New Zealand - Are You a Pauper?

21st April 2006, 10:40 PM

I just thought that it might be useful to start a thread for those thinking of moving to NZ who do not have substantial money on which to draw. Sorry if this thread theme has been done before and I have missed it.

There must be a number of people who can technically get PR/WTR, and who really want to move to NZ, but who are in more or less financially marginal positions.

Yes, for sure, having at least a five-figure amount of savings/house-sale proceeds is a huge -- maybe even critical -- benefit, but getting PR and moving to NZ is surely not impossible if you are not in that position.

So maybe this can be a place for folks to bat tips/ideas around re. doing things more, rather than less, cheaply. From paying for NZIS fees, to budget groceries, to a more microscopic examination of the whole "to ship or not to ship things" debate. Whatever.

Finally: we're not talking here about people being expected on this thread to turn their bank statements or pockets out in public, or to do a "Four Yorkshiremen", thank you very much. It's just that I think there are people who have -- or are getting -- most of their NZ ducks in a row but who are going to have to manoeuvre more carefully than some others in terms of $$$$. :yes

Any takers?

Questor

21st April 2006, 10:56 PM

Well I don't think we're going to have a huge amount of money to go over with - we're counting on our jobs being able to keep us going, and the small amount of savings we've got!
We've budgeted and it looks like we'll be fine - the 40% rent/mortgage rule helps with that

21st April 2006, 11:08 PM

Thanks for the post, Questor. I'm breathing a little bit easier. To be honest it's a late Friday night and I was anxious that I hadn't pitched my thread in quite the right way.

Of course I was being a bit cartoon-ish with my "pauper" image, and also I love the fact that many folks are moving to NZ without financial headaches adding to their challenges.

But I thought it might be as well to get us all talking about doing things inexpensively, whether from choice or necessity. :nice1

reevos

22nd April 2006, 12:00 AM

Hi ... I liked the post .. starting to get worried cos most people were talking about houses to sell and I imagined them heading over there with pots of money!!! .. we are only renting in the UK having returned from the USA and so don't have any equity in property ... have savings but sure they will disappear!!!! ... nice to hear from those people who got to NZ and built a life up over there without having a substaintial financial backing to go with...

Katy and family

Lupin

22nd April 2006, 02:08 AM

We don't have a house to sell and will be doing this as frugally as possible in order to protect the four figure savings we have earmarked as a deposit for a house at some point.

I think those first weeks in NZ before a rental is sorted could be very expensive so we're thinking about how we manage that frugally without camping!! I'd be interested in how others have or plan to manage that on a shoestring. Motels and holiday homes (and even hostels) could burn through most our savings if we don't plan carefully. On the other hand, having two children, one who has some anxieties about moving, means we need our first weeks to be a positive experience.

Shipping a container load would be pointless for us as our wordly goods simply aren't worth it. We won't be replacing everything when we arrive either but will need to look for second hand and make do without what isn't needed.

So count us in and I'll be interested to see how this thread develops. :nice1

Lukas

22nd April 2006, 02:26 AM

...I immigrated in NZ with less than 1000 NZ$ to spend...

Oregonkiwi

22nd April 2006, 03:09 AM

Count us in! Not much savings, no house to sell, no jobs lined up. We're hoping that the sale of our 7 year old Subaru will give us enough to buy an ok used car in NZ. Like Lupin, a container would be pointless for us. I'm currently looking into ways to get my husband into NZ without PR so he can apply for PR in Auckland as the fees are lower and the medical surely must cost less than in America - he'll need some kind of visa to fly to NZ on a one-way ticket (don't want to pay for a return ticket if we don't need to.) (I'm a kiwi so he'll be applying under partnership category.)
On the plus side, we're lucky to be able to move in with my parents when we first arrive, so that takes a large financial burden off.

smitjo

22nd April 2006, 03:25 AM

Well we haven't got a house to sell either and have been living with my folks for the past year and a half in order to build up some savings for our move to NZ (hopefully to use as a deposit for a house). We have got our PR visa but don't have any jobs lined up so we are working right up until we move in October so that we can finance ourselves for a few months out of employement (without touching the savings)! We are taking some stuff over with us, all our wedding prezzies (that have never been used!) and our chocolate labrador of course (setting us back a good £2000!)

We know that it is going to be tough for the first few months but have managed to find a small cottage on a farm in Plimmerton to rent for $350 per week including water and elec.

It is such a relief to know that we are not the only ones in this position and hopefully it will all work out fine for us in the end!

KD17

22nd April 2006, 03:45 AM

I agree, your thread is a breath of fresh air with all that I've ready about "wealthy british poms", it proves that statement is not true.

We had some disappointing news which means that we are in the same boat as everyone else now in that we have to pay all our own fees, fair, etc., etc. which we were thinking we could have got paid via an employer - but not to be..

This personally set me back a bit, wondering if we could financially make the move - and there is your thread....

We won't have any considerable sum, perhaps a little from a flat keith has had since he was 17. We now have to go on the job hunt ourselves (luckily have PR) I sold virtually all my belongings over a year ago now, and we are pricing up what it will cost us to take what little we have left.

We will be in NZ around Oct time (unless jobs beckon prior to this) and despite the financial struggle which we know we will ensue, we are both very excited about our new lives.

I've never needed a fancy house, car, clothes etc., so there's nothing gonna change there.

Richness is not counted by whats in your purse anyway, but what's in your heart.

Keith & Debby

Aikaterine

22nd April 2006, 04:00 AM

You see this one is pulling a lurker out... :yes

I'm very interested to read the responses here. I'm a wife and mom of three, all 5/under. My DH and I have gone from having a very dreamy, casual conversation about NZ to actually researching and exploring and wondering if it's a true possibility for us. The main attraction is a change in lifestyle and priorities/values reflected in the general society we're a part of now.

We are in a (self-made, to be clear) situation not uncommon, I'm afraid. We have a large (1901 build) home that we intend to sell. However, we've only had it for 3 years and had to finance some renovation during that time, so we'll have to wait to get a good sale price. In other words, we won't exactly have a large profit to bring over.

A container for us is also out. We are actually far more interested in the prospect of paring down on this end and choosing necessities once we're there. The few special items that we want to keep in the family can be distributed here. In actuality, we've discovered that we will do that sort of lifestyle-makeover with or without a move on the horizon.

We do have a small investment cushion but it's fairly inaccessible without penalties. The resulting funds would be nominal (<3K $US).

In short, right now we're paying the bills! I've been reading and wondering if this is going to turn out to be a two or three year plan. It's intriguing to hear all of your experiences (cushioned or not). If it were just the two of us, we'd get ourselves there, buy a tent, and work out the rest after. With our 3 little ones, though, we feel the need to be a little more careful. So, we are working on a strategy for paring down and saving toward our NZ life.

Thanks to everyone for sharing all the incredible information!

zardell

22nd April 2006, 06:27 AM

Hi Aikaterine and WELCOME to the forum.

I agree - this is a brilliant thread.....Well done MB.

Keith and Debby are quite right when they say that richness comes from what's in your heart and not in your purse....And trust me when I say that there are no 'wealthy British Poms' lurking in our house !!

Yes, it has to be said that my OH and I have been together for over 20 years and our kids and respective step-kids are now grown with kids of their own, so our financial position and financial concerns are not the same as you young 'uns out there, but we have concerns nevertheless.

You tend to look at life through a different pair of spectacles when you realise that because of your age, you wont be eligible for a 25 year mortgage, because you will have retired well before the 25 years is up !!

So what kind of lifestyle will we be able to afford in NZ?

Don't know yet, but it sure ain't going to stop us from finding out !!

Good luck to everybody.

:nice1

Julie

xx

katandbob

22nd April 2006, 06:48 AM

baboonworld

22nd April 2006, 07:40 AM

Can of worms methinks!! Remember the controversial poll of '05!

willsken

22nd April 2006, 07:45 AM

Can of worms methinks!! Remember the controversial poll of '05!

No, do tell! :yes

baboonworld

22nd April 2006, 07:47 AM

can't - i will no doubt be slated in the forum! (not by my fellow NWers though).

22nd April 2006, 08:19 AM

Ta so much, everyone.

I don't want to bore you all with further images of my Friday evenings (ooh-er :exit ), but starting this thread was on my mind a bit last night after I'd posted.

See, I adore the fact that on this forum everyone just gets on with the forward-looking business of exchanging info and support, and that little direct reference to personal finances is made or even needed.

So peering into other folks' wallets is not where I'm at. :laugh

A group of people I certainly did have in mind, when posting this, are those who just want a bit of context, of the "Tell me I'm not alone and crazy, and also tell me how to do things on a bit of a shoestring!" variety.

wilson182

22nd April 2006, 08:48 AM

After many years of talking we decided to take the plunge and come over for a month long "reccie" in May 04. We cashed in an endowment policy, happy that even if we decided not to stay it would have been money well spent. We had about $12k. This paid for accomodation (motels and a couple of holiday homes) and our travels (Christchurch, Dunedin, Taranaki and back to Christchurch) plus car and mobile phone rental. After two weeks we decided to stay and OH got a job, which he started on the last week of May. We had already agreed that if he got a job I would go back to England on my own (but with the kids) to rent the house and tie up affairs over there.
The scariest part was finding somewhere to rent on about 1/3 of his wages which was only $280 at the time, and believe me some of the places we were shown you would not have put an animal in. But, we found somewhere (fully furnished) and then used most of the rest of the money to Buy a car, Computer, Deposit for rental etc. Because we didnt sell the house immediately we also had no funds to set us up, so we had to think very carefully about what we would take with us. We had decided to rent out our house as fully furnished plus the house in NZ was fully furnished so large furniture items would not be needed. I ended up with about 3cubic metres of stuff, mostly clothes and toys, personal items (photos etc) Tv, Chest Freezer etc. It was quite important for me to get a job as soon as I could when I arrived back, which I did after three weeks. We were then able to progress to renting an unfurnished house, which meant a few months of sitting on deck chairs and watching the Tv balanced on a removals box... (you get the picture) We spent about six months of last year refurnishing, and at times that was quite hard cause we had to live on a VERY tight budget. BUT, we did it.. have some really fantastic stuff AND its ours, bought and paid for. OK, some of it came second hand from trade me, but it is all good stuff. I guess like a few people, one of our main objectives was to live free of debt, and that we have managed to do (we will have to have a mortgage though) It wasnt easy and you have to break some very deep routed habits, but it can be done. The house is now sold and so we do have some savings now, but I think I just wanted to say (all bit it a bit of a ramble) that it can be done without huge amounts of money....

zardell

22nd April 2006, 08:49 AM

Dito..Julie, I have never insinuated that we are 'rich poms'Kat

Hey, don't get me wrong here. I don't think for one minute that Keith and Debbie were insinuating anything about anybody and I hope I haven't upset anybody, cos that was certainly not my intention.

All I was trying to say was that whatever your age or whatever your personal financial situation may be, we all have our own trials and tribulations in this world and at the end of the day, we all try to do our best with what we have got. And if we can make what we've got that little bit better - well, why not?

I'll shut up now before I unintentionally insult somebody else !! :uhoh

Julie

xx

zardell

22nd April 2006, 08:59 AM

[QUOTE=MB] "Tell me I'm not alone and crazy, QUOTE]

Of course you're not alone and of course you're crazy, but its a crazy club that I'm very happy to be a member of !

:cheers

Julie

xx

jess

22nd April 2006, 09:21 AM

We moved before our house sold. It has only been on the market in the US since right before we left almost 3 weeks ago, so for now we have no profit and are paying both rent and a mortgage. :wah

Anyway, I know it's been mentioned a lot on the forum, but we found The Warehouse to be really cheap. Comparable to WalMart prices. Bought a queen size mattress from TW for $300 NZD. This was next door to a home store selling a $3000 queen mattress. I also saw the exact same set of cheap dishes that were $16 in a US Target for $10 at The Warehouse. You can find a huge range of prices on most things depending on where you shop.

We spent our first week before we had a rental house in the Wildlife Backpackers, and it was $65/night for a double room sharing the bathrooms on the hall. ($75/night if you want your own bathroom). The staff was very nice, and they can photocopy and fax for you, which came in very handy. They also have internet access on 6 computers upstairs and a great kitchen with fridges so you don't have to eat out. The only problem is parking if you have a car - very expensive in the city! $20 for overnight in the parking deck.

The biggest thing for us overall has been the bit of cash we had saved before we left. We kept our US bank account open, and with the exchage rate anything we can pay for with the Visa that pulls from checking in USD is a lot cheaper.

If you are on a tight budget, I would think you'd want to live as near as you can to work for a cheaper train ticket or cheaper gas. Gas is 1.67 a litre, and it's costing about $56 NZD to fill the tank on our little car.

So far watching every penny is not bothering me. We have a woodstove at the rental house, and because you pay by the bag to put out trash, I have been burning all our paper trash and trying to use the dish towel instead of paper towels where possible. I like to think I am pretty much a tree hugger type, but I am surprised at how attention to the dollar has me creating less trash than I did before.

Also when I asked the landlord where to buy firewood, he said, why don't you just pick up driftwood from the beach? That's worked out well since we live 5 min walk from the Tasman Sea. There's no shortage of driftwood here, and hardly anyone on the beach.

Maybe I'm weird, but there's a nice feeling in not using more than you need to and in not making more trash than necessary.

We are further out of Wellington than originally planned - rent was very cheap on the Kapiti Coast. I would like to move in closer to Welly once our house has sold, but it's nice here as well. Since I work for a US company from home, it's not a problem for me to live out this far, and it looks like my OH has found some work nearby.

And of course, like everywhere else in the world, there's always Ramen! 43 cents a packet!! :yes

katandbob

22nd April 2006, 11:41 AM

Hey, don't get me wrong here. I don't think for one minute that Keith and Debbie were insinuating anything about anybody and I hope I haven't upset anybody, cos that was certainly not my intention.

All I was trying to say was that whatever your age or whatever your personal financial situation may be, we all have our own trials and tribulations in this world and at the end of the day, we all try to do our best with what we have got. And if we can make what we've got that little bit better - well, why not?

I'll shut up now before I unintentionally insult somebody else !!

Julie

xx
;) nah I didnt think u would.... :laugh stop getting paranoid....

ps sold my LCD tv for £501....had a bidding war :raebanana

now back to doing my mums scrapbook....its her birthday tomorrow...and its the pressie :o

Kat

22nd April 2006, 11:55 AM

now back to doing my mums scrapbook....its her birthday tomorrow...and its the pressie :o

Kat

That's nice, Kat. When we were children my Dad always used to keep the birthday cards, etc., that we had made, rather than bought. Putting time and thought in means a lot. :)

Aikaterine

22nd April 2006, 12:41 PM

I can't tell you all how helpful it is to hear about the 'basics' - thanks again!
[devouring posts left and right]

Hannah

22nd April 2006, 06:56 PM

Hi All,
Not sure if this is the right place to put this posting, after all the 'wealth is what is in your heart' stuff. I've been here 6 months and feel I really should add a bit about our experiences - costly ones at that. Yes I agree that for some people emigrating can be done on a small budget (such as Lukas coming over with $1000 or whatever) but I have spent much more - and believe me I am one of the most frugal, stingiest people i know. (The last time I bought clothes was in a UK sale in 2003 and I own three pairs of shoes which I bought 5+ years ago!)

We totalled up what we have spent so far and have worked out that our move out to NZ, which only 3 days ago ended up in having our residency application approved, has so far cost us 16,000 GBP (about NZ$40,000).

To make it easier I've put it all in NZ $ at an exchange rate of 2.5 GBP to NZ$ (the exchange rate when we left UK in November). We came over on visitor visas and looked for work...

This is how it adds up:

$7,500 Return flights from UK for 2 adults and 2 children
$1,500 Cheap old Honda Prelude 1989
$150 WOF (Warrant of Fitness on car - like an MOT, and car tax). We didn't get insurance
$1,600 International school fees for our 2 children
$200 Other school fees (for stationery, trips, school 'family contribution' etc)
$500 student permit and work permit (when we found jobs)
$200 Dentist bills for my 2 family members
$150 for 2 GP visits and medication for 1 family member
$6,000 food shopping for six months ($250 a week)
$10,000 rent for fully furnished 3 bed ($400 a week)
$1,000 phone bill for six months (about $160 a month)
$1,200 fuel bills (electric and gas, over summer months, about $200 a month)
$1,500 petrol (about $70 a week - and price of petrol keeps rising)
$500 cheap second hand bikes and new cycle helmets
$820 medicals for family (for PR application)
$100 PR application related costs (endless photos, postage, police checks, birth certificates etc)
$1,100 EOI and ITA fees ($300 and $800 respectively)

Note that the above costs do not include costs in selling our house (we decided not to sell it before we left) and we haven't shipped over any furniture.

Now that adds up to $35,030. Where is the other $5,000? That's the 'lost money' we all struggle to account for - swimming entry fees, weekend trips out, icecreams, cup of tea in the cafe, christmas presents, birthday presents for friend's children, pocket money for kids......). People rarely ever account for this kind of stuff in their calculations. In the UK we worked out our accounts for the year and found that we 'lost' 44 GBP (about $100) per week in things we couldn't account for! Since we've been here we've lost $200 per week (most of it on my son's swimming competitions and training probably - which cost far less in the UK).

We have not bought any clothes, or furniture (we live in a fully furnished rental). We don't drink alcohol, or smoke. We had a cheap Christmas with a $10 tree, borrowed decorations, and bought the children very cheap presents. We rarely put the gas on and my frugal hubbie paces the house turning off lights which are unnecessarily on and 'wasting money'!

What did we earn?

It took my hubbie 9 weeks to get a job. It took me 16 weeks (my interview was delayed three times and then there was delay starting work).

Hubbie worked for 6 weeks in a job he hated more that any job he had ever done. It was a skilled electrical job earning about $600 take home a week. Hence he earned $3,600.

I will have earned about $8,500 by the end of this month - the six month mark.

In 6 months (3 months of which at least one of us worked) we earnt about $12,000 but spent about $40,000. Hence $28,000 (about 12,000 GBP) will have come from savings. Each week we consistently spent more than we earn, particularly as I am the only earner at the moment. We don't qualify for tax credits at the moment as we are not officially residents yet. We thought we were spending so much because we hadn't got residency. But what amazes me if that if I look at that list of costs above and think about what we would have saved if we came to NZ with a PR visa it would only have been $2,200 (international school fees, student/work permits, dentist bill for son).

Add the shipping of furniture to that and we would be looking at another $10,000.

We've done things as cheap as a couple of stingy gits could get! Cheap car, few luxuries, etc. Our big costs were in the rent (unfurnished would be cheaper ... but nothing going in New Plymouth for less than $300-350 unfurnished so only a saving of $2,600 maximum there which would be offset buying second hand furniture which is vastly over priced in New Plymouth!). Our other big costs is our swimming son who enters every competition going and has to pay up to $5 per entry - could be as much as $30 if he swims in six races at an event. Add to that training costs, club fees etc. Swimming competitively here costs about four times as much as it did in UK, due to the swimming entry fees and costs of travel and accommodation as competitions so much further away.

I know many of you could argue that we are different - we came without jobs, we came to New Plymouth (where some may argue there are less jobs), we rented fully furnished, we didn't get our shopping bill below $200 a week like some people, etc etc. That's not the point i'm trying to make. I'm not bitching about what we've spent but rather highlighting the reality of our costs of living here. We budgetted for our trip here and worked out that we would need 15,000 GBP, including flights, to stay here for 6 months. Turns out we needed a bit more than that, but we've earnt money here so it's worked out ok.

What it does leave me with is a question - how would we survive if we lived here permanently. We'd both have to work longer hours here than in the UK and our time with our children would be compromised. Whether I can accept that compromise in order to gain the other benefits that NZ has to offer (for which I can't put a monetary value) on is one I have to work through over the next few weeks. I remember posting on this forum once the comment that said 'getting PR is the first of your hurdles' and boy is that comment coming back to haunt me now!!!

Hope i haven't depressed you all, that wasn't my intention. Maybe by seeing my costs, and quite possibly where I may have gone wrong and not been frugal enough, you can see how you can cut corners and where you can't, what costs related to being part of a family and what do not, and budget accordingly.

Maybe it's just me???

Cheers, Hannah

Hannah

22nd April 2006, 06:59 PM

StevieD

22nd April 2006, 07:44 PM

I'll shut up now before I unintentionally insult somebody else !!

Julie, not like you to insult anybody!! :laugh

Steve :nice1

katandbob

22nd April 2006, 08:09 PM

Oooops, add to that the $1200 migrant levy fee coming up in the next few days... had better dig a bit deeper into my pockets :-)

And i forgot to mention the fact that we are still paying out 50% council tax on our property in England as it's not rented out, along with 20% of our water bill (to cover sewerage costs). And the damn TV licensing people are still sending up demands for payment despite the fact that I've told them endless times that we can't possibly watch UK TV when we are in NZ!!!

Hey, now this IS getting depressing.... :-(

Yes it does sound depressing....when you put it like that, but you obviously are still there, your son sounds like he is having the time of his life, and must be good at it... (swimming i mean) and the first post was very useful (although it will probably scare my OH!)

correct me if I am wrong, but you don't sound as if you are giving up, just that you have to make choices to get your dream?

as I once said, you only live once....if we end up penny pinching when we are in NZ then so be it, as we are the same here....at least I will have a good view!

All the best and I hope hubby finds a nice job soon :)

all the best Kat

22nd April 2006, 08:13 PM

Hi All,
Not sure if this is the right place to put this posting, after all the 'wealth is what is in your heart' stuff.

Superb place for it, if you ask me. Cheers, ten-fold.

zardell

22nd April 2006, 09:50 PM

Excellent posts Hannah - thank you.

Loved the 'wealth is what is in the heart stuff' comment, because I have to agree that a nice view and the outdoor life (lovely though that would be) won't pay the bills.

Yours is the kind of post that I personally was hoping for on this thread. Someone who was prepared to give an excellent indication of set-up costs and point out the unexpected (or forgotten) costs.

Bob the Engineer did a post a while ago where he put on it copies of 'junk mail' that came through his Napier door. These related to furniture/household goods stores etc. and gave an excellent indication of average priced goods.

Maybe some of you would be prepared to do the same with your junk mail / shopping receipts ?

Thanks for all this wonderful information,

Julie

xx

zardell

22nd April 2006, 09:57 PM

Julie, not like you to insult anybody!! :laugh

Steve :nice1

Not unintentionally - no........ :laugh

:exit

Julie

xx

ps
Feeling the need for a qvc hit Jan ???

StevieD

22nd April 2006, 10:23 PM

Very informative - and a good indication of how diverse this whole emigration lark is.
At the end of the day, we all have differing circumstances, have differing views on what we want out of life.

Living is what you make of it, and all I want is to be debt free (compared to now anyway!) with only a mortgage, not all the additional rubbish that is hanging around my neck now. When I pay all that off I will walk taller and happier. I will never ever make the same mistakes I made in UK, and moving to NZ, while a risk, is giving us a second chance, another bite at the cherry, that isn't afforded to us while in UK, even if we do pay off the debts, which is only possible by selling my house.

So, good luck to everybody, whatever your circumstances, at least you are going out and making things happen instead of sitting back like the majority.

Steve

Hannah

23rd April 2006, 12:14 AM

Hi Kat and others,

No, we're certainly not 'giving up'! We came here with our eyes pretty wide open in terms of costs, largely as a result of what we have read in the past on this forum and our own research (contacting rental agencies, etc). We even obtained local papers from New Plymouth and had them sent to our house in the six months before we left to find out information about what is going on locally, what the local 'issues' are, house prices, second hand car prices etc. I know that level of research probably makes us sound anally retentive - that's my hubby, who likes to know PRECISELY what he's getting himself into. To be fair, our estimate of costs was not far off, probably due to his anally retentive calculations in the months before we flew out!

If we had come here with my original short sighted view which was based on personal beliefs such as 'meat will be cheaper because the country is full of lamb', 'I'll grow my own veg and never need to buy anything' and 'we'll save so much money because we won't have a TV licence and the council tax is half as much as the UK' I have to say I would have given up and come home a long time ago. Yes, you can save money in some areas (no TV licence, cheaper car tax/WOF, cheaper petrol) but then it adds up in others (fruit and veg - and indeed most food - is dearer than UK; school fees; doctors bills; second hand white goods, furniture, cars etc). We have compared cost of living here by adding up all of our everyday costs (bills basically) here in the last 6 months...compared directly with our UK spending our cost of living is greater here (not allowing for differences in income!!). Actually I earn more here than I did in the UK and yet i'm worse off financially!!! As for growing my own food, I've spent more time at work here than I ever have done in the UK so I don't have time to grow my own veg. I live less than 5 minutes from the beach and yet have probably visited it twice in the last month due to 'real life' getting in the way.

Despite all that, I like it here and would happily stay. I'd just as happily return to the UK. My reasons for coming here were as much about experience and doing something different as they were about checking this out as a long term place to live. I guess that makes me a pretty objective commentator on the financial situation (along with my 'objective' balance sheets!). If I stay, I think i'd have to change jobs and find a part time job. Would need to find cheaper accommodation in order to that. House prices here are scary - anything under $300,000 is a dump generally. Decent houses (new, insulated, garden bigger than a matchbox, good location) are in the $500,000 mark. There's a 3 bedroom architecturally designed (i.e. weird) house down the road from us, on a plot that leaves just enough room for you to walk round the outside of the house, up for $795,000 at the moment. We lived in a part of the UK where house prices were not vastly high - our 3 bed semi would fetch around 150,000 GBP at the moment....that would give us $375,000. Take off moving fees (estate agent, solicitor etc. and costs of container) of about 5,000 GBP ($13,000) leaves a figure of $360,000 (from which mortgage pay off needs to be deducted). Doesn't buy much in New Plymouth (I can't comment on other parts of NZ although average house prices here are less than many other parts of NZ). Then you have to consider that houses here are...how can I put it...just not as good quality. Wooden, not brick, so maybe don't last as long? I don't know... To top it off, I got a mortgage quote recently based on my salary...I can borrow $280,000. I looked in the paper and could only find 2 bedroom houses in that price range!!! The mortgage interest rates are very high at the moment which impacts of course on what you can borrow.

House prices are a big issue and they have risen in New Plymouth by 50% or more since we visited here 3 years ago. Looking at houses here we have come to the conclusion that to buy something like for like with our UK house here (3 bed, solid construction, big garden, good location) would cost us more than it would in the UK. 3 years ago we could have bought a lifestyle block! (House prices rose here but stabilized in our part of the UK hence the big difference).

I won't go on - I can touch type and it makes me ramble sometimes! Please don't think I'm giving NZ a hard time. I'm just telling it as it is. People do get by, on much lower salaries than I'm earning, and I guess being the new girl in town makes it harder for me to budget. I probably pay for things that I could get cheaper/free elsewhere. I don't know. What i do know is we've bought no 'toys' since we've been here - no new kayaks, bodyboards, wetsuits, CDs/DVDs, video games etc. - just bog standard day to day essentials and a few little treats here and there like a cup of tea in the park. What i also know is that if i work 40 hours a week on a salary that is greater than I earnt in the UK (but paying much more tax too!!) my hubby still needs to go out and find a job in order for us to cover those basic costs. In the UK I paid into a work pension and saved up for holidays, children's future etc. Here I just spend my UK savings to pay my bills. For the first time in my life we all went into a cafe, ordered lunch, paid by EFTPOS (debit card) to be told our payment was declined! I found out I was $77 overdrawn ... 3 days before my salary was paid in. We had beans on toast for tea for 2 days because I refused to touch my savings yet again!

What I do also know is that I would not change having come here for the world, whether or not we stay long term. Everyone is different, they earn different money, they buy different things. If you have doubts I would still say come here and give it a go! Exchange rates are getting better too, and houses are asking silly money but not selling so there's room to haggle. And what the hell, it's damn good fun and an experience not to be missed!!!

Hannah

mossum

23rd April 2006, 12:19 AM

Living is what you make of it, and all I want is to be debt free (compared to now anyway!) with only a mortgage, not all the additional rubbish that is hanging around my neck now. When I pay all that off I will walk taller and happier. I will never ever make the same mistakes I made in UK, and moving to NZ, while a risk, is giving us a second chance, another bite at the cherry, that isn't afforded to us while in UK, even if we do pay off the debts, which is only possible by selling my house.

This is us exactly - unless we win the lottery witch we dont actually play :laugh

love this thread - makes me feel more "normal " :raebanana

vic x

Hannah

23rd April 2006, 12:27 AM

In response to Zardell's request for junk mail info... here's some 'hot deals' from Woolworths supermarket this week (note, these are the special deals)

*$8.99 per kilo Premium minced beef
*$5 for 3 tip top sliced white bread
*$2.85 for 4 sorbent hypoallergenic toilet tissues
$8.99 for a bottle of Montana classic wine
$1.49 per kilo of Braeburn apples
$8.95 750ml bottle of handwash
$7.97 100g tube of sensodyne toothpaste
$14.95 ladies grip handbag (why does a supermarket sell that? Surely people go to bag shops for that? I don't ever carry bags because I would just leave them places and lose them...I wear trousers with big pockets instead!)

And for those with a cat that likes the finer things in life....
$2.99 for 7 whiskas singles (those little pouch things with cat food in)

If only I could live on 'specials' alone. Minced beef and sorbent with sensodyne gravy with lightly steamed ladies grip hand bag on the side. Washed down with a glass of Montana followed by dessert....braeburn apples drizzled with lavender handwash on sliced tip top bread. Mmmmmmm...... And forget the wafer thin mint at the end, I'll settle for a whiskas pouch!

Anita & Marco

23rd April 2006, 10:39 AM

Hi Hannah,

I really like your extensive posts on this subject. It can make a lot of things clear to other people - from like you said a bit of objective perspective. Think I am in a similar situation as you and also wondering how to get the life we would want to have here in NZ at the financial side.

Coming from The Netherlands it is also a bit different and we spent a lot more money on the whole visa process - include a consultant, all translations, two trips to London etc.

We are very happy that we decided to settle down in Wellington, but on the cost side you can compare it with New Plymouth, if not more expensive. While I was working part time - now, we are both working full time, which we knew would happen before we came here.

As I see it at this moment, when you have a lot of money with you, starting your life here and living a 'good life' financially is very easy. However, when you do not have a lot of money it is hard to find a decent house, if not impossible.

We will end up with a higher mortgage then we had in The Netherlands when we are going to buy - we stopped our search at the moment, because we think it is a crazy market right no - on the other hand, going on renting is losing money as well!! It is not an easy decision, especially not while I am absolutely not liking my job and need to go and find something else, or maybe even have to start my own business. Will need all our money for that instead.

But still, Wellington is a great place to live and we go out when we like to - have been to the Rolling Stones concert (bought tickets very cheap, just before start of the concert) have been to other events as well (some are for free). Go to the pub and sometimes out for dinner (not as much as we would like to). And yes, we drink a wine and a beer if we like to.

Life is not bad at all around here!!!!!!

Anita

23rd April 2006, 11:26 AM

By the way, all, NZ's 'North & South' magazine did an article recently the premise of which was that a family living on $38,000 a year is only -- after, I suppose, tax considerations, etc. -- about $2000 worse off than a family on $60,000.

Not quite sure which issue it was in, if you're interested, but we found it quite high on the pile of N&S back issues at the local library.

Anyway, I read quite a bit of the feature as we waited for the rain to stop :o . They focussed on two actual families, the lower-earning one being a maitre d', the sole income earner, on $40K with his wife and two young children. Some interesting budgetary comments: e.g., they managed to make do for petrol and groceries on $120 per week but "have a lot of casseroles"! (Good for them: pretty healthy). I also remember that they rent at the moment, paying $250 pw. I think the husband had a business setback a while ago which ISTR put them back a bit in terms of savings. May be wrong, but I think that was the idea.
The higher-earning family say they can afford things like ballet class ( :clap ... sorry, just a quick plug for my missus' work) for their daughter and a couple of supermarket-special wines each weekend.

Amongst other things it got me thinking about the whole personal-expenditure theme. Some days I think we're very prudent: haven't been to the pub or restaurant in months; have one car; have no expensive hobbies; don't have an awful lot on the credit card; are buying a house (not that renting was irresponsible in the least, but I just mean that the bank obviously thinks we're fiscally okay in at least a sense!)...
Other days I feel, re. our spends, a bit like Hamlet with his

"I am myself indifferent honest, but yet I could accuse myself of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me".

... in the sense that when I look on our online bank statement I see a whole string of nickel-and-dime stuff like $20 for bits and bobs at The Warehouse here, $8 for a family pot of tea there, $11 for a box of beers...

Anyway, I hope I'm not alone in this occasional ambivalence! :laugh

Cheers for all the great reading.

jess

23rd April 2006, 11:49 AM

Anita, you are making me miss Welly!! Well... driving in today for something so that's ok. :)

Hannah, thanks for the detailed posts. I'm thinking of our accounting compared to yours, and I think the big difference is kids. Having kids would make our expenses so much higher here! With school fees and all the rest it makes an enormous difference. Alhough we wanted to live near the city, we took a rental for the time being in the country for $230/week. It's larger than anything we looked at near Welly. A cute house by the sea, but it would probably be a bad area if we had to consider schools for children.

On a complete side note, we did do car insurance when we bought the car (from State Ins.), and it was $450 for the year with full coverage, roadside assistance, and the windscreen covered. There's no deductible unless I am at fault or the cuprit is unknown, in which case it would be $375. I set it up over the phone from the car place, and he just asked how long we'd been driving and whether we had had accidents in the last 5 years - we had not. Didn't want to see anything, and we were covered when we drove off the lot. (I'm a notoriously dimwitted driver, so that's a good thing).

Groceries - I've been shopping at New World - haven't gotten to the Pak N Sav in Paraparam yet.
As I said earlier Ramen, or Indomie Mie Gore it's called, is 43 cents per pack, and I really like it.
Pam's peanut butter - 1.85 (about a 12 oz jar)
Pam's Mayo - 2.55 (about a 12 oz jar)
Anchor Butter 500 gr - 1.99 (equiv. of 4 US sticks)
6 round sandwich rolls - 2.69
1 avacado - $2.49
Tomatoes 750 gr - $2.49 (a small bag of 7 med. size tomatoes)
Diet Coke 1.5 litre bottle - $1.99 (cans are Really expensive though)
Pkg feta cheese 200 gr - $3.49
Pam's Tuna Fish (the standard med size can) - .99 cents
Krispa Chips (it's a little smaller than the standard US bag) - 1.78
Vanilla Custard in a pint carton (eww, but OH loves it straight from the carton for dessert) - $2.89
3 Kumara - almost 1 kg - $3.85
1 red pepper (called capsicum here) about 0.2 kg - $1.90
Sour Cream 250 gr - $1.59
6 brown eggs - $1.91
9 meters aluminum foil - $2.99
Chocolate fudge brownie mix with icing - $3.99

Bought sugar at The Warehouse - 1 kg (2.2 lbs) for $1.55
5 scour sponges for $1.99

At Noel Leeming our W hirlpool fridge was $750, and that was on the cheap end. Our microwave was $199, also on the cheap end. We checked other stores, but $750 seemed to be the cheap fridge price everywhere.

Smiler

23rd April 2006, 12:06 PM

Hannah Brilliant posts but remind me not to come to dinner with you. :laugh:laugh

Great thread too. My/our two pennyworth.

We came here from UK with our credit cards and a few cash $$ to get us through the first weeks. We rented in the UK and we have a few savings still in the UK but not enough to buy here without a mortage. Depending on house area etc, but certainly not here in Welly.

OH is on good salary but he is working very long days. The area we work in is very immature here and indeed world wide, so we took a risk in setting up our own business, 3 years ago in UK. I worked full time until May last year and then the business had to support 2 of us until we came out here. I take a smaller wage from the company than I did in the UK but we are growing slowly and things are looking good. OH works every evening and all weekend for us too.

Moving cost us more than expected due to the speed in which we came out as it meant we had no time left to sell the things we hadn't planned on bringing. GBP4,600 for a 40 footer and $1600 in Maf and rip off fees from NZVL.:mad: A rental car til ours got here $2700.

We set up home with the basics here until our stuff arrived.
About $500 in the Warehouse on pots etc.
$1800 on a new lounge suite
$1200 on a whole new bed and bedroom furniture,
huge Teac TV $400 all in the sales.
$450 on a Panasonic stainless steel microwave
$40 for a crap iron which went in the bin after 4 months and
$60 for a great all singing dancing one in the Briscoes 50% sale

Everything else from TradeMe,
Fab Freedom furniture desk $200,
$500 for a new ish spare bed and mattress
coffee table $25 (it's new and would be around $500 in shops).
$200 for company registration
$1000 for some NZ advice from our new accountant here.

We don't smoke and drink at home normally. I don't buy $20 bottles of wine as the $7-10 stuff here is great. I spend a lot less in petrol and OH bikes to work, no parking fees and $15 in petrol. Our rent is very high, it is a fab place and has gone some way in making me more settled and comfortable in my working day. I use my credit card all the time to accumulate Flybuys and pay it off in full every month.

It was tough until OH's salary started but because of some agency mess up he went for 2 months without salary. :wah Our standard of living is pretty much equal to the UK but unless I knuckle down to serious budgeting we'll have no chance of saving here. We have just transferred our main pensions to NZ pension funds and OH is adding to his through his bank pension and i'm adding to mine in little lump sums soon.

However ours is a long term plan, one that we made our commitment to when we complied our business plan in the UK 3.5 years ago, before we seriously considered NZ.

Yes it is tough now and I know the back of OH's head more than the front at the mo since I see him at his desk working hard, but we hope that in a few years this will change. He has a plan to continue his job for 2 years and then we both hope to be working together again for our business. We have no debt here or in UK and our company is in the black.

I hope I haven't rambled too much.

Hannah

23rd April 2006, 12:22 PM

Deborah - don't worry. You haven't rambled as much as me. I'm rambling a lot lately (and none of it involves walking in the woods with the 'active elderly'!)

Matt, yes I know about the ambivalence you mention. One minute I think I'm a mean match for Scrooge and could teach the old miser a trick or two. Then I realise I've lost $200 a week since I've been here and can't account for most of it. I treat myself to the odd cup of tea and cake in a cafe (my weakness) - something I would never have done several years ago when I was even meaner than I am now. My hubby's so tight he'd walk into a cafe with a flask - so I guess it must me me doing all the spending. Some days I think I'm a wasteful sinner because I've paid for lunch in the work canteen, but then I cheer myself up with the fact that I asked for water (Free Tap Water NOT Mineral Water) to avoid paying $2.50 for a fruit juice and Stingy, Mean Halo goes back over my head until the next time...

Jess - yep, kids cost a lot. My son loves a bargain - adores the Warehouse and the $2 shop. Often heard singing quietly in his bedroom the theme tune for the Warehouse advert. He hyperventilates if he sees the Warehouse logo. However, when not buying packs of cheap batteries in the Warehouse (his only weakness) he swims (a lot), plays football, judo, surf club etc. and they all add up. Being so sporty he eats a lot (healthy food I'm pleased to say - but that costs more than junk food). My daughter (7 yrs) only wants to knock at her friends houses and play mums and dads so she's a cheap runner at the moment. Of course if I had no children I'd be so much more well of financially (but not so well of in my heart - which, funny enough, brings us back to the 'wealth is in your heart' comments of page 1 !!!!!!!)