[tottefan]

Now here's a turn up for the books Totte - I agree with you 100% on the above !!!!

You're not the only one who often disagrees with me, Diny. :yes I'm afraid I have a tendency to talk rubbish, especially when I have had a fair bit to drink. Yesterday was one such occasion, I'm afraid.

:D


Tottefan.

[Diny]

You're not the only one who often disagrees with me, Diny. :yes I'm afraid I have a tendency to talk rubbish, especially when I have had a fair bit to drink. Yesterday was one such occasion, I'm afraid.

:D


Tottefan.

LOL !!! No worries at all. One of the problems with 'chatting' on a forum, all you read are the words. Without the vocal expressions they can sometimes take on a very different tone in which they are intended.

Hey - I'm 43 and call my Mum & Dad every day (thanks to Skype) and I tell them every day that I love them - it's just natural to us.

Diny

[Kim39]

I remember when my eldest was 9 years old and she told one of her "friends" to f off, her friend duly knocked on the door to snitch, Nicola was brought in and asked if she had said it, she eventually owned up, was then told to go upstairs and into the bathroom, were I told her to rinse her mouth out with water, I then gave her a bar of soap and made her wash her mouth out, when the youngest who was 4 at the time, said it a couple of days later, the same happened to her, I can honestly say I havenever heard either of them say the word again. Regarding knowing about sexual things, I must admit my eldest has known the full extent of the birds and bees since she was 10 years old, after having taken her to the Dr's regarding stomach pains, was told that she was getting ready to start her periods, I took her home and explained everything to her, what was happening to her body and what was going to happen, and when it did a couple of weeks later, which as she said, because I had prepared her, took it all in her stride, yes at the grand age of 10 my daughter was no longer a "little girl" but a person who was capable of having children herself, I wanted her to be aware of what her body was now capable of, no use shutting the stabledoor once the horse has bolted, and because as much as we don't like to admit it, youngsters are more sexually active younger now, and also because I didn't want her to find out through playground talk, which is how I found out things, and most of it was false.
I also tell my children if they don't know what a word means then don't use it, if after that they then ask, I try and be as honest as I can in answering. But that doesn't mean that I am right as some people don't feel comfortable about talking openly about sex with their children, Kim is one of them. But it does mean that they are both aware of what is appropriate to talk about and say and what isn't. Sorry if I have rattled on.:o

Elaine (Kim 39 OH)

[Moorf]

Just wanted to say that my 17 year old son says that nothing upsets him more than the thought that he's disappointed me and his Dad.



I'm 38 and I still think like that!! Having said that, I'm from a very loving family but had a strict upbringing - I can still remember "that look" that my Dad gave me that frightened me to death - he didn't have to say or do anything except "that look" !! I see him do it to my neices and they have as much respect for him as I still do. Having said that, it certainly didn't stop me being a complete rebel, been there, done that, got the ticket etc etc, although the over-riding "fear" was that my parents, if they found out, would be devasted - since then I've had frank discussions about my wayward ways with.. yep.. my parents (who, of course, knew it all anyway :roll ).... eyes in the back of their heads and all that...

I don't envy parents at all these days......

[K&CS]

I don't think anyone could blame Diny for being upset at hearing her child use the word 'shagging'. If my 8 year old came out with that, I too would be mortified. I must be naive because I've never heard a child of that age using that word (or anything similar). I think there can be no doubt that they must have heard it at school. No kid just comes out with it - someone has to teach them!!

I'm sure a lot of bad language at this age comes from parents letting their children watch inappropriate television. A couple of years ago, I was asked by my godson's parents if we would get him (then aged 10) the video of '2 pints of lager and a packet of crisps' for christmas. I refused, as I thought it was far too old for a 10 year old but she was very disappointed and said he loved it and thought I was being ridiculous. There are lots of parents who let their kids watch things like this, including 'Big Brother'. I'm glad the tv's rubbish out here - the girls hardly ever watch it now.

We have to be careful about attributing the breakdown of the family unit to everything that is wrong with today's children. A couple of my friends have recently found themselves as single parents through no fault of their own (husbands deciding that they could have more fun without being tied down to a life of looking after kids and being married...). They are both doing a very good job in difficult circumstances at bringing their children up - unfortunately break ups are a fact of life - I think the issue is how the parents deal with the break up and not use the kids as piggy in the middle rather than the fact that the relationship has broken down.

Tottefan, you are absolutely right - there are parents out there who are far more interested in material things than in the welfare of their kids. It's a pity you don't have to take an exam before you have kids - then again, would any of us actually pass??

Oh, and for the record, banning smacking would make absolutely no difference in reducing child abuse (I know no-one on here has said that it would, but that has been bandied about in the UK for a while now). Those of us who do give the occasional 'tap' are certainly not committing child abuse and if it was banned then we would stop doing so. People who commit child abuse are not operating within the law anyway and would carry on in the way they have been.

And to get back to the point, I haven't really seen any difference here with regard to kids swearing. The kids at their school in the UK didn't swear (in front of adults anyway),but I haven't noticed any of the kids here using bad language either. That's probably a pleasure in store for me as they get older!

[Diny]

Very interesting reading - my word we do discuss some diverse subjects on this forum.

Parenting is not easy - regardless of the age of your kids. I still have the same respect for my parents now as I ever had, only now I can understand their rules and regulations from an adult point of view.

Reminds me of something funny that happened when I was visiting my parents back in the UK a couple of weeks ago. We had just finished a meal and I asked my Mum 'can I get down from the table please Mum' ......... I'm 43 for gods sake !!!!!

Moorf - it must be something about dads, mine had 'the look' too .... and yeah - he still has it. Also, sounds strange but the less my Dad said the deeper in trouble you were. If he was mildly irritated he would tell you so, if you'd REALLY done something wrong you got the silence coupled with the look ....... Oh God that was bad !!!!!

I also agree with Elaine about telling kids the facts. If my boys ask I tell them. I let them know what is what, I use the correct words, they know what is acceptable and what isn't. I too agree with telling them in a correct manner, I hate the fact that they pick snippets of info up from the playground and then apply this limited knowledge with the use of words like 'shagging'.

I guess playground talk has been around as long as playgrounds themselves. We can't change what kids talk about, but we can moderate it as mush as possible. That's what being a parent is all about.

Diny

[Moorf]

the less my Dad said the deeper in trouble you were.

Ooooh yes!! So true!!

[Moorf]

'can I get down from the table please Mum'

Here too!! We still excuse ourselves from the table at home! I remember visiting friends and boyfriends houses and being horrified that they'd just finish and leave the table! :uhoh As a family we did, and still do, spend ages around the dinner table chatting, debating, arguing, getting "that look" for leaving the fat :laugh etc etc. Now that I do miss (not the fat, the chat) .... but my parents are here for a month in Dec so not long :nice1

[Diny]

As a family we did, and still do, spend ages around the dinner table chatting, debating, arguing,

Hell yeah. When we were kids, and now with kids of our own, the days are spent hurtling around in different directions doing a hundred different things. But the rule is that we all sit down around the table together for our evening meal. Even when Mark is away for weeks on end we still do it. At mum & dads these days, if the immediate family gather for Sunday lunch (i.e my parents, siblings, neices and nephews and us, should we be there) there's 18 of us around the table.

As you know, my folks came out for 2 months at Christmas, it was great. You make sure you enjoy every moment of it, as I'm sure you will.

Diny

[Tate6]

Well I guess I am in a reasonable position to be able to comment on this.
We have been here 10 years - our boys were 7 and 4 when we came.


I know for a fact that within two weeks of us arriving here all that time ago we had our "kids" back.
No pressure from peers.
No TVs or Vids in their bedrooms (or need for them)

Just a happy couple of kids who enoyed outdoor sports etc

10 years on......

Two happy boys going through college - are doing "OK" at school - middle of the road kids. no problems with dr ugs/drink (17 and 14 and the oldest is just starting to have the odd can!) Great mates Great opps for sport and leisure.

Now the downside.........

We have no support - family wise.
We HAVE made amazing fantasic friends who have BEEN like family to us - but it would have been awesome to have had my mum/dad/brother/uncle here to give me a hand sometimes.

It has been very very hard. An uphill struggle.
I am the one who has struggled - not them and not hubby.
Not having a family member to babysit - (cost cost cost) sounds pathetic but over 8 years it mounts up if you need a night out.
A night away from them? Forget it.
We've had one night like that in 10 years.

That said - we did it for them and they have got what we wanted for them.
What the future holds? Who knows.

The advantage of all of that though is - we are an incredibly close family unit.
The boys adore their wee kiwi sister - dote on her actually.
We are there for each other.

I know one thing - I'd rather have them here than there. No doubt at all about that.

The boys and us have just become citizens.
It was the ultimate dream to us........and just another day to them.
They still have NO idea what we did..........for them.
It's just their "life" to them.
Which is as it should be.

One day - when they have their own wee kiwi kids running around in their back yard - barefoot and with a snarler in their hand - they will realise.

:nice1

WOW!! Just read this thread and THAT is why we want to do this!! Maybe me more than my hubby. http://bestsmileys.com/frustrated/9.gif

So perfectly said, Carol!! http://bestsmileys.com/clapping/1.gif

And it made me cry too!!http://bestsmileys.com/crying/2.gif

Terry

[Tate6]

That said, I have 2 boys, 16 and 14. And in the last year, their mouths!! I think they were "experimenting" with using foul language before, but not within earshot. But now, holly cow!! Now, my hubby and I don't use the best language all the time either, but my 16 year old has such an attitude!! Only with us, however, as everyone I talk to thinks he is just so respectful! I guess if I had to choose, I would rather he get lippy with us than in public.
My 2 girls, 6 and 3, tell them about their mouths all the time!

Maybe it is part of the "hormones" and age and "testing". I hope!!
And we do know that there is no Utopia that will magically make our children grow up perfect, but hoping alot of the great things about living in NZ will help. And hope we do a good enough job at home, that the negative things will be left at the wayside.

And I can attest to the fact that even since my boys were little, parenting has become more difficult!!
Good Luck to all of us!!

Terry

[Diny]

Great that this thread has been brought to the fore again. We were just discussing today how vibrant and alive our nieces and nephews here in the UK seem. Being away from them for a year and a half kind of made us forget what alot of the 'youngsters' over here are actually like. All too often we hear the down side and conveniently forget that there are still a massive amount of decent, well adjusted, polite, intelligent etc people (of all ages) here in the UK (and everywhere else in the world). It's only natural to focus on the negative to help justify our reasons for moving (and I include myself in this category), but from what I've been whitnessing over the last month here in the UK I still can't see that one country is superior to the other. Each has it's positive points and each has it's negatives and I truely believe that neither country (NZ or UK) will cause our children to either thrive or fail.

Diny

[Bruckner]

Loved your post Diny.

Emily

[wiki]

That's a truly interesting thread to read, so I'm glad it was resurrected.

One of the reasons my OH wants to come to NZ is that our up-bringings were so different and we are pretty much complete opposites on our outlook for life (but saying that we get on incredibly well!)

She was always told she must make her parents proud.

She had big expectations on her re education, career and family.

I was always told I should do myself proud.

I wasn't pushed into anything and no one told me I ruining my life when I chose not to do a degree, or announced at 22 that I was upping sticks to the UK. As long as I was "happy, secure to the extent I wanted to be secure, and not hurting any one" I could chose my own destiny.

And you know what? It wasn't the countries we grew up in that made us so different, it was the support group we had around us and what they taught us about what we should see as important.

Having said that, I said to the couple of serious boyfriends I had in the UK when talk of marriage and kids came up that there was no way I would consider having my kids grow up in the UK.

I think being born or raised a Kiwi gives a real sense of independence and uniqueness that holds you in good stead no matter what you choose to do in life.

A sweeping generalisation, I know, but I take a lot of my self-worth and courage from coming from such a great wee place. Then again - that's probably thanks to my parents and how they raised me too!

[Ana&Steve]

And you know what? It wasn't the countries we grew up in that made us so different, it was the support group we had around us and what they taught us about what we should see as important.
Very point point, it made me think. :)
Ana

[Diny]

I think being born or raised a Kiwi gives a real sense of independence and uniqueness that holds you in good stead no matter what you choose to do in life.

A sweeping generalisation, I know, but I take a lot of my self-worth and courage from coming from such a great wee place. Then again - that's probably thanks to my parents and how they raised me too!


I can agree with this comment but from the side of being born in the UK. I too have a strong sense of independence and uniqueness being born a Brit and fully agree that it's prob more to do with my parents than where I was actually born.

I don't think these feelings are set aside for Kiwis only.

Diny

[Ana&Steve]

Very point point, it made me think. :)
Ana
sorry, that was supposed to read: "Very good point" :o
Ana

[willowshouse]

If you're trying to escape bad language I'm not sure NZ is the place to be ..
since we arrived just 2 months ago I have been very surprised at the acceptable language here - b*ll*cks, t*ts, p*ss, b*st*rd and sh*t are all frequent flyers on the radio and in general conversation.

My 7 year old recently came home singing a vile spin-off christmas song with no idea that what she was singing was anything other than just funny.

In fact, if I had just one complaint about NZ that would be it. Don't get me wrong, I can swear with the best of them - but there's a time and a place and that seems to be anytime and anywhere in NZ.

He-ho .. you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Dawn

[Diny]

If you're trying to escape bad language I'm not sure NZ is the place to be ..
since we arrived just 2 months ago I have been very surprised at the acceptable language here - b*ll*cks, t*ts, p*ss, b*st*rd and sh*t are all frequent flyers on the radio and in general conversation.

My 7 year old recently came home singing a vile spin-off christmas song with no idea that what she was singing was anything other than just funny.

In fact, if I had just one complaint about NZ that would be it. Don't get me wrong, I can swear with the best of them - but there's a time and a place and that seems to be anytime and anywhere in NZ.

He-ho .. you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Dawn

Couldn't agree more. Don't quite know where it is (on the forum) but I posted comments along these lines many many months ago. I too (soon after getting here) realised that the language used here in NZ (by just about everybody) is at times shocking. My kids lost their innocence within about a fortnight of starting school here. Their language took several turns for the worse very quickly .... and as for their knowledge of 'undesireable' subjects, since living in NZ they could write a book !!!!!

But you're right ... you pays your money etc etc.

Diny

[stu70]

I am very intrigued by the observation that the language in NZ is not necessarily most pleasing to the ears. Is it due to the frontier mentality coupled with the fact that it is such remote place that the impact of other civilizations is not felt at the same level in NZ as perhaps Europe , North America etc.? Remember it used to be "kosher" just a few years ago to smoke publicly and more so in the movies and stuff. But now it is really looked upon atleast here in North America. So it is possible that any changes to societal norms that hit western world do not quite make it to NZ and hence the tolerance toward foul language in public media. Your thoughts...

[Ana&Steve]

We spent a good deal of time in NZ with a Scottish guy who colored the air blue (I thought it was funny, as it sounded new to me, and he always got his point across), so the few F-bombs we heard as we drove around didn't effect us much. It might be a stereotypical American thing, but I really enjoy hearing cussing in other accents :o .
PS, no offense to anyone Scottish, he just happened to be! :D
Ana

[Carol]

Scots?
Using bad language?????


never!
;) :exit :D

[barryp]

Within hours of starting my job here in Welly, I heard more vulgarity than I would have heard in a month at a similar organisation in the USA. Perhaps in time I will grow weary of it, but for now it's refreshing. None of it is hostile, racist, etc.

(I am also very pleased that linguistic censorship of TV and radio programmes is minimal here. USA-style edits are disruptive and offend me more than the words they replace, imo.)

[stu70]

Within hours of starting my job here in Welly, I heard more vulgarity than I would have heard in a month at a similar organisation in the USA. Perhaps in time I will grow weary of it, but for now it's refreshing. None of it is hostile, racist, etc.

(I am also very pleased that linguistic censorship of TV and radio programmes is minimal here. USA-style edits are disruptive and offend me more than the words they replace, imo.)
I am curious really, how would people get away with swearing in public? I mean you must have ladies working in offices. Don't they feel offended by profanities? I am trying to picture that happening here in Canada and know the obvious outcome. :laugh

[pieeater]

Some of the kiwi women I've met in the workplace are real foulmouths.If it wasn't for the fact that they can use a chainsaw,drive a digger and knock a fencepost in I don't think that I would have any repect for them at all.

[stu70]

Some of the kiwi women I've met in the workplace are real foulmouths.If it wasn't for the fact that they can use a chainsaw,drive a digger and knock a fencepost in I don't think that I would have any repect for them at all.
That will make two of us with hearts full of respect for'em. Fear is the best tablet to cure disrespect and who would want to mess with "ladies" who can do all that :laugh

[pieeater]

Not me for sure! Drove past one cutie the other day.She was swinging a HUGE axe overhead in her front yard splitting logs.Man it was a stunning sight.

[migratory birds]

Diny wrote "...there has been no magical step towards anything 'better' since we moved here - but saying that there's not been any step backwards either (apart of course my kids education but that's a different thread altogether)."

Diny,

Maybe you address this further on in this thread but what do you mean by the "no steps backwards apart from your kids education" comment?

I've an 8yr old whose future I'm considering in this move and would like to hear more about your experience with the education component in NZ.

[Tentun]

Hi everyone

I'm new to this forum but have really enjoyed reading everyones views.

My son is only 16 months now and we still live in the UK but for ages now myself and my husband have been dying to get out of the 'rat race'.

We grew up in South Africa and had what we think was a great childhood, outdoors, sports, playing outside, hot lazy summer days on the beach. We would love for our son to have that same childhood but going back to South Africa isn't what we want to do as we fear for the crime in that country which is relatively high compared to most other countries in the world and we feel the country is too unstable at this point and we don't know what future our son will have there so we have looking in New Zealand and submitted an EOI.

I don't have rose-tinted glasses and I know there will still be bad things like there are everywhere but I hope to discover a bit of what we had as a child and offer that to my son. I believe by doing this he will get the opportunity to be a child for longer instead of having to grow up too quickly as we feel the kids in the UK do. We also feel that he will then be able to make his own choice to move to wherever he wants to in the world but will have at least had a good grounding from which to build on.

Just my views, hope they help.
Tentun

[willsken]

We have only been here 3 weeks and already the boys have so much more freedom than in the UK. Fantastic for them and us. :nice1

[Diny]

Maybe you address this further on in this thread but what do you mean by the "no steps backwards apart from your kids education" comment?

I've an 8yr old whose future I'm considering in this move and would like to hear more about your experience with the education component in NZ.

I'll send you a PM - I'll get strung up if I discuss this again on the open forum.

Diny

[gil]

I'll send you a PM - I'll get strung up if I discuss this again on the open forum.

Diny

I must say I'be never really read the threads about NZ education being "worse" than UK's so can't comment. So far, we have no reason to believe that it is actually "worse". We have seen things here that we believe are "better" than we have experienced in UK and I will be happy to post further down the line, especailly as my eldest here (one older daughter back in UK) is doing GCSEs this year. We have seen our kids doing more sport, which we feel is good, as the "good" school they came from in UK wouldn't, for example, let kids bring footballs to use at playtime for "health and safety " reasons, So ours knew a bit about the rules/theory of rugby, but had never played touch rugby in school. They learned quick though!

Our youngest coming, as I said, from a "good" UK school in an affluent area was stretched and challenged when she joined NZ school for the last 3 weeks of term 4. It made her work for those weeks when we had thought she would be "eased" in and it was good for her as she is very competitive and really rose to the challenge. We may be lucky, and I will psot progress, but we have been very impressed so far.

We have 4 children aged 18, 15, 10 and 9 and I have been a parent governor at 2 primary schools in Cardiff for the last 13 years,so we do have a bit of experience of different stages and schools, albeit only in the Cardiff area.

I suppose it depends on what you value in terms of education. Having attended a "hothouse" school where results were everything and now working in management development and training, my view of education has changed and I have arrived at the belief that school grades ain't the be all and end all.

Not meaning to be controversial or offensive,
Gil

[Diny]

Not meaning to be controversial or offensive,
Gil


You're not being at all controversial or offensive. I presume everybody on this forum speaks from their own personal experience, therefore there can be no right or wrong - only differing opinions.

When you say "I suppose it depends on what you value in terms of education" I think you've hit the nail directly on the head. I'm extremely old school (excuse the pun) in my 'values' which doesn't make me right and you wrong or vice versa.

One thing I will say is that school 'life' here in NZ is 2nd to none. School 'work' ..... well ....... we won't go there again.

Diny

[Malay-Coopers]

When does schooling start in NZ? We are moving to Wellington in April '07 with our four year old daughter. In the US she is in pre-school and would be starting kindergarten in Septemeber if we stayed.

Also the school year is January - December with two 6 week breaks correct?

[Diny]

Also the school year is January - December with two 6 week breaks correct?


The school year does go from Jan - Dec but not with 2, 6 week breaks.

There is the long summer holiday (happening at the moment) which start around 18th - 20th December, they go back on 7th Feb.

Then there is 2 weeks at Easter. 2 weeks in July and 2 weeks around September-ish.

I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure each term is approx 9 weeks long.

Diny

[K&CS]

I think the terms work out at around 10 weeks each although the first two terms this year will be slightly under then over as easter is early-ish (6 April). This year the summer holiday is 7 weeks which has seemed like an eternity, I must say, although to Americans that must seem nothing. I was really shocked when an American friend told me that in the States, they finish in June and have three months off!!

Re the quality of schooling, I'm far from being an expert. I must say they work hard and the children are enthusiastic etc. I think it's also true to say that academically, they are slightly behind kids in the UK (can't speak for any other country), although they are gaining in confidence tremdendously and they understand a lot of practical things that they didn't before. They have also learned to argue very articulately lol! As far as I'm aware, 16 year olds here are at pretty much the same level as 16 year olds in the UK - I think they tend to catch up more at high school. I think it is really only an issue if you're planning on returning to the UK, when you might find your kids have slipped behind a bit.

Of course there are good schools and bad schools everywhere, but I'm fairly pleased with ours.

[kiwidebs]

I read a report a while back on some international tests that had been done (wish I could remember where I saw it) and, I think, the results showed that NZ kids were behind British kids academically when they start high school, but do as well as British kids by the end of high school. I guess it's a case of a different route but the same destination???

Personally, I was worried about primary schools where we lived in London - our nearest one wasn't great but the one I wanted Gem to get into was fabulous and I would've been as happy for her to be there as the wonderful school she's in here! However, despite it only being 2/3 of a mile away there was no guarantee she would've got in.

I really like our local primary school and, although she's only had a couple of months there, Gemma is really happy and keen to learn - which makes me a happy Mum!!
And I love all the wonderful adventure playgrounds in our local area - so much nicer than the grafittied (is there such a word) non-adventurous playgrounds local to us in London!

Debs

[nippa&pippa]

When does schooling start in NZ? We are moving to Wellington in April '07 with our four year old daughter. In the US she is in pre-school and would be starting kindergarten in Septemeber if we stayed.


This been covered before, here http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9249

My son will be four in july and he is at local kindegarten, he love it so much, that he love it better than UK's preschool.. that what he told me.