[Avalon]

Back in Blighty.

Well, we had our trip to the UK, which I was dreading in part. Because I had been so homesick ad found it quite hard to settle – I did worry that I would hit the UK and not want to leave. Well, im back in NZ – so you can see where that ended – but I thought Id share some of the things we saw, experienced and had a bloody good laugh about: Bear in mind – its just our observations and points of view ;) :

The Weather.

Lets get that out of the way first. The shock to the system started before we even got off the plane. The rotten git of a pilot chose to inform us that the Temperature in Manchester was 10 degrees. The whole plane groaned! It was 20 when we left NZ! It’s April for heavens sake – where’s spring gone??? It was no better on the ground – I really needed to have taken my big winter coat with me. Grey, wet, no leaves on the trees. And then – 2 day later it bleedin’ well snowed! I was not a happy bunny! I never really realised before just how demoralising it can be to not see the sun- each morning we woke up to thick grey clouds. I found it a bit of a shock to the system after such a long hot summer here in the Wairarapa. And I realised that since moving to NZ – for all it can get bloody cold here – I have not gone that long without seeing the sun. We didn’t get the sun back till the last 2 days we were there.

Talking to strangers

So we went for breakfast one morning to Tescos. (It was cheap (er) – lets not get started on the lack of eggs benny!). Our first trip – in Harlow – was not a success. First there were no plates. When they arrive there was no bacon. When we got the bacon there were no cups for the tea. Finally they arrive and we try to pay for our rapidly cooling breakfast and there’s no one to take the money. She wandered off after taking the payment for the guy in front of us. He discovered there was no cutlery, so she had gone to find some. By the time she came back and actually took our money for the now cold breakfast – there was still no cutlery. So we ate our frozen Eggs sausage and bacon – with a knife and spoon, sharing 1 cup of tea. Ho Hum. Anyway (there’s a point honest), later on we were in Portsmouth, and decided to get breakfast at tescos again. We head in to the café – check that there’s cutlery, cups, plates and food, which there is, and this time there’s a young girl to serve the food. My OH then starts to tell the girl about our nightmare breakfast in Harlow and she says:

“Mnnhhhh”.

Seriously – it wasn’t even a word. I’m explaining to my DH that we are no longer in NZ and he should maybe not try having a conversation with people and should tell the poor girl what he wants on his plate – while trying desperately not to wet meself.

Later on – we were trying to buy stuff in Superdrug cos it was ridiculously cheap – and he tried the whole conversation tactic again. This time we were left with a blank stare!

Costs.

Ignoring the small fact that we went over our credit card limit (Smiler – stop smirking), we found that it was in fact swings and roundabouts with costs. And yes – I was converting back into $$$$ which I have to say has helped enormously in getting my head round the fact that I think things are very expensive here when perhaps they are not. Eating out was making my eyes water. And to be honest – the food just really was not up to NZ standards when eating out. NZ supermarket food is still crap though, and I did come home with 12 boxes of OXO cubes, 6 boxes of Tampax and loads of bodyform. Things that are light and horrifically expensive over here. I don’t want to have to buy tampax anyway – charging me a small mortgage for them is just nasty! And paracetamol! 16p for 16 tabs at Boots. That’s 32p for 32 (you can buy 2 packs if there’s a pharmacist on duty), or 96c. As opposed to 1.95 for 20 here at best. I went into a lot of boots stores (Oh the shame!). Also – if you are tempted by a Bose soundock – wait till you get here. £249 or $549. And BOOKS. 3 for 2 at Waterstones! Talk about heaven.

Traffic.

Actually – better than we thought it was going to be. Except the whole Right Turn Rule really scuppered us. Do we go? Do they go? Argghhhhhh! You struggle with it when you get here – then you struggle without it when you go back! And we found we have finally developed the ability to drive at the speed limit. Embarrassing being overtaken though (though mostly when hubby was driving). Hubby has become way too laid back though. We went to park the car in Hereford, and I spotted a space. So he drove round, and then ever so slowly inched passed the open space so he could reverse in. Only there was a woman coming the other way, and as he cleared the space – she nipped into it. What on earth did he think he was doing????? I was just killing myself. My Hubby – Mr Irate driver – heavy on the horns- and he just sidled past leaving the space for someone else! Blimey is he become Kiwified.

Sausages and Bacon.

Nuff said.

Up selling

Jeez. Always a pet hate of mine anyway – but just infuriating when you have to go back to it. Costa Coffee is the worst offender (though only some stores do it). All I wanted was 2 blasted drinks. I don’t mind being asked “Would you like anything else?” But If I say no – for heavens sake don’t then ask me 20 bloody questions about whether I want sandwiches, muffin, mini muffins on special, to “go large” for only 30p extra, whipped cream and marshmallows. Arrghhhh NO – Just give me a bloody cup of damn coffee will you!!!!!! And then the guy had the temerity to be shocked when I snatched my £20 out of his hand and stormed off! On a mellower note – we went to tea at the Ritz – they up sell with a delicately placed card on your table advising that as well as buying your rather expensive Tea – they also would like to remind you that they sell Rings – from only £300. Now that’s class!

The Countryside.

Well, apart from the damp and cold: really if you head out of the suburbs – there’s still an awful lot of space. And there are so many similarities between the countryside here and in the UK. There really are quite large areas of the UK, which are just as empty as parts of NZ. No Palm Trees though. And stone built houses. With central heating in some of them! And boy – do we great villages or what in the UK????

History.

No contest: Castles!!!! Yay! Towns that have been around for centuries, and just feel “old”. Oh my god it was wonderful to just experience that feeling again. Our penultimate day (one where the sun came out) we went to Bosworth Field. Ok, its not sitting on a deserted beach and chilling, but to be honest – I could get just as much chilling done there. It was warm, the sun was shining, and the breeze was blowing these huge flags about. And there was a sense of pure history about the place. NZ just does not have a past of knights on horseback charging down a battlefield.

Overall.

It didn’t take that long actually for me to realise that now NZ is my home. But at the same time, the UK will always be somewhere that I want to go back to. Probably not to live – the disgust I felt at the politician’s behaviour over there at the time was pretty powerful. A friend said to me that you can now choose your political affiliation on the basis of: “If you are corrupt and want money – vote tory; if you are corrupt and like mistresses vote labour; and if rent boys do it for you – vote Lib Dem”. And this from someone who was standing in the elections. No wonder people don’t give a toss.

Do I prefer NZ to the UK. For living yes – I can now say that I do. Life here just feels “free-er” somehow. I’m not sure I can even put my finger on it – just that for me, I like a quite life. I like the fact that there’s not so much shoving and pushing. Heading back into the UK from Venice through Stanstead summed that up. A literal Hoarde of humanity trying to shove its way though 4 immigration booths. Boy did I wish for an NZ passport then!

This was a really good (if expensive) trip for me. It has really put things in perspective, and it did make NZ more appealing for me; I think because I could appreciate it more having spent 15 months here and THEN getting to look at the UK. Rather than hankering back for something I don’t have anymore.

One thing that really took me by surprise: I couldn’t wait to get back here and see my NZ friends. And a thought occurred to me: How lucky are we can have 2 sets of wonderful friends – each with totally different experiences of life and of us.
:cheers

[Diny]

Brilliant post, sounds like you had an eventful trip. One thing that confuses me - what dates were you there? I was there between 24th April and 10th May, had 2 wet days, the rest were glorious. The NW meeting nr Manchester was one of the warmest days I was there (see pics on other thread). The day I flew out of Manchester it was 26 degrees (so it said on the big digital thermometer and it certainly felt like it).

I agree with alot you have written, as far as the villages and history and the open countryside goes you're spot on, just no contest.

As for the friendliness of shop staff, I stood and had a really funny conversation with the checkout girl in Tesco in Stafford, she was so natural and 'un-programmed'. None of this downright stupid monotone 'how's your day been' crap. I wouldn't mind telling them if I thought they really wanted to know.

It's good that your trip has made you feel more settled here in NZ. My trip home did much the same for me, but it also confirmed in my mind that there's no way I will ever class NZ as 'home', but it did help to make me realise that however long we stay here we're going to have a great time.

How's the jet lag by the way?

Diny

[Avalon]

Diny

We arrived on the 7th of April and left on the 5th May. Our sunny days were the 3rd and 4th of may!

4th May in Manc was hot and glorious as it happens - and if we hadnt already blown the credit card would have been a wonderful shopping day.

I know people say the money is down south - but blimey - can northerners spend money!!! Much better shopping in Manc than London - and without the crowds and generally snottiness!

And no jet lag this time! However we did take a six hour stint in the transit hotel in Singapore. Worked wonders.

[Diny]

And no jet lag this time! However we did take a six hour stint in the transit hotel in Singapore. Worked wonders.


Managing to get a few z's in on the way works wonders doesn't it. My flight between Dubai and Melbourne was only half full, I managed to nab an entire row of 4 seats so I put all the arm rests up, swallowed a few sleeping pills and managed to lose just over 10 hours. You can imagine the dribbling that took place during that time !!!!

Diny

[jubjub]

Interesting read this, with our UK visit coming up in a couple of weeks, one thing that struck us was the potential cost of eating out compared to here, we are obviously going for a curry (being as Glasgow is back to being UK curry capital :clap ;)), and hubby has got a craving for his old favourite pizza place, but when we thought about it, the pizza alone is the equivalent of $45:eek: (or was a year ago!)

Ahhh, Tesco, just doing an online shop just now for baby food etc that we will need straight away, its tempting to put allsorts into this electronic basket.... (mum wont be able to fit it into her cupboards at this rate....)

Glad you had a good time, and are happy to have come back. :cheers

And yay to no jetlag.

[Marie P]

Great post Avalon ,enjoyed reading it .

Marie x

[Cardiff Irons]

That's a brilliant post, much laugh out loud giggling at this end :laugh:laugh.

I'm a bit frightened at the prospect of coming back to the UK after we get to NZ, mainly because of the cost of flights (they seem expensive now, what they will be like when we're accustomed to NZ $ heaven only knows).

[Smiler]

Great post Helen. I thought you would get your nashers round a bacon sarnie and tear up your return ticket. :laugh

I never thought I'd here those swear words from you. 'We went over our credit card limit' :D





Smirker

[Moorf]

Brilliant Av! Very interesting to read two recent accounts of people returning to NZ and hearing two quite different views. We're not going back until June 2007, and we'll have been here nearly 3 years by then - I'm quite looking forward to it in terms of seeing friends and family, visiting old haunts, enjoying the history (that's something I miss here too Helen) etc but we're really only going back because of the people we miss and sense of duty, no reason other than that.... when my parents rang at the weekend and we told them of this plan they told us to save our money and let people come to us :laugh - I think my father's exact words were - "what on earth do you want to come back here for, we're moving there in 3 yrs time!" :D

[Avalon]

I'm a bit frightened at the prospect of coming back to the UK after we get to NZ, mainly because of the cost of flights (they seem expensive now, what they will be like when we're accustomed to NZ $ heaven only knows).

Seriously - in £ our flights cost over 1000. Compared with 700ish if we had been going the other way. If you know you are going to be travel back frequently - I would certainly investigate the option of your first flight here being an open return. And then keep getting returns from the uK. And it Really pays to book well in advance. We didnt and the result was painful.

Oh - and start saving up now :D

[Avalon]

Moorf,

I had also figures on 3 years - giving me enough time to feel comfortable here in NZ and hopefully less of a pull back to the UK. It was only the wedding of a very dear friend that dragged me back. As it turns out I neednt have worried.

And smiler -

You are evil :D

[marcia]

What a wonderful honest post.

Some good tips too, will add paracetamol and tampax to my 'stock up' list!! :nice1 (already had oxo cubes on it, amongst other things)

[Debbie P.]

Regarding the weather, I don't know what it's been like elsewhere, but here in 'sunny' Bournemouth, it's been grim, grim, GRIM. Endless days of grey clouds, everyone keeps asking where spring got to, let alone early summer, and if that weather forecaster says 'Well, the gardens could do with it' one more time... It's the worst spring for years!

Debbie

[zardell]

What a wonderful post Avalon - thank you.

I really enjoyed reading it especially the 'Tesco Breakfast' bit. Doesn't sound dissimilar to our local Tesco !!

Maybe now, thanks to you, its a bit more obvious to those who don't know too much about the U.K weather why I posted my 'A New Zealand Winter' thread. You are sooo right when you say that we can go for days without seeing the sun and the grey clouds which make the grey days are so depressing.

I really enjoyed reading your post and it put a sunny smile on yet another grey U.K spring day.

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Great post Avalon!

Yup, agree with the you about the weather its been absolutely c**p here in sunny Wales. Last year I had long since taken the roof off my car. Have only had a day or two where the thought has even occurred to me this year.

Go along with Julie re the Tesco thing! Awful here to.

When I think about having trips back to the UK, I have to admit I don't plan to come back for a couple of years. Want us all to be settled first! :yes

[sizzlingbadger]

I was wondering how you got on. Great to hear your findings. Glad to hear that you came back despite the bacon sarnies :D

[Diny]

I'm up there with you on the bacon and bangers. I'm not known as a great meat lover but I do enjoy a good crispy bacon butty or a nice helping of bangers and mash (with onion gravy), I had both while I was home. Wonderful !!! They just don't get it over here do they?

[Jules]

Hi Diny

They do a good bangers and mash with onion gravy at Henneseys (sp) a good Irish pub in Rotorua, I know I have had them twice yummy :nice1

Jules

[Diny]

Then I shall make sure I give them a try next time I'm in the area - thanks for the info Jules.

Diny

[StevieD]

Don't they have bacon in NZ?? Not that I get to eat much bacon now, but I do enjoy a nice smokey bacon sandwich now and again, with a runny egg on too mmmmmmm

[pleccy2000]

As it turns out I neednt have worried.



out of interest..why not?

[jubjub]

Don't they have bacon in NZ?? Not that I get to eat much bacon now, but I do enjoy a nice smokey bacon sandwich now and again, with a runny egg on too mmmmmmm

There is great smokey bacon, we get Beehive and its yum, seems to be more smokey than UK though.. but you dont seem to get standard back rashers, its either middle bacon/streaky or just the eye bits...

oh, and Stevie, its iggs not eggs :p ;) .

[Moorf]

Oh yes! Beehive is our fav too... and I've had lots of lovely bangers and mash meals out here - most recently at the restaurant at Riccarton Bush in Chch (called Taste I think...) - that was the best yet.... it can be a bit hit and miss though, I had one served up that had chewy skin, grey meat and... the worst bit... veins :eek: - but I guess that's the risk wherever you are....

Julie - for me, it's definitely the sun that makes all the difference - so much easier to put up with a grey day every now and then, it's just not the same as the UK sun - that milky white thing hiding behind the clouds during winter - here it seems to beat down so HOT that even on cold days if you're in the sunshine you can strip to tee's - just cover up before you hit the shade..!!! Puts me in mind of sitting out on the deck at a ski resort - such huge differences in temps out of the sun!!!

[Avalon]

Don't they have bacon in NZ?? Not that I get to eat much bacon now, but I do enjoy a nice smokey bacon sandwich now and again, with a runny egg on too mmmmmmm
Well thats a thread in itself. My main problem is that they cure it with honey or sugar. If I wanted something sweet - id eat Chocolate and have done with it. I want bacon to taste like MEAT - not syrup.

Also the cut is different - and you do get a lot more fat and a lot less meat. Not so much a problem for me - but some dont like it.

Im not a fan of beehive - and had basically given up easting the stuff - but Theres a new Pig on the block ;) . Freedom Farms. Free range bacon - and guess what - taste as near to UK bacon as ive found here.

[K&CS]

Moorf - couldn't agree more. Craig actually managed to burn his face when we were sitting having a hot chocolate at that restaurant by Scarborough Park (it's a hard life). Since we've been here, I can count on one hand the number of dull days we've had. The sunshine makes a huge difference to your mood and I can get my washing dry most days (a huge bonus). As you say though, in Canterbury, we're very lucky because we get very little rain here (thank god for the mountains, eh?)

Kate

PS interesting thread this. Goes to show how we all differ when it comes to our views of blighty and nz

[Avalon]

out of interest..why not?
Oooh - had to go check what id said.

Anyway - what i meant was that I had been worrying that if id gone back to the UK too soon - I would not be settled enough with life in NZ and want to stay in the famililar UK.

The reasons why i neednt have worried are pretty much what i wrote in the first post. Essentially discovering that even though id only been here 15 months and not 3 years when i was planning on heading back - I still already thought of NZ as home. Although the UK is familiar, and my old friends are there - my life now IS in NZ. I have a home here, and friends here and I did want to come back.

Does that make more sense?

[Diny]

I had one served up that had chewy skin, grey meat and... the worst bit... veins :eek: - but I guess that's the risk wherever you are....



Oh dear God !!!!!! Pass me the bucket.

[ruthyroo]

The only decent bacon I have found in NZ is from the Farmers Market in Dunedin... double smoked, not too sweet, proper fat and crisps up nicely because it's not injected with water and preservatives.

Sorry for thread highjacking!

[pleccy2000]

Oooh - had to go check what id said.

Anyway - what i meant was that I had been worrying that if id gone back to the UK too soon - I would not be settled enough with life in NZ and want to stay in the famililar UK.

The reasons why i neednt have worried are pretty much what i wrote in the first post. Essentially discovering that even though id only been here 15 months and not 3 years when i was planning on heading back - I still already thought of NZ as home. Although the UK is familiar, and my old friends are there - my life now IS in NZ. I have a home here, and friends here and I did want to come back.

Does that make more sense?
YES.. thanks. I thought that you meant neednt have worried to back to your friends wedding, but now its all clear! Nice to know that NZ is the right place for you!

[Carol]

Great post!

We were staying in Martinborough while you were away!!!

Anyway....
One of the things I noticed straight away in the UK - especially walking through malls or shopping centres - was the total lack of eye contact.
In fact - I'd go so far as to say people avoided looking at you at all.

Did you find that Avalon?

I just found it really odd being used to walking through a mall and or down the main street and being smiled or nodded at regularly.

Also - I just felt a sense of unease somehow.....almost as if "something" was about to happen.......usually in crowded places. But I had no idea what it was.
Didn't like it though.
So with you on the whole history thing though....... I ached for it on my return to NZ.
I just took it all for granted so much.....
BEWARE current UK residents......MAKE THE MOST OF IT!!!!

Carol:D

[markyspark]

Really liked your post, I can remember times like that at Tesco's and we stormed out in a huff too. Its funny but I think it would do me the world of good to go back for a holiday to weigh up life in both countries. Sometimes its easy to forget just how bad and good the UK is. I think for me its more to do with the 'system' - it just grinds you down. If we were all truly free and could live where we wanted to in the world with no worries and no questions asked wouldnt that be great. Its never going to happen though...

Anyway, I just might go back for a visit and some decent sausages - they really are not nice here. And as for the Kiwi barbecue, well I dont think they are adventurous at all - we really had a barbecue back home, loads of variety not just a bit of steak and a sausage in a bit of bread ! BORING

Anwyone had the same experience ? What are Ausiee bbqs like ?

Mark

[Diny]

Anwyone had the same experience ? What are Ausiee bbqs like ?

Mark

Much the same - obscene (sp) amounts of meat but with a few prawns thrown on for good measure. I agree, the great land of the BBQ's do seem pretty dull compared to the ones we had back home.

[StevieD]

BBQ's - Don't forget a bottle of sherry for the sheila's :laugh

And how could I forget iggs, and fush and chups, we speaking like that already and we haven't even sold the house!! When I was pigging the wushing to the line in the gales yisterday, had to wonder where our spring was.... not very springlike at all here :(

[Avalon]

One of the things I noticed straight away in the UK - especially walking through malls or shopping centres - was the total lack of eye contact.
In fact - I'd go so far as to say people avoided looking at you at all.

Did you find that Avalon?


Pretty much, but what actually struck me more was the sheer mass of people. And the noise. To be honest - I spent more time trying to find a path through than looking at other people. Could that explain what is going on in the UK?

As with many of the great positives in NZ vs the UK - I wonder just how smilar things would be if NZ had the same population that teh UK has. Here we are not crowded in - and maybe thast what makes people happier to talk to you and look at you in the street.

[Avalon]

Much the same - obscene (sp) amounts of meat.
Bring it on!!!!!!

[David with a dream]

Fantastic post Avalon, just confirmed my own thoughts really and as for the weather its been wet (very) and cold all week end :wah . By the way we are now adding Hawkes Bay to our list of 2! Lesley said if you want any oxo's posting over you only have to ask :laugh .......Take care..David

[Diny]

As with many of the great positives in NZ vs the UK - I wonder just how smilar things would be if NZ had the same population that teh UK has. Here we are not crowded in - and maybe thast what makes people happier to talk to you and look at you in the street.

Good point. I always get quite frustrated when I read the zillions of NZ v UK postings. What people seem to forget is that society is no better over here than at home, it's just that there's fewer people.

We're all lucky enough to be here while the country is still growing, coming from a highly populated country we're obviously going to rejoice in the fact there's fewer people around who maybe have more time (and a clearer pathway) to make eye contact and say hello.

There will come a time when NZ has a large population, hundreds of high density public housing schemes and less and less green bits. It is, after all, a land inhabited by the human race.

Diny

[tottefan]

There will come a time when NZ has a large population, hundreds of high density public housing schemes and less and less green bits. It is, after all, a land inhabited by the human race.

Highly unlikely given current population projections. The current predictions suggest that the population of NZ will peak at around 4.8-5.4 million in 2050 and then start falling. This is as a result of the falling birth rate, which has fallen below replacement level for the first time in many Western countries. Therefore, NZ will always remain sparsely populated despite Auckland growing by about 300,000 or so.

Personally speaking, I find talk of population size irrelevant. Either people are nicer or just the same - does it matter how big the population is? In any case, I don't think it has an awful lot to do with population size but the values of the country's population. I find Chinese/Japanese students at all the universities I've been at have a great work ethic and are highly motivated and well-disciplined. This is despite coming from one of the most overpopulated countries on earth!


Tottefan.

[Diny]

Therefore, NZ will always remain sparsely populated despite Auckland growing by about 300,000 or so.

Tottefan.

Perhaps what I should have said is that I doubt this will be in our life times, or that of our children, but 'one day' I'm sure all the population projections will be blown out of the water. Perhaps I'm thinking too far ahead.

[tottefan]

But I doubt that the birth rate will suddenly explode after dropping - highly unlikely IMO. It's mainly as a result of increasing educational attainment and women getting more power in the workplace. Since this is unlikely to change in a century or mores time, the chances of it rising is highly remote - a point that all demographists seem to agree on.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

Yeah I understand what you're saying, however I think we're both talking totally different time scales here. You're right in what you say regarding demographics, but I still believe that 'one day' (without putting any relatively short term time scales on it) that NZ will become hugely populated.

The thing is, there's no real point discussing the population of NZ in the long term future because neither of us will be around to say to the other ...'I told you so'. How about we agree that 'short term' the population will remain low, and in the long term it won't - I'm happy with that anyway.

[tottefan]

Well I agree that in the short-term NZ's population will remain low. I disagree with your assertion that NZ will become heavily populated in the long-term, however. I think at best it is uncertain. :p

Put simply there are too many factors to consider in the long-term. Will technology change? Will women continue to put off parenthood to pursue a career? Will immigration figures explode? Will there be a nuclear war which kills off most of the world's population? The list goes on. Suffice it to say, hoewever, that if current societal trends were to continue in the long-term, then the population would start falling in 40-50 years time. :laugh ;)


Tottefan.

[Avalon]

Personally speaking, I find talk of population size irrelevant. Either people are nicer or just the same - does it matter how big the population is?

Well, yes and no. Some peopel are just plain mean and nasty. But on the whole, especially when talking about New Zealand - the size of the population really does seem to make a big difference to what people see..

How many people think New Zealand is fundamentally a safer place than the UK because crime rates are lower here? Well of course crime rates are low - theres only 4m people here. However (and im not a stats expert) - figures do tend show that in fact more crime is commited per capita in NZ than in the UK. It SEEMS safe - because we dont see that much crime compared to what we would see or hear in the UK.

So if people perceive less risk , they tend to be happier. Also, the fact that you can wander round and not be barged into every 5 minutes does seem to make a difference. Im not sure its quantifiable though - just an observation.

I hope that makes some sense - I think I need some more coffee - my brain hurts :wah

[tottefan]

But when people perceive lower risk, they usually have good reason to IMO.

Take my home town compared to say Hackney, London. I don't need to consult crime stats, which are probably manipulated by the government anway, to know that my home town is safer than Hackney. For a start, there is less grafitti, vandalism, litter and people are generally less aggressive.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

For a start, there is less grafitti, vandalism, litter
Tottefan.


My immediate thought on this is that the reason there is less grafitti, vandalism and litter is because there's less people in your home town to actually do the grafitti, vandalism and drop litter. Maybe if you said your home town has none of the above 'problems' then I could be convinced that population figures have no standing in this discussion.

However, I'm with Avalon - my brain hurts.

Diny

[tottefan]

Actually my home town has a pop. of around 100,000, so it's by no means small. It does have all of those aforementioned problems, just to a much smaller degree. There are still loads of young people within a small, confined area.


Tottefan.

[tottefan]

I'd also like to stress that I'm not saying that I think NZ is better/has nicer people than the UK. I actually find the UK to not be as bad as many people make out. I certainly don't feel threatened or anything. I've also never been to NZ before so I can't really make a comparison between the two countries.

I was just trying to argue with the point that smaller population = nicer people/less crime. There are too many densely populated countries with a nice population, and too many sparsely populated countries with a dodgy population for this to be the case.


Tottefan.

[Diny]

I've also never been to NZ before so I can't really make a comparison between the two countries.
Tottefan.


Ahhh I see. I was under the impression that you were already here in NZ (having a blonde moment). I still fully understand and appreciate everything you're saying, but going soley on statistics can sometimes be abit 'suss'. Maybe your thoughts will change a little once you're here in the lap of reality - maybe they won't. Either way, I for one have enjoyed this discussion and thank you for it.

Diny

[Avalon]

I was just trying to argue with the point that smaller population = nicer people/less crime.

Well, thats odd. I think you need to put this in context a little.

Generally - people DO have more time for you in NZ than in the UK. MAny of us have observed this. I happen to think its because theres more space, and its doent take as much energy to wade through the hoardes of people. I did notice s marked lack of conversation and aknowledgement - which I have not found since moving here.

However - I have never said that the smaller population = less crime. In fact - I was kinda trying to show that in fact its the opposite. Per Capita - NZ has higher crime rates in some areas: rape particulary is twice as high here it seems. And dont get me started on viloence agains children in NZ :mad: It is just PERCEIVED to be safer becasue there are a lot less people, so as an individual you are less like to see it yourself.

The smaller population makes it FEEL safer for many people.

Maybe thats why they talk to you in the street - they dont fear you and they dont think you are about to do them a nasty!

[katandbob]

There will come a time when NZ has a large population, hundreds of high density public housing schemes and less and less green bits. It is, after all, a land inhabited by the human race.

Diny


Diny I seriously hope that NZ doesnt get like that and that they dont cash in the countrys future for short term gain....

heres to good planning management and green open spaces for our great great grandkids!

(I know, sentimental fool I am - but I am a country gal at heart and have always loved big open spaces - and you dont get many of them in Lincolnshire!)

Kat

[willsken]

rape particulary is twice as high here it seems.

This I have read somewhere is something to do with how things are categorised differently in NZ than they are in the UK. Not saying that it is or isn’t high over there, but in the UK things are brushed under the carpet to a great extent. Willing to stand corrected but I know I have read this and for the life of me I can't find the site. :roll

[Avalon]

Certainly could be. Thats the problem with stats - you just cant trust them.

[Smiler]

Not only that, in the UK IMO, historically crimes like rape were rarely reported so have not been realistically shown on statistics. Hence the rise in reporting when sentences got tougher and more protection of victims was offered. A similar scenario with the protection from harassment act of 97, more stalking etc crime being reported and action taken.

Also there seems to be a staturation point with regard to news reporting and the major horrific crimes take headline news, while other similar crime isn't as strongly reported, maybe the racial aspect or the news worthiness isn't there for the media. Joe Public doesn't get to hear about it, maybe only if you are local to the area.

The wonderful thing about this forum is that we have gone from Avalon's 3 weeks in the Uk to being able to discuss all this.

[willsken]

Also there seems to be a staturation point with regard to news reporting and the major horrific crimes take headline news, while other similar crime isn't as strongly reported

There just isn't enough room on the front pages of the British papers...... they are far too interested in the size of the boobs of the porn star in the new Big Brother house :mad:

[Avalon]

Sorry - just cracked me up. I needed that!

[StevieD]

Which porn star?

[willsken]

Have no idea of her name ...... just she supposedly has the biggest implants in the UK. Old trout by the look of her pics - must be a retired porn star! :laugh

[willsken]

Which porn star?

Tell your cow to put his tongue away! :laugh :laugh :laugh

[StevieD]

I think I know the one you mean, she was supposedly 20 stone and was badly ridculed. So she decided to lose a load of weight and gain some surgically enhanced appendages to treat herself. Saw this in the F-I-L's coz he is addicted to the show. I can take it or leave it, but suspect Jan may get lured in again. :roll

Getting back on thread, Jan and I were discussing this the other day, the way the news here always seems to be gloom and doom. I know that is often the nature of news, but it just seems as if we revel in being miserable. Don't know if it is like that elsewhere, or whether we are just reading things into something that isn't there. And talking of being miserable, what about our weather!! OMG, grey as far as the eye can see today and rain, rain, rain......

[willsken]

Yes I know what you mean about the rain. It's really starting to get me down :no

[zardell]

And talking of being miserable, what about our weather!! OMG, grey as far as the eye can see today and rain, rain, rain......

Yep...rain AND wind, wind, wind too.

Just got home from taking Dinah (the dog) across the fields and in the wind chill, it certainly felt a lot, lot colder than the 12c degrees its supposed to be today.

Come back to the UK Diny........the weather, at least for a few days, was really good whilst you were here !!

Julie

xx

[zardell]

Mmmmmm......just reading this thread from the beginning and thinking to myself 'Mmmmmm, typically British.......we are obsessed (and quite rightly so) about the weather aren't we?'

Wonder if we'll change once we get to NZ ?

Julie

xx

[StevieD]

Doubt it! :laugh

[treen74]

Re - Big Brother 7 (UK). Here is the "lady" some of you were talking about -

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/housemates/housemate_news.jsp?id=11



yuk!!! 35? Schyeahh.......

[marcia]

Re - Big Brother 7 (UK). Here is the "lady" some of you were talking about -

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/housemates/housemate_news.jsp?id=11



yuk!!! 35? Schyeahh.......


Yep £35k down the drain in my honest opinion - she just looks so 'false', but then i suppose she is, even her hairs not her own!! By the looks od her fce she may have had a face lift too!!

I'll stick to my saggy boobs (after 3 kids what do you expect) and my 'happy lines' around my eyes, at least it's me!!!


I have to put my hands up - I'm a BB addict, just love to watch these nutters subject themselves to dictatorship, all in the name of fame!!! I say every year I'm not watching again but then end up getting hooked!!

[zardell]

Re - Big Brother 7 (UK). Here is the "lady" some of you were talking about -

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/housemates/housemate_news.jsp?id=11



yuk!!! 35? Schyeahh.......



Well, if thats 35 so am I...........oops forgot......I'm only 34 !! :D

Yeah, alright.......so I've had a hard life...... :roll

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Well, if thats 35 so am I...........oops forgot......I'm only 34 !! :D

Yeah, alright.......so I've had a hard life...... :roll

Julie

xx

She does seem a little older than that!

[zardell]

She does seem a little older than that!


Do I know you ??

Oh and while I remember Nic, my grand daughter believes I am 34 so......
ssssshhhhhhh !! :p

Julie

xx

[Smiler]

Yuk! That's barking.

[K&CS]

My, that must have been some paper round she had!!

It's so unfair that I'm missing out on this. Mind you all that Craig/Anthony business last year didn't make for nice viewing. Yuk!!!

[StevieD]

Seen nicer things on a lead walking around the park!! :laugh

35 - I think that is the years she has slept :laugh

Sorry, but there ain't no way she is 35

There is an even bigger bunch of nutters this year. There is a guy with Tourette's, a gay Scot Pakistani who introduced himself as the 'paki poof' (seriously!) another one who wears a vest and cowboy hat who looks like an extra out of a Pet Shop Boys video - u can guess that he isn't interested in women? and another sorry bunch of losers, out to make themselves a reputation and bucketload of money. I despair when I see that Jade 'I'm fick me' Goody getting yet another tv programme now. It is tosh, but I know you can't help watching them when the tv is on in the room.
Trying my best to keep my eyes on the pc screen....

Steve :)