[aorland]

I read the very educational thread about comparing life in the UK and in NZ, and hoped for some similar insight from the US perspective.

I am hoping some other US immigrates can help me understand the trials and tribulations of moving to NZ. Beyond the obvious what are the best/worst parts of the migration? Are you experiencing a better life in NZ then in the US and why?

I understand everyone has a different reason for moving and different expectations but I still would find the insights useful.

Some high-level details:

My wife and I are in our mid-thirties, live in San Francisco and are currently in the residence visa process to immigrate to NZ.

We spent three weeks traveling in NZ and just fell in love with the country. We started the residency process for many of the same reasons already posted by others; cost-of-living, better place to raise children, lifestyle, etc. After what I read on the other thread, I am beginning to question those assumptions.

Although we currently do not have children it is likely to happen soon, and we would like them to have a better quality of life. California (Bay Area) for all its beauty has a school system that leaves much to be desired. In order for your children to attend a quality school they must attend a private institution at a cost of $12000-$15000/year. Add to that the issues of urban violence in the Bay Area and moving away seems like the only option.

Homeownership also plays a major factor in our desire to move. Condos in the San Francisco cost around $700k and a single family home is over $1MM.

Our current thought is to live in Auckland based on our previous urban lifestyle and professional background. We both do management in the financial services industry and found most of the professional opportunities in Auckland.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Alex

[Oregonkiwi]

hi Alex,
I'm still in the US (and a kiwi so I'm probably biased ;) ) but in my opinion the NZ school system is way better than in the US. Some schools around here (rural Oregon) can only afford to open 4 days a week!

Have a look here for American perspectives:
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4807

[aorland]

Thanks for the thread recommendation. I still think we are on the right track for a better life in NZ, but want to make sure as many bases are covered prior to the move.

[leigh31]

Hi Katie & Alex,

I'm from the U.S. - I moved to Auckland with my bf exactly 2 months ago. I've spent the last 9 years working in NYC...before that I worked in London, and before that I was in college in CA!!
We have year long work visas, with the option to extend...if we want. I've posted a couple of times on the "working in NZ" topic...you might want to check out my posts. I could repeat it all here, but my hands would probably fall off from all the typing!!

Anyway...here's my take on things.... Great place to retire!!! :laugh

Although I'm probably around your age (31) I'm not ready for kids. So I won't be able to comment on any of that (although I was surprised by what people with kids did say in the UK vs NZ thread). But I can tell you my overall views of living here.

First and foremost - try to get a job in NZ BEFORE you get here. Unless you're in I.T. or some other specialize field where they are understaffed, or can get a transfer, you might have a tough time. And if you or your wife are in TV - forget it! (read about that in 'working in NZ thread'!) I have found it next to impossible to get a job. I'm temping at the moment.

My bf was a paralegal in the states, but he decided that this was the perfect opportunity to change career paths. He is working part-time as a bartender and part-time as a brewer's assisstant (that's the dream job part). So he's very happy (not about the bartending, but it pays the bills!) So entry level or "transient" work is do-able. Picking fruit - not a problem! :laugh

Auckland, at least compared to NYC, is dare I say...boring? There doesn't seem to be much nightlife. (or maybe i don't know the cool hip places? which is very very likely!) Although there does seem to be a big work/drink culture (every Friday, drinks with your co-workers - sometimes in the office still)

Now...about $$, be prepared for a paycut. And don't even bother to convert the salaries they're offering you in to US dollars - talk about depressing!!! :(

The one good thing is that rent is cheap. ($800 US a month) We live in a fully furnished one bedroom with views of the harbor...oh, and the freight loading docks. If you're going to do the move...move to Devonport or Waiheke. Somewhere commutable to Auckland but really picturesque. Especially if you're thinking about having kids....

Another good thing, you can live in Auckland and not get a car. I know some of my current kiwi co-workers would disagree, but even coming from NYC, I have easily managed to use the bus system to get me where I need to go.

You'll need that extra money for food, though. I've been surprised how expensive food is here (eating out). Not ridiculous if you convert to US dollars, but if you're only making NZ dollars, lunch for $8 or $10 is no bargain. Grocery store prices vary. Same with drinks. $7.50 NZ for a beer is expensive (IMHO) but in US $$- it's not so bad.

Anyway...I'm rambling. Just post here if there is any other way I can help. I think I'm happy I came here...at least for the year. (i'm happy when I don't think about the cush job I left behind!) I know my bf is happy. But I could only imagine doing this for a year or 2...

If nothing else, it will be a fun adventure for you and your wife to have together!

Leigh

[shameless]

Great post AORLAND. My wife and I are in a very similar position moving from San Francisco as well. I can't comment much, as we are not moving until next month, but my wife found a job in Wellington which seems like a mini San Francisco. (Lots of hills, cafes, bars, artists and fog)

All the research I have done seems to support what leigh31 has said. My wife is in a good position with her job, but I too will likely be making a career change (from broadcasting coincidentally). It does seem like making 1/2 of what you made in the US is not unreasonable, so I imagine you won't find that much relief in the cost of living except when it comes to housing (which is a big exception obviously) Taxes also seem to be a little higher, but insurance seems to be a dramatically lower (and not as comprehenisive.)

I will try to keep up with this thread and post after we arrive.

[Park City Partner]

I moved here in April with my boyfriend from Park City UT but lived in LA for many years before that. We are living on the Northshore of Auckland and don't find the cost of living to be cheaper except with regard to insurance. Our rent for a "perfectly adequate" house (4 bedrooms but not a huge place) is about $2,000 per month. It is nothing flash and by US standards, as I said perfectly adequate for a few years.

Not to offend anyone but overall I am not overwhelmed by living here yet. In general, I feel it is very similar to the US but without the choices and with higher prices. NZ is a great place to vacation (we came last year for 6 weeks) but if it weren't for my Kiwi partner I wouldn't have moved.

With that said, having a baby here is a much better experience I think than in the States. I had my baby about 6 weeks ago and the care and support you receive here is AMAZING. I feel very lucky to have had my baby here.

As a final note, my less than overwhelming positive feelings could be related to sleep deprivation and hormones coupled with finding it difficult to make friends. NZ has a reputation for being very friendly but we have had found it difficult to break into circles and make friends. And I know of other forumites that have had the same experience. People, in my personal experience, don't really extend themselves to include or invite you to do things. Except of course for people from this forum. I have made several good friends through here that I are great.

Anyway, just a few thoughts...have to go back to feeding baby now. Good luck.

[jess]

Hi Aorland. We don't have kids, but we moved here from Virginia in April. We have not regretted the decision, but I can imagine any number of people would not be happy with the move. I'm surprised when I see cost of living on the list as a plus, because we like it here despite what we see as a higher cost of living. Health care costs are reasonable without any insurance, which is nice, and housing's not too expensive for us. Otherwise I find food, gas ($1.76/litre) and most consumer goods and services to be quite costly, and we've cut back on our spending.

The plus sides for us are amazing outdoors, having a $230/mo. 3 bedroom rental in walking distance of the ocean, friendly people, and the decidedly different political climate as well. Friends warned me that the latter would not affect my day to day life so much, but I am pretty darn liberal by US standards at least, and it has made a difference to me personally. I live in a fairly rural area, but here the kids play ball in the street into the evening, and there's just this surreal feeling like they are doing the things I did as a kid in the seventies that I wasn't seeing so much in Virginia any more. I know anything can happen to you most anywhere, but I have to say I feel a lot safer here.

It's so subjective. I am thankful that we love it here, because it could have gone the other way, and we would have lost a lot of money moving everything back to the states again. I don't mean to put you off. We love New Zealand. We have not wanted to move back to the states. But a lot of the things I love are the intangibles, and cost of living has been more in the negative comumn.

[beeline]

hi jess, i think the cost of living issue may be a difference of perspective between virginia - new zealand and san francisco - new zealand. my husband and i are also coming from san francisco and wellington seems like it will be considerably less expensive, at least in terms of housing (which is a pretty substantial aspect of col). then again, we have spent the past year in minneapolis and i think wellington may be more expensive or at very least comparable to minneapolis. of course i'm not actually there yet, so this is all just speculation based on what i've read/heard.

glad to hear you're so happy there, though -- i love to hear success stories!

[jess]

Beeline. You're right to point that out. It makes a big difference what you're comparing it all to. I imagine NZ prices could be a relief coming from San Francisco! Best of luck on your move. :)

[SoCal Gal]

Hi Jess,
It was good to see your post! I don't ever think I would have thought that we would be leaving our home (the States) for 'political freedom' but the cost of living HERE is just too high when one's nerves (and also the nerves of our pets) have been absolutely shattered by the daily bombing practice at Camp Pendleton (Marines). I even work 10 miles from there, and sometimes my building shakes so hard, people stick their heads out to ask "Was that an earthquake, or Camp P.?" Too much.
Can't wait to get out of here! A limited supply of choices in foodstuffs, cosmetics, whathaveyou, and the cost of living - we're already in one of the highest housing cost markets in the country - means absolutely nothing to me, knowing what a sense of relief my family will feel being away from this political scene. I know we'll NEVER look back.
SoCal Gal

[aorland]

Fantastic insight everyone, and I really appreciate the information. Certainly the cost of living is going to be a factor but given housing prices in San Francisco everything might balance out.

We should be submitting our ITA next month and we will see what happens. Did anyone have success finding positions in NZ prior to leaving the States? I know the UK have these great career expos but I haven't seen any big recruitment in the States.

Alex

[SoCal Gal]

Hi there,
I wish we had those expos here too, I've never heard anything about them.
If you are in IT, you have the best chance of getting a job while up here, it seems. I am going down for interviews the first week in September, and I'm trying to absorb everything people have said on this forum about having a back-up to your back-up plan when it comes to trying for a job there.
I know there are jobs, it's the system that seems kind of snarky.
Good luck!

[montana]

I have been here for almost 3 months (in Christchurch) and moved here with my kiwi husband when he got his dream job here. We'd been living in San Diego for the last couple years..

Positives (for me)
Lifestyle. Christchurch is definitely a slower pace of life. I don't know if the same can be said of Auckland - think it is definitely faster paced. It is nice that not everything is open 24 hours and people don't feel compelled to work every minute (usually)

Space. There are so many beautiful parks and outdoor areas to visit. People really seem to value nature here.

Customer Service. It exists! I was getting so disgusted with people being so rude to one another in the US. (mainly in the big cities). People here seem to believe that customer service is a good thing and go out of their way to help you. Also, no big box stores and butchers and veggie shops can still make a living (but kiwis say sadly this may be on the way out)

Negatives:
Cost of living. If you convert to US dollars it generally seems about the same. But given the low salaries here I've found I really can't go on doing that. Housing in Christchurch seems cheap compared to California but what doesn't.

Salaries. Expect to cut your salary in 1/2 and whatever you do, don't convert it to US dollars. It is a huge blow to the ego.

Friendliness:
People are friendly but like someone else said, they don't necessarily make an effort to include you. But I think this is everywhere you go - some people are must more outgoing than others. The people that have really made me feel welcome are other expats, both on this forum and just around. However, I haven't felt like I've been judged on being an American - people tend to judge me as a person. It's the media that likes to portray all Americans of one political opinion.

Homesickness:
I have lived away from my family for the last 10 years and thought I'd have no problem being homesick, but it has been much worse than I imagined. Other people I've talked to felt the same. I don't know if it is because NZ is so isolated or that everything seems to be "all kiwi all the time" or what it is, but it has been hard.

Hope that helps. It helped me just to write it all down! Best of luck to you.

[jen]

Hi Alex,

To answer your question about job expos, there was a 2-day one in San Fran. last October for the IT and Health Care fields. My husband thought about going, but the IT recruiting company represented there already had their interview slots filled by the time he contacted them. There does seem to be a little bit of NZ gov't interest to recruit immigrants from the US - here's a link to the NZIS site w/content specific to Americans:

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/nzopportunities/unitedstates

We're another couple wanting to flee overpriced, overcrowded California (Santa Barbara). We've got PR and will move whenever our house sells. We've been to NZ on one vacation & one trip to Welly specifically to decide if we wanted really make the move.

To be honest, I don't think we'd make the move if we didn't have US home equity to use for buying a house in NZ - we want to live in Welly (for the IT jobs & cultural scene) and houses aren't cheap there. I work for a nonprofit & my husband for a university so we're both used to being on the low-end of the salary scale which should help us with the "salary shock" we've been hearing about.

Good luck with your decision!

Jen

[Sean-n-Judy]

SoCalGal daily bombing practice at Camp Pendleton (Marines). I even work 10 miles from there, and sometimes my building shakes so hard, people stick their heads out to ask "Was that an earthquake, or Camp P.?"

Where in North County are you? We are in Vista, and plan on being in Auckland around the middle of Sept. Just did my phone interview yesterday!


Sean

[SoCal Gal]

Hi there!
I'm one town over! I'll send you a PM!
Cool!

[jess]

Alex - as for jobs before arriving - we came over to check out Welly before we sent in the final ITA, and I could not generate interest from employers on that trip as far as actually nailing down a job. They were willing to meet with me and seemed to like my CV and experience, but they didn't want to actually do anything until PR was done and I was living in NZ. Granted I work in marketing in the arts, and they are nowhere near as desparate as some other industries with far worse shortages. Also we took our trip to Wellington many months before we were going to move, so it would have been hard for them to know what vacancies would be available down the road. In hindsight we probably should have visited closer to the actual move in order to get a job lined up, but we really went to NZ to decide whether we wanted to move at all so we did it early.

I know some others on the forum from the US did get jobs beforehand and that some of their employers even helped to pay for the cost of moving here. Lucky things! :nice1

(I don't know what would have happened about jobs if I had followed up upon arrival in NZ since the company I worked for in the US ended up keeping me on staff, and I work for them via internet. My OH worked in a cafe in the states and needless to say got a job doing that almost immediately after we moved. It pays him better than I expected it would. They take their coffee seriously here!)

[Bruckner]

Hey SoCal Gal and Sean - we used to live in Vista! Shadowridge to be exact. Greg grew up in Oceanside and I know full well what you mean about the Camp P noise. I miss having coffee at the Pannikin in Leucadia, margaritas at La Paloma, Rubio's...

To answer the original question we are here in NYC squeezed into a one bedroom with our 18 month old twins and a dog. Housing costs seem reasonable to us based on what we've looked at here never mind the issue of education that looms ahead.

I know the cost of living is higher and the salaries lower but we're looking to increase our quality of life right now as well as having the experience of living somewhere other than the US. I'm tired of fighting for space on the sidewalk, rushing around from place to place, constantly looking over my shoulder and feeling generally unsafe and vulnerable these days.

We have no idea if New Zealand is the answer but we certainly want to find out. NZ, here we come!

Emily

[jess]

Just realised I put $230/month for our rental in an earlier post when it is really $230/week. It's cheap, but not THAT cheap.:o

[herseymusic]

Just thought I'd put my pennies into this thread.

I have lived in Wellington for five years now (starting at age 22), and my daily routine speaks volumes for the quality of life here:

I live in a very affordable 1 bedroom apartment which is less than ten meters from the beach. My commute is a ten minute walk - with incredible views - over the hill to my office, where I work for one of the most sought after film production companies in the world. On weekends, I hop on the ferry that docks just at the end of the beach, and in 20 minutes I am walking through a lush forest valley speckled with palm trees and towering 1,000 year old Rimu. And I don't even have a car!

My chances of having this life in the States at age 27? Pretty close to zero.

Now, things have not always been this way for me. It takes a long time to get established in NZ. I think that Americans have this idea that we are going to move to NZ and immediately own the country. I mean, we're coming from "the greatest nation on earth" (hahaha), and we have chosen to grace a little island in the South Pacific with our presence. Why shouldn't we get the best jobs immediately??

Well, it doesn't work that way.

As much as NZ employers value overseas experience, they are much more inclined to give the high paying jobs to New Zealanders (or Brits or Aussies). In a sense, you have to work your way back up the corporate ladder after moving here. After all, we're just a few more immigrants coming to a small country which already takes in 40,000 of them a year. There are only so many high paying jobs to go around. And unfortunately, being American doesn't afford the special status in the workplace that we'd like to think it does.

And to those that thought their cost of living would go down by moving to the North Shore...well, thanks for the laugh! You DID realize that you were moving into the most expensive suburb in the country, didn't you?

Food is cheap - buy it at the farmers markets

If you try to live an American style life here - prepackaged food, lots of restaurants, lots of electronics, designer clothes - it's going to be very expensive. Living on an island in the middle of an ocean on the bottom of the earth makes you realize how cheap consumer goods and mediocre restaurants are in the US.

But I certainly wouldn't trade my life here for inexpensive plastic stuff and two dollar burgers.

Kiwis are frugal - let's take a lesson from them. I mean, it's their country, isn't it?

[SoCal Gal]

Hmmm, I don't exactly know how to 'take' this post, it kind of hurt my feelings for ALL of us Americans who are leaving our country, and have been incredibly honest about our reasons....
I have yet to hear of anyone on this forum with the attitude of "I think that Americans have this idea that we are going to move to NZ and immediately own the country. I mean, we're coming from "the greatest nation on earth" (hahaha), and we have chosen to grace a little island in the South Pacific with our presence. Why shouldn't we get the best jobs immediately??"
That's pretty rude - who has that attitude?
Also, the people that are moving are not obsessed with continuing this either
"If you try to live an American style life here - prepackaged food, lots of restaurants, lots of electronics, designer clothes - it's going to be very expensive. Living on an island in the middle of an ocean on the bottom of the earth makes you realize how cheap consumer goods and mediocre restaurants are in the US.
But I certainly wouldn't trade my life here for inexpensive plastic stuff and two dollar burgers.
Kiwis are frugal - let's take a lesson from them. I mean, it's their country, isn't it?"
Uh, yeah? It's THEIR country, and I think that people that are going to the trouble, expense, emotional upheaval, etc., of leaving behind their home country - for whatever reason - it's a HUGE undertaking. I think we just want to have a little piece of freedom, nature, safety, etc., and really, anyone who complains about missing the dollar menu at Taco Bell or loading up at Walmart - probably isn't going to move to NZ anyway.
Maybe I took your comments the wrong way, but I thought they were pretty heavy-handed. And, I am glad that it all worked out for you, and I'm sure it was tough, but I think a lot of people will be very happy without the beach front home, working for mega-company, etc., and just be happy to be the &*(() out of the States.
Sad.

[wanderingoregonian]

I'm really enjoying reading this thread and everyone's individual contributions. And hope that they all keep coming! We're all coming from such different experiences and worlds, with mostly just the dream of NZ in common. I personally am a bit worried about the cost of living change... but also try to remind myself that my budget has always been odd...and that its will just be part of the adventure.

On my visit to Wellington last year I had the sense that if I lived similar to how I grew up in Oregon I would do much better than if I tried to live the way I have been in Boston with its expensive rents and (at least in my circle of friends) lots of socializing at restaurants and events requiring tickets. Growing up, friends would gather much more frequently for potlucks and walks on the beach or watching sunset - pretty darn affordable. I have to say I very curious how it all will shake out in NZ, but until then please keep sharing your viewpoints :yes

[jess]

I have yet to hear of anyone on this forum with the attitude of "I think that Americans have this idea that we are going to move to NZ and immediately own the country.

I also haven't seen that attitude from people who are seriously considering the move.

-----------


As far as the price and selection of goods, living far from your family, or whatever might be a downside for you... I think it's helpful for people to be very clear with themselves about why they might move and what's most important to their day to day life so that they have the best chance of being happy with their decision. If you'll miss low cost books, makeup, restaurants, flights to Europe, etc... so bad it hurts then it's better to know that than to pretend it won't be an issue for you. On the other hand if the plusses people have mentioned like the tons of reserve land everywhere, slower pace, getting away from US foreign policy (or whatever your own reasons) are going to have the biggest impact on your happiness, then NZ could be very right.

------------

Wanderingoregonaian -- Yes, potlucks are very big here. And having been an east coast girl before, I am loving these sunsets!! :)

[clg]

As to the americans coming here and feeling like they will own this place. I know where you are coming from. I don't see that attitude here on the board but I have met americans here with that sort of attitude. Same thing with the 'shock' some will express about cost of leading a US type lifestyle here.

[beeline]

thanks for the input, hersey. it's nice to get a less family-oriented perspective on new zealand/wellington (dare i say younger??). the lifestyle sounds great, much like what we are looking for, especially the no car bit. after years in san francisco with no need for a car it was quite a shock to move back to the midwest and feel so lost without one. i definitely hear what you're saying about the entitled americans coming over -- i only hope we're not among them!

and i think i know what production company you're talking about :) what do you do for them, if you don't mind me asking?

[auskiwi]

Well I certainly have an opinion on this topic! I grew up in New Zealand before falling in love and marrying my American husband ten years ago. We have been living in the States ever since. When I first moved here I was amazed at the speed and size of everything-the food, the cars, the pace of life. Everything was larger than life. I vowed to never let myself get drawn into the frantic pace of everything - not to mention adamantly insisting I would NEVER make a cake from a BOX-how disgusting I thought!

Well, fast forward ten years. I have truly been lured into the fast lane. Every day is a rush to get from one frantic activity to another, I am too busy sometimes to remember to return phone calls from a friend, my kids are in constant fast forward, and "gulp" I have even made many a cake from a "box"! Aaargh, what happened to me? Did I mention the living in a big house, driving a big SUV etc, etc?...After ten years there is no doubt that we need to leap off this merry-go-round before it spins us completely off the planet.

I so look forward to returning to New Zealand, where an afternoon spent hanging out with friends on a beach is considered a day very well spent. I want my kids to be confident in who they are, not what they wear. After ten years here, there is no doubt in my mind, New Zealand offers us an opportunity to reconnect with each other with more than a kiss at our revolving front door.

Amy.

[Annierobrigado]

hi amy

good post that one. i like what you said about "a kiss a our revolving front door" - yup, sometimes you get so rushed you even forget kissing! wonder what happened that made people so frantic to get somewhere these days... rushing through the days means christmas will soon be here???? again??? i haven't recovered from last year's????

cheers to you
annie