New Zealand - Just returned from 2 weeks in NZ...

Jason2112

2nd March 2006, 09:18 AM

My fiance and I have been looking into emigrating to NZ for about 6 months, and we finally got a chance to spend 2 weeks in NZ to take a look around and see what it offered. I've been reading through the posts on this site for about 6 months and thought I had a fair idea of what to expect when going to NZ, but in the end, it wasn't what I expected. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. In fact, we both left feeling like NZ was a nice place, but still unsure if we would want to live there (regardless of the advantages that seemed so good on paper). Keep in mind that my opinions are those of an American who has lived in Southern California my whole life.....

Christchurch- I've never been to England, so I can't say that I agree that it's 'more English than England', but it seems like a very basic city that meets the basic needs of most people. It seemed pretty tourist-oriented, though while we were there, we didn't see many Americans. The inner city seemed run-down and somewhat dilapidated. One word that always comes to my mind when I think of Christchurch is random. New buildings were built along streets of very old buildings, some buildings were painted bright colors, some homes seemed in disrepair right next to houses that were beautifully restored, so many makes and models of cars, etc, etc. We went through some of the outer-lying areas of the city and found them to be quite nice. The houses were spread out a little more, and I especially liked some of the hobby farms we saw along the way (I forget which area we were in). Very few flies and insects within the city.

Queenstown- We stayed in Qtown for a few days for a vacation within a vacation. The landscape and scenery was absolutely amazing. The weather changed so often, it seemed like that could get annoying (not knowing how to prepare for the weather). It was a very touristy city, and we saw more Americans here than any of the places we went to. I couldn't believe the prices for houses/land in the Qtown area, I can't imagine how some of the people who work in town can afford to live there. If I could start a business that catered to tourists and could find an affordable home, I'd consider living here. That's not likely.

Wellington- Ah yes, Windy Welly. We stayed in Roseneath, and the views of the bay were very nice. Wellington seemed much more up-to-date and cleaner than Christchurch, and it was the least touristy of the 3 cities we stayed in. It seemed to have just about everything you could ask for in terms of shopping and restaurants. We didn't get far outside the central city, but we were told that there are areas of flat land in the Hutt Valley, Karori, and Owhiro. The wind was the biggest drawback for us, it never seemed to stop blowing. I'm not sure if it's less windy in the areas I mentioned above.

Overall- we found NZ to be very behind-the-times for a country that is trying to market itself as technology-oriented. The air and water were very clean (especially in Queenstown). Those tree beatles are annoying. We saw very few police cars/officers. No donuts or donut shops (I guess that also explains the previous comment :) ). No paper towels to be found in restrooms (they can be made from recycled paper, why not?). Tons of small cars, most of which I can't fit in very well. NZ really needs a car emissions program, the exhaust fumes were pretty bad at times. There are no non-carbonated fountain drinks. In the US, we have a lot of fruit-juice drinks available at the same fountain that dispenses Coke and Pepsi. Attention restaurant owners: that's not lemonade, that's Sprite! It was nice to see so many parks and reserves within the cities. The chocolate is as bad as others had mentioned. Stores close early, especially M-W (no one goes shopping past 5pm?). Overall, we found the food to be bland, but still quite good. And the biggest difference we saw was the general lack of retail choices. I realize that this is dictated by the low population numbers and the cost to import goods, but we were surprised by the lack of selection for many products.

So what are we going to do? We're still thinking about it. We were hoping to come back home with a clear idea of what we wanted to do and where we were going, but we really feel indifferent about NZ. It's a nice place for sure, but we're not sure that it's right for us. 2 weeks just wasn't enough time for us to know. Plus, seeing the cost of things first-hand, we would not be better off financially if we were to have similar jobs and a similar home to what we have now. We're keeping it open as an option, but for now, it's still only an option for us.

StevieD

2nd March 2006, 10:13 AM

Interesting observations Jason.

Sure it will promote some debate...

jess

2nd March 2006, 10:43 AM

Thanks for taking the time to give a report on the whole trip. As StevieD says... it'll probably spark some debate. ;) I haven't been to most of the places, but I've been to Welly, and it was clean and not touristy and very very windy. Nice cultural scene. Beautiful city. And I felt so safe there... but then my US city is in the top five for homicides per capita, so it's all in what you're comparing to I guess.

J

Toronto_Kiwi

2nd March 2006, 10:57 AM

That's a hilarious post. I just got back from spending two weeks in New Zealand as well, although it was my sixth trip (the first four occurred before I was twelve to visit my grandparents in Wellington). My husband and I noticed the same lack of donut shops which is quite a contrast from southern Ontario for anyone who's ever visited. The Sprite / lemonade thing threw me off when I was a kid but then when I went to Europe they had no idea what I meant by lemonade either.

I kind of agree with you regarding Christchurch - it's a bit random just outside the inner city but then you get another 10 minutes out and it's gorgeous especially with the river walks. We stayed in St Martin's.

My husband and I found it quite refreshing that the shops close down after 5 pm: have you seen the research linking breast cancer & heart conditions to late shift work? I wish the rest of the world would chill a bit and close down earlier. The restaurants have improved a lot over the past five years and I noticed that they use less sodium than most North American restaurants which I appreciated a lot. In terms of clothes shopping, the number and variety of designer boutiques selling local New Zealand lines was very impressive and much more to my taste than the cookie-cutter fashion I encounter in Toronto. I exercised self restraint and didn't buy many items since I was returning to -15 C winter rather than summer.

Overall, my husband and I decided that we're probably going to move to Auckland in the next year and he's talking with a potential employer. I'm a citizen by descent so it should be fairly straightforward. Some of the infrastructure problems in Auckland put me off a bit (especially poorly managed traffic and lack of public transit) but my husband is super excited about escaping Canadian winter and I feel really at home in New Zealand: people are so nice and it's so easy to be active outside.

Diny

2nd March 2006, 01:10 PM

Al_S

2nd March 2006, 01:35 PM

I am a proud Torontonian who currently works in the USA so I can say I "know" these two countries rather well. I am not sure if I would be put off by Jason2112's comments. We live a very busy life here; so busy that I literally don't know (at times mind you) whether I am coming or going. For my family, and me the fact that the stores close early is an appealing thing. I would rather they did it here in TO!

On the issue of small cars, I think North America has got its attitude all messed up! Why do you need a hummer or a v-8? So what if it passes the emissions test? I wish they made it mandatory for car companies to make smaller and more fuel-efficient cars.

It is really hard for some people to adjust to anything "different" than what they are used to. I am guilty of that too. I guess what might come across as drawbacks for some are actually the reasons others make the move to NZ for. I think we need to take a serious look at the rampant consumerism and "living on the credit card lifestyle" we have here in North America.

The last point: most of the world does not call Sprite, Sprite. For the people in the continent, Sprite IS lemonade.

Cheers!

chips

2nd March 2006, 02:05 PM

Jason2112 ..... a very good post. Maybe I'm abit of a closet sicko but I always enjoy posts like yours. The reason being, I agree with alot of your comments (especially regarding ChCh) - and I sometimes feel that I must be in a different NZ to the people who post the all singing all dancing banner waving daisy chain comments on the forum.

I'm here, I like it, we'll stay (for now). Like you say, it's a 'nice' place but there's plenty of downsides but it sometimes feel it's taboo to mention them.

Good on you for making a trip over here to see what's what. Now you can make some informed decisions, free of rose tinted specs and glossy brochures. I sincerely hope that everything works out well for you, whichever route you decide to take. Keep us posted.

Diny
That what i like about you Diny. Your comments ring so to to me personally.
The rosetinted glasses buckled after a couple of months with the realisation of "Same poop, differant place ( this time with a larger garden, sheep, dog ,chicken etc).
I especailly like you ChristChurch comment too. Mind i have never been there, but it strike me ( from reading others posts) of Little England. So why shift here to NZ?
Ho hum everyone .. decisions decsions.....
(And the kids here are ,well strange I.M.O)

Chips

Diny

2nd March 2006, 03:22 PM

Al S ...... I don't think Jason's comments were meant to put anybody off, let's face it, we all know what WE want to do, everybody else's opinions are just that - personal opinions - none of us can really know how things will be for us until we walk the walk as well as talk the talk. It's all down to 'one mans meat is another mans poison'.

Chips - your comment about the kids over here ........ I'm with you on that one !!

All of us will find good and bad wherever we go. Some things will crank our chains - others will leave us flat. After all, that's what life's about. The trick is to keep everything in pospective and balanced.

Diny

Moorf

2nd March 2006, 03:31 PM

All of us will find good and bad wherever we go. Some things will crank our chains - others will leave us flat. After all, that's what life's about. The trick is to keep everything in pospective and balanced.

I started writing a long (and probably boring) post on peoples perspective on NZ places and then Diny posted hers and it pretty much summed it up.

We all come here for different reasons, from different stages of life, different lifesyles, aspirations, expectations and tolerances. Each place will mean something different to each person - find your own niche.

I'm almost embarrassed to say on this forum these days that we are here and are loving it, I really only have my one whinge about hoons and that's it. No rose specs here - just day to day reality and it's bloomin' marvellous...... can't compare cities but will be off to Welly soon so it will interesting, after others' observations, to see what we make of it.

jubjub

2nd March 2006, 04:27 PM

I'm almost embarrassed to say on this forum these days that we are here and are loving it, I really only have my one whinge about hoons and that's it. No rose specs here - just day to day reality and it's bloomin' marvellous.

Moorf you silly sausage, we like it here too, I agree with you 100% on the hoons, we live on a busy road and with the doors open to the deck can barely hear the telly sometimes (maybe thats just as well :p ), we noticed busy roads at other properties, dunno why this one went over our heads! Mind you, you live in the middle of nowhere and still get them. No escape I reckon.

Jason, I reckon you have got a hard decision to make, you say you will have little change in house/work/money, so guess it just comes down to location for you, you just need to pick where!

Jonathon1977

2nd March 2006, 04:47 PM

I had to really think how I wanted to reply. I must admit at first I was a bit mad but then thought about it and could actually see that the points being made were valid.

It is...

windy in Welly. I love the wind its never too hot and even walking to work right past Parliment I feel a bit in tune with Mother Nature.

true that there are not many doughnut shops but seeing that I got laid off from Krispy Kreme head quarters in Los Angeles and need to loose weight that’s a good thing.

true that you can't find paper towels. I think this is good too. I am a Liberal with my heart on my sleeve but you ever wonder how much energy and water its takes to recycle something! I would not call NZ quite green yet but they are working on it.

true that there are non-carbonated fountain drinks. I miss my lemonade and Hi-C fruit punch too. Can you ship me some?

very bland food compared to my In & Out Burger and Del Taco. Fast highly processed food taste sooooo much better. Adding onto your thought did you notice how expensive food was here! Good news is I eat less and much better than I did living in California.

hard to deal with the shops closing at 5pm. It's not all of them. You do have the Warehouse and other places which seem like they are well down the path of the Wal-Mart model. (I won't shop at these places.) Places that close at 5pm are either run by an owner/operator or someone who might also want to eat with their family. They do that here!

very behind the times, almost l like the US in the 60's. I wish I was not born until the late 70's but I get to live it up now. The cost and caps on the internet do bug me.

not the ideal place to do retail shopping. Do we really need all that crap we own? None of it made me any happier and at the end of the day I can find everything I need. Maybe not everything I want but what I need is here and even within walking distance.

I made a choice when I moved here to live a different life. I did not want to live like an American any longer. I don't hate America, wish I had been born a Kiwi, am not a socialist (yet), and probably will go back to the States at some point. I just wanted to live a different life. I am still very much connected to the "vast machine" (I work for a large government agency) but I did want to have less of a foot print in life. I also wanted more of a life that was no so consumer oriented. I was a hell of a lot better off in the US financially but I accepted that would not remain the same the minute I turned in my letter of resignation.

I feel much better about myself, am healthier, and really feel like I have my own spot in the world. What I found out about this post is that everyone on this board really has different reasons for moving to New Zealand or why they may want to move away from their own country. My reasons are very in tune with what the country is from my perspective.

Cheers Mates!

:cheers

toesonthenose

2nd March 2006, 05:26 PM

Jason and Jonathon,
Great insightful posts. I have been lurking this board for years and still have no serious intent on moving to NZ. I have a great life right where I am.
From my perspective though, NZ is a beautiful english speaking nation with reasonable job and educational oppurtunities, and an easy place to emigrate to from other english speaking cultures.
It is also not blowing up other countries, or sending thousands of their young men and women to get sucked into civil wars in far off lands. A very rare quality for english speaking nations these days. Isn't that right George, Tony, and Mr. Howard? Simply put, fizzy sodas aside, NZ is my escape hatch from the escalating American military involvment in the middle east, which I am unwilling to sacrifice my sons for.

Jason2112

2nd March 2006, 05:32 PM

I guess I should have emphasized that what I posted were merely my observations, which shouldn't necessarily be a topic for debate. That's why I listed good and bad points, though as I mentioned, there weren't really any 'bad' things, just 'different' things. The one thing that really put my fiance off was that prostitution is legal in NZ. Even though it's illegal here in the US yet still goes on everywhere, she doesn't understand why it's legal and (from what locals have told us) the prostitutes have their own labor union. It doesn't bother me so much, but I support her opinions.

Re: small cars - I'm 6'4" and I *have* to drive a large car/truck because I can't reasonably fit in anything smaller. I agree that most big trucks & SUV's aren't necessary for the average person who doesn't use them for what they were designed for, but I don't care how many km's a car gets on a litre of gas if I can't drive it ;)

Re: trading hours - while I don't see the need for stores to be open 24 hours in order to accomodate those few people who want to buy baby diapers at 3am, I'm still surprised that retail stores close early during weekdays. From a business standpoint, I don't see why you would purposely reduce your potential for sales between 5pm-7pm.

Re: kids - Sunday afternoon we were walking through downtown Wellington and we saw 2 groups of kids (teens probably) literally running around the streets, looking like they just got out of the bath. They all wore towels around them and shower caps. We kind of laughed and figured they were just happy to be clean :)

edsinclair

2nd March 2006, 06:02 PM

What do you mean the kids are strange?
Please elaborate.

I was in NZ for 7 weeks....went from the tip of the Northland all the way down to Dunedin & Queenstown. We visited several schools and talked with kids. I found the kids to be delightful, polite, and refreshing.

I am very curious what the "strange" part is...I don't want to be unpleasantly surprised.
There has been a lot of talk on the forum in the past re:kids having foul mouths...cussing in NZ.

We didn't hear any cussing on our trip to NZ.

Here in Hawaii, when you are at the local playgrounds you often hear the local children saying "f***ing"...every other word out of their mouth.

I appreciate everyone on the forum sharing their diverse views and opinions...I find it very interesting.

Chutney

2nd March 2006, 07:40 PM

Odd that, jason, because I'm 6'5" and I don't have to drive a large car, in fact I drive an Audi A2 which is one of the smallest cars on the road, but what it does have in it's favour for someone like me or you is that it's well designed. In fact I've never driven a big car - just not necessary, although going for A/C over a sun roof does help...

Ria

2nd March 2006, 07:47 PM

Why is it that if you decide to move somewhere else for a particular set of reasons, as soon as you get where you're going, you want to change the new place into the very thing you left (allegedly leaving the bad things out)!

The good and bad go together and sure enough, if you want all those 'extras' you're gonna get all the cr*p too. I'm not saying NZ is the answer to mine or anybody else's prayers. (Heck, I've never even been there yet!) But I want to go and check it out. Like someone else said, why do we always expect others to work to provide us with things when we want them, irrespective of their homelife.

I'm the first to admit I've shopped at midnight and on Sundays (10 years ago that wasn't so easy) but I'm an office worker - M-F 9-5ish - so weekends are my time (retail workers and hospitality jobs aren't like that - and nor are the essential services etc) but isn't this one of the main reasons for many people moving to NZ who have no family ties there - you want something different - you hanker after an earlier more simplistic style of existence - what the hell did people do before refridgerators were invented! Some modern things are fantastic - but I suspect - most making the move to NZ want a reason to leave them behind - or at least the 'get out' that the reason you can't have them is because you can't get them - and not because you have to voluntarily decide to forego them.

Just my humble opinion - and vive la difference - to all those here and there :D

K&CS

3rd March 2006, 03:29 AM

Jason, your comment on lemonade made me laugh. I remember going to the States for the first time with the kids and they were most put out when they asked for a lemonade and they got something completely different to a clear, sugary, fizzy vaguely lemon flavoured drink!! In the UK, drinks ending in 'ade' are fizzy pops which are meant to taste of the fruit mentioned in the prefix - ie lemonade, orangeade, cherryade (all of them disgusting actually). The lemonade you have over there is called 'tradtional lemonade' or 'cloudy lemonade' in the UK.

The only thing that puzzled me about your post was your comments on the lack of donut shops - I don't see what relevanace donut shops have to anything!! I don't think I've ever been in a donut shop in my life (in fact, not entirely sure I knew such a thing existed. I have seen 'Dunkin Donuts' in the States, but didn't think anyone actually went in there!). They're not good for you, you know (and taste pretty nasty to boot)!!

Seriously, hope you find what you're looking for, whether it's staying at home or moving abroad. Just out of interest though, what are your motives for considering NZ?

Kate

GeorgeM

3rd March 2006, 04:58 AM

I don't really want to get involved in the 'debate' here, but I'd like to make a few observations of Chch as a resident of almost 4 years.

Some people seem to detest the place, but these generally aren't residents. Many surveys of those who live in Chch claim to show that those who do live here are the most satisfied in NZ (and according to a story in the papers this morning amongst the healthiest as well). Perhaps some people read this as 'self satisfied' and this gets their backs up.

Perhaps it indicates that Chc isn't as good a place to visit as it is to live in. I've experienced life in many places, and I think that Chch is the easiest place to live in that I've found. It's easy to get around, there are plenty of education, cultural and sporting opportunites, practically empty beaches are 15 mins from the city centre and you can get out of the place (always a good indication of a city's value in my opinion) in no time at all.

Skiing is an hour and a bit from the edge of town and the climate such that at times of the year the cliche of skiing in the morning and surfing in the afternoon can be realities if you're that way inclined.

My point? If you're looking for this type of lifestyle don't be put off by those who have passed through and found it not to their taste. As jobs are not often easy to find here many residents have waited for years for the opportunity to get here and having arrived wouldn't leave for a pension, and IMO this speaks far more than a few first- or second-impressions.

jdbob

3rd March 2006, 05:36 AM

His reference to donut shops and police is based on an American stereotype about police always spending time in donut shops, especially when you need them :)

Diny

3rd March 2006, 05:40 AM

Edsinclair - as for my comment regarding the NZ youth. Not wanting to make any sweeping generalisations here, I'm fully aware that there's exceptions, but I just find that so many youngsters over here seem so dull - as if their pilot light has gone out. The occasional gutteral grunt in place of a hello or a goodbye. I certainly don't find them in the slightest way anywhere near the polite, bright, well adjusted young adults that some do.

As for this strange gangsta culture that seems SO VERY prevalent over here, now that's odd. Why anybody would try to be like some drug dealing rapper from the Bronx is beyond me. I just don't get it.

George ...... sorry if I sound like I'm having a go at ChCh (I'm sure I'm one of those you had in mind when you wrote your post). I don't mean to knock it. I was simply disappointed when I visited there in January, I'd had my expectations 'built up' and sadly, IMHO, reality didn't live up to those expectations. I don't live there so have no idea what the city is really like, I can only go on what I found during my 3 day visit. Sincere aplologies if my comments seemed unfair, that was not my intention.

Diny

Diny

3rd March 2006, 05:42 AM

As an after thought ..... all I can say is THANK GOD there's no donut shops in NZ !!! For a woman with the will power of tissue paper like me that can only be a good thing.

Diny

Toronto_Kiwi

3rd March 2006, 06:01 AM

As an after thought ..... all I can say is THANK GOD there's no donut shops in NZ !!! For a woman with the will power of tissue paper like me that can only be a good thing.

Diny

You must NEVER visit southern Ontario. If I opened the window from my office building I could throw a stone at five stores that sell donuts.

I did see someone selling donuts in Auckland but they were little mini bite size things at the 'Symphony Under the Stars' and only kids were buying them.

GeorgeM

3rd March 2006, 06:47 AM

George ...... sorry if I sound like I'm having a go at ChCh (I'm sure I'm one of those you had in mind when you wrote your post). I don't mean to knock it. I was simply disappointed when I visited there in January, I'd had my expectations 'built up' and sadly, IMHO, reality didn't live up to those expectations. I don't live there so have no idea what the city is really like, I can only go on what I found during my 3 day visit. Sincere aplologies if my comments seemed unfair, that was not my intention.I'm sure that no offence was intended and certainly none was taken.

I just wanted to make the point that there is a great deal of difference between visiting a place and living in it - some places that are great to visit could be hell to live in, and vice versa. As many people use this forum from afar trying to make some sort of plans for what could be one of the largest events of their lifetimes it's important that they bear this in mind. Queenstown is a great place to visit, but I'd hate to live there!

Richard_from_Long Beach

3rd March 2006, 07:31 AM

I completely agree with George M on ChCh - I lived there for six months on a tourist visa and thought it was the best place I've ever lived--and I move around a lot.

As for the kids acting "gangsta" - it is pathetic, and a little comical when you've lived around the real thing. No way is it worse in NZ than here in the U.S.

clg

3rd March 2006, 07:31 AM

Some comments. I am also tall, 6'4", and have not had a problem fitting into smaller cars. I am really glad all of the trucks and SUVs are not here. Also glad there are no Harleys we used to live by the beach and got very sick of them and of all the cars in summer, we don't have hoons around our house here so it is nice and quiet and I dont' really hear them much in the city. LA was much worse for loud cars/motercycles.

Junk/fast food is not as good here as in LA. I do miss Mexican but I have also discovered that because I walk more than in LA and eat healther, which is easier. I have lost a few pounds.

Really depends on what your reasons on coming here are based on, it is right for some people and not others. Sounds like you are finding out it is not good for you and it is better to find that now than once you have moved! Hearing your comments I don't think NZ is right for you.

I can't say we will stay here forever, but I do know the only way I would go back to LA is if I was paid a disgusting ammount of money and I viewed it as a temporary thing. I am a third generation southern californian and there are things I love about the place but it is not working anymore traffic gets worse every year and I end up giving up things I like because it is too hard, or time consuming, or crowded to do them.

I love Wellington and I think the wind is overrated. It is strong at times but not all the time and it is much more noticeable by the waterfront where tourists tend to spend a lot of time.

Chris

Moorf

3rd March 2006, 07:34 AM

When we first landed in Chch I was so excited, and then we were driven from the airport, to Sumner, via Lyttleton (at my request as I was dying to see this little port).

I was horrified. I almost cried. My first impression of the place was awful. The road taken around the outskirts took me past empty wasteland (which I now know to be "sections") and past malls and hicksville streets. It got worse when I finally saw Lyttleton in the flesh - not the pretty postcard port I'd seen on the internet and in brochures! And it was smelly (don't even mention the drunk Russian sailors!).

Sumner, on the other hand, boosted my morale - thank god - and gave us a good base to work from.

For us, the infrastructure in Chch is great, location superb, facilities great - but I think it does take a while to get used to the place.

But hey, we're glad it doesn't suit everyone otherwise Canterbury would become far too crowded :D

marcia

3rd March 2006, 07:36 AM

I just wanted to make the point that there is a great deal of difference between visiting a place and living in it - some places that are great to visit could be hell to live in, and vice versa.

Hence our reccy trip. Ok we were on 'holiday' and it was 'summer' but you have to try and look at places thinking 'could we live here really?'

And still the answer is 'don't know.'

Being in a place for a few days, and living, shopping, working, banking etc there are two different things.

But hell we'll be moving 12,000 miles to the other side of the world, whats a few hundred more if we have to move areas?? Another good reason to rent property first before you commit to buy! IMO

Great honest posts by the way everyone, we can't all agree on everything but you have to value and respect other peoples opinions, which is why this is such a good forum, people can be honest and post their positive and negative opinions of New Zealand, some will agree, others may totally disagree, but thats what makes us individuals!! :clap

Avalon

3rd March 2006, 09:08 AM

Why is it that if you decide to move somewhere else for a particular set of reasons, as soon as you get where you're going, you want to change the new place into the very thing you left (allegedly leaving the bad things out)!

Im really not sure that anyone on here does - most people dont anyway.If only it were that simple :)

What most of us do is give our opinions and observations, and of course that means we compare what we find in NZ to what we know at home - wherever that may be - the good and the bad. Also please bear in mind that for many of us- this emigrating lark has taken us so far out of our comfort zones that we are no longer in the same universe as we were. For some people its a constant struggle to deal with often minor differences. That does not mean they want to change NZ into the country they left - it just means the adjustments are hard and sometimes overwhelming.

For me- my dissapointments are less to do with the differences between the Uk and NZ and more to do with the differences in what NZ really is and what I was led to believe it is. NZIS do a real good job of talking it up imho, as do most people at Expos. They have a vested interest. But NZ is not "clean and green" "100% pure" and it aint cheap to live here. Most people do not in fact finish work at 5pm so they can head to the beach for a picnic with thier families - some do but many are either still working or commuting.

Does any of this mean that I want NZ to become the UK? Hell no! But I do wish that NZ would live up to the expectations it sets when trying to bring us all over here. Too many people are finding that the dream is not what they thought it was, but by then NZ has taken a huge chunk of thier savings, which while really helping the NZ economy - doesnt do an awful lot for the migrants who have to go home.

So please dont think that when people give a "less than picture perfect" view of NZ, that they are trying to change NZ. In most cases these people are trying the help those still to come by giving the bad to go with the good. I really think that both views are equally valid and deserve to be said - and heard. Moorf needs to able to say she loves living here, and Diny needs to be able to say she doesnt. Out of those - you can at least get a sence of the fact that it is not straightforward - and hopefully when you come you will not be as shocked as some of us have been when faced with problems we were not expecting.

PS. 5 foot nothing - hate driving small cars unless its an MX5 or a mini ;)

StevieD

3rd March 2006, 09:26 AM

Told you it would get the comments going didn't I??!!

Lots of valid points - not having been on a recce, we are going on what people tell us on the forum and what NZIS/other websites say.

From watching "warts and all" programmes on TV, it seems no worse than where we currently live. Indeed it seems positively more attractive when you consider Liverpool is something of a "gangsta paradise" of late. 14 reenagers shot in the last 14 months in 2 areas alone not too far from where I live.
As for moving to another place, each place on the planet will have it's own merits, however small. It is not to say that all places appeal to all people. I wouldn't consider moving to London because I know that I couldn't live there, the same goes for lots of places in UK. New Zealand is appealing to us because it is different. We want a change from what we are used to, so we are going to go for it. If it works, fine, if not, we have to see if we can do something else... but that's a decision that we will not take lightly, the same as the decision we have taken to move to NZ was not taken lightly.

sizzlingbadger

3rd March 2006, 09:58 AM

Have to say Wellington really ain't that windy, we spent three months renting there before moving out to Featherston, it's far windy here than there.

I also disagree with what some of you have said about the kids being quiet, 'like the pilot light has gone out'. I've seen the complete opposite the kids are bright, willing to give everything a go, love to say 'hello' and ask what your days been like. I know quite a few of the older kids in school just dropping off my eldest. They seem to all have a fantastic zest for life and aren't obssessed with computer games and television in general like most UK kids.

Things are different here and some for the better others for the worse.

I happen to love NZ and feel very privileged to be able to live here.

GeorgeM

3rd March 2006, 10:02 AM

I also disagree with what some of you have said about the kids being quiet, 'like the pilot light has gone out'. I've seen the complete opposite the kids are bright, willing to give everything a go, love to say 'hello' and ask what your days been like. I know quite a few of the older kids in school just dropping off my eldest. They seem to all have a fantastic zest for life and aren't obssessed with computer games and television in general like most UK kids.That's been my impression on the whole also, and I too am a bit curious about some of the comments made in this area as they seem to be so much at odds with my own experience (in both hemispheres).

Perhaps there's something in the water in certain parts of NZ (and the UK) which acts positively or negatively on our young ones?

Diny

3rd March 2006, 12:46 PM

That's been my impression on the whole also, and I too am a bit curious about some of the comments made in this area as they seem to be so much at odds with my own experience (in both hemispheres).

Perhaps there's something in the water in certain parts of NZ (and the UK) which acts positively or negatively on our young ones?

This could be one of those strange enigmas. Try as I might, I just haven't seen any evidence at all that NZ youngsters are brighter, more intelligent, polite and well adjusted than the kids 'back home'. It simply isn't the case - in my humble opinion anyway. Could this be another one of those subjects that all depends on where you come from/your previous experiences?

Diny

sizzlingbadger

3rd March 2006, 02:27 PM

Seems to be a where you come from/own experiences opinion.

Still can't believe one of my closest friends children still call me 'Mrs ...' rather than by my first name. My youngest is with a group of 8-10 children all two in the last month. If ever there's a zest of life it's with them, they're all water babies and willing to give anything a go. Just haven't seen any of what you've described Diny. My kids definitely found it very hard to make friends back in the UK and I noticed most of my mother and baby groups children all to be tv addicts 95% of the time and most of them are now stuggling with school. Never in the UK did I get an 11 year old saying 'hello' to me when they walked down the street outside of school with friends, here it happens on many occasion.

May be it's because we live in a small town where everyone knows everyone else.

Amerikiwi

3rd March 2006, 06:29 PM

Really interesting to view all the different perspectives about starting a new life in a new place... and there`s a lot of truth in just about everyone`s viewpoints, too.
As an American who`s always lived near or in large cities, the differences between life back in America and life in N.Z. were huge... but N.Z. appealed to me hugely in spite of having far fewer conveniences available than I`ve always known, and after arriving in N.Z. as a visitor, I knew that I`d be coming back to N.Z., it would be to stay.
I can`t help thinking that many people move to a new country to escape the things they don`t like about their old one, but are also looking for the best of both worlds. Their favorite fast food joints, favorite stores for shopping, etc., but without the hustle and bustle, crime, or the cheapening of society that`s inevitably a by-product of living in a fast paced, "progress" oriented society. You just can`t have your cake and eat it too, I suppose, so you have to accept the good with the bad that moving to a new country has to offer, ask yourself if you`ve really had enough of life in your native country, and decide from there.
In my case, I`m happy living in N.Z., in spite of the things I miss. Yes, I wish houses were cheaper, all homes had fly screens on the windows, that I could save as much money as I did while doing the same job in America, and my favorite N.F.L. football games were televised here every Sunday, as they are back in America... but I also love the views out my car window every day,
the fact that New Zealand made it easy for me to emigrate here, life is simpler here (a big appeal for me), and the people are down to earth and accepting of others, for the most part.
I no longer live in a country where most of us somehow seem to believe all other countries of the world revolve around and look up to us... an erroneous and unjustified perception many Americans have been taught to believe. In New Zealand, none of that matters.
Basically, I`m quite "content" living here in N.Z., and I suppose that`s all any of us can really hope for, no matter where we choose to live.

katandbob

3rd March 2006, 06:30 PM

Avalon

3rd March 2006, 09:04 PM

But I like to read the 'observations' that everyone puts, as in the end ALL information helps you to make your own decisions.....you dont have to agree or disagree, Just read them

Kat

Yay! :clap :clap :clap

JJG

3rd March 2006, 10:22 PM

Debbie P.

4th March 2006, 12:46 AM

This could be one of those strange enigmas. Try as I might, I just haven't seen any evidence at all that NZ youngsters are brighter, more intelligent, polite and well adjusted than the kids 'back home'. It simply isn't the case - in my humble opinion anyway. Could this be another one of those subjects that all depends on where you come from/your previous experiences?

Diny

From what you've said, they sound just like the "delightful" kids my husband teaches in so-called leafy Bournemouth. The grunt in place of hello, in particular! If the light IS going out with some kids, it's not just in NZ...

willsken

4th March 2006, 01:23 AM

Yup, sounds like the nicer of the bunch in my school! :laugh

jen

4th March 2006, 02:56 AM

Yep, lack of donut shops is another incentive to move since I find them irresistable :) The only donuts I remember were at an outdoor market in welly & they were fresh-made and delicious so I'm glad to know that's not a NZ-wide phenomenon. Though I remember getting pastries in the mornings at bakeries which were very good, even if I had to point at what I wanted since most of them are "danish" to me and turned out to be something like a "chelsea bun" ?!

I really appreciated the prevalence of smaller cars since I live in the land of huge SUVs and extended-cab pickups that never leave the pavement. I get very tired of the consumer culture here where it seems to be your patriotic duty to buy more "stuff" to keep the economy going (the endless stories starting at Thanksgiving about "will this be a good holiday for retailers?" are most sad to me - talk about missing the point!). On the lighter side, we noticed a lack of Italian restaurants and of course Mexican (sigh), but I guess it does all compare to where you're coming from since I read complaints about curries & we had 3 great-to-us Indian dinners and loved all the fresh seafood at good prices.

Thanks everyone for posting their impressions - I'll keep them in mind when we go on our 'week in wellington' recce trip next month. I really hope we get a strong feeling one way or the other as to moving - I'm one of those people who never seems to get the internal "voice" saying 'moving here is your destiny' or 'take this job', so I end up agonizing over decisions endlessly!

Toronto_Kiwi

4th March 2006, 03:06 AM

Have to say Wellington really ain't that windy, we spent three months renting there before moving out to Featherston, it's far windy here than there.

The wind in Wellington seems to drive some people crazy and doesn't bother others at all. I don't even remember it being that windy when I was a kid staying with my grandparents in Khandallah. My cousin moved away from Wellington because the wind drove him nuts even though he prefers the social atmosphere in that city to Auckland's scene.

Diny

4th March 2006, 05:03 AM

From what you've said, they sound just like the "delightful" kids my husband teaches in so-called leafy Bournemouth. The grunt in place of hello, in particular! If the light IS going out with some kids, it's not just in NZ...

I totally agree. I'm not saying NZ youngsters are any worse than back home, I'm just saying that IMHO they are no better. I think I've done this one to death anyway, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I promise that the first time I experience a cheery 'hello' from a bright eyed, chatty young thing on the streets over here I'll dash right home and report it on the forum and will do so while eating a huge slice of humble pie (with custard).

Diny

clg

4th March 2006, 06:22 AM

Jen,

As someone else from LA sounds like you have a good attitude about moving here. Good luck with your trip. I can say it is never an easy decision and I rarely had moments where I did not not have doubts.

Seafood and indian are both very good here by my standards. I have had a fair ammount of indian in the UK and don't really see much difference here except it costs less than we were paying in london and the portions are better, then we did not really know where to go there. We have one place near us, Dawat, we go to a lot that we are quite happy with them. You can get good italian here.

Good luck with your trip!

Chris

Diny

4th March 2006, 06:54 AM

Seafood and fish here are out of this world. Even the battered fish from the local chippy is wonderful - so fresh and tasty.

Diny

David with a dream

4th March 2006, 08:33 AM

Diny just have to say I LOVE reading your posts :clap :clap :raebanana you really say it as it is. We had a few days in Chch and could'nt really see the 'little England' thing at all, perhaps that's just me though :no . But man the houses in some area's of the city, all I'm saying is if the big bad wolf comes a blowin!!!........................Great post and like I say Diny, LOVE it.
David

Avalon

4th March 2006, 01:25 PM

On the lighter side, we noticed a lack of Italian restaurants and of course Mexican (sigh),
Thanks everyone for posting their impressions - I'll keep them in mind when we go on our 'week in wellington' recce trip next month.

Jen,#

You could try "Flying Burrito Brothers" on cuba St. Ive not been myself, but ive heard good things about it!

Avalon

4th March 2006, 01:28 PM

The wind in Wellington seems to drive some people crazy and doesn't bother others at all. I don't even remember it being that windy when I was a kid staying with my grandparents in Khandallah. My cousin moved away from Wellington because the wind drove him nuts even though he prefers the social atmosphere in that city to Auckland's scene.
I lived in the city center for 9 months and can say it really really is exceptionaly strong. On some days the wind was actually blowing people backwards. Add on to that just how seriously cold it can get too and it really can cause misery for some people.

Cant comment on what its like in the burbs cos I didnt live there, but in the city it can be really horrid.

clg

4th March 2006, 02:40 PM

Wind in the city is often much stonger than where we live, Khandallah where we are protected from northerlies. My office is on the waterfront and often I walk outside and it is like hitting a wall of wind. But then I go home and there is much less. There are certain areas downtown where you get a wind tunnel effect and it is really strong then. Last night there were gusts with a sourtherly up to 140k but it has not been that strong for a while. I have never been pushed around by the wind and find it sort of fun but I am also 6' 4" and not easily moved!

I can say it is very windy here but it does not really bother me but I can see how it would bother some people.

For fairly good Mexican food try Viva Mexico in the international food court by Te Papa. Just a little stand but good.

Jason2112

6th March 2006, 12:08 PM

Some of the comments in this thread make me laugh. I think some people are a little too sensitive, and possibly take themselves a little too seriously. Diny, Avalon, and a few others understood my posts, but a few others seemed to have taken offense to it. My purpose of posting my thoughts was not to offend anyone, nor to bash NZ. I'd like to wrap this thread up with a few comments:

- I found NZ to be a very charming place. It reminded me a lot of the midwest (US) - small communities, simple ways of life, etc. That is a good thing. But I live a fast-paced lifestyle in Southern California, it's all I've ever known. I am used to having many options for food, shopping, entertainment, etc. NZ kind of caught me off guard, and in a sense, I was a little disappointed based on how I have been living. It would be a big lifestyle change for me, something I'm not so sure I can deal with.

- In no way would I want to make NZ more like California. There are some things that I like about California that I wish existed in NZ, but it's not my place to change NZ to accomodate me.

- The comments about donut shops were funny. I know they are unhealthy, but it was just an observation that there weren't any donut shops in the cities we visited. And yes, I purposely tied cops and donuts together (sorry it went over some peoples' heads).

- The comment about Americans thinking they are the center of the universe is blatantly incorrect. It's not Americans thinking this way on our own, it's actually other parts of the world who feed this kind of mentality. The US has influenced so many countries in the world, by way of music, film, sports, education, and politics. Turn on your radio and tell me how many songs you hear from a US band/artist. One of our bus drivers in Wellington had an American flag hanging from his mirror, and his accent was so thick he made Margaret Thatcher sound American :) Unfortunately, most people outside the US focus mostly on our political strategies (however positive or negative they may be) and that seems to overshadow all of the other ways the US has influenced other nations. I'm not an American loyalist, but I do see beyond all of the political media hype and see the other ways that other countries embrace American culture. Just something to think about....

Thanks for all of the input. It doesn't necessarily change my mind about NZ, but it has made me think a little harder about what my motivation is for moving to NZ (or out of the US) and what I would hope to gain from it.

Cheers!

Toronto_Kiwi

7th March 2006, 03:35 AM

okay - I know you're trying to wrap up this thread but your summary comment on donuts forced me to post one more thing I really liked about Christchurch. I feel entitled since I live in the undisputed donut capital of the world.

Try-Sushi! I love these triangular sushi snacks and I only know two places that sell them in Toronto. They're filled with rice with some variety of meat in the centre and have a seaweed wrapping with easily removed plastic packaging that prevents the seaweed from getting damp. Try-Sushi is the snack antithesis to the donut. It is available at every convenience mart in Christchurch. I didn't go looking for them anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's just a Christchurch thing. I guess this is one of the benefits (IMHO) of the influx of Japanese tourists.

Diny

7th March 2006, 06:40 AM

It is available at every convenience mart in Christchurch. I didn't go looking for them anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's just a Christchurch thing.

No - not just a ChCh thing, Sushi stalls are just about everywhere. They're good too !!

Diny

Smiler

7th March 2006, 08:10 AM

I feel hard done by if I can't have sushi for lunch :D

at least every day. :exit

Singel

7th March 2006, 09:41 AM

Seafood and fish here are out of this world. Even the battered fish from the local chippy is wonderful - so fresh and tasty.

Diny
Totally agreed. :clap :clap :clap :clap

Singel

7th March 2006, 09:46 AM

Try-Sushi is the snack antithesis to the donut. It is available at every convenience mart in Christchurch. I didn't go looking for them anywhere else so I'm not sure if it's just a Christchurch thing. I guess this is one of the benefits (IMHO) of the influx of Japanese tourists.
Sushi is also found in shops and shopping malls in Auckland.

Yes, SUSHI :nice1

StevieD

7th March 2006, 11:29 AM

2112's comments are true. Surely there can't be any nation worse than the Brits for trying to change the world to fit around them? Look at any continental holiday resort - Eeenglish breakfasts(none of that foreign muck!), the Sun and Mirror on the table, everybody has to speak English of course, if they don't they get mocked.....
We have to respect the ways of that country that you visit or relocate to, not expect to mould it to what you left behind - after all, isn't that the reason for moving in the first place? Well said Jason, I fully agree with your reasoning for the visit, wish we could afford to do the same at this moment, but as we can't we'll just have to be surprised :)

macs gold

14th March 2006, 03:42 PM

...For me- my dissapointments are less to do with the differences between the Uk and NZ and more to do with the differences in what NZ really is and what I was led to believe it is...

...But I do wish that NZ would live up to the expectations it sets when trying to bring us all over here. Too many people are finding that the dream is not what they thought it was, but by then NZ has taken a huge chunk of thier savings, which while really helping the NZ economy - doesnt do an awful lot for the migrants who have to go home....

Not sure how a country goes about "living up to" your expectations.

From my understanding, the number of immigrants who return home from NZ is no higher than for other countries, especially considering the country's isolation and associated impact on being homesick.

Immigration departments the world over are given targets, and in NZ's case it is to attract and process productive immigrants who will integrate successfully. They provide quite a bit of information, most of it I think fairly balanced. At some point, the immigrants themselves have to take responsibility for finding out stuff for themselves, or take the risk that there might be something really important they don't know.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a go at anyone, but I get confused when somebody starts pointing the finger at NZ, as if the country itself was at fault somehow.

Immigration is not a dream, its a really serious business. Of course NZ is not going to live up to a dream! Nor will any other country.

ruthyroo

15th March 2006, 06:32 AM

Not sure how a country goes about "living up to" your expectations.

Sorry, I don't mean to have a go at anyone, but I get confused when somebody starts pointing the finger at NZ, as if the country itself was at fault somehow.

You're totally right - despite all the skilled-english-speaking-migrants-we-love-you-come-and-live-in-our-city advertising, the reality is that the marketing men are paid to attract us to NZ - and they really don't give a stuff whether the product lives up to the expectations that they (and we) create. It's the same for advertising anything - accentuate the positive, disguise the negative. I guess when we feel disappointed or misled it's natural to look for someone to blame. But it's definitely caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!! That's why it is so important to bin all your preconceptions at the airport on arival and take it as it comes!

Avalon

15th March 2006, 10:31 AM

Sorry, I don't mean to have a go at anyone, but I get confused when somebody starts pointing the finger at NZ, as if the country itself was at fault somehow.

Immigration is not a dream, its a really serious business. Of course NZ is not going to live up to a dream! Nor will any other country.
Dont think you are having a go ;)

I didnt though - I have pointed the finger at the less-than honest information that is given by NZIS and stats NZ regarding life in NZ.

And i also cannot aggree that immigration is not a dream. Yes its serious - and im afraid that many of us do in fact spend a huge amount of time, effort and money researching that dream. With the best will in the world - you are likely to overlook something. And for many people it does in fact live up to thier dreams - just not for everyone.

And where it doesnt - it should not be constantly assumed that those people want to change NZ into whatever they left or are pointing blame. My observations are just that - MY OBSERVATIONS. Most people with dissapointmenst or dislikes are still here - living thier "dream" and facing the challenges posed by that. Why should people be made to feel ashamed or stupid because they dont like everything about the country??? Because there are things that do challenge them??? Because they believed what NZIS told them??? Because there was something they didnt think about in thier research???

Maybe its just me - but I'd find life utterly depressing if we cant expect anything to live up to our dreams. If you cant - why on earth bother dreaming about a better life at all????

Immigration IS serious - adn so is it's effect on the people who do it. Its a bit unfair imho to expect everyone who does it to do it 100% right. Can anyone actually claim to have done that???? Made absolutley NO mistakes in what they thought NZ was going to be like???? I Know I cant.

macs gold

15th March 2006, 11:41 AM

Dont think you are having a go ;)

I didnt though - I have pointed the finger at the less-than honest information that is given by NZIS and stats NZ regarding life in NZ.

And i also cannot aggree that immigration is not a dream. Yes its serious - and im afraid that many of us do in fact spend a huge amount of time, effort and money researching that dream. With the best will in the world - you are likely to overlook something. And for many people it does in fact live up to thier dreams - just not for everyone.

And where it doesnt - it should not be constantly assumed that those people want to change NZ into whatever they left or are pointing blame. My observations are just that - MY OBSERVATIONS. Most people with dissapointmenst or dislikes are still here - living thier "dream" and facing the challenges posed by that. Why should people be made to feel ashamed or stupid because they dont like everything about the country??? Because there are things that do challenge them??? Because they believed what NZIS told them??? Because there was something they didnt think about in thier research???

Maybe its just me - but I'd find life utterly depressing if we cant expect anything to live up to our dreams. If you cant - why on earth bother dreaming about a better life at all????

Immigration IS serious - adn so is it's effect on the people who do it. Its a bit unfair imho to expect everyone who does it to do it 100% right. Can anyone actually claim to have done that???? Made absolutley NO mistakes in what they thought NZ was going to be like???? I Know I cant.

ok - we are probably saying much the same thing,

except I'm not aware of how NZIS is misleading. Maybe its mentioned on other threads you have posted to, and I'm sorry I don't have time to trawl through them. Perhaps you could highlight the particular information you have issues with.
I thought NZIS did fairly well at recommending people do lots of research. They also have links to this very forum, which on the whole seems relatively balanced.

Now please forgive me if I'm over-generalising here - but in my opinion it is human nature to focus on the positives when going through massive life changes (like immigration). Or if not human nature, at least there is a selection bias; ie. those who think negatively will pull out and not make the change. That's why you get lots of new people on this and other forums absoluting hanging out for the positive news, looking for stories that tell them it will be a wonderful move to come to NZ. They may also elect not to follow up any nagging doubts they come across, and it may also be more exciting to make the move as a bit of a leap in faith. That's peoples choice, and as long as at some point they are self conscious enough to know the risks, thats fine by me.

So at the risk of contradicting myself, maybe immigrating is for some people a dream. Maybe you wake up and its real, maybe you wake up and you're disappointed.

In essence I don't expect immigrants need to be spoon fed...NZ will suit some people and not others, it is up to individuals to evaluate the info for themselves.

And another thing I agree with you on, no matter how much research one does, there will normally be something that you can not predict. Thats the nature of the beast. There is always some element of a "leap in faith" - a bit of luck and ability to adapt both help.

Diny

15th March 2006, 01:32 PM

Most people with dissapointmenst or dislikes are still here - living thier "dream" and facing the challenges posed by that. Why should people be made to feel ashamed or stupid because they dont like everything about the country??? .

Well said. I make no secret of the fact that there's alot of things I dislike about NZ. I also make no secret of the fact that, in the past, I've been on the receiving end of a few harsh comments from people trying to make out they are 'better' (for the want of a better word) because they eat, drink, sleep, breath and generally crawl into every crevice NZ has to offer. I don't feel foolish or ashamed, I just feel that I have a grip on my own personal reality without a pair of rose tinted specs in sight.

I'm here, we're settled, happy, comfortable and moving ahead in leaps and bounds, but just because I don't claim that NZ is THE best country in the world (wouldn't it be nice to be qualified to make such a statement) doesn't mean I want to change NZ or that I am failing.

Hope this makes sense.

Diny

macs gold

15th March 2006, 01:48 PM

...Hope this makes sense.

Diny

Indeed it does!

Avalon

15th March 2006, 03:01 PM

Here goes Mac:

regarding NZIS and misleading info. Yeah - ive probably posted it somewhere - but Id have a hard job finding it too! :D However - as a "general" observation - theres some on page 1 of this thread. Now I do have to say that its worth remembering my dealings with NZIS and stats NZ were 2-3 years ago - so maybe they rae being a bit more realistic. It wasnt for us.

Something interesting I did find - and Ive tried to find the numbers but I cant - was Stats NZ Cost of living figures. We based a lot of info on those - and then apart from having figured out ourselves that it really wasnt too close to the mark - I attended a Finance Serminar with a wildly different set of figures. Many people in the seminar were shocked by the numbers (much more in line with we had found) and asked where the numbers came from - Stats NZ. As I said - I just dont have the numbers to qoute - really sorry :o

I think this comes down to that NZIS is in fact a PR Company for NZ. They DO have a vested interested in not telling it "warts and all" - so obviously the stuff they say isnt all going to be entirely honest.

That's why you get lots of new people on this and other forums absoluting hanging out for the positive news, looking for stories that tell them it will be a wonderful move to come to NZ

Regarding this - from my POV - it would be really useful if people would make it clear when they dont want to hear anything that isnt "100% Pure". It would sure save me a whole load of time formulating sometimes complicated replies which then come back and bite me :D

Hugs

Moorf

15th March 2006, 03:27 PM

I remember when I first joined the forum it was a criminal offence to mention anything negative about NZ, god forbid!

Now it seems that to be too positive is also discouraged.

I'm one of those who are unashamedly in love with NZ and I guess we are one of those couples that get in and under everything NZ has to offer and we make a point of doing just that. I don't feel misled by any authorities, but then I never take any info like that at face value - especially when government generated!! I spoke to Kiwi's, joined forums, joined mailing lists, did virtual shops online, visited supermarkets online, car showrooms, insurance quote, mortgage quotes, asked lots of questions about the stupidest of things and I think we came here with a pretty realistic view on what it would be like.

Just as it's true that those who don't like everything about NZ haven't failed, it's as true to say that those of us who love it here aren't all wearing rose tinted specs.

Having said that, for us moving to NZ wasn't a dream, it was an adventure and if we liked it great, if we hated it then we would move on..... perhaps that means I didn't have to "convince" myself it was all positives? Who knows...

Ultimately you come to forums to discuss and to inform and to share information - as was said above, it's up to members to do what they will with that info. No one person is right or wrong, imho, different eyes, different views.

macs gold

15th March 2006, 03:42 PM

15th March 2006, 04:17 PM

It'd be interesting to compare the anticipation for the move to NZ of those who are basically itching to leave their current country/circumstances, and those who are basically happy with their current life and location.

We, I think, were in the latter category, as my wordy posts over the last year or two have suggested!

For us, then, the anticipation had quite a lot to do with the (perceived) qualities of where we were moving to than it did with the push factors of leaving.

For me, the telling feeling was that if our application to NZ had been conclusively turned down we would by no means have been seriously sad to 'stay put' where we were. That's significant not only in itself but also because we have not had an overwhelming feeling of relief in being in NZ. Delight, yes... but not relief of having escaped particularly trying circumstances. We were too content where we were to be candidates for that kind of feeling of enormous contrast. We had got used to, for example, space, lovely scenery, friendliness and a general milieu of American plenty and optimism (not that we had much money personally)... all of which have either equivalents or substitutues in NZ. By the by, I hope it's really obvious that I'm not saying that the US and NZ are interchangeable!!! Much of our love of NZ are the things about it that seem unique or special.

It'd just be interesting to compare. But what I'm certainly not suggesting is any concrete formula whereby, say, those who are in the "basically happy where we were pre-NZ" camp are somehow less dedicated to NZ or -- conversely -- are in less peril of disillusionment or a crash after initial relief.

Avalon

15th March 2006, 04:31 PM

Just as it's true that those who don't like everything about NZ haven't failed, it's as true to say that those of us who love it here aren't all wearing rose tinted specs

No one person is right or wrong, imho, different eyes, different views.[/color]

Absolutley! I guess this sums it up - and I know ive said this earlier - but we can only give our observations. Whether we love NZ, hate NZ or sit somewhere in the middle. All observations are valid - and while i think its fair to disagree with someones observations - I dont think its at all on to attack someone because of it.

And lets face it Moorf - you for one are not someone who is likely to be looking through any tint on thier specs :D Hugs

Hannah

15th March 2006, 04:54 PM

This thread sums up the strength of this forum - that it is full of so many varying and honest views and opinions. I've lurked on this forum for over a year reading these different viewpoints - and logged of thinking 'can't believe we're doing this' along with 'can't wait to get there'. Ultimately nothing i read influenced my decision in terms of whether to come here or not, but it gave me a reality check that probably made my early days in no-mans-land on arrival that bit more easier. It's also supplied me with endless amounts of good solid information that helped with putting together my PR application. It's been a good sounding board for worries and an entertaining read (such as in the 'likes and dislikes' post).

Some will come here, some will stay behind, for some it will be the right decision and for others not. There is no right decision, we just all chose what is right for us. This forum allows us to think aloud while we make that decision.

Thanks to all who take time to post on here. It's helped me immensely - emotionally, practically and humourously!!

ruthyroo

16th March 2006, 06:57 AM

One of the things that might add to the general confusion, is that the average NZ wage seems fairly low, and yet most NZ families are surviving just fine. NZ has a bit of poverty, but nothing too unusual.

So when immigrants get jobs offering above average wages, they sometimes think great, we'll be fine.

Where that seems to fall down is that somehow the average kiwi gets by on a lot less money than would acceptable to the average immigrant from the UK/US and other "richer" OECD countries.

Those average cost of living stats might in fact be fairly accurate. The real question then arises of how the hell does the average kiwi survive financially.

I think you're totally right (again). Although I am probably mad to quote statistics here without being able to back myself up, I think I read in the NZ Herald recently that something like 80% of kiwis in employment earn less than $40K a year - no wonder so many head to Oz.

The answer to your last question is pretty straightforward. 'Average' kiwis don't go on holiday abroad - they go camping or to the family bach. They shop in the warehouse and pak n save. They eat a lot of mince and sausages. They wear clothes till they fall apart and they shop in Op shops for second hand stuff. They drive cars until they fall apart. They buy second hand everything when they can. They grow their own veggies. They drink wine out of boxes not bottles. They do their washing on the cold setting. They don't heat their houses. They don't spend a fortune getting their hair highlighted every 6 weeks (!) They don't (generally) drink in pubs (how many good pubs have you come across in NZ??) and they don't eat out often. They socialise at home or in each other's homes. I've lost count of the number of BBQ's and home cooked dinners we've been invited to over the last 18 months - but never once has a kiwi suggested going out for a meal - unless work was paying for it! They don't save for the future - but they do hang onto property instead.

Average is just a word - it doesn't mean the same thing across borders.

Someone commented on the 'cheap living' thread that 'this isn't what we came to NZ to do'. Well actually IMHO that thread represents a lot about how 'average' kiwis live and how they survive on the 'average' family income.

macs gold

16th March 2006, 09:55 AM

....They don't (generally) drink in pubs (how many good pubs have you come across in NZ??) and they don't eat out often. They socialise at home or in each other's homes. I've lost count of the number of BBQ's and home cooked dinners we've been invited to over the last 18 months - but never once has a kiwi suggested going out for a meal - unless work was paying for it!....

There are actually more good cafes or wine bars around than pubs. Ones I like in Dunedin are Ra Bar, Hydro, Bean Scene, Ombrellos, Ale House, and I've heard the new Tui Pub down by the Oval is good.

Eating out - well I admit I've never had to wait for a table, but then again most Dunedin restaurants seem to do good business, at least from Wednesday through Sunday.

macs gold

16th March 2006, 10:12 AM

Here goes Mac:

regarding NZIS and misleading info. Yeah - ive probably posted it somewhere - but Id have a hard job finding it too! :D However - as a "general" observation - theres some on page 1 of this thread.... Hugs

:) You mean the comment about NZ not being as technologically savvy as it makes out?

I really think somebody should complain to the NZIS and get them to clearly state in their promotional material that "in NZ we don't always use paper towels, and vending machines will sell fizzy drinks only. If you want a juice, please visit one of the excellent fresh juice bars available in most large towns or cities."

Hugs to you too.

Avalon

16th March 2006, 02:51 PM

:confused: :confused: :confused:

I made some general comments - in what I (obviously mistakenly) thought was a rather balanced post asking that people not be so quick to judge others' comments. It was on page 3 as it turns out.

There was no need to be sarcastic. :no

On the other hand - if you mean others' comments at the start of the thread - I think the poor guy has already tried explaining that - not that it did any good at all - most people seem to have totally missed the point and turned a lighthearted comment on life in NZ into a battlezone.

spot

16th March 2006, 03:30 PM

I agree with Ruthroo's description of the "average Kiwi" a few posts ago. I've been in NZ for 15 months and if someone had told me this a year and a half ago it would have saved me a lot of grief and culture shock.

I did a lot of research before moving here and was confident that with the salaries we were going to have that we would be fine. And maybe even better than fine. It turns out we would be fine if we were the above described "average kiwi", but since we were average urban Americans, we were not fine. Really not fine.

After we got over the shock of the real NZ, we adjusted, and started to enjoy what NZ actually has to offer - and it's not bad, and at times it's really good.

When I was looking into life in NZ... I just wanted to find out if there were 500ml in the litre bottle of water. I didn't want to be told that the bottle was half full or half empty - I could decide that for myself when I saw it.

macs gold

16th March 2006, 03:32 PM

...
There was no need to be sarcastic. :no
...

Sorry - obviously that little bit was directed to the OP, not you. I'll let it go!

Avalon

16th March 2006, 05:01 PM

Spot-

Welcome. Ill PM you some info that you may find useful.

clg

16th March 2006, 05:21 PM

I find the whole discussion on average salaries and standard of living quite interesting. In the US there are really wide divisions in wealth. I see the same divisions here but they are just not as wide as I am used to, the highs are not as high and the lows are not as low.

Restaurants in Wellington are very crowded on the weekends and do a good business durring the week as well, I don't see big differences from larger cities in the US. I see quite a few people here doing very well but they tend to be well educated or they own a business, that is what I was used to in the US. Lots of people in the US that don't fall into those categories had a tougher time making it and certainly were not running off to tropical islands for hollidays.

It is also tough for migrants because in many ways you need to start again. I am earning a very good salary by Kiwi standards but I am also in a lower level position than I was in the states. But, I am now fairly confident that after I build up more experience and contacts I will be able to progress to a more senior position in the next couple years and I will earn more then.

My general sense is that if you are well educated with marketable skills you will be OK here, you probably will not earn as much as in the US but those earning should increase. It will be tough in a rural area but the same holds in the US. You will need to take some time to establish yourself careerwise again which is tough.

As of Q4 2005 the average NZ wage is $21.35 (stats NZ). Assuming a 40 hour/52 week job that works out to NZ$44,408 per year. I know for a fact I could not live on that salary, if my wife and I both made that we could get by but things would be tight.

In the US the Median FT weekly salary for the same quarter was $659 or US$34,268 per year (BLS). We would live a very basic lifestyle in LA on that salary times 2 and if we were able to buy a house it would be a very dangerous area or a 2+ hour commute.

Both figures are nationwide averages and in both cases people in larger cities (Wellington, Los Angeles) earn more and smaller cities earn less but I thought that would be a good point of comparison. I think the best thing you can do is figure out realistically what you will earn or need to earn in NZ and then make sure that will give you the type of lifestyle you want. I spent a lot of time budgeting and drew up some fairly realistic budgets and then added 15% in costs figuring I was missing something.

Good luck to everyone with their planning and if things are not working out as you hope look around for new jobs. Salaries for the same positions here can vary by a wide margin.

Chris