[jo-and-jeff]

I've tried to get this information from Allied Pickford's in Auckland with no help whatsoever other than a link to an extremely general document on the MAF website which I had already seen (no food, no plants, etc.) We know another emigrant who had boots confiscated because they didn't clean the mud off of them; this is the kind of specific information which I am seeking.

Are manufacturer-packaged spices (oregano, basil, etc.) considered "food"?

I know someone said they brought in boxes of mac-and-cheese; was this "snuck" in, or are such items legal?

I've got silk floral arrangements with decorative moss in them. Will MAF confiscate these?

If any of you would be willing to post which of your item(s) the MAF either confiscated or required to be fumigated, it would be really helpful and very much appreciated.

Jo

[clg]

You will probably be OK with food that is closed up completely, they did not really look at ours but they might choose to. We brought hot sauce, mac and cheese, canned foods, spice packets (mexican seasoning and ranch dressing) and maple syrup. No problems. Don't bring open spices/herbs containers. They are fairly cheap here anyways so unless you have it already just get it here. They are looking for camping things, outdoor things, and decorative items that might have seeds, etc. What they look at will come down to how it is recorded on the inventory. They looked closely at tools too and things that were marked garage. Just make sure they are clean. They say how clean some outdoor items were and sort of eased off after that.

[Avalon]

That document really is a waste of space isnt it?

We had nothing confiscated - despite setting aside for inspection a number of deer skins, horn spoons, mead horns, and foodstuffs and medicines. All got through.

With regards to foods - herbs and spices seem to get through. We didnt bring any - so thats just hearsay for me rather than experience. All the food we did send - we put in a "Maf Box" for them to inspect. This is exactly what we do when coming through the airport - tell 'em everything. For my money its not worth hiding it - though I know some people do.

We have brought through products with nuts in, sugar substitutes (which look awfully dodgy - so we always send in original packaging). Pre-prepared mac 'n' cheese should be ok. One way ive started to look at this; Whats on teh shelves in the supermarkets here that is imported???? If the supermarkets are bringing similar stuff in - then its allowed through customs.

Honey - or products containing honey - dont bring it. (Although Mead got through :nice1 )

[Park City Partner]

We have MAF coming to our place tomorrow to inspect 62 boxes/items! We were surprised by how many they wanted to see but believe it is in part because our inventory, prepared by our nightmare movers (on another thread), was poorly done....although we do have a fair amount of camping gear, kayaks, bikes and tools.

I will let you know how it turns out when I get a report from my partner who will be there for the inspection..I am back in the States so am missing all the fun.

[jo-and-jeff]

Finally...

I have some useful information. Unfortunately, it's too late to do me any good, but I am so furious right now, I figured that I could at least post this information where it would do some good for someone else.

At this point, our "3-6 week" delivery time is at 10+ weeks and counting, our container went from Baltimore, MD, U.S. to Valencia, Spain, and appeared in Sydney, Australia after nearly 6 weeks spent, as nearly as I can tell, in the Bermuda Triangle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bermuda_Triangle). Frankly, I have my doubts that we will ever see it again.

However, in case of an eventual appearance by our container, in order to get it released to us, we have to fill out Customs Form NZCS 218, Unaccompanied Personal Baggage Declaration (http://www.customs.govt.nz/library/form/nzcs+forms/nzcs+218.asp). This form has the information I tried in vain to get before the movers came to our house, and it is critical to the packing process.

Goods of Quarantine Interest

Does the baggage contain:

• Food of any kind (raw or processed)
• Animals (alive or dead) or animal products including, but not limited to: medicines, meat (fresh or dried), skins, feathers, bone, wool, eggs, cultures, shells, hair, honey, or hunting trophies, and manufactured items made from animal products including skins, ivory, and fur
• Plants or plant products including, but not limited to: fruit, vegetables, seeds, flowers (fresh or dried), nuts, bulbs, cane, straw, bamboo, wood or wooden artifacts
• Equipment used with animals or plants including, but not limited to: saddlery, bee-keeping equipment, things to prevent pests or disease in animals, or items associated with forests or trees
• Used camping, garden or sporting equipment, bicycles, vehicles, soil, or water

In the past 30 days, while outside New Zealand, have you been:
• in contact with any animals?
• to a farm, abattoir or meat packing house?
• in a forest or hiking, camping, hunting in rural areas or parkland?

Prohibited and Restricted Goods

• Articles manufactured from wildlife including, but not limited to: reptiles, snakes, elephants, rhinoceroses, hippopotamuses, members of the cat family, whales, dolphins, zebras, antelope, deer, birds, feathers, coral, or shells
• Controlled Drugs of any kind including, but not limited to: LSD, heroin, cocaine, cannabis, ecstasy, steroids, or performance enhancing drugs
• Prescribed Medicines of any kind
• Objectionable/Indecent articles of any kind including, but not limited to: child pornography, material depicting bestiality, or material which may promote, incite, or instruct in matters of crime or violence, or misuse of a drug. These articles can be in such forms as printed publications, video tapes, films, records, CD-ROMS, or other recorded media
• Weapons of any kind including but not limited to: firearms or parts thereof, replica firearms, spring bladed knives, daggers, knuckle dusters, sword sticks, or bayonets.
If you answered YES to any of the above please list the items below.

Specific Goods

• Cigarettes, cigars, tobacco, or alcoholic liquor
• Goods for commercial purposes (including goods for sale,lease, hire, exchange, or use in your own business)
• New or unused goods, or gifts intended for other persons. Also refer** under Note—Arrival Status on page 1
• Goods belonging to any person not listed on this declaration
• Motor vehicle(s), motorcycle(s), caravan(s), trailer(s), watercraft, or aircraft
• Cash in any currency to the value of NZ$10,000 or more.
I had to answer "Yes" to every single one of the "Quarantine Interest" questions. I knew to have the patio, garden, and sporting equipment pressure-washed with antibacterial soap, and to have it packed on the container the last thing, since MAF would certainly want to see it.

However, there is a papasan chair with a cane base, which was one of the first things that was packed and is therefore at the very back of the container. In addition, there are some dry food goods, a lacquered Paua shell, cat kennels and scratching post, and of course, some of my clothing has some wool content. Although I brought most of my prescription drugs with me in my baggage, I've got a few prescriptions in the container as well. I'm not even going to get into the subject of the dozens of furniture and decor items which are all made of wood.

I haven't the slightest idea in which box any of this stuff is, never mind where on the container it's loaded. The boxes on the manifest are labeled things like "Clothes" and "Bathroom". None of them are labeled "Food" or "Medicine". MAF charges per item that they inspect. I've already been told that delivery of our container will be "suspended" until I provide a letter from a doctor stating that it's okay for me to have these prescriptions, despite the fact that none of them are narcotics. (Thanks ever so much for the advance notice, how am I supposed to come up with that now???)

We have 391 pieces in our shipment (many of which are small, individual boxed items which they did not bother to pack together in one big carton, a fact about which I am not happy, either). Is MAF going to insist on going through all of them to find the items of interest?

So... here are my

Recommendations for organizing items to be packed and shipped:


Take all of your prescription drugs with you on the plane. If you absolutely have to send some prescriptions in your container, get a letter from your Doctor ahead of time and take it with you on the plane.
If you bring in Prohibited Items, be sure to declare them. It's not worth getting busted and having to pay a huge fine -- never mind that it might jeopardize your Visa status. Be aware that there is a possibility such items may be confiscated.
Make sure that any items on the above list get put on the container last thing, so that they will be first out.
For all of the questionable items which are small, pack them in a carton(s) together, so that MAF has to open the fewest possible number of cartons for inspection.
Make sure that all of your garden, patio, tools, and sporting equipment items are squeaky-clean (this includes cases, covers, or containers for those items). Have them steam-cleaned or laundered or pressure-washed (with antibacterial soap if possible). If you pay to have this done, instead of doing it yourself, take your receipts with you on the plane.
Make sure that your moving company does not label any cartons "Miscellaneous"; these are automatically flagged by MAF for examination.


Here's MAF's fee chart:
number of risk inspection price including GST
items to be Albany & North, Titirangi
inspected greater Auckland West, South of Papakura
1 $ 143.34 $ 172.20
2-4 $ 165.84 $ 194.70
5-12 $ 193.97 $ 222.83
13-20 $ 222.09 $ 250.95
21-28 $ 250.22 $ 279.08
29-36 $ 278.34 $ 307.20
36+ to be advised to be advised

[Avalon]

[[list]
Take all of your prescription drugs with you on the plane. If you absolutely have to send some prescriptions in your container, get a letter from your Doctor ahead of time and take it with you on the plane.
If you've got any prohibited items, get rid of them. It's not worth getting busted and having to pay a huge fine -- never mind that it might jeopardize your Visa status.

We have brought both prescription meds and items on the prohibited list through maf. You dont nesecarilly have to get rid of them. All were packed as specifiacally for MAF inspection - and all got passed through. We even get prescrition meds sent through the post. The customs forms say what in them, and on the one occasion a pachages has been inspected my MAF - it was passed.

Also, I was under the impression that you would get fined if you imported a prohibited item and DIDNT tell MAF you had it and they found out. I thought that if they decide to not let something through - they dont fine you if you told them about it. Is that not the case? We certainly werent fined for the skins or weapons.

[jo-and-jeff]

Avalon,

You're right and I'll amend my post above as follows:

If you bring in Prohibited Items, be sure to declare them. Be aware that there is a possibility such items may be confiscated.

Thanks,

Jo

[Park City Partner]

Jo, take a deep breath. It won't be that bad. When I filled out that form I asked a bunch of questions of the Allied people because I had clothes with wool and wood furniture etc. They told me not to worry about that stuff. I had the same problem with the prescription meds and ended up having my NZ OBGYN send a letter which was fine but I could have gotten my US Dr. to fax something as well. And yea, would have been nice to know that little issue in advance!Argh!.

At the end of the day of the stuff MAF pulled to inspect they looked at very little and confiscated nothing nor fumigated anything. Don't worry about where it is in the container as in our case they unloaded the entire container at our house and put all the stuff that MAF wanted to look at in the garage...which frankly makes no sense to me as the stuff is already in the country and in my garage so what good is MAF at the point..but what ever...
As it turns out we had stuff packed by the movers that wasn't supposed to come like dog beds and other dog stuff that MAF never even looked at. I think /hope you will find that the whole MAF thing is not as big a deal as you think it will be.

Good luck!

[Nienke]

Don't worry about it too much Jo, it will be fine! We have wooden furniture and they never took a look at it. We had a box labelled 'food' and the MAF did not even want to inspect it. We had a tent in the container, and they did not want to see it. They did inspect some camping gear, the vacuum cleaner, our bikes, stuff like that. They also wanted to see our christmas decorations.
I cleaned everything thoroughly before it went into the container, and everything got through.

You don't have to know where the boxes are in the container. When they deliver the container to the door, you stand with your box-list and the list that the MAF wants to see. The movers call out the numbers on the boxes as they carry them into the house, you tick the list and when it's a MAF-box you call 'MAF' and they will put it aside. We had the Moving Company here, so that's how they do it, I'm sure that's pretty standard!

[jo-and-jeff]

Nienke and Amy,

I appreciate the kind words. I'm more disgusted than freaking out. If the moving company knows that if I admit to having prescriptions in the container they can't even release the container to me without a letter from the doctor, why in the world aren't they telling me ahead of time???

I offered to just surrender the drugs once the container was opened, but No, they won't even let us open the container until I produce such a letter! Considering that in the last 5 years I've seen 6 GPs, 2 Allergists, an ENT, 2 Dermatologists, and 2 Opthalmologists, you can understand why, without being able to look at the labels on the meds (which are in the container precisely because I use them only when they're needed and not every day), I wouldn't even know what Doctor in the U.S. to call to get such a letter.

Further complicating this mess is the fact that there is no place in Parnell to park a container (you're lucky if you can find a place to park a car), so if it ever arrives the container has to be taken back to Allied's premises and unpacked there to be put on a smaller truck for delivery. This means that a bunch of stuff will have to be unpacked from the container for the MAF inspection and then repacked into it, unless Allied is going to allocate 5 small trucks to us at one time during the unpacking (which isn't likely).

What a fiasco.

All I can tell you is, if our container ever arrives, and our stuff is actually delivered to our house, there's going to be one heck of a celebration/stress relief party, and you're all welcome to come.

:roll

[Avalon]

I offered to just surrender the drugs once the container was opened, but No, they won't even let us open the container until I produce such a letter!

Further complicating this mess is the fact that there is no place in Parnell to park a container (you're lucky if you can find a place to park a car), so if it ever arrives the container has to be taken back to Allied's premises and unpacked there to be put on a smaller truck for delivery. This means that a bunch of stuff will have to be unpacked from the container for the MAF inspection and then repacked into it, unless Allied is going to allocate 5 small trucks to us at one time during the unpacking (which isn't likely).



Jo, (or jeff).

I may have missed this bit - if so im sorry - but I was wondering if you are maybe getting duff info from someone here. I ask because I cant remember ever being asked for proof that the meds were needed. I think we did have a copy of the prescriptions, but I really dont remember being asked for them by the shippers. (It was 12 and 18 months ago though). So Im wondering - is it the shippers who have told you this - or Maf / customs? If its the shippers - it may a good idea to start talking to Maf or customs directly and see what they say. (get anything in writing). Im just a bit suss that you seem to be being told a lot of heavy stuff that most of us dont seem to get and i wonder if you are being led a merry dance - it wouldnt be unknown for it to happen.

Also, with regard to delivering to the home - the shippers should be able to offer you the option of deleivering in trucks. Both our deliveries (2oft each) were actually brought to us on a normal moving truck, after being first offloaded at the depot.

Im really sorry you seem to be having such a rough time of this. I hope it improves.

[katandbob]

I was told by my nice maf lady that prescription drugs mean anything you cant get over the counter, and as I had only brought, asprin, antihistamines etc, I was ok, that the best thing is to look at the lists, and anything that is likely to intrest MAF then pack it in the same boxes... wooden furniture is not flagged, but say a driftwood sculpture would be, the latter could harbour bugs/spores.

I received my boxes, yesterday (currently house is a tip! but it was fun seeing what I had packed)...only hicup was my mums figurine she gave her broke...oops, and the glass of one picture frame. but as I didnt insure for breakages its a fact and thats that.

Nothing was fusty or anything like that, but I fogot to put any extension leads to plug my uk phones into....so I am going to have to buy some adapters :-(

kat

[Park City Partner]

Jo, I felt the same way about the moving company not telling me about the prescription issue BEFORE I left the States and our stuff was packed. You won't need to get the prescribing doctor to write the letter, any doctor will do. My NZ doc wrote my letter. I just tried to remember what I scripts I had packed and he wrote the letter. In fact, one drug was mis-spelled badly so it could have been different. I don't know if they every even looked at the drugs. Since Jeff is a Dr. you might even be able to get him to write the letter. All my letter said was that I needed to have the following drugs and then a list.

I know how incredibly frustrating the whole move thing can be. Been there done that. Fortunately we had very little breakage and the things that did break weren't worth the effort for a claim as I just wanted to be done with the movers and never wanted to speak/deal with them ever again.

Hang in there, it will eventually be over.

[jo-and-jeff]

I obtained a letter from my Doctor here in NZ stating what the drugs on my declaration are for, that they are all legal and available in NZ, and that she would be willing to prescribe them for me as necessary. It cost me $65. I informed Allied Pickford's that I expected them to cover the cost, since it was caused by their negligence in failing to inform me that such a letter would be required -- despite the fact that on at least 5 different occasions before the move I contacted the Allied offices in Auckland, the U.S., and Int'l in Toronto BEGGING for information regarding Customs Restrictions and Regulations. Their response:
We do apologise for the inconvenience, but this was beyond our control. We were not advised that you were bringing prescribed medication into the country, if we had prior notice we would have advised you.
And for those of you who were convinced that I was just paranoid:
MAF have done the screening of your inventory this afternoon and there are alot of items that need to be inspected, 114 in total.Obviously, we drew the most anal-retentive Inspector on NZ Customs' roster. If we get charged for 114 items because Allied in the U.S. did not pack a ton of small individual things together in one carton (which they didn't), I will be having "words" with them.

[Howie]

Jo,
Hope everything turns out fine. Just wanted to share our MAF experience which wasn't too bad. We didn't have a full container, so everything was unloaded at the port (actually, it arrived in Auckland by train from who knows where) and then delivered to our house by truck, so MAF inspected it before it got to our house. We asked if we could be there for the inspection. The MAF guy actually called us to talk about our shipment and tell us we really didn't need to be there. We had a lot of camping and dog stuff, but we were careful not to pack anything like food or cane. When our stuff arrived, they called to say they wanted to fumigate a rug that had a lot of dog hair as well as a dog crate (that we washed and washed and washed but still smelled like dog). Telling them that they already let the dog into the country didn't help. When our stuff arrived at our house, we found the rug and the dog crate also delivered, and we figured they had already fumigated it. We got a call a few days later asking if they could pick up those items because they hadn't actually fumigated them and they somehow got on the truck. They picked up the stuff and dropped it off about a week later. Judging from the opened boxes, they went through our camping, sporting and christmas decorations. Now I really wish I could remember how much they charged us for the inspection and fumigation, but I think it was about $200 - maybe less.
Overall it was pretty painless and the MAF guy was really quite reasonable.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
Susan

[Park City Partner]

Don't get me started on Allied! ARGGH!

We had 68 out of 240 items pulled for MAF but when they came to inspect they didn't look at much. I wasn't here for it but Andy was and he said it was no big deal. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that it will be the same....hang in there the nightmare is almost over for you.

[katandbob]

Hi,

I asked Nicola, the Maf lady what you got charged if you needed stuff inspected..she said its $50 for half hour...(maybe its just Auckland that charges by the box?) and if they have to go a long way to inspect the stuff then its also charged...ie if it takes 15mins to get to you, then you have all the stuff that needs to be inspected in one box..or two if you have loads etc...AT THE FRONT of your container...IE PUT IN LAST. and it took 15mins to look through the 2 boxes...it would cost $100....well thats how I took what she said...

If you have an actual question, I could always ask her for you.

So it obviously pays to have all the things you suspect that they will want to look at in the same boxes, the quicker it is for them to inspect the stuff the cheaper it will be for you.

YOU CAN bring rattan/wicker baskets, they will just want to look at them.

AND if you do like that sort of stuff, and you know that MAF are going to want to look at some other stuff...bring them...they are expensive in NZ!
BUT dont bring your BBQ...they are cheap here, so are compressors...Robs saw one in Mitre 10 mega today for $400 and $75 for the tools! he got all excited at the thought of buying tools when we get a house :laugh

good luck,

Kat

[tee and dee]

Sorry to be e bit dumb at this point but having asked PSS this afternoon about MAF etc I was told it could be randomly inspected and most containers are being done these days - that it would take place at the quarantine and Van Lines would supervise it for us, pay and then give us a receipt at the final destination. Are there two different systems workin g then - one which takes place at you house on arrival ? Very confusing - and mention of wool items !!!! We bought two large and quite expensive NZ wool rugs to take - shippers never mentioned them being a problem - it would be ironic wouldn't it as they came from NZ sheep ?
Cheers, Tracey

[Smiler]

Tracey

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Do not let NZVL do this. Insist on it being done at your house as they will charge you the MAF fees and then their 'commission' on top. Once they have your stuff, they have you by the short and curlies until you pay. This is how we got caught and now I know better.

I'm sure they will tell you how much quicker and easier it is if they take the burden from your tired shoulders but in reality MAF are helpful if they are dealing directly with you not a shipper. If they are doing it through a shipper they'll just refer you back to them, particularly NZVL.

Your list of stuff is looked and and then they mark what they want to inspect, but let the shippers deliver straight to your house and they'll put anything to one side as MAF will have told them what they want to look at.

If need be, they'll set a up a quarantine area in your garage. Don't laugh, but they just put the boxes there and tell you not to use the stuff. Jubjub and Alijax had this done. I remember reading their posts while I was still in the UK, so have a search for them. Off the top of my head more recently, Marie P and Nienke have also done the same.

Once MAF have done their inspection, they'll send you a bill. MAF refused to tell me the total of their charges for us and again referred me to NZVL. One delivery guy 'accidently' left a MAF invoice behind of $45 and we were charged $150 by NZVL for the same thing.

No problem on wool items, we brought 2 large rugs as well and they weren't checked. They only thing I cold think they would want to look at them for would be to see if they had any outside stuff, like mud or stuff.

HTH you will have to be insistent but forewarned is forearmed.

[Avalon]

Strangly enough - was an=bout to say just that but Smiler got there first.

If you are dealing with NZVL - get maf done at your place and pay them yourself.

Its so much easier than going through all the agro.

Good luck.

[Nienke]

Yes indeed, let the MAF come to your house, and also ask to pay the MAF directly!!! The Moving Company wanted some 600 dollars :exit up front for the MAF-fees....., but thanks to this forum I knew what they were trying to pull off and I refused to pay until after the MAF had been to our house and after I had seen the MAF bill and I also told them why :D . (no bill yet by the way). The MAF-lady told me they knew about the scams all the moving companies are doing, but they could not do anything about it except to alert the customers. She also told me that they got instructions from the Moving Company NOT to tell the customers how much the inspection would cost...can you believe that! She said that from that moment on she always told the customer what the bill would be.
Unfortunately I could not pay the MAF directly as they did have some agreement with the Moving Company, but she gave me a receipt with the amount due (which was around 100 dollars....).

[Marie P]

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5336

Here is my story of my Maf fees !!

We couldn't actually pay MAF direct but we only paid $150 to the Movers and they accepted it and we never heard from them again .

Marie x

[tee and dee]

Many thanks Smiler and Avalon - will take your advice very seriously,
Tracey

[tee and dee]

Marie,
I was under the impression that these van companies expect payment there and then as they deliver - as someone said they do have your stuff so are advantaged. When do i say MAF to inspect - before they arrive ? Getting a bit confused now - not surprising with the heat and the 2 million things i need to do when i finish looking at forum. :confused: Clarification anyone - please - who do I tell what to and when ? Am about to book shippers in next two days,
cheers Tracey

[Smiler]

Marie,
I was under the impression that these van companies expect payment there and then as they deliver - as someone said they do have your stuff so are advantaged. When do i say MAF to inspect - before they arrive ? Getting a bit confused now - not surprising with the heat and the 2 million things i need to do when i finish looking at forum. :confused: Clarification anyone - please - who do I tell what to and when ? Am about to book shippers in next two days,
cheers Tracey

Tracey

Just make it clear to your shippers that you will require MAF to inspect anything that requires inspecting, at your house. When you get here, there is time to call MAF and arrange it or tell the shippers here in NZ that is what you are doing. Don't let them twist your arm into having the inspection at their premises because it is easier, quicker or any other old ballony. They will do everything to say that MAF will charge mileage, travelling time, tea time, anything! There may be a small charge but a lot less if you pay MAF direct and MAF should tell you how much that would be.

You will probably have to visit the shippers and show some documentation. NZVL even wanted to see our marriage certificate and when told we didn't have one,(us not being married an' all) wanted proof of our relationship. It was around this point that I lost it. :D Bring all your shipping docs with you, don't pack them in the container.

You will only be required to pay after the inspection and I'm sure the MAF person will tell you roughly how much it will be and tell you the invoice will be in the post. Whether it arrives is another thing. ;)

You shouldn't have to pay the shippers in NZ anything else as it should all be included in your quote from the Uk company.

I can't stress enough how easy this is to do once you are here and how easy it is to get ripped off because 'some shipper in the know, offers to help'.

If you're stuck, come back hear and ask before agreeing to anything. :D

Sorry I realise the above wasn't addressed to me, but this is one of my soapbox things and I'd hate to see anyone ripped off.

[Marie P]

Smiler is correct ,just let the delivery guys do their stuff and then tell them you will pay MAF direct ,even if you cant .....then weeks later ,you have your belongings and you have already asked MAF what their approx fees are ,just pay the shippers what MAF asked for .

Hope that makes sense [wine sale at countdown :cheers ]

Marie x

[tee and dee]

Am I glad you have that soapbox, Smiler - now I just have to explain it all to my OH, I tried on the phone this morning but I didn't really know what i was talking about (bit more enlightened now thanks to you guys),
Cheers, Tracey
p.s. anyone want to buy a child's quad bike ??

[Tia Maria]

We had our lawn mower taken for cleaning, it was a bit grubby so it wasn't a surprise. It was cleaned at the Quarantine Treatment Centre ($50), and we needed to pick it up.

The main downside was that NZ Vanlines took so long to tell us it was ready, and it was 4 months before we got our hands on it, even though it had been available for collection for about 3 months.

In the meantime, we took on the lawnmower service that the previous owners had used and we are more than happy to have them continue, so we no longer need the lawn mower.

So if its an important item, definitely keep on hassling NZ VanLines to get it back!

Cheers

Tia

[jo-and-jeff]

Well, I am here to report that our container finally arrived in Auckland -- no,Tauranga on June 26 -- no, July 12 -- no, July 15 -- no, July 20 -- no, July 22 -- no, July 23 -- no, July 24 (yes, we were put off repeatedly with revised arrival guesstimates), and our possessions were finally delivered to our new place on July 28.

However, those of you who are familiar with Auckland city know that being able to park a 40-ft container in any neighborhood there is as likely as winning the lottery (okay, maybe you are more likely to hit the lottery). We rented a townhouse in a small complex of 4, which has a very narrow driveway, and naturally, our unit is the furthest back.

Allied Pickford's informed us that our items would be offloaded from the container at their location, the items MAF wanted to see separated out, and everything else packed onto smaller trucks for delivery. We had no control over the process whatsoever, other than that they at least honoured my request (demand) that I be present for the MAF inspection.

The MAF inspector looked at every one of the items they'd specified, and took about an hour. There were actually less than 114, because when the movers had to tape two cartons together to be big enough to hold something they assigned two manifest numbers to the one carton, so that they could charge us for 2 items; thus MAF charged us for 2 items as well. Furthermore, the movers had placed numbers on and loaded quite a few items about the size of a coffeemaker, rather than putting several of them in one big carton, so that they could charge us for more items; thus MAF charged us for more items as well. I am so NOT happy about this.

I was presented with an additional bill for over $1,000 at the site and told that our possessions would not be delivered until it was paid. Can you say "extortion"? Sure. I knew you could.

Our MAF fee was $518.00, and I was informed that this figure was higher than our actual cost because Allied had paid several staff members to help the inspector with the unwrapping and rewrapping. I called MAF the next morning, and they told me that their share of those fees was $136.69. I am even more so NOT happy about this. I'd love to hear Allied's explanation of why their staff were apparently each paid more than $50.00 an hour for their 90-minute service.

We were also charged $450 for the "long carry", i.e. the unpacking of items from the container into smaller trucks with multiple deliveries. I was expecting that, since I knew from a previous move that delivery to low-accessibility areas will cost extra. I have no idea whether what we were charged was reasonable.

I am so [expletive deleted] sick of this crap that I have not even wanted to talk about it until now. The person at Allied Pickford's with whom I worked during the month before our container arrived, I believe did a good job for us and was very helpful to me. The people who packed for us in the US were pretty great. I'd like to be able to recommend Allied Pickford's because of the great work their employees did, but the company for which they work doesn't have very much credibility in my book. Allied's internal administration is responsible for all of the lack of information and deliberate overcharging with which I've had to deal.

:mad:

[katandbob]

I called MAF the next morning, and they told me that their share of those fees was $136.69. I am even more so NOT happy about this. I'd love to hear Allied's explanation of why their staff were apparently each paid more than $50.00 an hour for their 90-minute service.

:mad:




Sorry Jo, I bet your fed up! and this was one of the reasons I decided to leave our stuff behind and buy new stuff, I have a few more things that I forgot. :o but I am getting my parents to post them bit by bit.

These Removals firms think that they can rip people off with MAF fees but times are a changing thanks to forums and peoples experiences - the more we are outspoken about the way they treat their customers hopefully it will change for the better.

Take a big breath, unpack and settle into your new life...hopefully the major stress is overwith....oh and kick up a fuss with Allied, you never know they may refund you.???

Kat

[Nienke]

I got a letter from the Moving Company yesterday, a bill for 650 dollars in overdue "MAF fees" that they wanted to us to pay up front and we didn't (see my earlier post). It had a sticker on it saying 'a gentle reminder' which really infuriated me....and I send them an email which stated in very clear terms what I thought of them and their fraudulent ways. I'm afraid I wasn't too diplomatic in my use of language and have not received an answer (yet...).
I still have not received the original MAF invoices and we're not paying anything until we've seen them. But now I'm a bit afraid in might turn into a long long battle. :mad:

[jo-and-jeff]

Nienke,

Don't wait for a MAF invoice, there may not be one coming if your moving company short-circuited the process (I never received a MAF invoice).

Gather your shipping ID (bill of lading, transit code, or other numbers you can find) and call MAF with the date of your inspection to find out the total amount. Tell them you want to pay them directly and find out how to do that; if your moving company did already (which I suspect is the case), then send your moving company a check for the actual MAF charges with a letter explaining why this is all the money that they are going to get from you. Write "MAF fees payment in full" in the Memo portion of your check.

Good Luck!

Jo

[Nienke]

Thanks Jo, I will do as you suggest!

[Havana]

Are you sure that figure of $136.69 is right? I doubt it. If they inspected that many items it would more likely be around $315 + a zone fee.

I am all for people getting a fair go at all that but these forums are very one sided and the client is always right. Right?

[jo-and-jeff]

Are you sure that figure of $136.69 is right? I doubt it. If they inspected that many items it would more likely be around $315 + a zone fee.
As I mentioned, many of the "114 items" were packed in two cartons taped together, and Allied assigned a number to each carton, so many items each had 2 of the 114 numbers. The $136.69 was the amount the guy on the phone at MAF gave me from directly looking up the record for our inspection using our shipping container number, so I believe it to be accurate.

Furthermore, the item charge table I posted above was on a piece of paper created and given to me by Allied Pickford's, not by MAF. Based on what everyone else in this and another forum has reported about their inspection fee ($70-85 for about a half hour), I strongly suspect that this fee schedule was created by Allied and not by MAF, and it is used to justify the outrageous additional fees that they stick to customers.

Bottom line: Refuse to let your moving company pay your MAF fee for you. Tell them that you will pay MAF directly and bills from them for the inspection will NOT be paid. Call MAF yourself to get the amount if you have to.

Unfortunately, if you are in the unfortunate position of requiring a "long carry", where your items have to be divided into smaller trucks for delivery like ours did, there's not a whole lot you can do to prevent this extortion since they will simply refuse to give you your possessions. All you can do is complain to the moving company afterward, and talk about your bad experience on the Internet where other people can learn from it.

Jo

By the way, Havana, it's clear from all of your posts (http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/search.php?do=finduser&userid=1460) that you work for or are affiliated in some way with a shipping company. It certainly seems that what you're really all for is defending the shipping company. You're implying that I'm not being truthful about my circumstances, and I find that rather offensive. I don't need to stretch the truth to make Allied Pickford's look bad; they did that all by themselves.

[Avalon]

but these forums are very one sided and the client is always right. Right?

Umm - not really :D Theres always teh odd argy-bargy even on this forum :D

Even when being less than nice about shipping companies - you will find that "the other side" is given in the way of posts complementing them. Even NZ Van lines occasionally gets a good review. Unfortunately - on this topic particularly there is an pretty organised scam on the part of the shipping companies to rip migrants off on thier maf fees. They are doing it full in the knowledge that most of the time they get away with it, and no one in auuthority gives two hoots about what is going on. The companies should get a bad rep, and I do think that Jo-and-jeff are right in yet again highlighting the depths to which these companies will stoop to grab a bit more money. I mean - taping two boxes together and callin it two items?????

Lets not forget - they often hold people to ransom to screw this money out people; refusing to let people have thier lifes posessions back till its paid. Its legal extortion and people do need to know about it.

Edited to add: Lets also not forget that we spend £Thousands to ship our goods over and the ONLY thing that is excluded is the MAF fee itself. NOT the maf fee + whatever the NZ subcontractor feels like adding on to cover thier fees - they have already been paid that out of the £thousands we have already spent. If they feel thast enough - they have to take that up with the UK company - not steal it out of our back pockets.

[Havana]

Jo,

Yes I am involved in the shipping industry and all I am trying to do is give a little balance here, is that a crime? although I dont know why I waste my time. I have said many times that I believe in a fair deal and that there are companies out there over charging. I know what MAF charge and what you are being charged for that amount of items is not correct. I am sorry if you feel affended by that but its the truth. I would like to hear what your final bill is. Maybe MAF have made an error in your charge? Maybe they charge less if the client pays them direct? Is the zone fee included?

You then use the word extortion for extra charges because you had a bad access. How is this the romoval companies fault? Surely you cant expect them to swallow the additional handling and transport costs associated with this? The reason payment up front is required for any additional fees is that once the goods are delivered what comeback do the removal companies have? Nothing and beleive me this happens, the cheque is in the post, yeah right

[Smiler]

Lets not forget - they often hold people to ransom to screw this money out people; refusing to let people have thier lifes posessions back till its paid. Its legal extortion and people do need to know about it.

Edited to add: Lets also not forget that we spend £Thousands to ship our goods over and the ONLY thing that is excluded is the MAF fee itself. NOT the maf fee + whatever the NZ subcontractor feels like adding on to cover thier fees - they have already been paid that out of the £thousands we have already spent. If they feel thast enough - they have to take that up with the UK company - not steal it out of our back pockets.

As one of the people that was held to ransom, I'm with Yoda up there. People should be aware that this is a scam, no two ways about it. :mad:

There are people on this forum that are quick to praise (for anything, me included) why should we not be allowed to criticise or warn others.

[Havana]

Avalon,

Do you really think that they would tape to cartons together to gain an advantage? I would think in this case it is down to the way USA removal companies work. Believe me, they are the absolute worst in the world as far as inventory and packing are concerned. You always know there are going to be "issues" with a USA container.

As I said above the reason payment is asked up front is so they make sure they get it. I doubt you find a removal company that would do it any different, to many have been stung in the past. Everyone is nice and cherry on here but unfortunatly there are plenty out there who arent.

[Havana]

Smiler,

As I have said I agree there is a problem but I think you find in some cases a lot of the additional fees are warranted.

The thing is if all the UK companies added NZ$350-400 to their quotes to cover MAF inspections you would pay and be none the wiser you were getting ripped off!

MAF are currently changing the price structure and I believe within a couple of years all shipments will have to be inspected via store. This is what happens in Australia and inspections are compulsory for all shipments so it is a little easier to control and have set fees. Removals are the only industry that MAF allow inspections to be done at non approved sites and this is rather bizarre really especially when you hear some stories about goods being left not inspected overnight or even for days.

[Smiler]

Jo,

Yes I am involved in the shipping industry and all I am trying to do is give a little balance here, is that a crime? although I dont know why I waste my time. I have said many times that I believe in a fair deal and that there are companies out there over charging. I know what MAF charge and what you are being charged for that amount of items is not correct. I am sorry if you feel affended by that but its the truth. I would like to hear what your final bill is. Maybe MAF have made an error in your charge? Maybe they charge less if the client pays them direct? Is the zone fee included?

You then use the word extortion for extra charges because you had a bad access. How is this the romoval companies fault? Surely you cant expect them to swallow the additional handling and transport costs associated with this? The reason payment up front is required for any additional fees is that once the goods are delivered what comeback do the removal companies have? Nothing and beleive me this happens, the cheque is in the post, yeah right

Havana

If you are in the industry maybe you could enlighten us what the removal co's possibly do to justify a massive % increase in the MAF fees some of us have HAD to pay, charged by the shipping co
.

[Havana]

Smiler,

I cant really can I? Every import is different and has different charges with it. They only way you could be sure would be to have all the inside knowledge from all parties involved. All I can say is there are some companies out there charging fair and reasonable fees. Maybe if MAF took a little more responsibilty and collected there own charges it would be better. It is their choice to make the removal companies collect fees. I can say for a normal inspection of a 20ft container in a metro area that 350-400 is over the top. But then what is normal? It depends if it is inspected at residence or store or if help is required in unpacking/repacking. Like I say every job is different and you also get a lot of inconsistant procedures between different MAF officers.

I would advise people to inquire what their fees are going to be as far in advance as possible to give them time to query if the feel the need to. This in itself can be a problem though as sometimes it is not known until the last minute.

The ones to be very weary of are when they advise what the charges are before anything has even happened with the clearances. I believe some companies ask for a flat rate on all shipments and you can bet that some of these are eventually not even inspected. Remember not all shipments are inspected and it still happens that some full containers dont have an inspection on them.

[Avalon]

Avalon,

Do you really think that they would tape to cartons together to gain an advantage? I would think in this case it is down to the way USA removal companies work. Believe me, they are the absolute worst in the world as far as inventory and packing are concerned. You always know there are going to be "issues" with a USA container.

As I said above the reason payment is asked up front is so they make sure they get it. I doubt you find a removal company that would do it any different, to many have been stung in the past. Everyone is nice and cherry on here but unfortunatly there are plenty out there who arent.

Firstly - ive no idea why anyone with half a brain would tape two carton together to pack a large item and then claim it was two separate packages. Maybe they truly are just stupid, but I think its right to question your removal company if its staff are doing things like that. This is after all your entire worldly goods thay are being "trusted" with.

And agin - without wishing to labour the point - the NZ contractors are (in most cases at least - cant swaer to all) PAID UP FRONT. Certainly in my contract I paid for Door To Door delivery. Thats it. Theres nothing in the contract I signed that allows me to be charged extra for anything other than the MAF fee itself.

[jo-and-jeff]

You then use the word extortion for extra charges because you had a bad access. How is this the romoval companies fault? Surely you cant expect them to swallow the additional handling and transport costs associated with this?
If you had read my original post carefully, you would have noticed that I pointed out that we paid an additional $450.00 for the "long carry" because of restricted access to our new residence, and that I admitted that I don't have any idea whether this is a reasonable amount (although with petrol costs for 2 extra truck trips and the labor required to unpack a 40-ft shipping container and repack it onto 3 smaller trucks, I am prepared to accept that it is).

The $518.00 Allied Pickford's charged us was above and beyond that $450.00 amount, and was labeled solely for the 60-minute "MAF inspection", which included a few employees helping the Inspector unwrap the items to be inspected and rewrapping them when he was done (note that the unloading and subsequent loading of these items onto the smaller trucks by those staff is already covered under the $450.00 fee.) Being generous, these staff spent slightly more than an hour, up to 90 minutes doing so, and this charge would have been more than $50.00 -- even $75.00 -- an hour per person for that service, based on the difference between the $518.00 that Allied charged versus the $136.69 that MAF actually charged.

Oh, Please. Give me a reasonable justification for this outrageous overcharge. I'd just love to hear it.

:roll

[Avalon]

The thing is if all the UK companies added NZ$350-400 to their quotes to cover MAF inspections you would pay and be none the wiser you were getting ripped off!
.

Actually - this really covers my main beef with all this. We get quotes from companies before we arrange the shipping. At that point - its all laid what we pay for and what we dont. Its in black and white and we can make an INFORMED choice about which companies to use based on what we feel is important to us, and a fair price.

What the NZ companies do by adding to that - inspite of a fixed price contract being signed - is to take that Informed choice aware from us. Remember - they have our worldly goods sitting in thier stores. If we dont pay whatever they ask for - they keep them.

So yeah - maybe it would cost us more than it should - but it would be a clearly laid out fee, and we can make the decision based on that - not be held ransom once our goods arrive in NZ and we are trying to juggle the incredibly hard start to a new life.

At the end of the day - why should I have to find extra money here in NZ to cover the costs of the NZ subcontarctors. If they arent getting enough money from the UK shippers - then its up to them to take that up with those companies. If they cant - they need new contarct writers. It doesnt excuse thier behaviour and the fact that are scamming people.

[Smiler]

Smiler,

I cant really can I? Every import is different and has different charges with it. They only way you could be sure would be to have all the inside knowledge from all parties involved. All I can say is there are some companies out there charging fair and reasonable fees. Maybe if MAF took a little more responsibilty and collected there own charges it would be better. It is their choice to make the removal companies collect fees. I can say for a normal inspection of a 20ft container in a metro area that 350-400 is over the top. But then what is normal? It depends if it is inspected at residence or store or if help is required in unpacking/repacking. Like I say every job is different and you also get a lot of inconsistant procedures between different MAF officers.

I would advise people to inquire what their fees are going to be as far in advance as possible to give them time to query if the feel the need to. This in itself can be a problem though as sometimes it is not known until the last minute.

The ones to be very weary of are when they advise what the charges are before anything has even happened with the clearances. I believe some companies ask for a flat rate on all shipments and you can bet that some of these are eventually not even inspected. Remember not all shipments are inspected and it still happens that some full containers dont have an inspection on them.

Sorry I'll try and explain again.

How can you or anyone for that matter, justify the dufference in MAF saying that the cost of inspecting your goods, with little or no help from the shippers will be $XXX. Then getting a bill from the shippers for $XXX x 3.

The scam I am trying to point out here is that MAF state their charges and just for writing an invoice, the shippers add on a few hundred $$, sometimes more than a few hundred.

I'm not talking about long access charges, loading boxes etc, purely the MAF fees for example in Nienke's case, which is current.

[Nienke]

Yep, very current... Here's the numbers again:
inspection of boxes at our house costs 154,80 dollar (and got a receipt from MAF to prove it), Moving Company wants 290 dollars for it claiming it as MAF-charges.
Inspection of a car at a warehouse costs about 80 dollars according to MAF, Moving Company wants some 350 dollars for that.

A new development in our case is that my moving company in Holland is now getting involved, as they were pretty horrified at the scam, especially now that I can prove it with that MAF-receipt!

[Avalon]

Havana -

Hopefully you can now see that we really are not making this up to be mean to NZ shipping companies. I hope that you also take a moment to look for all the positive posts that people write about said companies (usually the ones that do not take part in this scam).

I was wondering - who did your shipping - could you perhaps post your own expereince of emigrating here? Especailly as you feel that positive stories on this topic are not posted.

Also, it has to be noted that the UK shipping companies are also aware of this scam, adn are happy to admit that it IS a scam. It is not just us migrants. They wont stop using companies such as NZVL because (according to John Masons at least) they get too much reciprocal business from Kiwis going the other way and contancting through NZVL to do so.

Please be assured - I know myself and smiler (while banging on endlessly about the scam sometimes it seems) have better things to do with our days that make this stuff up. I imagine the other posters who highlight thier exceedingly difficult experiences also have better things to do.

Until the scam stops and NZ companies stop trying to wring EXTRA money out of Migranst - we wont stop warning people and we wont stop advising people on the best way to deal with it. I do not apologise for that.

[Smiler]

Please be assured - I know myself and smiler (while banging on endlessly about the scam sometimes it seems) have better things to do with our days that make this stuff up. I imagine the other posters who highlight thier exceedingly difficult experiences also have better things to do.

Until the scam stops and NZ companies stop trying to wring EXTRA money out of Migranst - we wont stop warning people and we wont stop advising people on the best way to deal with it. I do not apologise for that.

Ain't that right. :D

[Nienke]

And I'll join you! :D

[Havana]

Wow, so many questions.

- Firstly - ive no idea why anyone with half a brain would tape two carton together to pack a large item and then claim it was two separate packages. Maybe they truly are just stupid, but I think its right to question your removal company if its staff are doing things like that. This is after all your entire worldly goods thay are being "trusted" with.

An easy reply to that is it came from the USA and anything is possible out of there and I totally agree about questioning them on that, no issues there.

And agin - without wishing to labour the point - the NZ contractors are (in most cases at least - cant swaer to all) PAID UP FRONT. Certainly in my contract I paid for Door To Door delivery. Thats it. Theres nothing in the contract I signed that allows me to be charged extra for anything other than the MAF fee itself.

That depends on what sort of relationship they have with each other. I would expect your quote to also have reference to normal access only & not above first or second floor delivery, difficult access, storage & store handling etc. All quotes should be based on "normal" access only and if any additional handling is required then charges will apply. This is more common on sole use containers as opposed to groupage because sole use will be priced to go direct from port to residence so if they have to be unloaded via store you will have the additional handling and vehicle use to then get the goods to residence. This is not just a NZ thing and is common in all Countries.

If you had read my original post carefully, you would have noticed that I pointed out that we paid an additional $450.00 for the "long carry" because of restricted access to our new residence, and that I admitted that I don't have any idea whether this is a reasonable amount (although with petrol costs for 2 extra truck trips and the labor required to unpack a 40-ft shipping container and repack it onto 3 smaller trucks, I am prepared to accept that it is).

I did read you posts but you did mention "long carry" and "extortion" in the same paragraph in a later post. Once again, apologies if I offended you, that was not my intention. Although not knowing your volume if you had a 40ft container I think $450 would be a reasonable charge.

The $518.00 Allied Pickford's charged us was above and beyond that $450.00 amount, and was labeled solely for the 60-minute "MAF inspection", which included a few employees helping the Inspector unwrap the items to be inspected and rewrapping them when he was done (note that the unloading and subsequent loading of these items onto the smaller trucks by those staff is already covered under the $450.00 fee.) Being generous, these staff spent slightly more than an hour, up to 90 minutes doing so, and this charge would have been more than $50.00 -- even $75.00 -- an hour per person for that service, based on the difference between the $518.00 that Allied charged versus the $136.69 that MAF actually charged.

Oh, Please. Give me a reasonable justification for this outrageous overcharge. I'd just love to hear it.

I still suspect the charge from MAF could be higher. Did you ask them if that included the zone fee? Quite often that is invoiced seperatly. You could also ask for a breakdown of how the $518 is made up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Havana
The thing is if all the UK companies added NZ$350-400 to their quotes to cover MAF inspections you would pay and be none the wiser you were getting ripped off!
.



Actually - this really covers my main beef with all this. We get quotes from companies before we arrange the shipping. At that point - its all laid what we pay for and what we dont. Its in black and white and we can make an INFORMED choice about which companies to use based on what we feel is important to us, and a fair price.

So you would be happy to pay the $350-400 even if it was not an actual cost? Would that not be a bigger scam? Once again I am not trying to excuse the fact that some companies are overcharging but I thing you will agree it is mainly the same two that keep coming up so I dont think it is fair to lump all of them together. I would take a guess and say that there are three reasons why. 1) Simple, they can get away with it. 2) the contract rates they have with their overseas partners havent increased for a long time but MAF fees/compliance costs have. 3) They give out cheap destination rates to their partners to get the imports then try collect as much as possible from MAF fees to balance it out.

Sorry I'll try and explain again.

How can you or anyone for that matter, justify the dufference in MAF saying that the cost of inspecting your goods, with little or no help from the shippers will be $XXX. Then getting a bill from the shippers for $XXX x 3.

The scam I am trying to point out here is that MAF state their charges and just for writing an invoice, the shippers add on a few hundred $$, sometimes more than a few hundred.

I'm not talking about long access charges, loading boxes etc, purely the MAF fees for example in Nienke's case, which is current.

Hope most of that is covered somewhere above?

Yep, very current... Here's the numbers again:
inspection of boxes at our house costs 154,80 dollar (and got a receipt from MAF to prove it), Moving Company wants 290 dollars for it claiming it as MAF-charges.
Inspection of a car at a warehouse costs about 80 dollars according to MAF, Moving Company wants some 350 dollars for that.

Do you know if the 154.80 includes the zone fee? 80 for a car sounds a bit light but I would agree that what you being asked to pay is excessive although it is hard to comment when you dont know the full details. For example the vehicle may have failed its first inspection and required a second?

Look, I know there are a lot of issues with MAF fees and I also know there are a lot of positive posts on removal companies as well. I am happy to try and answer questions regarding any issue but I am sure you can understand it is difficult with each company having there own rules and charges and not having all the information on individual cases. I still believe one of the main problems with the MAF lies with MAF itself. If they were more proactive in collecting their own fees it would not be a problem. This is unlikely to change in the future however so I suspect, Avalon & Smiler, you will have to be banging on forever! In fact it is possible that all shipments will have to be inspected via store in the near future.
I cannot really comment on my own moving experiance as being involved in the industry somewhat negates that.
My advice would be if you have issues with anything this end go back to your origin company and inform them, after all they are the ones you have the contract with.

[Avalon]

An easy reply to that is it came from the USA and anything is possible out of there and I totally agree about questioning them on that, no issues there.

So - let me get this straight. You accuse us, wrongly, of slagging off all nz shippers for being part of a scam, and you have a problem with that. But you seem quite happy to be just as "one sided" about US shippers. Yeah - thats fair and equitable all right.

Once again I am not trying to excuse the fact that some companies are overcharging

:confused: You have spent the past few days justifying it! You have tried to excuse it.


but I thing you will agree it is mainly the same two that keep coming up so I dont think it is fair to lump all of them together.

Yes - ive never said it wasnt. YOU are the one who keeps accusing us all (wrongly) of saying this applies to all NZ shippers. I have never said that, Smiler has never said that. In fact I doubt ANYONE has ever said that on here. Often we only speak about our PERSONAL experiences. If you bother to look at this properly - you will se that I personally have , more than once, recommended shipping companies that I know do not scam migrants.


I would take a guess and say that there are three reasons why. 1) Simple, they can get away with it. 2) the contract rates they have with their overseas partners havent increased for a long time but MAF fees/compliance costs have. 3) They give out cheap destination rates to their partners to get the imports then try collect as much as possible from MAF fees to balance it out.

So, on the one hand - there is no scam and we are all being unfair, and now you say they are doing it because they can get away with it????? MAke up your mind please. You have accused us of being unfair to the industry, but at the end of the day - you KNOW fees are being added, and you seem to know the reasons behind it. You know that they are probably quoteing cheap and trying to get extra out of us. You know that and yet you still try and justify extra fees????? :mad:

I couldnt care less if the fees are increasing - its up to the NZ company to write thier contracts properly. If they cant be bothered to do that - they deserve to lose money. The migranst does not deserve to be held hostage.

I am happy to try and answer questions regarding any issue .
However - you are not helping - you are accusing those who are complaining of not being fair. You are condoning migrants being made to pay for the incompetance or greed of the NZ shipping companies contract writers, and you are saying that it is all fine and dandy for us to be charged twice.



I still believe one of the main problems with the MAF lies with MAF itself. If they were more proactive in collecting their own fees it would not be a problem.

And yet - MAF are the only ones (other than sites like this) helping migranst through this nightmare. If you or your company has a problem - refuse to collect the fees. But then- if the shippers did that - there would be no way to cream off extra fees would there?

I cannot really comment on my own moving experiance as being involved in the industry somewhat negates that.

I dont see why. You want to give a favorable vview (cos apparently there arent any on here) - so why not give your story. Being in the industry wont change the fact that you had to go through pretty much the same process as the rest of us.


My advice would be if you have issues with anything this end go back to your origin company and inform them, after all they are the ones you have the contract with.

Thats about the only thing you have said that I agree with - but then Ive said that before.

I know my posts seem angry - but then I AM angry. I am exceedingly annoyed that you have seen fit to claim this site is one sided, and your attemps to justify the extra fees are ludicrous and insulting. You seem to have no conception of the damage and heartache this has caused to people, and you seem to have no conception of the many positive posts that people make about thier shippers.

This site provides untold help to many would be and current migrants. Because of our experience - we can and do help people who are in the process of being scammed by some people in your industry. We are also able to direct people to those agents who do not see the need to take part.

This forum does not deserve to EVER be labled one sided. Its just patently not true.

[Nienke]

Yes, it was including the zone fee, and no, the car did not fail the inspection. And even then, it would be 160 dollars, still way below what the movers want.
154.80 dollars + 80 dollars = 234.80 dollars. Not 650 dollars as the Moving Company wants me to pay (up front even, without knowing what the charges would be, which I flatly refused).
The MAF-lady at my house called it fraude, and the MAF is fully aware of what is happening but say they can't do anything about it.
Mind you, the Moving Company even tried to forbid the MAF of telling customers the real charges! Now why would they do that if they were being honest?

[Nienke]

I've tried to add this to my previous post but got an error. And I see that Avalon already mentioned this, but here it goes:

If NZ moving companies have problems with the contract with their counterparts, then that is their problem and not mine. They should renegotiate in stead of ripping of innocent customers.

And let me add: it is thanks to this forum that I was warned of this scam and I could do something about it. Without it I would have been none the wiser.

[Havana]

Avalon,

Take a chill pill.

I have seen on here where all NZ companies get lumped together under the MAF scam posts, maybe that is not the intention but from an outsider reading them I think that is the impression they would sometimes get.

How many containers from the USA have you handled Avalon? I would not think to many. It is a well known fact in the removal industry that USA containers and companies are the worst to deal with. I am not trying to be smart, that is just the way it is. I could go into detail but I am sure you would get bored very quickly.

Where have I ever justifyed the blantant over charging? All I have tried to do is give you an idea of where the charges may have come from. I have agreed in some cases where people are paying to much.

I have also never said there was not a scam going on in some instances. My three points I made were made because I was asked why I thought it was happening. Those are my thoughts, if you dont like it its hardly my fault. I do not know that those reasons are 100% correct but I believe they go along way to explain it.

How are you paying twice for MAF fees? I still cannot quite understand that you would be happy to pay a set fee up front yet it might not be required so you would still be getting overcharged but not even know it. Do you not think the NZ companies would prefer this as well? Then they would be collecting of every import instead.

Removal companies cannot refuse to collect the charges because they are billed directly by MAF and would expect to be paid. Why are you having a go at me about creaming off extra fees when I suggested MAF should take more interest? The system will probably not change unless MAF try and set fees for charging to importers but I cannot see how they could inforce that.

I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully re the one sided comment. On a whole I dont think the site is however I believe that in some instances with regards to MAF fees and extra charges you do not hear the full story and using the term one sided was more to do with the fact that you dont here the removal company side. There is always two sides.

The company I work for is very rarely mentioned on here which I quess is a good and bad thing. I do know for a fact the information posted on here is not always factual and there is very little you can do about it once it is out there.

It was not my intention to inflame the situation further with you so I will refrain from posting anymore.

[Avalon]

Take a chill pill.


That is out of order and offensive. :mad:

It is a well known fact in the removal industry that USA containers and companies are the worst to deal with.
Its also a well known fact that some shippers are scamming migrants.

Where have I ever justifyed the blantant over charging?

Hmmm - let me think about that :confused: This thread would be a good place to start.


I have also never said there was not a scam going on in some instances.

Problem is you dont accept that these add on charges are unfair and unjustified. You think that the shipping companies are right to charge. You just do not accept that THAT is a scam.you have said so quite clearly.

How are you paying twice for MAF fees?
:roll Oh for cryin out loud. I will try once more to explain. :)

We pay the UK (for eg) shippers a fixed fee on a contact.
We pay a MAF fee.
We may also get charged "extra" fees determined by the NZ company for whatever they feel like (often climed as MAF fees which is a lie).
That Extra is what some people are being charged twice for.
Why?
BECAUSE ITS COVERED IN THE ORIGINAL FEE.


I still cannot quite understand that you would be happy to pay a set fee up front yet it might not be required so you would still be getting overcharged but not even know it.

Transparent charging.
No hidden fees.
No migranst being held to ransom.

I may not need insurance - but im happy to pay it.

Do you not think the NZ companies would prefer this as well? Then they would be collecting of every import instead.
Then why dont they do it????

with regards to MAF fees and extra charges you do not hear the full story and using the term one sided was more to do with the fact that you dont here the removal company side.
But you have heard the heartache and stress caused by this, and yet you have tried to show that it is justified. despite being told what was charged for in advance, and despite being shown numbers that clearly show something is going on. the cases quoted on this thread lay it all out - and yet you have tried very hard to to claim that its ok, because we just dont understand all the extra money that the poor shippers have to pay out.

And in some cases - we do in fact hear the shippers sides - becasue people quote from letters and emails - and when they do come up - it just adds to the arrogrance of the industry.

Lets be clear about this - if the industry as a whole thinks that threads like this are unjustified then it up to YOU to change that. Not us.

The company I work for is very rarely mentioned on here which I quess is a good and bad thing. I do know for a fact the information posted on here is not always factual and there is very little you can do about it once it is out there.

Yep - we cant always be accurate - but then you arent exactly giving out useful info either. You have been ignoring the facts that Jo and Nienke have laid out. That has presented a problem. It may have helpoed if you have been up-front that you worked in the industry. It may have helped if you were prepared to tell your own story. It may have helped if you would say who you worked for and whether or not that company adds on charges or not. you havent done that - and it does make a difference for me at least.

[Havana]

This hole is getting deeper and we seem to be going over the same thing.

How could you find "take a chill pill" offensive? I was only referring to chill out a little and not to get so worked up. It is a great Kiwi saying. Maybe "take it easy" would be a better option.

Still cant see where I justifyed the overcharging, just trying to point out there maybe reasons behind it.

Once again where have I said there is not a scam?

You dont pay a MAF inspection/treatment fee in the UK. What you pay for is the MAF admin side for paperwork clearance.

Not quite sure how you can compare it to insurance. So what you are saying is you would be quite willing to pay for a MAF inspection fee in the UK even if you dont have an inspection done? I would think that is a worse scam is it not?

I havent ignored the facts, I have tried to put some options out there to see if there could be reason for the charges, does not mean I dont believe the posters. How many times to I have to say I know there is a problem out there?

I dont really have a story to tell Avalon. I sent a container from the UK to NZ but was working in the industry at both ends so you could hardly call it a normal move could you.

I hardly think it would be fair for me to state who I work for. Yes we do add on charges as everyone does to cover costs but we obviously do it fairly because of the lack times our name is in here. We also dont have a problem with clients paying MAF direct if they want to.

I would be quite happy to discuss with you on a personal level or even over a beer but I sure you can appreciate why I cannot put my company name up.

I realise now this is your pet hate subject but you must appreciate I have not read all your posts on it.

[Avalon]

I would be quite happy to discuss with you on a personal level or even over a beer but I sure you can appreciate why I cannot put my company name up.

I realise now this is your pet hate subject but you must appreciate I have not read all your posts on it.
Thank you for the offer :)

This is not my "pet subject" - I however felt it was important to defend both this forum, and the people hurt by these additional charges. I can even understand your need to likewise defend your industry. I feel however that you are wrong to do so. I alos feel that you probably do have a story that would be worth listening too, and i feel that It may be easier for us to understand the process for your point of view if you did that. Its a shame you dont feel its worth doing that.

Given that you only seem to want to post on shipping threads - it may well be worth trawling through the historic posts on this subject. That way you will see balance, as well as other tales of heartache and stress.

[Havana]

Hi Avalon

I still really dont see myself as defending the industry, more like just trying to explain how the system works. Obviously I cannot speak for all NZ companies but I suspect the main ones all have a fairly similer system and maybe if more information was given out at origin on how the charges work it would be better. It is quite amazing the incorrect information that is given out at origin in some cases about importing into NZ, for example about Alcohol & caneware.

Basically, included in what you prepay at origin should be the paperwork clearance of MAFonly. So in most cases if there is no inspection required then no further charges. If an inspection is required then all associated fees are passed onto the importer such as the actual MAF costs and any handling/unpacking/repacking/invoicing/admin costs. There can also be cleaning/treatment fees and reinspection. Now if you feel that is incorrect that is fine with me but all I am saying is that is how it works, dont shoot me for it.

Once again I am not condoning what some companies are charging and I have heard stories that are frankly a disgrace, particularly where importers have been charged 300-400 and have not even had an inspection done.

It would certainly be easier for everyone involved if NZ goes down the Australian route and had a compulsory inspection on all shipments however I cannot really see that happening as MAF would have to up source quite a bit. MAF do however keep bringing up the possibility of all shipments in the future having to be inspected via store. Maybe if/when this happens a more streamlined process of fees will apply.

I admire your passion for this subject and the forum and it was never my intention to offend you or anyone else.

[bevsere]

I have heard stories that are frankly a disgrace, particularly where importers have been charged 300-400 and have not even had an inspection done.



Yup. Well that was us, until we got wise and demanded a refund.

[Nienke]

Did you get the refund?

This weekend I send a cheque to the Moving Company with a letter stating exactly why they are only getting 234.80 dollars and not 650. Told them to clear my account and to not send any "friendly reminders your account is overdue" ever again. Hope this closes my case, cause I'm fed up with it!

[Ria]

Hello,

Hope you don't mind me asking a question - but would it be a good idea to contact the NZ deliverers, once you schedule your move - to try and get something in writing about what to expect - ie if MAF want to see up to 5 boxes its $xx and if its 5 boxes+ = $xxx and so on - then you could liaise with the UK side and question what they say, if its vague or overpriced.

We've just scheduled our move to Wellington with John Masons and they use the Moving Company - would anyone have a name and tel no. for that branch?

I always think forewarned is forearmed - and if they already know you've flagged up this as a point of concern, they may not try and overcharge you - just charge what is 'reasonable'.

Just on a different point and I know you may be getting a lot of flak Havana - but I was looking through a shippers brochure about other 'services' they could provide and one of which was advising of income tax rebates for those leaving during a tax year. They stated they would take 9% of any rebate obtained if you used their 'service' . Now this is the easiest thing in the world to do. You can either download a form from the inland revenue website and just send off with your P45 or you can ring the IR and they will send the form to you! All I'm saying is shippers are the same as any other industry, if there is an angle to get income for selling a service without doing much - most companies will do it and most people know they are paying for the privilege - now it's just a question of how much. If you charge probably no more than $50 + disbursements - most fair-minded people would accept that as a small charge - but when some instances scream of 'rip-off' it obviously makes people very irate and indignant that they have been treated in such a shameful way. And as ever the minority then spoil it for the others - and maybe we then become suspiscious of all shipping companies.

The point Avalon (I think) was making about paying upfront and being transparent - is that - yes some people will pay something for 'nothing' if they are not inspected but everyone pays just a little - which means nobody will mind and they know in advance what that charge is and they cannot be held to ransom - which is not how a 'decent' organisation should want to treat it's customers.

A little analogy (and don't all laugh) but if you take Argos say, how many items do you think they accept as returns that they needn't but it is within the 16 day guarantee - but how much business do they command because you know that you can return it no matter what. I know it's not a great example but all I'm saying is, for the sake of a few hundred dollars on certain shipments - how much untold damage does it do to your industry as a whole - incalculable - so maybe the answer is that the 'nice guys' like you seem to imply your company is - should talk to the not so nice guys and make them toe an 'industry line' - then there won't be so many 'horror stories' that reflect unfairly maybe on you all. Just a suggestion...

Anyway, I for one have seen both good and bad posted on this forum about ALL topics - be they 'whether NZ is what you hoped for', 'is it the land of milk and honey' or 'shippers'- everyones take on everything is different but people on this forum call it as they see it / or the experience they have had - they share their knowledge/insights/problems/advice so that others can maybe avoid those problems or at least be armed with more information. Knowledge is a wonderful and dangerous thing - but long may we all be able to freely express our opinions - from all sides of the fence :D Funny thing that fence though - I've always wondered how come it has so many sides - but then I suppose that's all part of life's rich tapestry.

Thanks for listening

Ria

[Smiler]

Just a quickie Ria as I'm running off out

Here's the number you need at the bottom of the page http://www.themovingcompany.co.nz/

Will digest the rest of your post later thanks.

[Ria]

Thanks Smiler, very kind.

Hopefully my post won't give you indigestion :D have a good day.

Ria

[Havana]

Hi Ria

I would say that is a very good idea although it probably wont stop certain companies advising you of their "set rates". If they are honest with you they should be able to give you an idea once your paperwork has passed through MAF and they know where your delivery is to. However the price structure currently being used by charging per item inspected could be about to change to an hourly rate for time taken. This will make it more difficult to give a pre determined price.

With regards to the income tax query, like any business offering any service they arent going to do it for nothing. At least you know up front what they will take and can make your decision on that. I would quess that the salesperson would receive a commision on income tax sold as well.

I agree with charging a fair charge for the inspections and this is what I believe my company to do. I have never defended any of the unwarranted high charges, just tried to point out some reasons as to why the charges could be high. It stands out when a company who is not usually mentioned as a high charger appears on here as doing so and makes you think there maybe other reasons behind it.

The problem as an industry on trying to set a pre determined amount for MAF inspection that you pay at origin is that there are to many variables. Unless NZ becomes like Australia where all shipments are inspected I cannot see that happening. You would have to try a get a collective agreement on set fees and I could not see that ever happening either.

At the end of the day it is up to each individual company to set their own charges and unfortunatly there is a lot of scope to overcharge and get away with it. I have put some reasons up to why I think some companies overcharge and I would say that will continue as long as they can get away with it. I do not agree with it personally but in a very competitive industry I dont think being told by other companies how to run their business and set charges would go down to well! Believe me, there is a lot of hate out there.

I think it is great to have a site like this to express your opinions as well but I also think you need to sometimes be a bit careful what is said and what to believe in certain situations. I have seen first hand where things have been written about a company which are absolute garbage and once its out there you cant do much about it.

Hope your move goes well Ria and you enjoy NZ for what it is.

[jo-and-jeff]

An update on our situation:

Last week, the representative from Allied Pickford's called to say that the artificial trees which MAF had wanted to fumigate were waiting to be delivered, and she asked if I wanted to put the ~$227 on my VISA card so that they could be delivered. I explained to her that I was extremely unhappy about the overcharge by Pickford's on the MAF fees and she acted as though she had no idea to what I was referring (amusing, since she had been the recipient of a rather detailed e-mail from me at the beginning of August which quite explicitly described the disparity between the amount which MAF charged them and the amount which they charged me). I rather acidly reiterated the situation for her, and she said she'd have to talk to the people in Administration. 10 minutes later she called back and asked if I would be home for the next half hour so the items could be delivered. Not one more word was ever said about the $227 (which was no doubt much higher than the fee which they were actually charged by MAF, anyway).

In the end, we probably still paid them more than that to which they were entitled, but I am just relieved to be done with them without having to shell out any more of our money to these scam artists.

Jo

[Nienke]

Update on our situation:
We are still in a battle with the Moving Company. They keep coming back with more nonsense reasons to why they are charging what they are charging, and they just won't let go no matter what we say or do.
They did lower the charge with 220 dollars, and as we are so sick of it we will pay now. But we are going to be in contact with the moving company in The Netherlands and demand a refund there.

Here's some of their reasons for overcharging:

there is a significant amount of work done by our import co-ordinator to have your shipment processed from completing and submitting the BACC redirection, securing appointments, raising internal documentation, obtaining final clearances etc.
We have to put all our staff through a MAF accreditation course so they can do container inspections at residence where they have to undergo retraining every 2 years.
We have also just had to install a mechanical hoist under instruction from MAF at significant cost so they can inspect underneath vehicles.

[Avalon]

Here's some of their reasons for overcharging:

there is a significant amount of work done by our import co-ordinator to have your shipment processed from completing and submitting the BACC redirection, securing appointments, raising internal documentation, obtaining final clearances etc.
We have to put all our staff through a MAF accreditation course so they can do container inspections at residence where they have to undergo retraining every 2 years.
We have also just had to install a mechanical hoist under instruction from MAF at significant cost so they can inspect underneath vehicles.
Just a thought - but you could ask if they also want you to pay for the loo roll thier staff used on the day they handled your shipment - or if they would like you to pay for the biscuits they ate that day :nice1

Still utterly ridiculous.

[jess]

Just a thought - but you could ask if they also want you to pay for the loo roll thier staff used on the day they handled your shipment.

Oh yes! :laugh :laugh :laugh

[Avalon]

Even better - write them a cheque for $220.50 explaining that they seem to forgotten to charge you for the loo roll used that day, so you thought you had better send it anyway :laugh

[Nienke]

:laugh If it wouldn't cost me 220 to do that I would! :laugh

We did let them know though that we think all this is just inclusive of the kind of business they are in, and that we will be taking it up with our moving company in Holland and will demand a refund.

Oh, this whole thing has just made me furious!

[jonSE]

Any boxes markd miscellaneous will get inspected. ask me how I know.

Having learnt this lesson on our UK-NZ move, our inventory for our NZ-OZ move had entries up to four lines long for some boxes

[sidabrine]

baaah.. I love this forum, I find all the answers to all my questions, apparently a lot of migrants are going through the same kind of trials and tribulations... :)

Just spent some 30min on the phone with the Moving Company. Yep, our shipment is here, they want a $213 flat fee for MAF inspections. Our shipment is tiny 3cu m and it contains books, a futon bed and some clothes.

We just happened to receive another shipment through Allied Pickfords a month ago and they charged us (maybe inflated fees, but) according to the amount of items that had to be inspected by MAF.

So I call the Moving Company and ask for a break down of the charges. No, not possible, because they don't know how much the MAF will charge. If we pay the flat fee and the MAF doesn't check anything, will they refund it for us? No, because "there is a significant amount of work done by our import co-ordinator..." (see Nienke's post). So does it mean that their charges vary depending on their luck with MAF? No MAF inspection, all the flat fee goes to the Moving Company? Yes. When MAF completes the inspection, can we see how much they're charging for inspecting our shipment and how much the Moving Company is getting? No, there are other people on the list and this information is confidential.

BS!!! If you ask me. Doesn't make sense to me.

I guess our situation is different because we don't have a whole container, so we can't demand MAF inspection to be done at our home (is that so, btw? does anyone have experience of shipping part of a container and doing MAF inspection at home?)

Anyway, I explained the situation to my employer (who's picking the bill, thank goodness!!) and they'll try to question that as well (although I suspect that at the end they'll just pay it up...) :uhoh

[Avalon]

So I call the Moving Company and ask for a break down of the charges. No, not possible, because they don't know how much the MAF will charge. If we pay the flat fee and the MAF doesn't check anything, will they refund it for us? No, because "there is a significant amount of work done by our import co-ordinator..." (see Nienke's post). So does it mean that their charges vary depending on their luck with MAF? No MAF inspection, all the flat fee goes to the Moving Company? Yes. When MAF completes the inspection, can we see how much they're charging for inspecting our shipment and how much the Moving Company is getting? No, there are other people on the list and this information is confidential.
:uhoh
You gotta love the way the excuses change every time Though :D

Good luck with this!

[Smiler]

You gotta love the way the excuses change every time Though :D

Good luck with this!

Do you think they have multiple choices answers. Oh well we used answer A yesterday so today will be B. That kinda thing?

Sidabrine - why don't you call MAF 1st thing and ask if they can do the inspection at home, just not mentioning the all important work done by the import co-ordinator and ask them what they would want to check in your shipment? Worth a phone call to see what they say?

Anyways, I thought the oh so important work done by said co-ordinator was included in your door to door shipping fee and it was ONLY MAF charges you should now pay for. Might be a good idea to read your contract or tell your UK shipper you have already paid and get them to sort it.

The was someone on the forum who did that successfully but sorry, I forget who that was.