[Gretchen]

My husband and I received our PR in March and had hoped to be in NZ by now. Since I still have not received a job offer, we decided to make a trip over so I could interview for jobs, we could look at houses and get a better idea of what daily life would be like in NZ. Unfortunately, we had a terrible experience and have decided that moving to NZ will have to wait.

The biggest frustration was with employment recruiters. I have been in touch with several recruiters over the past year and was looking forward to meeting with each in person. I also contacted a few new recruiters. I contacted each of them about three weeks prior to my trip with the expectation that they would have time to arrange for interviews with potential employers in advance since I wasn't going to be in country for very long. I was amazed that not one single recruiter had arranged for an interview prior to my arrival, even those recruiters who told me before I got to NZ that they were going to start making calls on my behalf. In each meeting, the recruiter was like "OK, great to meet you, now I'm going to make some calls and get some interviews for you." In a few cases, I got a call for an interview after I had left the city! I also had two recruiters tell me that my CV was all wrong for the NZ job market. That's fine except that they didn't tell me until I actually met them in NZ! If I had known prior to my arrival, I could have changed my CV.

As for housing, I was shocked at the cost of housing in NZ. Given the salary ranges of the position I want, there is no way I could buy a house. Since NZ does not have an equivalent of a 401(k), basically I could afford a mortgage and that's it - no contributions towards a nest egg, let alone the ability to send our boys to Montessori school (which they attend here in the states).

My husband and I were prepared to scale back our lifestyle when we moved to NZ. We don't live extravagantly now but we do have a pretty big house. We were ready to get a much smaller place and a much smaller car with the hopes that other aspects of our lives (and our boys' lives) would be much improved by living in NZ. Unfortunately, the financial obstacles are too big to overcome. We would be just scraping by, we feel.

On a good note, we really enjoyed our vacation. I guess we were just meant to visit!

[Debbie]

Thanks for the post, if you don't mind I have a load of questions for you.
What do you and your OH do?
Where were you looking for work?
What did the agent say needed to be changed in your CV for the NZ market?
Did you find that the houses cost a lot more than they had been advertised for? NZ house pricing is an area I can't get my head around.

Glad you enjoyed your visit, so much better to find out NZ isn't for you at this stage than later. Again thanks for the information.
Debbie

[Glo & Gil]

Interested to know in what field were you searching for job?

Pls try to answer Debbie's post, this might help a lot

thks

[SoCal Gal]

I'm sorry that things didn't work out as you had hoped for, Gretchen, but I do appreciate your honesty. It is so easy to get caught up in the New Zealand dream, and then, some realities can hit pretty hard for anyone who's circumstances aren't just so. The housing thing I can totally relate to. Unless you are coming from a place where you've made a killing on your house sale, prices are steep, in my opinion. But it looks like a lot of people are fortunate enough to come over with a good nest egg, and unless you want to carry a big mortgage, or don't mind renting, that's what you are looking at. I especially think for us Americans, NZ can be very appealling in an almost romantic way, such as "a lot like home, in all the better ways" and then when you get there, things can be different. We are still trying to make the move, but we won't move without PR, just too many scary variables. We have some close friends in NZ, and that helps a lot with the little things like setting up interviews and formatting CVs, but even when I went on two interviews in person - not with agencies, with actual employers - I was still told "would love to talk to you when you move here" even though I tried to be as polite as I could in my "I really need a job offer" stance.
So, I really am happy for people when it all works out - got PR! Sold house! Got job, car and new house in first week! - but for a LOT of people it doesn't work out that way. I really understand where you are coming from.
All the best, and I am glad to hear that you had a beautiful vacation.
SoCal Gal

[Gretchen]

Hi Debbie,
I work as a senior business analyst. My main expertise is in the healthcare industry but I was able to get an interview with Telecom while I was in Auckland (one recruiter was actually much more helpful than others - Clare O'Sullivan at Pinnacle Recruiting) but they wanted me to have formal training. I was very surprised to hear that since, in my experience, when you work in IT you are either a programmer with a CS degree, a project manager with PMI certification or you're not, i.e., it doesn't matter what your specific qualifications are - you just learn through experience which is how my career has progressed. At any rate, Telecom seemed like a good place to work except that they did not have much opportunity for advancement and the salary was way too low for me to be able to live in Auckland. My husband is a stay-at-home Dad.

I met with recruiters in Auckland and Wellington although, prior to my arrival, I had already decided I wanted to work in Wellington. It seems to be the more popular choice (especially in these forums!) and I can see why - it's beautiful, much smaller than Auckland and the cost of living is much more reasonable.

As for my CV, two of the recruiters said that it need to be much longer - like 5 or 6 pages. Although other recruiters I met with said my CV was fine (more confusion for me!). I got two different messages: I needed to add significantly more detail to my CV because that's what employers wanted to see AND no one wants to read a long CV so keep it to one page. (One recruiter actually said to me "when I read your resume on my computer, I saw everything I needed to see, but when I printed it out I thought 'it's just one page'"! and I was thinking, if you read what you needed to read, why does it need to be longer?) When I asked for examples of CV's so that I would know what needed to be changed, both of the recruiters told me that they did not have any. I was starting to think this was all a way of the universe telling me not to move to NZ - well, that and the torrential rain storm in Wellington which lasted our entire stay!

As for housing, I had researched a number of areas on line prior to visiting and they were all pretty expensive. Maybe I just had high hopes but I was thinking that surely we could find more affordable neighborhoods once we got there. Unfortunately, what we were looking for was way out of our price range. We just wanted a modest house, maybe 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and the other basics, in a nice neighborhood where we would feel safe letting our kids run around with the neighbors. What we learned is that will cost you about $550,000 NZ even if you are willing to commute for an hour or more to Auckland. For us, buying a house that expensive would mean we had to spend every penny we made selling our house here in the states even though we had hoped to use some of those profits to cover the cost of the move itself. Plus, given the salary ranges ($80K - $95K) we could just barely cover the mortgage and basic living expenses, but would not be able to save much. Also, the mortgage rates in NZ are out of control - you can get a two-year fixed rate of 7.5% or a longer-term rate around 9.5%. That's a big difference from the 5.5% we have now! Plus, the higher rates mean we probably could not borrow as much as we could here in the states.

Wellington had much more reasonable housing costs and since it's a smaller area, even living in the suburban neighborhoods did not seem like much of a drive.

My husband and I are thinking maybe we are just too spoiled to live in NZ! We want to scale back our lifestyle but there are certain things we are not willing to give up: sending our kids to good schools and saving for retirement. It just seems that moving to NZ right now would jeopardize those goals.

The other thing I noticed is that for many of the neigborhoods we could afford around Wellington, I felt like I was in the states. There is a fine line between wanting a new cultural experience and still feeling comfortable. For example, moving to China would definitely be a cultural experience but the comfort level would not be there right away. At any rate, after looking at different neighborhoods I started to feel like we were going to a whole lot of trouble just to move somewhere that is very similar to home but without any friends or family around.

SoCo Gal - I also got the "call me when you get here" line! Here is a good story: I met with one recruiter on my first day in Auckland. I had told her that I would only be in town for 3 days and she said she would make some calls. She starting calling me frantically about a week after our interview - both at home and on my cell. When she finally got in touch with me, she said "I got you an interview" and I said "great!" and she said "they want to see you Monday morning at 9 am" and I said "see me? I'm not in Auckland!" and she said "when are you coming back" and I said "when I get a job" and she said "well, this is an interview for a job". I was shocked!

Thanks for listening!

[clg]

Sorry things did not go as planned! When we did our recon trip we left with a job and a relocation packaged but still a lot of doubts, I was not really sure if I was willing to give up everything that we had in LA. If I did not have the job I don't know if we would have come.

Recruiters are not all that great here, I have met some good ones but also lots of not so good ones. This is largely because they don't have to do a lot of work with the job market the way it is. Many vacancies here have an immediate need so they want someone living here that can start ASAP. We are doing some recruiting from overseas right now but that is only after we could not find people here and the whole process will take 3-6 months to find someone and get them here which is a long time, we need help now. We are only doing this because it is so hard for us to get people. FYI if anyone out there has good statistical experience, degree and work experience PM me we are hiring! Overseas is OK and we do relocation packages!

On CV's I did a sort of compromise on mine and it is about 3 pages but the first page is the part that really matters as I see it. It seems to go OK and I have not had any negative comments from it. Seek.co.nz has some examples. What I did was cross my US resume with my US academic CV and that seemed to work well.

Cost of living here is highly variable depending on what you are expecting and so it looks like you did a good job of examining what is right for your which is good! If you come over with a good nest egg it makes things much easier obviously. One thing to keep in mind here though is that public services are much better than in the US (at least in California) so things you had to spend a lot for there you will not have to here. This place is wonderful for kids.

On saving for retirement, there are some schemes here but nothing like a 401k closest is something offered for Govt workers and the kiwisaver coming next year. Most common form of savings here is a house, and possibly an investment property. The best tax break here is that on a second house.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Chris

[Diny]

after looking at different neighborhoods I started to feel like we were going to a whole lot of trouble just to move somewhere that is very similar to home but without any friends or family around.

Thanks for listening!

Very good thread - I particularly relate to the above comment. This is exactly how I feel about our move to NZ.

I love it here, it's a great place. But 'for me' it seems like we've gone through a massive amount of upheavel (at a massive cost) to end up in a situation which is certainly no better to the one we had back at home. It's no worse either - but the fact that my family and life long friends are missing makes it all seem very hard at times.

It was mentioned in a very good post earlier in the week that it's OK not to like everything about NZ - this is so true. For some the move here will be the best thing to ever happen to them, for others it will be a 'so so' experience (I think I fall into this category) and for others it will be a non-starter.

You were SO right to do a recce trip. In hindsight I feel that the best thing for us would have been to continue to holiday here on a regular basis (which we've been doing for years) and not to have gone into full blown immigration.

However, hindsight is a wonderful thing. We're here, we're certainly not unhappy, my hubby is a Kiwi, my kids are dual nationality and I qualify for citizenship (should I decide to take it) in another 2 years. We will always have a very close relationship with NZ no matter where we live in the world. And the world is huge place.

Diny

[banjan2]

Gretchen,
it would be better to contact potential employers directly.
as for your statement regarding moving to a place similar to home but without friends and family, i have to agree with you wholeheartedly. no point in moving unless there are more advantages in doing so.
Good Luck in your search.

banjan2
dunedin

[Avalon]

Gretchen,
it would be better to contact potential employers directly.


A lot of employers will not deal directly with applicants, only thorugh agencies. Its great if you can - but often you cant.

[veronica]

hiya I think the views on property prices very much depends on where you are from. Property prices here for those of us from the UK are cheap as the cost of houses in the UK is very expensive. Obviously property in the states is cheaper than the UK. Also it seems Auckland is more expensive than Christchurch. its all relative.

[spudulike]

hiya I think the views on property prices very much depends on where you are from. Property prices here for those of us from the UK are cheap as the cost of houses in the UK is very expensive. Obviously property in the states is cheaper than the UK. Also it seems Auckland is more expensive than Christchurch. its all relative.

I think I have to disagree with this statement somewhat. Property prices here are cheaper than London but not necessarily cheaper than the UK particularly as high interest rates mean you cannot borrow as much. I do believe as Gretchen has said that you need a substantial amount of capital to bring with you to not be worse off. That's just my opinion anyway :uhoh

Gretchen - I think this is a very wise decision to have made and I completely understand your sentiments. We, as a family certainly are not loads better off as we miss our friends and family. As Diny said I think it can be a so-so experience for some (us included). We have made the decision to return to the UK in 2 years and just enjoy the time we have here but there isn't enough here to keep us long term.

All the best

Louise

[just5me]

I hope our grand adveture doesn't disappoint us. I certainly don't want to go over just to live the same as we do here. We want to experience a simpler outdoors stlye live with lots less 'stuff' and less attachment to being at home. If that makes any sense!

[ruthyroo]

My husband and I are thinking maybe we are just too spoiled to live in NZ! We want to scale back our lifestyle but there are certain things we are not willing to give up: sending our kids to good schools and saving for retirement. It just seems that moving to NZ right now would jeopardize those goals.

Although we are a few years / life events behind you (no kids, retirement still seems very far away) I can see these two issues looming on the horizon if we stay in NZ much longer. We held onto our UK property - and are really glad now that we did as there is no way that we can save for retirement on our NZ salaries - and that's without having kids. No pensions, no tax free savings, no incentives to save in NZ that I can see. Just BTL properties, and landlording is not a game we want to get into.

There is a fine line between wanting a new cultural experience and still feeling comfortable. For example, moving to China would definitely be a cultural experience but the comfort level would not be there right away. At any rate, after looking at different neighborhoods I started to feel like we were going to a whole lot of trouble just to move somewhere that is very similar to home but without any friends or family around.

Totally agree - I've come to the conclusion that since we set off from the UK looking for an adventure we should have been braver and picked somewhere completely different from the UK - China, Thailand, South America. Instead we've ended up in a developing country that is like the UK / US 20 years ago. Different enough to be a challenge to adapt - but not a big adventure in a cultural sense. Just - as you say - like being at home, without family or friends around.

Well done on making what sounds like a very well researched decision - and glad you enjoyed the holiday! That's one way to see all the good bits without having to live with the downsides!

[Gretchen]

A lot of employers will not deal directly with applicants, only thorugh agencies. Its great if you can - but often you cant.

I definitely found this to be true. Whenever I found an interesting opportunity on an employer's website, I was directed to a recruiting firm to apply.

[Avalon]

The biggest frustration was with employment recruiters.

I contacted each of them about three weeks prior to my trip with the expectation that they would have time to arrange for interviews with potential employers in advance since I wasn't going to be in country for very long. I was amazed that not one single recruiter had arranged for an interview prior to my arrival, even those recruiters who told me before I got to NZ that they were going to start making calls on my behalf.

I also had two recruiters tell me that my CV was all wrong for the NZ job market. That's fine except that they didn't tell me until I actually met them in NZ! If I had known prior to my arrival, I could have changed my CV.


These are very important points - and we also found this to be the case. It can be very frustrating. Hubby also had agents calling once we had left the country asking for interviews.

On the whole, we found most agents lazy. They want the big money taht comes with placing someone, but dont want to go to any effort it seems. Which would make sense if they could fill the posts with someone in the country, but often they cant.

Even more galling is that pretty much as soon as you actually start a job here (after all that phenomenal effort), they dont stop calling you to get you to go to the next job they want filling.

CV's - yep we hit lucky in that hubby was told to change his CV in line with NZ tastes. Something he has passed on quite a bit becasue he now gets to read the CV's.

I wish I could say what you saw was not a usual case - but unfortunatley it seems it is.

Best of luck with whatever you do decide to do.

[Diny]

My word there's some very good threads on this forum at the moment. This one is helping to make me feel 'normal'.

It's no secret that I find our new life in NZ to be 'very nice' but not offering us any advantages over living back in the UK. I was truely starting to believe that I was the only person who doesn't see NZ as some kind of 'Valhalla'.

Please don't get me wrong, I think this is a wonderful country, but it just doesn't have that 'wow' factor for me when it comes to living here.

I know those of us who don't think that NZ is the answer to all our dreams are still very much in the minority, but I now know I'm not totally alone in my opinions.

I'd also like to add, that just because I fall into the 'so so' category it doesn't mean I'm about to book shippers to the UK and put a for sale sign up outside the house. For the here and know we're cool.

On the subject of recruitment agencies, I was a recruitment consulatant (pre kids), back in the UK (Aberdeen Scotland), mainly providing staff to the offshore oil industry. I think I have to agree with the fact that there are so many vacancies over here, hence the agents are very lax. There are an abundance of positions to fill, therefore they probably don't see any point in going that extra mile, both for the applicant or the client. In a situation where vacancies are like gold dust agents have no choice but to go the extra mile - and then some. When I had a 'usable applicant' on my books I treated them like gold dust and wouldn't rest (indeed couldn't rest) until they were placed within suitable employment. I would often send them out on temporary assignments whilst I was looking for a permanent placement for them, basically because once I had them on my books I didn't want them to register with anybody else - after all, they were my bread and butter - and I was theirs. Sadly, from what I am reading, that doesn't seem to be the case over here.

Diny

[Avalon]

Have you considered a career in NZ IT recruitment???? :)

[Diny]

To be honest no. I've been out of the 'industry' for 10 years and am fully aware that things have moved on in leaps and bounds since then. Also, apart from being abit of a (self taught) whiz on the old home pc, I have no qualifications in IT. However - saying that, once the 'terminology' is learnt and I become 'well rehearsed' in the modern day way of doing things I guess it's not such a bad idea. At the end of the day - looking at things in an over-simplistic way - the basics of finding employment for an applicant and vice versa will be pretty much the same as it's always been. Definate food for thought - thanks for that.

Diny

[Hannah]

Hi there, interesting thread...esp as we have returned to UK and are staying put for time being. High house prices were a big issue for my hubby - where we live (in the UK) our semi would sell for about £150,000 at the moment. Translated into kiwi dollars that's about $400,000 (minus of course the usual buying and selling costs - solicitors, survey, taxes etc). We looked around New Plymouth and found nothing equally as sound, large, well looked after etc. as our house here in the UK. Gardens were pitifully small compared to our garden here (1930's semi - back when gardens were gardens!!!). If we wanted something more than a space to put our washing line we were looking at going over budget. Prices had increased double, even treble in some areas , since 2003 when we first visited NZ and my hubby couldn't get his head around the fact that he would be buying a house up to three times the price it was back then while our UK house price hadn't shifted.

Add to that the cost of living was equal to UK while our salaries are lower......
Of course, when we were looking at houses back in January/February, the exchange rate was £1: $2.50 so the sale of our house would buy even less in NZ. Also,most houses were being offered as EOI, Auction, Tender etc. When we looked at them we were then told by the agent that the buyer was 'looking for bids over $600K' and we just felt that it was pointless looking. He couldn't get over the fact that he would be spending up to £200K on a shed on a plot of land - with the possibility that said shed could just blow away in the wind one day - nothing like a brick house blah blah blah....


That being said, I would move back to NZ tomorrow and live in a small house with a small salary. However, the ability to save for both our children's future, and our retirement, would be compromised and that was the final nail in the coffin of any potential decision he would make to move back to NZ. Shame really, because i miss NZ more and more - i'm sure i fitted in back there more than i do here in the UK (and I fancy getting back to some 'normal' heat, not all this 32 degree high humidity thing....doing my head in!!!!!)

As for employment agents I have no experience of them - however I did find that it took us ages to get jobs because the employment process was just so slow. Offered a job....wait a week for a letter.....get no letter.....call employer......wait another week and so on. In my case I waited 3 months from time of applying to actually get an interview...and then was asked if i could start that Monday as they were so desperate! As we sat eating into our life savings that was a really really frustrating wait!

[leigh31]

Very interesting and informative thread! Although I've only been here 2 months, I feel the same way as many of you. As an American, I found London more of a cultural difference than Auckland. Strange, but true. Maybe it had something to do with my age at the time, or maybe it's just that the british can be so darn charming!

I also found that the English had a real interest in me, and why I was in the UK. Nobody seems too interested here. Every once in awhile I'll get a question or two, but it feels different. Maybe it's because I'm in Auckland....?

I just feel like NZ is like the U.S. circa 1982 (without the Reagan-omics). To some people that's a good thing. I just find it a little behind the times. I think it's strange that there is an ad campaign in NZ right now to stop people from parking in handicap spots. Who does that anymore? AND...the NZ morning talk show hosts talking about it admitted that they sometimes do it!!! WHAT? That's just so crazy to me. And don't get me started on TV. Night Rider? MASH? Happy Days? Thunderbirds? These all went off the air in the 80's, but they are all alive and well here.

[willsken]

I think it's strange that there is an ad campaign in NZ right now to stop people from parking in handicap spots. Who does that anymore? AND...the NZ morning talk show hosts talking about it admitted that they sometimes do it!!! WHAT? That's just so crazy to me.

Sorry to say that this still happens where I live and it drives me up the wall. Never quite brave enough to say the things I'm thinking when I see it. :o

[Debbie P.]

This is going to sound very un-PC (and sorry to all you mums out there!), but what REALLY annoys me is the large number of parking spaces reserved for mothers with young children at my local supermarket. I do my best not to park in them, but sometimes am forced to after fornlornly wandering about the car park for 10 minutes. What gets me is that this isn't during peak shopping hours for young mums (well, I wouldn't have thought so, anyway), this is on the way home from work at 6.30.

Sorry, hijacking the thread here. But I'm SO SICK of the overcrowding of the UK, and particularly my home town. We have 200,000 residents in Bournemouth, and 50,000 of them are foreign students who come to the English schools and end up staying on because they don't want to go home. Nothing wrong with that (I'm NOT making a point about immigration here), but there just isn't the infrastructure in Bournemouth to cope with the increasing volume of people - roads aren't capable, car parks aren't big enough etc. Quite honestly, if people do use disabled parking spaces, I can guess the reasons why, even though I wouldn't do it myself.

[willsken]

But I'm SO SICK of the overcrowding of the UK

Spot on! Know the feeling well. I can't remember the time when ANYWHERE I have gone hasn't been really crowded. :mad: (I shouldn't complain really I'm making up one of those crowds! :o )

[Debbie P.]

Spot on! Know the feeling well. I can't remember the time when ANYWHERE I have gone hasn't been really crowded. :mad: (I shouldn't complain really I'm making up one of those crowds! :o )

Hey, but at least you're spending money on parking tickets, which the Council will of course put back in to supporting local services and infrastructure... allegedly!