[spudulike]

Thanks for the good wishes. I agree that in another 6 months I am likely to feel more settled and I fully anticipate enjoying life whilst I'm here.

Having read accounts of the school system I am reluctant for my children to begin their education here as it would appear they will be behind their peers when we return to England - please don't anybody take offence if they do think the education system is good. I've read lots of threads on this forum and to be honest it does worry me and I don't want to take the risk. I had to struggle to get a good education as my family were not too interested or concerned and I want my children to have the very best of opportunities. I do fully believe though that for pre school children NZ takes some beating.

The more I talk with ex pats the more I realise I am not alone in feeling the move will not be permanent. I am adamant I will not turn into whinging pom whilst I'm here :laugh but I'm not going to pretend that it's a perfect place either as I think I'd be more stressed not talking about things.

Anyway, enough rambling and thanks for the welcome.

Louise

[K&CS]

I have a couple of friends here who are British and taught in the UK (but haven't taught here) and they are definitely of the opinion that the teaching is far better in the UK. I have no idea whether or not this is right - I'm very happy with the girls' school. Funnily enough I have a kiwi friend here who is married to a Brit and they are returning to the UK for a few years, but she's determined to be back before her daughter starts school as she wants her to go to school here, so that she has all the same opportunities she does. Funny how people can look on things so differently. However, as Diny says, there are plenty threads about this and I certainly don't want to hijack anyone's thread.

There are lots of expats where I live and a lot arrived at a similar time to us. I have to say that we seem to be the only ones who are looking on this as a permanent move - everyone else seems to talk all the time about 'if we return to the UK...' or 'we'll stay for 2 years and then go home'. I'm really not sure about the statistics for people returning to their home countries within a couple of years, but I think it's pretty high (but apparently a lot return no NZ at a later date). Just remember, nowhere is perfect and if there was such a place, no-one would be able to afford to live there!!

All the best

Kate

[Diny]

Having read accounts of the school system I am reluctant for my children to begin their education here as it would appear they will be behind their peers when we return to England - please don't anybody take offence if they do think the education system is good. I've read lots of threads on this forum and to be honest it does worry me and I don't want to take the risk. I had to struggle to get a good education as my family were not too interested or concerned and I want my children to have the very best of opportunities.

Louise

After struggling for a year with the NZ education system I've come to realise that the best way to describe it is 'totally different' to the UK. There are some aspects of schooling over here which are a delight, but I have to admit that these things are largely connected with the 'social' side of schooling. As far as the academic side of the coin is concerned I'm far from impressed. I've recently looked at alot of other schools and have realised that they (appear to be) much of a muchness - I'm talking about WHAT they teach here - not so much the individual teachers (of course these will vary from school to school). My problems are that my boys are repeating work they did up to 2 years ago back at home. Again today my eldest came home from school saying how boring lessons were today because he's already done it. The fact that his lessons are part of the national curriculum is the point that concerns me - NOT so much how he is being taught.

I think that if I was dead set on staying in NZ forever the education issue wouldn't be such a biggie. However, with the thought that we 'may' return in the next couple of years or so means it IS a biggie. I've seen the 'level' of work their peers in the UK are doing (on a recent trip back to UK) and it's in a different league.

On the other hand, there are many many families who have come to live over here who are more than happy with the education their children are getting. I guess it's very much an individual thing - all depending on what experiences of school they had before - what they want for the future and what is best for each individual child.

There's no right or wrong, no good or bad ........ you just need to go with what makes you happy as parents, children and as a family.

Diny

[Carol]

I read a very interesting article in a teaching journal lying around the staffroom this week written by a teacher who has just spent a year teaching in the UK and has just returned to NZ.

A FEW of the main points he was making were:

1. He couldnt wait to get back here!!
2. He hated the "rigidness" of the National Curriculum in the UK - there was no room for teaching to the moment - the example he gave was that he was there during the National Election - but it was never ever mentioned because the topic he HAD to teach was Tudor England.
3. There was no room for "reflection of learning" and the "next steps in their learning" were just a mystery to the kids.
4. Reading was taught quite haphazardly compared to the rigorous testing done here using Running Records, Asttle, STAR, PATs and AToL (Assess to learn)
5. Handwriting was an incredibly formal process - culminating in most written work done on the computer now anyway...

but the most worrying thing to me.....

6. SATS had completely taken over in terms of learning. Teaching revolved around them and teachers taught to the tests much of the time.



Got to be honest - it was everything I wanted to escape from.......
:roll

[sizzlingbadger]

A friend of my in laws is looking at getting out of teaching in the UK now. She said it's the same rigid work every year. The same things are taught every year to meet the curriculum and she's only in teaching 5 and 6 year olds ! She teaches disabled/difficult children and says with all the rules she can't even give them a cuddle in the classroom in case she's had up for sexual harrassment or assault, in some ways this is what we wanted to escape.

School, in the UK, has become to formal and it is very exam orientated to the extent the basics of learning and social skills are ignored. My OH will tell you that my use of english is awful, I was never taught it at school it was always ignored.

Okay kids here maybe backward with their work and it will always be a worry to parents that are wanting to go back to the Uk in the future. I like the free flow of work primary kids do, it fits in with the kids much better and they're much more likely to knuckle down and do the work. An example of this is that at the beginning of Term 1 Class 1 and 2 became interested in the crysallis (sp) on the plant outside their classrooms so much so the teachers decided to bring the subject into their teaching and so the kids learnt all about how butterflies become what they are and everything around that subject. I've never seen my son so excited when he came home telling me what they were going to do over the next few weeks. The kids art work is still on the walls and they're still talking about it a few months on. That's what good teaching to me is all about.

[Diny]

[QUOTE=sizzlingbadger]
Okay kids here maybe backward with their work and it will always be a worry to parents that are wanting to go back to the Uk in the future. QUOTE]

I think this is my biggest concern.

There will always be a for and an against discussion regarding this subject. I honestly feel that there is no right or wrong, what some parents will consider is a good education for their children, other parents will consider not so good'. Some will prefer the more casual approach that NZ offers, others will prefer the more traditional approach in the UK.

My children NEVER felt stressed at school in the UK so the point that schooling over here is less stressful is abit of a non-starter for us. Mine would sit around the dinner table in the evening and talk with much animation about what they had done that day at school, ask them now and they usually just shrug and say 'old stuff'.

I strongly believe that everybody needs to 'test the water' for themselves on this one. One persons good/bad experience isn't going to be the next persons good/bad experience. There's alot of people who are delighted with the education over here, and (going by the PM's I get - maybe because I'm particularly vocal about this subject) there's a good number of forumites who are NOT delighted.

To repeat - no right or wrong - no good or bad - it's just what suits you and your children.

Diny

[Carol]

Okay kids here maybe backward with their work


oh my god!!!!

I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my time in a classroom.

:wah
There is no more "backward work" here than there was in ANY of the school I worked in in England.

[Delson]

"SATS had completely taken over in terms of learning. Teaching revolved around them and teachers taught to the tests much of the time"

Year 6 at my son's school is purely teaching the kids to get good grades in their SATS. Nothing else is taught. This only makes the school look good. They make them work so hard and the kids really miss out on the social aspect of school in their last year of Juniors.

"She said it's the same rigid work every year. The same things are taught every year to meet the curriculum and she's only in teaching 5 and 6 year olds"

There are 5 school years between my sons, my youngest will come home and say he's done such and such at school, my eldest will turn around and say I can remember doing that and then you will do...... 5 years is a long time and for nothing to change in the class room cannot be good for teachers or students.

This will not happen in just my son's schools as all schools follow the National Curriculum.

[NannyOgg]

There are some aspects of schooling over here which are a delight, but I have to admit that these things are largely connected with the 'social' side of schooling.

I have to say that I love the fact the social side will take a more important role in the school day that the academic part. Both of my kids have consistently been in the top groups in the UK, and I myself started a Degree course a couple years and I do know the benefits of a good aducation. BUT the benefits of being able to socialize and fit in with your peers far outway the benefits of getting a slightly higher grade than your friends kids (IMHO)

I can immediatly think of one family I know - both kids grown up - one is off the scale academically but very highly strung and no where near at ease socially as the younger child who has always struggled with academic work, but he will never want for a roof over his head or food in his mouth because he is a social creature and people LIKE him. Despite the fact he didn't get good grades.

Now it would be great if my kids could have BOTH but if I had to opt for one or the other it would be social skills everytime. When I think about my own choice of freinds they have not been picked because of thier IQ (in some cases that is quite apparent! :D ).

I'll get off my soapbox now!

Nanny xxx

[Diny]

Yeah I understand what you say, and I can honestly say that neither have I ever picked my friends because of their 'academic stature' - I hope I don't come across as being that shallow - heaven knows I'm no Brain of Britain !!!!

I too would love my children to be top of the class academically and socially - who wouldn't? I've long realised I'm considered abit 'odd' because I feel that the '3 R's' are more important than 'kicking balls' - I make no apologies for that.

Like I said earlier, the best way to describe NZ schools and UK schools are to say they are VERY DIFFERENT. Some will delight and embrace the difference, some will be uncomfortable with it.

Our school has a new website http://www.ashhurst.school.nz/site/gallery and I've posted this link so that you can see the photo gallery - it's this part of my kids school life over here I love - I will be the first to stand and say this is how it should be. My youngest son is the last one on the right in the Anzac day pics ... the one with the line of kids each holding a wreath (proud moment).

How about I say I'm VERY happy with 50% of my kids schooling ... surely I can't be considered odd for that?

Or can I?

Diny

[NannyOgg]

Sorry Diny!

Was in NO WAY saying you were odd - just used your quote because you mentioned the social side of schooling which appealed to me!

Myself and all my friends have just gone through all that 11-plus rubbish trauma over here - yes we still have it Kent. My son took it and failed it - thems the breaks - but we have friends in the same situation who have done appeals and all sorts and it is just such an awful and system for them all to go through I just think it is all too much.

I obviously have no idea yet what it is like in NZ but over here I often hear too many parents moaning about the schooling yet do very little help thier kids at home - what's that all about eh? :confused:

I have read many different experiences on here about the change in kids when arriving in NZ some good, some bad but the one that warmed my heart the most was be someone, I forget who, that said that within weeks they had thier kids back - and that is the bit I am looking forward too most. :D


Nanny x

[Diny]

No need to say sorry - words on a screen are just that - and hey - I can be a little odd !!!

I'm sure you'll be fine ....... and like I say, there's lots here I do like.

Diny

[NannyOgg]

Forget NannyOgg - I should have called myself NannyOdd! :nice1

[spudulike]

I feel as though I've caused disharmony on the board, I am sorry if that's the case :uhoh I think I have to agree with Diny about what I hope for with my own children. I feel that children are attending school for an education not to spend most of the day socialising - I don't mean they shouldn't have fun at school as of course they should. However, the school system is there so children can learn and therefore they shouldn't be coming home unchallenged and bored - that in my opinion is the fastest way to fall behind.

I agree that whilst the UK system can be too far in the opposite direction it really does come down to how you can balance things at home. I know that my children will have an active social life and attend sports clubs and groups outside of school hours and holidays because my husband and I will encourage that. We don't spend hours in front of the TV and don't intend for them to. If we were to remain in NZ permanently I don't think it would be an issue as my husband was told today by a secondary teacher that they work them harder between 11 and 16 to make up for the deficit. Obviously they will then catch up but I think it's a hard way to do things. My biggest worry is that they start school in the UK at 7 or 8 and are already behind their peers as that could flavour their entire school life.

It's not easy being a parent :uhoh and all of us do what we feel is best for our children. I hope I haven't caused offence.

Louise

[NannyOgg]

Hardest job in the world parenting!

Tell me girls - am I the only woman in her late thirties, who when their child has come home from school and another kid has been horrible them, that has to repress the urge to go and get that 8 year old by the scruff of the neck behind the bike sheds and threatern them ? Possible even give them a chinese burn? :confused: (OMG Do you remembmer those?!)

Nanny xxx

[Kim39]

I for one am glad to get away from the UK educational system, yes we want the best education for our children, yes a child has to learn, and the best way imho is to learn through fun and play. Diny, you say that the boys were never stressed at school, and that is because you left the UK before they had to take their "sats", then you would have seen them under pressure, from Christmas that is all that is spoken about, what grades they need to "pass", homework doubles, after school sessions for maths and english begin, hey they are only children, then the "sats" begin, I overheard one child wish they were dead because of the pressure, then if they don't reach the "grade" do you know how soul destroying that is for a 10 year old? Nicola has never been very good at English, maths is her subject, but she put her heart and soul into her "sats" and was 2, yes just 2 points short of a level 4, but no they only gave her a level 3, and to see the devestation on that childs face, and it doesn't just last for the time of the "sats" either, it is for the rest of their schooling, as they have "sats" again when they are 13 only with even more pressure put on them. I am so glad we don't have to watch Hayley or Nicola go through that again.

Elaine (Kim 39's OH)

[marcia]

Hardest job in the world parenting!

Tell me girls - am I the only woman in her late thirties, who when their child has come home from school and another kid has been horrible them, that has to repress the urge to go and get that 8 year old by the scruff of the neck behind the bike sheds and threatern them ? Possible even give them a chinese burn? :confused: (OMG Do you remembmer those?!)

Nanny xxx


Yep know the feeling well!!!!!!!!!

In fact waiting to see how Ayrton has gone on today! It came out in the medicals that his eyesight wasn't as good as it should be, so a trip to the opticians and he is slightly short sighted, so need glasses for 'boardwork' at school.
We collected them yesterday and today will be the first day he has to wear them!

- anyone teases him and I'm gonna bop em one!!!! :D

I am glad my kids won't be in the Uk to do the sats at the end of Juniors - I know at our school the whole of year 6 is spent doing old test papers!! :no

[Lupin]

An example of this is that at the beginning of Term 1 Class 1 and 2 became interested in the crysallis (sp) on the plant outside their classrooms so much so the teachers decided to bring the subject into their teaching and so the kids learnt all about how butterflies become what they are and everything around that subject. .... The kids art work is still on the walls and they're still talking about it a few months on.

How funny, a video in my OU course included a UK teacher lamenting the loss of the days when a bird's nest brought into school by a child became the focus for the children's "work" for the ensuing week.

So far everything I've read about NZ education has been thoroughly heartening...even that which maybe wasn't intended to be so :D

Am I wrong in thinking that NZ education rates as second highest in some global ranking score (stop me if I'm getting to technical, lol)?

[Carol]

I am glad my kids won't be in the Uk to do the sats at the end of Juniors - I know at our school the whole of year 6 is spent doing old test papers!! :no




I know at our school the whole of year 6 is spent doing old test papers!! :no


As a direct comparison -
The year 6's in our school have studied so far this year: (that I can remember)
The Commonwealth Games
Stamps - their origins - and designed their own as part of a competition
Letter writing - structure and different types of content
An online reading challenge
Cross grouping for numeracy (I've taught some of them with my Yr 7 and 8s to extend them and teach them at their level)
Measurement
Argument writing
Statistics - incorporating their basic facts scores and how they have increased as the year has gone on - published in Excel and displayed. (with pride!!)
Many opportunities for interschool sports events
Fund raising opportunities for their end of year camp including running school discos and studying profit and loss.
etc etc

Yes it sure is different.


Backward in their work?

um..........I believe not.
Pressured? Absolutely not.

[Carol]

My problem with the whole NZ v UK system comparison is as a teacher I am so passionate about what I do I cant help but get defensive.

I know for a fact - the majority of those teachers in the UK will be passionate too. Teaching is a vocation not a job at all.
There are always going to be "better" teachers than others. What suits one child is an awful experience for another.

But....... I hate the very idea of SATS with an equal amount of passion.

It would be interesting if doctors and nurses were "judged" and hospitals "rated" on their successes (and "failures") wouldnt it?

[Lupin]

Hey Carol...hospitals are now "judged" and it's had the EXACT same effect as testing on education has had.....there have been improvements in the very narrow defines tested, to the detriment of the whole :(

Keep posting your experiences of NZ education Carol....they're encouraging and exciting :yes

Down with SATs and league tables, Up with topic-based learning! :nice1

[StevieD]

Carol - very interesting views as always. What I can understand for people who move is that you tend to compare everything, prices, education, petrol; In my book the children in the UK are burnt out by the time they are 12 or 13, their heads are so crammed solid with stuff that they just shut down. My little girl has just made her first holy communion a few weeks ago, and in the week leading up to the event she had assessments all week. They were doing the tests that were given to the year above to assess their progress. The children were so stressed out in what should have been a very exciting and enjoyable week.
As far as kids coming home bored, our eldest has been doing that for years because he isn't being challenged. OK, he is very bright, but as long as the school get their scores then the school are quite happey to let them get along, because borderline cases can be given extra attention to "get the score up". Gone are the days when bright kids are pushed to make them excel, at least in this school.

We had a lengthy meeting with the head teacher over a different matter, but we got on to the subject of ofsted testing. The school had just been lambasted by the inspectors, failing miserably in their report. The reason? Admin wasn't up to scratch in the new admin system that had just been foisted on the schools! Nothing to do with teaching, nothing to do with students, just the administration system. Teachers have to set aside 10% of their teaching time to complete admin, so for a 40 hour week that is 4 hours teaching being wasted on paperwork. A stand in looks after the children while they go off and push paper. Nothing to do with teaching but amassing statistics for the government to use in their "aren't we good" propaganda. The teachers are fed up with it all, and I don't blame them one bit, I feel sorry for them. I understand how they feel because the same thing happened in further education years ago when I was teaching.

[Diny]

Teachers have to set aside 10% of their teaching time to complete admin, so for a 40 hour week that is 4 hours teaching being wasted .

Good point. Which reminds me, my youngest sons class is having a 'stand in' teacher for 4 weeks after the upcoming holidays because his teacher is going off on a jolly with her boyfriend around the USA. I think teachers deserve every holiday they get from school and I'm fully aware that they have to put in alot of 'admin' hours ..... but 4 weeks off in term time for a holiday ...... I find that abit odd. I'm not the only parent who's 'up in arms' about that one.

This is a very interesting thread, 2 very opposing 'sides' (for the want of a better word) - both sides manned by die-hards fuelled by genuine beliefs and emotions .... that's what makes forums like this so interesting.

I'm fully aware of all the 'admin' hours that have to be put in, and I think I'm right in saying that a huge amount of admin has to be done over here too - how can an institution of any kind survive without it. I know the balance can be 'way out' but the point I am trying to get across is this ..... after all the 'admin, stats, red tape' issues have been put to one side, my gripe is with the actual 'level and balance' of academic work which my boys are doing here. Other parts of school life are great.

I know that alot of people are very happy with the schooling over here, I am very happy with parts of it, but putting all the other issues aside, I still make NO apologies for being concerned over my boys loss of enthusiasm and apprant backwards slide since getting here. I challenge any parent who experiences the same to not get 'emotional' about it.

As for NZ being 2nd in the world in education league tables - I understand this is true. It was once explained to me like this ...... scoring a goal through posts that are very wide is easy, scoring a goal through narrow posts is a much harder challenge .... but at the end of the day they are both classed as goals. Don't shoot the messenger !!

Anyway, I'm sure I will never change peoples views (and that is NOT my intention), and I know that others will not change mine, I speak from my own personal experience - it will be different for others. The fact is that my boys are now repeating work they did up to 2 years ago and they have lost their 'oomph' ....... yes I believe when it comes down to the nitty gritty 3 R's they have fallen behind.

Rant over.

Diny

[mossum]

Hi Diny ,

Have you thought about approaching school & asking that your kids be moved up a year - I was moved up a class at primary school in NZ & a couple of others too - mind you it was the 70's so things may have changed a fair bit . Just a thought .......

hth vic x

[willowshouse]

I have read all these posts with growing interest .. I have a daughter just finishing Yr 6 in London and I totally agree with the other parents who have said that Yr 6 is SAT's only. In her school they took approx 18 children out of a total 30, out of class for make-up lessons .. every day until they were satisfied that standards were met. Unfortunately this is the culture over here and I would be the first to admit that whilst I want my daughter to love learning and study things that interest her .. this year what I really wanted (want, as the results are not out yet!) is a top SATS result. I'm not really sure why as I already know she's a smart kid but to have that 'seal of approval' just seems important.

This leads me on to a question, for Diny and all other NZ parents .. Is there any sort of recognised programme in NZ for stretching academic children? Over here we have a 'Gifted and Talented" programme .. more for secondary school really... does NZ have an equivalent?

Dawn

[StevieD]

Diny, you know I'm not getting at you, but I think this education discussion is going to go on and on, and wasn't this Jo's thread about being home??!! :laugh

Better hand it back methinks

[Diny]

Yeah you're right (although I'm sure Jo would be very interested in the way the topic has gone as I know she was almost more 'disheartened' than me as far as Beth & Kurts schholing was going). But I shall take a tap on the knuckles and bow out (I'll take the rap for all the others in the discussion too shall I? ... he he he).

Diny

[sizzlingbadger]

Carol

Sorry, didn't mean backward with their work (came out a bit wrong :uhoh ). Meant to say that NZ pupils probably aren't on the same par as UK students BUT by the time they leave school they're probably better educated than UK pupils. (Not wanting to cause any more arguments or disagreements :D , had a really off day yesterday and just wanted to give it all up and swallow my pride and go back to the UK, just a spiral of things that got out of control, feeling a lot better about things again today)

willowhouse,

Yes they do have a testing system to see if a child is gifted. A friend of mine has just been through it with her 4 year old (yes 4 ! Not her choice but her ex partner put pressure on her to get him tested). He came out in the top 1% for some subjects and top 5% for others. He has a mental age of 7-8 years old. It costs quite a bit of money to be done but we're considering sending my 3 nearly 4 year old eventually as she's socially gifted (just what people have told me). It does cause problems though as they need extra lessons, you have the option of sending them to a totally gifted school etc, etc, all extra money. But then it begs the question as my friend has said of what life will he lead, more than likely a very lonely one if she alienates him from his friends now, big moral dilemma for her to sort out.

[spudulike]

It's interesting to read everyone's view on this subject. I do think moving children up a year isn't the answer as they may be academically ahead of their peers but socially need children their own age which kind of leaves them in the middle of nowhere.

As for paperwork, after 4 years training and being paid to do a professional job then a certain amount of paperwork and accountability should be expected. Lets not forget that during the days of freedom of teaching many teachers were not held accountable for results and the standards of education were appalling. SATs have become all consuming for parents too who want their children to be top of the class which is a shame. I do think that whilst wanting my children to do well I hope I don't get all consumed by it.

Everyone has their own set of beliefs/reasons for their decision and all are equally as valid. I'll certainly take my children back to the UK but can understand peoples reasons for staying here too.

Jo - sorry for hijacking your post.

Louise

[Tia Maria]

Can't resist adding my opinion to this thread!

I have to agree that the NZ & UK systems are different, rather than better or worse, and I really don't think you can go that far wrong with either. But for Your particular child and Your particular family, you will probably find one system suits better than the other.

Just like some children suit coursework, and some suit exams. Some prefer subjects like maths - which have right and wrong answers, others prefer subjects which require discussion. Some perform better with strict teachers, some with enthusiastic teachers.

Unfortunately, you don't always have the luxury of letting your children try both, before you decide. So you have to go very much on anecdotal evidence and gut feeling (I'm sure there are also international surveys on education).

One other issue to consider is location. Where we live in NZ, we have access to much better schools, than where we lived in the UK. But maybe the opposite would be true for others.

Both my 2 are under 5, and I can say their pre-school experience has been amazing in NZ, and it was far better than anything on offer in the UK. But also, I would honestly be happy for them to continue their education in NZ, or in the UK, (although we would move back to be nearer a better school!).

Cheers

Tia

[Diny]

I have to agree that the NZ & UK systems are different, rather than better or worse, and I really don't think you can go that far wrong with either. But for Your particular child and Your particular family, you will probably find one system suits better than the other.

Just like some children suit coursework, and some suit exams. Some prefer subjects like maths - which have right and wrong answers, others prefer subjects which require discussion. Some perform better with strict teachers, some with enthusiastic teachers.


Cheers

Tia

Sorry Stevie - don't get mad at me (I'm not adding anything further but) just wanted to highlight Tia's above comments and how I think they are spot on.

Diny

[StevieD]

No I not mad at all - far from it. You know what it is about these forums, it sometimes seems as if you are saying something but people cannot see facial expressions or the tongue held very firmly in cheek. This could go on and on, and these are all valid points., but the proof is in the pudding, and we are sure we will find out when we get there, the differences between the systems. Maybe we will get a "told you so" then, but we have to accept our lot and the kids lot too. We get the feeling Louisa will flourish because there isn't so much pressure it seems, but time will tell.

Not angry at all Steve :laugh

[Marie P]

My kids school had parents evening this week .

Actually it was called a 3 way conference which I thought was a great idea as the child gets to come too and hears what the teacher and parent gets to talk about and they were able to show me their work that they were proud of.

Louise's teacher told me that she was way behind in her reading,never heard that from her UK teacher ,her NZ teacher said she fought for Louise to get extra help ,normally not allowed for European kids,but she got it for her and Louise has come on leaps and bounds.

[willowshouse]

Carol

Yes they do have a testing system to see if a child is gifted. A friend of mine has just been through it with her 4 year old (yes 4 ! Not her choice but her ex partner put pressure on her to get him tested). He came out in the top 1% for some subjects and top 5% for others. He has a mental age of 7-8 years old. It costs quite a bit of money to be done but we're considering sending my 3 nearly 4 year old eventually as she's socially gifted (just what people have told me). It does cause problems though as they need extra lessons, you have the option of sending them to a totally gifted school etc, etc, all extra money. But then it begs the question as my friend has said of what life will he lead, more than likely a very lonely one if she alienates him from his friends now, big moral dilemma for her to sort out.

mmm .. not quite what I had in mind. I agree wholeheartedly with your comment .. what a life to be alienated for being clever! When my daughter was small and got really positive comments on her 'school-work' I asked my OH if we should consider one of the specialist schools to stretch gifted children (anxious first-time mum and all that) and he was quite certain that the very worst thing to do is to put that child in an environment that is too academic as they really miss out on social education. No, what I wanted to know is if, within the relatively normal confines of the school, there is some kind of recognised system of highlighting children who are at risk of not being stretched within the normal curriculum and taking appropriate measures to ensure that they remain interested and challenged .. but not necessarily hot-housed to be the future prime-minister! Here it takes the form of 'master classes' on weekends in quite specialist subjects and summer schools in a particular area of interest. The kids still stay at their normal school, but I think the idea is that if you can keep them interested in learning their opportunities for future study and work become much wider.

[veronica]

I've read this all with interest, not because I have school age kids but because I am interested in kids and education. Due to both our kids being dyslexic (but both having a high IQ) we ended up teaching them at home til they were 11. We did a couple of hours a day on what could loosely be termed work, they went horse riding, clubs, visited interesting places and events etc. After 5 years of child based learning it was very interesting that when they went into school for the last term of primary school they were at a very similar academic level despite the dyslexia to their peers. This was in the UK with its 'superior' education and measuring them against kids that had been at a good school (ie. turned out a lot of grammer school kids) for 6 hours a day against their two hours loose academic lessons.

Its very easy to forget that a lot of learning has no measuring stick in the way of exams, stuff that is not easily quantified. Its learning a broad spectrum of things that are practical, general knowledge, how things work, what happens if..., a way of thinking etc. Some kids are bored if they haven't got standards to meet, exams to get good grades in but are they learning stuff for themselves or to meet the expectations of those around them. Do they learn for the pleasure of it without even realising they are learning things. The social side of it too is educational.

Some of the children I have met over the years in home education have proved over and over again that education is such a small part of life but learning is such an ongoing adventure and that can't be measured.

In saying this I am not decrying what teachers do, just upholding what Carol and others have been saying, the SATS etc in England is strangling education, teachers just spend all the time gearing the kids to get good results in the tests and don't have time to let them learn, the kids get stressed at an age when they shouldn't, IMO, even be thinking of being tested, given homework etc. let them be kids first, they spend a lot of time being adults. A child who skips to school happily is going to learn a heck of a lot more.

[Delson]

Excellent post Veronica, I totally agree with your comments.

[Lupin]

I agree wholeheartedly with you Veronica :)
I home educated my daughter for 18 months and she currently attends school under a flexi-time arrangement. She keeps ahead of her full time schooled peers without doing anything other than what her interest dictates outside of school. She still loves to learn, which is rather uncommon amongst her peers :(

[Carol]

I've just spent the last 4 hours putting together videos of kids' work to show at an assembly tomorrow. (I've got nothing better to do on a Sunday night ;) )

Interestingly - the one my class have done is their own adaptation of "Jump Jam" - a fitness programme that is popular in NZ schools at the moment.
THey did it to Michael Jackson's "Blame it on the Boogie"


Now I often wonder what they say when they go home about "What they did today".

I very much doubt they would say:

Striving for Accuracy - getting the timings right.
Using knowledge we already had and applying it in a different format
Co-operation
Reflection - by using video to watch our moves to improve them
Listening to and understanding the opinions of others
Using and applying our sense of humour
Celebrating our success by sharing with others.
Raising our heart rates to around 65% of our maximum levels
Using our musical and body/kinesthetic intelligences along with our interpersonal and intrapersonal skills


And yet - that is the list that THEY came up with when I asked for statements to share with the audience.

I bet they said...
"nothing much - just a bit of PE"

;)

[marcia]

let them be kids first, they spend a lot of time being adults. A child who skips to school happily is going to learn a heck of a lot more.


Totally agree there. ;)

I think as long as they can read, write, add up and take away, a basic knowledge of the world around them, they will be fine, they can progress into finding out more about the areas they are particulary interested in as they get older, let them have fun while they are young!