[Bubbles]

Hi all
As some of you may be aware from an earlier post a few months back, one of my daughters was having second thoughts about our family move to NZ due to meeting a lad quite out of the blue. ( she has just last month reached the ripe old age of 18yrs )

Well, shortly after booking the flights she told us that she was staying in the UK. She had made plans for rented accom' but was moving out of the area and would have to find work in the new area. She has appro' 2 months rent in her bank account, she can't drive and doesn't like getting up. We explained yet again, that not to do this would be daft and still haven't got a reason for why she wants, or feels she has to slam the door shut on a possible golden oppertunity. All we want is for her to give it a go.

We have PR, with no conditions

Can any of you good folk explain to me in good old plain english.........
If we could get her to come over before her visa expired.
A) Is there any time limit on how long she would have to stay ?
B) Once the visa is stamped and she's been and gone. How long theoretically, would she have to get her a*se back to NZ to keep that precious visa rolling, once her money runs out and she gets very bored of being a grown up !!!

TIA

John

PS. I will update you all if she changes her mind. Lets hope so, eh.

[jubjub]

A) I dont think so, once you arrive, its stamped, thats that

B) as far as I know its two years max that she has to get back before the rrv expires. But the disadvantage of that is that if she arrives back at the end of those two yeats, the chances of getting another one are not that great, as she has shown no commitment to the country, but as she is a dependant, then maybe they would be more understanding?

I may have this all wrong, someone correct me if I am...

[smitjo]

Hi Bubbles,

Well we have decided to stay on for another 18 months in the UK to save a little more money etc. Our PR visa expires in October so we are heading over to NZ in October to activate the visa and then return back to the UK. We contacted our case officer before we made any hasty decisions and were told that once our visa had been activated our RRV will last for two years. Which means that once your daughter activates her visa she can come back here for two years (max) however she will not then receive an indefinite RRV after the two years. Our case officer explained that once we return to NZ after 18 months we will probarbly only receive a two week RRV (to visit family) and this will be reviewed every year until we have been living and working in NZ for a while - we can then receive our indefinite RRV in the future! :yes

From our case officer:
"I don't see a problem in doing what you say but you are
right you probably wouldn't qualify for an indefinite RRV immediately.
At each renewal the same conditions are assessed so that if down the track you did meet the indefinite criteria you would get an indefinite renewal."

Hope this helps a little?
Jo

[gil]

Oh John, I do feel for you. Not sure about the timeframes, bit I think you don't have to stay any length of time once your visa is active, i.e. you can actually fly out again on the next flight and you need to returm within 2 years? I would want someone else to confirm that though!
We've recently been through the self same thing with our eldest (turned 18 in May). I sat down with her and went through the following:

Rent (looked both at renting in cheaper and not so nice areas, and also nice and therefore more expensive areas)
Bills (if not included in rent)
Food
Clothing
Spending/socialising money
Savings (yes, really!)
Transport: either buying a car (sha passed her test last month), so repayments, insurance, servicing/maintenance, petrol
or bus/train to and from work, plus bus/train to social events and taxi allowance for getting home at silly times

The long and short of it is, she simply cann't afford it on the sort of job she could get and would soon be in trouble financially. Plus, if she decided to go to college, the time for that would eat into her time available to work, and that would be too much of a strain too.

Instead, she is coming with us but is going to do a bit of a travel/holiday with her mates before we go. (Even though she has just been to Spain, after A-levels!!)

Our daughter isn't renowned for her rational approach to things, but the cold hard maths really shocked her.

Good luck Bubbles, and do keep us posted.

All the best,
Gil

[jubjub]

Found an old thread on this that might help too..

http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6333

[Bubbles]

I sat down with her and went through the following:

Rent (looked both at renting in cheaper and not so nice areas, and also nice and therefore more expensive areas)
Bills (if not included in rent)
Food
Clothing
Spending/socialising money
Savings (yes, really!)
Transport: either buying a car (sha passed her test last month), so repayments, insurance, servicing/maintenance, petrol
or bus/train to and from work, plus bus/train to social events and taxi allowance for getting home at silly times

Yep Gil, we've been through all that too. :(

The long and short of it is, she simply cann't afford it on the sort of job she could get and would soon be in trouble financially. Plus, if she decided to go to college, the time for that would eat into her time available to work, and that would be too much of a strain too.

Yep, exactly the same. Frustrating isn't it. :yes

Instead, she is coming with us but is going to do a bit of a travel/holiday with her mates before we go. (Even though she has just been to Spain, after A-levels!!).

She has a friend in Oz she may want to visit.


Our daughter isn't renowned for her rational approach to things, but the cold hard maths really shocked her.

I can honestly say that my daughter just doesn't seem or want to understand the implications. The limited money she earns goes through her fingers like water and the money she has in her account is her latest paycheque.

Good luck Bubbles, and do keep us posted.

Thanks Gil. Will do

John

[Bubbles]

Cheers Sal :nice1

John

[Debbie]

Bubbles,
BIG HUGS, I can feel you pain and frustration from here.
Teenagers, who'd 'ave 'em
Your daughter can enter NZ get her passport stamped and turn around and leave on the next flight if she should wish. She just has to enter the country to activate her visa.
What Im less definate about is the RRV but my understanding is this.
Her RRV will be up for renewal in 2 yrs, (if it's the same as ours), at which point she will have to show that she has settled in NZ. Our agent explained this to us as showing that we had spent a min of 6mth in the last 12 in NZ and had 'a life in progress' in NZ. My understanding from the agent is that if NZIS had any doubt about the life in progress thing they could offer you another 2yr RRV or (worst case) cancil your visa.

In plain English. Your paid for her ticket, if she can be press-gaged onto the plane and onto NZ soil to activate her visa she could, (when her 'holiday' was over) leave for the UK and try out this new love and the novalty of independance. As long as she was back in NZ within a yr you would be safe. Between a Yr and 18mths I would personally seek clear guidance from NZIS and think about kidnapping her.

Best of luck Debbie

[Bubbles]

Cheers Debbie.
And thankyou Jo


Not sure about the press-ganging thing :laugh . To be honest, I wouldn't want to drag her screaming and kicking, it may have an adverse effect on the rest of the bubbles gang who want this journey to happen. :yes

John

:cheers

[Debbie]

I know what you mean, but in the world of teenagers she may be willing to come over for a trial 'holiday' which would at least activate her visa.
Have you looked into the cost implication of making her ticket an open return? or preferably buying a two way ticket for her in NZ should she actually want to return to the UK once she is in NZ.

I do very faintly remember being a similar age to your daughter and leaving home. The only words I can remember by mum & dad saying, dispite there being weeks of disagreement and their displeasure about my plan, are
"here is a front door key and the means to get home, you are always welcome". In my case the means to get home was a mobile phone and I was staying in the same county as them but I hope it helps.
Debbie

[gil]

Debbie,
I have to admit to being quite heavy-handed about this with our eldest after going through the numbers with her, as she has something of a good-sized inheritance behind her and was trying to say she'd use that, but I did kind of resort to the press-ganging approach :o, or is it "mother knows best"? Probably the same thing in the end and not something I feel particularly proud of. BUT it has had the desired effect and she's coming with us. She is still clinging to the idea that she can leave NZ at any time though. The thing is, I feel certain she'll love it once we arrive and she can do the independent thang over there, where I'm within reaching distance.
Another factor that wieghed with her was that our 15 year-old went hysterical at the prospect of being dragged across the other side of the world and simultaneously being "betrayed" by her elder sister. They are very close and that also made her think.

John,
It sounds as if you have reasonably done everything you can, so, worst case scenario, would you be prepared to leave her behind? Could you make it a condition that she has to have the airfare saved and available to fly you home in an emergency, or her out to you? Or is this just a young adult flexing their muscles and she'll come in the end?

Sending you all good vibes and hugs,
Gil

[Diny]

John - just read through all the posts here ..... I'm genuinely sorry to hear about the situation with your daughter. There's nothing more I can add regarding info on the RRV - it's all been said.


One thing I can say is this, when I was 18 I was totally convinced that my boyfriend was for life .... nobody would have convinced me otherwise. By the time I was 18 and 4 months I would have had difficulty remembering his name !!!!!

We've all been there, we all think that we have the 'only true love' and that our parents are talking out of holes in their nether regions ... ha ! what do parents know anyway. Then guess what .... I found that life stretched out further than the horizon ...... there's been no limits to life since then.

The difficult bit is convincing your daughter of this fact. How to make her understand that this is one of the biggest opportunities to ever come her way and that to miss out on it would be to miss out on so much. I wish I could help. Being an ex-teenage rebel who would say black if my folks said white I'd love the opportunity to point out to her that, at times, 'grown ups' do actually know better.

There's nothing I can do to help ... but if you think of something just ask !!

Diny

[Bubbles]

John,
It sounds as if you have reasonably done everything you can, so, worst case scenario, would you be prepared to leave her behind? Could you make it a condition that she has to have the airfare saved and available to fly you home in an emergency, or her out to you? Or is this just a young adult flexing their muscles and she'll come in the end?

Sending you all good vibes and hugs,
Gil

Gil, on the worst case scenario.
Dear wifey and I have talked this over and over and over and we still keep reaching the same conclusion, YES, we are still going. We've done the reasoning bit and gave her all the info, wise words she needs, I just needed this RRV bit clear in my noggin' so she could be made aware. When Elizabeth first said she had doubts we offered her the options of open or return tickets as a ' carrot ' so to speak. As yet, that hasn't worked :confused: . Maybe as our departure draws even nearer, she may take us up on the offer. As it stands we are on the countdown with 45 days to go, so time is running out fast for her.

We have planned into the emergency budget extra money for additional airfares for my daughter, but that money will stay in our uk account and not hers, as I don't think it would be in there for very long. ( Always a new top, jeans or shoes that are essential, or maybe something as important as rent :uhoh ) If she needs it for a ticket, it will be there. Just as she knows, if she does stay and it all goes pearshaped she will be welcome through our door in NZ. All we want is for her to activate that visa to give her another option in life, not kill it dead before even trying it out for herself.
Who knows, in a couple of years I may be getting on that plane saying NZ isn't for me, but atleast I give it a go.

Watch this space !!! :exit

John

[Bubbles]

There's nothing I can do to help ... but if you think of something just ask !!
Diny

A very big thankyou Diny

John

[Smiler]

John and Mrs Bubbles

Really feeling for you here and I can't add any more than has been said above. Just my experience..............

My son who was 2 years older than your daughter, didn't want to come with us, nothing I could say or do would change his mind.

It's been 10 months now and the heartache for me is still as great. But he seems to be coping better than I thought (and deffo better than me). Ok he lives with his grandparents but still has to pay rent, council tax etc out of his small wage and runs a car and girlfriend.

As I've said before, I brought him up to be dependant, he had to be really, with me working full time and on call 24/7, just to earn enough to feed and house us. Had I been in the Uk, I would have been proud of him branching out but it's very hard being a remote parent.

We too have the money for an emergency ticket for him/us and he had an open ticket as his 21st pressie this year. He hasn't used it yet as he feels we haven't been gone long enough (not sure I should be happy or sad at that :confused: )

I'm sorry I can't give you an easy answer, I just wanted you to know, along with others, that you are not alone.

I hope your daughter works it out for herself and sees that she has two loving parents who want the best for her.

And Debbie, what your parents said about the front door key, made me well up. What a lovely thing to say.

[kiwidebs]

John

I sincerely hope she changes her mind and at least comes for a holiday to activate her visa. This must be so difficult with all the other packing up to leave stuff to do too. (Now I remember why we made the move while the kids were still young enough not to object !!)

Wow, just 45 days to go. Bet it flies by. Let us know how things go. Good luck with it all.

[gotourvisa]

Thanks for the thread. It has really opened up my eyes. I came at the beginning of the year. I left my 22 and 18 year old boys. Both have come out for a visit and got there visas stamped within the year of issue and I thought they now could come back at any time up to the two years of us arriving here. From reading this it doesn't seem to be the case, does anyone know if there is anything I can do. My 22 year old does not want to come, and my 18 year old has just finished his first year at university, so he will not be able to come out for at least three years. Is there any way we can keep there visas open whilst them living in the UK.
We brought our 15 year old daughter with us. She did not want to come but we did not give her an option, and when any argument started it was always you are dragging me around the world, or you have dragged me around the world away from my friends.
She has now been here 5 months and she hasn't mentioned it for two or three months. We said she could go back when she had a job and paid for it herself, but even that seems to have dissapeared. She still talks to her old friends on the computer but she has a lot of new friends she has collected from school.
My 22 year old has ended up with thousands of pounds of overdraught and card charges, and he has decided to stay, so we have decided to let him to find his own way. Which we have said we will have to wait and see. We thought he would have two years to make up his mind. Now I don't no what we will do whether we will have to leave if the boys can not get over here in the future.

[Bubbles]

John
This must be so difficult with all the other packing up to leave stuff to do too.


Hi Debs,
Thats the other thing thats really made Maria and I quite miffed about the situation.
We have already sold the house and had the shippers in to pack us up and store until the end of this month. Not only did Elizabeth sort her things for the packers, who came and went, she also stood by and watched us give away/sell the things to friends and family we would not be taking, knowing she was planning to drop the bomb ie: stay here in the UK. :confused:
If she had come clean with us about the rented flat and her true intentions she could have had all the stuff we were not taking and more to help get her setup if she had only told us how determined she was to stay. At the moment we feel really let down by her and saddened at the way she has gone about this.
She is staying at Maria's parents along with Molly (16) and plans to move to this flat in a week or two. Molly was really cut up about Elizabeths decision and how shes gone about it. Me, Maria and David (13) are at my dads house about 1/2 a mile away.
There will be Maria, Molly, David and myself getting on the plane, but there is still time for Elizabeth to change her mind. I just hope she see's sense and comes along, even if its just to get her visa active and buy her some more time.

Kids, don't you just love them.

John

[Diny]

I've been thinking about this John and I reckon that Elizabeth will dig her heels in and stay. However, I reckon you can give her 3 months tops. At first flatting and the 'grown up' independance it gives her will be a blast - I'm sure most of us can remember our first 'wing spreading' experience.

But reality will soon set in. The bills will come in, she'll realise that boring stuff like electricity, gas, rent, food, petrol, MOT, etc etc has to be paid for before a new pair of jeans, a new mascara or a trip to the pub with her mates.

With the everyday 'hassles' of dealing with all of the above life won't look so rosey, and I'll bet anything that once the sugar and the sparkle has worn off the boyfriend won't be looking too brilliant either.

My kids haven't reached the 'flatting' stage yet - we have all of this to come, but I do have the experience of a very stubborn, rebellious teenager from about 25 years ago. I remember overhearing my dad once saying to mum .....'oh let her do what she likes - give her enough rope she'll end up hanging herself'.

And I did !!!! but thankfully the knot wasn't tied too tight and my parents were standing below ready to catch me (with that 'we told you so' look on their face but the words never left their lips).

Difficult times but I'd like to bet that Elizabeth will be activating that visa - just maybe not at the same time as the rest of you.

Diny

[Bubbles]

Thanks for the kind words Diny.
Our worry is she won't find out how hard life can be trying to make it on your own 'till its too late and she'll miss the deadline to activate her visa, which is October 26th, this year.
I wouldn't mind, but the reason we put off the move for almost a year was so Elizabeth and Molly ( who hasn't got a problem with the move to NZ ) could do their O's and A levels before we left. :(

We shall see what happens over the next few weeks.

Cheers again and don't forget to get that BBQ fired up and a couple of cold ones in the fridge for our arrival. :nice1

John

[Diny]

Ahh .... I was forgetting the time frame. As for the BBQ ..... it's ready and waiting !!

Diny

[Bubbles]

Well, an update.

After a really nice afternoon down the local, having lunch with the family, we finally got the answer we all wanted to hear from Elizabeth. She has agreed to come out and activate the visa. :D As yet, its only for a month but atleast the door to NZ is going to be left open a while longer for her.

Happy and relieved would be an understatement.

John

[Smiler]

Brilliant news John :clap:raebanana:clap

Well done Elizabeth. I hope you enjoy your time in NZ, whatever you decide to do in the future. :nice1

[kiwidebs]

John, I am so thrilled to hear that she's at least agreed to activate her visa. Maybe a month in New Zealand will be enough to convince her to stay?? At least that's one less stress for the moment. Not long to go now :nice1 - you guys counting the days yet?

[Bubbles]

you guys counting the days yet?

Thankyou and yes. We've been counting down since the house was sold.

11 more days at work and 35 till we fly. :nice1

John

[zardell]

What wonderful news........so very pleased for all of you..... :clap

Now you can all look forward to your new life in New Zealand together.

Julie

xx

[Marie P]

Great news Bubbles....... :raebanana

Enjoy your last few weeks :nice1

Marie x

[KD17]

Good news on your daughter coming with you. :yes

I could say "snap" to just about everything you have said there. 2 years ago when we first applied my daughter was all for it (she was 17 then) a short while after our application she changed her mind, for no other reason that it was my dream and not hers and she wanted to stay where she was.

This totally ripped the floor from under my feet to be honest. I wrangled with all this for the longest time, "could I leave without her" - I didn't know if I could to be honest. It has been just her and I since she was 2, so we were (and are) very close.

She found a boyfriend who she moved in with a short while before we left the Ilse of Man and was totally happy with us going to NZ.

Missing the obvious as I do, just a few months ago I mentioned in a conversation to a friend (Melissa was present in the room) that she could come to activate her visa, but didn't need to stay. That was it, the light went on and immediately she said that's what she was doing. Her & her boyfriend were coming over together.

So it was decided then, we leave in October and she comes over in Jan 07 for 3 months to see if she likes it. She would then go back to the UK and return to NZ within 18 months. Which would give her the 6 months within 2 years residency. Decision made :confused:

I had my first taste of "leaving her" when I left the Isle of Man 6 weeks ago, which was very hard but I felt like I was opening doors for her to go through later in life if she wanted.

I got the dreaded telephone call at 1am one Monday morning where she was very upset saying she had broke up with her boyfriend and was now coming with us in October :roll emotional rollercoaster back on !!

After all the heartache I had gone, deciding if I could get on that plane to NZ without her, leaving her in the IOM, deciding and accepting that Keith & I would go and pave the way, find our jobs, house etc., It was all a bit of a shock to me and, perhaps selfishly, I now wanted to go to NZ and settle a bit before she same over, so how was I now going to tell her she couldn't come with us ?????

As we still, even today, don't know what airport we're flying into in Oct, where we will be living and have no jobs lined up, it seems the best option to have somehwere for her to come to and would only add to the pressure having another person to consider (my that sounds awfully selfish doesn't it? :o )

I have since flown back to the Isle of Man to collect her and her car with a few belongings and drove her from Liverpool to Norwich (she's not long passed her test and didn't want to motorway drive) where she's staying with friends. Our flat is only 1 bed here and too small for her to stay long term - which she knew before we left the IOM and I had put contigency plans in place - just in case this type of thing happened.

I found the right moment and the strength to tell her that we still need to go first and find a home for her to come to, and she is still planning on coming in January, but boy, do I feel forever guilty................ although I also have mixed feelings thinking of how my dream was ripped from under my feet when she said the first NO, and thereafter repetitive no's at any given time.

so you see I can totally and utterly relate to all those who have teenagers, how excruciating it is on the emotions and how you have to bend (or break at times) to accomdate their ever changing lives.

and now... to be honest ... I want Keith and I to go and enjoy our dream together, for a little while.

K&D

[gil]

John, I am so pleased to hear your news!! Enjoy the trip and the month together,
Lots of love
Gil
x