[willsken]

We have talked about leaving the UK for some years. Talked it to death sometimes :uhoh but we never got round to taking the plunge and actually going for it until...............................?

What was the final straw that made you all decide?


For me it was when a pupil in my school was outside at break time and a boy came onto the site (not from our school) and stabbed him in the neck. Now the pupil it happened to is fine and the wound wasn't as bad as it could have been. But for me I was just so shocked it happened at all that I decided there and then, on that day, I was off. And the rest as they say is history! :D

[Cardiff Irons]

Five continuous days of very cold, windy and rainy weather at the beginning of June last year.:(

[Rabbit]

- The thought of spending the rest of my life on the road stuck in a traffic jam on the M6.

- Taking three hours to travel 25 miles

- Continually working away and living in Hotels and B&B's.

- Trying to get out of the TESCO carpark at rush hour.

- Lousy weather

- Lousy job prospects

- Burnout, boredom and the need to do something else

- The realisation that I am not going to live forever

- Read a book called "Who moved my Cheese?"

- Do nothing became no longer an option

[StevieD]

:laugh

the realisation there was more to life than living on a mouse wheel in the uk.

the feeling of going nowhere
gangsters and scallies
litter
drugs culture
yobs
overcrowding
immigrants "ruling the roost"
political correctness gone mad
class system
the press

[Miggy]

Being hijacked/mugged on my drive for my car at 7:30 in the morning - nearly got away with our then 18 month old son!

We'd also talked about it for ages but this, as you can well imagine, was the final straw

[willsken]

Being hijacked/mugged on my drive for my car at 7:30 in the morning - nearly got away with our then 18 month old son!

We'd also talked about it for ages but this, as you can well imagine, was the final straw


My God thats terrible. I hope you are all OK now. Don't blame you for wanting to leave! :mad:

[Cardy]

For us it was a visit to skegness which used to be one of our favourite places when the kids were small. We saw an old lady in a wheel chair knock someone by mistake ,the woman she knocked had 3 young children with her and the whole family turned on the old lady and used such language i couldnt believe it. When we went back to the caravan there was a fight acrooss from us and the caravan they were in had every window put out. we decided there and then that if this was what england had turned into it wasnt for us or our children anymore. peoples manners in general seem to have got really bad year on year to. We heard a mother telling her son off on our street and he turned round and said Shut UP Fat B&%$*tch . :( so NZ here we come on March 7th Woo Hoo!!! :raebanana

[Carol]

To be honest - it was Dunblane.


We were actually booked and ready to go but that was it for me.


this is a very good thread to read through and remind ourselves why exactly we came....... 10 years (almost) on......no regrets. Other than missing our family.

[wanderingoregonian]

We'd wanted to live abroad for awhile....

but that morning after the American Election on my drive to work I started crying and realized that I no longer felt at 'home' here. We'd been up late the night before in Copley Square (boston) waiting for the election results, thinking that maybe just maybe Kerry had pulled it off... while I love the diversity of thought in America, more and more I feel that I can't speak my own mind, and feel that I have to defend my fairly tame opinions more as time goes on. And somedays it is exhausting listening to adults around me talk about how there is no way that there is any possibility that climate change may be occuring, the evolution may occur, and that things in Iraq aren't stellar. This week I actually heard someone argue that oil is environmentally sound and sustainable compared to wind (wind requires equipment that will wear out - although so do oil pipes), ethenol (depletes soil), etc. While I understand that all energy has a cost, he completely was ignoring the issues related to oil (spills, distribution costs, processing requirements etc) and said that it was underground so we should use it.

Anyway, the day after the election our decision was made, no turning back... its been a slow process, but there is no doubt that we are going

I also really really miss playing outdoors and having people matter more than stuff. Healthcare and education also is a bit of a worry here. Whenever I'm in NZ or Australia I feel like I'm home...

[Diny]

I agree - a very interesting thread.

For us there was no final push, just the discussions and plans of 15 years coming to fruition.

I can understand alot of the reasons/comments listed above, some of your experiences are dreadful - like something out of a movie. However, with all that said, there's a good few items listed above that definately exisit here in NZ too. I can only advise people not to think of NZ as the be all and end all - wherever there are human beings there will be this kind of behaviour.

When all is said and done though, the tiny population (in comparison) over here means that such 'actions' aren't so 'in your face'.

It'll be interesting to see what NZ is like in 20 years time.

Diny

[jo b]

Thanks for this thread.

Been feeling a tad homesick and I know if I go back that I would face the same drudgery of traffic, bad manners 'mulitculturalism' etc. etc. It has just reminded me of why I left the only thing I miss is family.

Jo

[zardell]

To be honest, Steve (my OH) and I have talked on and off about leaving the UK for quite a while now.

Kids have grown up and left home, have good jobs with lives and families of their own, so for us it's been a 'why not give it a go? / nothing to loose - all to gain' type scenario.

However, all we have to do is watch the news every night and it does nothing but confirm our commitment to the move.

Earlier today, I was telling a friend about how intimidated I felt whilst I was out shopping in Blackburn town centre the other day.

There were so many groups of youths about and they all seemed to be wearing these 'hoodies' which means you can't see their faces - its probably paranoia on my part, but nevertheless its how I felt.

So, no, unlike some of the other posts on this thread, there's nothing specific that has given us the final push, but I hope upon hope that there never is.

Julie

xx

[Carol]

It'll be interesting to see what NZ is like in 20 years time.

Diny


yes you are right Diny.

What we are doing here at this moment in time is buying ourselves and our kids quality time.


Long may it last.....

[K&CS]

I've already posted on this thread once, but it seems to have disappeared! We're moving purely and simply because we fell in love with the South Island, and thought Christchurch would be a good place for us to settle. I'm unusual, I think, in that I like the UK and where I live and am actually proud of a lot of British things (the NHS being one of them, although I'm sure a lot of you will laugh at that). This is about moving to NZ rather than leaving the UK, if you see what I mean.

I am under no illusions that awful crimes don't happen over there too. Some of you have had awful experiences and I can't blame you for feeling the way you do!

Kate

[willsken]

yes you are right Diny.

What we are doing here at this moment in time is buying ourselves and our kids quality time.


Long may it last.....

Yes quite right. I am under no illusions at all. Where there is man (OK, woman to... just to be politically correct you understand) there will be all the problems we want to get away from. But I also believe that with the small population we will have it better in NZ for a while. I want that for my boys and where they will end up having to go in order to get that for their own children is beyond me. At least I will have given them the best that I possibly can.

[Diny]

I'm unusual, I think, in that I like the UK and where I live and am actually proud of a lot of British things (the NHS being one of them, although I'm sure a lot of you will laugh at that). This is about moving to NZ rather than leaving the UK, if you see what I mean.


Kate


I'm right there with you Kate. I make no secret of loving the UK - and I am VERY proud to be British !!!!

I can honestly say hand on heart that had I not married a Kiwi it's more than likely that I'd have never ventured to these parts in the first place.

Reading back over my first post I feel I sounded a tad negative. That's not my intention. NZ is a lovely place, the scenery is breathtaking, the lack of crowds is more than refreshing - and I'm sure if I sit and think about it long enough I can come up with stacks of other things which make this country 'awesome' (God I hate that word).

However, I can't help feeling a touch concerned for some people who (it appears) think that none of the everyday problems of the 'old country' exisit here.

Yesterday I was hassled by a crowd of youngsters sitting on the school wall - all wearing hoodies and 'gang' bandanas tied around their heads - while walking down to the local 4 Square. There's signs everywhere telling us to lock our cars, houses and garden gates. There's grafiti and vandalism, murders and muggings here too. Yes - they are less frequent, but that's nothing to do with the fact that the people who inhabit this country are meek, mild and more law abiding. It's just that there's less people here. It's all a matter of demographics.

As for the well mannered youths ??????? Let's not go there.

NZ IS a wonderful place, and I'm sure you will all have a great life here, but please don't think of it as some kind of crime free, clean breathing, educationally advanced haven - cos it ain't !!!!!!!!!!

When all is said and done - I like it here, can't say I plan to grow old here, but I would definately recommend anybody to give it a go - it's well worth it.

Diny

[Kim39]

Ok, i am not going to say why we came here because i think everybody has contributed to my reasons, but i would like to share with you why not to go back and why NZ is the place for us all at some stage. These extracts were given to us the night before we left. They are from a friend of ours who sat a counselling qualification whilst serving in the police force.

On sheet one is a little message with this passage in it: So if you reach a stage where you are feeling low take the sheet and compare what Britain has in relation to what NZ has. The sheet she gave us was the downside of Britain. Then she said to write down the downside of NZ, but the list must contain the same number of issues. Compare the two lists and think about it. Go back to it a few weeks later and compare the lists again before deciding which one you can live with.

She stated 5 reasons for us. I'll give you a couple

1: Brain Drain from UK is worst in the World.
Britain has lost more skilled workers to the global "brain drain" than any other country, according to a report from the World Bank. More than 1.44million graduates have left the UK to look for more highly paid joibs in such countries such as USA, Canada, Oz. That far outweighs the 1.26 million immigrants graduates in the UK leaving a brain drain of some 200,000 people.

She then gave us the situation from the recent Iraq conflict. Saying about Britain still playing an active central logistical role for the Militants, with extremists, including the alledged mastermind of 2004 Morocco bombings. Radical activists using Britain for fundraising, massive credit card fraud, the manufacture of false documents and planning. Recruitment is rife throughout the UK. In one bugged conversation, a senior militant describes London as the "nerve centre" and says that his group has Albanians,Swiss [and] British recruits. He needs people who are "intelligent and highly educated" and he says that the UK can,and does, supply them.

She mentions about the education system and Health. The reason why GPs have opted out of seeing patients in the evening and night and its due to a 6k paycut- a deal which was hammered out with Health secretary John Reid 18 months ago as part of the modernisation reforms. But the underlying issue is the fact there are 3,000 GP posts vacant. And this steams from the bureaucracy and the target obsessed culture of the NHS.

And last but not least, she tells us about tagging. Since the British gov't launched its flagship 100 mil programme to tackle persisitent young offenders, an Oxford Uni study displays nine out of ten offenders on the scheme, which involves tagging and police surveillance, re-offend within 2 years.

I suppose this added to the reason of why we left, and more for the fact that we don't want to return. Everytime i get a pang of homesickness i pull out this letter and i realise why we are here.


Kim

[Bruckner]

We always wanted to try living outside the US and experience living in another country. Post 9/11 we talked about it regularly and after the twins were born we decided not to wait any longer.

Emily

[zardell]

Alright, let me get down to some basics here.

First and foremost, I am not naive enough to think that NZ is the land of milk and honey, nor do I believe that it is a country without its social and or economic problems.

Diny, you did not sound negative on your first post on this thread...you never seem to give any opinion that is not well thought out and/or constructive. You just 'tell it like it is' and that's how it should be.

I too love the UK and I used to love where I live, but not anymore. I'm a townie at heart, but Blackburn is becoming too overpopulated and busy for me. Yes, there has always been and there always will be the 'youth' element in any society, but I have NEVER felt intimidated before - well, now I do. More of them, less of me scenario.

We were going to move away from Blackburn anyway, so instead of paying for an overpriced property in the UK, we decided to give NZ a go. Nowt to loose.

We seem to be coming from the same train of thought as Carol. If we can, Steve and I want to buy some quality time together. Like I said, we have got the kids off our hands, so now its our turn.

I don't expect NZ's society to be much different than the UK (that's one of the reasons we chose it in the first place) but I'm hoping that its more like the UK of 20 years ago. Yes, there were big problems in the UK then too, but even with the benefit of hindsight, somehow I dont believe that lessons were learnt.

If I'm still wearing my rose coloured specs well, that's O.K, I'm prepared to be a little disappointed. If however any of you think I should be carrying a white stick, well that's another matter. Let me know.

Julie

xx

[willsken]

I think it is easy to be pulled into the feeling "I hate the UK". When I sit and really think it through I feel saddened feeling the way I do. There are many many beautiful parts to the UK. I just can't afford to live in them. I long for peace and space. No matter where I go I am surrounded by crowds or sat in traffic. I queue every morning and take 50 minutes making a 15 minute journey. I don't want this life any more. I don't want it for my children either.

That being said I do believe that we in the UK experience more crime on a low, day to day level than we will experience in NZ. As has been said, this may be due to the lower population. I don't care what it's due to I will just be glad to live with it.

I can't wait to be able to let my little boys out on their bikes because there will be safe places for them to ride. We have a cycle track that we used to go to but it was always littered with broken bottles and other things I won't mention. Our park is the same. Glass everywhere and again the other unmentionables! (Mentioned to me by my 12 year old when he came home from playing football the other day).

I have a very impractical 2 seater car and I had to catch the bus into town a while ago as I had both the boys with me and OH had gone out in his car. I have to say that it was the worst experience I've had for a long time. There was a load of drunken men at the back. They were shouting and swearing and I had to keep telling the boys not to look at them. After a lot of fuss they were eventually tossed off the bus. This was in the middle of the day.

I’m not wearing rose coloured specs. I know what I’m going to get right down to the hooners. But I live in an area that is considered to be "nice". Maybe it was 10 years ago when we moved here, but now I don't really feel safe any more. I don't even like going to the Chinese on a Saturday nigh because of the local youth. They scare me because youngsters really don't care any more. (Generalising, I know. I am aware that there are still a lot of lovely kids out there, but I’m afraid they are the minority) I have worked with teenagers for many years, as a social worker and as a teacher and fear wasn’t something I ever used to feel.

I could go on and on and on about the little things that make life unpleasant for me and even longer about the horrible stories you hear every day from the things happening to friend etc. I won’t because most people live through the same things. There are still some beautiful and peaceful places to live in the UK and for people lucky enough to live in them I glad for them. For most of us in the UK things have become very bad. You only have to look at the amount of people leaving. The people I feel sorry for are those stuck here with no way to leave.

Sorry, this is the longest ramble I have ever posted.

[zardell]

Ooooh well said Nicola.........

No need to apologise - it was a brilliant ramble in my book.

Julie

xx

[Bean]

For me and my OH it was six months spent travelling around (mainly SI) and realising what a great place it was. Our feelings, entirely personal are that.....in no particular order

NZ has better weather than Scotland (not difficult I know!!).

It also has amazing green wild SPACE with mountains to climb, sounds to kayak and sail and huge areas of national park. These are things that are important to us and activities that we do regularly, love and keep us sane.....so yes NZ feels like heaven to me as a mountaineer....

Walking on pristine sandy beaches, with no plastic, fish crates or oiled up seabirds, only amazing diftwood and oystercatchers..

All the kiwis I met seemed friendly, honest people. Wherever we went folk were interested and chatty, helping us out and inviting us in to their homes, lives and new year parties.....

I also love the idea of growing lemons, advocado and grapes in my garden....heaven for a horticuluralist....and tree ferns.....

I was really impressed with NZ as a country, giving women the vote first in the world and standing up to America.....

Great beer/wine and food......

I could ramble on but I won't...........

All in all we feel that it would be a good place to settle, get a section, build a house and build a life.

If that sounds too rose tinted for people.........I don't really care!!! The only way I can make decisions about my life is based on my own experiences and they were pretty damn good............ :clap :clap :clap

Bean

[Diny]

If however any of you think I should be carrying a white stick, well that's another matter. Let me know.

Julie

xx


No - you don't need a white stick. Expect the good with the bad, the rough with the smooth and you'll do just fine. Life (and where you live) is what you make it.

Diny

[wilson182]

I think it is easy to be pulled into the feeling "I hate the UK". When I sit and really think it through I feel saddened feeling the way I do. There are many many beautiful parts to the UK. I just can't afford to live in them. I long for peace and space. No matter where I go I am surrounded by crowds or sat in traffic. I queue every morning and take 50 minutes making a 15 minute journey. I don't want this life any more. I don't want it for my children either.

I could go on and on and on about the little things that make life unpleasant for me and even longer about the horrible stories you hear every day from the things happening to friend etc. I won’t because most people live through the same things. There are still some beautiful and peaceful places to live in the UK and for people lucky enough to live in them I glad for them. For most of us in the UK things have become very bad. You only have to look at the amount of people leaving. The people I feel sorry for are those stuck here with no way to leave.

.

Hi Nicola

Most of what you have said in your post pretty much sums us up as well, but you first and last paragraph probably most of all. We are very happy here, we have had our ups and downs, like everyone in the migrant experience, but more or less we have found what we were looking for.

[Smiler]

Nice Thread :nice1

OH would have come over without a visit, winging it, and not worried one iota. He didn't need a push. Me I was a bit wobbly but doubts about staying in the UK where building up.

The crime rate. Ok I was probably move exposed to it than some, but the level of violence just for petty crime was out of hand. Shootings and stabbing were becoming much more common.I used to live in a part of Surrey where you would be broken into even if you were indoors. I could not shake that feeling even when living in the country.There is crime here but it is like reading a sanitised version of our local paper, the Surrey Herald.

My job. We lived in a village and I had to travel to work. I drove to work with my doors locked at 6 am, a long journey fraught with traffic jams. I could not earn my salary locally. Eventually, I gave up my full time job and came to work with my OH on our own company. This meant we could travel, live and work anywhere.

I dealt with the bereaved in my job. I so often heard the people left behind saying, so and so always wanted to..... or he had this planned and now he won't........ I didn't want to be a 'I wish I had' aged 80 in a old folks home.

We had the choice of where to live in the UK but had always planned on Cornwall, even there was becoming too commercialised and full of cars and crime.
We wanted to see the pacific islands and more of this side of the world, ok parts of NZ are 'commercialised' but there are loads places to go that aren't.

Finally, there was a nasty accident that I dealt with at work, it made me very ill and I was sick from work for nearly a year. But coming back and seeing the distraught family turning a huge negative into a postive over a year or so gave me the push. There was more to life than this hamster wheel. I handed my notice in one monday morning, my colleagues thought I was messing around, one of those threats we all make.

Nicola says it all in her post, but we've not got our rosey specs on.

I would not have walked though Guildford on my own ( or in a group) on a Saturday night, but last week I walked alone through Wellington at 10.30 pm and it felt so much better. Of course I was aware and prepared should something have happened but the underlying fear that something WOULD happen was not there.

A ramble too but it could have been 10 pages.........

D

[Avalon]

I'm unusual, I think, in that I like the UK and where I live and am actually proud of a lot of British things (the NHS being one of them, although I'm sure a lot of you will laugh at that). This is about moving to NZ rather than leaving the UK, if you see what I mean.


With you there!

I love England, I love the countryside, the beauty, the history (really really missing that), castles (of which thanks to Peter Jackson NZ now has 2!) Im proud to be british and never for one moment dreamed I would be leaving.

But then we came on Holiday to NZ - and just loved it too.

The decision was really made on the basis that the cost of living was going to me so much cheaper here (got that a bit wrong :) ) and that we could get ahead financially a bit easier. Im not sure that we couldnnt have done that in the UK, given the cost of mortgages is so high here at the moment.

But it really was the space here more than anything which we fell for. Much as I love the english countryside - space is becoming scarce. I wouldnt have been much longer before the feilds we looked over had housing estates on them - complete with street lights - cos god forbid someone would move to the country and put up with dark nights!

So like you I wasnt really "leaving the uk", but "moving to NZ".

[Malin]

Hello

as always: sorry for all mistakes :mad: - but I want to tell our reasons,too!

A while ago I had a seminar and was asked: imagine you are 80 years old and look back over your live - what would you regret (if you don't do it)? This question was my final push.
I realised, I would always regret if we live forever in this small, sticky town we live now, if i do my job for the next 20 years (even it's the best I can imagine), if I see the world only as a tourist, trying nothing new.
It came more urgent when I turned 40, because I had the feeling of 'time is passing very fast'.
It also could have been Zanzibar or Oman for me, I feel very tempted by the imagination to be a stranger (I lived for a year in another country and liked this feeling a lot).
But it's gonna be NZ because of my husbands unemployment - that was his final push. It lasts now for 18 month without any perspective, but it looks very well for him in NZ.

Malin

[Debbie]

We had thought about it for a long time, allthe usuall reasons but never got the gumption to act on it and them my aunt died and at her funeral I realised that you are remenbered by the things you do, not for the things you never got around to. So for good or bad we are going and living the experience for all it's worth.
Single also had a thread Wattle Cove and posted some great pics and one of some young girls (aged I guess between 6-10) riding their bikes and enjoying their dolls without the need for a parent standing guard. When I have doubt that image gives me reasurance.
Debbie
debbie

[marcia]

We hadn't really thought about moving counties, we would have moved in the uk to a small holding with a couple of acres of land if we could, but just haven't got half a million pounds to buy anything (minimum!!)

It was christmas 2004, we had been chatting to my avon lady who had just visited her brother in nelson, she was saying how lovely it was, Kev had been chatting to a friend of ours who's brother had been out on a world tour, and we watched Billy Connelly's world tour. That night as we were getting ready for bed Kev said - we could do it you know - and I'm like - yeah live in the real world - it's a dream!!

However now more than a year on, I realise that it's a dream that will (eventually) come true for us.

I couldn't contemplate moving to the otherside of the world without having been there - some of you who do it are much braver than me. So hence our reccy trip (report in progress will be posted soon!) ok it cost us quite a lot, but now feel so much happier making the move, in fact I would be happy to pack up and go on a visitors visa, I am so confident that it will all be ok. (And for anyone who really knows me that is a huge thing for me to do - Mrs Organised - everything has to 100% sorted and checked)

So our - 'push' was the avon lady and Billy Connelly. Plus about a million of the reasons others have mentioned about the declining uk!

[Singel]

Single also had a thread Wattle Cove and posted some great pics and one of some young girls (aged I guess between 6-10) riding their bikes and enjoying their dolls without the need for a parent standing guard. When I have doubt that image gives me reasurance.
Debbie
debbie
Debbie, you mean this one................ :)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Singel8/20050806-155256.jpg

[Debbie]

That's the one.
I know NZ is the land of the great views, beachs and so one..
But at the end of the day I have to be able to live there day to day and my kids need to be happy and safe and be kids for as long as is natural, (not aged 10, smoking, looking like jail bait and worried about boyfriends). This picture give me hope that NZ will go some of the way to meeting this 'dream'. The rest I know is my job as a parent but Im a fully paid up member of the 'mean mum club'.
Debbie

[GeorgeM]

IR35 and the destruction of the freelance IT industry.

Working as a contractor within the insurance industry (where companies are not VAT registered and so couldn't claim back the VAT I was charging them) IR35 effectively stood to bring my marginal tax rate to almost 60%.

At the same time government incentives to bring in workers from the developing world at a fraction of the rates being paid onshore meant that hourly/daily rates were being driven down.

Rates going through the floor and the possibility of taxes going through the roof was the final straw for me.

Four years down the track I am soooooooo grateful to Red Dawn (Primorolo) and her cronies for doing this - had they not been so greedy I might have ended up staying in the UK and missing out on life in the beautiful city of Christchurch in the beautiful country of NZ.

[Buyio]

Nasty experience with the school kid, willsken. Hapily we didn't have that kind of experiences. But had/still have :wah :
- lousy sistem
- trafic jam
- COOOOLD!!! (we had -18 C last week)
- lousy services (you pay and dont get anything)
- lousy lifestyle
- no opportunities around here (just go outside)
- all local "brains" are abroad, the left ones are brain damaged
- coruption (and you can't miss it)
I could go on for hours...but let's stick to the important facts :laugh

[Smiler]

George
I'd forgotten about IR35. (How could I:wah) It took us a long time to sort that one out and I remember reading other peoples horror stories.

D

[smitjo]

This thread has been so helpful - when you start to question your decisions it is great to have a look back and remember why we are doing all of this!

All of our friends think that we are absolutely mad - they don't actually say it to our faces but you can see it in their eyes! Why would a young married couple give up two very good jobs, fantastic hobbies, a horse and their families for the unknown??? I just think that their is more to life, I don't feel completely settled and am yearning for something more. I often listen to people who dream of moving away, living somewhere different and experiencing new things. We wanted to make that all happen - I don't want to look out of my window at work in ten years time and think 'what if'.

I grew up in South Africa, one of the most violent and crime ridden countries - but had the most FANTASTIC childhood. The open spaces, warmer climate, sporty nation was brilliant and you learn to take the rough with the smooth. Yes, I had to lock my doors, jump traffic lights at night and live behind an electric fence but the good points always outweighed the bad and their were plenty of good. However I wanted to come back ‘HOME’ to the UK, to what I remembered - but since returning (back for 8 years now) it isn’t the same. NZ has always appealed to my husband and I, somewhere fantastic to bring up our children in the future and hopefully give them some of the lovely experiences that I had in my childhood. I don’t expect it to be perfect (far from it) but neither was SA and those were the best years of my life. NZ has everything that we are looking for – outdoor lifestyle, slightly better climate, sports, beautiful scenery, cheaper house prices and better farming opportunities. We have got our PR and head of to Welly in October, never been to NZ but we are ready to start our new lives there. It’s going to be hard but I believe well worth it in the end!

Sorry to ramble – must be the journalist in me!!!

[leosus]

For me after a trip to NZ, I realised I didn't know there were actually people/ lifestlyes like that anywhere. When I went back the overwhelming emptiness I found in our culture and society is what has pushed me. For me it is rare to find persons who are not driven by thier materialism in one form or another, and I find it hard to escape the ridiculous here.

Fake, fake, fake is what I wander around thinking. I hate to sound cliche but Socrates summed it up when he said "the unexamined life is not worth living". I don't think 90% of Americans think from day to day about thier personal environmental, cultural, societal impact or care, they are too worried about the greedy beast that lives inside.

I don't mean to make NZ sound like Eutopia but NZ on a whole seems to have less seroius issues, and have better ground to stand on (i.e. environmental policies, nuclear policies, etc.). Even my friends, and people I consider to have a reasonable mind tend to shrug off most ALL of the Us's problems, because they don't want to be inconvenienced. As long as they get to watch Desperate Housewives, eat thier McDonald's in fropnt of the TV, and consider gastric bypass surgery, the problems around them are invisible. I am pushed daily.

Mini rant, sorry.

[ruthyroo]

For us it was nothing to do with wanting to leave Scotland - it was just a stage in life we reached that it all fitted... we were both in jobs that we were looking for a change from, we'd bought our flat and done it all up and didn't need to do anything else to, our parents were of an age when they were young and fit enough not to need cared for, for (hopefully) a long time, we haven't had any kids (yet), we were both eminently qualified and Mr Rr was a teacher just when NZ was crying out for secondary teachers. And we were looking for an adventure. It just all seemed to fit.

Not having had the push factor to leave the UK has made it difficult at times though. I always thought it was a positive thing - going for positive rather than negative reasons. But it has led to a few 'why are we here and not back home??' moments that can be hard! I deal with it by reminding myself that nothing's permanent, and you never ever know what's around the corner...

[Diny]

Not having had the push factor to leave the UK has made it difficult at times though. I always thought it was a positive thing - going for positive rather than negative reasons. But it has led to a few 'why are we here and not back home??' moments that can be hard! I deal with it by reminding myself that nothing's permanent, and you never ever know what's around the corner...


Ruthyroo - I know exactly what you mean - you have hit the nail directly on the head as far as my own personal feelings are concerned. Good to know I'm not the only one who has these thoughts, I was starting to feel like some kind of social pariah for actually liking the UK.

Diny

[Paul and Linda]

Overall were happier here than in the UK and especially the kids. Everyone misses those we left behind and none of us have committed to staying here forever.

We have done stuff here that would never have been done WHERE WE LIVED in the UK. Surfing, bike rides, swimming pools (outdoor), hundreds of brais (BBQs), I have a great job, the kids do so much at school that it's more like a holiday camp.

On the down side, I travel over 1 1/2 hours a day to and from work, have to get up 5 days a week at 5.15 am

Our house is lovely but poorly insulated.

My job is very well paid for NZ but we still have to budget heavily (missing that child benefit and child tax kickback). Had to go to the docs last week ($60), dentist may be looming, new clothes for winter etc are all gonna add up.

Elec and gas seem very high seeing as though we've had such a long period of fantastic weather, can't afford broadband, sky (which is rubbish) or the "stuff" we used to spend our time buying in the UK. TV itself is chronic, so weve all become bookworms...after all you cant surf, swim and bike it all night every night!

But considering we are managing to get by, it's like living on a holiday camp and going to work and school every day. Now that would cost you a veritable fortune in the UK!

When we hear of the grim weather that the UK has had for the past 5 months since we left, and the thought of still being in my old job, and in our old house......with 3 storey flats recently erected behind them, and the constant car damage, vandalism, pollution and littering, as well as the huge amount of road traffic (need I go on), then it seems silly to think about going back.

My final point is that it seems as though in the UK we either had a few duff teachers for our kids (by comparison to here, we thought they were pretty good while in the UK) or they were just too restricted by the syllabus/budgets and of course the constant testing, but our kids love school here, their homework is interesting, and the stuff that goes on there, family days, friendship days/presentations, fun days....is just endless.

I would feel guilty taking my kids back to the Uk at the mo, maybe things will change, maybe money will get too tight (although it wasn't exactly flowing in the UK), but right now were here and happy we made the move.

Right it's home time (nearly), going to see UB40 tomorrow night a the Bowl of Brooklands, taking a picnic (and possibly some smuggled booze).

Hope you are all fine, sorry I don't write much.

Paul

PS I check up on local (home) stories on line occasionally and this week there was a description of the court case which explained why when we were walking back round to my sister's house last year on new years day to pick up the car, we found a huge pool of blood and a stilletto shoe on the pavement, 20 yards from our front door!

Just got my bonus, (for the 2 months I was here last year!) and it aint gonna be spent on flights back!

Paul

[tottefan]

It'll be interesting to see what NZ is like in 20 years time.

I see where you're coming from Diny, but according to the latest population projections, NZ 's population is only going to reach about 5.1 million by 2055. It's always going to stay pretty sparsely populated, so crime will always be lower than other, more crowded countries. Yet another reason to move there IMO.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

I see where you're coming from Diny, but according to the latest population projections, NZ 's population is only going to reach about 5.1 million by 2055. It's always going to stay pretty sparsely populated, so crime will always be lower than other, more crowded countries. Yet another reason to move there IMO.


Tottefan.

True. But when you look at the state of the NZ youth today (IMHO no better than the youths I personally came across in the UK) it stands to reason that in 20 years time they're going to be just as bad/good as anywhere else in the world. Not wanting to put the blame for all of societies ills on the 'youth of today', I can assure you that you will come across the same amount of crims, knobbers and idiots (per capita) here in NZ as you do anywhere else. But yes, the smaller population obviously means lower crime rates.

I can only draw from experience on this one and I have to repeat that for 'me personally' I haven't noticed any great improvement in mankind on this side of the world.

There's good and bad everywhere, it's up to us to deal with it.

Diny

[Paul & Rach]

There are many reasons for me but going there and seeing how friends have got on over there was a major one. Better climate and freedom for kids....

My kids simply do not enjoy the freedoms I had when I was a kid. We used to play out all day unsupervised from the age of seven with lots of mates... I want my kids to have more of that

[Debbie P.]

[QUOTE=Diny] But when you look at the state of the NZ youth today (IMHO no better than the youths I personally came across in the UK) it stands to reason that in 20 years time they're going to be just as bad/good as anywhere else in the world.

Diny, quick query for you (and any other parent of school-age children). How do NZ parents come across to you, regarding what they think about school & teachers etc. Is there a 'compensation' culture attitude there? I know that kids are basically kids anywhere, but one problem we seem to have in the UK is parents being seriously down on teachers, which is not good for their confidence. Examples include my husband being shouted at by a parent in the street for daring to keep her daughter back for detention on a Friday afternoon (apparently, an extra half an hour 'ruined' their planned weekend away), and my sister being physically attacked by a NINE YEAR OLD boy, pushing him away for her own safety and being told by him that she would be sued by his parent's lawyers (an attitude he obviously picked up from them). My husband recently had to talk down a 16 year old boy who had picked up a chair and was threatening to throw it at a colleague who was 8 months pregnant at the time - his parents' attitude was that he had been mistreated by her because she'd confiscated his mobile phone. I just CANNOT understand how anyone can grow up in a society thinking it's OK to threaten a heavily pregnant woman in that way (or anyone, in fact), or how an adult can seriously think that there's nothing wrong with a boy who does that. Oh, by the way, the boy was not permanently excluded, and Martin's colleague did not return from her maternity leave - another teaching career ruined.

My husband always says he can cope with that kind of thing as long as he feels the parents are on his side, so I'd like to know what impressions you have of parental attitudes to that kind of behaviour over there, and whether the teachers among you can comment on how secure they feel in their jobs.

Re: There's good and bad everywhere, it's up to us to deal with it. - couldn't agree more, but I'm not sure we'd want to move to NZ if Martin is going to get more of the same c*** at work! So we want to be forewarned...

Debbie

[Jaideco]

Sorry to be so late joining this thread, only just noticed it...

The final, final straw?... I don't really know because quite a few more straws had been piled on top of it when I found out about the job going in Wellington.

For me it was just the constant feeling of being on a treadmill in the UK and getting nowhere... For me to get a job anywhere in my field I would have needed to either spend 1-2 hours a day in traffic or live like a monk to be able to afford a home in the centre of town.

I went to the South Island a few years ago and I loved it there so really I didn't need to find a reason to go... just the opportunity.

[Toronto_Kiwi]

Final straw for my husband: he's training for Ironman Canada in August and on his last 1 1/2 hour run (before our Feb NZ trip) the water in his bottle froze solid.

As for me, I'm still not 100% committed to the move even though I'm a citizen. I don't mind Toronto (even the weather is bearable). Part of what's convinced me is reading some of the posts on this forum and realizing how hard it is for most people to emigrate -- and that if we're interested in potentially moving to NZ someday, now is a good time.

[Diny]

[QUOTE=Diny] But when you look at the state of the NZ youth today (IMHO no better than the youths I personally came across in the UK) it stands to reason that in 20 years time they're going to be just as bad/good as anywhere else in the world.

Diny, quick query for you (and any other parent of school-age children). How do NZ parents come across to you, regarding what they think about school & teachers etc. Is there a 'compensation' culture attitude there? I know that kids are basically kids anywhere, but one problem we seem to have in the UK is parents being seriously down on teachers, which is not good for their confidence. Examples include my husband being shouted at by a parent in the street for daring to keep her daughter back for detention on a Friday afternoon (apparently, an extra half an hour 'ruined' their planned weekend away), and my sister being physically attacked by a NINE YEAR OLD boy, pushing him away for her own safety and being told by him that she would be sued by his parent's lawyers (an attitude he obviously picked up from them). My husband recently had to talk down a 16 year old boy who had picked up a chair and was threatening to throw it at a colleague who was 8 months pregnant at the time - his parents' attitude was that he had been mistreated by her because she'd confiscated his mobile phone. I just CANNOT understand how anyone can grow up in a society thinking it's OK to threaten a heavily pregnant woman in that way (or anyone, in fact), or how an adult can seriously think that there's nothing wrong with a boy who does that. Oh, by the way, the boy was not permanently excluded, and Martin's colleague did not return from her maternity leave - another teaching career ruined.

My husband always says he can cope with that kind of thing as long as he feels the parents are on his side, so I'd like to know what impressions you have of parental attitudes to that kind of behaviour over there, and whether the teachers among you can comment on how secure they feel in their jobs.

Re: There's good and bad everywhere, it's up to us to deal with it. - couldn't agree more, but I'm not sure we'd want to move to NZ if Martin is going to get more of the same c*** at work! So we want to be forewarned...

Debbie


Hi Debbie - not sure how qualified I am at answering this for you. My kids go to a rural school which is very laid back (too damn laid back - that's my gripe).

I understand that the inner city schools in the low social economic areas can be pretty bad but I don't have any experience of these.

What you describe in your posting is dreadful - a world gone crazy. I wouldn't even know how to start to tackle that situation.

The only thing I can think of to tell you is this. The NZ people are the same as every other human being on the globe, alot are fantastic, some are low life toe rags. Whittling it down abit to parents, some are wonderful parents, some are a disgrace. Having had a close relationship with NZ for the last 17 years and after living here for 9 months I just don't see any massive improvement in the calibre of mankind over here. I'm not saying folks here are any worse but I'm certainly not saying they are any better either - people are people, good and bad, wherever they happen to be in the world.

Going back to the school issue I would like to stress that I have no concerns about the discipline, the fact that yesterday my boys came home full of tales about a huge 'scrap' on the playground at lunch time didn't really shock me one way or the other - kids are kids, one moment beating 7 colours out of each other, best mates having sleep overs the next. This happened in their school in the UK, why should I be suprised when it happens over here? What did shock us yesterday was when our eldest told us about the class story - about a young boy called Buddy who went camping with his dad and how they decided to have a farting competition in the tent at night. Call me old fashioned but I don't really think that is suitable classroom reading material. Whatever happened to Treasure Island and The Swiss Family Robinson?

There are so many wonderful aspects to school life in NZ, in some areas they have it just right and seem to be light years ahead, in other areas IMHO they seem to be so far off the mark it's tragic. Of course I'm pleased that my boys are happy and settled, they enjoy school life (as much as any 8 & 10 year old will admit to liking school), but they will be the first to tell you that they love the 'no hard stuff' (the words of my 10 year old). Mark and I cast our eyes skywards when the boys tell us what they've been doing at school and we often get told that thier entire day has consisted of 'non academic' subjects. We are fully aware that school life is all about balance, a good combination of '3 R's', sport, art & drama, social studies etc. The quality of work our boys do is generally good (although several terms behind what they would be doing if back in UK - but again, not saying this is a good or bad thing), it's just the quantity of 'academic' studies we have a problem with.

Although this comment may come out sounding abit 'confrontational' please understand that's not what I intend, it's just that I ask this question. When your children are in school over here and if you see an alarming deteriation in their academic skills, their general behaviour is sloppy and nowhere near the high standards they had back in the UK, when you hear that they've spent yet another day doing 'social things', when the only homework they have is 4 - yes 4 words to learn for a spelling test of Friday morning (words such as house, story and which), you see their handwriting reverting to something a 5 year old would produce - oh the list goes on, will you still be waving the banner.

I have to repeat that there are many many things that delight us about our boys education, but the biggie for us is the academic side of things. Maybe we will be told that it's just sooooo important to encourage the 'social and confident' child, and we would agree, but when it's clearly at the detrement of the said childs academic progress I make no apologies for getting 'up tight' about it.

We are constantly told how lucky we are for getting our boys into the school they attend because it's such a good school. If this is good, hell I'd hate to experience bad.

Sorry I've gone off track a little, not actually been able to help you much with your question regarding parents attitudes etc. I don't have any experience there, and I certainly don't have any gripes/worries about the discipline in our boys school. To be honest, if my boys came home saying that they'd been hauled over the coals for doing something bad I'd probably haul them over the coals all over again.

Diny

[tottefan]

Although forums like this can be very useful, it's all down to personal experience.

I belong to quite a few other New Zealand forums and at least 90% of the members of those forums say that they have found that NZers are generally more friendly, respectful etc. However, this doesn't mean that Diny's experiences are wrong. Personally, I found my own experiences of the UK education system nothing short of woeful. Even though I live in an area of high educational attainment, very few kids left school being able write or punctuate the most basic of sentences! Consequently, my experience of the school system in the UK was not good.

Why are people put off of living in countries just on the basis of one person's opinion? It seems absolutely crazy to me. Surely it's up to you to go to a country and find out things for yourself.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

Why are people put off of living in countries just on the basis of one person's opinion? It seems absolutely crazy to me. Surely it's up to people to go to a country and find out things for themselves.


Tottefan.


It seems totally crazy to me too. Who's been put off by who's opinion?

I think if somebody isn't prepared to come here (or anywhere) to find out things for themselves then they're either brave or foolish - depending on which side of the discussion you're looking from.

Forums are for discussion, there's no right and no wrong, we just put our own personal experiences down for others to read/ignore/digest/skip - whatever.

This old (education) chestnut is getting abit tired now. I'm here, my kids are here, we're experiencing the VERY good aspects of school here along with the diabolically inadequate aspects. I'm telling it how it is FOR US. If anybody should decided not to come to NZ simply because they have read that we're not singing the praises of the education system then I suggest they were never cut out for the move in the first place.

Perhaps it's because my children weren't part of that (apparent) vast majority of UK school kids who can't read or write I'm feeling so disappointed with their 'grades' now. Nothing to say I'm right, nothing to say I'm wrong - just telling it how we find it.

Walking the walk is often a million miles away from talking the talk.

Diny

[tottefan]

Who's been put off by who's opinion?

I've heard other people on other forums saying that they've been put off of living in NZ just because of other people's comments. Admittedly, this hasn't happened often as the majority of people seem to be happy with their new life in NZ. Many people complain about the standard of living though.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

Yeah, the standard of living thing can be abit daunting. People manage though, I guess it's a case of learning to live within your/our means, something which us Brits seem unable to do (sweeping generalisation there).

Some items are alot cheaper, some alot more money, I still can't get over the price of paint over here - it's daylight robbery !!!!!! How I wish I'd smuggled a few 10 litre pots of B&Q basic magnolia into the container before it set sail. Another thing I find expensive is lamb, you'd think over here it would be practically given away but the price is on a par with the UK. Fruit & Veg are a good price but sometimes the quality is abit 'iffy'. I hear all the best is exported, I wouldn't be suprised if this is correct.

Petrol is cheaper than UK, if you have time to shop around for your car you can get some good deals too. I find clothing is expensive for the quality and not so much choice but I've never been much more than a jeans kinda girl so it doesn't worry me too much.

Coming over here with a wad of pound notes will make houses seem a very good price. However without that wad homes over here can seem 'out of reach', I sometimes wonder how youngsters get on the property ladder.

It's swings and roundabouts, and putting all the negatives aside I still think this is a wonderful country. IMHO not a patch on rural England - but that's a whole new thread.

Diny

[smitjo]

Thanks Diny for all your comments!
The cost of living thing is one aspect that I am fairly worried about, we haven't had a place to sell over here so will need to get a mortgage to buy a house in NZ. This obviously depends on jobs and salary - hopefully we can earn enough to get a decent house!! However your comments have most definitely not put us off! We really appreciate the honesty on this forum and am sure that when we get to NZ it will help us in the long run. At least we are not going over there with the idea that we are going to better off!(in money terms that is)


Unfortunately young people have a problem getting on the property ladder everywhere - we have first hand experience of this!!! :(

[tottefan]

IMHO not a patch on rural England - but that's a whole new thread.

I'd be interested to know your opinions on this, Diny. Is it because of the lack of olde worldly villages in NZ?


Tottefan

[Diny]

Yeah I think that's it. I love the history of rural England, the 'chocolate box' cottages etc - I really miss the old world architecture.

Although NZ is one of the most beautiful countries I've ever visited, it has no long term history, no ancient buildings, roman forts etc.

Our house here in NZ was built in 1910 and alot of people enthuse about such an old house, however our family home back in England dates back to the mid 1600's - now that's what I call history.

However, just because NZ history isn't 'ancient' doesn't mean I'm not interested, I just long for a few crooked stone walls and thatched roofs.

Diny

[jo b]

Diny

there are plenty of thatched roofs in DV but unfortunately they are on peoples heads!!!

Jo

[Moorf]

I just long for a few crooked stone walls and thatched roofs.


Oh yes!! I so agree - being a history buff as well I do miss it a lot. To compensate I've been reading up about the founding of Chch and Canterbury etc, all very interesting but not quite the same.

Was only talking about that the other day, how we miss a beamed pub with a roaring fire down a single lane hedgerow-lined country lane.... ahhhh, it's something to look forward to for our first trip back next May (we'll have been here 2.5 yrs by then!).

[Diny]

Was only talking about that the other day, how we miss a beamed pub with a roaring fire down a single lane hedgerow-lined country lane.... ahhhh, it's something to look forward to for our first trip back next May (we'll have been here 2.5 yrs by then!).


I'm heading back in 6 weeks for a quick solo trip - will be visiting such pubs (as above) and will relish every creaking floorboard and sloping ceiling in the family home.

I have to admit there's some nice 'bits of history' around here in the Manawatu but it's that OLD stuff I'm missing.

Shall I bring you a bottle of Hobgoblin or Old Peculiar (sp) back?

Diny

[Moorf]

Ohhhh a nice glass of Tanglefoot or Bishops Finger please..... ;) you lucky thing...

[G&K]

More likely than not to have been turned into some theme pub says the cynic in me...

:-p

[Moorf]

Oh no, I know for sure that our ex-local won't ever be... if any of you guys in Scotland know it.. have a wee dram there for me next time... the Tormaukin in Glendevon ....http://www.tormaukin.co.uk/

[Diny]

More likely than not to have been turned into some theme pub says the cynic in me...

:-p

If our 'local' has been turned into a theme pub then on my return I shall run stark naked down K'hape road.

Diny

[Debbie P.]

I've heard other people on other forums saying that they've been put off of living in NZ just because of other people's comments. Admittedly, this hasn't happened often as the majority of people seem to be happy with their new life in NZ. Many people complain about the standard of living though.


Tottefan.

Thanks Diny for your comments. I'm not put off by individual comments at all, but they all help with making your mind up.

Debbie

[Rabbit]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4794198.stm

[Debbie P.]

:laugh