[Hannah]

When you are issued an 'indefinite RRV' does it mean in practice you can leave New Zealand and not return for many many years or is there some clause somewhere that states you still have to meet some kind of 'residency qualification' conditions (e.g. spending certain amount of time in NZ per year)? E.g. if we (2 adults, 2 kids) returned to UK with an indefinite RRV could my 10 year old son (NB. not the primary applicant!) decide to move to NZ when he's 30 and be seen as a resident.


Cheers, hannah

[Avalon]

No - you have to get (edited to say :o )Citizenship if you want to do that.

Also, your RRV only lasts a certain amount of time anyway (2yrs?) and then you have to re-apply.

[foolsgold99]

Avalon, think you have misread the question, implication is that she has residency, is issued an 'indefinite RRV' (the kind you get after 2 years, not time limited doesn't expire), in theory this allows you to leave and come back after an indefinite period of time. I think Hannah is asking if there is a catch that will stop her doing this.

The answer is I don't know, but there might. I do know that when you get indefinete leave to remain in the UK, it gets voided if you leave the country for more than 5 years (not a lot of people know that), NZ may have a law that does the same, but I don't know.

[Avalon]

Oops- meant to type Citizenship! Honestly my inability to type correctly worries me some days!

also - checked my Visa for the RRV, and its only valid till 3.11.06 ( 2years from when it was issued). This is after our residence permit was made unconditional.

[Avalon]

Fron the NZIS website:

Were you granted residence after 30 October 1995?

Your first Returning Resident’s Visa is issued to you at the time you are issued your residence visa or permit. It is valid for two years from the date the first residence permit is granted.

After your first Returning Resident’s Visa expires you must apply for a second Returning Resident’s Visa. Your second or subsequent visa may be valid indefinitely (enabling multiple trips in and out of New Zealand indefinitely) or may be valid for 12 months or 14 days. An indefinite visa is granted provided you were the principal applicant in the original residence application, or you are included in the RRV application lodged by the original principal applicant, and you are able to meet the requirements that show commitment to New Zealand, e.g. spent most of your time in New Zealand. If you are unable to meet those requirements you may be eligible for a 12 month or 14 day Returning Resident’s Visa.

Also, from the guide to RRV's:

First time Returning Resident ’s Visas

Your fi rst Returning Resident ’s Visa will be current for
two years from the date of your fi rst Residence Permit,
unless you lodged your application for residence under
the Investor Category on or after 4 July 2005,in which
case your Returning Resident ’s Visa will be current for
fi ve years.It will be issued free of charge when you are
granted your residence permit.

Second or Subsequent Returning Resident ’s Visas

Eligibility for an ‘Inde fi nite ’ or ‘12-month ’ RRV
is generally dependent on the circumstances of
the principal applicant of the original residence
application.i.e.if “you ”,the principal applicant,
qualify for an RRV then your family members
included in the original residence application will also
qualify for an RRV of the same currency.

Which then also says what you need to do to prove that you have made a commitment to NZ in order to be granted the Indefinate Status - which basicall comes down to do you actually live and work in NZ for most of the year.

What I cant find is anywhere where it definatively states that You cannot leave for a long period once the RRV becomes indefinite. However - the way It was explained to me was that the "Indefinite" means the visa doesnt run out - not that you can stay out of the country indefiantley and then come back in 20 odd years later.

My feeling is that if you want to do that - you have to ask the question directly of NZIS and get the answer in writing. I wouldnt risk it.

HTH

[Wannaway]

As I understand it, the indefinite RRV does allow you to come and go from NZ as often and for as long as you want. I think in theory this means it does not impinge on you wantinig to leave NZ for, say, three years and come back later, however I can see you might come across two practical problems subsequently;

1. If you need to renew your passport (for country of original residence) whilst you are out of NZ, you will need to get new stickers in the new passport. If you have been away from NZ for a long time, I guess technically you are still entitled to the PR/RRV stickers, but NZIS may question your commitment to the country and in practice may cut up rough about simply transferring stickers to your new passport.

2. If you leave NZ for say 5 years and then come back and apply for citizenship, you may have to wait longer to achieve that. Again I could see NZIS questioning commitment to the country if you have the PR/indefinite RRV but you have been absent for a long time.

I would imagine you may get dispensation for special circumstances (eg forced transfer out of country due to work, return to home country for good family/personal reasons).

[foolsgold99]

I guess the answer is no one knows for sure.

Better to get citizenship

[mossum]

yes you need to get citizenship ASAP !!!!!!!!

This is what happened to me - emigrated to NZ as a child 1973 - several trips back & forth thus RRV's left right & center . last left NZ in 1996 as hubby from UK & we lived here . Now going through all the hassle of having to re apply for PR again (plus expence etc ) & to top it all off adult family is the last on the list of priority .

wish i'd been bothered to actually get citizenship in NZ - but wise in hindsight is my forte !!!

HTH

vic

[Lukas]

Mossum ...you don't specify if you have had an "indefinite RRV" in you passport or not. I guess not...since the 80-s many things had change
...An "indefiinite RRV" ...means "indefinite"...no limits of time...so you can be out 20 years, then come back as a permanent resident, unless they will change something in the legislation...when your passport expire the indeffintite RRV is transferable to the new one... it is written very clear on the visa.
There are several NZ citizens traveling on foreign passports with indeffintie RRV on them, also there are NZ born people without NZ citizenship Germans, Duch or Japanese citizens will automatically lose their native citizenship if they would aplly for NZ citizenship...a lot to lose...not much to gain ,unless you are planning to become a politician in NZ.

[Lukas]

And something else...Unelss you are planning to live in New Zealand...You don't need to apply for citizenship...On the citizenship application form you have to decalre among other things that you intend to live in New Zealand...Are you prepared to lie under signiture?...I was not.

[Avalon]

Well there you go - clear as mud :D

Hannah - perhaps when you ask NZIS - you could let us all know the answer?????

[zardell]

[QUOTE=Avalon]Well there you go - clear as mud :D QUOTE]


Hear, hear....... :laugh

Yes Hannah - do let us know cos I would hate to have to go through this PR caper all over again ! :(


Julie

xx

[foolsgold99]

on paper "indefinete" means for ever.

But it might not, there may be some small print, like in the UK where "indefinete leave to remain" the UK equivelent of PR gets cancelled if you are out of the country for more than 5 years. Wouldn't be shocked to see the same small print in NZ.

I'm going to investigate this tonight and find out more

[Avalon]

on paper "indefinete" means for ever.

But it might not, there may be some small print, like in the UK where "indefinete leave to remain" the UK equivelent of PR gets cancelled if you are out of the country for more than 5 years. Wouldn't be shocked to see the same small print in NZ.

I'm going to investigate this tonight and find out more

Thing is - what is indefinite? The visa - or your right to be out of the country?

Ive sent an email to our case officer asking.

Any luck your end Hannah?
Are you still there?

[Lukas]

...indefinite is the visa alowing you to go out and to return as PR for indefinite time...I was searching for any other specification like the one specified above on the UK case...but I found none. Frankly speackin I found many Malaesyan people with PR intending to tay in NZ untill tey will get their RRV indefinite then leave for many years and come back when tey will retire.

...altough would be a good idea if some would ask an NZIS immiration oficer. Please tell us more...

[Avalon]

...indefinite is the visa alowing you to go out and to return as PR for indefinite time...I was searching for any other specification like the one specified above on the UK case...but I found none. Frankly speackin I found many Malaesyan people with PR intending to tay in NZ untill tey will get their RRV indefinite then leave for many years and come back when tey will retire.

...altough would be a good idea if some would ask an NZIS immiration oficer. Please tell us more...

I kinda hope that isnt the case - cos it seems awfully cheeky to me. I mean you arent exactly making much of a commitment to NZ are you?

Ah well. No one ever said the world was fair :D

[Lukas]

...Commitment my friend?...so far I was paying taxes...without getting any benefit out of it...I was spending quite a good part of my income for air tickets and so one. Of course like many other "committed" people I could apply for NZ citizenship and then find my way to OZ (sounds familiar?)...but I didn’t ...I think that's fair enough. However at least RRV indefinite its something I think I deserve...Whether or not I will settle in NZ.
...I t the time I applied I remember NZIS gave many examples of Canadians with PR spending 6 months in NZ and 6 months in Canada (summer) as something normal , fair...even something to be encouraged

[Avalon]

You're quite right! And of course - if you cant apply for citizenship without giving up own home citizenship - i suppose that also puts a different spin on it. Obviously we do not have to deal with that particular problem, and its not one I tend to consider. Ill have to bear that in mind.

Im not sure i aggree with it - but I can see that theres another side to this :D

[Lukas]

...NO In my particular case as a Romanian citizen I can have up to theree citizenships. The reason I didn't apply so far... rely on the fact that I am not convinced I will stay in NZ.
As a single man, non native English speacker...so far I found in NZ social and professional barriers...on this thread I is not the case to go into details.
...However who knows...maype the right job or opportuniti in NZ is just around the corner :-)

[Hannah]

Hi guys, i'm still here!
thanks for your thoughts on this. has anyone looked into this?
I don't want to hassle my immigration officer yet as i haven't even got PR issued yet (although apparently it's nearly sorted!) so don't want to sound too presumptious!
I'm asking the above question because i just want to check my long term options as we don't know if we will stay in NZ indefinitely - for example, if we returned to UK when our children were teenagers, and they went to college/uni in UK this would mean we are out of country for some years. Hence i'd like to know how indefinite 'indefinite' is, if that makes sense!

Also, I have read the indefinite as 'allowing you multiple visits in and out of country' which implies that you are in Nz for some of that time, it doesn't talk about 'right to remain out of NZ' indefinitely/for many years.

If anyone is brave enough to ask (i'm not right now, sorry!) please let me know. I do think too far ahead sometimes, that's my problem!!!! But it seems every time i deal with NZIS there is some other hoop to jump through that i hadn't foreseen, despite reading this forum daily and reading nzis wholewebsite.....you still come up against things that leave you thinking "Ahhh what have i got to do to make these bureaucrats happy!!!!!!"

cheers, thanks for all your help!!! hannah

[Avalon]

If anyone is brave enough to ask (i'm not right now, sorry!) please let me know.

Erm - im already doing that - though you could too - and really you should get it in writing for yourself anyway. Dont worry - your case officer wont be miffed - its good to try and undertsand all the ins and outs.

[Avalon]

Well there you go: Its dependent on your passport not running out while you are out of the country!

If you an indefinite RRV in a valid passport (i.e. passport that has not expired and which still has pages in that have not been used) you will be granted a new Resident Permit upon re-entry into New Zealand no matter how long you have been outside of New Zealand.

One more new thing ive learned today :D

[PaulandHelen]

So to clarify,
I have PR and i will be landing in about two weeks, i have a returning residence visa in my passport which means, i think, i can leave the country and return within a two year period. After this two year period i can then apply for a 'indefinite' returning visa providing i have spent a minimum amount of days i NZ in The previous two years. So once you have a indefinite visa providing your passport doesn't run out before your return to NZ they will renew it on entry.
Am i understanding thie right?
P+H

[Avalon]

So to clarify,
I have PR and i will be landing in about two weeks, i have a returning residence visa in my passport which means, i think, i can leave the country and return within a two year period.

Yes. as far as Im aware, thats how that bit works.

After this two year period i can then apply for a 'indefinite' returning visa providing i have spent a minimum amount of days i NZ in The previous two years.
(Edited cos I said something that was wrong) Yes: according to the nzis website:
If you have spent 184 days in eash of the 2 previous years in NZ OR you are a taxpayer Or Investments, OR a business OR an established base you can apply for IRRV.
If not:
They can it seems decide to either give you another RRV (not indefinite) for upto 12 months at a time instead of an IRRV, if they do not think you have enough proof to satisfy them or meet the 184 days in 1 year.

So once you have a indefinite visa providing your passport doesn't run out before your return to NZ they will renew it on entry.
Am i understanding thie right?
P+H
The IRRV doesnt need renewing. What you get is a new Residents PERMIT at this time (Which is the bit taht lets you STAY in nz once you get back.) Having the IRRV means that you do not have to re-apply for a permit - its granted automatically.

[Lukas]

...the idefinite RRV is transferabe to a new passport before you come back in NZ...so your initial passport can expire while you are overseas without affecting your PR status in NZ.

[Avalon]

From the Guide to RRV - just in case anyone wants to see it. :D

Can my Returning Resident’s Visa
be transferred to a New Passport?

Yes, you can have your Returning Resident ’s Visa
transferred into your new passport.The validity of
the Returning Resident ’s Visa will be the same as the
Returning Resident ’s Visa in your old passport.
A fee is payable for the transfer of a Returning Resident ’s
Visa to a new passport.Please see the lea fl et New
Zealand Immigration’s Guide to Fees (NZIS 1028)

[Hannah]

Avalon you are a star! Right there in the very small print. I can now go and have my cup of tea with my breakfast knowing that another one of my niggly questions in the back of my mind is sorted.

I will do as you advise and get something in writing once my PR application is sorted out but good to know that indefinite sounds just that, and also an expiring passport won't affect this (other than a cost to transfer the IRRV).

Thanks all for looking into this and commenting on it!

[jazz]

Lukas,

Your words are great to comment,how about a post on your feelings about NZ?

[Lukas]

Jazz...here are some some of my feelings about NZ http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5877

[Diny]

OK - being abit blonde here but seeing as I'm leaving NZ (albeit on a temp basis) in a couple of weeks just thought I'd ask.

The RRV - am I right in thinking it just automatically gets stamped on your return, I don't actually have to put in any further applications do I?

Or do I?

Diny

[Lukas]

...Don't confuse the RRV with the Rezidence permit...unless you have a RRV in your passport you won't be given a residence permit when you return in NZ. ...Yes you have to aply for it

[Avalon]

OK - being abit blonde here but seeing as I'm leaving NZ (albeit on a temp basis) in a couple of weeks just thought I'd ask.

The RRV - am I right in thinking it just automatically gets stamped on your return, I don't actually have to put in any further applications do I?

Or do I?

Diny

Not being blonde at all - this does seem quite hard to get your head round - mine was spinning last night :laugh

Heres what happens if you have an RRV.

1. You leave NZ.
2. At this point your Residence PERMIT expires. (The permit allows you to STAY IN nz.
3. You come back to NZ
4. At passport control - you show them your passport with an RRV in it. This is EXACTLY the same as turning up the first time with your fisrt RESIDENCE VISA.
5. Your residence PERMIT is renewed. You can stay in NZ again!

You should see this on your Visas in your passport.

The PERMIT should read:
The holder of this permit may stay in NZ indefinately. This permit expires when the holder leaves NZ.

The RRV (Or IRRV) shoudl read:
The holder may travel to NZ and on Application shall be granted a residence PERMIT.

Where it says "on application" - it means giving the passport to the customs guy - not that you have to fill in any more forms or stuff like that - its an automatic thing.

[Avalon]

Actually - mulling over this yet more - beacuse thsi has been hard to work out in my own head - I think it may help to sort out in your own head teh difference between a Visa (Either PR Visa, RRV, or IRRV) and the Permit.

The VISA is what entitles you to travel to NZ and APPLY for a residence PERMIT at Passport Control. Without a residence VISA (PR, RRV or IRRV), you would get a Visitors Permit stamp which would be valid for 6 months and would not entitle you to work etc.

The PERMIT is what entitles you to STAY in NZ. Visitors get a permit to be in NZ - but will have a date on it by which they have to leave. Because we have residence VISAs however - when we get the permit stamp - its a RESIDENCE PERMIT and should say we can stay indefinitely.

A PR VISA allows you to come to NZ and apply for 1 residence PERMIT.

An RRV allows you to leave nz and apply for new PERMITS as often as you like within the life of teh RRV (ususally 2 years)

An IRRV (we now are certain) allows you to come and go as you like, leave for as long as you like, and still return and be granted a Residence PERMIT.

Remember - if you have a RESIDENCE PERMIT - you can STAY IN NZ FOR AS LONG AS YOU LIKE.

I promise thast it - I really dont think I could find anything else to say about Visas :D :D :D

[Diny]

Phew thanks for that. I kinda thought that was was I had to do but just wanted to make sure.

Diny

[GeordieLass]

Bumping this useful thread because it answered a question I had about RRV's (whether the initial 2-year one allows for multiple trips. Answer: yes) and also cleared up the whole visa/permit thing which I didn't even realise I didn't know!

ETA: Have just been in to hand in my application and the immigration person confirmed that Avalon is spot on in her above post.

Not that there was any doubt of course!

[Avalon]

Not that there was any doubt of course!
Ahh - it has been known that on occasion (very very rare of course :laugh ) I can be wrong :laugh