[Howie]

I'm new here and am trying to get a handle on the dog situation. Kiwis seem to have quite a different philosophy when it comes to dogs and I must admit I just don't get it and am hoping that someone can shed some light.

Keeping dogs outdoors. Seems odd, but I think it's because I'm from Canada where you can't really keep your dogs outside because they will freeze. I guess I also think that dogs are part of the family and should spend as much time with people as they can. I am starting to think that keeping a dog outside while at work might not be such a bad idea if they have adequate shelter from the rain. I think a dog door would be a great idea, because then the dog could choose when to go outside, but still sleep on the couch.

Dog food. Why is it so expensive? It's over $100 for a big bag of Eukaneuba. I used to pay about $40 for a big bag of premium dog food, which (IMHO) is way better than Eukaneuba. Can you get really good dog food (something that's not mostly corn)? Or do picky people like me feed raw food?

Off leash areas. Dogs on the beach in the winter is a great idea. (Howie has finally decided not to drink salt water!!) But what about taking your dog off leash in other places? Will you get fined? I totally understand having dogs restricted from some areas, as my dog would love to eat a bunch of flightless endangered birds and chase sheep and cows. When I lived in NJ there was no place where you could legally take your dog off leash. However, there were lots of places where people just didn't seem to mind. Sure, you risked getting a fine, but the chances were awfully low.

Where to get a new dog. I'm going to be looking for a puppy soon. I've always had rescue dogs and would like to get another rescue, but I've never had a puppy and I think it's time. Back home, I wouldn't consider getting a dog from a breeder because there's a huge overpopulation problem and getting a dog from a breeder means that some shelter dog will have to die. Is there such an overpopulation problem in NZ? I think I could be convinced to support a responsible breeder if there wasn't an overpopulation problem. Why are there puppies for sale in the pet stores? Back home, the only dogs sold in pet stores come from puppy mills. What happens if no one buys them? Can anyone buy them, or do they make sure they are going to good homes? I've seen a lot of mixed breeds for sale on trademe and some of them seem to be intentional breedings. Do people generally not spay/neuter their dogs?

I know I'm rather opinionated when it comes to dogs, and that a lot of people don't share my opinion, but I understand that the situation could be different here for a reason, and just want to try to figure it out. I'm worried about offending my new Kiwi friends (ok, I don't actually have any Kiwi friends yet) with my dog views.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Susan - who knows she has misplaced maternal instincts.

[jubjub]

Check out the council websites, they are quite detailed with areas you can and cant take dogs, either on or off leash, or "under control" is another phrase (not one our dog understands! Recalls are not his strong point :p ), heres our local one...

http://www.manukau.govt.nz/dogcontrol.htm

Dog food, we buy Optimum, in the supermarket, its in silver bags, our boy seems to like it.

Indoor/outdoor, dont get it either, must be a climate thing, ours loves the couch..., and sleeps in the corner of our bedroom given half a chance..

New dog, cant help with that one, ours is a rescue too all the way from Scotland! How about contacting the kennel club? http://www.nzkc.org.nz/

[Moorf]

Susan

I know where you're coming from re keeping pet dogs outside, I just didn't get it but it's their way and as long as the dog is happy then that's the main thing.

It's something I've chatted to friends about and they told me about how dogs here in NZ used to have to be treated for hydatids (which they got from eating offal and which could be fatal if passed to humans). Many of them still remember the "hydatids man" used to come round and dose the dogs via a piece of treated meat through the garden gate. Because dogs could pass on the disease via their poo etc most folk didn't keep them inside for precisely this reason and most say that "it's always been that way". So it's not really just a case of being strict with their animals - there is a history to the behaviour ;)

I believe that NZ was cleared of the disease back in the late 90's...

Moorf

[veronica]

Hiya, its not all new zealanders, people next door treat their dog pretty much as we do ours.....just a normal house pet. As for getting a puppy, try the rescue centres, apparently they sometimes have them and also start putting the word out and keep an eye out in the local paper in the classified section. we had to have our older dog put down a month or so ago and the younger one is so lonely we are starting to look for another but like you we have always had 'free to a good home' or strays and fancy a puppy again. Mainly because Chippie is such a wuss he would be bossed around by a more mature dog. got to give him the chance to be top dog.

[lisa]

The classifieds are a good bet if you're looking for a puppy. We got ours, a Huntaway cross for $25. (Ok we weren't actually respondng to an ad for the puppy, but he was there when we picked up the pig !)

Attitudes to dogs do vary a lot depending on the area you are in. It's very rural where we are, so most of the dogs work (which makes them cheaper to licence BTW), and more likely to be kept outside. That said ours lives inside, although he now sleeps in the garage, which is probably as near as he will get.

[sweetpea]

You can try the pound for a puppy. I called the Palmerston North shelter hotline when Silas took himself for a walk a couple of weeks ago and there were a bunch of lab cross and staffy cross puppies on their list of dogs being held.

I feed Silas Pedigree, which is a long step down from his old food, but I don't think Eukanuba or Science Diet, which seem to be the premium brands available, are that much better. Even if California Natural or Innova were to show up in shops here, I just cannot pay $100/bag.

I don't get the NZ dog thing either. Outdoor dogs-bleh. And No Dogs signs everywhere. There are a few off-leash areas in Palmerston North, but they don't seem to be well advertised. My dog just runs on our 3 acres these days and goes on car rides with me.

[Oregonkiwi]

As Veronica says, not all kiwis keep their dogs outside, I've known plenty of pampered "indoor" kiwi dogs. And keeping dogs outside isn't unique to NZ, there are lots of outside dogs here who bark at me when I'm walking around the neighborhood.

[Howie]

. Even if California Natural or Innova were to show up in shops here, I just cannot pay $100/bag.

Sweetpea - is there anything like Innova available here? Howie was on Solid Gold before, but was thinking of switching him to Evo.

Thanks for all the comments. It's true that in the US and in Canada not all dogs are part of the family.

I've been looking at the Auckland SPCA, but most of the puppies are Pitt mixes and I would be worried about importing them back to
Canada. Ontario already has a Pitt ban (crazy). I just found this (http://www.petsonthenet.co.nz/cgibin/suite/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?request=display_sub_list&category_id=114&sub_id=1097&variable_file=adopt.variables&website=default&set=1&group=1&session=409475fb5faf3262) rescue website.

[Oregonkiwi]

That website looks promising, and maybe if you keep checking at the SPCA you'll meet your puppy? Also try just asking around other dog owners, my parents adopted their (older) dog through a chance encounter at the beach, so you never know who might be looking for a home.

[sweetpea]

Sweetpea - is there anything like Innova available here? Howie was on Solid Gold before, but was thinking of switching him to Evo.

Last year I emailed Natura Pet Foods, the makers of Innova, and they said that they plan to sell their food in NZ in the near future (whenever that might be). In any case, it's available in Australia, so I suppose that's a good sign that one day....

I looked for other premium foods, although not very strenuously after I saw prices. It seems like Eukanuba and Science Diet are about it.

About outdoor dogs in the US vs. NZ... I think there is a real difference. There are a lot of outdoor dogs in the States, but when going to rent a place in the US, I was never told that as a condition of renting that the dog must be kept outside -- this happened almost without exception in Palmerston North.

[jess]

One thing I noticed -- in some areas they have poisoned bait down for possums, and the signs all around these reserves warn you to keep your dog leashed, because if they eat the bait or a dead possum, they will be poisoned as well. I'm wondering if this is why I don't see any stray dogs around? :uhoh

As others said I've met kiwis who keep dogs in the house - mostly smaller dogs. There are a lot of folks out here at the beach with dogs off leash - we have off leash and on leash sections, but it's all off leash in actual practice. Sometimes walking the beach a huge dog will come running up to me with no owner in sight, and then I'll hear a whistle from over a dune, and they'll take off. I love dogs. It has scared me once though when a giant rotweiller came running straight at me full speed when no one was around. I keep thinking about the newspaper articles about maulings, but have had absolutely no trouble. All have been sweet. I will not be walking our small dog on the beach, though, just in case.

From what I can tell a lot of people who keep their dogs outside do seem to think of them as part of the family. Not what I expected. Maybe because they spend a lot of time doing outdoor things with their dogs here?

I guess you know, but they are talking about having every dog in the country microchipped. There's a big argument right now about farm dogs, but the rest are sure to be tracked. We all have to have our imported dogs microchipped anyway, but I thought it was interesting. Imagine keeping track of every dog in the US!

Don't know if any of that is helpful other than the poison warning...

J

[Angie and Mick]

Thanks for the warning, if we do bring out dog she is a greedy so and so would eat any bait although not the possum.

[StevieD]

Got no chance leaving our dog outside, scratches the bloomin door down to get back in the wimp!! (Unless she is outside rat watching) But little Yorkies are ok to have in the house anyway... :) And very low maintenance too which is even better.

[willsken]

Got no chance leaving our dog outside, scratches the bloomin door down to get back in the wimp!!

Same as our little Pops! No way would she let you leave her outside! :roll

[smitjo]

Our 'little' girl would be absolutely horrified with the idea of staying outside all day! She likes to have every door in the house open so that she can go wherever she likes whenever she likes! It's fantastic when she jumps in the pond (typical labrador!) and then wonders into the house absolutely sopping wet! Actually the 'outdoor dog' idea is sounding more appealing now..... :laugh :laugh YEAH RIGHT :D

[StevieD]

What it was with our dogs was the dog flap we had on the back door from when they were little - so used to coming and going as she pleased. Plus we are daft with them too!

[Juniper]

arrrrg i am finding the news about the possum poison really aggravating... i realize possums are creepy but come on, way too easy to poison pets! what about cats?!? not like you can keep a cat "on leash"...

our lab ate rat poison over christmas break, out in the middle of nowhere in a mountain cabin of course, so it was quite dramatic figuring out what we needed to do and who she could be treated by (thank goodness for hotlines in the phone book). the thing is, we only knew to do anything because we heard her lick the stuff up, checked it out, found the container, yep highly deadly. this particular poison caused internal bleeding, which is a common method, so you might not notice any symptoms until it's a major major emergency.

we wouldn't let our dog run around the neighborhood (she is really bad at recalls! :-P ) but what about the kitties, and runaways?

[Oregonkiwi]

Here's a link to some info about why possums need to be poisoned, what poisons are used, and the risk to dogs:

http://www.doc.govt.nz/Conservation/002~Animal-Pests/001~Control-Methods/Possum-Control-(Facts-About-1080).asp
"The Department of Conservation (DOC) uses 1080 to counter the devastating effect high numbers of introduced possums are having on native plants and animals. In many areas possum browsing threatens kamahi and rata forests with collapse and the endangered mistletoe with extinction. Possums eat threatened giant land snails and the eggs of kiwi, kokako and kereru, and they compete with kaka for food."

[jess]

I have wondered about cats as well. There are a number of cats that spend the day out in the yards here at the beach. I've seen quite a few in suburbs north of Welly too. I don't know if it's a big issue. The page OregonKiwi linked to (thanks!) only discusses that it's highly toxic to dogs. My guess is that there aren't many stray dogs around the city, because they are so susceptible to the poison.

The only actual place I have seen the possum bait signs is on the walk up to Mt Victoria lookout. But that would effect anybody in that part of the city. And there are bound to be many other areas.

[Howie]

I found a dog food that I like. Yes, there is dog food even more expensive than eukanuba. My husband swears that I only pick out dog food by the price, but actually, the ingredients list sounds good. I'm going to try to order some. Check it out here (http://www.pawsnall.co.nz/)

I also found an agility club that uses the same training methods as my instructor in NJ that I loved. I'm sure I'll find lots of crazy dog people there.

My sense of sanity is slowly returning.

[Juniper]

the food sounds great, free delivery no less! stuff like that is important to me, "you are what you eat" right...

[Debbie]

Thanks for the link Howie,
I have a dog that's wheat free and dairy free after having a ruptured stomach ulcer. I have a food here that he is settled on but it's good to have an alternative.
Debbie

[Going2NZ]

I've just tried a dog food called Mighty Mix (OK, my dogs tried it but you know what I mean). Go to mightymix.co.nz. Anyhow, my pups seem to have a problem digesting corn and had, to put it delicately, tummy issues. I paid $74 for 25k and so far, so good. The stuff has grains but no corn and even smells healthy - you know, fresh and baked. The delivery is free and the guy just dropped off a bag and left an invoice. Gotta love New Zealanders!