[willsken]

As of Q4 2005 the average NZ wage is $21.35 (stats NZ). Assuming a 40 hour/52 week job that works out to NZ$44,408 per year. I know for a fact I could not live on that salary, if my wife and I both made that we could get by but things would be tight.



I'm feeling a little worried now after seeing this on another thread. :wah

I know this has been covered before but I never seem to feel clear what is enough to live comfortably on.

My OH is a carpenter and I am a teacher, so for at least the first couple of years the above is what we expect to earn. Now, we aren't big spenders but I don't want to "just get by". Would it be tight because of having a mortgage or just the general cost of everything?

Anyone out there that earns that kind of money and willing to share their experience?

[StevieD]

Nicola, this will be interesting reading I'm sure. But it is a worry we all have, because we don't want to go out of the frying pan and into the fire so to speak.... do we?

Steve

[ruthyroo]

Hey Nicola

It's never easy as to answer these queries as we all have different ideas about what 'getting by' is, and what kind of lifestyle we can live with...

For the first 18 months of being here Mr Rr and I had a joint income of just over $100K / year before tax, both working full time and no kids. We were paying rent of about $250 / week plus all the other bills. The house was fully furnished so we didn't have to spend any money on furniture etc. We spent a lot of money on food and wine (comfort eating and drinking mostly!), far more than we needed to. We also ate out at least once a week. We had two trips to OZ and one holiday to Raro, plus numerous weekends away around the NI. We spent virtually nothing on books (excellent library in Rotorua), CDs, videos, electronic 'toys', - though we did buy a BBQ and a few other outdoorsy bits and pieces. Although we never felt particularly rich compared to our UK lifestyle, we were probably pretty well off compared to many kiwis. We also saved a fair whack each week.

Since moving south, Mr Rr is doing supply and I have taken a slight cut in salary. We have decided that we want to try and live on my salary alone (good practice for if we have kids!) - about $45K before tax and it is really tight. Rent is about the same at $210 / week, and every other penny is pretty much accounted for. We have slashed our food spending by planning our meals and shpping accordingly - no extras during the week. We don't drink during the week, don't eat / buy anything processed and are eating a lot more veggie food and beans, make our own bread and yoghurt. We do not eat out - ever. I've been rummaging through the Op shop for work clothes! We are growing what veggies / salad / herbs we can. We have furnished the rental with Warehouse cheap n nasty stuff - and the bare minimum of that. We have bought a tent and use it for weekends away rather than staying in motels / B&Bs. We buy 2nd hand whenever we can. We haven't quite gone so far as to drink wine from a box yet - but luckily my lovely dad regularly sends us a box of NZ vino ordered online from Scotland!

In short, I have turned into steph star!

TBH I am really enjoying it. I have found budgeting properly to be liberating rather than a drag. One of the things that makes it easy is that most other people I know here live pretty much like this too - most kiwis I know live to a fairly strict budget and on a modest income - it's only the poms that come here thnking that the 'average kiwi lifestyle' includes a 4-bed bungalow on a 1/4 acre coastal section, complete with 4X4 and boat... which is probably down to some fairly imaginative marketing by the NZ government !!

That's just my experience of living here on 2 different incomes - remember that's just for the two of us, working full time, no kids.

[clg]

Ruth gives a good breakdown on lifestyle salary ranges I think hers is an excellent post!

Let me add a few comments to the one I posted before. When I said we could just get buy in the mid 80's (which I think is what you imply you would be earning) here is what that would mean. With a mortgage of 200k ($400 week) and no other debt and no real need to furnish the house we would live a very comfortable life. That means takeout once a week, eating out sometimes, bottled wine, diesel for centeral heat (which really does not cost much) SKY TV, Broadband, running one car, train pass, and buying more or less what we want at the grocery and costs for 1 child. A few hundred $'s a month on something unexpected/needed would be OK. What would be excluded from that is savings and international travel unless we really saved up for it. If we cut back on our expenses which we could do, we could do a bit better on savings.

I used the term just get by because it excluded savings and international travel and those are requirements for me. Again, it would not be that hard to save a couple hundred a month or more if we really tried. I also think that if you are starting on a salary like that it is quite reasonable to assume your earnings will increase. With a carpenter around there are other options too. A coworker of mine is married to a carpenter and they have been buying houses in bad shape, living in them and fixing them up and then selling and reinvesting. Tradespeople here often do small cash jobs to earn a bit of extra as well.

Ruhtyroo, good on you! Making it in one income is tough. In some ways though having a kid makes it easier because even though they cost they tend to refocus you a bit.

[Diny]

TBH I am really enjoying it. I have found budgeting properly to be liberating rather than a drag.

I know what you mean Ruthy. We don't have an NZ income as hubby works overseas and gets paid overseas. Each month we transfer a set amount into our ANZ account.

We stick to this amount too (apart from when my folks were here and we did lots of extra things, then the overseas account got abit of a bashing).

I know exactly how much I have to spend on 'housekeeping' and our monthly bills are usually about the same each time. We've cut our phone bill down to a bare minimum by signing up with both Voipbuster and Skype - internet calls range from totally free to a fraction of a Euro Cent depending on where you're calling. We scan the supermarkets for the best deals on our Pinot Gris, we eat out sometimes but on the flip side of the coin one of my hobbies is cooking (and dare I make so bold as to say I'm good at it too) - so exciting and 'different' meals don't have to cost top whack with the price of a baby sitter to boot.

I too don't buy processed food (but never did in the UK), my bread maker stayed in the UK so until Briscoes have one on 'special offer' I'll continue buying my bread !! NZ offers an abundance of 'things' for free. We spend alot of our weekends at the beach, exploring the back waters and climbing up hill and down dale. Jo B and I have the occasional lunch out and a mooch around the shops but it's mainly (if not always) window shopping.

We've got a large house which we now realise is abit too much for us (at this stage while hubby works away 2/3 of the time). We're selling this place, buying somewhere smaller and buying another rental property (we already have 1) with the remainder of the money.

Like Ruthy, we set ourselves a monthly amount (in her case her wages alone - in our case a 'portion' of hubby's pay) - and the fact that we have to budget is spookily liberating. We've cut our expenditure down to the bone, we pay cash for everything, apart from a mortgage we don't owe a living soul a single penny (and that feeling is worth thousands !!).

I know that we are in the lucky position to have the bulk of Marks pay still sitting in our offshore account each month but having the discipline to bring in a set amount and then to budget to that amount is a good feeling. It's amazing how easy we have adapted to a more frugal way of living. And the knowledge that we're actually saving heaps each month too is pretty priceless.

I think what I'm trying to say is that if anybody coming over here finds themselves living to a strict budget it needn't be all doom and gloom, it can be done, and like Ruthy says, it can be strangely liberating.

Diny

[Lukas]

hm...I would rather say...75% of new zealanders earn something between 12-16 NZ$ per hour...in some areas like Hastings the average anual income been around 20K
40K is considered by NZ standards "very good income".
Also many people are working behind their level of education...there may be a good University system but quite few opportunities after graduation. Also bear in mind that most NZ companies are small...with less than 50 employes

[Lukas]

...in my view one person can manage well with 1000 NZ$ per week..decent house, decent car, decent holiday..decent life ...but kep in mind 75% of the population earn much less than that

[Singel]

Our combined income with no kid is $100k and our mortgage is 30 per cent of our combined take-home pay. We could afford a new build, a brand-new car and many holidays every year.
However, when I buy groceries or go shopping, I count every penny. I also check the utility or phone bills to make sure that we do not spend too much, if not, I will endeavour to cut it down. My hubby said that I am nuts. Back in my mind, I always think that if one fine day that we have to live on one person income, we are able to cope.
Therefore, I like the kiwis attitude and lifestyle very much ............... "practical" + "down-to-earth" = live within their means. Personally, I think thrifty is a virtue.

I always remember if you want a comfortable lifestyle, make sure that your mortgage/rental is less than 40% of your take-home pay.

[StevieD]

All good sound advice. Having to live like a kiwi in the uk at the moment, through dire financial decisions made in the past and job losses, it doesn't look nice to think that people are "struggling" in NZ. However, as people have said, many people have different perceptions on many things, and we are living frugally now. We have to budget for everything, and hopefully it will stand us in good stead for when we arrive, debt free, with a little bit of cash behind us to start our new life. No, we will not be mortgage free, but we will have a clean slate and that, as Diny says, will be worth it's weight in gold.

Oh, and the GBP/NZD has just hit $2.76! :)

[clg]

I tried to find a breakdown of weekly income distribution for full time workers but could not. I may be able to find something on Monday I can post. Here is a breakdown of all people that are employed. Keep in mind that this is for all employed people and is thus misleading because it includes part time workers. Fulltime workers earn more per hour on average. If you only look at full time workers the %'s would be skewed quite a bit more to the higher side. Same sort of thing occurs when you look at people with varying degrees of qualifications. The figures are also about a year old and probably safe to say the $ ammounts have increased by 5-7%

Under $160 $160 to $329 $330 to $579 $580 to $869 $870 & over
7% 8% 24% 30% 29%

You will find substantial regional differences here (Auckland and Wellington earn more than Gore) and also big differnces in varying levels of qualifications.

[Singel]

The figures are also about a year old and probably safe to say the $ ammounts have increased by 5-7%

Under $160 $160 to $329 $330 to $579 $580 to $869 $870 & over
7% 8% 24% 30% 29%

You will find substantial regional differences here (Auckland and Wellington earn more than Gore) and also big differnces in varying levels of qualifications.
Are these "take-home" pays (after tax) ?

[MB]

This is a good thread.

I do think that some people who pose the question "Will I be financially OK in NZ?" are asking not so much "Can my family basically keep body and soul together in terms of food, roof, and a bit of R&R?" as they are asking "Can we easily unplug our current lifestyle and replug it into NZ once when we arrive, with very few changes?"

Either subtext is perfectly reasonable -- they're very fair questions -- but if folks are asking the latter I think that the answer to them needs to be qualified by a couple of caveats.

Firstly, if the questioner is from the US or UK (maybe elsewhere, I just don't know other countries), I don't think they'll find in NZ the affordability or range of groceries and goods that they do in those two countries. What costs pence or cents in the UK or US will likely just cost more here. As we've said before, if you come to NZ expecting to look a bit harder for things or pay a bit more you might well be better off psychologically than someone who assumes they can unplug their lifestyle and consumption and plug it back in without a blink once they hit NZ soil.

But here's the second caveat: the point I've just made about cost and range will be mitigated quite a bit if you are able to bring over money and benefit from the UK/US exchange rates. If you can bring over a big five- or six-figure chunk, you'll have a buffer in terms of the extra you'll need to spend to hop back up to your old lifestyle and/or as a 'consolation' nest egg even if you have to tone down your consumption or expenditure.

So, both things said, maybe the folks who need to tread pretty carefully are those who do expect a certain UK/US lifestyle (free and easy broadband; liberal vacations; two or more cars; electronics, etc.) but who will not be backed by a big chunk of money when they move (or who do have such a chunk but invest it in something a bit risky or untouchable).

Finally, I'll put the spotlight firmly on folks who like to spend, drive, do PC gaming, drink nice wine, holiday and keep their houses toasty:

I know plenty of folks who are really are at their happiest doing that. They thrive on going to new-release movies every week, enjoying 'em and then quickly on to the next movie, or car, or kitchen suite, or whatever. They pay to do it, they're content, great. It gives 'em a great deal of pleasure, and they count out the cash for it and everyone's happy.
Just bear in mind that, if you are pretty much like that, NZ might not be the best place to go if you want to maintain that lifestyle easily. US, yes. UK, yes. Other places, too, probably (Oz, maybe?)
That's all. You can sure find your fun in NZ, but there's not quite that high-octane feeling of new stuff, cheap stuff, new releases, etc.

But if you want a change... that's another story! :)

As usual, knowing oneself and one's family -- honestly and unblinkingly -- is probably key.

[Avalon]

For anyone facing the prospect of low salaries and having to budget when they arent used to it:

Anita Bell's books are a godsend. 2 I recommend are "Your Mortgae and how to pay it off in 5 years" and "Your money - Starting out and starting over".

Both are easy to understand (a bonus) but not patronising - and offer a really good way of sorting out your finances. No Gobbledygook, but some very interesting lessons on how money works - and how to make it work for you (and not the bank).

Financially - these books saved our bacon. In the last year in the UK - I paid off £10k worth of debt AND had some savings left over (on a £36k salary). We have continued to use those principles here and they have really helped.

Also - if you havent seen the "bargain post" frpom yesterday - any wannabe budgeters or money savings could do a lot worse than trawl throuh the Martin Lewis site: Moneysavingexpert.com especially if you have current debts you want to get rid of - the snowball calculator is brilliant.

In nz: a look at http://www.sorted.org.nz/ may be useful - it has all sorts of finance info and calculators that you can use to help.

[clg]

Are these "take-home" pays (after tax) ?

No, those are before tax figures.

Sorry if I am bugging anyone with all of the posts on $ but I like #'s and playing around with them. I did a lot of spreadsheeting before we came over here!

I guess some of the posts about how all/most NZ's are broke just bug me a bit because I just don't belive it (if that is not obvious yet!).

We have been invovled in more economising than we were in the states but then we were reasonably good about things there too. We have never bought a lot of prepared foods we cook from scratch so that was not new for us. We buy things on sale here when possible and tend to stock up since sales on the item you want can be far between. Toothpaste is one of those things finally saw the kind we like on sale so we bought heaps. Also we really don't like debt and always avoid borrowing except for things like education and a mortgage. That is not new for us though either.

[MB]

if the questioner is from

Just want to make it clear that in my long post I was talking throughout about a hypothetical questioner and not anyone in particular such as the person who started this thread.

It was all just general comment. :nice1

[Diny]

Although I can't give you any actual figures maybe this 'scenario' will help some.

My sister in law - here in NZ - is a single parent. Her 3 kids are 15 and twins age (nearly) 13.

She and her ex share (for the want of a better word) the kids so neither pays anything to the other.

She lives in a modest yet comfortable 3 bedroom house in a 'sought after' (so the real estate twits will tell you) area. She owns, maintains and runs her own car, albeit a very old 'bluebird'. There is always food on the table, the kids don't go without and she affords the occasional luxury, night out and bottle of nice wine. She doesn't have any debt. She works full time in the local cafe/bar. Although I have no idea how much she earns I'd like to bet it isn't a huge amount.

She prides herself in the fact that she doesn't claim any benefits - good on her I say.

I hope that this shows (even without actual facts and figures) that a low income doesn't necessarily mean low standards.

Diny

[Lukas]

...she earns no more than 11NZ$ per hour...unless is the cafee bar manager

[Diny]

I think she does - I remember her telling me that she earns more than another friend we know - and that person earns $13.00 an hour.

She's not the manager but she's not 'just' a waitress/kitchen hand either.

Diny

[Lukas]

...ok...13 NZ$ per hour ...unless she is having her own house...this is enough just to live from a month to another...if kids are added to the ecuation things become much more complicated

[willsken]

Just want to make it clear that in my long post I was talking throughout about a hypothetical questioner and not anyone in particular such as the person who started this thread.

It was all just general comment.


I didn't take it that you meant me! :nice1

This has been a great response and I would like to thank you all. The financial side of thing has always been my only real doubt. Reading about the high cost of living has raised these.

Now I know we will be fine. We won't have a mortgage and we don't go on holiday very often. We do intend to buy a campervan to travel around in and this will occupy lots of our spare time. (and be a place to install my Dad when he visits! :laugh )

In the UK we earn enough to fund our life style and have money left each month. (Not thousands....but some savings.) We don't go out to the pub very often and only eat out occasionally. We do have Sky and will continue to do so. We run 2 cars and will need to continue do this, but they don't need to be anything special. We live a fairly simple life and I try to always find the bargains.

We are all very into family sport and spend most weekend watching the boys play football and rugby etc. (OH plays football, me well, I watch! :D )

The only bad spending I do is on my wine.....and I will continue to do that! :roll

[Diny]

...ok...13 NZ$ per hour ...unless she is having her own house...this is enough just to live from a month to another...if kids are added to the ecuation things become much more complicated

Lukas, like I've said, she earns MORE than $13 an hour, how much more I don't know. She does have her own house with a very small mortgage, and she does have 3 kids (please refer to my above post).

I simply stated her 'scenario' to show others that life on a relatively low income can be done. She keeps her head above water and has no debt. She doesn't have spare cash to throw around but neither do lots of people. As for her kids making things 'much more complicated' - in her particular case I don't see any evidence of this.

Also bear in mind that she lives in a rural area, off the tourist track, alot cheaper living than a big city.

Diny

[kiwidebs]

I guess this is another of those hard ones to answer because what would be acceptable for one family is poverty/luxury for another. And, my personal feeling is that you won't know if it works for you unless you actually live it. The old 'suck it and see' thing. We're definately not going to have the disposable income we had in the UK and I'm still not sure how we're going to get by - and we'll be on a joint income that is over the national average (and I'm not confident in my budgeting skills - I guess I'd better learn quickly)! Watch this space!

Debs

[Avalon]

. We do intend to buy a campervan to travel around in and this will occupy lots of our spare time. (and be a place to install my Dad when he visits! :laugh )


Can I just ask - have you looked at the price / range / quality of motor homes here in NZ?

Mum and dad were going to do this - but found prices quite hideous for what you get. Obviously a lot of that will depend on budget (before anyone jumps on me from a great height).

Also - they are somewhat put off by the huge difference in an NZ camper adn European one. Again - may not be an issue for you - but it may be worth looking now and having some idea of what to expect - if you havent already.

There is a v v good company in Taupo (Barrons) - they are also well known in the UK - and they sell European style ( and a rather swanky USA style one whose cab looks like the Enterprise).

Sorry if thats utterly redundant info :o

[Avalon]

I guess this is another of those hard ones to answer because what would be acceptable for one family is poverty/luxury for another. And, my personal feeling is that you won't know if it works for you unless you actually live it. The old 'suck it and see' thing. We're definately not going to have the disposable income we had in the UK and I'm still not sure how we're going to get by - and we'll be on a joint income that is over the national average (and I'm not confident in my budgeting skills - I guess I'd better learn quickly)! Watch this space!

Debs
You are so right. Finances are such a personal issue - and often hidden away from public view so much. Its so hard to make comparisons because there are just so many variables.

Regarding budgeting. I found the first week was the worst - when you start to look at exactly how much money you spend - and what on. Its incredibly daunting at first - but please believe me - once you start - you may even find it utterly libertating. Its one thing to buy yourself a jumper and then panic because you dont really know where the money is coming from to pay the credit card bill - but imagine what its like going out to buy a jumper because you KNOW you have the money set aside for it. You may not buy as many jumpers - but the ones you do buy - you are not going to be in a cold sweat over!

Also (tree hugging hippy crap warning) there is a theory that when you start to respect money and look after it - it kinda decides its likes your company - and you get more of it. I now its sounds a bit odd - but it really seems to work.

[Moorf]

Can concur with Avalon's comments re campervans. We've had an eye out for one for ages and have viewed quite a few. You're looking at around $30k for a decent one - I'm talking one with a toilet / shower. If you're happy with something like a Hiace (about same size as a Kombi) then you're looking at around $15 - $20k for a good one. By good I mean no manky fabrics/coverings, no painted chipboard cupboards, no threadbare carpets and piles of dirt and dust in corners. Some I've seen have made me want to puke....

Keep an eye on TradeMe Motors - we've seen a couple of good ones at more reasonable prices via this route.

[Diny]

Also (tree hugging hippy crap warning) there is a theory that when you start to respect money and look after it - it kinda decides its likes your company - and you get more of it. I now its sounds a bit odd - but it really seems to work.

This is actually kinda true. We are on the same money here as in the UK but our respect for it has changed. We don't buy anything on credit - not one single thing, we budget, we've thrown away the habit of just spending without a 2nd thought ....... and I have to tell you that our money seems to be 'loving us back'. We're just about to buy another rental property taking our total of houses up to 3 - we could never have done that in the UK.

Diny

[foolsgold99]

This is a subject that I both love and lothe.

Savings rates in NZ are amongst the lowest in the world, Long time ago I learned to treat saving like a bill, that needs to be paid. If you try and save what you have "left over" at the end of the month, then you'll never save anything. We set a minimum of 10% of income as a savings bill.

Record keeping is very important, we use MS Money to track our income outgoings, without this we'd never be able to budget

We live on a single salary, 1 kid, we get nothing from the goverment in terms of benefits etc.. We live in a decent enough area, we run 2 oldish cars, we get by ok.

We have zero debt, apart from our mortgage, for the simple reason I refuse to even consider taking any on. We could easily have did this in the UK, but never did, dunno why we alwasy seemed to have a couple of grand on the over draft, plus some credit card debts from time to time. Mind set change, more than anything else I guess.

Are we well off ?? I really don't know. Poverty and wealth are all relative. What people consider "poor" today would have been a decent life style 50 years ago.

I think where you live has a major impact, most peoples largest outgoing is housing costs. We spend around $1500 a month on a $200,00 mortgage, this is a about a third of my salary.

I guess it's like anywhere else, if you want to make money, and have all the "toys" then you can providing you have marketable skills and are prepared to work hard, if you don't then I guess it'd be difficult.

Personal opinon, but unless you are mortgage free, or close to it, I wouldn't want to get by in AKL with an income of below 70 - 80K

[MB]

Foolsgold99 - I agree so strongly with your concept of a "savings bill". It's a near-identical notion to the "pay yourself first" principle.

When I had my last job, I actively and early sought out a way of saving that was a little less readily available than either a current or savings account. What worked for us was US savings bonds... they earn interest, can be made liquid at short notice if needed, but they simply weren't available in weak moments via an ATM or without a tiny bit of pre-planning (i.e., fishing them out of the filing cabinet, taking them to a bank, and losing a little bit of interest).

So we had a certain amount of $$$ in bonds direct-debited from my pay every two weeks.

Many countries have equivalents, and I suggest this sort of arrangement to folks as one form of Foolsgold's notion. :nice1

[Carol]

This is really too hard to answer.


I think - if I am honest - it has taken us the ten years we have been here to get on our feet.
mainly because we had VERY little as a down payment on a house when we came and our wages were dire when we first arrived.
Add into that 3 kids and you get the picture.



Mortgages - food bills - number of cars etc - schools etc etc etc all add up.
I have two boys who can eat a box of cereal in one sitting.
THeir current costs for (a PUBLIC! not private) school - currently running at $1500 and we havent even got to the end of the first term.

We came for lifestyle - golf for the kids - dance/gymnastics for my daughter - trampolining lesson once a week for my son - football for my other son - I don't even add it up anymore - this is what we came for so what's the point in griping about it.

All I know is we struggle most weeks to make ends meet.
I spend NOTHING like I did in the UK on clothes, the house etc
I buy from the Warehouse (clothes0 and still wear stuff from England I bought when we were there on holiday 7 years ago.


Dont really like to say it but - if you think you are coming here to make a lot of money forget it.
Unless you are mortgage free and earning a LOT of money.
:confused:
There is no way we could survive on my teaching salary alone.

[Avalon]

Foolsgold99 - I agree so strongly with your concept of a "savings bill". It's a near-identical notion to the "pay yourself first" principle.


Ditto. The Anita Bell books got me on the road - but it was actually at a seminar in NZ that I first came across this idea. "Save First - Spend Second", so when re-jigging our budget - we actually assigned set amounts for savings after rent - and then knew what we had left to spend.

Also - aggree with foolsgold about record keeping. I use Quicken myself, and im even making it work with a revolving credit account (thogh its a bit tricky). Using an accounts package more than anything else will soon tell you where you going wrong (and means you check what the banks says - i never trust 'em to be right)

[StevieD]

Started on that path years ago using MS Money, was working and it did provide checks and balances on bank statements etc. Unfortunately, bad attitude to money and debt was my downfall. I will do my best to leave it all behind.
And once I escape the "greed, new shiny things with badges all over" UK, I will be well rid.
Only last weekend, a gang of "scrotes" for want of a better term, were causing a fight with my lad and his friends. They were a lot older, and the language was choice, not just to them but to me as well. The basis of their antagonism was along the lines of "they aren't ever REAL Timberland boots ha ha (they were!)" "that's a pretend bling bling diamond earring" - FOR GODS SAKE I WANT AWAY FROM THIS TRIPE!!! The TV, magazines, newspapers, posters everywhere - they all foment this attitude of it's gotta have a fancy name on it to be any good. Utter rubbish. No wonder the country is living on debt. Celebrity this and that, posh is wearing a blah de blah outfit. Makes me sick. I'm off to get away from all of it. And I won't be breaking my neck to buy Adidas this, Reebok that. Don't get me wrong, I do wear those products here, but when I find them in the bargain bin at my local shoe shop. (£10 for a pair of Adidas Samba - cool retro shoes at a price I like.)
I think I will enjoy NZ by the sounds of it.

[foolsgold99]

I got a lot better at this stuff after reading a book by the guys that did the Motley Fool web sites (http://www.fool.co.uk or .com for hte US version).

I really think this kind of thing should be covered properly in schools more

A tenner for a pair of Sambas Stevie ? total bargin. I refuse to wear any other trainers but classic black sambas, my one indulgance, cost not really an issue, I msut have them, but they last for ages and I wear them nearly ever day. When a pair runs out, I replace them with an identical pair.

[Carol]

never heard of them!

Maybe I've been shopping in The Warehouse in NZ too long
:laugh

[Lukas]

...As far as I know Teachers are well paid in NZ...or at least well over the average

[willsken]

Can concur with Avalon's comments re campervans. We've had an eye out for one for ages and have viewed quite a few. You're looking at around $30k for a decent one - I'm talking one with a toilet / shower. If you're happy with something like a Hiace (about same size as a Kombi) then you're looking at around $15 - $20k for a good one. By good I mean no manky fabrics/coverings, no painted chipboard cupboards, no threadbare carpets and piles of dirt and dust in corners. Some I've seen have made me want to puke....

Keep an eye on TradeMe Motors - we've seen a couple of good ones at more reasonable prices via this route.


Thanks Carol and Moorf for the comments. Yes, sadly I have seen the prices. I have been looking on the net for a while. We went to see some examples when we were over there and they were a sorry state!

However, we really want to get one as this is part of what we see our life in NZ being about. We want to spend most summer weekend travelling and we see this as a cost effective way of doing it. (Rather than hotel bills etc.)

We have allowed a budget of £20,000 (Max) so I am hoping to get a comfortable home from home us and the boys. Also, as I said Mum and Dad both intend using it to travell as they want to come over for a few months every other year. I suppose the exchange rate will play a part too. The higher it goes the better the van we will be able to get. So I have everything crossed in that direction! :D

[Diny]

never heard of them!

Maybe I've been shopping in The Warehouse in NZ too long
:laugh

Me neither, they sound like some kind of snake. I'm up there in the warehouse with you mate !!

Diny

[willsken]

...As far as I know Teachers are well paid in NZ...or at least well over the average


Yes, I suppose they are compared to the average wage. It's not just about that though. I have gone some way up the slippery pole and am a head of faculty. So I will be leaving behind a good job and good salary and will have no chance of earning anything like it NZ.

Please don't take this as me moaning. :roll This whole move was my idea and I am lucky to have an adventurous OH! I dearly want to go and to some extent it's "to hell with the money!" The question I asked when I started this thread was a genuine one "will I get by?" That’s all I want.... a simple and safe life for my boys. I don't need all the flash things in life, I don't mind living to a budget, I've done that for many years in the past, I just want to live without a big struggle. :nice1

[Diny]

The question I asked when I started this thread was a genuine one "will I get by?" That’s all I want.... a simple and safe life for my boys. I don't need all the flash things in life, I don't mind living to a budget, I've done that for many years in the past, I just want to live without a big struggle. :nice1

If this is what you want out of your new life in NZ then I think the simple answer is yes, you will get by. You have a wonderful attitude and realistic expectations - I wish you all the luck in the world.

Diny

[MB]

That’s all I want.... a simple and safe life for my boys. I don't need all the flash things in life, I don't mind living to a budget, I've done that for many years in the past, I just want to live without a big struggle. :nice1

Nicola, it sounds to me as though you guys will be fine. Unless there's a big discrepancy between what you mean by living "without a big struggle" and what I think you mean by that, I think you are going into NZ with a very healthy level of expectation.

I'm not quite sure what your plans are -- I'll read some of your other posts now and I'm sorry if the following suggestion is way off-base -- but you might want to consider being in or near a small town or an area similarly affordable re. housing. I think many folks, not least those in professions such as yours, find it greatly satisfying and practical to settle into a community such as a town of 5000-15000 inhabitants. And communities in this category don't need to be prohibitively far from a big centre... maybe 45 mins-to-2 hours away, yes, but not exactly a day's travel!
Just a thought! :nice1

[chips]

As residents you will be eligable to inwork payment and family assistance. They have raised to the limit to something like $80,000.
I have just recieved my expected allowance for next year, ( runs bi-weekly), and believe me it's a very generous amount for 2 adults and 3 kids ( OH teacher, me teacher aid). So from what you have written , i beleive you will be just fine.
all the best. Chips

[Lukas]

...I find difficult to understand why the people are complaining so much about their life in UK

[willsken]

Nicola, it sounds to me as though you guys will be fine. Unless there's a big discrepancy between what you mean by living "without a big struggle" and what I think you mean by that, I think you are going into NZ with a very healthy level of expectation.

I'm not quite sure what your plans are -- I'll read some of your other posts now and I'm sorry if the following suggestion is way off-base -- but you might want to consider being in or near a small town or an area similarly affordable re. housing. I think many folks, not least those in professions such as yours, find it greatly satisfying and practical to settle into a community such as a town of 5000-15000 inhabitants. And communities in this category don't need to be prohibitively far from a big centre... maybe 45 mins-to-2 hours away, yes, but not exactly a day's travel!
Just a thought! :nice1

Hi Matt

You have hit the nail on the head! We are going to a small farming town near (60 km) Hastings. Work should be no problem for Ian and I will supply at the local college until something permanent comes up. We have a nice sum to buy a decent house there. As you say the property prices are a lot lower. This is the life for me and mine. We loved the town and it has loads of sport for the boys and golf courses for OH. We are buying some land at the moment so it will be a couple of horses and away we go.

I really can’t wait and the rest of the family feel the same to. I just know we will be happy. If not there is a lot of other places to try in NZ before we would ever come back to the UK.



If this is what you want out of your new life in NZ then I think the simple answer is yes, you will get by. You have a wonderful attitude and realistic expectations - I wish you all the luck in the world.

Thank you Diny. :D This really is all we want. We are a very insular family and don't have any great need of being in a bustling place.

[MB]

Nicola - great. The more I hear from you about your plans the more certain I am that you will fit into NZ so well.
What I strongly suspect might happen is that you will settle very quickly.

For what it's worth, here's a thumbnail sketch of our first months:
We have been here since last July. My wife is a ballet/dance educator and she was the one who NZIS wanted :laugh. After a few changes of rental accommodation in Auckland we are buying in small-town Waikato. My wife has, to her delight, landed long-sought university dance work that should start to increase quite soon.
I suppose that, hand in hand with one or two other work-and-family challenges right now -- such as finding the best formula for a v.long work commute -- our first eight months have been not so much an example of a "quick settle" as they have been challenging, interesting and very enjoyable.
Our outlook is buoyant. We chose to come here with only what we could carry, knowing no-one in NZ really well, and like many migrants we are thus starting pretty much from scratch. So the chops and changes of these months seem, if not inevitable, then at least perfectly reasonable.
And in our current situation we are spending lots of time with our little boy, which is wonderful.... and he seems very happy.
We love NZ.

Anyway, back to your family. Yes, I reckon you should settle terrifically. Our own experience so far leads us to try to keep in mind all the time that being psychologically nimble and flexible -- for example, being unabashed about making decisive, often bold, moves if good sense and/or instinct recommends them -- is a good attitude as we adapt. Whether your family slots right in here in the way you guys imagine, or whether you have some challenges and changes in the process, it sounds as though you are full of a very healthy attitude. :)

[willsken]

...I find difficult to understand why the people are complaining so much about their life in UK

There are many threads that deal with this question. There are no specific answers as many people leave the UK without feeling anything but a great love for it and are going for other reasons and others dislike the UK for their own personal reasons.

I think many of us who are complaining about life in the UK don't like what is has become in the last decade (?) and what continues to happen in the towns and cities. The whole of society has changed and what is expectable standards of behaviour, dress, language etc etc (I'm sure others have many to add to this list.) This doesn't fit with what some people want for their own lives and that of their children.

I also think some people are fed up with the crowded jammed up roads that lead to very long and stressful commute to work every day, the crowds everywhere you go, even to do something as simple as a weeks shop is stressful!

As I said earlier there really are many views on this subject and you would find better answers than this by referring to those threads.

I know there are worse places on earth to live but thats not the point really. There are also (IMHO) better places and thats what I want for my family.

:nice1

[StevieD]

Hear Hear Nicola!

And for Lukas, it's not all stiff upper lips, rolled up umbrellas and huge flats in London :) There is a lot of good about the UK, but there is also a lot of bad too - just like anywhere.
Overcrowding, pollution, jammed road network, high taxation, no matter what the headline rate says, there is a lot of hidden taxation, huge debt, yobs, drugs, binge drinking (at least abuse of drink) I could go on but I won't.
Needless to say I want something better than this for my children that I feel NZ has to offer.

Steve

[bpk]

There is no way we could survive on my teaching salary alone.

May I ask you how much your salary is ??

[Carol]

May I ask you how much your salary is ??
I'm at the maximum point on the scale.........with 16 years experience- just under $60k


No more pay rises - that's it now.
Unless i get a dp position.

to be honest for the extra money you get (about $3k I think) it just isnt worth the extra work and responsibility.

[Hannah]

FOR GODS SAKE I WANT AWAY FROM THIS TRIPE!!! The TV, magazines, newspapers, posters everywhere - they all foment this attitude of it's gotta have a fancy name on it to be any good. Utter rubbish. No wonder the country is living on debt. Celebrity this and that, posh is wearing a blah de blah outfit. Makes me sick. I'm off to get away from all of it. And I won't be breaking my neck to buy Adidas this, Reebok that.

Absolutely! Has the world lost it's way or what!!! Half the world starving, kids working in slave labour trade for 12 hours a day etc. and Joe Public is more concerned about who got booted out of Big Brother house this week.

NZ has it's fair share of peer pressure among youths to dress a certain way, have the right phone, blah blah but it seems less intense than the UK and fortunately they seem to be growing out of it by the time they reach adulthood (unlike UK!). The 'grown ups' are generally down to earth and not worried about what their car, house, shoes etc. look like and don't seem to judge people on that crap so it's a good place to be if you choose/have to live frugally!!

[Diny]

I hope they do grow out of it. A couple of weeks ago I bought our eldest a pair of baseball boots. They're not 'Converse' - just an un-known label, got them from the No.1 Shoe Warehouse (well known cheapo shoe shop over here in NZ). They cost me $14.90 and he was well chuffed.

But this week he won't wear them - not because they're rubbing, laces are broken or they have a hole in them - no - it's because some of the other kids are ribbing him because they're not the multi $ designer type.

Seems like there's nowhere to hide away from this commercialism crap.

Diny

[Carol]

I've honestly never seen that happen where we are Diny....

In fact I was talking to my class about it the other day (during a discussion about school uniform pros and cons) and more than half of them said they couldn't care less what sort of shoes etc they wear.


It's amazing isn't it?
Even in the short distance (relatively) that we are apart we get such polarised views of schooling......guess it's par for the course.

The thing I love about our school is the way the kids arrive looking like the Beverly Hillbillies.
There was a chicken strutting about in the playground today - no-one batted an eyelid!

And a Pukeko seems to be nesting in the bush outside my classroom!!!
:laugh

[Diny]

The thing I love about our school is the way the kids arrive looking like the Beverly Hillbillies.


I love that about our school too, that's why I was suprised when Fergie got 'ribbed' for not wearing 'the real thing'.

This isn't really anything to do with the actual school, just a bunch of kids 'having a go'.

Diny

[jonSE]

Fascinating thread this - all serves to demonstrate how different peoples priorities are.

Returning to what I vaguely recall as the original question what does it cost to live here?
Take this from the perspective of a 40ish couple no kids.

We spent around $4500NZ pcm. earn't more than that but it's not relevant. Now take out the things we didn't have to spend money on , I can get that down to about $3000 pcm including rent $330pw , and two ferry tickets per month $$360 each. That still includes alcohol and tobacco, say $150pw. Now living on Waiheke is cheaper than AKL in rent terms but food is more expensive so that probably balances out. We don't have to live in a 4 bedroom house with two garages but a nicer place the same size would have cost maybe $450 PW. We could have probably got away with about $250 pw for a good 2 bedroom place on Waiheke but like everywhere in the world there is no such thing as good value bottom of the market rental property. (Landlords make the most money from student properties and the least from "expensive property")

Going on we didn't need to economise so we didn't, but lots of people have said they don't buy pre prepared food in NZ. It's expensive here (by comparison to raw food) The choice is pitiful compared to the UK, and it tastes crap. We didn't buy pre-prepared food either. (we did in the UK) Digressing they havent got the thing about not putting salt and preservatives in food here. Bread lasts a week and milk doesn't seem to go off ever - NZ green? I don't think so.

[Diny]

milk doesn't seem to go off ever - NZ green? I don't think so.

Ain't that a fact - it's quite worrying how milk manages to stay 'fresh' for so long.

Diny

[StevieD]

Irradiated and full of preservatives? :mad:

[smitjo]

Mmmmmmmmmmmm sounds lovely - can't wait to have my first cup of tea on NZ soil! :D

[Nienke]

Do we get preserved as long as well then? :D

[thegatehouse]

Hi Nicola

I have just got a job paying $40k per year! Fortunately I am in a position where I will probably be mortgage free, although I may take a small mortgage to help buy the toys, ie boat etc!

I reckon with my wife working part time we should have an income of about 55 - 60k and i think we will have a pretty good lifestyle ( we are in Auckland). i have found so far, that many things are cheaper, more expensive and roughly the same but in general I think I will have more disposable income. The main thing is mortgage rates, they are very high at about 7.5 - +9 %. But savings rates are very good and you can get 10% on some deals. It would be worth keeping a property in the Uk (if thats where you are) and utilising your full mortgage potential to release sterling funds to bring over here. Check out the financial dealer called HIFX for what looks like a good dea. They are offering around 2.83 to the pound at the moment.

good luck

[willsken]

Hi Nicola

although I may take a small mortgage to help buy the toys, ie boat etc!



good luck


Like the sound of that! :nice1

[Stu]

The milk lasts so long because it is so fresh and well looked after from the cow to you. Then when you pop it in a fridge that is cold, there is no real reason for it to go off.... try leaving it on the kitchen bench overnight in the summer... it'll go off all right!
Leave it there for a weekend while you're away, and you'll be lucky to get inside the door before the smell hits you.
All the salt and preservatives in our food really has had no effectectectectecterrkkkkkk on me at all, honest!

Speaking as someone single with a $70k+/- income, no mortgage, rural town, no kids etc, I find life to really be pretty easy. Still resent like hell the taxes I pay (mumble mutter mumble) but I manage to spend a huge amount of my time at the beach house, and plan on spending around about 2 of this winters months in the Islands to get out of the cold, so really, for me, I do not think NZ is such a bad place at all.
However, if I had the mortgage, the kids, etc etc etc, then hell no, I think I would never manage the lifestyle I have right now, unless I could pop another zero somewhere into my income! :-)
Cheers, Stu.
Oh, and yes, I get all my shoes from the Warehouse, most clothes to, and do not have designer label anythings, nor ever have wanted them. Just a Hick from the sticks, me!

[Gran]

Nothing is irradiated in NZ, we all kicked up a fuss when they wanted to bring in a m/c so the only m/cs are in the hospitals (unless someone has sneaked one in)