utilities at the moment, but I am sure that will change once we have our own house which will be bigger and we will also have to pay rates.

[Rizak]

Alright, time for some more numbers. All have been converted to NZ$.
Here is a non-comprehensive and somewhat general amount for what I pay here in Canada each month:
mortgage $1120
insurance $175
phone/internet $135
natural gas $200
electricity $100
property tax $370

TOTAL OUT $2100/month

This is without paying for a car (or two) or gasoline, food, entertainment, etc. And we do like to eat!
:(

I need better numbers. I may need to make them up.

Everything is either more expensive or less expensive and it all depends on where you live. GAH! It is enough to make a man crazy. I don't even know if I'd be making more money based on income taxes. It's hard to tell based on my pay stub because a huge chunk of money is put into a retirement fund and I don't yet know if/when I can get at that. I know that I only 'see' about 60% of what I 'make'.

Beer make pain go away.