[Smiler]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10373670

[Rabbit]

Initially, when I read about some of this a while back I was concerned.

But there is still a net inflow.

I read somewhere that for the UK last year, 200,000 people left the UK and 250,000 arrived (mainly from the eastern european block) - a net inflow of 50,000.

If you compare the UK figures with the NZ figures the inflows and outflows are probably comparable, relative to population size. (I worked this out ballpark in my head rather than plotting the figures - so rough calculations).

At the same time, salary and benefit differentials given geography and market accessability are a major issue. NZ will have to compete with AUS both on taxes and incomes, sooner or later.

[katandbob]

I
I read somewhere that for the UK last year, 200,000 people left the UK and 250,000 arrived (mainly from the eastern european block) - a net inflow of 50,000.


no work around here at the present! and go to an agency and your competing with the above for the factory/seasonal work.

HOPE to god that we dont end up working in a gas station! I am soo enjoying this being my last 2 weeks...and I have my anniversary and thursday off :raebanana

you guys all got jobs didnt you??

Kat

[foolsgold99]

In my experiance the people pumping gas or working at Wendys with PHD's all appear to be indian / middle eastern. You see very few south africans / europeans / north americans in this situation.

I have never seen a white perosn work in a burger king / wendys in Auckland. They appear to be 100% staffed by indians. Reminded me of California, I went to a computer hardware store and looked down the line of 20+ checkouts, everyone was staffed by a mexican / black. All the customers buying expensive computers were white, it's always stuck in my mind since that day.

I'm not sure if it's related to a lack of English language skills / inherrent racism in kiwis / lack of respect for qualifications issued by third world universities etc etc..

Coming from the UK I found no problems having my work exp or quals accepted and whenever I've wanted work, I've quickly had multiple offers, I'm convinced if I was browner, with a different accent it would have been more difficult.

Not saying it's right, but it's my reading of the situation on teh ground.

[veronica]

Going Back To The Kiwis To Oz Theme, Its Not Surprising They Earn A Heck Of A Lot More Over There. Its Not Just About Zero Unemployment Here, Its About Crap Pay.

[foolsgold99]

market forces kick in at some point,

low unemployment = high demand for staff = better wages conditions.

Companies that don't make this leap, lose staff and go out of business

[xanctus]

Coming from the UK I found no problems having my work exp or quals accepted and whenever I've wanted work, I've quickly had multiple offers, I'm convinced if I was browner, with a different accent it would have been more difficult.

Interesting statement foolsgold, as I also have a thought of...NZ is trying to be a pure New England in the south pacific, meaning that many of Brits who come there to liveand work will be granted more than any other people from other countries (especially from third world countries). That is the only concern that have been growing in my mind. Even though I have lived in US and experience from here, but if someones is Asian or whatever (other than white) would find it harder to find/get a job because of their accent and so on :( again I hope this is not true...

[veronica]

got to say Foolsgold that that doesn't seem to apply in Chch. McDs, KFC and BK here seem to be staffed by a fair representation of people, white to black with shades inbetween. It might pay to remember when talking about that kind of job its very often students working there. Same goes for the checkouts at the supermarkets, big mixture there too. On the other side of the coin, you don't see many white faces working at the many thai, chinese, indian etc restaurants.
I agree there is racism in NZ, but there is a lot of non racism if you want to look for that too. but this has been well covered in another thread if you want to do a search for it.

.....hmm...now wasn't this a thread about kiwis leaving for oz. and does anyone know the stats for home grown kiwis leaving, against immigrants who now have NZ citizenship. that could be interesting.

[xanctus]

yeah yeah, let's go back to original topic...pardon me for a bit off track :D just giving my thoughts. :D and what Foolsgold said is not offensive, it's just rather a fact.

[Oregonkiwi]

Speaking as a kiwi who left NZ - remember that kiwis don't only leave NZ for monetary reasons, but also (and I think mainly) for the life experiences that you can't get living on a couple of islands with 4 million people.

[StevieD]

Well said Oregonkiwi! And once you get fed up of those life experiences you can pop straight back!! :)

I think I know what foolsgold was trying to say, don't think there was any malice in it at all. It seems that the butchers shops of England will soon be regaled with the sound of Kiwil voices! I read in the newspaper that Brits don't want to go into the butchery trade, so they are recruiting in Auckland. Interesting hmm....

[macs gold]

I lived and worked in London for 10 years, and probably over 50% of my workmates were not from the South East.

Although London salaries and jobs were one factor, I would suggest that a lot of people move to London because it is a big cosmopolitan city, with lots of buzz and things happening, good accessability to Europe and other destinations, and generally a good place to be for a young person.

Its the same thing for kiwis leaving NZ for one of the bigger Oz cities. Money is good and its a great chance to live in a different country for a while.

[xanctus]

Yeah, I think many kiwis go for a bigger place with many challenges in life. That's why many people has question my plan to move to NZ from US. Which I have my own reasons that many people don't understand. :D

[Hannah]

Have to say i find it hard to imagine anyone emigrating to NZ just to wait to get citizenship in order to be able to live in Oz - seems a long time to wait doesn't it. Having met so many people in my work (health service) here and back in England it appears that people just love new adventures and trying something new. I'm sure that for every nurse that leaves England for NZ there is one from NZ filling their place back in England! Same goes for Oz i guess.

[Avalon]

Have to say i find it hard to imagine anyone emigrating to NZ just to wait to get citizenship in order to be able to live in Oz - seems a long time to wait doesn't it. .

It just so happens that one of the poepl we have met via forums is doing just that :laugh

On the other hand - when we first looked at coming to NZ and there wasnt a hope in hell without a job offer - we had a lot of advise about going to OZ and getting citizenship there so we could get into NZ. Which would have been great - except we had zero interest in living in OZ for a few years.

[jonSE]

Strange how this thread has diversified into two subjects:

my two pen'orth

We are leaving NZ for OZ. Prime reason being OH is too specialised in her profession for there to be any job opportunities here (short of bumping off the one guy here doing "her" job) Something to be aware of if you are emigrating here and are in a specialist field. Remember there is only 4 million people hence there will be 1/15 the number of opportunities there are in the UK (or 1/50 there are in the US) and in some fields they just don't do it here. OTOH if you are a sheep farmer or lumberjack there are probably more opportunities than in the UK.

On the slightly less palatable topic of racism in NZ - unfortunately and despite the legislation there is. Some employers are enlightened especially the larger ones who are international and where skills are short in NZ but they have the work therefore they have to have someone to do it. But (BIG BUT) there are lots of smaller employers out there trying to recruit through recruitment agents who will instruct the agency not to send CV's from anyone who is not white born in NZ, or second best white and native English speaker , despite the fact that this means they will never see any candidates (or if they do they are the white born in NZ's we wouldn't employ anyway) Some aspects of NZ are still anchored in the '60s or before, especially if you aren't in Auck,Wgtn, or Chch.

Sad to be leaving but having an unhappy OH is a good reason to move on.

[Singel]

Moving to NZ makes for happy family
23.03.06
By Simon Collins

When Leli Coluccio answered his cellphone on a stunning Monday morning last week, he was sitting on a boat off Tutukaka.

He wasn't catching a lot, as it turned out. But for this transplanted Sydneysider, just soaking up the Kiwi lifestyle is a luxury.

In Sydney he owned a construction company and lived in a $1 million home, but had to work six days a week, seldom saw his family, and never went fishing.

"It took you an hour to get to the beach in Sydney. You very rarely saw the ocean, and then you couldn't get a park, so you rarely went to the beach."

Here, he and his wife Cathy and children Jonathan and Bronte live in a more modest home in Bucklands Beach, but it is three minutes from the sea.

Jonathan, 15, is being coached by international soccer player Wynton Rufer and has had trips to Australia, Japan and Germany.

Bronte, 13, is training with the current world sports aerobics champion, Angela McMillan.

"They are some of the best coaches in the world and they are here in Auckland," Mrs Coluccio says. "In Australia we would never have got access to those sorts of people ..."

The family shows that the transtasman migration does not have to be all one-way. They came here in 1999 and Mr Coluccio finished Bible College training and took up a position in a church.

The church could not afford to pay him and he endured the "humbling experience" of going back to square one as a labourer, before getting his current job managing a new company, Flat Bush Construction, with orders worth $15 million to $20 million.

The couple feel that Kiwis "talk down" their own country.

"Personally, I think there's every opportunity here," Mr Coluccio says. "The economy is a lot more buoyant in construction than it is in Sydney."

Says Mrs Coluccio: "We have lost earnings through me being at home ... but we have had a family lifestyle and Leli has been able to be there and involved with our son and daughter."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10373942

Why settlers just won't settle down..............................
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10373943

[Gran]

There was a letter in the Herald too today from someone in Aussie who said that the very policies that dragged down the wages in NZ are about to be enacted over there, so long term Aussie is not as good a proposition as it appears.

[Singel]

There was a letter in the Herald too today from someone in Aussie who said that the very policies that dragged down the wages in NZ are about to be enacted over there, so long term Aussie is not as good a proposition as it appears.
Here is the letter........................

Having moved from Auckland to Sydney in 2000, I have calculated that a person on $100,000 living in Auckland or Wellington would need to earn at least A$150,000 to breakeven here - and that does not count the cost of moving or of housing.
I sold a 4000 sq ft house in Remuera and paid almost twice as much for a 2000 sq ft apartment in Rushcutters Bay in Sydney.
Australia has much to offer but people need to do their sums carefully if the only reason for the move is short-term money.
This is especially true in less skilled positions because next week, Australia will finally embrace virtually the same industrial relations law that has driven New Zealand wages so low in relation to those of Australia.
- Ralf Harding, Sydney.

[Singel]

There was a letter in the Herald too today from someone in Aussie who said that the very policies that dragged down the wages in NZ are about to be enacted over there, so long term Aussie is not as good a proposition as it appears.
Here is the letter........................
Having moved from Auckland to Sydney in 2000, I have calculated that a person on $100,000 living in Auckland or Wellington would need to earn at least A$150,000 to breakeven here - and that does not count the cost of moving or of housing.
I sold a 4000 sq ft house in Remuera and paid almost twice as much for a 2000 sq ft apartment in Rushcutters Bay in Sydney.
Australia has much to offer but people need to do their sums carefully if the only reason for the move is short-term money.
This is especially true in less skilled positions because next week, Australia will finally embrace virtually the same industrial relations law that has driven New Zealand wages so low in relation to those of Australia.
- Ralf Harding, Sydney.
Some info about the Australia new IR laws : http://www.alliance.org.au/content/view/135/83/
http://www.alliance.org.au/rightsatwork



hmmm................................. :roll :uhoh

[Juniper]

since our primary reason for considering new zealand is that we want better conditions for our future kids (education, safety, health, civil rights etc), it would be terribly ironic if they grew up and emmigrated elsewhere for a bigger paycheck :-P

well, who knows what things will be like in 20 yrs...

[Singel]

Advancing fair out of Australia

03.04.06
By Gemma Daley

SYDNEY - Stephen and Donna McWilliams are giving Australia a big headache.

Nine years ago, they left their native Perth to live in Singapore, attracted by the city-state's lower income taxes.

Between higher salaries and less tax, they are taking home 50 per cent more than they would have in Australia - enough to let them retire before they are 40.

"We would never dream of earning this much at home," said Donna McWilliams, 30, a mother of two. "We came here because the tax rate is so low."

Alen Tyler, a labour economist at the Australian National University in Canberra, said tax refugees such as the McWilliams - Stephen is a lawyer, Donna a dental nurse - were costing Australia A$4 billion ($4.7 billion) a year and contributing to a "brain drain".

So critical is the issue that the Government is facing calls to cut the top income tax rate to 30 per cent from 47 per cent.

Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade figures put the number of Australians working abroad at 861,878, up from 705,000 a decade ago.

Australia is not alone in its brain drain - the loss of talent in New Zealand could be even greater with more than 400,000 people born in that country now resident in Australia. They generally give their reason for leaving as higher wages - generally about 30 per cent more in Australia.

In February, Australian Treasurer Peter Costello appointed Caltex Australia chairman Dick Warburton, 68, and Peter Hendy, 44, chief executive officer of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, to review the country's tax system. They are due to report the results today.

Politicians and executives are pressuring Costello to use some of the estimated A$11.5 billion budget surplus to cut taxes. Tax revenue has almost doubled to A$202 billion in the 10 years since Prime Minister John Howard, 66, won office.

Hendy said recently: "There has been a genuine issue about tax and a brain drain. This will be looked at as part of the review as we compare tax systems from different countries."

Hendy and Warburton have been comparing Australia's tax system to other members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development and to low-taxing neighbours such as Singapore and Hong Kong.

They have taken into account the total tax burden, which includes a 10 per cent sales tax on most goods and services, a 1.5 per cent levy on high-income earners to help fund the national health care system, and state government fees on transactions ranging from buying a home to registering a car. Australia's highest 47 per cent tax rate kicks in at A$95,000 a year.

In the US, the top federal tax rate of 35 per cent applies to people earning more than US$326,450. State income taxes range from zero in nine states, to as high as 10.3 per cent in California on incomes of more than US$1 million.

Australia has the ninth-highest top personal income level of OECD nations, behind Denmark, Sweden, France, Belgium, Finland, the Netherlands, Japan and Austria.

A 2004 survey of 450 Australian expatriates by the Victorian Endowment for Science Knowledge and Innovation found 32 per cent of people were attracted by a higher income with one-third of respondents earning more than A$310,000 a year.

"The high rate of income tax counts against Australia in attracting and retaining skilled workers from overseas and luring home Australians who have left to work overseas," Business Council of Australia president Michael Chaney said.

The council, an association of CEOs of Australia's top 100 companies, who employ one million people and produce 30 per cent of the nation's exports, has called on the Government to keep a "permanent watch" on the tax system to make sure it remains internationally competitive.

Craig Marran, 38, at National Australia Bank in Hong Kong, said he would not consider returning to Australia until taxes were cut.

"It would have to be a big tax cut for me to come home," said Marran, who, like the McWilliams, saw his earnings rise 50 per cent.

"I'm paying 15 per cent here compared with as high as 47 per cent in Australia. That speaks for itself."

Hendy said cutting the top tax rate to 30 per cent might help to draw high- income earners, but it would not happen overnight.

The Labour Party's deputy leader, Jenny Macklin, said: "There's no reason for our skilled workers to come back because it's like taking an instant pay cut when you get off the plane. The Government is swimming in money and it's time to encourage workers back to an economy that'sin dire straits on skills."

GREENER FIELDS

* 861,878 Australians are working abroad, up from 705,000 a decade ago.

* Their loss to the economy is estimated at A$4 billion.

* Most give high taxes as their reasons for leaving.

* There have been calls to cut the top income tax rate from 47 per cent to 30 per cent.