New Zealand - Why New Zealand?

Debbie

16th February 2006, 12:25 AM

We needed a place that was english speeking, where we could get jobs, had compatable education for the kids, offered an outdoor life.
We didn't want a place I would feel unsafe, very cold or very hot and Im not keen on any animal that can kill me.
It's all down to personal perception, we considered the places that could offer us the things we did want and then discounted them based on how prevalant we percieved the things we didn't want to be in each place.
With the above list we discounted USA and SA straight away, Ireland Canada and OZ just didn't match as well as NZ. We also considered just staying put and moving to a different location in the UK , (an oftern forgotten option IMHO) but we felt the time was right for us and we wanted to take on the challange.

I've just re-read this and it makes me sound very cold and calculating, we did do the emotional 'for the kids' , wanderful scenery bit but when it came down to it I made a list. It's a huge step and I wanted to believe that I'd been practical about it. The 'reality' threads gave me a doubts as well, it was good to look back at those lists and just confirm that everything still held up.
For us the the main bit is the want of the challange and the right time to take it. NZ just happens to be the best place for us at this time.
Debbie

katandbob

16th February 2006, 12:46 AM

We needed a place that was english speeking, where we could get jobs, had compatable education for the kids, offered an outdoor life.
We also considered just staying put and moving to a different location in the UK , (an oftern forgotten option IMHO) but we felt the time was right for us and we wanted to take on the challange.

I've just re-read this and it makes me sound very cold and calculating, we did do the emotional 'for the kids' , wanderful scenery bit but when it came down to it I made a list. It's a huge step and I wanted to believe that I'd been practical about it. The 'reality' threads gave me a doubts as well, it was good to look back at those lists and just confirm that everything still held up.
For us the the main bit is the want of the challange and the right time to take it. NZ just happens to be the best place for us at this time.
Debbie

we thought about the relocating to a more scenic part of the UK but then the £ against the NZD raises the issue and in the end relocating half way around the world worked out cheaper!

oh and the Boys didnt want to stay in the UK any more than we did! so it made our mind up to take a leap of faith and give it ago....oh and as Debbie said they speak the same lingo.... ;) and drive on the same side of the road

tigerlily

16th February 2006, 02:55 AM

Aus has too many poisonous things for me (raising two young boys)
Canada is REALLY cold! I wanted somewhere with less winter
I actually considered England, but it seems to have too much terrorism, and that is part of what is making me leave the US

Oregonkiwi

16th February 2006, 03:34 AM

There's an article in the NZ Herald you might find interesting, about a survey of what recent migrants like and dislike about NZ:

"New Zealand - Pros and cons

Likes
* Climate, natural beauty, clean environment (selected by 85 per cent).
* Friendly people and relaxed lifestyle (79 per cent).
* Recreation and leisure activities (65 per cent).
* Safety from crime and violence (59 per cent).
* Low population density (54 per cent).

Dislikes
* Distance from home (40 per cent).
* Bad driving/lack of road safety (35 per cent).
* Poor public transport (32 per cent).
* Poor quality of housing (22 per cent).
* High cost of living (22 per cent).
* Complicated tax system (19 per cent). "

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10368620

smitjo

16th February 2006, 03:48 AM

I grew up in South Africa and always loved the Southern Hemisphere life. However security is a huge issue in South Africa which is why I wouldn't return there. NZ looked like it had everything we were looking for - the outdoor lifestyle, beaches, farming, tranquility, climate (not too hot and not too cold) and scenery. We decided to apply for PR and if they accepted us then we knew that it was the place for us! Received our PR in Oct and make our big move to NZ in Oct this year! Cannot wait now.

Jaideco

16th February 2006, 04:07 AM

A variety of factors for me...
Although I enjoy living in the UK, I felt it was important to live in another country to satisfy my own curiosity. The countries that I had seriously considered living in previously were USA, France, Germany and NZ. Australia and Canada are missing through neglect, not through any kind of negative opinions of these places.

New Zealand seemed particularly attractive because I had been on holiday there previously and really enjoyed it, because I had known a lot of New Zealand citizens and got on well with them, because the primary language was English and the climate was temperate. The clincher really came when I was offered a job out there out of the blue, with this opportunity I just couldn't resist. I know that there are negatives as well as positives but the way I see it, just because I am going to NZ now doesn't mean that I cannot try my second choice in a couple of years if it just doesn't work out.

dawn

16th February 2006, 04:35 AM

Well, I choose NZ kinda by default, fell in love and married a kiwi :D He took me to NZ for a holiday and that was it, fell inlove with the country too.

We were originally going to go back in 2020, but we got so fed up with life in the UK, that we decided to bring it forward.

We want a better life, an outdoor life, a safer life, a more chilled out life! (I've never been so relaxed in my life as those holidays we spent in NZ).

I guess the biggest reason is because it felt like home, it reminds me of Wales in a few ways and besides all that, it just feels right. The timing is perfect for us, the kids are 11 & 12 now, so can finish school out there and by the time they do they will be citizens :D

I really hope I'm not seeing this all through rose-tinted glasses! I know there are bad points, but the good far outweight them for us.

jim&alma

16th February 2006, 06:07 AM

Because I married a Kiwi. Doubt I would ever have ventured to these parts had I not married him. Glad we came but can't see us growing old here - it sure ain't the 'be all and end all'. Mind you - we've lived in Oz too, NZ beats that place hands down.

Diny

Hi Diny!

What does NZ have over Oz? I'm very interested coz it has also been on our shortlist but I didn't 'research' about it much coz I was already sold to the idea of moving to NZ.

Diny

16th February 2006, 06:13 AM

the way I see it, just because I am going to NZ now doesn't mean that I cannot try my second choice in a couple of years if it just doesn't work out.

In my humble opinion this is a very sensible attitude to take. I would recommend everybody to come out and give it a try.

I spent many holidays here over the 15 years before we came out here to live. No matter how much you feel you know the country, holidaying here is 100% different to actually living here.

I'm finding this thread very interesting, reading about peoples 'real' deep rooted reasons for coming here - and I'm impressed by the amount of research some people are putting in. Once again - IMHO - there's no such thing as too much research.

I'm aware that I sometimes sound a tad negative about NZ but actually I'm not. I love it here, everything works well for us and I would wave the immigration banner any day of the week. But sometimes I get very confused when I read all the 'land of milk and honey' ideas that are posted. I find that the reality of living in NZ is much the same as living anywhere else in the world - simply adjust the demographics and you could be anywhere.

The scenery is fantastic, but between the breathtaking vistas it's just like anywhere else. Thankfully the good points greatly outweigh the bad, but the bad points can drag (me) down. My 2 big gripes ....... housing and education. Try as I might I remain totally unimpressed with both.

So - I know I've gone off-topic a little, but summing up, come on over, it's a wonderful place. I'm sure you'll all find what you're looking for, even though there will be a spattering of negatives - but that's life.

Diny

jim&alma

16th February 2006, 06:22 AM

jim&alma

16th February 2006, 06:32 AM

My 2 big gripes ....... housing and education. Try as I might I remain totally unimpressed with both.

I just asked Debbie about education but please give me your thoughts as well since you seem to have formed a solid opinion already. I've read that a lot of students go to NZ for further studies which sounds positive, but I haven't read anything that specifically commended NZ academic standards vs other countries.

Regards, Alma

ruthyroo

16th February 2006, 06:50 AM

Honestly? Compared to most other countries that we could have considered (Oz, Canada, France) it was dead easy for both of us to get a job in NZ (lots of quals, shortage occupations), the immigration visa process was very straighforward as a result, neither of us had been here before and it is about as far from Scotland as we could get without actually leaving the planet (not that we wanted to get away from there specifically - but if you're looking for an adventure, might as well go as far as possible...). We wanted to explore this side of the world and from the UK, NZ seemed the simplest option.

Making the decision to come here hasn't been the challenge - deciding to stay here has been! It's been difficult and there are things I would have done differently. Like some, we are enjoying it for now, making the most of the chance to live here for a while - but I can't see us growing old (or even middle aged!) here. Like Diny says, life is much the same everywhere. You take you with you wherever you go.

StevieD

16th February 2006, 06:53 AM

Never met a thick Kiwi, although I am sure there are plenty - but I have had plenty of opportunity to witness the failures of the UK education system. Sure it is as laid back as it's people are, and I think a lot of people tend to be put off by the amount of sport on offer. But what is happening in the UK now? Schools are being turned in to specialist "sports" colleges. So I am sure there are pros and cons with the education system like everywhere else. We will just have to wait and see :)

Diny

16th February 2006, 06:53 AM

Hi Diny!

What does NZ have over Oz? I'm very interested coz it has also been on our shortlist but I didn't 'research' about it much coz I was already sold to the idea of moving to NZ.

Again, OZ has some wonderful points. We lived in both Melbourne and Darwin (far Northern Territory). The climate in Melbourne was wonderful, hot summers and mild winters. I only ever came face to face with one MASSIVE spider all the time I was there - but it was a horrifying expereince !!!! Our time in Darwin was amazing - living in the topics is something I would recommend having a go at. Heat like you've never known, 98% humidity which drags you d..o..w..n. When the wet season comes and the torrential rains starts you can actually see people out in the downpour soaking it up. Have you ever heard the expression 'going troppo'? I've lived it - it's real - and it's wierd.

But - down to the basics of actually living in OZ. We were there pre-kids so the education system wasn't an issue for us. However, from what I saw of it and from what I gathered from other ex-pat friends who had children in school out there, it was far from 'good'. Naturally you're going to meet good and bad folks wherever you are in the world, I found the good/bad split to be a close 50/50 thing which can be abit depressing at times. Meet a friendly Aussie and you have a friend for life - meet one of the 'geee mate we're the best in the world' Aussies and the experience will stay with you for life. It's far too sweeping to say that Aussies are 'educationally challenged' but MENSA members they ain't !!!!!!

The wages out there (for us anyway) were fantastic - I understand that the general rate of pay across the board is far superior to here in NZ. The housing was great - purpose built which means a great deal now I'm living in a country where they are not. It's 15 years since we lived there so I would imagine alot has changed, but at the time the cost of living was very attractive - we never once went overdrawn (and that's saying something for us).

I think speaking financially, OZ is/was a far better place to be - but that would be it. The 'old chestnut' about Aussies being the friendliest people in the world is simply not true - a far too sweeping statement. I'm sure there's others here who have spent abit of time in Oz who have different opinions to mine but I'm just telling it how I found it. We plan a holiday there soon to see my bro in law in Sydney which will be good, but as for living there again ......NEVER.

Diny

Diny

16th February 2006, 07:18 AM

I just asked Debbie about education but please give me your thoughts as well since you seem to have formed a solid opinion already. I've read that a lot of students go to NZ for further studies which sounds positive, but I haven't read anything that specifically commended NZ academic standards vs other countries.

Regards, Alma

Hubby and I were talking about this at length last night (albeit over MSN as he's in Egypt). All I can do is relay my findings which aren't necessarily the findings of anybody else.

My boys started school here last July. Naturally we cut them a huge amount of slack, moving from one side of the globe to the other would obviously have some bearing on their situation.

They both settled in quickly and made new friends and seemed happy.

My biggest gripe is this. The small amount of actual academic work they do is fine. Not any worse or better to what they did in the UK - just totally different. But we expected that - it's a different country !! BUT .... the AMOUNT of academic studies they do is minimal. A stupid amount.

I have a huge problem with this 'character building' idea. IMHO schools should have a certain amount of input into the way a 'child' develops socially and how their confidence develops but the bulk of that 'job' lies with the parents and family. I send my children to school to learn how to read and write, to study maths, history, geography etc etc ..... NOT to be told that kicking a ball around a field will make them a morally better person. I feel that the split between academic subjects and 'social/sports' subjects is way out of proportion. IMHO there's simply not enough time spent doing 'real' school work.

It's all well and good by throwing in the opinion of 'ah but the children are so happy and relaxed' .... well of course they are. Kids will follow the line of least resistance. If school is hour after hour of kicking balls around, drawing pictures and watching videos it stands to reason they're going to be happy - heck I would be !!!!

I know this makes me sound like some kind of Victorian task master - I'm not. I just feel that the small amount of perfectly good academic tuition they get is simply not enough - there needs to be less 'team building' and more getting down to the brass tacks of the 3 R's.

I put this to anybody who's going to leap on my back at this one. If you saw your two acadmically average children fall back several steps in their education in spite of being in one of the areas top (state) schools, would you not be just a touch frustrated? We are so 'disgruntled' with the education they are getting here that we are now seriously considering sending them to a fee paying school where they offer a far more balanced education.

Diny

Questor

16th February 2006, 07:36 AM

For us, I think it was the fact that it's somewhere I've always wanted to be, and we wanted a change of lifestyle than that which we have here in the UK - NZ seems to offer the nearest to what we are looking for, and of course the fact that we are outdoor people at heart just swung it for us.
Oz - we considered (for about 5 minutes) but Catie lived out there when she was small, and there just seems to be far more arrogant Aussies out there than there are arrogant Kiwis - and that's not just due to the relative populations!! :)
Canada would be nice, but it's that little bit too close to the US, and without meaning to disparage any Americans, the way your country is being run at the moment scares me somewhat!

Broadly I think similar to what most people have said, but NZ is where we want to be!
Of course we know there are negatives, there are always going to be, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun or satisfying knowing that you can overcome these, it just makes you feel all the better for having actually done it!

Debbie

16th February 2006, 07:39 AM

Alma,
We are not in NZ yet so I have no personal experience of the schooling.
I asked NZ friends who have kids in UK school how they thought the experience matched up, I asked on this forum about special needs education, (I'm dyslexic so there is a chance my son will also be) and I compared the curriculum from the NZIS welcome guild to the UK curriculum and the key principles the teachers here tell me they follow. The curriculum seems a good match to the UK so I guess if we come back my kids should be fairly able to settel back into a UK school.
I heard no horror stories about NZ education, personally I like the stronger emphasis on sport and I kind of feel that you get good and bad everywhere. I have just done the rounds of our local schools in the UK in case we haven't moved by the start of the school yr and I get the sence that, apart from a very obviously bad school, most schools are OK and what makes them great is how well they fit with your child. In NZ we will just have to look for a school that's a right fit for them. ( I may be compleatly wrong in this assumption, I have no experience in teaching and my eldest starts school this yr).
There are teachers on the forum who would probably be able to answer questions you might have.
Debbie

Debbie

16th February 2006, 07:49 AM

Diny posted whilst I was putting the kids to bed and sending my reply and i have to say whilst i like the idea of more sport, (it seems to be the thing that has been cut in the UK to make room for the constant assessments GMent now require) I will be keeping a more watchfull eye on the accademic / life skill balance.
Debbie

Moorf

16th February 2006, 09:08 AM

For all the reasons already mentioned.. and because it's here and life's too short. If we don't like it in 5 yrs time, we'll move on. For now, it's home and we're loving it. :nice1

Smiler

16th February 2006, 10:14 AM

For lots of the reasons above and because we didn't fancy the US, Oz, Canada or France. I also put my foot down when OH was offered a job in Saudi.

We had already started our long term plan of moving further and further out in the UK and we were heading for the coast.

NZ felt less crowded, the weather suits us, along with the outdoorsy life and because we wanted to experience a life different to our UK slog. Of course certain elements of our NZ life are the same but they would have been where ever we moved. (I'm just pleased not to have to learn another language). We also want to travel more to the Pacific Islands and can do so much easier from here.

But like Moorf says because it's here and we could! We can go anywhere really but for the moment it is home and we are loving it too.

Deborah and proud to be a member of the "we did it' gang, not the 'We nearly did that' one

kiwidollie

16th February 2006, 11:07 AM

We travelled to NZ on holiday in 2004 and felt at home there. We talked endlessly about the possibility of moving there until it got to the point where me and hubby sat down and said look we either do this or we shut up about it and get on with our lives here in the UK - so here we are with a bedroom full of boxes, the shippers have been in today and packed up our house and we fly out a week on Friday.

We want a better, cleaner life for our two kids and we want to live in a place that is not packed to the gills with people fighting for a bit of space to call their own.

We think and hope that NZ is the place for us but only time will tell. We never seriously considered moving anywhere else - there are things that we love about the UK but I can't see how things will improve here in the present climate.

I am trying to be realistic and look at NZ without my rose tinted glasses so that we won't be too disappointed when the housing isn't up to UK standards and such but hey, you only live once, and at least we won't wake up old one day and say "do you remember when we nearly moved to New Zealand, I wonder what would have happened if we had gone................................

DrPhred

16th February 2006, 11:32 AM

My wife says I want to go to NZ because of Lord of the Rings...

But it was between Canada, Australia and NZ.
Canada lost because it was to close to USA and we want to get out of this madhouse. And to cold!
Australia lost out due the big nasty things that can kill you (wife is dealy afaraid of bugs) and being to like USA.
NZ won because of the climate, the low population, the lifestyle and being failrly liberal. And being a good place to raise our boys.
And it's -12C here right now. And getting colder. And it's going to snow 13cm tomorrow!

moosee

16th February 2006, 12:17 PM

Martin's job here in the uk annouced site closure a year ago and we looked at the job situation here and found that even though he is a fully qualified mechanical engineer/fitter the wages were still pretty poor. He would still have to work 6 days aweek plus evening overtime for us to pay steep mortage, plus he had just done 18 months solidly on nightshift. The other option which is well paid for his job would be to work contract anywhere in uk, but that would mean him being away from home min of 6wks at a time and then the kids would miss him so. Even though latter option was very well paid we still felt it wasn't for us as a family and decided to look further afield and NZ seemed to offer more in the way of life style for us than other countries, we also felt that NZ wasn't so commercialised as others, and the most important factor was that we felt our children would fair better here in the way of safety and allow them to become children once again.

We also felt Uk was slowly disappearing up Americas backside and this alone was bringing UK into too many conflicting and terrorising situations. 'What Bush can do Blair can do Better' Vice Versa !!!

We also have friends in NZ one has been there 9yrs and the other 3 yrs and they are loving it.

We feel the world is our oyster, but we do realise that NZ may not be for us until we get there this year but if not then K sera sera, as the saying goes.
We feel that if we don't expect too much to start with then we won't be too disappointed, but the thought of no mortage sounds good to me.

sorry to ramble so!!!
;)
Anna

Bruckner

16th February 2006, 01:45 PM

We actually looked into Australia first but stood no chance. On a whim I looked at the NZIS site, took the test, passed and thought "Why not?" I started doing research, liked what we saw and submitted our EOI. Now we're waiting to hear about PR and should know something this month.

Emily

jo b

16th February 2006, 01:59 PM

Well, where do I start. For us it was very much a case of we had talked about it for 4 years as Ian has a brother there. I said eventually that I am tired of talking it and if we don't do it now I don't want to talk about emigrating ever again. Having visited the place a few times we knew what it was like here.
Having a young girl aged nine trying to dress like a 16 year old because that's all you can buy in most of the Uk shops, talking about boys and the magazines which were the equivalent to Tammy mag running articles on your first kiss (aimed at 7-10 years olds) was one thing that puched me to the edge. Watching teenager walk to Senior school throwing crips packets and cans of cola on the pavement so it looked like the wind had taken the top layer off the landfill was another.

So OZ too many Spiders, other parts of UK - still same commercial crap i.e. trying to get your kids to grow up too quick and then everyone complains about them when these mini adults can't handle it and go off the rails. Spain etc. language barrier, and too close to beckham mania etc Canada too cold, USA - NO WAY.

So NZ it is, I like Diny have a few reservations on the education system having removed my kids from a private school in the UK, so I am considering that option here too.

So NZ here I am, also I can't see myself growing old here but that's not to say I wouldn't settle in another part of NZ

Jo

foolsgold99

16th February 2006, 02:14 PM

I was watching Xena, Warrior Princess one day, and though that's the place for me.

But to be serious, the key thing for me was finding somewhere with much less extermes of night and day in summer / winter. where we lived in Scotland, days in winter would be stupidly short, light well after 9:00am, and pitch dark before 4:00pm in december, 7 hours of daylight, just didn't cut it for me. I got serioulsy depressed with each winter getting worse than the previous one. i wanted to grow a nice garden, vines, avo's, citrus etc. needed the climate.

Glasgow was 55 degrees north, I figured, I needed something between 30 and 40 degrees, either north or south. In simple money terms, it needed to be English speaking, in order for me to earn money.

Canada - too far noth, short days and cold.

USA - we'd spent a year doing US imigration in 2000, got visas, but job offer fell it bits very late in process. Too many mental scars.

RSA - Crime was too much of an issue

Aussie - Neither of us have a criminal record, it's still required, right ??

NZ - Auckland is 37 degrees south, exactly in the zone we needed, english speaking, on the skills list.

It's all good eh ?

jim&alma

16th February 2006, 07:05 PM

My wife says I want to go to NZ because of Lord of the Rings...

amen to that :laugh
Seriously, although we've been contemplating about moving, NZ never came up til we saw Lord of the Rings. So hurrah to the movie for making us see the light. Otherwise, we might be freezing our butts off in Canada a year from now or so.

jim&alma

16th February 2006, 07:41 PM

I have a huge problem with this 'character building' idea. IMHO schools should have a certain amount of input into the way a 'child' develops socially and how their confidence develops but the bulk of that 'job' lies with the parents and family. I send my children to school to learn how to read and write, to study maths, history, geography etc etc ..... NOT to be told that kicking a ball around a field will make them a morally better person. I feel that the split between academic subjects and 'social/sports' subjects is way out of proportion. IMHO there's simply not enough time spent doing 'real' school work.

It's all well and good by throwing in the opinion of 'ah but the children are so happy and relaxed' .... well of course they are. Kids will follow the line of least resistance. If school is hour after hour of kicking balls around, drawing pictures and watching videos it stands to reason they're going to be happy - heck I would be !!!!

This reminds me of a prestigious private school my mom and I were debating about which I think basically works along the same principles. During the early years, kids spend most of the time just playing while incorporating basic lessons but it's primarily play. And they use nature as the backdrop as much as possible, their teachers don't wear any makeup and they ask the parents not to let the kids watch tv, or very minimal if any. As they progress into gradeschool, they teach reading, basic math etc etc but they don't bombard them with heavy stuff that we had to do. I think that stuff is done in highschool.

Anyway, their logic is that the brain is still developing rapidly during the early years so kids have to be allowed to be kids to learn and their primary tool of learning is play. When their brains are ready, they will be able to absorb so much more than the 'normally' educated child who was 'forced' to learn. My mom talked to one parent who admits that she was really worried coz it seemed that her daughter was falling behind her friends' kids but eventually her daughter caught up and she ended doing better in college than the others.

Mind you, I'm still not sold on the idea but it's something to think about.

Alma

Diny

17th February 2006, 06:12 AM

That's very interesting Alma, thanks for posting that.

Sunshine21

17th February 2006, 08:40 AM

I am quite surprised at people's responses. I would have thought one of the big answers to 'why NZ' is because majority of persons can get into NZ easier and quicker than any other english speaking country.

I am amazed people even thought of the US when unless you marry a US PR or US cit, have incredibly skillset (neuro surgeon), get sponsored by your company and pass an excruiating difficult labour market assessment and then you just get a work visa, have a $1 million plus dollars to invest- you have not got a hope in hell getting to the US. You can not migrant indepently to the US.

Canada independent migration process stands at about 2 years processing times at present. Oz is about 12 months and has a higher points / skills assessment process.

So I think NZ for many really is the easiest and quickest option.

Stu

17th February 2006, 09:48 AM

No, NZ is a terrible place, I certainly would never want to go there. Everything is awful, from the terrible food, lousy shopping, lack of any decent products like shampoos, clothes etc, appalling weather and lousy t.v.

Nope, the best place in the world to live is exactly where you are, at home and most comfortable, nowhere else is ever the same at all.

Is Aussie better? hell yes, in some ways. Is Canada better, oh yeah, way better, in some ways. Is the US the best, well, quite possibly it could be too. NZ? The Pits mate, I'd never go there, truly awful place.
Hope this helps,
Stu.

Bubbles

17th February 2006, 09:55 AM

Nice one Stu. :nice1
Now let me guess where you're posting from. ;)

John

Avalon

17th February 2006, 10:48 AM

My wife says I want to go to NZ because of Lord of the Rings...

I can think of dafter reasons ;)

For us - we came here on Honeymoon, and are definatly in the "Fell in love with NZ" category. It was more the sence of "space" - and this still clinches it for me - even though there are things i find tricky to get used to.

As to actually making the decision - well - our biggest thing was the sheer number of people who, when we mentioned it - said "We thought about it - decided not to go - and now we are kicking ourselves". Hubby also had a wake up call at work, with the knowledge that there were guys who had worked in IBM for more years than we had been alive! Boy was that a scary thought. He didnt want to hit 55 and STILL be doing the same old-same old.

It came down to: we had a chance. NZ was there, and scary though it was - we did not want to look back in 20-30 years time and regret not taking the chance. Hopefully - it will work out wonderfully - and if not - we can feel proud that we gave it a go and expanded our horizons.

jo b

17th February 2006, 12:12 PM

This reminds me of a prestigious private school my mom and I were debating about which I think basically works along the same principles. During the early years, kids spend most of the time just playing while incorporating basic lessons but it's primarily play. And they use nature as the backdrop as much as possible, their teachers don't wear any makeup and they ask the parents not to let the kids watch tv, or very minimal if any. As they progress into gradeschool, they teach reading, basic math etc etc but they don't bombard them with heavy stuff that we had to do. I think that stuff is done in highschool.

Anyway, their logic is that the brain is still developing rapidly during the early years so kids have to be allowed to be kids to learn and their primary tool of learning is play. When their brains are ready, they will be able to absorb so much more than the 'normally' educated child who was 'forced' to learn. My mom talked to one parent who admits that she was really worried coz it seemed that her daughter was falling behind her friends' kids but eventually her daughter caught up and she ended doing better in college than the others.

Mind you, I'm still not sold on the idea but it's something to think about.

Alma

Alma,

I watched a documentary on a school in London run by a high ranking army soldier (don't know what rank but he spoke with marbles in his mouth if you get the picture), but boy did he talk common sense. The first thing he taught kids was how to swim. One hour per day fro the age of 5, then he moved on to other lifesaving skill, using nature and play as the foundation of learning. To quote him "There is no use learing a child how to add up at the age of five to find out he drowned at the age of 6". I was amazed at how kids from this school turn out. They nearly all had professional careers.

I think that there is always a balance. Sweden is very similer in it's approach tos chooling they only atart between 6/7 and that's only if they are ready. All children develop at different paces, some walk quicker than other, some talk quicker than other. i suppose this is were the theory of let the brain develop fully first before bombarding it with facts, figures and theories.

Interesting debate and sorry to go off topic.

Jo

Diny

17th February 2006, 01:15 PM

Sunshine21

17th February 2006, 03:54 PM

Fair point, and thanks for yor welcome. Our research into emigrating showed NZ as being the quickest and easiest destination to go to if you did not have any family ties to any other country other than your homeland.

Did not others, in their research find NZ the quickest and easiest??? We got NZ PR in 3 months but it took 14 months to get Oz PR, and as I mentioned about the US, you simply can not migrate there as an independent migrant. So for the huge majority the US is not a migration option, even with family - I have a brother who is a US cit, the wait is over 10 years.

Moorf

17th February 2006, 04:23 PM

Hi,

I agree, it was one of the quickest and easiest, but that did not "make" the decision for us. I think that if you're determined to want to live somewhere, you would put up with whatever timescales and costs it would take.... well, we would.

Moorf

Diny

17th February 2006, 06:03 PM

jim&alma

17th February 2006, 06:13 PM

I think that there is always a balance. Sweden is very similer in it's approach tos chooling they only atart between 6/7 and that's only if they are ready. All children develop at different paces, some walk quicker than other, some talk quicker than other. i suppose this is were the theory of let the brain develop fully first before bombarding it with facts, figures and theories.

Interesting debate and sorry to go off topic.

Jo,
Certainly is interesting. I understand the logic but there's a part of me that's saying - hey I went through the old system and I turned out ok. But it's definitely something to consider, we all want our kids to do better.

Avalon

17th February 2006, 06:23 PM

:laugh :laugh :laugh Yeah I agree - Wolverhampton is easy to get to but I don't want to go there !!

Diny

Carol

17th February 2006, 06:41 PM

hmmmm interesting.....

Diny - I would love you to visit our school.
I'm not saying it is something special (well actually - yes I do believe it is!) but it sounds like a world removed from what you are describing....
In fact there is a big debate going on in my classroom at the moment about how they can get more sport into their days because they just don't get enough. I tend to agree with them - I have many skills but sports are my weakness. So be it - we cover the basics.

Do fee paying schools follow a different curriculum from state schools?
Because it is all there in black and white what you have to cover. In each curriculum document the expectations are there. Literacy and Numeracy form the greatest parts naturally.
We have made a huge leap back into the world of Integrated Curriculum this year. Thank goodness.
Learning experiences without meaning are a waste of time as far as I can see..... in one ear out the other.

What year groups are the boys again?

C
x

jim&alma

17th February 2006, 06:46 PM

I am quite surprised at people's responses. I would have thought one of the big answers to 'why NZ' is because majority of persons can get into NZ easier and quicker than any other english speaking country.
Hi Sunshine,
I think most people here are/were already in a comfortable home just wanting to move to a 'better' place (in theory at least), and so the 'easiest way out' is not really a major consideration. For us, the simpler emigration process will make this task easier, but our main reason is the healthier, more relaxed and grounded lifestyle we perceive we will have in NZ.
Regards, Alma

Carol

17th February 2006, 06:52 PM

For us it was simply that we had heard so much about it from my brother and sister in law (she is a kiwi) and it sounded exactly what we were looking for.

TO be honest - looking back, we were absolutely crazy to do what we did.
Move half way around the world on a whim - never been here before - no internet to do research on - no forum - no email to stay in touch with parents - and a tiny, in fact miniscule deposit for a house.

We were however aware that time was against us. We had two kids 7 and 4 and we were in our 30's. We knew we could get in and get residency easily especially with my degree. And we didn't want to say "wish we had done that"

Didn't want to go to the USA. Canada was too cold. Aus too hot/too many beasties.

The only problem with NZ was it was too far away........it still is!

Diny

17th February 2006, 08:30 PM

Hi Carol - Henny is in yr 5 and Fergie is yr 6.

I feel that the small amount of academic studies they do are very good - certainly on a par with what they were getting back in the UK. I just can't get to grips with how little they do.

The school we've been 'looking at' (we have friends with a son there) spend far more time 'in front of the blackboard', and the 'level' of the education they receive seems to be far higher than what they're getting now. Participation in all the usual sports is encouraged, however alot of it is played as extra curricular activities, which in my mind is how it should be.

I'm trying very hard to embrace the situation but I guess old habits die hard. I'm no Einstein and neither are my boys but we want what 'we feel' is best for them. I try to put it in terms of 'what if' . Such as:

What if we suddenly found ourselves returning to the UK, would we find our boys would have fallen behind in their education? Sadly from what we can see the answer would be yes - and that breaks my heart.

Trying to illustrate it a different way. 'Back home' the conversations around the dinner table at night were always full of what they'd done at school. Henny (who has to work hard to remain average) would relate all learnings of that day - and with pride. I would often be amazed at what they'd been studying and how much they had absorbed. The dinner table conversations here are all about who won at 4 square, how they had watched some video this afternoon, who's on which team for cricket. When we ask about what they've done in maths or literacy they just shrug and say 'dunno'. Another thing that startled me too. Both boys were using fountain pens (which they both had to develop a skill for) for their literacy work back in the UK - here they're only allowed pencils. No big deal if it was an isolated experience but when you add it onto all the other little 'irritations' I find it most annoying.

I know I must sound like one of those mothers from hell, I'm not - I just want what's best for my kids and at the moment I don't feel they are getting it. My Mum has noticed how the boys have fallen behind, to quote her ..'do they do any work at that place'.

I have to stress - it's not the quality of the teaching staff I'm unhappy with, it's the academic/sports/social balance that just tips me over the edge.

I realise changes are going to have to be made - either I need to change my opinion or the boys need to be taken out of state education - watch this space.

Diny

Carol

18th February 2006, 04:51 AM

Diny - I have lots of thoughts and beliefs about what you are saying.
But this isn't the place......

One thing I would say though - fountain pens......... they are a tool to write with - to communicate.
That is all.
(Unless you are studying calligraphy)

To be honest - a lot less effective than a computer.
Traditional - yes.
Neat - sometimes if you get a good one.
A skill - probably - but is it one you are going to need int he 21st century?

The only right school for your kids is the one that you and them see is right for them. Which actually may not even be the same school for two different kids. SO if that is what you want - so be it.

willsken

18th February 2006, 06:31 AM

Hi Sunshine,
I think most people here are/were already in a comfortable home just wanting to move to a 'better' place (in theory at least), and so the 'easiest way out' is not really a major consideration. For us, the simpler emigration process will make this task easier, but our main reason is the healthier, more relaxed and grounded lifestyle we perceive we will have in NZ.
Regards, Alma

Hi Sunshine

I gave my reasons of why not other countries. I didn't even look into the emigration process of the "other" 4. I wouldn’t want to live in the US if it was the last place on earth, so how hard it is to go there was never even a thought.

The time taken to get into Canada and Oz, if they had appealed, wouldn't have put me off at all. I know I have well over the needed points to go to OZ (Internet calculator just for fun!) Oz has just never appealed - my husband suggested it years ago and my heals dug in at the thought!

I loved NZ when we visited. The space and lack of people especially. I can honestly say it is the only place in the world that has even remotely tempted me to leave the UK. :)

StevieD

18th February 2006, 06:44 AM

Lots of the above, and the feeling that fate is pushing us there. All sorts of strange happenings related to NZ have been going on over the last 2 years, all things that just happen to point to NZ. Almost as if someone or something is "pushing" us in that direction. Spooky!

Steve

willsken

18th February 2006, 07:37 AM

Very spooky!! :D

StevieD

18th February 2006, 09:10 AM

Thanks Nic!! :laugh

Singel

18th February 2006, 03:59 PM

Smiler

18th February 2006, 07:03 PM

Australia is out because of the crimpy crawlies.

Ivy, Thank you. They almost look better now they are called that. :nice1:nice1

D x

Marie P

18th February 2006, 07:31 PM

Great image .....spiders with nice hair do's....... :laugh

Singel

18th February 2006, 07:46 PM

Something like this............. :laugh

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b47/Singel8/ist2_1106810_spider_cartoon.jpg

Sunshine21

20th February 2006, 02:19 PM

My hubby is in IT, basically we could go anywhere that we want to (the world is our oyster). We considered English speaking countries only so that I could get a job and also the weather should not be cold and do not have snow.

US is out because of the guns.
Australia is out because of the crimpy crawlies.
UK/Ireland and Canada are out because of the weather

That left us with NZ and it has never crossed our mind that it is easier to get a PR than any other countries.

I would be amazed if you could have got a work visa for the USA let alone a Green Card - It is not in any way on the labour market shortage in the US. There has been a huge down turn in the US IT industry in the last 5 years. Even if you could get a work visa the sponsorship for a GC is very very thorough and your employer has to do it - not you the applicant. many US employers are loathe to do tis due to expense and once employee has GC they can move on to another company with a work visa you are tied to that company. Just still so amazed that people do not realise that that you can not pick and chose to migrate to the US. Sorry to having a rant but I like the US and get fed of people lumping it all together as superficial and gun crazy.

In terms of migration option with regards to english speaking countries you really only have the option of:
Uk
NZ
Oz
Canada

And NZ struggles to compete to attract and keep migrants.

Diny

20th February 2006, 02:28 PM

Just still so amazed that people do not realise that that you can not pick and chose to migrate to the US. .

Sunshine - sorry to have to jump on your post again, but you make it sound as though it is impossible to migrate to the USA.

OK - it's one of the more difficult places to go, but certainly NOT impossible. I know 3 families (2 x English 1 x Scottish) who have all emigrated to the USA over the last 2 years. Although the process was lengthy (i.e. waiting an age for each stage of application to be copmpleted) it certainly wasn't so difficult that they considered giving up and opting for good ol' easy NZ.

I guess immigration to the US is relatively easy for some and downright impossible for others - each case has to be looked at on an individual basis as there doesn't seem to be any 'norm'.

Diny

Singel

20th February 2006, 03:39 PM

Sunshine - sorry to have to jump on your post again, but you make it sound as though it is impossible to migrate to the USA.

OK - it's one of the more difficult places to go, but certainly NOT impossible. I know 3 families (2 x English 1 x Scottish) who have all emigrated to the USA over the last 2 years. Although the process was lengthy (i.e. waiting an age for each stage of application to be copmpleted) it certainly wasn't so difficult that they considered giving up and opting for good ol' easy NZ.

I guess immigration to the US is relatively easy for some and downright impossible for others - each case has to be looked at on an individual basis as there doesn't seem to be any 'norm'.

Diny
Thanks Diny for that great inputs :nice1

The IT skills that my hubby had, were very specialised and it is in great demand in US as well. So, we know that we could emigrate there quite easily.

Sunshine21

20th February 2006, 03:57 PM

You can not emigrate independently like you can to NZ, Oz, Canada or the UK. There is no points system. You must find an employer willing to sponsor you and with a labour market the size of the USA most will not bother. And then that is no guarantee of a GC. There is also a limit on how long you are allowed to remain on a w/p - 7 years and then regardless of how good you are there is no extension, no new w/p if you find another employer. Likewise if you enter the US under the visa waiver scheme you can not change to a visa with immigrant intent, apart from a marriage one - so you can not go there look for a job and then get sponsored and change to a work permit.

If you don't believe me check out the britishexpats.com forum on USA emigration as soon as anyone puts they fancy migrating to the US most respond with laughter.

It is virtually impossible for the average bod going to to NZ to get into the US.

This is pointless on a NZ forum and the only reason for responding is so many people seem to think they could even consider the US and are dismiss of it when you could not get in even if you tried. The US is not actively seeking to increase its population.

Going off on a tangent away from the NZ topic of this forum - so apologies for that but these reallya re the facts.

Diny - your friends may be on an inter company transfer unlikely a company came along and sponsored them for a green card.

Diny

20th February 2006, 04:17 PM

2 of them have started their own business over there, the 3rd did have a job waiting for him - in a company started by his Brit father about 5 years ago.

I fully understand what you are saying - I just wanted to point out that it is not impossible.

As you have stated, this is an NZ forum so I have no idea why we're discussing getting into the US.

Diny

Sunshine21

20th February 2006, 04:17 PM

http://britishexpats.com/articles/usa/how-to-live-and-work-in-the-usa/

This will give you an indication of the process and if you go the expats website and ask the question wait and see the responses then you will be able to say whether I was completely off the mark by stating that you can not just chose to go the US like NZ and that for most it really is nigh on impossible.

Buyio

20th February 2006, 05:58 PM

Well, our story is that we've never been to NZ, dont have friends/relatives out there, dont know much about it but LOVE IT!!! when I first met my husband (and that was 2 years ago before knowing that he's the LML) he told me he will migrate to NZ. I was preparing documents for Aus at that time...after having many inquiries about Canada and even Europe. But never thought about NZ :D then last year after falling inlove we said that we should start the NZ papers, because we really dont want to live here forever and that we fit better in NZ. So got IELTS, changed papers and submittef EOI!!
Now, let's hope our dream will come true!
:cheers from Monica & Dan

jim&alma

20th February 2006, 06:56 PM

This is pointless on a NZ forum and the only reason for responding is so many people seem to think they could even consider the US and are dismiss of it when you could not get in even if you tried. The US is not actively seeking to increase its population.

Going off on a tangent away from the NZ topic of this forum - so apologies for that but these reallya re the facts.
Off tangent or not, it was still an interesting discussion. Was this your main reason for applying to NZ Sunshine?

I haven't researched yet on immi procedures in other countries, but the only places that were up for consideration for us aside from NZ were Canada, Oz and Denmark. US just seemed too crazy, too crowded, too unsafe. The downers for others: Denmark - language barrier, Canada - extreme winter, Oz - lukewarm about it, never really researched. Just fell in love with NZ from what I've seen and researched about it. The 'realities' threads in this forum really made me more objective about NZ but I'm still eager to get there. At the end of the day, we want to be where we can all be healthy and safe and just enjoy the place.

Lizelle

20th February 2006, 07:21 PM

Hello again. I have not posted here in a long while, but read up from time to time to see what people are saying.

I must say, i find it interesting the way people responded to sunshine saying that he (she?) thought people would come to nz because it is the easiest.

For us, it was 100% exactly the reason we immigrated to nz. Our first choice was canada, and we did have the points, but the process was long. Did not have enough points for aus, so it was not really on the list. Uk was an option (don't laugh), but could not stand the thought of all that rain. We never even thought of nz untill we heard that we can come to nz without a visitor's visa, a thing unheard of when you are south african

I suppose it depends greatly on the reason that you are immigrating, and what stage of your life you are in. I find nz a depressing place to live, or more accurately (sp?) auckland. For various reasons we have to live here, and i don't like it one bit. I would move back to south africa in a heartbeat if things improve there (which i calculate will be around 3 generations from now, so not much chance for that). We plan on living here untill we get citizenship, and then moving as soon as the ink is dry to aus, which i think is a closer culture to south africa

We moved from south africa so that our future children will have a chance to live where they want, to give ourselves a chance at a better future. In many ways i feel that we gave up a lot of our quality of life to improve our quality of life in the long run. We are both 29 this year, so not really settled into work/family as much as some of the others on this forum.

I appreciate the fact that most of the people on the forum moved/ are planning to move, for reasons other than ours, but try and remember than not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to have a wide choice of places to move to, or the luxury of time to wait for a long process to run its course

GeorgeM

20th February 2006, 07:43 PM

We came for:

A better climate
More space (both personal (i.e. home/garden) and societal (lots of room for not many people))
Greater personal safety
A more homogeneous society
Somewhere where I thought that we would fit in
An escape from 80 mile commutes which meant starting for work at 5:15 every day
A society where the national sport wasn't shopping
In our opinion we found the lot in NZ.

Diny

20th February 2006, 08:02 PM

Uk was an option (don't laugh), but could not stand the thought of all that rain.

There's a reason NZ is so green ...... it's all the RAIN !!!!!!!!!!

foolsgold99

20th February 2006, 08:57 PM

Again off topic but I know plenty of people from the UK that have moved to the US, we did US immigration a while back, it was a chore but we got through it. We had a lawyer in NY, and got my degree validated by a local university, after that it was easy enough.

Sure you need a good degree and good job skills (Medical / IT / Engineering). If we wanted to do it, we'd get in no probs. Having spent time working in the US, I know there are plenty of immigrants, over 10% of the US population is overseas born, 33m people. This figure is 20m up from 1970. I worked in Silicon Valley, just about everyone there seemed to be from overseas

but, I guess the main thrust of my post is this, if you don't really want to come to NZ, and are just moving there because you can't get in anywhere else, I'd ask you to think seriously about it, and not to come. If you don't want to be here, you'll add nothing to the country, and will not happy

GeorgeM

21st February 2006, 04:03 AM

but, I guess the main thrust of my post is this, if you don't really want to come to NZ, and are just moving there because you can't get in anywhere else, I'd ask you to think seriously about it, and not to come. If you don't want to be here, you'll add nothing to the country, and will not happyThere must be some people who are so unhappy with where they are that NZ would be a better option even if it were the best of a bad bunch for them.

But for most people I think that this is very sound advice - NZ isn't the place to come unless you really want to. There are lots of things that NZ doesn't offer, and if you need these (bright lights, soccer, lots of people, the benefits of a big economy etc) then NZ isn't for you.

Diny

21st February 2006, 05:08 AM

foolsgold99

21st February 2006, 05:59 AM

I suppose it depends greatly on the reason that you are immigrating, and what stage of your life you are in. I find nz a depressing place to live, or more accurately (sp?) auckland. For various reasons we have to live here, and i don't like it one bit. I would move back to south africa in a heartbeat if things improve there (which i calculate will be around 3 generations from now, so not much chance for that). We plan on living here untill we get citizenship, and then moving as soon as the ink is dry to aus, which i think is a closer culture to south africa

We moved from south africa so that our future children will have a chance to live where they want, to give ourselves a chance at a better future. In many ways i feel that we gave up a lot of our quality of life to improve our quality of life in the long run. We are both 29 this year, so not really settled into work/family as much as some of the others on this forum.

NZ citizenship is granted to those theat have been resident here for 3 years and intentd to stay, from the goverment website

(http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Services-Citizenship-General-Requirements-for-a-Grant-of-New-Zealand-Citizenship?OpenDocument#one)Intend (http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Services-Citizenship-General-Requirements-for-a-Grant-of-New-Zealand-Citizenship?OpenDocument#one), if granted citizenship, to continue to reside in New Zealand.
(http://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/wpg_URL/Services-Citizenship-General-Requirements-for-a-Grant-of-New-Zealand-Citizenship?OpenDocument#one)

You make a legal declaration to that fact on the form, what you plan to do is both criminal and immoral. You are obtaining citizenship of this country by deception, still if it gets another whinging Yarpie off the streets of auckland I can just about live with it.

Lizelle

21st February 2006, 07:06 AM

Again, i find people's scorn quite interesting. You don't like it, fine by me, i live by the standard: "be yourself, those that care don't matter, and those that matter don't care"

BUT, you should come of your high horse once in a while, and see what life is like for those of us that don't live in the euro zone, uk or the america's.
Our exchange rate is terrible to nz (well just about to anyware in the world). Paying NZ$1000 for something from south africa takes months of saving. Selling your house gets you a quater of the value in nz$. None but the very richest can sell their house, and then move to nz and buy one without a morgage.

My OH went to work in Iraq for a while to get enough money for us to be able to move out of the country. There is so many south africans working in iraq as security that the government is trying to block it, which should give you an idea of how valuable US$ is in south africa. We had to save for 10 months when we got here to get enough money to put down the deposit to buy a house. Pretty much every country in the world has south africa on the list that says you have to go through a much more demanding process to get in than people from the above mentioned countries.

So why is your reasons for moving more honourable than mine? You are trying to save your way of life, i am trying to save my actual life. My dad has been held at gunpoint twice, 4 people i know has been murdered, countless other people has been robbed. Being a farmer in south africa is one of the most dangerous occupations in the world. People can't drive through town with their windows open because some weirdo is running around sticking people with needles infected with hiv. We have had death threats from some of the political parties. The list goes on. I love being a child of Africa, there is something in it that speaks to me, but enough is enough.

And, it is not 3 years, it is 5 now before citizenship. So, we have 4 more years to decide what to do. If by some miracle we can move to another part of nz, and we like it, great. And i don't like soccer or night clubs very much, so that is not what i was referring to when i spoke about south african culture. But, our whole reason for moving out of south africa is to get a passport other than a south african one, so that the world can open up for us a bit.

So saying, I appreciate the fact that everyone is different, and reasons for moving is different, and people like different things (i have read many threads where people ACTUALLY like auckland, imagine that). So again, i don't begrudge you the reasons for moving to nz, if it is for reasons better than mine, good for you. But try to be slightly more openminded when you judge

foolsgold99

21st February 2006, 07:27 AM

So why is your reasons for moving more honourable than mine?

Because I'm not planning on telling any lies to the NZIS.

south Africa = Bad place now. no argument, I wouldn't live there, could have bought a beautiful house without a mortgage, but would have needed 3 big dogs and an AK-47, so decided against it. Fast heading towards the third world.

I take exception to the fact that you were quite happy to boast that you are going to commit a criminal act, and frauduently obtain citizenship of this country.

When you obtain citizenship, you make a solemn promise to this country and it's people, that you will make this place your home, and that you intend to continue to reside here. In return they grant you the rights, privelleges and responsibilities of citizenship. knowingly providing false info on this form is a criminal act.

Your plan to head to Aus as soon as the ink is dry on the citizenship, makes a mockery of this entire process and is dis-honourable, if you told the truth you would not be granted NZ citizenship. That is what I have a problem with, you are abusing this country.