[v.redmond]

Help we need some advice! To keep a very long story short my husband was offered a job in Auckland back in November 2004 by an accredited company. We then went through the visa process medicals etc. using a Auckland based agent. NZIS required more info on our 4 year old son's congenital heart condition. We submitted cardiology reports etc. which basically stated that he was in very good health and was unlikely to need any intervention, surgery etc within the next 3 years ( we were applying for a WTR visa lasting only 3 years). We were refused by NZIS who stated that their consultant physician felt he would be a burden to the NZ health service. On advice from our agent we appealed directly to the minister of immigration. The appeal consisted of our son's medical report, covering letter from our employer giving us full support to our case and that the job will be held open. We also stated that we were prepared to set funds aside and take out extra health insurance if required. The decision came back on 23rd February 2006, stating that a medical waiver would not be granted. Our agent has said that we can go no further with this. We feel that our case has been very badly handled. We have been on the residence review board website (which our agent failed to mention existed) and see that far severe cases than our son's have been successful. We feel very let down. How can they make such a decision on a 4 year old boy who has his whole life ahead of him?

All we ever wanted was a better future for our children and this has been taken away from us. Is there anything more we can do?

ps. Our advice would be not to use Nexus Holdings ltd, world info bank and migration downunder. Complete waste of time and money!

Vicky and John

[doctor]

when WTR (eventually PR) is refused--I guess you could still be able to apply for temporary work visa for which your son's health condition should not be a problem. ( from your post it is a kind of indicated that though you applied for WTR/PR, your intention was to stay there for 3 yrs--sorry if I have misinterpreted your post)

[StevieD]

I'd still go for the appeal - if you want it enough you'll do anything, and you have come so far, one more try won't harm will it?

Good luck

Steve

[wanderingoregonian]

so sorry to hear about all the bueracratic problems... I wish you best of luck in a breakthrough. I'm glad to hear that your son's condition sounds stable. Little kids and heart problems can be a scary combination! I work with several kids who are followed closely by cardiologists and I've seen the worry on their parents faces first hand. Best of luck, you and your family are in my thoughts! - sc

[willsken]

I'm sorry I have no advice to offer. I just wanted to say sorry to hear how this has turned out for you. It must be very disappointing.

As Stevie said, can't you appeal again and maybe look at getting more evidence from your doctors to support what they have put in the report?

Good luck and I hope there is someone out there with some advice for you.

[Lesly]

Hi Vicky and John,

I'm so sorry to hear this is happening. I can imagine what you are going through.
I assume you are still in the UK? I'm asking this because when we emigrated to NZ with our severely disabled son, NZIS gave us a chance to visit a NZ pediatrician before they refused to give us PR. Initially our son got an interim student permit for the duration of 6 months. In those 6 months we were asked to visit a NZ pediatrician, so we did. Eventhough we had brought a lot of medical information from Belgium, apparently NZIS had more confidence in a NZ specialist, because after a 20 minute visit to a NZ pediatrician of our own choice and the NZ made report, we got our PR.
Of course this is only possible if you are staying in NZ, sorry I can't give you any more advice, we never had to go that far.

Going through our process, I can remember thinking "if NZ doesn't want my son, why would we want NZ???" I don't think we would have stayed in NZ any longer if they had refused our PR.

All my thoughts are with you
Love, Lesly.

[v.redmond]

Thanks everyone for your advice and support. Regarding our appeal if the NZ minister of immigration has turned us down once, where do we go from here. How do we re-appeal? Thanks Lesly for your comments. Don't know if you remember but we have spoken before. Thanks for all your help and support you gave me back last year. Glad things are working out for you out there.

Vicky

[Lesly]

Hi Vicky,

yes, I remember sending you a long email, maybe I should have made it even longer...
Wishing you all the best
Lesly

[Questor]

While this might not help your case, have you thought of trying to find out who the people they let in with worse conditions were? Then you could use that to argue your case?

[katandbob]

just wanted to say good luck, hope someone can help with where to appeal to...and I agree, these consultants are only after your money....most people should be aware by now that you can do it yourself, trouble is you have no one to go to to say you think that you havent had a fair representation from the company.

Kat

[Jamie Smith]

Hi all

Please don't take the following message as a) against you or b) unnecessarily "pro agent".

I can see that you are trying to do the best for your child, and the Government officials are standing in the way of that, even if they are only doing what they are meant to do which is minimise risk of additional cost to the country.

I would encourage you to think through this as a process, with threads to follow and a course to be navigated, and don't yet look at doors being closed or complaints to be lodged, as you might need the agent's help later and in other places.

Draw encouragement from this forum but don't totally rely on people's comments here for legal advice, or my own suggestions, as yours is a failry unique case that members here would probably have no experience of. (Sorry members!, but this person needs high level professional help)

1. If you had a mediocre case officer and an over safe medical practioner assessing your case then the outcome would, sadly, be like this. Sometimes favourable visa decisions only happen where the case officer or Minister has applied personal discretion.

2. If you had given your migration agent a budget, or let them think that you had a limit, then they would not be encouraging you to go through what can be an expensive process through the RRB.

3. Did the agent say "can go no further" or "should go no further" (becasue of perceived budget limits)?

4. If the agent advised you of the risk of refusal up front then they have acted properly, however if you received glib assurance then the opposite might be true.

5. NZAMI's website would only basically tell you about that agent's contact details and external networks, but it would not tell you about their history of success with very similar cases or personal contacts within NZIS who might be consulted along the way.

6. You may in fact have been given some PRACTICAL advice rather than be seen to be giving you a path that might lead to VERY expensive fees with low chance of success.

7. You should be aware that NZAMI agents' code of conduct deters members from taking on cases without giving clients a clear expectation of outcome and fees. In practice, it also deters agents from taking on or continuing with risky cases even though they might pay well - there is a history of applicants laying complaints with NZAMI where they ended up getting refused but say they were encouraged the agent to proceeed anyway. And that all comes down to whether or not the client was advised of ther risk and whether or not they understood the advice. Those complaints are hard to resolve, "he said, she said" etc.

OK, for your case, why not get a second opinion?

Don't go to any lawyer, go to someone who specialises in the legalities of immigration law, you might like to try David Ryken, his email is david AT rykenlaw.co.nz.

He was the lawyer NZAMI used to brief the silk when the agents recently won an argument with the Government over thousands of cases being declined, it was a very detailed case. David also deals with refugees who are commonly using the appeals process too.

If David says no then you need to discuss with him whether the process was handled properly by the agent, before laying any complaints. If David would have followed the same process and done things in similar way, then you can either get a third opinion or look at the idea that the first agent did the right thing and point number 1. above is what killed things for you.

And brace yourself, sometimes the process will win out over desire. A contributing factor is a previous Minister who dropped the status of the Review Board from Court level, so the outcomes are not binding on Government in future cases. There might be previosu cases approved but they will not always be approved.

The other course is via the immigration Ombudsman www.ombudsmen.govt.nz and bring them in to see if NZIS and the Minister have done things properly with due consideration to other similar cases and been consistent with yours. NZIS do need to be consistent.

The last alternative is to perhaps wait three more years to see if there has been a deterioration in your child's health, and if not, reapply with the argument that NZIS were wrong to think there would be (and use the best lawyers for that application).

It's hard for you to be dispassionate in handling this process when you have such desire to help your children, and I'm trying not to be "pro agent", but you do need to know the risks, choices and possibilities when you are engaging with agents who follow codes of conduct, NZIS panel doctors who don't like to take risks and be seen to have let in an expensive migrant.

Very best wishes to you, and good luck.