[Pamela]

As you all know it has been a long time coming,

Well last night my Son Richard 17 has said he does not want to go,I am gutted
and feel so sick, We were hoping to go when his exams finished but house ect could not do it, So he went back for six form till sorted, I knew something was wrong with him so I asked Hubby to have a word which he did.

He has said he will miss everyone and teachers, and he really does not know what to do,He did say give me a week to think about it. I am trying to tread carefully, As I am so scared, that I am not sure what action to take I have told him in a nice way with out losing it that he has to understand that if he wants to stay, he will need to find job a place to stay and still study and in 3 months time his friends will be moving on. I know in my heart that he will struggle because we have done everything as parents that we can for him. And I do not want him to stay,are we being selfish.

I want him to give it ago activate his visa and try, carry on the studying in NZ and if he really does not like it come back, But come back to what.

I also know that our children are only on loan and they flee the nest, This is so hard we have sold we have booked flights and both now not got jobs. I feel torn Peter has said if I really want to stay he would but I know we both do not want too. This is a dream that has taken so long to get too that I would not have the energy to go for again.I am sobbing as I write this I just cannot belive that he has not said something before, We started this journey because Richard love NZ so much that he wanted it more than us now this.

Is this just a wobble?

Richard gave me a big cuddle as he went off to bed crying last night and he is still in bed now I am hoping that the chat we had has given him something to think about, I do not want to go without my Baby. who said life was easy.

Pam

[StevieD]

Pamela - very big hugs coming your way from us in Liverpool {{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}

My advice, no matter how hard it is going to be for you - is go for it. Maybe he is trying to flex his muscle a bit by holding you on an emotional thread. Sure if you say that you are going regardless may make him really take stock of what he really values in life, his family or his "mates". As we all know, friendships can easily fall apart, especially after leaving school when everyone starts going their own way in work, getting girlfriends etc. It has hapened to us all, but try telling a 17 year old that it is like that and we all know the response.
Try thinking of it another way. If NZ wasn't on the horizon and he all of a sudden said that he wanted to travel the world, go to OZ and NZ backpacking - would you stop him?? It is a similar sort of thing isn't it? You are obviously very emotional at this time because it is a huge undertaking that we are all embarking upon, but he is stretching his wings in one way, just in a different way. Yes he is young, but he will have to learn by his own mistakes as we all do. Sit and chat with him again, and make everything clear to him, how you feel and what you want to do. Don't be soft, and outline the pitfalls to him. Maybe he will see sense.

Good luck Pamela XX

Steve and Jan

[Nienke]

I have no wise words for you, but I'm so sorry, it must be hell! Big hugs from me as well and I hope it will soon turn out well.

[smitjo]

I'm really sorry to hear your news!
My advise to you (although I don't have kids as yet!) is to carry on with your plans to move. I remember when my folks told me that I was moving to a boarding school in Kwazulu Natal, SA just two weeks before I was meant to go back to school! I was mortified to say the least, I loved my school in Cape Town, was very happy, had loads of friends and was the same age as your son. My parents wanted to move to Natal and thought that it would be best to send me off to boarding school whilst they tried to sell the farm etc. It was a difficult decision for them as they could see how happy I was and how much i loved it where I was. I was always a shy child but my school and circle of friends had helped me a great deal - I couldn't think of anything worse than leaving everyting to start from scratch again. However like you said my parents needed to do it for themselves - I wasn't always going to be around. After a lot of tears (I hadn't lived away from home before), tantrums and more tantrums - I left. Obviously it was hard at the beginning but I settled down quickly, made new friends and had an absolute ball! Young people make friends easily - it may be difficult at first but it always works out in the end.
Good Luck, it may be hard but I'm sure he will come round in the end. Please don't give up your dream!

Jo

[Bubbles]

Hi Pam,
You're not alone on this one. It must be something to do with the southeast air.

We are in a similar situation with our 17 yr old daughter, only she has found love :uhoh
Before we started on this venture the wife and I sat the kids down and explained what we would like to do, explained the pro's and con's of NZ against UK and how we thought it would benefit the family as a whole overall. We needed full agreement and understanding from the children before we could even consider applying for residence, and we got it. They all jumped at it, some more than others, but we got the 'green light'. So last Oct' we were granted PR.
Everything was fine until that point, then Elizabeth fell for a lad. As I'm sure you are aware, teenage girls, hormones, spotty little boyfriends and emmigration plans don't mix that well.

She is fully aware that we will be making the leap this Sept', preferably and hopefully with her. She, like your son is dependant both financially and emotionally on yours truly and mum, and she realises this also. She knows deepdown that to stay would be the wrong decision, and she would not be able to cope on her own, but she still has her bad days. At this moment in time, things are good with her and she say's she will give it a go, but as she's still all loved up things could quite easily change again ( Female+teenager+hormones+boyfriend = TROUBLE ) Unfortunately, it's one the joys of parenthood.............................NOT !!!!
So, really no helpfull advice there at-all but at least you know you're not alone. Hang in there Pam, I'm sure things will work out well in the end for you. :nice1

John

PS. Feel free to pm me or the wife if you want or need to talk somemore.

[Pamela]

Thanks for your replies you do not know how helpful they are.

I have just got off the phone from Peter still cannot belive what has been said, But I am going to chat to Richard again when he gets out of his pit yes still in bed lets hope that he has had a night like I have not much sleep and done lots of thinking.

I am going to tell him that what ever he decides to do he will have my blessing BUT he must be aware that if he wants to stay then he will have to find

1) Job 2) Somewhere to live 3) Study 4) Bills 5) General living expenses,Football,Bowling,Pictures,Partying and everything else which so far has been done with the help off Bank of Mum and Dad.

You could say scare the pants of him. I just find it so hard to be firm with him but needs must,

I did ask him if he wanted to post on here to get some 3rd party advice but he declined, My 27 year old Daughter has said Mum he's having a laugh he could not cope with out us. I am so hoping that he will come and shed a few tears like we all do leaving behind the safe haven that we all have and embark on the new life. After all he only has 6 weeks to find all the things that he needs to stay.

So here's hoping. I am sure these thinks are sent to try us.

[katandbob]

As you all know it has been a long time coming,

Well last night my Son Richard 17 has said he does not want to go,I am gutted
and feel so sick, We were hoping to go when his exams finished but house ect could not do it, So he went back for six form till sorted, I knew something was wrong with him so I asked Hubby to have a word which he did.

He has said he will miss everyone and teachers, and he really does not know what to do,He did say give me a week to think about it. I am trying to tread carefully, As I am so scared, that I am not sure what action to take I have told him in a nice way with out losing it that he has to understand that if he wants to stay, he will need to find job a place to stay and still study and in 3 months time his friends will be moving on. I know in my heart that he will struggle because we have done everything as parents that we can for him. And I do not want him to stay,are we being selfish.

I want him to give it ago activate his visa and try, carry on the studying in NZ and if he really does not like it come back, But come back to what.

I also know that our children are only on loan and they flee the nest, This is so hard we have sold we have booked flights and both now not got jobs. I feel torn Peter has said if I really want to stay he would but I know we both do not want too. This is a dream that has taken so long to get too that I would not have the energy to go for again.I am sobbing as I write this I just cannot belive that he has not said something before, We started this journey because Richard love NZ so much that he wanted it more than us now this.

Is this just a wobble?

Richard gave me a big cuddle as he went off to bed crying last night and he is still in bed now I am hoping that the chat we had has given him something to think about, I do not want to go without my Baby. who said life was easy.

Pam

Pam,

You could be me in 4mths time, we are going out in May and our 2 boys are staying here to finish school, my 17yr old has just started a 4yr apprenticeship, it was the only thing open to him so he took it....now he loves it, then got a girlfriend, and 3 weeks ago, after telling his tutor that we were deserting him and emigrating to NZ and that he was now living at his grans....Moved out into College digs...rent paid by them! I have seen him one sunday since (he didnt bother coming this sunday (we wer at the NW meet)- got his gran to go shopping for him, and swopped the food for mucky washin! :laugh )

All that is happening to you is bubbling under the surface for me and I felt queasy reading your post.........no your NOT selfish........And my OH says that at least I still have Jason (15) but its not the same, I've had to leave my eldest and her partner/baby behind and thats killing me (I only cope cause they promise that they are coming too - when they have got some capital)
I have told Jordon that I want him to come out in September even if its Just to activate his Visa, apart from the money its cost us so far, he could after letting it lapse, change his mind, realise that he wants to be with us and then we will have to spend more money sorting it out,
Jordon is scared of leaving what has come familiar and comfortable to him for the giant unknown. And I am sure your son is feeling the same.

I will be thinking of you, looking for updates and hoping that both of us get our wishes
{{{{{HUMONGUS HUGS}}}} Kat....ps hope it helps to know your not alone :o and you can PM me any time x

[Cardy]

hello Pamela
you have had so many problems already i dont know what to say to make it better. You deserve a smooth ride now. You have sold the house and now this!!
I know i would be torn in the same situation as i love my kids very much but what some of the others have said is true. In a short time he may want to go off by himself anyway and you would have stayed in uk for nothing after all that hardwork and heartache. Lets hope he will give it a go for you and his dad and if he really doesnt want to stay at least he will have tried for you both.You can find new friends you cant replace your family.My only worry about going is that my kids wont settle that is the only thing that would make me come back but mine are only 11 and 14 so i couldnt leave them. I hope you have a happy ending you deserve it .LOL Paul And Bev :)

[tigerlily]

Pamela,
Oh I'm sorry that there is such a big wobble for you right at the end! I know your heart must be in tough shape this morning. My kids are still small, but my thought for you are to try the carrot in addition to the stick. Would he like to just come out and try NZ, think of it as a vacation, take a bit of time off school, see what your opinions are at that point? My guess is after a couple of weeks in NZ he'll be wanting to join school and make some new friends etc. In NZ he could go to university at his age, so that might tempt him too. If all else fails, I've promised my husband a new X-box to get him to help with the move, perhaps some nice bribe such as that!

Best of luck, I'm sure he'll come round soon!

[marcia]

OMG! :uhoh

Can't say anything helpful really - just big hugs from us and hope things do work out in the end.

You can't give up your dream for your son, as you or someone else said he will be living the nest soon anyway!

Don't some birds kick their young out of the nest to make them learn to fly?? Maybe if he doesn't decide to come thats what will happen, he'll either learn to fly rather sharpish or he jump back in the nest for a bit longer!!

Whatever happens, remember you do appreciate things more the harder you work to get them! You will love NZ when you get there!

Theres lots of shoulders on this forum held out just you to have a good cry on! :wah

[gil]

Huge hugs Pamela, I have PM'd you.
Gil

[Diny]

Pam

I nearly died when I read the title of your thread this morning. My initial thoughts were that the house sale had bottomed out on you again. Never did I imagine anything like this !!

I can imagine the turmoil you and Pete (and Richard) are in. Just try to keep calm, remember that Richard idn't doing this to be awkward, he too is full to the brim of uncertainty - he has to have an outlet for his panic - this is it.

I feel that if he comes with you, activates his visa, gives it a go for a while he'll be sold on the idea. It's just getting him to make that break which is the difficult bit.

Maybe this will help him decide. When I was 17 my life was my friends and my social life ...... in fact the world revolved around ME !!!!! I had umpteen 'mates' who I thought would be there for life. But as we all know (as we get more advanced in years) - mates come and go. We all follow our own paths and drifting apart is just a natural process. Those who at one stage we'd share our deepest secrets and our last rolo with are now almost unknown to us.

Out of all my vast band of buddies from those days, only 2 stayed close at heart. We remained friends through thick and thin. These were my best buddies. Sadly one of them died 8 years ago (but her memory remains strong) - the other is still my best mate, in spite of the fact that over the years we've lived poles apart, followed different career paths, married, had kids, divorced and moved on (in her case). We're still best mates.

What I'm trying to tell Richard is this. People change. Those who at 17 we would claim to be our bestest ever life long buddies can/may/will be somebody who you merely send Christmas cards to in later years. It's a hard fact to grasp but how will he feel a year down the line when 6th form has finished, his mates have all gone off in the directions of thier own careers and he's left standing there thinking 'hold on - I stayed here for you - aren't you going to stay here for me'?

Tough times matey - I'm thinking of you.

Diny

[janjane]

hi,
we're leaving our child (20) as well. We've told her she must activate her visa and although we're coming out in Sept she's booked tickets in dec, for Christmas, we know then that she has 2 years of visiting and trying it to see if she likes it. Although to be honest, she's been to oz and loved it so much that I think this will be her real choice!
hope it works out for you and your child as well jane

[Smiler]

Pamela

I've read everyone's wise words above and here is my two pen'orth.

First of I can see this from both your sides, Richard who is settled in his comfy 17 years and scared of the unknown and Mum and Dad who want a new chance at life that now is the right time for. My son who was 19 when we started this lark, opted to stay in UK.

I'm sure you have pointed out all the plus points of going to NZ and the minus points of staying alone. Can you use Diny's example of mates or does he still have mates from infant school that he continues to see.

What do his mates think of him going? Have they said cool, text me or ok then see ya? I'm sure in three months they will have moved on as teenagers do.

See how he feels over the next few days, however hard that is for you to cope with and be patient for. He may be having a huge wobble and need reassurance but also needs the harsh realities of staying behind pointed out to him. How about sitting down and working out a financial statement showing him what it would be like to cope alone? Nothing more realistic than seeing which drain your hard earned will be going down. Compare this with his financial situation and how it will be in NZ. Not as a bribe but facts.

This is so hard for you all and there will be small and huge wobbles along the way. This is huge for all of you.

I did not want to come without my baby but I dragged him up single handed, taught him to be independant and he has to make his decision now, as he is an adult and I have to respect that. It doesn't mean that it breaks my heart most days, I'm sobbing trying to write this, but it is my sons choice however much it hurts me.

I know he is unhappy in the UK living with my parents (so much so he asked me for the deposit on a house :laugh) and although that adds to the hurt, it is his choice.

Hang on in there, give him some time to think on your points.

I hope he comes round but if not do you really want to stay in the UK for him? This is now your time, however much leaving him will hurt.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Big hugs to you all)))))))))))))))))))))))))

[john & becky]

I left home when I was 17, from Durham to London for work. Its not quite the same I know, and i had weekend visits with Mum and Dad to look forward to but as the weeks went by I became more independant and looked after myself more and more.
I honestly feel that without the independence and experience I gained then I would not be the same man now.

In short, encourage him to make his own decision. If Richard does decide to come with you he might or might not regret it, but if he makes a go of it on his own you should be proud, it could be the making of him........

[Hannah]

Hi Pamela

I really feel for you - have had my own wobblies with my son who is 10 and spent first 2 months wanting to go home...now wants to stay. Not the same thing - but it still hurts emotionally. Wise words said already so i can only just echo them. I think your son would be wise to activate his visa with a view to returning unless something in NZ keeps him there. Maybe it is just the wobbles - i'm sure some on this forum have decided in those few weeks before they leave that they would rather stay behind. Better the devil we know and all that.
Maybe he needs to change focus and check out NZ as a holiday destination where in the future he can stay with his parents who can wash his smalls while he does some sight seeing. this will activate his visa and make the first trip less scary.
not an easy one, and i wish your family well as you work through this. I hope this is just last minute fear and need for reassurance.
All the best, hannah

[Pamela]

What a wise and wonderful lot you all are on here the words of advice from everyone all of you has help us all thank-you so much.

Well after hours of soul searching and words, Richard has said he is COMING I am so pleased he has spent hours thinking and has said that he does not want me to go on about it which I will not. But he did say Mum when the shippers have been which is on the 30th March can I have a leaving do in the empty house OMG and does not want us here wonder why. I will hide behind the hedge lol.

We have explained that he can pick up on the course that he has been doing here at wikato uni and he would have so much to offer he is sport and footy crazy. We have hugged and cried loads but at last he has made up his mind.

So now I want the weeks to fly by and get on the plane quick before anymore wobbles.

I have not told him about my post on here but when I feel that he is ok I will let him read all the replies and advice that you have given me and belive me you all stopped me from going over the edge, Just knowing that I was not alone helped no end. I feel so much better today and slept like a baby last night.

All of you that are going through this with teenagers keep up with the advice you have all given me and hopefully it will turn out like this and we can all get over the hurdles by being here for each other. You all do not know how much you have helped I cannot put it in to words it would take to long but thank-you from the bottom of my heart.

Pam x

[Bubbles]

:clap :clap :clap

Nice one Pam. See, I knew the lad would see sense.

:cheers

John

[gil]

Pam, I'm SOOOOOO pleased for you! He'll love it once he's there, I'm sure. Great news!!

But he did say Mum when the shippers have been can I have a leaving do in the empty house OMG and does not want us here wonder why. I will hide behind the hedge lol.

:laugh:laugh:laugh

Lots of love,
Gil
xxx

[Diny]

Brill news Pam !!!!!!! Guess it's back to .... 'see you soon'.

Diny

[Pimmar]

GOOD ON YOU ALL PAM !
THE STORM IS OVER

so now continue packing .. lol

[off2nz]

Hi - Just joined this forum so that I can add something to this thread - I have been lurking for a while!

I am so glad that your son has decided he will come with you - it's a very worrying time. We are in a similar situation. When hubby and I were thinking about emigrating we sat our 2 daughters down and discussed it with them. They are 17 and 15 and were both "up for it". Now that our EOI has been selected, hubby offered a job in Auckland, house sold (on the day we put it on the market!) our 15 year old has decided she doesn't want to leave. She is madly in love and thinks that he's the one - but aren't they all at 15? (Ok, he may well be but as I said to her, if he is then he will wait for her). She has some very close friends who she knows will move on if she leaves and she doesn't want that to happen. I have tried to say to her that once they all leave school they will probably drift apart anyway but she wants the last year or so with them before that happens. I have also tried the "you're still a minor you have to come" tack but then had the threat of "well, if you make me then I will run away". OTT threat is now my feeling on that but my initial reaction was absolute horror and then fear that she will actually do it.

The rest of us feel that we can't put our lives on hold for her as we are desperate to leave asap. And also as somebody else said before she is going to fly the nest over the next few years anyway.

Our oldest daughter is extremely keen on the prospect of her new life and doesn't have a lot of patience with her younger sister at the moment.

This post might seem like we are being hard with our youngest but I can assure you we are not. We are listening to her worries etc and there have been an awful lot of tears and cuddles. I can understand her fears but feel that we just have to get her there to realise what it's like.

Thanks for reading.
G

[gil]

Hi, Off2NZ and welcome. Ditto! (Except for the house, still not sold :wah)

Our seventeen year old is coming with us and has gone from "No way" to "OK" simply through hearing more peer level views about it. She discovered that several people she knows (not exactly friends) are also heading out to NZ for at least a year and one of them on a working holiday visa because "NZ is the coolest place on the planet". You can imagine how pleased we were to hear that!

On the other had, our (nearly) 15 year-old is adamant that she doesn't want to go, and has created all sorts of plans to live here with friends/grandpa/auntie etc and the trouble is, she has a trust fund from her deceased dad to fund her from age 18. She has accepted that she has to come with us in the short term, but insists that at 18 she will go to Uni in London. Her reasons for not wanting to go are: friends and the UK music scene. We've tried the rationalising (How will you pay/where will you live etc etc) but that didn't wash; the "just being there, hugging her when she's unable to speak through the tears” and that has seemed the best. We still have regular "But WHY do you want to go to NZ? Why not somewhere else in the UK?" moments thrown at us, but yesterday, she grudgingly conceded that she'd looked up some NZ bands (done her own searches, not all the links I've been giving her!) and thought they looked OK. "As long as we go to Auckland". Well that's a huge step in the right direction as far as we're concerned, so we're just giving her more time....

So, not too bad at the moment with the teenagers. Our 8 year-old would go tomorrow, but our boy (10 in a fortnight) has developed more of a negative attitude towards it, again for the "leaving friends" reason. However, as someone wisely pointed out on this forum recently, at 11, they move on to High School and break up/make new friends then anyway, especially as he would go to the same school as his big sisters, whch is NOT the local one where all his scholmates will go. He came home from school last week (not half-term here, that's this week!) and announced that one of his classmates is emigrating to Wellington and was hugely cheered by that. Someone of his age to talk to, I think!

So, we all go through the mill in one way or another, and I hope your daughter comes through OK. I will PM you some other info that might be of use.
Take care,
Gil

[off2nz]

Hi Gil

Thank you for your message (and your PM). It's not easy, is it?? I hope you get your house sold soon - we couldn't believe how quickly ours sold and for the asking price too!

Our 15 year old has always been very determined (right back as far as potty training!!!) and has to be left to make her own mind up about things. I am now making a concious effort (and have asked everyone else to do the same) not to talk about NZ too much so she doesn't feel it's being thrown at her all the time. I am sure that some of her friends are encouraging and saying what a wonderful chance it is and they wish they were her but then I'm also sure there are other friends who are saying that we are being very unfair to her, making her go. I just hope she soon starts to listen to the ones who are being positive about NZ.

Do you have a timescale yet? Where are you planning to go - not Auckland by the sounds of it?

Thanks again.
G

[katandbob]

What a wise and wonderful lot you all are on here the words of advice from everyone all of you has help us all thank-you so much.

Well after hours of soul searching and words, Richard has said he is COMING I am so pleased he has spent hours thinking and has said that he does not want me to go on about it which I will not. But he did say Mum when the shippers have been which is on the 30th March can I have a leaving do in the empty house OMG and does not want us here wonder why. I will hide behind the hedge lol.

We have explained that he can pick up on the course that he has been doing here at wikato uni and he would have so much to offer he is sport and footy crazy. We have hugged and cried loads but at last he has made up his mind.

So now I want the weeks to fly by and get on the plane quick before anymore wobbles.

I have not told him about my post on here but when I feel that he is ok I will let him read all the replies and advice that you have given me and belive me you all stopped me from going over the edge, Just knowing that I was not alone helped no end. I feel so much better today and slept like a baby last night.

All of you that are going through this with teenagers keep up with the advice you have all given me and hopefully it will turn out like this and we can all get over the hurdles by being here for each other. You all do not know how much you have helped I cannot put it in to words it would take to long but thank-you from the bottom of my heart.

Pam x

Glad that it ends well..................and did I hear Party :cheers , you could always leave some domestos and brooms out for them to clean up after themselves :nice1

Pam I will keep u informed how my '17'yr old issue pans out....

Good luck on the packing and everything else yet to do, I truly hope its plain sailing for us all.

{hugs} Kat

[marcia]

Pam great to hear that your son has agreed to come, I'm sure once he gets there and settles he'll love it and it will make it easier for you to settle knowing hes with you.

Hope you plans run smoothly from now on, (fingers, toes, knees, arms all crossed for you!)

Just like to add thank god my kids are only 10, 8 and 2, too young to protest. The eldest can't wait to get to NZ to see the girl he fancies again - watch out Jo B - lock up your daughter!!! :p

[jim&alma]

Wow, I'm suddenly so happy and relieved that my daughter is just about to turn 2. Congratulations Pamela, your perseverance has well paid off! And to all others who are are experiencing the same, good luck and hope we all make it to NZ in one piece.

[kiwidebs]

Hi Pamela

Just caught up with this thread. Glad it is all ok again now. Full steam ahead. And especially glad that my two are four and two and not in a position to object to anything we decide. To everyone else working thru this issue - good luck. Hope it all works out for you all.

Debs

[Smiler]

Pamela


I'm so pleased to read your reply and well done to you all, but especially Richard for being brave and making the decision. I hope all goes well for you from here on, including the party! :uhoh

off2nz, Welcome to the forum. :cheers Good news on the house sale. Whats your plan?

Deborah

[Albertz]

Great news Pamela :nice1
We are in the final stages of our ITA , only medicals to go and then its up to immigration as to when (if / we go).
We have 2 sons 15 & 8, when it was 1st discussed last October,the oldest wasnt too keen but accepted as due to my redundancy it was the only time we could make the move, (the youngest cant wait !), we even agreed that if we go out before his exams finish in May that I would stay behind with him and follow on later, now after having sold our house, stored our furniture, our car, moved in with the in law and arranged medicals , he has told us that he wants to finish ALL of his schooling and because he would miss all of his friends! and not go for his medicals :( things have become very tense here, (thought it was just us this was happenning too),
We have hopefully agreed a compromise that he will come out to NZ after his exams in June and will stay untill the schools go back in August if he doesnt like NZ, we have further agreed that if he cant settle without his family (her hope) that we will pay for him to come back to NZ in November when his gran is coming out for a break (if we get there :laugh )and stay until he decides where his future lies at a later date (we have told him that if he goes home again he will have to fund it himself but we'll have to wait and see.
No one ever said is was going to be easy :) but hey this is hard

[off2nz]

Hi Deborah
Thanks for your message - have PM'ed you so I don't take this thread over!
G

[driver]

Pamela, (you must be the one in the chat room the other day) if not never mind, so sorry to hear your predicament. Our 12 yr old doesn't want to come and even though he has no choice its a problem for us here. Although its nothing as big as yours I can see how you must be feeling, big hugs, from Kent.

[veronica]

glad that has been resolved for you Pam.......aren't kids wonderfull!!!