[Sparks]

HI EVERYONE,NEW TO FORUM,THINK IT'S A GREAT PLACE TO FIND OUT THE REAL DEAL ABOUT NZ,IF THERE IS A REAL DEAL-IT SEEMS THAT THERE IS SUCH A DIFFERENCE IN PEOPLE'S POINT OF VIEWS,DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU COME FROM AND WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.THER HAS BEEN SUCH A HUFF LOCALLY ABOUT EXPAT SA BADMOUTHING SA THAT IT'S A COMMON TOPIC,FUNNY ENOUGH,BORN AND BRED HERE,I SEEM TO AGREE WITH ALOT THE PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY,THERE'S ALOT OF THINGS JUST GOING WRONG HERE?? :mad:
I'M PLANNING TO MAKE THE MOVE TO NZ SOON,I'VE HEARD THAT THERE ARE QUITE A FEW SA PEOPLE THERE,LIKE TO HEAR YOUR COMMENTS ON NZ,WHER YOU LIVE AND HOW YOU EXPERIENCE NZ.

[willsken]

Hi Sparks welcome to the forum. Can't tell you about NZ yet as we aren't going there until December. :nice1

[Bergita]

Hi Sparks, welcome to the forum. It does seem to depend where you're from as to how you view New Zealand. I've seen someone complaining about somebody wanting to wash their windscreen at a traffic light in New Zealand. Coming from South Africa as I do, that really made me laugh. If only that was the worst of our problems here.

I have to say, I do love my country, and have been resistant to relocation for years, but the time has come to make the move for my daughter's sake.

I suppose it also depends on your reasons for moving... a lot of South Africans leave the country hoping to get rich quickly elsewhere, so they can come back home and live in a fortress. We're just hoping to have a more peaceful lifestyle, spend more time with our daughter, and maybe we'll even have the guts to go ahead and have that second child. :o

Hope you find all your answers here, it's certainly been useful to us.

[Lizelle]

Hi Sparks.

Well, I have been in NZ for about 18 months now. I suppose your point of view depends greatly on why you are moving.

We moved from Pretoria to Auckland. I am still studying, so we needed to go to a country where we could get permanent residence quickly, and NZ was the quickest. After 18 months I can tell you that we will be moving to Aus as soon as we can (which is about 2 years from now).

But, then again, our reasons for leaving SA was simply to get out of SA (don't know if you have seen the new website www.crimexposouthafrica.co.za, but that makes me very glad not to be there anymore). We want to create a beter future with more choices for our future children. For that, just about any country would do. We came to NZ without ever having been here, so we did not have any idea of what to expect. Now that we are out of SA, our next move will be for comfort of living, and we will go look at a lot of places in Aus before we make our move.

I do not know if our view of NZ would have been different if we were able to live in a different city (think of Johannesburg and Pretoria combined, while no planning went in to the actual layout of the roads and traffic flow). Auckland drives me up the walls, but for at least the next 2 years we have to stay, so it is simply one of those things.

Fruit are really expensive here. It was something that I found really strange. Also, something like avos are sometimes $1 each for a prissy little one. Meat taste awfull. As far as I can tell, it has to do with the fact that the cattle eat only grass, and not also grain like in South Africa.

NZ seems to have gone subdivision mad years before, and now you don't have blocks of houses like you do in SA with a road all around it. You have a road with 4 houses stacked at the back of each other. The idea of adding more bathrooms as the houses gets bigger also seems to be lost on most of the builders.

Highways are more often than not a single lane road that bears trucks. Oh, and the weather sucks :)

Having said all of that, we are still not sorry that we came. Like I said, we moved for our peace of mind, rather than trying to upgrade in lifestyle (though that will be the eventual outcome)

Government services actually work. I applied for my drivers license on a Saturday, and received the license in the post on the Wednesday (the monday was a vacation). People get their post at their houses (even those that live half a days ride away in the mountains somewhere - it never ceases to amaze me)
There are ducks walking around freely, I love that. When I applied for a telephone line, it took me a day. Electricity cuts are almost non existent where I am in Auckland. Water is so cheap, it is pretty much free (though I don't know what the situation is in the rest of NZ)

You can freely use public transport (though it can be very frustrating at times). Liquor stores are open long after the dairies close, and are even open Sundays untill 8 in the evening :)

Oh, and this one you will especially enjoy...
Just after we moved into our new house we forgot the garage door open for the whole day (with an open door into the rest of the house). We got home that evening and everything was still there - amazing.
We have no bars on the windows, and no security gate or alarm system.

When I landed, I forgot my passport at one of the writing cubicles where you stand to fill in your landing form. I went to stand in line, and realized that I left my passport. I went back to where I left it, and it was gone! Then a guy told me that it was taken to the police counter. Where in SA would you see that.

Every murder is headline news for a week, along with the progress of the police investigation. More often than not, within a month someone is arrested for the murder. Obviously you will have crime of some sort where ever you go, but it is kept to a minimum, and properly investigated.

House prices in Auckland is ridiculous, but most of the rest of the country seems much better.

Cost of living is about comparable to SA if you convert to about R4 for $1 (so $200 shopping would give you about the same amount of stuff as R800). But you do get very cheap stuff at the Warehouse (say, a cutlery set for $10 or something). It is not all that durable, but for stuff that needs to last a year or two, they are great. I have found the electronic stores extremely disappointing, but that's just me. Also, NZ has no equivalent to Menlyn or such. Most of the shopping centers are very small (although a big one has open to much fanfare in South Auckland)

Sorry if I seem to complain a lot, it is not my intention, but you asked an opinion, and that is mine. Like I said, if we lived in Christchurch, it is quite possible that my view of NZ would have been much different, but as we don't, it isn't :)

Oh, and I miss van der Merwe jokes :)

Just one more thing, when we move, we will have saved a great deal more than would have ever been possible in SA (not all that difficult with the exchange rate, I know, but still)

So, that is the ups and downs of NZ for me

I miss SA greatly, but will not move back there in the foreseable future (read the next 30 or so years).

Cheers
Lizelle

[Moorf]

What a great post :nice1 enjoyed reading it and seeing what is important to people from different countries!

[Singel]

Hi Sparks, welcome to the forum. It does seem to depend where you're from as to how you view New Zealand. I've seen someone complaining about somebody wanting to wash their windscreen at a traffic light in New Zealand. Coming from South Africa as I do, that really made me laugh. If only that was the worst of our problems here.


NZ find it hazardous to have people washing windscreen at traffic light junction so there is a law to ban this act.

[Smiler]

Hi Sparks

Welcome to the forum. :cheers

Good post Lizelle. :nice1

It's easy for some of us to forget why people leave their home country.

[RMJ]

NZ find it hazardous to have people washing windscreen at traffic light junction so there is a law to ban this act.

In SA they find it hazardous as well with a difference though....Its ok for the guy doing the washing, its extremely hazardous for the driver of the car.....

[wilson182]

Welcome to the forum Sparks, and what an interesting thread. I enjoyed reading such balanced and to the point posts.

[Lizelle]

"In SA they find it hazardous as well with a difference though....Its ok for the guy doing the washing, its extremely hazardous for the driver of the car....."
(i don't know how to do the quote thing)

so true :)

thanks guys. I have to say, I am pleasantly suprised by the response, I was awaiting a bit of a flogging :)

[Avalon]

Lizelle,

Your post was amazing. Its such a different perspective on life here.

[Singel]

In SA they find it hazardous as well with a difference though....Its ok for the guy doing the washing, its extremely hazardous for the driver of the car.....
I thought this thread is about NZ, apparently not :confused:

[Lizelle]

I thought this thread is about NZ, apparently not :confused:

:)
I suppose more like the difference between NZ and SA

[terbo]

Hey Sparks,

Welcome to the forum-like others from SA we are looking to make the move for our children. I was saying to my wife the other day that the VERY reason so many kiwis are leaving New Zealand is the very reason why many Saffers want to go!!It is quiet and peaceful most of the time.I think some Kiwis get bored!!! And the rugby team is good but more importantly so is the TROUT FISHING!!! ;)

We have just got the ball rolling and have a long way to go on this emigration road but have already recieved so much help from a lot of people on this forum. :yes

all the best
Terbo

[High]

Lizelle, thank you so much for such a detailed, insightful description of NZ. Your post correlates a lot with what I've already heard from other Saffas out there. :nice1

I guess most (if not all) of the Saffas emigrating to NZ just want to get away from the crime and fear. OH and I are very much looking forward to living on the ground floor without having to worry whether our burglar bars are going to be kicked in AGAIN!

Anyway, thanks!

By the way, OH and I are handing in our ITA today! YAY! :clap

[Lizelle]

OH and I are very much looking forward to living on the ground floor without having to worry whether our burglar bars are going to be kicked in AGAIN!


Yip, know that feeling. OH's parents used to own a farm (luckily they sold it). They had 4 locked doors before you got into their bedroom. I used to live on the 6th floor, and had bars on the windows at the back (with a six story drop).
My dad had been held up at gunpoint twice, our house has been broken into (of course without any help from the police). We have received death threads. Couple of people I know has been murdered. For some time when I was at school our bus had an armed escort to and from school, and so on and so forth.

You never quite lose that vigilant feeling of knowing exactly what is going on around you, but in NZ it is sort of a background thing. You no longer have that constant threat hanging over you, and whatever else is wrong with NZ, that is a great feeling :)

[Lizelle]

oh, and congrats on the ita. It is an amazing feeling when you finally get that passport back with it's wonderfull little visa in it :)

[High]

Thanks! It's a great feeling to hand it all in, and not have that constant worry that it's in the house and someone might break in! We've also had a few "incidents" - broken into twice, OH held up with a knive, hubcaps stolen off my car in a SECURE parking lot that I paid for! And then obviously friends stabbed and held up as well.

Horrible feeling isn't it? I know exactly when you mean about that "constant vigilance and awareness of what's going on around you"!

Now we can look forward to NZ!!!! :raebanana

[Bergita]

Just a note to Singel - when I made the comment about people washing windscreens at windows being a small problem, I was only speaking comparatively. Here in SA, we have numerous homeless people who beg at the traffic lights, often mothers with children, or young men that can get quite abusive when you roll up your window, hawkers selling clothes pegs and shade nets and toys and sweets and newspapers and magazines... you name it - all inbetween rush hour traffic! Not to mention the window washer guys, who will often start washing even if you tell them not to, leave greasy smears all over your windscreen and hurl abuse when you don't pay them for it.

All of which is why I would move for the privilege of a few isolated cases of windscreen washers, and none of the rest. Getting from A to B in SA can be really hazardous, when you have to contend with the traffic light crowds, minibus taxis who's drivers often travel armed, cars that are completely unroadworthy, no safe parking anywhere, etc. A friend of mine has lost 3 car radios in the last 3 months, and he's decided just not to buy another one, in the hopes that robbers will leave his car alone.

I can put up with a lot to leave all this behind.

[High]

Oh yes, Bergita, I totally agree with you - all the street beggars/sellers/washers make it quite dangerous te drive in SA. You HAVE to lock your car door and drive with your window closed or else you'll get hijacked!

I also heard lots of stories in Cape Town of beggars who chuck needles through the car windows if you don't give them money. And you can bet those needles aren't clean!

You can't even use the alternative - public transport - because that's even more dangerous!

Roll on NZ, where you can drive with your car window down!! :cheers

(Totally gonna have a pint tonight to celebrate handing our papers in! :cheers )

[wilson182]

Just before I left England I made friends with a chap who had recently moved from SA to Portsmouth and had begun work at the same place as me. We would obviously chat about my plans to move to NZ, and one day I asked him jokingly why he would have chosen England to move to (only cause I was getting out!!) He replied "it depends what you are moving from" His family were also thrilled to be living in a house with no bars on the window, and where it was safe to park your car in the street. He told us a similer story of falling asleep one night and leaving a small window open, and being amazed that nothing had happened to them.

[terbo]

I think true freedom is something a lot of people take for granted. I am not talking about living in a militaristic state where you have curfews etc because SA is far from that (in fact everyone is talking about their rights and nobody accepts their responsibilities). I am talking about fundamental human rights like being able to play with your kids in the park after dark or leave a door unlocked and not pay for it with your life.I realise I might sound a little melodramatic but it is these small things(and there are millions of them!!)that so affect our psyche.So much so that you find yourself in a constant state of fight or flight(which explains the high incidence of aggressive crime in SA)

I want to be able to focus my subconscious energies on things that matter to me and my family- not on whether I locked the car before going to bed or if the bump in the night was the dog,my imagination or an intruder.

just some ramblings
feel free to comment :yes

[High]

Hi Terbo

Just wanted to let you know that I think you've summed up the situation perfectly - especially your comment about basic human rights. (One of which I think is the right to sleep throughout the night without waking up every two hours, scared that your flat will be broken into again!)

[Singel]

Just a note to Singel - when I made the comment about people washing windscreens at windows being a small problem, I was only speaking comparatively. Here in SA, we have numerous homeless people who beg at the traffic lights, often mothers with children, or young men that can get quite abusive when you roll up your window, hawkers selling clothes pegs and shade nets and toys and sweets and newspapers and magazines... you name it - all inbetween rush hour traffic! Not to mention the window washer guys, who will often start washing even if you tell them not to, leave greasy smears all over your windscreen and hurl abuse when you don't pay them for it.

All of which is why I would move for the privilege of a few isolated cases of windscreen washers, and none of the rest. Getting from A to B in SA can be really hazardous, when you have to contend with the traffic light crowds, minibus taxis who's drivers often travel armed, cars that are completely unroadworthy, no safe parking anywhere, etc. A friend of mine has lost 3 car radios in the last 3 months, and he's decided just not to buy another one, in the hopes that robbers will leave his car alone.

I can put up with a lot to leave all this behind.
Ok, now I see where you are coming from :yes
:cheers

[Bergita]

I'm so glad I didn't offend you Singel, I was afraid I did. People often tell me my style of writing is a bit abrupt.

[High]

Hi Bergita

Are you by any chance Afrikaans? I am and I'm told that my style of writing and talking is abrupt - accidentally offended quite a few Brits before I realised! :o

[Bergita]

Hey High,

I'm English actually, but I'm kind of facts-oriented. I lay out everything I want to say, always mean to add something to make it less abrupt, and then can't think of anything to add, because I've said it all already. My boss is always after me to sugar-coat things a bit, when I send out emails describing a problem and a solution, that's all there is... He reckons I should try to come across a bit more diplomatic. He can't tell me how though, and I can't figure out what to add once the facts are in.... Maybe this forum will help me. :D

[Bergita]

I've avoided reading the news for months now, because it's just too depressing, but my OH still does. Here is the perfect example of why we want to leave, and why anywhere is better than here. http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,,2-7-1442_1978031,00.html

I am not exaggerating when I say there is a story like this every second day in this country. This is why I am packing all my things, and leaving, without even seeing NZ, without having any certainties, as the whole thing hinges on a job offer for either myself or my OH.

I stopped reading the news because it makes me cry. Today I'm planning to phone my daughter's school to make them give it to me in writing that NO-ONE will be allowed to fetch my daughter except me or my OH - even though they've already said as much. I don't need to worry about things like this, it makes me nauseous and stressed out, constantly nervous and tearful.

Every night I pray that I'll get out of here with my family and my sanity intact. Sorry if this is too much for everyone.

[High]

Don't apologise Bergita - we all need a place to vent our fears and frustrations, and I think this forum is a good place, where there are so many people who understand exactly how you feel, but who can also give you the hope that you will escape.

Crossing my fingers and "holding my thumbs" ;) that you will get a job asap! I definitely think you're making the right choice to get out of there.

cheers
Sonja

[Smiler]

Don't apologise Bergita - we all need a place to vent our fears and frustrations, and I think this forum is a good place, where there are so many people who understand exactly how you feel, but who can also give you the hope that you will escape.

Crossing my fingers and "holding my thumbs" ;) that you will get a job asap! I definitely think you're making the right choice to get out of there.

cheers
Sonja

I'll second that. :nice1

[Singel]

Bergita, keep everything crossed for you - Best of Luck :nice1 :nice1

:)

[zardell]

Every night I pray that I'll get out of here with my family and my sanity intact.


And I pray that your prayers will soon be answered.

God bless.

Julie

xx

[Sparks]

Hi,thanks So Much For The Info,it Certainly Was A Very Good Read.well Leaving Sa For Anywhere Else Is Obviously A Major Decision,there's So Much Nice About The Country But Unfortunately So Much Wrong As Well,things That People In Power/positions Don't Seem To Care About.the Crime Seems To Be Most Prominent On Everybody's Minds,mine As Well,i Cannot Seem To See Myself Living In A Society Where You Are Expected To Accept Things Such As Rape And Murder As A Everyday Scene.
I Really Don't Expect To Come To Nz And Make Heaps Of Money,that's Painfully Obvious,but As Long As I Don't Have To Lock Myself And My Family Away In Our Own Home Then I've Allready Achieved A Sense Of Freedom That's Unattainable In Our New Free Sa.once Again,thanks To Everyone's Threads,and To The Forum For Being Such An Amazing Source Of Information,the Practical Kind That You Can't Get Anywhere Else