[Family Maidment]

I am sure. (No), I know we are not the only family to have relocated to NZ only to have returned to the 'Mother land' and then decided to return to New Zealand.
-

We moved to New Zealand in 04 with a 4 year old and a 5 week old baby??? My husband had managed to get a plumbing job there.

Years before, we used to watch those TV programs on families relocating, commenting if they can do it - then so can we. So we did.

We wanted to apply for a 'Skilled Migrant' visa only to be told as a Plumber, though on the short list, with out the NZ exams, we could not apply. So we arrived on a two year working visa. We were also told by the Plumbing board as they had excepted his UK qualifications, once in NZ with NZ address he could get a full licence, earn more money and work self employed (as the UK). Only to be told on arrival he had to all the NZ Plumbing exams and would take about 4 years to complete!

Not a good start.

Anyway life went on and we settled down, I was going to Kindy and Mother and baby groups (from having been a full time working Mum in the UK, this was lovely, to now be a full time Mum) and Husband working 4 days a week!

One of the first English families we met told us (within a week of arrival) we would soon run out of money and have no savings left!! (Did not sound good, but we had come over with a fair amount of equity from selling up in the UK - enough to buy the house outright anyway - it must be them!).

We were trying to live with in our means (for NZ standards we were earning the average wage and with no mortgage to pay, we should have been ok). However each month the bank balance did not tally up (only by a few $) Other English friends we made were also expressing their distress on lack of money, so within 4 months we had decided to return and look at the whole experience as a fantastic years working holiday and stayed the remainder of the year.

We loved the life style, brought a tent, 2 x canoes, 4x4 to go travelling. It seamed to suit us. At Kindy our son would do wood work with real nails and a blunt saw. He started school and loved it. Would walk 2 hours to see a waterfall and then about-turn to walk back to the car (he was 5!).

We were sad to leave, but felt we would be financially better off back in the UK.

I knew I would not miss the beloved Pac'n'Save and I was so excited to return to Sainsburys. I could not wait to go to M&S.

Although we were only away for a year we had noticed the change in the UK. The local paper had started to print the pages also in Portuguese. The local school playing field will have 250 new houses built on it to add to the new estate across the road of 1500 houses? Where was our open space? We hated London when we went for a visit too many people and the traffic! No one in the town speaks English!

Sainsburys - I always leave with a trolley load, though I may have only popped in for 2 items! M&S - apart from a new top I can not think of anything else I have brought. Some of the things I thought I had missed.

With husband starting up his business again the money was not rolling in as we had expected. Some days he will be stick in traffic and a 7 mile journey to the next town can and often dose take an hour? I remember the traffic in NZ, you would be steaming behind the wheel if their were 4 cars in front of you at the traffic lights!

Anyway - a few months ago we were evaluating our new life in the UK vs NZ and decided NZ was not all that bad (Ok Pac'n'Save would not have changed, and you can't get Bisto or nice sausages with out paying the earth, but you can't win then all). We had heard on the grape vine that they had changed the rules for Plumbers and they were now letting them enter on the 'Skilled Migrant' visa. On looking at the points we could get 130 (10 short of the automatic application) with out a job. Just for interest we sent off Husbands CV and with in 2 hours he was offered a job having had his NZ references checked!! We now have 195 points!!!

My son only spent 1 term in a NZ school and having this week received his UK report (now 1 year in a UK school) I am convinced he learned more in the 1 term than he has this past year in the UK. I was shocked at the poor standard.

With these things in mind, we are 80% sure we will return in the new year to New Zealand.

We love walking, camping, canoeing, son loves Rugby (no good at it mind you - but supports the All Blacks). We hated what we called Slack & Slave. Now know, you neaver buy anything from Brisco's at full price as the following week it will have a discount of 50%. Wait for the sales at Kathmandou for jumpers. Patch will be come 'Best' childrens clothes (where as over here their is no difference in price between them and Teaco's) No bisto or good cheep sausages, so Toad in the Hole will become a special meal not a midweek meal. We lived just about, within my husbands wages last time and this time with the boys being older I can go back to work. Also in about 4 years time husband could become a craftsman plumber and could earn better wages.

The visa application forms are sitting on our kitchen table, along with the job offer - Do we fill them out???

Or are we again looking through those rose coloured glasses, seeing greener grass?

Please help :confused: - and thanks for listerning (well reading - you know what I mean)

[marcia]

Wonderful post and welcome to the forum.

Can't advise you either way, that has to be your decision. But speaking to some people in the dentists today they have said they are amazed at the number of people they hear are leaving the uk for NZ and Australia, talk about rats deserting a sinking ship? (follow the rats sounds like a good idea!!)

Anyway good luck in whatever you decide to do. At least you have experienced both living in the NZ and the uk to compare, we just had a month there! :o

Keep us informed of your decisions and I'm sure you'll be able to help with loads of questions we all have - having already been there and lived our dream :p

[pinkpiggy]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Marcia is right in that staying in the UK or going to NZ has to be your decision and yours alone. One thing that did come through in your message is that you loved NZthe life style in NZ. Maybe you could work part time if you went to NZ? At least while your children are still young and as you say, your husband will be able to get a better job in 4 years time.

[Cardy]

HI my old boss in england did exactly what you did . came to nz on a temp visa stayed two years but was spending more than he earned and his wife was home sick . they returned to england and then decided they had made a big mistake and there quality of life was better in NZ unfortunately he has to start the application proces all over again as he has left it too long. When i told him i had ben acepted he told me the pitfalls to watch out for and touch wood we seem to be overcoming them. 5 people from my wife old class at school are emigrating or have already done so to AUS or NZ and when we went for our medials the doctor said he had never seen so many people wanting to emigrate they were struggling to keep up. We lived in doncaster in england and when we arrived here the kids music teacher was from conisbrough (half hour drive from doncaster) the furniture delivery man was from maltby (half hour drive from doncaster) and the truancy officer was from liverpool. i think we will soon outnumber the kiwis. Do miss a few things from UK but not many. Good luck whichever path you decide to follow. Cheers Cardy

[pinkpiggy]

Oops pressed the submit button by accident.... silly me.

It does sound to me as though you are not settled in the UK but maybe that's because at the back of your mind you're thinking of that greener grass.

Maybe you should sit down and write out a list of pros and cons and see what the answer is?

Whatever your decision, I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

[katandbob]

yes good luck on your soul searching...and hey I have been here 2mths and I am beginning to like Slack & Slave :laugh :laugh .....but there again I shopped at NETTOS! its basically the same...same colour scheme!! ha ha ;) But I do miss Tescos! (I have reqested a care package via my daughter when she visits in January!)

Yes there are some things that are annoying, being charged for every sneeze at the banks for one, but I know if I went home I would feel worse, So I am accepting what I cant change, and trying to work around it (bank balance is looking good at the minute as we dont have a house _ YET)

But I am less bothered about what I wear, I am having my first dinner party on friday night (note to self...go buy some baking ware!!!!)

and I am going riding again on Saturday, the horse I been rode by Blythe Tate! (who I hear you say :-))

So yes.....some things are worth the effort and we are trying hard to make it work here.

Welcome to the forum and again good luck

Kat

[Diny]

Welcome to the forum !!!! What a good post, really enjoyed reading it. Like everybody else has mentioned, the decision can only be made by yourselves - but you asked for 'advice/opinions' so I guess it's OK to give them.

Personally I think there's a fair balance between UK & NZ. The things that irritate you about one country still exisit in the other - just maybe at a different degree. Emigrating is a massive learning curve, we find ourselves craving the familiar, we place our memories on some kind of pedestal, then when we revisit them they often appear to have lost their lustre. Similarly, it's human nature to view our alternatives through rose tinted specs, we've all done it (and some still do). Reality can be (and often is) very different, as you have found out.

I think the best way to decide is to put all the 'details' to one side and assess your own personal happiness. Where do you, as a family, actually FEEL best. Which location gives you a happy heart? If you find the answer to that question the answers to all the other questions will fall into place. Sounds simple eh - but we all know it's not.

I too miss M&S and Sainsbury's, I just 'max out' in them when I visit the UK. Real Bisto, sausages and decent chocolate are right at the top of my 'miss list' ..... they are now real treats instead of everyday items.

There's no right or wrong answer here I'm afraid, as far as this decision goes you're on your own, all we can do is wish you the best and offer all the support in the world.

As a final note, your view of the 'level' of education your son received suprised me. It's a well known fact that my opinions of the NZ education system are far from positive. But that's OK ..... like one very sensible forum member recently mentioned, it's OK not to be in love with everything about NZ. The same applies to the UK ......... you have to weigh up the pros and cons and decide which hemisphere you're going to land in.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Diny

[sarahw]

Hi,

You're right, there are a few yo-yoers on this forum & we know others... I do sympathise with your situation - its a tough decision to make. Will you regret not going back or will you regret staying? Noone can know now.

There will be things you'll miss from either country... but you have to decide what you prefer for you & your kids lives. If its the outdoor life & not having loads of money, so be it, if its financial security & accessibility to shops, services (and sausages ;o) then, again, you know the decision. (But remember, you came home for a reason - you have to be pretty sure that the reasons you came home in the first place aren't going to resurface if you come back to NZ). As you know its not a cheap process to move everything over here. The way we came to our decision was to write out all the pros and cons of living in each place. It helped in our discussions rather than decision making but was a useful tool to see what was really on our minds.

By the way - my mum ships Bisto out to me by the carton - couldn't live without it :o)

[pleccy2000]

Great post there. I have tried emigrating 3 times int he last 6 years!!! a lot of what you said rings true with me also. I am going back to NZ in a couple of months - hopefully fo rgood this time!

[Avalon]

(edited to say: Pleccy:


Hey - Finally! I wondered if you were EVER going to come back here! Where are you heading - and what (if anything) will you be doing different from the other times.

Best of luck!

[willsken]

Yes there are some things that are annoying, being charged for every sneeze at the banks for one, Kat

If it makes you feel any better HSBC in the UK have just said they are going to start charging in credit customers. Only a matter of time before all the banks here do the same. Makes me sick that this was said in the same statement that declared banks making bigger profits than almost any other industry!

[Diny]

I have to agree that banks over here do charge like a raging bull, however, the blow is softened somewhat by the fact that the service you get (well in our experience anyway) is absolutely A1 !!!

Direct dial to the person you want, an actual person on the end of the line, everything done the moment you ask ... in fact everything you could possibly want. Our 'chap at the bank' has been moved to a different branch for 3 weeks, yesterday he phoned me to tell me his new temp number and to ask if all is OK and do we need anything. Now that's what I call service.

At the end of the day, I wouldn't expect that kind of service from any other 'company' without paying for it.

Diny

[Family Maidment]

Thank's for all your messages - I do realise, we, at the end of the day are the only ones to who can make the choice of where we should live, as it will be us living our lives. But that does not make the decission any easier - only worse. :confused: :-
_

The big downside of New Zealand for us is the money side of things - I mean that was the big reason why we left in the first place. We know if we return we will struggle and I will have to work (which I do here). We will most proberly not be able to save much - well not at least until the boys are much older. But is that how we want to live for the rest of our lives. The main thing about being Plumber is after he has sat his Craftsman exams he could go alone and earn more money, but then we also know the government will tax him highly for being a sole trader. This is really the only negative reason for not going back to NZ, and though we will not know until we arrive how big a problem is any it will be, is it a risk we are prepared to take, knowing we will not be able to return to the UK again and pick up (like last time) where we left, financially.

The plus side of New Zealand with raising boys seams so long I will be here all evening listening them off.

Ok since we returned the money was not identical as we left and those first few months leading up to Christmas were hard, but then again a box of Pringles were not a luxury item, unlike last year in NZ. The amount of new houses going up (we live in on the South Coast) is unreal with not additional facilities including water being added. I can not believe since we returned, and all through the winter, we have been on a hose pipe ban!!! They are planning to close the two local hospitals, so we would have to go to Brighton or Portsmouth both an hour away in either direction. We love camping and with the extra few months of better weather in NZ it is easier to go away for a weekend. We all enjoy canoeing and here their are not many places (even though we live on the coast) to get into the water safely with the boys. Their is so much traffic here and you always sit in long jams no matter where you go.

We just seam to be going around in circles with what to do - though the forms are completed we as yet have not sent them off, as we know once they are posted in our minds their will be no turning back, so we want to make sure before we post them.

The increase in petrol / utilities is the same in both countries. We have a mortgage here, we would only need a very small mortgage in NZ (tops $100!) and that would just be to keep some money in the bank. We have no car loan and would ship the car back to NZ, where we brought it in the first place. I could get use to Pack'n'Save, we still comments how nice their pies were compared to the ones in the UK.

Though I don't even know you guys - It seams good to write. Isn't that what they say 'It's good to talk to a stranger'.

[Hannah]

Family Maidment
I can relate to your dilemma - we were only in NZ for 7 months and in that short time many things had changed in the UK for us. My job (in the NHS) is part of the biggest restructure to ever affect the health service (introduction of private company run service through the back door etc etc etc), houses been built left right and centre in our town (and, as you say, no infrastructure such as schools, swimming pools, leisure facilities, dentists/GPs, shops, jobs, water etc. to serve them - so the original locals will just have to queue even more to use the limited local facilities), a realisation that the education system is anally retentive and performance indicator obsessed etc. Yet at the same time we came back and felt like we had never been away - everything just looked so 'normal'
We are in the difficult position that hubby wants to stay in the UK and I would up and go back to NZ tomorrow, despite the struggle over finances. In hubbys eyes we simply can't afford to live there. I'm willing to scrimp and save, and to not have a pension, savings etc. and to 'benefit' in other areas, but he's not. It's as simple as that. We left for NZ back in Nov. with the view that if we didn't all agree it was the right thing to do then we would not emigrate. We are both in agreement that if a lottery win came by us tomorrow then we would not hesitate to emigrate to NZ. What amazes me is that our jobs paid reasonably well (mine paid more than I was earning in UK) and yet we just couldn't balance the books each month. We didn't drink alcohol, didn't smoke, didn't go on holiday, only eat out occasionally, didn't really buy clothes and other goods, I don't wear make up, etc etc. Where did the money go? It just seemed to disappear. Some things were cheaper but many things were dearer. A few costly medical bills didn't help. The visits hubby made to GP just before we left seemed to be the straw that broke the camels back (especially as the condition didn't clear up with treatment anyway!).
Still I love New Zealand and still I want to go back. The money thing didn't bother me - I'd have worked it out. I guess NZ has that appeal to some people. And yet rationally our working lives left us working long long hours, travelling long distances, and towards the end of our stay there having no social life and limited family time together. We had more time as a family in UK and worked less hours, earning more for the amount of hours we did work...so I can see hubbys point of view there. Financially and rationally staying in the UK is probably the right thing, but my heart choses NZ every time. We may go back, but not in the near future. I'm hoping a crappy winter here will convince hubby that another, more longer, trip to NZ is in order and then I can scrounge a cup of tea round Paul and Linda's again (really miss you guys by the way!!!)
Hannah

[Family Maidment]

I have to agree Hannah - If our numbers come up on Saturday we will be off on Monday - problem solved!! (keep your fingers crossed - as they say, 'it could be you'!)

[spudulike]

Hi, This is (another) really interesting thread!

We moved to NZ in Feb with the intention of it being permanent, however we now are looking at staying 2 years and heading back to the UK in time for our eldest child to start school there. I'm with Diny on the education system as almost everyone I have spoken too has compared the NZ system unfavourably to the UK (However, that is a different thread...).

We know that despite hubby being in a well paid job even when I go back to work we will not be able to save for pensions or our children's University fees. We also are more likely to ba able to afford a holiday to Oz or the Pacific Islands on a UK wage than a NZ one.

We don't find the pros of NZ outweigh the cons unfortunately. All the obvious reasons for living here, i.e. outdoors life etc just don't pay the bills - and there are alot of them!! I have to say too that I have never experienced such weather in the UK as I have here and am freezing cold in my own home on top of that!!

Sorry if it comes across as a moan but hopefully you wanted honest opinions. I would suggest you write a list of the reasons you went home and the reasons you want to come back and make sure you can't get what you want in another part of the UK that is less crowded than the SE (most of it!)

Good luck and keep us posted.

Louise