[pieeater]

Not read much about the 'Treaty of Waitangi' on this site. I would recommend all prospective migrants take a look at this and consider it, as it applies to the fundamentals of life here.Remember also that you will be an 'immigrant' here.Think about how you feel about immigrants in your home country and transpose those feelings onto yourselves.

[Diny]

I remember one elderly NZ gent commenting (when the treaty was mentioned) .....

'ah yes, the time Victoria rogered the Maori'

Not the most PC thing to say but it's always been one of those comments that have stuck in my mind.

Diny

[StevieD]

We are not expecting to go to NZ and be a burden on society, getting handouts and housed just because we have turned up, to change it into "Little Britain". This subject has been flogged to death on this forum before now and I don't particularly want to go down that path again.
Yes, most of us do know we will be immigrants, and will respect the values of that society. We do not expect to go there and push our weight around, to get grace and favour in return for no input into that society. It seems you have tried it and didn't like it, don't expect everybody else to feel the same way. Life is what you make of it, and given the chance, we will try and do our best.

As a point of interest, wonder where you are living/have lived in NZ? Maybe that colours your thinking on NZ in some way..... just that your profile is a bit lacking in information.

[willsken]

We are not expecting to go to NZ and be a burden on society, getting handouts and housed just because we have turned up, to change it into "Little Britain". This subject has been flogged to death on this forum before now and I don't particularly want to go down that path again.
Yes, most of us do know we will be immigrants, and will respect the values of that society. We do not expect to go there and push our weight around, to get grace and favour in return for no input into that society. It seems you have tried it and didn't like it, don't expect everybody else to feel the same way. Life is what you make of it, and given the chance, we will try and do our best.

As a point of interest, wonder where you are living/have lived in NZ? Maybe that colours your thinking on NZ in some way..... just that your profile is a bit lacking in information.

:yes

[pieeater]

Hey Mr Angry,what's eating you?Your'e going to have to chill out a bit if your'e going to fit in down here. I'm not running N.Z.down.There is some really good stuff going on down here, cant wait for the Jazz and Blues festival at Paihia and the Tandoori Palace in Rotorua does a mean Chicken Bhuna,Grandpa's dry cured bacon from the Mad Bucher is delicious if a tad expensive and Stubbs butchers in Warkworth does a pretty good Pork Chipolata, so see,it's not all bad.Don't know why you seem so angry.I never mentioned half the stuff you are on about.'Come one come all'as far as I'm concerned some like it some don't.Pretty much like most of the migrant friends I have, there are moments when wild Horses wouldn't drag me out of here and others when I feel isolated and frustrated.Hi Diny my wife and I laughed at your tale,that was the kind of stuff I expected.I'll profile myself more later with all the gritty stuff if anyone is interested.

[Avalon]

Stevie D seemed to be answering your post - not getting angry.

You ask us to remember we are migrants, which im sure the vast majority of us are only too aware of; and to transpose our feelings of migrants at home onto ourselves. Stevie has done that - all those things he says he will not do - those are things that bug him about migrants back home; and things he seems determined not do as a guest as this country.

I hope that makes sense.

[dawn]

I agree with Avalon, I read Stevie's post, it seemed to me he was replying to you too.

Just so you know, most of the people on here are well-versed with the Treaty, it doesn't mean that we talk about it everyday, that's all.

[marcia]

Couldn't have put it better myself Stevie!!!

Pie-eater, all of us know we will be 'immigrants' but to be the kind the country will welcome!

I personnally feel that using the word 'immigrant' to a person is a derogatory term, and would only use it myself about a person i felt to be a burden to the country.

However I may have to bite my tongue and just hold my head up if it is a term that people use about me when we get to NZ, one of the many things I may not like, but am prepared to accept!

I will take the good with the bad and just accept it as a whole! :nice1

[Diny]

Hey Mr Angry,what's eating you?Your'e going to have to chill out a bit if your'e going to fit in down here.

Oh no no no. Stevie is a personal mate of mine, believe me, he doesn't need to be told to chill out. I know for a fact he'll fit in just fine. He wasn't being 'confrontational', he was just stating a few facts.

It works for some, it doesn't for others. I'd like to put my money on the fact that whatever the outcome of Stevie and Mrs Stevie they'll give it their best - and will contribute 100%.

There's a very good advert of TV over here in NZ which says 'know me before you judge me' .............. how true !!!!!!!!

Diny

p.s. Just got back from a very boozy 50th birthday party at the local rugby club - hope all of the above makes sense.

[katandbob]

Not read much about the 'Treaty of Waitangi' on this site. I would recommend all prospective migrants take a look at this and consider it, as it applies to the fundamentals of life here.Remember also that you will be an 'immigrant' here.Think about how you feel about immigrants in your home country and transpose those feelings onto yourselves.


Quote from StevieD...
We are not expecting to go to NZ and be a burden on society, getting handouts and housed just because we have turned up, to change it into "Little Britain". This subject has been flogged to death on this forum before now and I don't particularly want to go down that path again.
Yes, most of us do know we will be immigrants, and will respect the values of that society. We do not expect to go there and push our weight around, to get grace and favour in return for no input into that society. It seems you have tried it and didn't like it, don't expect everybody else to feel the same way. Life is what you make of it, and given the chance, we will try and do our best.

As a point of interest, wonder where you are living/have lived in NZ? Maybe that colours your thinking on NZ in some way..... just that your profile is a bit lacking in information.

Pie eaters Reply With Quote

Hey Mr Angry,what's eating you?Your'e going to have to chill out a bit if your'e going to fit in down here. I'm not running N.Z.down.There is some really good stuff going on down here, cant wait for the Jazz and Blues festival at Paihia and the Tandoori Palace in Rotorua does a mean Chicken Bhuna,Grandpa's dry cured bacon from the Mad Bucher is delicious if a tad expensive and Stubbs butchers in Warkworth does a pretty good Pork Chipolata, so see,it's not all bad.Don't know why you seem so angry.I never mentioned half the stuff you are on about.'Come one come all'as far as I'm concerned some like it some don't.Pretty much like most of the migrant friends I have, there are moments when wild Horses wouldn't drag me out of here and others when I feel isolated and frustrated.Hi Diny my wife and I laughed at your tale,that was the kind of stuff I expected.I'll profile myself more later with all the gritty stuff if anyone is interested.

Your first post was designed to cause a debat/confrontation, and so was your reply to steves post - and Steve (who I is a person that I have yet to see get Angry!) wasnt being angry, he was just stating a fact that has been flogged to death on here...the fact that we will be IMMIGRANTS....he was stating the fact that most migrants from the UK are NOT the ones that want to create a 'little britian'....we're escaping it and hopefully finding a community that we can integrate into and become participants in a young country.....And for your information....AS PROSPECTIVE and CURRENT MIGRANTS...WE HAVE information on the Treaty............AS it comes with the information sent by the NZIS!

and if we did post about it on this site, it would probably be taken the wrong way anyhow!

seeing as though you are a new member, maybe you should put more info on your profile.......it seems rather lacking and this give me the impression you are on here to cause controversy rather than constructive information.

correct me if I am wrong, and I look forward to you posting the reasons to why you are coming back?? or To the UK after 5 years???.........

oh an you mentioned your son being 15....you do realise that if you have to have lived in the country for 3 years before starting Uni or you have to pay international fees........(see thread called UNIVERSITIES)....although you could say you are an asylum seeker then you'd get everything Free!

kat

[zardell]

[QUOTE=StevieD]
Yes, most of us do know we will be immigrants, and will respect the values of that society. We do not expect to go there and push our weight around, to get grace and favour in return for no input into that society.QUOTE]


Enough said.

And Pieeater, if you actually knew StevieD as I do, believe me, if he was any more chilled out, he would be comatose !!

I believe that Steve and the others that have responded to your post have done it in a very level headed way, without loosing either their temper or their respect for other forumites.

If on the other hand your post was not meant to cause the response that it obviously has and it was posted in an innocent way and just describing your point of view, well then, that is fair enough too.

This after all, is a forum and everyone has a right to contribute their own viewpoint, but not at the cost of upsetting or purposefully trying to belittle others - that being a statement Pieeater, not an accusation.

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Remember also that you will be an 'immigrant' here.

After going through the last few months of stress, I for one won't be forgetting that in a hurry!!! ;)

[steviec]

I have to agree with all the replies so far. The idea that all immigrants should be classed the same is wrong. There are migrants that travel thro numerous countries to end up in the UK to be 'looked after',just like there are many people born in the UK who choose to let the state look after them.
I choose to look after my family and myself whatever country I am in and not rely on the state.

[StevieD]

Just read the post, no, not angry at all, just making an observation. And as my friends on the forum already know, most of the family wouldn't be interested in meat curries or whatever as they are vegetarians. Wouldn't mind the jazz and blues festival as I love playing blues on my guitar - and you can't get much more laid back than jazz and blues :)

I suppose people who emigrate to the US should be fully versed in the US constitution, or when coming to UK take our "citizenship" test, yes, we have read about it, and the treaty is just another example of Victorian stealth, a bit like trading beads for gold.

No, perfectly chilled here cooking food for tomorrows party ;)

[Diny]

I choose to look after my family and myself whatever country I am in and not rely on the state.

Well said !!!!!! No matter where one lives, immigrant or not, as long as you are able bodied, the idea of constantly holding out your hand and being wet nursed by the state is, IMHO, disgusting.

Diny

[Smiler]

I feel proud to be here in NZ, called an immigrant or not, both of us working, paying taxes, and contributing to NZ life.

In the UK but I worked my sox off for years and saw handout after handout to immigrants, illegal and otherwise, who wouldn't get off their backside, preferring to live off my wage packet contributions, while our OAP's did not receive a decent liveable pension. Just one example.

We recently went to Tepapa and the immigration exhibition. It showed statistics on a huge wall sized timeline and I again felt proud that in the future I would be part of that statistic and have left my mark in NZ in some small way.

We didn't come here for Britain, little or in anyway, quite the opposite.

[montana]

This has mainly been a discussion b/w those coming from the UK but having just come from America where we are having a massive immigration debate, I thought I'd join in.

The problem most "natives" seem to have with immigrants is their ability or inability to assimilate, and whether or not they are contributing toward the system. Certainly no one is going to feel welcoming towards people that aren't willing to pull their weight, or insist on imposing their particular culture onto everyone else. That's fair enough.

The other side of the coin is that immigrants bring diversity (which to me is a good thing) and eventually break down barriers and stereotypes which make for ridiculous assumptions and violence, maybe even making the world a better place.

Also, everyone has their own reasons for going somewhere else. I don't think it is right to judge someone else's reasons for wanting a better life.

So, there's my two cents. No answers but another viewpoint.

[Avalon]

I don't think it is right to judge someone else's reasons for wanting a better life.
.

Have to applaud that statement.
:clap :clap :clap

[StevieD]

Quite right montana, excellent post - notice the US has just significantly increased troop numbers on the mexican border. Immigration will always be a thorny issue, and there have been many valid points on here.
However, the initial post was about the Treaty of Waitangi and whether the members of the forum have read it and digested the implications of it. I think many people will have done so, because it is in every book about New Zealand that I have read.
At the end of the day, to immigrate into a country is for people to integrate IMHO. It is when the immigrant doesn't integrate, which rankles with people. That is what I fully intend to do. I don't want to be a member of an exclusive expat club, saw enough of that in my days in the navy, but that is not to say that I will shun expats! ( Had some fantastic times at old colonial gentlemen's clubs :) )
Forewarned is forearmed, I think I know of the issues involved there, and we are quite willing to give it our best shot.

[Moorf]

At the end of the day, to immigrate into a country is for people to integrate IMHO.



Sooooo true.... I think of all the things that have given immigrants into the UK a "bad" rap and make sure I'm not guilty of that here - i.e moaning about how they do things, moaning about weather, moaning about salaries etc all things where I wanted to shout at immigrants in the UK "go home then if it's so great there...." ...

The first time I was called an immigrant here it was like smack in the face - it's only happened once and it was wasnt meant in a derogatory way - more of a "ohh, you're an immigrant are you" - but it's very strange as I hadn't, until that point, thought of myself in such terms although, quite plainly, I am...

Ramble, ramble... too much viiino... *hic*

[Smiler]

At the end of the day, to immigrate into a country is for people to integrate

Well said. :clap

[pieeater]

Well said Montana.Some of you seem to have got the wrong end of the stick with me,it's normal my wife does it all the time.We came down here in 2001 after enduring all the hassles with NZIS much as yourselves.Like most of yourselves I have never been an immigrant before.I was just attemting to provoke thought with the immigrant question as we found we were the subject of a fair bit of hostility from the locals,"coming down here with all our money, pushing the prices of housing up (I Wish)"taking jobs off the Kiwi's" etc.etc.And there is definitely an anti Asian thing going on here and when they have a go at them they are also having a go at me as I see them as I see myself just people just seeking out a better life for themselves.As for the Treaty I was just attempting to point out how influential it is to our lives down here.If you are going to take your life down here seriously it becomes part of it.It is a living document so to speak and a bit of a hot potato at times as there are still many unsettled claims.Pretty much like the Islands we live on here,the crust is firm but there are things bubbling just under the surface.Hey Stevie D.With mates like you've got on here you'll do well anywhere,I felt like I was being mauled by a pack of mad dogs for a while there.Have a great party.

[willsken]

With mates like you've got on here you'll do well anywhere,I felt like I was being mauled by a pack of mad dogs for a while there.Have a great party.

:laugh Well, he deserves them!

[marcia]

Yeah - Stevie is part of a group bigger than the three muskateers!!

All for one and one for all!!! ;)

[starkhorn]

And Pieeater, if you actually knew StevieD as I do, believe me, if he was any more chilled out, he would be comatose !!



I was going to make a response to this thread but then I've read the above line and I haven't been able to stop laughing. Brillant post Zardell! :)

[zardell]

I was going to make a response to this thread but then I've read the above line and I haven't been able to stop laughing. Brillant post Zardell! :)


Thank you.......lol.

I'm glad I made you smile..... :D

Julie

xx

[willsken]

Like most of yourselves I have never been an immigrant before.I was just attemting to provoke thought with the immigrant question as we found we were the subject of a fair bit of hostility from the locals,"coming down here with all our money, pushing the prices of housing up (I Wish)"taking jobs off the Kiwi's" etc.etc.And there is definitely an anti Asian thing going on here and when they have a go at them they are also having a go at me as I see them as I see myself just people just seeking out a better life for themselves.As for the Treaty I was just attempting to point out how influential it is to our lives down here.If you are going to take your life down here seriously it becomes part of it.It is a living document so to speak and a bit of a hot potato at times as there are still many unsettled claims.Pretty much like the Islands we live on here,the crust is firm but there are things bubbling just under the surface.

Pieeater, despite a somewhat rocky start on the forum :D I would really like to hear more about your life and experiences in NZ. We are all going into the unknown, be it to varying degrees and it is always helpful to hear people’s different stories. From the posts you have made to date you have obviously experienced good and bad. It would be great to hear more about your life and where you are living! :nice1

[NannyOgg]

I'm with Nicola.
Rocky start but intriguied (sp).

Nanny.

[katandbob]

I'm with Nicola.
Rocky start but intriguied (sp).

Nanny.
:D yep, come on you have got us all intrieguied and were not really a bunch of wild dogs....were cute puppies!! :laugh

Kat (well I'm more a kitten really!)

[StevieD]

Good thread this innit!! :laugh Don't know about being laid back as I can nark with the best of them (just ask Jan and the kids!) but tend to be a bit of a "live and let live" type of person, yes.

Like the vision of a pack of snarling dogs ( and kitten! )

Steve

[StevieD]

Oh, and thank you, the party was fantastic. Our little girl looked a dream again, but the big surprise was Kieran. He was strutting his stuff all over the place, like a real party host, shaking hands, hugging people, dancing, singing, taking the mickey out of one of our friends who has a penchant for the Kung Fu fighting song when she was younger (big mistake telling us that) He even went up to the DJ on his own, asked him to play it and danced his way through it doings some of his Ju-Jitsu katas - all the time ribbing his mates mum!
And not forgetting one particular moment, when Amarillo was played, he and Jan "did it for Kim" leading a conga round the club 'a la Brierley' at Beth's (Jo B) party last year - see you may be 12000 miles away but we still managed to think about you lot :)
Good day but very tiring. I only managed to do YMCA then I tripped on one of Jan's old aunts walking sticks and twisted my knee (how ironic is that?)
Steve

[Cardiff Irons]

Don't you believe 'em pieeater. That StevieD is a nasty piece of works and I reckon your cards are well and truly marked.;)

I like this thread, particularly the theme of emigrating and integrating, rather than emigrating and asking your host country to integrate with you. I'm past being amazed at the antics of the apologists in the UK, so lets just say the fact that Blackpool Council have banned cabbies from displaying English flags, wearing shirts with England, 3 lions etc. DURING THE WORLD CUP does very little to surprise to me.

Welcome pieeater. Good to have you around.:nice1

[StevieD]

(Stevie D just sharpening his cut-throat razor :mad:)

Oh my God - whatever next?!!! We had that a few years ago here in Liverpool, loony councils and St.Georges flags - quckly back tracked saying it was a health and safety issue....


Forgot to mention that Kieran was arguing with his mum who could lead the Amarillo conga, and when they went past Louisa, she just tutted and said - 'That's so embarrassing'!! Cheeky lil' moo :laugh

What all this has to do with the treaty is anybody's guess, but what the hell :)