[kamus]

I keep seeing ads for Job Finding services and commercial Immingration services and the claims are tanatalising: :"we guarantee we will find you a job or your money back" etc.
Does anyone have experiences good or bad with either type of agency.

My wife and I are tempted to use them as we have peculiar qualifications: i.e. my wife is a certified teacher of the Alexander Technique and also an experienced violinist and violin teacher and I am a experienced composer of Film Music (I've done feature films and network specials in the US and I also play with the National Symphony). Problem is that although I think New Zealand could benefit from our skills and experience we don't have official credentials such as college degrees in these subjects- like a lot of musicians we recieved our training, which is extensive in both our cases, from years of private study with top teachers.

In a nutshell, we are highly skilled professionals and make a very good living in the US but we don't have the official accreditation that NZ immigration seems to require- hence the consideration of these services.

The New Zealand Immigration website has identified the Film industry as one of their "desirable clusters" so it seems that there would be work for an experienced composer. A job offer might be another story for if the Film Industry in NZ is anything like the US, the composers work as contractors.

I'm suspicious about some of these claims-on the other hand, I think we need help convincing New Zealand that we would be an asset to the cultural life of the country.

Any advice from anyone out there would be greatly appreciated. :angel

David and Cynthia

[veronica]

The only way you will find out as it is such a specialised field, is to contact some of the potential employers, either by email, phone or in person, to see what they think.

[karltsmith]

In such a situation and with such a background I would advise you to look at getting your visa via the talent route! ;)

Check out the NZIS website!
:hopeso
Karl :nice1

[kamus]

Well you think that would make sense -but NZ has onerous requirements for that field: International Recognition-not sure I can claim that though my CDs have sold abroad and I've played for the Royal Ballet.
But the tough one is sponsorship- you must get a Government recognized group to sponsor you, provide income and accomodations for you and your family for two years with a promise to pay all expenses to the crown if something goes awry.
I don't know anyone who would take that deal!
It looks like I'll have to go the entrpreneur route.

I'm still hoping someone will reply about the potential use of job-finding services and/or immigration services. We've been told that Malcolm Pacific is recommended for Immigration stuff but I don't know...

-Dave

[Raeven]

Hi, Dave,

There's an extremely knowledgeable American named Rich Adams who gives generously to this forum.. he successfully used Malcom Pacific in his quest for migration, and I know he has posted in the old forum on the subject. My suggestion to you is to do a search of his posts in the old forum and read what you can there; if you still have questions, I'm certain he'd be happy to respond to a PM.

If you do write to him, could you please let him know we miss him and are having withdrawal symptoms waiting for his next installment on migrant life? He's a terrific guy and one of the best American resources the forum has. He's been strangely silent these past few weeks.. I'm chalking it up to too much to do getting settled in his new life!!

All the best, Rae

[Mildred]

Hi, I am new to the group.

My husband and I went to an agency in London several months ago after filling in all out personal information. The representative their was pretty useless. Wanted to speak more about himself and being interested in rowing than anything else. Then said as he had just come back off holiday he hadn't had time to properly look into my husband's occupation choices but he would get back to us. Had to keep chasing him up but to date he still has not given us an answer.

As I have a medical condition he advised I have a medical upfront before putting in our application and said the results of this should be known in a month. Again i spent a lot of money having this done and still have no response.

All in all have wasted over £300 and still no answers. I am hoping to visit the NZ Expo in London and know the company will be there. If I have not had any satisfaction by October I will be standing in front of their displays tellilng people to save their money

[veronica]

If you are having that sort of difficulty it is only fair to name the company and the person you are dealing with to avoid others going to them.

[herseymusic]

Kamus,

Nice to hear from more music types interested in coming to Aotearoa. Unfortunately for us prospective immigrants, this country is bursting with muso's (as musicians are known here). That said, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra hires plenty of Americans, and the New Zealand String Quartet is 3/4 American. Unfortunately, the 'part-time' nature of music careers means we can't always get a 'full-time' job offer from a single employer.

Check www.thebigidea.co.nz for NZ Arts Industry jobs.

Options:

1) come over and audition for the NZSO, the Auckland Philharmonic, or Wellington Sinfonia - admittedly a tough route.

2) get a job offer in the music department at a university...Auckland, Waikato, Victoria (wellington), and Canturbury are all accredited to hire foreigners (less hassle with work permits). Next year, the music schools at Victoria and Massey Universities will combine to form a New Zealand School of Music in Wellington. Surely jobs to be had then.

3) Many larger city councils have arts positions, and a few are accredited

Unfortunately, that's about it. Contrary to popular belief, the film work is sparse at best, but there might be some TV work in Auckland. You'd have to get in touch with a firm that does sountracks and could hire you (advertising agencies or TVNZ?). Strangely, Music and Performing arts are listed as a growth category in the EOI forms (bonus points).

Also note that you CANNOT get a work visa as a private contractor - you have to have a single employer who is sponsoring you with at least 30 hours of work per week.

Once you're here, you're made. The best route might be to secure a job offer in another field and switch back to music after arrival. Since finishing university, I've been an itinerant music teacher/sound engineer/musician in Wellington, and the work abounds! Unfortunately, I can't get a work permit because it's all part-time. So I guess I'll have to have a regular job for now.

And interestingly, an Alexander Technique teacher was on the cover of the Jobs section of Wellington's Dominion Post last week!


Good luck!
[/url]

[Do B Brief]

Well my input to this is that our house is on the market and as soon as it sells we're going over as a visitor and using one of these agencies that guarantee a job - a job that I accept that is.

You could try going over and look for a job but how much will it cost whilst no money is coming in? Easy just to use one of the agencies.

I have faith in them and if it all goes belly up then it's a hell of a holiday for the wife and kids, but what if it works out?

You've got to make that decision. Once there with the necessary skills, you shouldn't have a problem.

Good luck. :nice1

[kamus]

Kamus,

Nice to hear from more music types interested in coming to Aotearoa. Unfortunately for us prospective immigrants, this country is bursting with muso's (as musicians are known here). That said, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra hires plenty of Americans, and the New Zealand String Quartet is 3/4 American. Unfortunately, the 'part-time' nature of music careers means we can't always get a 'full-time' job offer from a single employer.

Check www.thebigidea.co.nz for NZ Arts Industry jobs.

<snip>

Good luck!
[/url]

Thanks so much for a most informative reply. The picture you paint is not encouraging one for us, I'm afraid. NZ couldn't make it harder for a musician. Not to just blow my own horn but in the US, I'm nationally known- I've gotten international press for my compositions, I make a very good living writing for TV, my wife is a top level professional violinist and teacher and yet apparently NZIS couldn't be less interested.

I understand the need to control immigration to such a small country, but the barriers NZ has erected must keep any number of talented people out of the running because those appalicants don't fit into the rigid categories in place. And that's a loss for NZ- and us too. We're about ready to call it quits for NZ -Canada is happy to have us, so we may do that instead.

Sorry for the bitter note-I really just wanted to thank you for taking the time to help.

-Dave

[veronica]

Just out of curiousity, did you try the talent visa route.

[herseymusic]

Kamus -

Sorry to be discouraging, as I love NZ more than life itself. I may be slightly different to many prospective American immigrants, as I put living in NZ before career...I'll do anything to live here. The NZ music scene is amazing, it's just very hard to migrate as a musician. I don't know if Immigration thinks we're going to come over and kick all of the Kiwi musos out of their jobs, or what. It seems like NZIS is dead set against letting migrants be self-employed, which is a major part of being a working musician and composer. A major part of being a writer or artist as well. Things have certainly changed since Hundertwasser migrated from Austria to the Bay of Islands (1970s) and put NZ on the modern art map.

I think the NZIS definition of "skilled" leaves a lot to be desired.

And yes, without a music degree, it would be hard to find a placement or fellowship with an NZ university, which would be the best shot for a job offer.

You know, your wife may have a good shot at the NZSO or APO as a top level violinist in the US. They hire based on talent rather than degree. I realize it's an expensive trip to come and audition, but it could also be a great vacation!

I have to say, New Zealand is the most inspiring place I have ever been, and the creativity seems to flow out of the land, directly into the people. Audiences are extremely supportive and enthousiastic, and there are thousands and thousands of potential music students. If you could make do with finding another way to please NZIS, you could at least find plenty of teaching and playing work. Unfortunately, there's just not that much TV to write for, as the industry is very small.

Those artists who do migrate here have become very successful and nationally known. It's just the whole "full-time job offer" thing that's the problem.

I hope that things work out for you. I know a composer who lives in Vancouver (www.davekoltai.com), but he isn't a permanent migrant yet. And Montreal has a fantastic music scene. But alas, neither can hold a candle to New Zealand as a place to live. For me at least.

Good luck and best wishes!

[herseymusic]

Hey Kamus, I just had a thought.

My partner is an administrator at the Victoria University School of Music, and she is in regular contact with members of the NZ Symphony Orchestra. I'll ask her to have one of the American players email you some info on the process of getting a talent visa. It might take a week or so, but I'd be very interested to find out the protocol as well!

I also just checked out your resume online, and with all those credentials you could certainly apply for a fellowship with one of the Universities. These are usually only for one year, but that's a lot of points on the EOI!

Also, keep in mind, coming here with permanent residency is only one of several ways to live and work in NZ.


Cheers,
Tyler

[kamus]

Tyler,
Thanks so much for your active interest! We're not giving up just yet, though we alternate periods of hope with despair.

Like you, I think that NZ is the place to be- Canada is a distant second.

We're willing to take a major hit in income to be there as quality of life concerns are now more important than making the big bucks. We probably wouldn't be too badly off as our house in the US is almost paid for and we could just buy a decent place in NZ outright. We also have significant savings that would easily tide us over any establishment phase. The only hard part seems to be getting there in the first place. :?

Also, I would be able to continue a good portion of my TV work from the US via FTP and broadband internet but it's difficult to present all of these factors to NZIS in any way that would be convincing to them.

The fellowship idea sounds interesting but I wouldn't know how to begin looking into that.

I thinking of re-investigating the Talent option as a good friend of mine (Art Phillips) is the president of the Australian Guild of Screen Composers. The only problem is that, while his organization is probably recognized by NZ, the actual nominating person has to be a an Oz or NZ resident who has spent at least 3 months within the past 3 years in NZ and he personally doesn't meet that criteria.

Another idea we had: if we post a $24,000 NZ bond to the sponsoring org. then they wouldn't be actually financially have to be at risk. ($24k seems to be the figure that NZ requires to be at risk for the sponsoring group.) So the plan now is to try and find someone/organization through networking who would be willing to help with the sponsorship under those circumstances.

My wife and I are interested in forming a New Music ensemble in NZ as our "contribution to NZ cultural life" as required by NZIS as I'm also a conductor. She is also thinking about starting an Alexander Technique School. We've got a lot of big ideas-just no canvas yet ;)

Lots and lots of hurdles yet to overcome but at least the possibilty is still alive.

If you get any info on auditions we would be very grateful- it would be nice to meet and thank you on the resulting trip to NZ for personally taking the time out to care about our situation.

As far as your own situation- do you have PR in your sights yet? How long have you been there? Where did you arrive from- we're interested in your story as thus far you're the only musician from NZ we've had any contact with.

I thought of making this a PM to you, but then I thought that it might prove marginally interesting to any future musicians who pass this way.

Thanks again for your helpful info.

Dave and Cynthia

:D