[noobie]

I'm greatly interested in moving to NZ, but I'm concerned about what I've read regarding "tall poppy syndrome." I don't consider myself arrogant, but I'm smart (tested IQ at 142) and a lot of people mistake the confidence that comes with intelligence for arrogance.

Just how bad IS tall poppy syndrome? I already have great difficulty meeting people who I connect with here in the US, and I'd hate to come to NZ and find that because I'd rather read than watch rugby that I'm shunned.

Don't worry about offending anyone—I'd much rather hear honest responses now and save disappointment later.

[anna_c]

I think there's a distinction between intelligence and being very driven and after success at all costs. Not that the latter would be totally out of place, but that seems to be where you might experience tall poppy syndrome.

I'd much rather sit down with a book than watch rugby, I have a group of friends who are the same and whilst it may not be everyone's cup of tea it certainly doesn't cause any problems - I can get on fine with people without us thinking we have to have the same interests.

[Park City Partner]

Smart is one thing, self-centered is another. Tall popy is more about attitude than intelligence I think. It is also cultural. As an American my Kiwi boyfriend cautioned me when we first came over. He encourage me to be a bit more low key and hang back then to be too extroverted and potentially being mis-interpreted. I think if you try to be more humble, low key and listen more than folks tend to do in the States you will be fine...although hard saying not knowing you. Also, be very careful about not using the phrase "In the States..." too often.

[Oregonkiwi]

I agree with the other posts. There's a good wikipedia entry on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome
An excerpt -
This phenomenon is often misinterpreted by foreign observers as a resentment of others' success. For the majority of the population, however, the targets are those who are seen as taking themselves too seriously or flaunting their success without humility. Apparent cases of tall poppy syndrome can often be explained as resentment not of success but of snobbery and arrogance. Many Australasians have achieved success and wealth without attracting such hostility (e.g. Dick Smith); they usually do so by remaining humble about their achievements and avoiding "lording" their success over others. Thus, Australians and New Zealanders are often self-deprecating, especially those in the public eye.

In modern Australasia, tall poppy syndrome is frequently invoked as an explanation when a public figure is on the receiving end of negative publicity — even if such publicity can be seen as a result of that person's own misconduct.

That last paragraph is particularly true I think - the attitude that, 'it's not my fault that I'm not getting the good things I "deserve", it's that damn tall poppy syndrome'.

[gil]

Hi Noobie,
Interesting question. I can't shed any light on the NZ experience for tall poppies, as we have not yet arrived there. I would like to add my thoughts on the more general aspect of settling into a new culture or community though. One thing that makes a difference in my experience is "looking for like-ness" rather than "detailing difference". What are the similarities that you can connect with, as opposed to identifying and focusing on what sets you apart.
It's about being flexible and open to the new culture and new experiences and boils down to attitude, as Park City Partner points out. If we focus on others and look to be a friend to them, rather than expecting them to reach out to us, it really doesn't matter what our IQ comes out at.
There is an old saying that "comparisons are odious" and anytime we start to compare ourselves with others, a level of dissatisfaction creeps in.
From the look and sound of it, NZ can be a wonderful place to settle (will let you know once we eventaully get there!). How good it is boils down to the individual and the way we see things, as, after all, "We see the world not as it is, but as we are".
Good luck with your plans Noobie, and keep us posted,

Gil

[bob_the_engineer]

Your post really made me laugh noobie, I’ll be as forthright as I can, and try and explain why.

Before I do, I’ll tell you that I’m English and I live in NZ, I think that the NZ and English attitudes are similar (or at least similar compared to those from America on this subject). I’m telling you this so that you know where the answer is coming from.

The other thing is that you did say not to worry about offending, for that reason I will be forthright!

So here goes,,,,,

I feel I fit right in here, despite the fact that I too would rather curl up with a good book than watch any sport!

Something I would never do is post my IQ (my IQ is much higher than yours, and I don’t know if you will get this but that alone is a reason not to post it here)

To declare that you are smart, although it may simply be a fact, is bordering on arrogance, and to be quite honest that’s the key word here arrogance,,, in the UK and I think here in NZ too, arrogance equates to stupidity.

To say that “a lot of people mistake the confidence that comes with intelligence for arrogance” implies that others function at a lower level than you do, and they don’t understand your confidence because they cant begin to imagine just how smart you are, basically because they are so stupid compared to you, hence they mistakenly find you arrogant. Do you understand that could very easily be interpreted as an insult?

Even the name you used for the post is amusing, “Tall poppy syndrome” think about it from the previous perspective.

I know a few Americans here in NZ, they don’t have a problem, its not because they become less confident, or indeed less intelligent, and certainly not quieter :laugh , its simply because they understand that to appear arrogant is to appear as an idiot here, so they adjust their expressions accordingly. That’s all its about “acceptable expressions” not the person you are or what you enjoy doing.

When in Rome eh,,

I hope that’s helpful, I’m really not trying to be awful to you. I’m trying to be honest and helpful.

To be fair many new to NZ Americans I’ve met scr*ew this up to start with, just treat it like learning a new language.

Bob

[StevieD]

My 8 year old daughter with learning difficulties has an IQ of 120 - hope she doesn't become a target :laugh

[clg]

Bob, great post. As an American in NZ for about a year now I agree 100% with what you wrote. I have met migrants who come here loaded up with attitude and a large sense of themselves. They either don't last and go home complaining about how backwards NZ is or they seem to only hang out with other expats. As Parkcityplanner says, starting out with 'In the States...' (or in the UK for that matter) can take things downhill fast. I am amazed at some of the things I have heard expats say both from the US and UK. As a new NZ'r they even offended me!

You have to adjust to NZ you can't expect things to adjust to you.

One last thing, Americans and volume, it is very true! Most Americans that have been here a while seem to speak at a more Kiwi level, there are exceptions though! It really helps you ID the new people and tourisits though!

Chris

[Diny]

starting out with 'In the States...' (or in the UK for that matter) can take things downhill fast.
Chris

Very good post, interesting reading.

Another thing springs to mind here. A long time ago I was talking to one of the locals and they told me that they'd seen very little of us since we moved in. I told them that it was because we'd had to get settled. He then told me that I'd handled it just right, he said that nothing gets up their noses more than 'foreigners' moving into the area and pushing themselves on everybody, trying to make out they're one of the locals as soon as they arrive.

I can't say I agree one way or the other but I could see his point.

Diny

[adamsat]

starting out with 'In the States...' (or in the UK for that matter)

I don't think these words in themselves cause a problem, but the way you say them. I haven't found making a comparison causes a problem, implying that things were much better where you came from does.

Never taking yourself too seriously can go a long way too ;)

[K&CS]

Andy, Ashley Gorge - didn't realise you lived there. We went there for a picnic the first weekend we were in Chch - stunning place to live - you're very lucky!

I agree, of course I talk about how we did things in the UK to kiwis, but as you say, it's often very much by taking the mickey about myself/us as a nation, and you tend to find people respond pretty well.

Diny, I never know how to play it when I move whether it's here or back in the UK. I'm not a 'hi, let me be your new best friend' type of person anyway, but I also don't want to be seen as antisocial. It's difficult to get the balance right of keeping your own space and being approachable - you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't!

I once started an IQ test in a book, and after two pages, realised I hadn't managed to answer a single question correctly. I gave up as I realised I would end up with an IQ of 70-. All you smart folk, do you really think an IQ tests is the definitive way to tell a person's intelligence (and that is a serious question - I'd like to know)?

Kate

[Diny]

Diny, I never know how to play it when I move whether it's here or back in the UK. I'm not a 'hi, let me be your new best friend' type of person anyway, but I also don't want to be seen as antisocial. It's difficult to get the balance right of keeping your own space and being approachable - you're kind of damned if you do and damned if you don't!

Kate


So true ...... very difficult situation. We kind of take the 'wave as you're passing' approach. Abit like Christmas in the German & British trenches in WW1 .... throw a can of bully beef across and take it from there.

Diny

[Diny]

I always think that an IQ test would be more of a 'measuring stick' if, instead of asking 'what comes next in this sequence' kind of questions you were asked varying degrees of general knowledge. During my life there's been zillions of occasions where my general knowledge has been handy ..... I can't think of one occasion where my success has depended on knowing if the next button should be on the left or the right or whether it should be green or blue.

A high IQ is probably abit like having a flash car as opposed to an old model .... nice to have but of no more practical use. One thing's for sure I'll never find out, I tested once at 128 .... hardly enough to make a difference.

[gil]

I once started an IQ test in a book, and after two pages, realised I hadn't managed to answer a single question correctly. I gave up as I realised I would end up with an IQ of 70-. All you smart folk, do you really think an IQ tests is the definitive way to tell a person's intelligence (and that is a serious question - I'd like to know)?
Kate

Personally, I think EQ is far more important than IQ. IQ measures a specific type of intellectual ability that may or may not have any value or bearing on what you engage in in life. There was a fascinating documentary on Channel 4 in the UK recently about an American doctor who set up a spermbank for the genius/gifted in the US during the 70s-90s. Without going into the politics of all this (!), it tracked families who had had AID from the genius bank. One of the children was splashed over the media, Doron Blake I think his name was. His IQ is "off the charts" and he is a sane and well-balanced young man who wants to be a high school teacher. You don't have to have an IQ off the charts to be a teacher, so it could be construed that his IQ has not given him any advantage over anyone else. His own view is that nurture and family is far more important for growth and success than IQ or genes.

EQ (emotional intelligence) is what really makes the difference in working life. It's about being able to connect with people, understand the people environment, be people aware. "Emotional Intelligence" by Daniel Goleman is THE book on the subject, although there have been lots of others who have contributed to this fascinating field. See http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/055338371X/sr=1-1/qid=1154942913/ref=pd_bowtega_1/026-8571571-6168457?ie=UTF8&s=books

Anyway, that's my two-pennorth. I think the key is, if you have a high IQ, just don't let it hold you back!

Gil

[gil]

A high IQ is probably abit like having a flash car as opposed to an old model .... nice to have but of no more practical use.

:laugh:laugh

[willsken]

I once started an IQ test in a book, and after two pages, realised I hadn't managed to answer a single question correctly. I gave up as I realised I would end up with an IQ of 70-. All you smart folk, do you really think an IQ tests is the definitive way to tell a person's intelligence (and that is a serious question - I'd like to know)?

Kate

Hi Kate

An IQ test, in my opinion, is a way of measuring a certain type of intelligence. I have a background in Maths/ICT - a logical person - so in an IQ test I score quite well. BUT I am not that great at English, Geography and Art. So does that make me more intelligent than people whose gifts lie in these directions and maybe they aren't very logical, so don't score as highly in an IQ test. Absolutely not! (Now I am sure there is someone out there who can put me right! :) )

[gil]

An IQ test, in my opinion, is a way of measuring a certain type of intelligence. I have a background in Maths/ICT - a logical person - so in an IQ test I score quite well. B :) )

That's interesting Nic, 'cos I am really not logical at all, but I also score well in trad IQ tests. Who cares, I think is what it boils down to!

So Noobie, has this thread helped?

Gil

[willsken]

Who cares, quite right! Never had any part to play in my life to date - only ever did one for fun. :roll I know, I should get out more :laugh

[Avalon]

This is quite interesting - because I do have some experience of this topic. My OH (Bless him) is one of those quite smart people who knows it. And I have to say - he used to be rather arrogant about it. Especially at work. (he still has his moments - but as the saying goes "Hes a lot better now" :laugh )

When we first started seeing each other (we had known each other for years) I was in part quite intimidated by this huge intellegence. He made me feel thick as sometimes (and im really not :laugh ). And he did have this really quite unpleasant "superiority complex", especially at work again. He tended to look down on people who socialised at work, or werent as good as he was. In some ways, in the UK it worked well for him. He kinda ended up with "Jedi" status becasue of the way he could solve problems that no one else could. (How come no one ever called ME a Jedi????) But in a lot of ways it caused him tremendous problems, and it has not been an easy road for him to quit the superior complex. He has pretty much done it - and I can tell you hes a much nicer guy for it.

I always found it funny though - there he is "Brain the size of a planet" and the common sense of a gnat. :nice1

It took quite a while to make him see that while he may have a rather large intellegence - there was a lot of stuff he was hopeless at. And what if all those people he looked down on - could also justifyably look down on him for what he couldnt do. (We have this between ourselves over my lamentable lack of understanding of world polotics, and his equally lamentable lack of knowlwedge of Englis History - but TOGETHER - we have a lot of bases covered).

So - getting to the point - and answering the question:

Tall poppies - ive really only seen it here applied to "celebs" and i use the term loosly as almost anyone can be a celeb these days.

We have seen an issue at OH's work, basically because his boss genuinely is not very good technically, whereas OH is. In the past - this would have meant that OH would have barely concealed his feelings on the matter, but these days, its not so much an issue. Boredom at work is though, because hes basically playing tiddlywinks all day compared to what hes capable of doing. So more than worrying about attitude - I would say Noobie - that you might want to bear that in mind.

Other than that - I hope this tale helps you in the future. OH's is much more pleasant now that hes not fixated on being "smart". Reading books wont get you shunned (unless you have a bigger library than me - in which case im not inviting you for coffee :laugh ), but telling people you are smart might just have that effect.

I hope that helps

[Oregonkiwi]

Just how bad IS tall poppy syndrome?

What a lot of great posts. :nice1
To add to my previous one - as Avalon pointed out, the term Tall Poppy Syndrome is really only used by or about celebrities or public figures.
I'd sum up the general kiwi attitude towards brainy people as, No one likes a show off.

[StevieD]

Don't remember ever being asked my IQ in an interview...

Just be yourself, but like anywhere, if you go about bragging, be prepared to be taken down a peg or two if you do! :)

[Bergita]

Had to respond to this! When I was about 13, first year in high school, my history teacher felt I wasn't living up to my potential, ie, not attending enough school. So she told me that I had the highest IQ in my class.

Of course I went home and rubbed it in my sister's face, and I'm ashamed to admit I may have mentioned it at school a few times.... As you can imagine, my popularity hit an all-time low. I don't know how or why I stopped, I suppose (I hope) I grew up.

My point is, though, that everything I have and treasure now has absolutely nothing to do with my IQ. What I look most forward to every day is the time I spend with my husband and daughter, having a home, being peaceful. I agree with what most people have said here, IQ is meaningless without EQ - it's fun to be able to think, but it's a gift to be able to love.

[StevieD]

Isn't that a lovely saying - nice that one Bergita

[zardell]

- it's fun to be able to think, but it's a gift to be able to love.


Well said Bergita.

Thats a wonderful sentiment.

Julie

xx

[K&CS]

Avalon, my brother used to be like you describe your hubby. He's got a maths degree from Cambridge and I think the whole oxbridge mentality (apologies to any oxbridge graduates out there!) really encourages that attitude. They do believe they are far superior to everyone else and that the world owes them a living. He wouldn't even consort with people who went to 'ordinary' universities - he and all his friends were very scathing about Durham and Bristol graduates as they were well known as being 'Oxbridge rejects' (his words; not mine). It's so true - very intelligent but no common sense. He gets lost in his own back garden (and it isn't that big!).

Thankfully, his down to earth no nonsense Yorkshire wife knocked all that out of him. I do think this sort of behaviour is actively encouraged in some professions in the UK though. I don't know what you do for a living, Noobie - I guess that will play a big part in how your 'high intelligence' goes down.

Like others, I always thought the 'tall poppy syndrome' applied to celebs in the tabloids!

[Howie]

Just to avoid confusion: This is Chris, not Susan. We both use this login.

I am very smart. Many of you will have just labelled me as arrogant because I said that. Perhaps I am arrogant, but not because I know that I'm smart. I have recently had the opportunity to meet a lot of smart people, and I feel that I've learned something about them in the process. I've just finished a PhD in aerospace engineering from Princeton University in the states. It's one of the better schools there, and the students there are very smart, as is the faculty. I've also spent a bit of time at scientific conferences and at NASA, and there are a lot of smart people there too. I've learned two things about being smart from these experiences.

First of all, intelligence is more like beauty than height. Everyone can agree on who is tallest because it has only one dimension. Beauty is different. You can generally lump people into "ugly", "average", and "beautiful". Beyond that, however, gradations become difficult. It is meaningless to ask which of a group of beautiful women is most beautiful because they are all just different and beautiful in their own way. Five men will have six opinions on which they think to be the most beautiful.

I think I can fairly say that the average Princeton graduate student is smarter than the average rugby player (to randomly pick a group to offend), though there will certainly be some exceptions to that generalization. However, my classmates were very difficult to rank amongst themselves, in general. An IQ test would have been meaningless. Some were fantastic at remembering details and procedures and fitting them together, some were math whizes, some fantastic problem solvers or designers. Some could work for months on a tiny problem, others wouldn't last five minutes. Gradations like IQ are meaningless in such a setting.

Second, intelligence is only one one facet of a human being. I am probably smarter than many of the people I meet walking down the street, but that doesn't make me better as an overall human being. I'm quite useless at a lot of things that other people aren't useless at. For example, I'm quite moody. I let my emotions control me far more than I should. This sometimes limits what I achieve in life and how I affect the people around me. I am also sometimes far too blunt when I talk to other people. I can come off as arrogant and dismissive, even though I really don't feel that way. So am I somehow better than somebody who isn't quite as smart as I am? No. I'm probably better at solving an engineering problem, but that's only one aspect of what makes a good human being. Some might even claim it's not the most important aspect.

To come back to the topic of this thread, I'm smart and sometimes blunt enough to sound arrogant, so I guess I'm the classic potential tall poppy. I've only been here about 5 months, but I really haven't noticed any problems. Having said that, I'm intentionally vague about my schooling, usually just saying that I went back to school in the states to change careers, and I've put a real effort in not to come off as a know-it-all. I do slip on occasion, though, and haven't been slammed too hard for it yet. Time will tell, I suppose.

[Avalon]

Just to avoid confusion: This is Chris, not Susan. We both use this login.

I am very smart. Many of you will have just labelled me as arrogant because I said that. .

Just to avoid confusion (cos I dont know who you are reffering to here) - for my money - saying you are smart does not make you arrogrant . Being arrogant about being smart makes you arrogant. :)

A lot of your post comes across as very abrasive and confrontational though and im not really sure I see where the need for that was. Was it meant to be? Its often hard to know on forums. We are trying to answer a query in the best way we know how. I dont think anyone here is trying to insult clever people.

In fact most people on here seem highly intellegent beings anyway - so all in all - any chance we could stop the "im really smart" stuff anyway. Youre in good company here - we are all pretty smart :)

(edited to say: on the other hand - if Im one of the smart ones - when do I get to learn how to type fast and have proper spelling :wah )

[Lupin]

I didn't find much of that post either confrontational or abrasive (after the first paragraph), so bit confused. Thought it was quite interesting and if I can remember correctly, quite on topic for the thread; a smart person from the US describes how despite being smart and knowing it, he has managed not to fall foul of tall poppy syndrone (I'd never heard of this before!).

If there's something I find slightly uncomfortable about the tone of the post, I suspect that's just a cultural difference between Chris, the writer and I, the reader, but neither my EI and IQ are sky-high, so maybe I missed something :laugh

[auskiwi]

I have been reading this thread for a couple of days now and resisting posting any kind of response. However after the "I am very smart" post I couldn't resist any longer.

It is interesting to me that you begin your post stating your intellect level and then proceed to try to convince your audience that you genuinely believe that intellect is only "one facet of a human being".

I am a kiwi who has lived in the U.S for the last ten years and have spent far too many of those ten years dealing with people who are insanely caught up with who has the best, who is the smartest, who is the prettiest etc, etc. I am returning to NZ in December with the desire to live a far less competititve and sincere existence and to teach my children that people are people and how we treat each other and love one another is so much more important.

We could do a poll here to determine if in fact you were the most highly educated among us, and you just may "win"...but at the end of the day it would only be to benefit you as I would guess to most of us the results would be irrelevant.

And as for your comparison between Princeton graduates and rugby players-being "smart" doesn't make you kinder, more fun to be around or more sincere. I know which qualities I look for in a friend.

Amy.

[Diny]

In my opinion being ultra intelligent is no excuse for being blunt and abrasive. It's all to do with manners.

I'm not 'aiming' this at anybody in particular but automatically presuming others think you are arrogant for being very intelligent, is, in itself, arrogant.

Good thread, interesting reading.

Diny

[Park City Partner]

Whoa, let's everyone take a breath.

I know Chris and he is not arrogant and yes he is REALLY smart...though very low key about it. He is Canadian but that's a whole different issue... :nice1

I think Chris was just trying to address the original post in an honest way using his personal situation as a reference. Tone is always quite hard to interpret in the written word. Chris' degree is from one of the most pretigious (and I think currently ranked #1) universities in the US and in a highly competitive area. When I first met Chris I must say he was very vague about where he studied etc and didn't flaunt it. I had to push to get the info out of him.

Again, I just think tone is hard to hear here....Now shall we address the whole Canadian thing now? :laugh

[Howie]

Wow, I certainly seem to have sparked some controversy. It was certainly not my intent to be abrasive, and I apologize if anyone found my post to be offensive in any way.

...

It is interesting to me that you begin your post stating your intellect level and then proceed to try to convince your audience that you genuinely believe that intellect is only "one facet of a human being".

Well, to be fair, it is a thread about intelligence and how it is received in NZ. At least, that's what many of the posts have been about. A number of posts discussed IQ and what it means and whether it's important. If it had been a thread about people with brown eyes being hated in NZ, I would have started with the statement that I have brown eyes, then said that I thought that was only one facet of who I was and ended with a comment that I haven't had any problems with having brown eyes in NZ (which I haven't, by the way).

I am a kiwi who has lived in the U.S for the last ten years and have spent far too many of those ten years dealing with people who are insanely caught up with who has the best, who is the smartest, who is the prettiest etc, etc. I am returning to NZ in December with the desire to live a far less competititve and sincere existence and to teach my children that people are people and how we treat each other and love one another is so much more important.

I couldn't agree more.

We could do a poll here to determine if in fact you were the most highly educated among us, and you just may "win"...but at the end of the day it would only be to benefit you as I would guess to most of us the results would be irrelevant.

The results would be irrelevent to me, too. On a side point, I believe that the correlation between education level and intelligence is likely poor at best. There are plenty of high school drop-outs who are smarter than plenty of professors. I brought up Princeton not as proof of my intelligence or to brag about my education, but because it was the place that I rubbed shoulders with a lot of smart people. I had made some observations about intelligence while at Princeton that I thought fit well with the thread, and I thought that it was important to specify where and how I made these observations.

I'm sorry if it came across as bragging, that wasn't my intention. That's why when I tell people where I just moved from I say that "I was at school in the states." If they ask where, I say, "In New Jersey." They have to push pretty hard to get the PhD at Princeton thing out of me until I know them better because I'm a bit afraid I'll sound like I'm bragging if I come out with it right up front.

And as for your comparison between Princeton graduates and rugby players-being "smart" doesn't make you kinder, more fun to be around or more sincere. I know which qualities I look for in a friend.

Amy.

That was the very point I was trying to make in the latter part of my post. I was really trying to address two separate issues. The first was a comment about whether the level of intelligence can meaningfully be measured the same way that height can, or whether there are also many "flavours" of intelligence that make more than a very coarse gradation impossible. The second point was that intelligence is only one of many things that makes up a person and the fact that one is skilled at advanced scientific analysis doesn't make you a better person. At no point did I say that Princeton graduates made better friends than rugby players. If anything, the reverse is probably true.

Chris

[Avalon]

I didn't find much of that post either confrontational or abrasive (after the first paragraph), so bit confused.

Thats fine - we are all different with accompanying difference on how we percieve things - particularly over the internet.

And I spend most days being confused about whats on this forum :D

[jdbob]

Wow, I certainly seem to have sparked some controversy. It was certainly not my intent to be abrasive, and I apologize if anyone found my post to be offensive in any way.


Honesty is something to be used with restraint here :nice1

[Diny]

Thats fine - we are all different with accompanying difference on how we percieve things - particularly over the internet.

And I spend most days being confused about whats on this forum :D


This is very true.

I just think that having concerns how you will be received due to your intelligence level is abit odd. I make friends based on how that person is as a person - not how intelligent they are.

Maybe it's because I'm not the brightest button in the box that makes me find the whole idea of discussing ones intelligence abit crass.

I'm sure there would be some very heated comments if I started a thread stating that I was worried how I would 'get on' in NZ because I'm financially well off.

It just isn't the done thing to discuss such matters.

But saying that I've thoroughly enjoyed the posts on this thread, I can see the discussion from all sides and I too whole heartidly agree that words on a screen can (and often do) come across totally wrong.

Diny

[sweetpea]

Interesting thread. It's weird, because at uni here there is a fair amount of one-upsmanship among undergrads, and things seem to be quite competitive. That could just be a pre-vet/vet thing, but I've seen it amongst other students too. I've never run across so many "What'd you get on the test?" conversations. This may have something to do with the grading system, because once you get the minimum needed to pass, your grade is based on a strict curve and what score everyone else gets does affect you. I had read about Tall Poppy Syndrome before getting here, so this aspect of Kiwi student life surprised me.

Anyway, add me to the ranks of people who think everyone has their unique contribution to make, and IQ measures only a small set of a person's strengths.

[Avalon]

Honesty is something to be used with restraint here :nice1

See - totally confused (again) :confused: Happens all the time. :)

Well - id rather people didnt tell porkies - I kinda rely on people's actual opinions.

[jo-and-jeff]

I'm fairly intelligent, but I'm certainly smart enough to recognize that a lot of other people are smarter than me in any number of ways. And I have to say, that of the people I have known who complained that they were treated badly or ostracized in the workplace because they were smart, they were in fact treated that way because they were pompous and tried to lord their intelligence over other people. If you have a reasonably humble attitude, go in and do your job well, try to get along with and respect your co-workers, and don't fixate on trying to show up all of your co-workers, "Tall Poppy Syndrome" won't be an issue.

[auskiwi]

See - totally confused (again) :confused: Happens all the time. :)

Well - id rather people didnt tell porkies - I kinda rely on people's actual opinions.

Avalon,
I agree 100%. I am notorious for speaking my mind (and occasionally wishing I didn't!). I just wish that people would be honest with each other so that when they shared their opinion with you you could rely on it being the truth!

Imagine if we were all confident enough to speak our minds and handle it when others spoke theirs. What a better world we would live in if we always spoke from the heart.


Amy.

[Going2NZ]

My thoughts on the original topic and the tangent it has generated.

First, on the tangent I would say that all the people on this forum are of above average intelligence however you choose to measure it. Think about it:
1. we've all been smart enough to objectively look at where we live (or lived) and see the limitations others don't
2. we've all decided to do something about it by moving someplace else that meets our needs better rather than staying and whining about "if only" twenty years from now
3. we wouldn't be browsing and reading and posting on this forum if we made stupid, thoughtless, uninformed decisions - we're all researching, asking, exploring the possibilities
4. we are either altruistic, compassionate or both because we share our experiences (good and bad) with other people to help them
5. we recognize that even those people who change their minds before, during or after moving to NZ are just as brave as we are, they just know its not the fit that they hoped for
6. look at how many forumites are Senior Members (Smiler, Avalon, Veronica, etc) and give advice and encouragement to the rest of us

While I don't agree with all the posts I read, I count on this group to make me think from a perspective that is not my own and walk away smarter for it. IQ, EQ, common sense, whatever you want to judge someone's "intelligence" by, seems to me getting all riled up about someone's attempt to share his experience honestly isn't the smart thing to do. I for one value the honest opinions and creating an atmosphere where people hesitate to share for fear of offending someone is not something I support. You don't have to agree with everyone but a good debate is preferable to putting someone on the defensive.

Second, on the original topic of tall poppy syndrome, I think jo-and-jeff hit it on the head by saying that respect is the key. Anyone, anywhere who walks in the door and starts treating people as less important or intelligent through their own arrogance is an idiot no matter what their IQ. You have to treat people with respect and that includes respecting what they know no matter how they learned it (degree, life lessons, etc) and respecting that they made choices different from yours (full time mom, going to uni, work experience) based on their values not yours.

I know this is a bit of a soap box but I guess for me it comes down to this: if you are concerned that you may come off as a tall poppy, try to honestly figure out why and see if you can adjust. You are already going to need to adapt to a brand new culture, maybe this is the opportunity to decide who you want to be and what kind of life you want. If you are happy the way you are, you may get the same responses here. If you would like to have a different life, here's your chance. What's the point in moving to NZ only to re-create the life/person/lifestyle you have now? Changing your geography isn't going to challange you as a person, changing your life is. For me, its been the best thing I've ever done.

[Avalon]

Going2NZ

That is a brilliant post :nice1

[zardell]

Excellent post, Going2NZ.

Well said......... :nice1

Julie

xx

[Nienke]

Yep! Well said! :nice1

[Lupin]

Ah, well that just proves how different we all are....

1. we've all been smart enough to objectively look at where we live (or lived) and see the limitations others don't

I couldn't disagree with that more. I know plenty of smart people who are quite happy with where they live...they see the limitations but they see the positives too and are more concerned with other aspects of their lives than those that prompted me to consider emigrating. I suspect I'll find plenty of limitations to my new life in NZ and meet plenty of NZers emigrating to the UK! We're all in the fortunate position to be able to do it. I consider emigrating to NZ from the UK a very priviledged position to be in.

Liked the rest of the post though :)

[Diny]

Ah, well that just proves how different we all are....



I couldn't disagree with that more. I know plenty of smart people who are quite happy with where they live...they see the limitations but they see the positives too and are more concerned with other aspects of their lives than those that prompted me to consider emigrating. I suspect I'll find plenty of limitations to my new life in NZ and meet plenty of NZers emigrating to the UK! We're all in the fortunate position to be able to do it. I consider emigrating to NZ from the UK a very priviledged position to be in.

Liked the rest of the post though :)

Well said Lupin ..... whole heartidly agree !!!!

Diny

[Nienke]

Yes, you are absolutely right Lupin. I guess I missed that sentence. :o

[Ant&Eve]

A kiwi friend recently said this to me “Kiwi’s will, on first meeting you, give you a 100% rating. It’s up to you to lose points”. So far after 12 months here I’ve found that to be 100% accurate.

I think it’s probably true of most places. People take you as they find you.

[Avalon]

A kiwi friend recently said this to me “Kiwi’s will, on first meeting you, give you a 100% rating. It’s up to you to lose points”. So far after 12 months here I’ve found that to be 100% accurate.

I think it’s probably true of most places. People take you as they find you.
Wow - never heard that - but its sounds really good. That would be a fantastic approach to adopt when meeting new people. bet I cant do it though :o