[carina]

Hi everyone

I am new to the forum- still at the research stage at present. What are the future prospects for children in NZ ? I would like to get peoples opinions on this subject- if anyone would like to comment ?

Thanks a lot

Carina

[katandbob]

:confused: what do you mean exactly...education, jobs, training?

what age are the children.....

oh and :raebanana :raebanana WELCOME TO THE FORUM ;)

Kat

[Moorf]

Welcome to the forum Carina :nice1

Can't help on this particular subject but there are plenty here who can.

Moorf

[Smiler]

Hi Carina

I can't help with the children bit either, but wanted to say welcome to the forum. :clap:clap

[carina]

Hi Moorf

I read your web page with great interest- seems like a good life out there. I think your comments about the UK are spot on - and its only getting worse. Traffic jams,high crime rates, yob culture- got to get out this place !!!

Carina

[willsken]

Hi Moorf

got to get out this place !!!

Carina

That's exactly why we are off! :yes

We are hoping for a better life for the boys and even if we only manage to buy a few years it will be better than nothing!

[ElizabethD]

I've been a lurker on this forum for a long time. We're hoping to arrive in NZ by the end of our summer. We still have not found jobs I just wanted you to know that my two children, aged 7 and 10 are the whole reason we have worked these past two years to get to NZ.
We have a pretty good life here in the US--Washington State to be more precise. I live on a beautiful island a short ferry ride from Seattle. I live 1 mile from a job where I am the boss, make decent money and work from 6-2 so that my children are never without me. the school district is the finest in the state. Am I an ingrate? many people would think so--but they are only looking superficially.

I don't want the kids to grow up in this enviroment where political leaders and national policy are running amok because the people are all so busy working trying to pay the bills on all their "stuff" they feel they don't have the energy to create a voice of genuine dissent. I want to protect them from the social engineering that is going on with "No child left behind" I want them to learn that things don't make people happy--being part of something will do that. Most of all, I want to protect them from all the ills that are an inherent part of life in American society. I'm not confident that America can ever bounce back from the depths it has reached under this administration. if I'm looking toward the kid's future--I can't look here with confidence. I need a young country with lofty ideas. I need hope. How's that for a page from my diary?

[veronica]

I don't have children here but have two grown up kids, one in Auckland and one in the UK. I would say that while kids are kids wherever they are there doesn't seem to be the same peer pressure here in the children I have had contact with. I can't answer for the school system except to say that children who are encouraged and are reasonably bright should do well wherever. There certainly seems to be a big emphasis on outdoor life and sport here which has to be healthy and happy kids are usually successful ones.

In the long term ...... bear in mind NZ is a small island and may not offer all the opportunities that some of the European/american unis/workforces have.
but what do you want for your kids, if you want them to be high flyers and movers and shakers then maybe you have to think perhaps NZ isn't the place for you/them. If you want happy successful kids who can perhaps be 'big fish in a small pond' they have that chance here.

the other thing to keep in mind whether you stay in your home country or get over here, your kids are going to get to a stage where they will do their own thing, and if you decide to stay at home for them there is a fair chance, in the perverse way of kids, that they will decide to go and live somewhere else as adults, if you come over here then there is a fair chance that they will decide to go 'home' or to Australia etc to live.

look at the stage of their lives they are in at the moment and decide what would be best for them now, the future is a law into itself.

[Toronto_Kiwi]

I'll try to contribute something useful (stuck at work waiting for IT process to finish for fiscal year end...)
History of my cousins' NZ lives in parallel with mine (they're in their mid to late 30s now, I'm younger).
1st set of cousins: Auckland lawyer father, parents stayed together. All three graduated from law school and left NZ to work in UK / South Africa. Two have returned (so far) and now have families in Auckland.
2nd set of cousins: mother did clerical work, family had small farm in addition to house in Wellington, parents divorced when youngest kid was 16. All 3 kids finished college, middle daughter moved to Australia, youngest (son) has own business in Auckland, eldest daughter recently lost accounting job but is relocating with family to Auckland.
Me (grew up in Canada): lower middle class divorced parents. Graduated from college. Currently work in IT.
Would my life have been better if my dad had taken the family back to NZ instead of staying in Canada? Probably about the same although like my cousins (and my Dad before them) I might have headed abroad after college for more diverse experiences.

[StevieD]

Very interesting views. It is interesting to ready people's comments on this matter.
Carina - welcome to the forum! My kids are 8 and 10, and we want out of the UK rat race. Not saying NZ is the answer to all our ills, but we are willing to give it a good chance. Life is what you make of it, wherever you may be. But UK has gone stale for us, it is overcrowded and polluted, so we feel the time is right to move. Wonder where u are??

ElizabethD - welcome to the forum - don't think we are related :laugh All my US rellies are in Arizona, Florida and California. But I know where you are pitching from re the political situation in US, it is quite unnerving, especially the foreign policy which is on very dangerous ground in the middle east. All we can do is go with our hearts and make the most of our lives in the best way we can. If the US is anything like the UK, and I'm pretty sure it is, then you are sick of the materialistic nature of things, the greed factor and the 'keeping up with the Jone's ' attitude, the "get in to debt cause I want it and need it now" attitude that I have managed to overcome, and want my children to be removed from.

I look forward to reading your posts :)

StevieD

[carina]

Hi StevieD

Just wanted to send my congratulations :raebanana :raebanana :raebanana
I have been reading some of your posts with great interest, they are very helpful. Best of luck to you and your family. I'm hoping we will be in NZ in the not to distant future, but can see it will be a long process !
You wondered were we where in the UK- well its Leicesteshire, which I suppose compared to London and other big cities is not too bad- but you can't help wondering what it will be like in another 10 years- we feel we owe it to our children to make the move now why they are young. I look forward to reading you posts.

Cheers :cheers
Carina

[Carol]

Well I guess I am in a reasonable position to be able to comment on this.
We have been here 10 years - our boys were 7 and 4 when we came.


I know for a fact that within two weeks of us arriving here all that time ago we had our "kids" back.
No pressure from peers.
No TVs or Vids in their bedrooms (or need for them)

Just a happy couple of kids who enoyed outdoor sports etc

10 years on......

Two happy boys going through college - are doing "OK" at school - middle of the road kids. no problems with dr ugs/drink (17 and 14 and the oldest is just starting to have the odd can!) Great mates Great opps for sport and leisure.

Now the downside.........

We have no support - family wise.
We HAVE made amazing fantasic friends who have BEEN like family to us - but it would have been awesome to have had my mum/dad/brother/uncle here to give me a hand sometimes.

It has been very very hard. An uphill struggle.
I am the one who has struggled - not them and not hubby.
Not having a family member to babysit - (cost cost cost) sounds pathetic but over 8 years it mounts up if you need a night out.
A night away from them? Forget it.
We've had one night like that in 10 years.

That said - we did it for them and they have got what we wanted for them.
What the future holds? Who knows.

The advantage of all of that though is - we are an incredibly close family unit.
The boys adore their wee kiwi sister - dote on her actually.
We are there for each other.

I know one thing - I'd rather have them here than there. No doubt at all about that.

The boys and us have just become citizens.
It was the ultimate dream to us........and just another day to them.
They still have NO idea what we did..........for them.
It's just their "life" to them.
Which is as it should be.

One day - when they have their own wee kiwi kids running around in their back yard - barefoot and with a snarler in their hand - they will realise.

:nice1

[willsken]

Well I guess I am in a reasonable position to be able to comment on this.
We have been here 10 years - our boys were 7 and 4 when we came.


I know for a fact that within two weeks of us arriving here all that time ago we had our "kids" back.
No pressure from peers.
No TVs or Vids in their bedrooms (or need for them)

Just a happy couple of kids who enoyed outdoor sports etc

10 years on......

Two happy boys going through college - are doing "OK" at school - middle of the road kids. no problems with dr ugs/drink (17 and 14 and the oldest is just starting to have the odd can!) Great mates Great opps for sport and leisure.

Now the downside.........

We have no support - family wise.
We HAVE made amazing fantasic friends who have BEEN like family to us - but it would have been awesome to have had my mum/dad/brother/uncle here to give me a hand sometimes.

It has been very very hard. An uphill struggle.
I am the one who has struggled - not them and not hubby.
Not having a family member to babysit - (cost cost cost) sounds pathetic but over 8 years it mounts up if you need a night out.
A night away from them? Forget it.
We've had one night like that in 10 years.

That said - we did it for them and they have got what we wanted for them.
What the future holds? Who knows.

The advantage of all of that though is - we are an incredibly close family unit.
The boys adore their wee kiwi sister - dote on her actually.
We are there for each other.

I know one thing - I'd rather have them here than there. No doubt at all about that.

The boys and us have just become citizens.
It was the ultimate dream to us........and just another day to them.
They still have NO idea what we did..........for them.
It's just their "life" to them.
Which is as it should be.

One day - when they have their own wee kiwi kids running around in their back yard - barefoot and with a snarler in their hand - they will realise.

:nice1


Oh Carol, you just made me cry! :wah

What a lovely lovely post :yes

[carina]

Hi Carol
:)
Thanks for a lovely post - brought tears to my eyes too ! (glad I'm not the only one!) Its so good to hear from someone who's been through it all, and great that you have found fantastic friends ( as they say-you can choose your friends but not your family !)
All the best :nice1

Carina

[zardell]

The boys and us have just become citizens.
It was the ultimate dream to us........and just another day to them.
They still have NO idea what we did..........for them.
It's just their "life" to them.
Which is as it should be.

One day - when they have their own wee kiwi kids running around in their back yard - barefoot and with a snarler in their hand - they will realise.




:clap :clap :clap

What a wonderful post........well said Carol.

Julie

xx

[Marie P]

Brilliant post Carol ........my kids have no idea why I'm crying .

Marie x

[marcia]

Carol, that is such a wonderful post, and i really needed to read something like that right now (to spur me on to continue banging my head against this brick wall!!)

So my promise to the kids for their own tv's and dvd players when we get to NZ may be out of the window (ya hay!!)

They will probably still want those bikes though and no problems, they can have them if we ever achieve our dream!

(ignore me, being a moaning myrtle, having one of those 'is all this hassle really worth it days')

[Bubbles]

Thanks Carol,

I knew there was a reason for all this madness.
I just hope in time, mine can see and understand what this is all about. :yes

John

[StevieD]

Nice post Carol - is it just the women who are crying here? :wah :laugh

But I understand your sentiments exactly.

[willsken]

Nice post Carol - is it just the women who are crying here? :wah :laugh

But I understand your sentiments exactly.


I think it must be... Ian thought it was a lovely post, but his eyes were dry.
You hard old lot!!! :p

[Carol]

I've done my fair share of crying too - not today - but over the last few years.
I've never made a secret of the fact that I've sufferred badly from homesickness and even now - still do sometimes.
Usually when things aren't going well for whatever reason.

I remember having my handbag stolen in Auckland a few years ago - I just went to pieces.
Flying back to Wellington with no bag.......etc etc

Please remember that this is just MY experience.
Others have very different ones.

As an aside -
My oldest son has just started the discovery of "a social life"
So last night he was at a friend's house who was having a party....finishing "late"

*gulp*
*worried parents* *alcohol* *teenage...."happenings"* *d rugs* etc etc
For all of you with little kids - you've got it ALL to look forward to! ;)

So in the end I said I would pick him up ....I know it's not cool but hey.......get over it.

ANyway -
I set my alarm.....to wake me up at 1am!!!
Off I went to get him..
I picked him up - along with another girl who lives near us.

What made me laugh was - as he got in the car he said -
"I'm going to need a bucket"
Mum's heart sinks remembering the wild youth she had!

"I've just eaten 2L of Ice Cream while playing Twister" says son

Apparantly they are all learning "ballroom dancing" at school for the "Formal" dance in June.
THey were all outside at midnight doing the G ay Gordons on the lawn to Britney Spears.:nice1 :cheers
Oh yes - and I got the biggest hug when we got out the car for coming to get him........
Bless.....

[StevieD]

Now that is an image to make you laugh :laugh

Yes, we know it isn't all like that, but a nice story nonetheless.

[Smiler]

Carol & Kenny

Your kids are brilliant. :nice1 Great post too, thanks.


"I've just eaten 2L of Ice Cream while playing Twister" says son :clap:clap

[Angie and Mick]

Just back from the pub reading these posts, I must admit a few tears in my eyes, love reading all the posts. My hubby gone to bed, telling me not to be grumpy in the morning if I stay up to late.

[Moorf]

I didn't cry....... honest...... :uhoh






:wah

[marcia]

That brought another tear to my eye, and a big smile at the kids doing the gay gordons on the lawn, takes practise not to get your arms all twisted up!

thanks Carol

[Singel]

We don't have kid but Carol, your posts have move me to tears :wah (sorry, I just can't help it)

[K&CS]

You lot are all a bit weird with your crying, I have to say.... It's a very interesting thread, yes, but making you cry?? I think you've all had too much to drink!!!

Anyway, we've only been here for 2 months, but already I can't imagine the kids ever wanting to return to the UK. We spent every day of the easter hols on the beach (only 5 mins from here) with the girls swimming in the sea, then having a dollar cone afterwards. The girls go boogie boarding with their dad at the weekend as long as it isn't raining. We go out for picnics every weekend and they get far less stressed parents to boot! They don't watch all the telly that they did in the UK as (as has been mentioned before, the TV is rubbish). They spend that time reading or playing out with friends or spending time with us. This is definitely the best thing we could do for them - about that I have no doubt!!

Kate x

[ElizabethD]

Your post was perfect.

[westi]

Hi. Would definately say my 2 boys have had more opportunities in NZ.
When we moved to Nz 5 years ago my 15 yr old chose to stay with his dad is bristol but decided to join us when he was 18 after not doing so well at college and didn't really know what he wanted to do.
He got an apprenticeship here and hasn't looked back. His social life is different too as it's based more around going to friends houses, and the gym, rather than going down town and seeing how much they can drink.
My younger son is now 15, he was was really shy and retiring when we first got here but the 5 years going through the school system has really bought him out of his shell, as the teachers concentrate a lot on confidence building and personal growth as well as accademics.
He's always wanted to be a pilot and there are a lot of opportunities for training here.
I think they've both had more opportunities to try new things while we've been here.

[Diny]

Very interesting thread - some great comments which I've enjoyed reading. I'm with Kate as far as the crying goes - it just hasn't had that effect on me - am I really that devoid of emotion?

I guess it all depends on the individual family, what you all find important, and - very much so - the kind of life you had before you arrived in NZ. I think those forum members who couldn't wait to get out of the UK will obviously find life for them - and their families so much better over here in NZ. This I can fully understand. But for those forum members who had a great life back in the UK (or wherever they came from) and didn't necessarily have a huge desire to leave, just a huge desire to 'branch out', life over here in NZ doesn't present any higher standard of living or better opportunites than we had back home.

However, I find the comments from people who find life over here so much better are heart warming and sometimes moving, and I understand all of the emotions behind every word. It's just that for some (yes, me included), I can't see the future prospects for any member of my family being better than what we had at home ......... but neither are they worse. I guess I'm very much 'middle of the road' on this subject.

[tottefan]

Well, I guess it depends on how you define prospects.

If prospects = jobs and money, then I'd imagine you would have the potential to earn more money, have a better life materially, more chance of leading a distinguished career etc. in the UK.

If better prospects = no rat race and a more outdoor and stress-free lifestyle for your children (and yourself), then NZ would be better.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

Well, I guess it depends on how you define prospects.



You are exactly right. I guess by 'prospects' I personally mean just about everything. My husband still has the same job he had in the UK, the only difference being he flies in and out of Auckland instead of UK so nothing has changed there (money wise). We lived in a very rural 'chocolate box' village, open spaces, few people and beautiful scenery, laid back way of life and a generally stress free existance was the norm back home too.

I know that it'll be different for each individual, but I can honestly say that there has been no magical step towards anything 'better' since we moved here - but saying that there's not been any step backwards either (apart of course my kids education but that's a different thread altogether).

Diny

[tottefan]

I guess a lot depends on where you've come from in the UK. If you came from a nice, laid-back village/small town then NZ probably won't feel too different. If you came from an urban area like most of us here, however, then NZ will feel much more laid-back/stress-free I would imagine. I've often said that if I could afford a property in somewhere like Cornwall or some beautiful part of the British countryside then I'd probably stay. Unfortunately it's becoming increasingly difficult for people to buy in rural areas in the UK due to property prices and the difficulty of balancing lifestyle v jobs.

If you avoid Auckland I should imagine everywhere else in NZ should be pretty laid-back and great to live. Personally speaking, I find the thought of living in an underpopulated country with a more rural outlook on life appealing. ;)


Tottefan.

[Carol]

I lived in three places in the UK during my life there.
THe first - a tiny village where I grew up as a child. Everyone knew everyone else - I walked to school - a few shops served the village - it was pretty much a tranquil lovely place to live.

It has changed.
I persuaded my mum to move out of the drug- dealing scum ridden estate that I grew up in, the last time I was home. I now sleep a bit easier at night.
Some low life attempted to rob my grandma of her handbag as she was walking home one night just before she passed away....
The place has a reputation now. Not just for drugs but for burglaries too.
And.... it's not much bigger than it used to be oddly enough!

THe second place I lived was in Tyneside - my husband's home town.
THe last time we were there - we were dismayed - although not surprised - to find the entire shopping mall boarded up.
The place is a dump now.

The last place I lived - where the boys were born - was blissful.
Fantastic rural views and lots of history in the village.
I loved it.
The last time we were there - my friend who lives there warned us against walking down the main street late at night.

None of the above are what I wanted for my kids to grow
There is good and bad wherever you are.
NZ is NOT a crime free haven - but it is a hell of a better alternative for us personally.

[willsken]

I lived in three places in the UK during my life there.
THe first - a tiny village where I grew up as a child. Everyone knew everyone else - I walked to school - a few shops served the village - it was pretty much a tranquil lovely place to live.

It has changed.
I persuaded my mum to move out of the drug- dealing scum ridden estate that I grew up in, the last time I was home. I now sleep a bit easier at night.
Some low life attempted to rob my grandma of her handbag as she was walking home one night just before she passed away....
The place has a reputation now. Not just for drugs but for burglaries too.
And.... it's not much bigger than it used to be oddly enough!

THe second place I lived was in Tyneside - my husband's home town.
THe last time we were there - we were dismayed - although not surprised - to find the entire shopping mall boarded up.
The place is a dump now.

The last place I lived - where the boys were born - was blissful.
Fantastic rural views and lots of history in the village.
I loved it.
The last time we were there - my friend who lives there warned us against walking down the main street late at night.

None of the above are what I wanted for my kids to grow
There is good and bad wherever you are.
NZ is NOT a crime free haven - but it is a hell of a better alternative for us personally.

Carol you are so right. You really have to go a long way and spend a lot of money to live a decent life in the UK now. Mum and Dad live in Taunton. I grew up there and had a great childhood... lovely place. They are scared to leave their house when they go away now, the youth have gotten out of control and damage property all the time. Dad has 7 sisters who used to meet one evening a week but don't anymore because of driving home through the town centre. One of them had her car attacked by some youngsters when she stopped at a traffic light. I don't know what to say really. Some people are lucky to have a good life in the UK and not be affected by the things we talk about. I would love to see a pole started about the reasons people are leaving ........ hint hint someone! :D

[Diny]

Some people are lucky to have a good life in the UK and not be affected by the things we talk about. I would love to see a pole started about the reasons people are leaving ........ hint hint someone! :D


This is very true, I consider myself very lucky to have lived in such a peaceful place in the UK.

My parents still live in the same house that I was born in - dad was born there too 82 years ago. The UK that is described above is totally alien to me. That's not to say I spent all my time living there with my head in the sand, it's just that I lived in a VERY rural area and unless I travelled into the towns and cities I wouldn't see any of the above described behaviour. I realise how very lucky I am to have those memories of home.

When we lived in Scotland we had a city centre flat, right smack bang in the middle of Aberdeen, I experienced city life first hand so know exactly what living in a built up urban area is like. Although I never 'walked the streets' at night alone - always took a taxi, I don't ever remember being afraid or intimidated.

I do remember one particularly harrowing occasion when a intoxicated, glassy eyed youth threatened to slit my ******* throat. It was just a couple of months ago, here in Ashhurst, just outside Palmerston North, NZ.

I agree with Carol that there is good and bad wherever you live - how can it be any other way. I just sometimes feel that all of the UK gets clumped together into the category of crime infested, built up waste land where as IMHO that's just not the case.

My love of the UK doesn't mean that I dislike NZ or feel that others comments are wrong, it's just that 'for me' I'm yet to be convinced that moving to NZ has been a step forward - in any aspect. I like to think of it as a sideways step.

Diny

[Debbie P.]

When I was growing up in Bournemouth in the 70s, we used to walk around barefoot. I remember my friends and I going down to the beach by ourselves as 9 and 10 year olds. I wouldn't like my nephews to do that now.

When I moved back from London, 5 years ago, my husband and I went into the town centre one Saturday night... and were home again by 9! We were terrified - fights breaking out all around us, large stag and hen groups marching down the street, drunk, shouting and barging everyone out of their way. I can't begin to imagine what it's like at 1 in the morning. A guy was shot dead in the nightclub I used to go to - some drugs dispute that he wasn't involved in - he just happened to be slightly too tall and got in the way of the bullet. Other people have been scarred for life with glasses shoved in their faces. I know this happens everywhere - it's just weird when it happens somewhere you used to go to every Saturday night. If I had children, I certainly wouldn't want them going anywhere near a nightclub in Bournemouth these days.

But, one thing that worries me is the variety of experiences available in NZ. I'd want my children (if I have any) to be able to choose their lives from as wide a variety of opportunities as possible, and how would I feel if they decamped to Europe or the UK and never came back? Mind you, they could just as easily go to Australia or NZ and leave us in the UK...

This emigration lark is very complicated!

[willsken]

If I had children, I certainly wouldn't want them going anywhere near a nightclub in Bournemouth these days.


This is one of the factors in the decision we have made about coming to NZ. My oldest is 12 and probably not far off wanting to go to the under 18's disco in Cardiff (If it turns out to be his cup of tea!). I would never consider letting him go (apparently the girls hand in their clothes - the way we use to do with our coats, then proceed to club away in their skimpy little undies!!! When one of my friends daughters told us about this I didn't believe it. I asked some of the girls in one of my classes at school and was told that yes this was quite common) OMG - I'm not a prude.... but some standards pppplease :wah

And don't start me on the drunken behaviour on the streets after about 10pm... we don't bother going into Cardiff any more. On the odd night OH goes with his friends from work I spend the whole night worrying about him! :roll

(Still a lovely place to shop by day though!! :D )




But, one thing that worries me is the variety of experiences available in NZ. I'd want my children (if I have any) to be able to choose their lives from as wide a variety of opportunities as possible, and how would I feel if they decamped to Europe or the UK and never came back? Mind you, they could just as easily go to Australia or NZ and leave us in the UK...

This emigration lark is very complicated!


My boys may choose to come back to the UK or as you say go to Aus BUT I will have given them a few years of childhood. So much of that has been taken away from them..... they know too much is what I mean. When Tom was 6 he asked me what the C word meant. I really think he's too young to know that, he's 9 now and definitely knows ……….. a boy at school told him. :wah I just want my sons to enjoy being children and I know they aren't having that here.

[Diny]

I know I'm in fear of making my self sound like an old crow, but I can honestly say that since arriving here my kids have certainly not 'improved' at all.

They now know all about human reproductive stuff - none of it from us, all learnt from sniggering playground talk. My eldest recently asked what the 'C' word meant aswell, and he's 10 !!! He'd heard the kids at school saying it.

To be honest, the language my kids use now is apalling compared to that they heard back at home, IMHO kids just seem to be so much more 'well rehearsed' in filth over here. The open use of expletives and cussing by the general public will obviously rub off on the youngsters.

All I'm saying (not that I have any authority to do so, but simply trying to make your transition easier), as far as thinking that NZ is some haven that will extend the innocent years of your offsprings childhood - we've found that simply isn't the case. Which quite frankly is disappointing and heart breaking. Our boys seemed to grow up in the space of a few weeks, and we too thought they'd be kids forever when we arrived.

Diny

[Diny]

I've just re-read my above post and am now panicing that I'm sounding like a moaning wet-knickers.

Please don't get me wrong, I love NZ and living here is proving to be a wonderful experience. But sometimes I get very sad at the reality.

I can honestly say - hand on heart - that as far as my boys are concerned, they seem to have left their childhood in the departure lounge at Manchester airport. That's not to say they've turned into foul mouthed yobbos - far from it - but the 'street wise' lingo they now use saddens me, the names they call each other during minor squabbles shock me and the information they come out with can sometimes stun me.

It's all well and good saying that kids grow up eventually and it's only a matter of time before they start to experiment with words, names and telling bawdry stories, but mine seem to have taken a massive leap forward into that stage of growing up since we arrived here.

Perhaps they lived too much of a sheltered life back in the UK, perhaps we should have exposed them to more than we did.

I remember back at home my youngest saw some cattle in a field, one of the cows was trying to mount the other - he laughed and said 'hey look, that cows having a piggy back'. A while ago he witnessed the same thing over here, only this time he said 'hey look, that cows trying to shag the other one - it's a lesbian'.

We'll all have different hopes and dreams, and all of us will do what we think is best for our children, there's no right and wrong, no good and bad, and I guess it's just up to us as parents to be more 'persuasive' (sp) than the kids in the playground.

Diny

[willsken]

Diny have PM'd you! :yes

[Diny]

Got your PM Nic - thanks.

[Paul & Rach]

Great post - TEARS ? yes... Drink ? yes... but so what... its whats life's all about.

[ellen]

We are here with a reluctant and sad 15 year old.(nearly 16)...who is daily begging to be allowed to return to the States. In Kansas, he had finally found a group of friends about a year or so before we left, after years of "not fitting in." He misses them tremendously. He has invitations from friends (and their parents) to live back in Kansas for his final year of secondary school. I told him that I wouldn't even consider it if he didn't give it heart and soul here.

I think he has so far. He went out and got a job making pizzas. He joined the tennis club and the soccer team. Teachers report that he is well-liked at school and always has friends around him. But, four months here now and he has been invited over to one friend's house. One. We are have a tiny rental (and no xbox or that sort of thing) but one friend from a farm has stayed here when he would have to miss soccer training because of a lack of rides. He will stay again and I will be sure that there is a fine meal and plenty of good food before I head to choir that night. He often is busy texting his "friends" but he is not included in social life.

My son is also downhearted because he lives for soccer and he broke his foot the week before the first game. So he can't work and he can't play. He is still trying to make the best by going to the gym and working on upper body strength, but he is so lonely. We are closer, but as he says, he needs more time with teenagers. (Meanwhile, he learned to make a fabulous pear cake last night!)

Still, even if it works out that he returns to the States, this time in NZ is what I wanted for him....not for him to suffer, but for him to be tested and not just float along. My pet peeve in the States is the idea that life is to be problem free and kids there often feel like some implicit promise is betrayed if they are faced with a sustained challenge. I suspect that we will know the true meaning of his experience in New Zealand in ten years, if ever.

His father left home when he was 17 and I think my son is similarly independent. We have much affection between all of us, but I do think he will be ready to chart his own course sooner rather than later. He wants routine and familiarity and for him, that seems to mean Kansas. Additionally, I wanted him out of the clutches of the US war machine, in case the mad politicians of the US decide to go even further down the road of their war mongering. Here, we have a foothold of safety for him, even if he returns to the US for a bit. Or for good.

[carina]

Hi Diny

You did'nt sound like a moaning wet-knickers to me. I thought your post was very interesting. I am a mother of 3 young children and I am constantly concerned with what they come out with! I really don't remember being so forward when I was a kid (i'm 35). My 5 year old daughter wanted her boyfriend round to play, she kept telling him she loved him, hugging & kissing him, then when he'd gone home she was like a love sick teenager ! Whats she going to be like when she is a teenager :rolleyes:

My 8 year old son commented that his sister must be a lesbian because she said she loved her friend who's a girl. I was quite shocked to think he even knew what one was. :(

Like any mother I just want my children to be safe, and be able to play freely outside, with out me being worried that some ones going to try and snatch them. But I think what I am looking for can't be guaranteed anywhere nowadays, and we are sadly having to teach our children to be wary of everyone.

I was surprised to hear that you kids had taken a massive leap forward in growing up since living in NZ. I would have thought it would have had the opposite effect- so it just proves that my perceptions can be so wrong.

Thanks for sharing you experiences

Carina

[tottefan]

Doesn't everyone realise that paedophiles and 'dirty old men' have always existed? The idea that paedophiles have only recently started snatching children from the street is completely false - it has ALWAYS happened. The simple fact is that taking the awful traffic levels currently in the UK aside, children would be as safe from strangers as they've ever been. The BBC, newspapers have a lot to answer to IMO.

As for 8 years olds knowing what a lesbian is - I don't really see the problem if they perceive it to just be two women who love one another (minus the details obviously). Also, why is it so bad if children recognise sexual behaviour in animals? Isn't it just a fact of life? I do agree that use of the c word and f word should be discouraged, however.

Since most on this forum are in their 30s and 40s, I can't believe for a second that you could be shocked by any of this, as I remember swearing being commonplace in the 1980s and throughout the 1990s. If current comedy shows are anything to go by even the elderly like to hear a rude and vulgar joke these days. ;) :yes


Tottefan.

[willsken]

Doesn't everyone realise that paedophiles and 'dirty old men' have always existed? The idea that paedophiles have only recently started snatching children from the street is completely false - it has ALWAYS happened. The simple fact is that taking the awful traffic levels currently in the UK aside, children would be as safe from strangers as they've ever been. The BBC, newspapers have a lot to answer to IMO.

As for 8 years olds knowing what a lesbian is - I don't really see the problem if they perceive it to just be two women who love one another (minus the details obviously). Also, why is it so bad if children recognise sexual behaviour in animals? Isn't it just a fact of life? I do agree that use of the c word and f word should be discouraged, however.

Since most on this forum are in their 30s and 40s, I can't believe for a second that you could be shocked by any of this, as I remember swearing being commonplace in the 1980s and throughout the 1990s. If current comedy shows are anything to go by even the elderly like to hear a rude and vulgar joke these days. ;) :yes


Tottefan.

I certainly agree that this was all around in the 80's but 6 year olds using the C word. I don't think so. I am not shocked by any swear words, just at the age of the children using them.

You are right that paedophiles and 'dirty old men' have always existed. But since the onset of the Internet the amount of these people abusing youngsters have increased drastically. The stranger danger is no more than it used to be, just the danger of people already in your life one way or another. Children are being sexualised in this country, go to any 8 year old girls birthday party and see that. Watch the music vids, TV programs etc IMHO it stinks.

Diny did not say that there was anything wrong with children seeing the cows at it.... what she said is she would rather they didn't use the word "shag" to describe it!

[tottefan]

The word 'shag' is nothing compared to what my cousin used when she was 3/4 years old. I remember being greeted with 'p*** off mother ******' one morning! :roll :laugh

I do agree that swearing and crude behaviour has got markedly worse in the UK in last 4 or 5 decades (probably longer), but I still disagree with the assertion that children are more at risk from paedophilic crimes. True the Internet has provided perverts with an easier means to display disturbing images, but paedophiles are still paedophiles and that does not change with technology. Even if they don't have easy access to pictures, that will not stop them from seeking out children. Some of the childhood tales of dirty old men hanging around parks and missing children told by my nan reinforces my view that paedophilia is one crime that doesn't change with time.


Tottefan.

[tottefan]

Having read some of your previous posts Diny, I must admit that I'm surprised that you are shocked that 8-10 year olds use words like 'shag' in NZ. I can honestly say that I hear 6 year olds using rather more colourful language in my area and yet I'm supposed to be living in a quite posh area. :laugh :o


Tottefan.

[carina]

Hi

Well said willsken I agree with you completely!

Carina

[zardell]

The word 'shag' is nothing compared to what my cousin used when she was 3/4 years old. I remember being greeted with 'piss off mother fucker' one morning! :roll :laugh
Tottefan.


So that makes it alright then does it ?? And by the laughing smiley that you used above, do I take it that you found that amusing ?? Your prerogative I suppose.

I find it disgraceful.

What I personally find even more astounding than the actual foul language that 'kids' use today, is the fact that they know what these disgusting words mean, or at least have a child's perception of what they believe they mean.

Julie

xx

[tottefan]

No, I'm not treating it lightly at all: I don't mind people using the odd swear word but I find the overuse of expletives to be inappropriate and highly offensive. I was just trying to treat a serious subject with a bit of humour.

I suppose it shouldn't surprise us that children swear so much, especially giving the amount of swear words used by supposedly more mature and sensible adults! I work part-time in a shop and the number of middle-aged and older people who openly use the f word used to surprise me - but nothing shocks me anymore. :roll


Tottefan.

[willsken]

but I still disagree with the assertion that children are more at risk from paedophilic crimes. True the Internet has provided perverts with an easier means to display disturbing images, but paedophiles are still paedophiles and that does not change with technology. Even if they don't have easy access to pictures, that will not stop them from seeking out children. Some of the childhood tales of dirty old men hanging around parks and missing children told by my nan reinforces my view that paedophilia is one crime that doesn't change with time.
Tottefan.

Paedophiles did not have rings on the scale they have today. They have many lines of communicating with each other that didn't exist years ago. Have you seen the latest numbers of people being trafficked into the white slave trade? I know not all of them are children or headed for the sex trade. I think I read not long ago it is around 800,000, mainly from Eastern Europe (I’m not sure over what period these figures are). I wonder what portion of these are boys and girls are under a certain age.

I don't have time tonight but I will look into the figures more.

I will say Paedophiles have nothing to do with my decision to go to NZ, I don’t see our boys being at much risk unless we are very very unlucky and that could just as easily happen in NZ.

All I am saying is that IMO the risk for a certain type of child to be drawn into sexual abuse is greater today that is was, say 20 years ago. That maybe because a child selling themselves to pay for their drug habit, to me is abuse.

[zardell]

I suppose it shouldn't surprise us that children swear so much, especially giving the amount of swear words used by supposedly more mature and sensible adults!
Tottefan.


Yes, I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. Children will pick up swear words just as they pick up the rest of their vocabulary.

What concerns me is, as Diny and others have said, that they seem to know the meaning of these expletives.

You can't stop your children from hearing and using swear words outside the home - they hear the words, they pick them up, they use them, but to be aware of their definition is in my opinion another matter entirely.

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Swearing is a strange one. I swear so does my husband, but not all the time, rarely in front of the children.... and never in front of my mother! What I tell my boys is that if they think they are mature enough to use bad language then they should be mature enough to know the time and place to use it.

I can honestly say that I have never heard my youngest swear - he doesn't like it (yet) but the oldest boy did start to try it on. A hard lesson has been learnt by him and I haven't heard it coming out of his mouth for a couple of years. I know he probably does swear when he is with his friends but there really is nothing I can do about that. As I say a time and a place - I’d rather he didn’t at all but…..

[Diny]

Having read some of your previous posts Diny, I must admit that I'm surprised that you are shocked that 8-10 year olds use words like 'shag' in NZ.
Tottefan.

I don't quite know what you mean by this but I'll let it slide. I have to agree with Zardell - your use of smiley icons does indicate that you find the whole 'junior swearing' thing amusing - that of course, is your parogative. I however, don't find it amusing.

My report about my youngest child seeing the cows in the field was demonstrating how his attitude and vocabulary has changed dramatically. I feel you've shot off at abit of a tangent with some of your comments.

We all have our own ideas regarding parenting. From what I can work out everybody apart from yourself (involved in this discussion) are parents, maybe if/when you have a family of your own in the future, you may decide that a 3 year old calling somebody a mother ****** isn't worthy of a smiley icon, or that a sudden premature change in your childs sexual knowledge and vocabulary isn't a touch worrying.

I am no saint, yes I swear, I drink, I tell rude stories, I have sex, but I do all of these activites in appropriate locations and NOT within the sight/earshot of minors.

Diny

[ellen]

I sit here at my computer with an intermediate school right over the nearby fence. At the Morning Tea Interval, I get a real earful, if I choose to listen. It reminds me of people with limited hand movements...there is only one movement they can make over and over. They will never know how to crochet, or knit, or play a piano or violin. The constant "fuck" and variations thereof, mean that they aren't learning to discriminate or use language to its infinite variety.

It surprises me, in a way, since I have noticed a vibrancy in language, particularly in verb usage, that I hadn't noticed in the US. I guess, though, that most of those were Kiwis over the age of 45 (though many of them were also not too shy of some swearing, most of them had a grand variety of language).

The issue of premature knowledge reared its head over and over for my son in the States...he was often using words he had heard inappropriately. I found myself explaining things at an early age so that he could understand why he shouldn't use the term. I wasn't happy about that. Once, though, he cut me off, saying, "That sex stuff? I don't need to know it. Tell me just before I get married." (I do think he may have changed his attitude about that.)

That said, I hold adults more responsible than the foul mouths of the other kids. Childhood has been commercialized and the kids are the target consumers. And so much of the selling has a sexualized aspect. That is just pervasive and it has seeped deeply into culture. It was startling to watch my nieces adapt to that when they arrived in America as teenagers, from then-Zaire. Their mother was bewildered at the power of the changes to alter their outlook.


My daughter, on the other hand, wanted to know everything early on. And I innocently let her watch too many nature shows...all nonstop sex and violent death....

Sorry for the long posts....

[tottefan]

I don't quite know what you mean by this but I'll let it slide. I have to agree with Zardell - your use of smiley icons does indicate that you find the whole 'junior swearing' thing amusing - that of course, is your parogative. I however, don't find it amusing.

Perhaps I did misuse the smilies, but I was only intending to talk about this serious matter in a facetious way. It was certainly not my intention to talk as though swearing is acceptable. To be honest, I often despair at the open and indiscrimate use of expletives in public places. My judgement of such people is generally unfavourable, especially as I find they are more likely to be a member of the Chav club. :(

I don't quite know what you mean by this but I'll let it slide.

I simply meant that you must have been viewing children with a certain degree of naivety to be shocked by such behaviour. Perhaps because I have had to deal with the general public and have mixed with younger people, I am less likely to be shocked by vulgar and unrefined behaviour; therefore I tend to be more cynical. Despite this, I always try my best to act with a certain degree of decorum myself.

Paedophiles did not have rings on the scale they have today

Paedophiles operate regardless of communication channels and images. A lot of child murders and kidnappings are committed by paedophiles who have not actively been involved with other paedophiles - they merely act on a peverse and extremely disturbing impulse. If they are that way inclined, they will snatch kids off the street without the need for collaboration with others. This is because many child killers act completely independently: child trafficking and viewing child porn over the Internet is completely different, but equally unacceptable, to the kidnapping and murder of children. For that, no communication is required.

Statistics are completely flawed. I don't doubt for a second that thousands of children are sexually abused in the UK, but this does not tell the whole story. Before the 1960s, people did not accept that paedophilic crimes were occurring - in the same way that homesxuality was brushed under the carpet. It just did not enter people's minds. The interesting thing, when interpreting past and present crime stats, is that child murders were seemingly just as common as they are now.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

I simply meant that you must have been viewing children with a certain degree of naivety to be shocked by such behaviour. .


No I don't think I have been. It's just that I was commenting on the bahaviour of my 'own' child/children. I'm fully aware of what goes on in the world. As parents we have always been fairly strict with our kids, in as much as bad language is not allowed. How other children act and what they are allowed to 'get away with' is nothing to do with us, it's the job of their parents.

I was stating alarm at the sudden and rapid 'growing up' of my kids since arriving here in NZ. The behaviour of other kids and adults alike never shocks me, if you knew me personally you'd know that I'm about as far away from your suggestion as it's possible to get. In adult company I'd probably go as far as saying I'm unshockable. It's just that we have always set high standards for our kids, believing that they'll be adult for a long time, we'd like them to enjoy their childhood for as long as possible. If you feel this makes me sound naieve (sp) then I'm sorry - I class it as responsible.

There's time enough for the effing and blinding and the stark realities of adulthood. We hadn't planned for our boys to enter that period just yet. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking that using words like shagging (and knowing what it means) is unsuitable for an 8 year old.

Diny

[Carol]

Maybe I'm wrong for thinking that using words like shagging (and knowing what it means) is unsuitable for an 8 year old.

Diny


What is acceptable for one family is not for another.
Even a simple word like damn - while used easily in one household would not be tolerated in another.

THe reaction a parent gives to a child coming out with something like "shagging" is crucial to what happens next time - and the next time and the next time - the kids even thinks about using the word.

I am well aware that my boys swear.
However......I have never ever heard them. They know better than to use it in front of me or my husband or their sister.
Because they have been very well drilled as to what is appropriate language and when to use it.
Like Diny also said earlier - there IS a time and a place.....

I agree that the level of language used in NZ is generally poor.
However - attitudes towards what is said has to be at the root of the problem.
If we are in the car and there is someone talking on the radio about "pissing about" (or similar - and believe me it happens VERY regularly) - I turn it off - and as I do so I will say to my 7 year old "that's terrible language isn't it?"
I hate to hear it.

In a similar way - I will not stand for ANY swearing of any description in my classroom or within earshot of teachers in the school playground. Not even the affectionate term (in NZ) "bugger" is allowed in my room.
The seniors I teach know this quite clearly.
They respect me - and they are clearly VERY respectful of the principal who backs me up every way I need.
We are also adamant as teachers that kids in school use our names. SO if I ask them something - the answer I am expecting is "Yes Mrs J" not "Yeah"
It is not accepted and they are pulled up each and every time they do it by ALL staff.
I guess it is down to expectations and constant reinforcement that "that is not respectful - you need to say it like this....."
It is really interesting that a boy I got at the start of the year - whose language was appalling - who had no idea what I was on about re using my name etc etc has been "encouraged" to speak like the rest of them by the kids in the class.
It had to be pointed out to him (byme) that if he expected to make friends - he needed to tow the line - none of them wanted anything to do with him because they thought he was going to get them into trouble for speaking the way he did.
Interestingly enough - he has all but disappeared as a trouble maker - and is living up to my expectations.



I've said it many many times before........the school you choose for your children is VERY important.
Take your time. Visit more than once.
Do not go off recommendation of a friend of a friend and never ever choose a school before you get here.
GRILL the principal - particularly on standards of behaviour, if that is what you are most interested in. If you have bright kids ask how they are going to be extended. If they have had problems ask how their needs will be met.


There ARE good schools out there........but just like in the UK - you may have to look around for them.

We had the complete opposite happen to our kids to what happened to Dinys' boys.
We grabbed years back for them.

The schools we chose most definitely helped.

[NannyOgg]

Hi All

I have read this thread with interest and seem to agree and disagree with the many statments put forth so far on this subject. Not going to bore you all with MHO but a dim and distance memory has surfaced to the fore and it made me smile - not for its subject matter, but for its clarity and innocence.

Picture if you will a small girl of 4 years old holding her mummy's hand on the way to post a letter at the corner post box. Somebody had used this box and a black marker to leave a message for the postie. It said, Postie, you are a C%&!. She turns to her mother, repeats the words she reads and asks what they mean. She is told that the last one is a very bad word and must never be used. As a consequence she spends the rest of day muttering it under her breath whilst digging for worms, washing her dollies and counting her marbles. She must have said it a hundred times - but not within earshot. It was soon forgotten and she never used the word again until she hit her late twenties and was REALLY, REALLY ANGRY.

I know this to be true because I was that small girl was me and all this happened in Slough in 1972! So this swearing malarky was probably an issue for parents in Ancient Greece as much as it is for those of us around the world today.

Nanny x

[Carol]

I wonder what they used in Ancient Greece.....
;) :D

[katandbob]

Hi All


So this swearing malarky was probably an issue for parents in Ancient Greece as much as it is for those of us around the world today.

Nanny x

yep Nanny,

I agree, I constantly tell my kids, and their friends not to swear, that they need to realise that they are saying it, and take a consious effort to stop it, as they will find that once they get into the adult world, it will not be acceptable to swear in every sentence!

They do try, but when they spend the majority of their time in school where it is used constantly, sometimes its a loosing battle.

BUT - I have found with both my daughter and eldest son, that once out of the school environment and into College/work they mature and stop using it all the time.

I remember using foul language sometimes (when in the wrong crowds) at school.

The difference was that I knew if I used it within the earshot of Adults I'd get a slap around the earhole!

theres a lot to say about the lack of disipline that the youngsters of today have and this is a major factor.

NOW Watch the cronies that dont agree with corporal punishment spring out!

But in MHO I think that the day they made the law that you were not allowed to smack your child, it started to go wrong....

for instance....

upon sending my children (the two eldest) to their new school (Actually it was my old primary school) and in an interview with the Head (he remembered teaching me and Rob!), he commented that after spending an hour with my 2 in the lessons. that they were both very well mannered and polite children, who showed respect for their elders - and it was a rareity nowadays....
I said thanks, thats probably because they have grown up with dissapline, and that I wasnt part of this crazy "you cant smack" brigade.....(now dont get me wrong, I can count the times I have smacked all 3 kids on one hand, but the knowledge that THEY COULD get a smack, worked every time.)

His reply to this was......Yes I totally agree, (But I didnt Just say that) the lack of dissapline is a major factor in the increase of dissruptive kids in our school, BUT I should warn you not to bandy the fact about that you smack your kids....I am legally supposed to report you to child welfare!!!!

enuf said!
thats my debating over for the day :o

Kat

[Diny]

NOW Watch the cronies that dont agree with corporal punishment spring out!

But in MHO I think that the day they made the law that you were not allowed to smack your child, it started to go wrong....




I can count the times I have smacked all 3 kids on one hand, but the knowledge that THEY COULD get a smack, worked every time.)




This is sooooooo true regards the first bit - and 'same here' regards the last bit.

Diny

[Carol]

One thing for sure.
No matter where you live - some kids get smacked some kids don't.
Some parents takeit too far and some give a tap.
It works with some kids and has no effect on others.
I personally never ever had a finger laid upon me........ but still gave my kids a smacked bum when needed. (I'm in the "can count on one hand" brigade too....)

But smacking is a whole new debate.........

[Carol]

It goes without saying that we all want what is best for our kids.
Ultimately we may have made the right decision for them - but I still worry that in fact I have made a huge mistake by taking them away from their grandparents. My own were such a big part of my life...

At the end of the day - you can only do your best.
You make your decisions and hold your breath - hoping it is all going to work out.


I remember vividly my MIL telling me I would "spoil" my oldest by picking him up all the time.
Load of crap.

I did what I needed to do. He is now a big, strapping, almost 17 year old, who still gives me a hug and kiss before he leaves the house. We are both completely comfortable with that.
The 14 year old is coming back round to the idea... ;)

I did the right thing. She was wrong.

I can only hope my other decisions I have made regarding raising my kids - including the huge emigration one - were as right.


:cheers

[pieeater]

I of course can only speak of our experiences and I am pretty hard to please at the best of the times but I have found my childrens schooling to be, get this 'Brilliant'.My Children Boy now 15 and Girl now 11 ENJOY! going to School.We live in rural Northland and they have both attended the same school since we arrived 5 years ago.The School Bus (itself a true Kiwi icon),driven by one of the locals picks them up from the gate at 8.15 and drops them off after school at 3.45.The school is pretty much the centre of the local community during term times,and the parents become,and are actively encouraged to get involved.We have Country Day in early summer which is the annual big fundraiser,stalls,games,animal shows,goats,steers,cows and sheep of course,karaoke and sports,teachers v pupils etc.My wife and I have been on two school camps each and I was lucky enough to join the year 10s for a week at the Edmund Hillary Outdoor persuits centre at Tongariro National Park,Tramping, Caving,High Ropes,Skiing confidence building etc.sorry got to go and get my wife up now she's just been having a nod as she's on nights tonight,more soon.

[Diny]

The school is pretty much the centre of the local community during term times,and the parents become,and are actively encouraged to get involved.We have Country Day in early summer which is the annual big fundraiser,stalls,games,animal shows,goats,steers,cows and sheep of course,karaoke and sports,teachers v pupils etc.My wife and I have been on two school camps each and I was lucky enough to join the year 10s for a week at the Edmund Hillary Outdoor persuits centre at Tongariro National Park,Tramping, Caving,High Ropes,Skiing confidence building etc..

Yeah - that's exactly the same kind of activities that our school do, and I'm up there with you, they are BRILLIANT!!!!

I've always been a great fan of the above activities, but NOT the balance between them and academic studies (too much of the former at the expense of the latter) ....... but ho hum, here comes that old chestnut again.

Diny

[tottefan]

To be honest, I am doubtful that banning smacking has had a negative effect on children's behaviour. I personally think that most of it can be attributed to the breakdown of the family unit since the 1960s. Going by my own personal experiences, I would say that the vast majority of disruptive pupils came from broken homes or families, where parents quite frankly didn't give a damn about their own children. :roll Under these circumstances, what chances do children have, especially when stats show us that over 40% of fathers are abandoning their own children! :confused:

IMO people who think that smacking children harder is going to solve society's ills are just ignoring a larger social problem - the fact that so many youngsters have been abandoned by their parents who clearly aren't willing to fulfil their parental roles. Most parents care more about buying the latest car than they do about their children's wellbeing - and believe me that's no exaggeration.

The selfish 60s generation has a lot to answer for IMO.

I simply meant that you must have been viewing children with a certain degree of naivety to be shocked by such behaviour. .

The use of the word naive in the above statement wasn't meant to cause offence, Diny. I just found it a tad surprising, especially in this day and age, that anyone could find 8 or 10 year olds using words like 'shag' surprising. Perhaps, it's because I've become accustomed to hearing abusive language and don't feel surprised at anything anymore. To be honest, I actually find the thought that a parent is shocked by such behaviour kind of refreshing.


Tottefan.

[willsken]

I personally think that most of it can be attributed to the breakdown of the family unit since the 1960s. Going by my own personal experiences, I would say that the vast majority of disruptive pupils came from broken homes or families, where parents quite frankly didn't give a damn about their own children. :roll Under these circumstances, what chances do children have, especially when stats show us that over 40% of fathers are abandoning their own children! :confused:

IMO people who think that smacking children harder is going to solve society's ills are just ignoring a larger social problem - the fact that so many youngsters have been abandoned by their parents who clearly aren't willing to fulfil their parental roles. Most parents care more about buying the latest car than they do about their children's wellbeing - and believe me that's no exaggeration.

The selfish 60s generation has a lot to answer for IMO.
Tottefan.

Have to say I agree 100%. :yes






I will smack as a very very last resort. Rare though. Matts more botherd by me taking away his phone for a week! :D

[tottefan]

I will smack as a very very last resort. Rare though. Matts more botherd by me taking away his phone for a week!

My parents would only smack me as a last resort. I can honestly say that I've never committed a crime, smoked, taken drugs, got involved with a bad crowd etc. I think I owe my parents for this, as we have always been a very close, loving and supportive family. I find that this makes a huge difference - without love and support, I strongly believe that human beings can become completely devoid of emotion ad feeling.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

My parents would only smack me as a last resort. I can honestly say that I've never committed a crime, smoked, taken drugs, got involved with a bad crowd etc. I think I owe my parents for this, as we have always been a very close, loving and supportive family. I find that this makes a huge difference - without love and support, I strongly believe that human beings can become completely devoid of emotion ad feeling.


Tottefan.

Now here's a turn up for the books Totte - I agree with you 100% on the above !!!!

My mum once told me (just after I'd had my first child) - show them all the love and respect in the world, you will get it back ..... then the last thing your children will want to do is disappoint and hurt you. It's true !!

Diny

[kiwidollie]

Just wanted to say that my 17 year old son says that nothing upsets him more than the thought that he's disappointed me and his Dad.

He's a good lad and we've never had a minute's trouble from him or his 12 year old sister. We're a very close, loving family and I would absolutely agree with the above - show them all the love and respect in the world and they will give it back to you.

Ahh bless em x

[tottefan]

I still tell my mum and dad that I love them to bits and I'm 23. :o


Tottefan.