[Sunshine21]

Foolsgold - you are fighting a losing battle here. There are loads of NZ passport holders (both born NZers and persons who have acquired the NZ ppt) living in Australia. We live in Oz by the way, did 3 yrs in NZ, whilst waiting for Oz PR and hightailed it of there. Interestingly we lived in Auckland too and did not have a lot of love for the place. But back to the point of the Kiwis living in Oz most do so for more $$s in their pay packet, lower cost of living, and a better climate. That to many equals a better lifestyle.

The Oz gov and Oz citizens got so sick on NZers coming over here and claiming social benefits whilst lazing around in the sun they removed the right to benefits and the automatic right to Oz PR. You are never going to stop people jumping the Tasman from NZ to Aus as for many Oz is far more attractive - hence raising the NZ citizenship from 3 to 5 years. Until NZ can compete in terms of wages, careers, and infrastructure it is going to constantly lose migrants to it's neighbouring Oz. I know Oz is a sore point with NZers but for many (us included) it really is better as a place to live.

by the way the majority of inhabitents don't live in a heat ravaged desert, nor are we infested with poisonous snakes or spiders.

Come over, try it, you'll never go back!!!!

[foolsgold99]

Nothing against OZ, may live there at some point in the future myself, who can say ? If I wanted to obtain Oz PR / Citizenship I could do without any probs, we have more than enough points, or we only need 2 more years for NZ passports, we got in here before the rules changed.

My only point was just that to come to NZ with the sole intention of leaving in 3/5 years with citizenship, is a bit dishonest, why not go straight to Aus ?? I can only assume they don't have the points, doing it this way cheats both countries.

[Sunshine21]

why not go straight to Aus ?? I can only assume they don't have the points, doing it this way cheats both countries.

You are right and that was why Oz removed the Australian work rights of NZ PR holders, too many persons were obtaining the easier NZ PR, stopping in NZ to get a NZ residents stamp and then going to OZ to live and work. The Oz government thought by keeping it solely as NZ cits who can work in Oz this would stop this problem but the migrants just got NZ PR sat it out in NZ for 3 yrs for NZ citizenship and then hopped over Oz to work and live. Hence the 5 yrs citizenship. Be very interesting to see of this does stop the flow of NZ migrants over to OZ or whether they simply sit it out for 5 years and then head over to Oz.

You are fortunate that you can get PR in both, like we did, but for many Oz really is a harder destination, hence the stop off in NZ to get citizenship.

You can't really blame people as they are just doing what is best for them and their family. You only get one life and people want to live it the best they can so if it means Australia via the back door of NZ then they are going to do it. Only way really to stop it is to no longer give NZers the right to live and work in Oz, or only extend this to born and bred NZers. On a personal level I would remove the right of persons who have gained the NZ passport through immigration from being able to ever just hop over the ditch to live and work as by circumventing Oz's immigration process I think Oz is opening itself up to potential terrorist activity, plus if you can't get in under the OZ governments criteria, to be honest Oz doesn't really want you. Harsh but true. However, I am sure there are wider trade implications plus the history between the 2 countries to consider.

[Diny]

Come over, try it, you'll never go back!!!!


I know that comment wasn't aimed at me but I'd love to (again) throw my two penneth in here.

I have Oz PR, I have lived there, I have also visited every far corner of the place (excluding Tazzie).

I wouldn't go back there to live for anything. Parts of it are scenic - that's about it. A dreadful country with a huge amount (not all) of matching people.

On the other hand, in an odd kind of way I guess I can understand people wanting to live there - nowt as funny as folk and all that.

I think the 2 big issues on this thread are:

a: Stating that it's almost impossible to enter the USA when clearly it isn't.

b: Openly admitting that NZ is being used as a quickie back door into Oz. No matter what the reasoning behind that it's still immoral (sp) - and illegal too (taking into account the declarations that you make when you become an NZ Citizen).

Anyway - onward and upward. It's a lovely day here in NZ, just the kind of day that makes me thankful I no longer live in Oz !!!!!!

Diny

[Sunshine21]

Good for you. I wouldn't go back to NZ to live if you paid me. Off to enjoy the sun too.

[foolsgold99]

On a personal level I would remove the right of persons who have gained the NZ passport through immigration from being able to ever just hop over the ditch to live and work as by circumventing Oz's immigration process I think Oz is opening itself up to potential terrorist activity, plus if you can't get in under the OZ governments criteria, to be honest Oz doesn't really want you

With the exception of the terrorist statement, which is pretty meaningless, I'd agree with everything you've written, but I'd only apply it to people who gained NZ citizenship over the age of 21. for folks that go over to NZ as kids, it'd be unfair

We are pretty fortunate that with our quals and my skill set, we could live pretty much anywhere in the world. We actually like Auckland a lot, and I think it's perhaps the best city in the world to live in at the moment.

Barcalona or San Diego would be the only real alternatives for me at present, although I do hear nice things about brisbane.

[Hannah]

When I walk along the beach and there's no one else there, or I drive to the local nature reserve and my car is the only one in the car park, when rush hour means there are six or seven cars waiting at the next set of lights instead of 2 or 3, and when the queue on Christmas Eve in Pac N Save is no different from the queue on any other evening I know why I want to stay here (i.e. in New Plymouth)!

When I see my children come home from school looking relaxed and saying they can't wait to go back the next day and parent's evening just focuses on the positive comments instead of all the bad, when I look at how their confidence has grown since we arrived here and i see the huge range of social, leisure and sporting opportunities for my children to take part in at little or no cost, I realise why this is good for them too.

Sure, NZ doesn't suit everybody - but right now it suits me just fine!

[foolsgold99]

bit off topic, but interesting article in the paper this morning


Big rise in Kiwis leaving for Australia

22 February 2006 http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/images/null.gifBy SUE ALLEN

It seems the lure of Australia's hot weather, golden beaches, higher paying jobs and better opportunities remains irresistible to New Zealanders.



Statistics New Zealand figures issued yesterday, show 22,500 more citizens left New Zealand for Australia than returned last year - up almost 34 per cent on 2004.

It is the highest net loss to Australia since a net 24,600 left in 2001.

Overall, New Zealand gained 7000 people more than it lost during 2005, about half the 15,100 gain of 2004.

National's finance spokesman, John Key, said the number of New Zealanders voting with their feet and moving to Australia was alarming.

"The Government continues to be in a state of denial about the increasing competitiveness of the Australian economy," he said.

"Quite clearly the massive tax reductions that (Australian Treasurer) Peter Costello has been signalling in Australia are continuing to attract more and more skilled Kiwis."

His view was echoed by Business New Zealand chief executive Phil O'Reilly, who said the latest figures showed how important it was for New Zealand to become more competitive to attract skilled new migrants.

"People are leaving for Australia because Australia is doing better than us at productivity, and that plays out in things like better infrastructure, higher-paying jobs and better opportunities," he said.

New Zealand needed to "chase down" Australia and take the lead on productivity to right that balance.

Labour Immigration Minister David Cunliffe said the movement of people between Australia and New Zealand depended on the relative strength of either economy.

"The Government is not worried about that data at all. But we are working with a number of programmes to ensure that New Zealand is a winner from net migration flows." Examples of that were the Government's push to encourage qualified expats to return to New Zealand and an increase in the number of skilled migrants, particularly where there were skill shortages.

Mr Cunliffe said that approach resulted in higher numbers of professionals moving here.

Yesterday's figures showed professionals recorded the largest net inflow of all groups, with 1500 more architects, engineers, health professionals, nurses, teachers and business, legal and computing experts arriving than leaving.

However, there was a net loss of 85 technicians and associated professionals, 630 service and sales workers, and 638 plant and machine operators.

Migration peaked in 2002 when 38,200 more people came to live here than left.

Westpac senior economist Nick Tuffley said the high number of migrants in 2002 and 2003 drove economic growth through the housing boom and consumer spending. It also provided much needed labour.

"It's like we had a big tail wind for the economy in 2002 and 2003, but it's gradually been dying away."

[Rabbit]

I guess it is horses for courses, what you want and what you need.

Some people want beach, sun, sand, materialism, some people want balance and tranquility in their lives.

I have worked in the States, Europe, and UK and for a very short while in NZ on an assignment.

NZ offers me the kind of balance that I need in my life, I like the people, the culture and the environment. It is not perfect, but nowhere is. I do think though living in Wellington, I will be able to strike a balance between getting away from it all, and still being able to dip in to a multi-cultural diverse capital city when I want to. Not to mention the pleasure of a thirty minute commute.

Diny, it took me three hours to drive 25 miles from my little Shropshire village to Wolverhampton train station.

NZ gives me the opportunity to design my own life, the way I want it and achieve the balance I seek.

I have not been to Australia yet, but from what I have seen on the Telly it looks a little like Brookside or Neighbours, perhaps a bit brash with larger louts? - Something I do not want, though I must admit if Kylie asked me I would marry her tomorrow.

Sitting outside LA airport watching the traffic go by, the chat with the (Russian) American immigrant taxi driver explaining how people worship the dollar and full-on materialism - sorry but not what I want or need at the moment.

NZ is right for me at the moment, personally and professionally who knows perhaps Italy later on.

Life is a journey and NZ is my next stop.

[dawn]

though I must admit if Kylie asked me I would marry her tomorrow.

Sorry to thread jack but, Kylie is Welsh, she's from the same town I grew up in, her gran lives just down the road from my gran.

[Rabbit]

Sorry to thread jack but, Kylie is Welsh, she's from the same town I grew up in, her gran lives just down the road from my gran.

Thanks Dawn, I never knew that, spent six weeks working in Swansea but never got to meet Zetta-Jones, even though I did stay in Mumbles.

I am probably in the Duddly Moore age group anyway, my other half probably owes me a slap.

Got the same problem as you, that you experienced with enlarged red blood cells (MCV) and the B12 thing, only 2 points over but still worried and awaiting results.

Thanks for your diary, it gives me courage and the hope that everything is going to work out OK.

Sharing our thoughts, challenges and aspirations here helps us all, in so many ways, sometimes not allways realised.

[dawn]

Thanks Dawn, I never knew that, spent six weeks working in Swansea but never got to meet Zetta-Jones, even though I did stay in Mumbles.

I am probably in the Duddly Moore age group anyway, my other half probably owes me a slap.

Got the same problem as you, that you experienced with enlarged red blood cells (MCV) and the B12 thing, only 2 points over but still worried and awaiting results.

Thanks for your diary, it gives me courage and the hope that everything is going to work out OK.

Sharing our thoughts, challenges and aspirations here helps us all, in so many ways, sometimes not allways realised.

I've sent you a PM

[All_Blacks_Fan]

Sorry to thread jack but, Kylie is Welsh, she's from the same town I grew up in, her gran lives just down the road from my gran.

So we can add her to the list of Aussie Entertainers born outside of Oz along with (but not limited to):

Russell Crowe (NZ)
Nicole Kidman (Hawaii, USA)
Mel Gibson (USA)
All of AC/DC but the drummer (UK born except the Oz Born Drummer)
Naomi Watts (UK)
Hugo Weaving (Nigeria)