[gil]

Hi Debbie and Willsken,
I was at huge risk of hi-jacking Gretchen's thread for this, so I thought I'd start a new one.

But I'm SO SICK of the overcrowding of the UK, and particularly my home town. We have 200,000 residents in Bournemouth, and 50,000 of them are foreign students who come to the English schools and end up staying on because they don't want to go home. Nothing wrong with that (I'm NOT making a point about immigration here), but there just isn't the infrastructure in Bournemouth to cope with the increasing volume of people - roads aren't capable, car parks aren't big enough etc.

I think UK is actually amazingly un-crowded and I suspect that comes down more to mindset that actual physical number of people here. What I mean by this is that in some other countries, being where there are loads of other people is not viewed as a "downside" or un-enjoyable, like it is here. When I lived in Italy, it seemed that every single resident of Milan would go to the same places at exactly the same time, whether it was Sunday trips out, summer hols or whatever. None of this "let's go later/earlier to avoid the crowds"! Ditto France. Anyone who's travelled on August 1st in France will know what I mean!
I'm not criticising what you've said, as I'm a firm believer that each of us has their own version of "reality", so if you believe it's crowded, then it is (or not, as the case may be), what I'm getting at is that we often find those things that annoy/please us wherever we go, as it's more to do with us than anything else.
I think we are all lucky to have the choice, and am soooo loooking forwrad to exploring NZ when we eventually get there!
Gil

[Debbie P.]

I'm not criticising what you've said, as I'm a firm believer that each of us has their own version of "reality", so if you believe it's crowded, then it is (or not, as the case may be), what I'm getting at is that we often find those things that annoy/please us wherever we go, as it's more to do with us than anything else.


As you say, it may well be a mindset thing. I deliberately moved from London a few years ago to get away from that over-crowded feeling, but it's followed me here! I think someone else on the forum said something about not being able to pop out at lunchtime to grab a sandwich without having to queue for half an hour and not being able to find somewhere to sit and eat it in a public place - they were talking about London, but I feel the same way here.

Sorry Gil, but I think you're being a little harsh on me! I don't think it's my fault that there's not enough parking spaces at the supermarket. I think it comes down to our local authorities not putting enough money into local services to ensure there's enough to go around. That's a basic need - it's not about me not liking the fact that there's lots of people around, it's about me needing to be able to park! I'd be quite happy to leave my car at home and walk to the local shops, if only the local shops hadn't all closed down due to competition from out-of-town supermarkets.

I honestly don't believe that I will have the same problems in New Zealand, except possibly in the cities. And since I'm not really in to serious shopping, can't stand having to go and buy clothes and am not particularly attached to specific food labels, I'm not worried about the lack of shopping opportunities, just as long as I can get to a shop to buy my veggies!

[smitjo]

I have to agree with you Debbie - I find the UK very over crowded and this is clearly evident in the housing market - demand clearly outweighing supply. We are now having to build on land that had previously been put down as set- aside in order to meet the demand of our continually growing communities. Old farms are being developed into new housing estates, our transport system cannot cope with the increasing numbers of cars frequenting particular roads everyday. It may also be a mindset thing although personally I'm not particulalry bothered by the issue of over-crowding, however with a population of 59.8 million people in the UK and a population density of 256 people per sq km there is no denying that we do have a problem with over-crowding.

England's population density is more than treble the European average and is one of the most densely populated coutries in the World - certainly makes one think! :laugh

PHEW...where did that all come from :D

[GeordieLass]

England's population density is more than treble the European average and is one of the most densely populated coutries in the World - certainly makes one think! :laugh

PHEW...where did that all come from :D

London is overcrowded but the same can't be said of other places in the UK I don't think. The rise in house prices we've seen over the last decade or so has been the result of a combination of low interest rates, falling share prices and failing pension funds making other forms of investment less attractive. People with money to invest instead turn to property which they can get a good rental return on and which is unlikely to depreciate in value in the long term. The prices then go up because the first time buyers are competing with buy-to-letters.

I think smaller towns in the UK have problems because they are so old and the infrastructure hasn't kept up with people's changing habits. Actually I'm probably alone in thinking it but I think this is one thing that London does reasonably well. The tube is hot, stinky and sticky at the moment but it gets me to work around 20 minutes if there are no delays (I appreciate that that's quite a big if, but no more often than, say, an accident on the road might slow me down or I might forget to set my alarm. It's also a convenient excuse if I do forget to set the alarm!)

Also remember we have a green belt and planning laws which should mean that towns don't spread and sprawl to become one massive metropolis and preserving the countryside.

The population density in the UK might look high when compared to New Zealand (14.9 people per sq km) or Spain (85) but it's not compared to Japan (339) or (and I appreciate this one is exceptional!) Monaco which has a whopping 23,660 people per sq km. They must stand on each other's shoulders or something. We're about the same as Germany and while its been some time since I was there, I don't recall the crushing and barging on public transport that you do get here at times.

Sorry for long winded waffly post. My first non-visa question one as I'm new to these forums and the one I usually waffle at length on such issues on is quiet today.

[smitjo]

Agree with what you said...... however I don't live in London - I live in a tiny, tiny village (blink and you will miss it) in Lincolnshire and there is definitly evidence of overcrowding, I think you will find it is a problem throughout our country.

As for the green belt planning laws - these are changing as the government realises the need for more houses. This is evident in a number of villages in Lincolnshire that are surrounded by green belt land but are now being put down to housing estates. I think that you may just find that the Government aren't actually that bothered by protecting our countryside - look at farming.

[Debbie P.]

There's a lot of evidence of lack of housing in certain areas, particularly the south.

I think Bournemouth suffers from the illusion that it's a good place to be and, therefore, there will be plenty of jobs, housing etc. - yes, there IS employment if you don't mind working in hotels & restaurants for the minimum wage.

As for housing... recently there were some mobile homes going up for sale in the New Forest near Christchurch and some people camped out in tents for 5 days beforehand because they were so desperate to be near the front of the queue. These were families with young kids... Oh yes, there's a housing problem outside London, believe me.

[gil]

Sorry Gil, but I think you're being a little harsh on me!

Sorry Debbie, I really didn't mean to be :o

Some good points made, I think, especially about infrastructure. More than that though, there's the sense of claustrophobia or feeling of space that can attach to a place, and that's above and beyond the "actual" physical things. There are parts of London that feel quite spacious and small towns that feel claustrophobic to me. And certainly living in Cardiff, we have access to relatively uncrowded places.

The population density in the UK might look high when compared to New Zealand (14.9 people per sq km) or Spain (85) but it's not compared to Japan (339) or (and I appreciate this one is exceptional!) Monaco which has a whopping 23,660 people per sq km. They must stand on each other's shoulders or something. :laugh Interesting statistics Geordielass!
Gil

[Anita & Marco]

I don't think it's my fault that there's not enough parking spaces at the supermarket. I think it comes down to our local authorities not putting enough money into local services to ensure there's enough to go around.

Hi Debbie,

Sorry, but you cannot blame the local authorities for the loss of local shops. The only reason for local shops leaving is that they can not compete with the big supermarkets anymore. The ones who make the small local shops leaving, are the consumers themselves who do not want to pay that extra bit of money for services around the corner!! You see this happening all over the world. Luckily in NZ there are the dairies (nearly 100% of them run by people from India) where you can get some basic groceries at high prices.

I am from The Netherlands; you want to talk crowded areas?

Anita
Wellington

[willsken]

Gil I get what you are trying to say but as you said it really comes down to personal feelings. Look at where I have chosen to live in NZ. :D

I don't like being around lots of people. I feel hemmed in and the idea of going to the beach for the day in this country is a complete no no. My friend took the boys for the day and she said you couldn't see the sand for bodies. :exit My idea of hell I'm afraid.

I also find going to the supermarket or into Cardiff shopping (to me) feels very crowded. I went into Cardiff last week and it was awful.

[Diny]

Looking at it in an over simplistic way ..... if the population in the UK was evenly distributed then it wouldn't be overcrowded. As it is there's a massive concentration of people in the cities and industrial areas and a few miles down the road you'll be in sprawling green countryside dotted with the occasional village and hamlet.

I come from a very rural location in the UK where the only new buildings to appear are barn conversions - and they are very few and far between. I'm not a totally ignorant country bumpkin and I am fully aware that certain parts of the UK are akin to seething ant colonies, however, I feel it's a tad unfair to 'clump' the entire country into the 'overcrowded' category.

I live 12km outside of Palmerston North here in NZ, although our village is very rural and quiet when I go into PN (which now has city status) the feeling of overcrowded, hustle bustle can sometimes strike (especially when I'm hunting for a parking space).

Diny

[jo b]

Hi all,

Just going to add my few pearls of wisdom if I may.
Please remember that where there are less people, there is less traffic, there are less buildings, less choice of electrical goods, less choice of food, less choice of clothes, less choice full stop. So repeating my daughter who is 10 who said this once back in Blighty after I was whinging about the litter " Remember mum where there's more people, there's more litter and where there more people, theres more shops and choice, which would you choose". Well what could I say.

So there are pros and cons to low population just remember the cons too.

Jo

Jo

[Moorf]

So true, the whole of the UK isn't overcrowded, but when, as we did, you live in places that ARE overcrowded (I couldn't believe the state of our old haunts in Sussex / Hants after being away in Scotland for 7 yrs :no ) you do feel that the whole country must be like it.

There are plenty of places you can still lose yourself but I personally feel these are being squeezed out down south. Not only that but we were fed up with fighting through traffic as everyone tried to escape to the country, only to arrive to overcrowded facilities or no facilities.


...where there's more people, there's more litter and where there more people, theres more shops and choice, which would you choose".


I'd choose to move away from the shops and choice if that meant dealing with less people / crowding / litter / traffic - and that's what we've done - I guess that's where many of us on the forum differ - not everyone is out here to find space and simpler things but some of us are.

[jo b]

Moorf you are right poeple are trading off different things for different reasons.

Enjoy the peace and quiet..........I just felt like I had retired!!:laugh

Take care

Jo

[spudulike]

We also felt a sense of overcrowding in 'some' parts of the UK but bear in mind that although NZ has a lot of land per person statistically there are huge swathes of the country which are unpopulated - or populated with sheep :D Therefore, in most of the major towns and cities it is still very populated and you can still fight for a parking space at the supermarket here too! You generally don't queue for long though.

I would say though to be careful what you wish for - I have mentioned in a thread before that walking down the main street on a Saturday afternoon and not seeing many other people can make you feel quite isolated and lonely. I find that I really miss the buzz of having lots of people around. NZ is a long way from everywhere else and there are times when you really feel it!

I don't think the UK is terrible and I could always find some beautiful places that were peaceful and not too crowded when I needed to.

Louise

[Moorf]

Peace and quiet :laugh I wish! Lack of shops and choice doesn't mean lack of life - I have a very busy life here, sometimes too busy - the last few months have been manic.


I felt more anonymous in London and Edinburgh than I did here, crowds don't mean more friends or social life... often the opposite. I can't stand being swept along by crowds along a shopping street or being elbowed on public transport or driving round carparks for hours looking for a space that doesn't require a full expedition kit to get me to the front entrance. I don't relish the buzz of crowds daily - if I do want that scene I can drive into Chch and have it and leave it behind me as I leave.


Having said that my sister in law would have gone bonkers here by now...and 10 yrs ago I would have demanded a local Toni & Guy :D

[Avalon]

Hi Debbie,

Sorry, but you cannot blame the local authorities for the loss of local shops. The only reason for local shops leaving is that they can not compete with the big supermarkets anymore. The ones who make the small local shops leaving, are the consumers themselves who do not want to pay that extra bit of money for services around the corner!!
:nice1 Couldnt agree more!

It us that have caused the demise of the high street. How many of us dont / didnt shop at Tescos, asda, safeway, etc?

[Diny]

Hi all,

. So repeating my daughter who is 10 who said this once back in Blighty after I was whinging about the litter " Remember mum where there's more people, there's more litter and where there more people, theres more shops and choice, which would you choose". Well what could I say.

Jo

Jo

I can just hear Bethany saying that. I have to be honest and say I'd choose the option with less people and less choice. Our village here has a 4 Square to cater for any simple needs, if we want choice a plenty then a drive into town will do.

Apart from my number 1 comfort food (sage & onion Paxo eaten raw) there's nothing I can't get over here, and the drive into town to get it is quiet, scenic and a pleasure.

Diny

[jo b]

I know mad isn't she Diny.

Well I am not saying I am a shopaholic, and I don't mean life stops with no shops. I suppose spudlike articulated a tad better than me. Not just choice but the buzz of people around now makes life more 'real'. Because for me it was the isolated feeling that I didn't like.

I only live in a relatively small town and can find tranquillity when I need it, you kind find the kind of life you have in NZ in Blighty you just need to look for it.

Moorf I always feel anonymous in London but then again didn't like the fact that everyone knew my business when I didn't even know their name in NZ, to the point of even knowing how much we bought our house for.

Jo

[jo b]

Oh and to add to that

There is no right or wrong here, just differences. It wouldn't do for us all to be the same.

Jo

[Moorf]

I agree, whilst we're spread out here, and indeed even in Chch, it's a VERY small country - everyone here, for instance, seems to know everyone else's business - it's a bit like rural communities in the UK - altho that binds people together imo and you need that when you're in a more isolated area.

I know they all know how much we bought this place for, they know when we go away, where we go, when we're back, where Summer should and shouldn't be, they watch our drive (often I'm stopped going in and they say something like "I saw the Jones's kid going in your drive today, don't know why..." on that occasion said kid was selling choc bars for the school fundraising we found out earlier) and so forth. I should add, though, during my first weeks I had to stick signs on the entrances saying "do not disturb - working" as I was literally getting people dropping by 3 or 4 times a day - one of which started casually walking into my kitchen and shouting "i'm putting the jug (kettle) on... " - that ended in a shouting match - sorry, I know some people out there have open houses and love people dropping by but I don't :no

Having said all that my neighbour had me in tears the other day - she knew I was having a bad time and had bought me a little pressie - I was so touched.

I digress, I'm rambling... you're so right - we're not all the same or looking for the same out of life.

Could we have had the same life in the UK? No way. Purely on the financial side alone we'd need to maintain a hefty mortgage to have the same property/lifestyle/location in the UK as we do here, or a lottery win, whereas we have a small mortgage and one income.

[Diny]

one of which started casually walking into my kitchen and shouting "i'm putting the jug (kettle) on... " - that ended in a shouting match - sorry, I know some people out there have open houses and love people dropping by but I don't :no

.


Nooooooo waaaaaay !! It would have ended in slightly more than a shouting match if that happened to me. I never have and never will run an 'open home' - maybe that makes me sound snooty - then so be it.

Diny

[Moorf]

Mad eh? But even my other Kiwi neighbours said they wouldn't stand for it so I gather it's not "normal" behaviour... thankfully that particular woman got the hint....

[Singel]

Hi Debbie and Willsken,
When I lived in Italy, it seemed that every single resident of Milan would go to the same places at exactly the same time, whether it was Sunday trips out, summer hols or whatever. None of this "let's go later/earlier to avoid the crowds"! Ditto France. Anyone who's travelled on August 1st in France will know what I mean!
Gil
I agreed with Gil, people do things at the same time and at the same place.

In Holland and during summer time, it takes 1.5 hours driving through the traffic jam, one hour to find a parking lot and another 30 mins walk to the beach. At the beach, it was so crowded that each step we take, we worried that we might step on someone's head or toe. It is absolutely nuts :no

Here in Auckland, we walk 5 mins to the beach and most of the time, we have the whole beach to ourselves :D I'm so glad that we could have the peace and quiet in the largest city in NZ :nice1

Hi Debbie,

Sorry, but you cannot blame the local authorities for the loss of local shops. The only reason for local shops leaving is that they can not compete with the big supermarkets anymore. The ones who make the small local shops leaving, are the consumers themselves who do not want to pay that extra bit of money for services around the corner!! You see this happening all over the world. Luckily in NZ there are the dairies (nearly 100% of them run by people from India) where you can get some basic groceries at high prices.

I am from The Netherlands; you want to talk crowded areas?

Anita
Wellington
In UK, I lived in a tiny village (about 80 houses) in Cambridge and it has a local dairy and a one-pump petrol kiosk. Everyone in the village buys groceries and petrol from them at higher prices even though the mega-sized Tesco (with it's own petrol kiosk) is only 10 mins drive. I remember there is a strike by the drivers of the petrol trucks and all the petrol kiosks in UK run out of petrol very quickily. Yet the little petrol kiosk has enough supply for the village use and we are not affected by the strike. :nice1

[Cardiff Irons]

I think overcrowding is much more down to individual expectations than statistics. I lived quite happily in relatively overcrowded (statistically) London/Essex for much of my life and never considered it to be overcrowded. However, since moving to Cardiff about 12 years ago I now find visits to London/Essex extremely disconcerting. I cannot begin to describe the claustrophobic feelings I experience and I can honestly say that I can't wait to leave.

I've never experienced the same feelings in Cardiff, yet I am sure there are people who live on the periphery of Cardiff who get those same claustrophobic feelings when they come into town.

[jubjub]

There is overcrowding here too, as you can see at Botany town centre on a weekend..... trying to find a parking space after 11am is a mission, so we just avoid it! (same with the new Sylvia Park, although thats a novelty at the mo)

But we can go to a popular beach at the weekend, and its still quiet compared to a good UK beach at a weekend.

There is also still the "bank holiday" traffic to contend with, and the news reports are full of delays on the main routes, and the amount of accidents that have occured.

But if you stay in the city during the holidays its great, you get peace and quiet!

[markkellaway]

Hi All,

We lived in Poole and I drove to Bournemouth each day for work, 6 miles taking at least 30 minutes. We now live outside Christchurch, I drive 30 km to work and it takes me the same time, 30 minutes. Christchurch has about the same population as Poole and Bournemouth combined.

It is without doubt less crowded here than in the UK (not speaking for the north island). How many have been stuck in a traffic jam in the UK on a nice day trying to go somewhere nice? I have never been stuck in a traffic jam since we got here, a bit of a queue on the way home from work sometimes, but never more than a few minutes delay. We drove to Dunedin last weekend, a beautiful day and hardly any traffic.

Sure there are areas of the UK that aren't crowded, until you have to venture any distance on the road network.

Cheers,

Mark.

[Avalon]

I've never experienced the same feelings in Cardiff, yet I am sure there are people who live on the periphery of Cardiff who get those same claustrophobic feelings when they come into town.
That I can agree with - we headied to Cardiff on our trip back as we love it there (Its where we both went to uni and we met each other) and I couldnt cope with the crowds. Mind you - I couldnt deal with it that well when I was at uni either (and that was quite a while ago :o ). Always felt Cardiff was too busy - but then I did come from the middle of nowhere.

Still a nice city though - and quite posh these days :D

[Debbie P.]

:nice1 Couldnt agree more!

It us that have caused the demise of the high street. How many of us dont / didnt shop at Tescos, asda, safeway, etc?

Well, I shopped at my local butchers and fruit & veg shops while they were open, just as my mother in law does in Bristol - she never goes to a supermarket. She's lucky in that she still doesn't have to, but my choices now are Sainsburys, Asda or to go out of town to a farm shop, which I do when I can, but I also work 8.30 to 5.30 every day, so it's not easy to find the time.

No, I'm not blaming local authorities for the demise of the high street, but there's definitely a sense in which the UK government allows these big companies to dominate the market - look at Tescos.

Re. Mark's comment:
We lived in Poole and I drove to Bournemouth each day for work, 6 miles taking at least 30 minutes. We now live outside Christchurch, I drive 30 km to work and it takes me the same time, 30 minutes. Christchurch has about the same population as Poole and Bournemouth combined.

You're not missing anything - the section between Poole and Bournemouth is getting worse all the time! Get this, on the hottest day of the year so far, the council in their wisdom decided to close one lane of the A338 to cut the lawn!! Some people were stuck in their cars for 1 hour just travelling the bit between Ringwood and Bournemouth, and 6 girls from Bournemouth School for Girls had to be taken to hospital after collapsing from heat exhaustion.

But maybe I should get some perspective... and if not, move to the Scottish Highlands to get my peace and quiet!

[Debbie P.]

Hi Debbie,

Sorry, but you cannot blame the local authorities for the loss of local shops. The only reason for local shops leaving is that they can not compete with the big supermarkets anymore. The ones who make the small local shops leaving, are the consumers themselves who do not want to pay that extra bit of money for services around the corner!! You see this happening all over the world. Luckily in NZ there are the dairies (nearly 100% of them run by people from India) where you can get some basic groceries at high prices.

I am from The Netherlands; you want to talk crowded areas?

Anita
Wellington

By the way, Anita, I think you misunderstood what I said :) I wasn't blaming the local authorities for the loss of local shops, I was blaming them for the lack of decent local services - by which, I mean roads that are wide enough to cope with the traffic and good use of space for car parking.

[Diny]

Commenting on the UK beaches being overcrowded. We used to refer to this as 'Barmouth Beach Syndrome'. That being - people park their cars, walk onto the beach and the instant they feel the sand between their toes they plonk themselves down - and that's where they stay. If you walk down the beach a couple of hundred yards you'll get lots of room, hardly any people and the peace and quiet we all crave.

I have to say that much is the same for our local beach over here in NZ too. The section of sand by the car park is alwasy buzzing, go a little further down and it's deserted.

Diny

[markkellaway]

Hi Diny,

Trust me, on the beaches in Poole and Bournemouth on a nice day in the summer the crowds aren't just near the car park, where incidentally you have to take out a mortgage to park. It's difficult to find space for a towel anywhere, and there is certainly no peace and quiet! :)

Cheers,

Mark.

[Moorf]

Not even Hengistbury Head was tranquil :no - as a kid we used to go there (does anyone remember Tucktonia :o ) and be the only ones on the beach - these days it's like playing sardines. Even Lulworth and other places we used to go for peace and quiet are now covered in hoards of people.... and that's if you can be bothered to drive anywhere on a Bank Holiday in the UK... I find the UK's "holiday spots" awful and have always avoided them like the plague...

But.. go to Red Wharf bay on Anglesey or East Sands near St Andrews and you could well be the only person on the beach. :nice1

[Smiler]

Not even Hengistbury Head was tranquil - as a kid we used to go there (does anyone remember Tucktonia ) and be the only ones on the beach - these days it's like playing sardines. Even Lulworth and other places we used to go for peace and quiet are now covered in hoards of people.... and that's if you can be bothered to drive anywhere on a Bank Holiday in the UK... I find the UK's "holiday spots" awful and have always avoided them like the plague...

But.. go to Red Wharf bay on Anglesey or East Sands near St Andrews and you could well be the only person on the beach. :nice1

Weird that, my friend just sent me a pic of his dog on hengistbury head beach, it was empty but it was 8 am. It's the only beach he can let the dog run on in the summer months.

Poole is just heaving nowadays, especially with the busloads of grockles being dumpled off at the pottery etc. The harbour roads just weren't built to cope with that amount of traffic. :no

We used to love wandering round brighton, but not any more. The queue for the car park starts somewhere near the A272 junction and if there's an accident, that's it you're stumped.

Anglesey, now your talking...done some excellent diving up there. :nice1

[Moorf]

Anglesey, now your talking...done some excellent diving up there.

It's where my Dad was bought up and my grandparents lived there until my gran died 2 yrs ago - spent many a happy time there. :) They lived in Amlwch... :nice1 - I could live in Beaumaris - lovely wee town.

It's not just the crowds that put me off the coast in the UK (south coast mainly) but the water too - I used to waterski a lot off Wittering / Worthing / Littlehampton and the last time I did so I ended up in hospital with gastroenteritis and an ear and nose infection... from the water. Nothing worse than swimming around trying to escape floaters..... :exit

I haven't done any checks into the water quality here - but I haven't been ill or had to doggy paddle away from a dodgy looking bit of loo roll......

[Smiler]

We used to stay at Rhoscolyn and Treaddur bay if I remember correctly. Completed the last parts of my training up there.

But it was always a bit far from West Sussex for a day trip. :(

Used to dive out of Littlehampton and off IOW, I know where you're coming from on the errr............ water pollution thing and we used to take the boat quite a way out too. :uhoh

The journey back from L'hampton was always slow, so we started to go on weekdays and avoid the daytrippers. It also meant the boat slips were less busy.

[kiwidebs]

It's not just the crowds that put me off the coast in the UK (south coast mainly) but the water too - I used to waterski a lot off Wittering / Worthing / Littlehampton and the last time I did so I ended up in hospital with gastroenteritis and an ear and nose infection... from the water. Nothing worse than swimming around trying to escape floaters..... :exit

I haven't done any checks into the water quality here - but I haven't been ill or had to doggy paddle away from a dodgy looking bit of loo roll......

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/wuerg/vomit-smiley-005.gif

[Avalon]

Im with Kiwidebs! Too much info :wah

[gil]

But.. go to Red Wharf bay on Anglesey or East Sands near St Andrews and you could well be the only person on the beach. :nice1

Or some of the Pembrokeshire bays and beaches...:D


'Barmouth Beach Syndrome'. That being - people park their cars, walk onto the beach and the instant they feel the sand between their toes they plonk themselves down - and that's where they stay. If you walk down the beach a couple of hundred yards you'll get lots of room, hardly any people and the peace and quiet we all crave.

I agree Diny, never fails to amaze me at places like Rest Bay in Porthcawl! Bit of a walk and the crowds do thin out to almost zero!

Gil

[Keith]

Personnely the biggest sign of overcrowding in the UK is the noise and light.

let me explain,

You can walk up my local Hill (in somerset) and see now one for hours, however ther is always the sound of traffic in the background. even up the mountains of wales and cumbria you can hear the cars.

Then there is the light pollution, how often have you been abroad to europe and said boy look at all those stars. the horizon is always orange in the UK.

:wah

[willsken]

Personnely the biggest sign of overcrowding in the UK is the noise and light.

Then there is the light pollution, how often have you been abroad to europe and said boy look at all those stars. the horizon is always orange in the UK.

:wah

With you on the light thing. We have a telescope - it's always too light to get a decent veiw. I am going to bring it with me as I live in hope :)

[Moorf]

Oh boy, a telescope here would blow your socks off! We have a pro astronomer in the village who has a massive set up in his garden. Bring it! I hope to get one too :nice1

[Diny]

The night sky over here is breathtaking. In fact, this would be one of the few occasions where the word 'awesome' is correct. I remember the very first time I saw the night sky here in NZ, I was almost moved to tears - just blankets of stars - wonderful.

Have to say though Keith, I've been to some pretty remote parts of the UK and I can honestly say that I've only heard the 'noises of nature'. Totally agree that traffic noise polutes most areas, totally disagree that noise polutes ALL areas. guess it all depends on where you sit !!!

Diny

[Smiler]

I notice the difference in the quality of light too. It's overcast today but the light is still bright (if that makes any sense at all) I have the blinds pulled halfway down to stop me squinting and getting crows feet. :laugh.

I'm wearing my sunglasses most of the time outside too. :cool:

The sky at night is something else and like Diny it has moved me to tears. Staying in the middle of nowhere in NP, I had never seen anything like it and notice it much more now, here in Welly.

We've got decent binoculars to look through at daytime stuff in the harbour etc and we're investigating a telescope too. Can't wait.

[Cardiff Irons]

.....and we're investigating a telescope too. Can't wait.Hmmm, seems a mighty strange coincidence given the recent proliferation of firemen in the smiler neighbourhood. ;)

[Smiler]

Hmmm, seems a mighty strange coincidence given the recent proliferation of firemen in the smiler neighbourhood. ;)

And strange woman has been reported to be lurking in the fire station vincinity too. :laugh:laugh:laugh

[willsken]

Glad to hear it will be of use to me! :) It was a birthday present for Ian and I was disapointed that we didn't get more from it. Can't wait!! If fact I am getting to the stage that I can't wait full stop for December! :clap