[Singel]

I totally agreed with Avalon about putting everything down in writing and balance up the cash flow against the bank statement. I have done this when I was made redundant in March this year and the financial worry start creeping in (don't know when will I get a job, even though I received a good redundancy package). Fortunately I found a job after one month. During the time when I was looking for a job and idling at home, I went through all our expenses one by one (listing each and every items down).

Here are some examples of my costs cutting measures :
1) I could cut down my grocery costs by shopping differently. For example, buy from a fruit & veg shop instead of buying everything from the big supermarket.

2) Review all our insurance and find that we still insured the car for the same amounts as one year ago. We check around for the currect value of our car and got the insured sum reduced.

3) We change the light bulbs into energy saving ones.

Just a sharing....................

[spudulike]

Louise - do you keep accounts? Not on a spreadsheet - but a proper accounting package (i use Quicken).

You have to be disciplined and put everything in (including having a separate cash account set up) and record EVERYTHING you spend. And BALANCE it when the statements come in. Doing that shows you EXACTLY where you are spending money - not just where you think you are, and can show up some really glaring areas where cutbacks can be made with relatively little pain and suffering (I dont belive budgeting has to be painful - otherwise they are as useful as diets which are painful to stick to).

HTH.

Hi Avalon, Thanks for your reply.

Up until now we were doing what we had done in the UK when OH ran a business and using spreadsheets ready to submit to an accountant. But we have both said that an accounts package is the first thing to invest in - we really need to be aware where every cent is going! I will look into the Quicken package this weekend (as well as sorting out family assistance) and hopefully the burden will ease slightly.

Thank you ALL so much for your help and advice.

Louise :nice1

[SharpBlade]

1. How much do you get paid in NZ/hope to get paid
Husband`s wage is 65k, I do casual work for NZ Red Cross and get paid 18$ an hour, which is not much but hours are flexible and if I work weekend or nightclass I don`t have to pay for childcare so it is not too bad.

2. Whats your rent or if mortgage how much is it for and what does it cost.
Up to now, mortgage was 400$/week but we just bought a house and mortgage will be very small

3. How much cash did you bring over or hope to bring over.
20000k

4. Where do you live in NZ or hope to live.
We live in Christchurch, between Beckenham and St Martins, a nice area, plenty of parks, good schools, hills very close.


We also have 4 young kids.
Before coming here, we used to live in Ireland where wages are much higher and we could save good money each month. We have never been big spenders and have always been keeping track of our money (and I mean always. I am not too good at it but my husband is very disciplined. Very.. It can be a pain sometimes but it helps a lot). However, I have found this first period in NZ a bit difficult at times, because of all the budgeting and planning. Christmas was very low key, for instance (not that we would go crazy anyway).It is going to be much easier once we don`t have any rent to pay. When we were looking at buying a house, we were very tempted by the lovely character houses, but we realised we would rather have a plain looking house than a big mortgage, and that s what we did.
We probably wouldn`t have been able to move to NZ if we hadn`t had any savings.
There is an interesting article in The Press today about poverty in NZ.
Cheers, Laura

[Howie]

...From a California perspective at least as a rough guidline I think that if you earn in NZ $'s what you earned in US$'s (on a # basis not converted basis) you should be OK. In LA, we could not have made it on US 50k but I know people who did make it so it is all relative which I guess is what makes the 'how much do I need to earn' question so difficult. For some people it is 150k for others it is 60k you need to determine your own level. NZ has a lot of great things but if you are too worried about just surviving you can't really take advantage of them.

Chris

I think that it is extremely useful to make these comparisons. As you pointed out, Chris, converting the currency is useless unless you're here on holiday. It's also valid to convert any savings you're bringing over, of course, but not the money you actually make when here.

Regarding wage comparisons to the US, I can comment on our experience having lived in New Jersey for 4.5 years before coming here. Everything that follows is without converting, just looking at raw dollar values. I am making about 20-30% less than I would in the US and my wife is making a bit more, so they probably balance out (she works in an area with an extreme shortage, though. I think most wages are less than in the US and Canada).

Cost-wise, however, gas (petrol) is more than two times what it costs in the US, groceries are about 50% more, restaurant food 50-100% more. Books are 3-4 times the cost, renting airplanes is twice as much (though few will need to consider that cost). Used cars are a bit more perhaps ($8k for a 1998 Toyota Corolla with 80,000 km). Electronics are twice as much. Air travel is twice as much. Taxes are higher. The only thing that I can think of that's cheaper is anything medical which is drastically cheaper.

Housing is a tough one to compare because things vary so much from place to place in NZ and the US. We're paying $1500/mo rent for a small, older 3 bedroom house in a nice suburb of Auckland. A comparable house would be about $380k, perhaps, to buy. The interest rate is very high, however, at about 8% (I think). We're paying more like 12% on an unsecured car loan.

On average, I'd say it costs about 50% more to live here (assuming no change in "consumption level") and the wages are less, depending on your industry and experience. I think you'll need to be making considerably more than you do in the US to have the same "buying power." However, this is unlikely to happen. Also, if you manage to save anything and then move back, all your savings will lose 1/3 of their value.

I don't regret moving here, but it's important to understand that you're taking a significant financial hit to do so.

Chris

[Howie]

A very intresting read although it's one of those posts where I wish people could just cut to the chase.
1. How much do you get paid in NZ/hope to get paid
2. Whats your rent or if mortgage how much is it for and what does it cost.
3. How much cash did you bring over or hope to bring over.
4. Where do you live in NZ or hope to live.

I think if we had answers to these 'personal' questions it would help people planning the move get a REAL handle on the cost of living in NZ.

I think you make a really great point. As other have said in this thread, the fact that we're all so shy about what we make means that we never know if we should be demanding more, and it means that potential immigrants can't do a realistic budget to see if they can afford to come over.

As Canadians, Susan and I think it's quite rude to tell anyone how much you make, especially if you make anything above the average. We had a bit of a debate and decided that for the sake of all those trying to make hard decisions about moving here, adding our data to the pot is worth the slightly icky feeling I have right now typing this.

1) I get paid $55k as an aircraft design engineer and Susan gets $80k as a transportation engineer, though she's just cut back her hours so that's dropped a bit.

2) We pay $375/week in rent for a small, older three bedroom house in a nice suburb. We looked at buying, but with 5% down (which we don't have anyways) we'd be paying over $600/week for the same house. Because we're not sure if we'll be in the same house for more than a few years, the costs involved in buying and selling, the high interest rates, and the uncertainty in the market all add up to a decision to rent for now.

3) We spent everything on the move. We had to buy two cars when we got here and needed a loan for the second one.

4) We live in Howick, a nice suburb just to the East of Auckland. We're 20 minutes walk from the beach and 10 minutes from the cute little town centre. It's quite safe and quiet. We could have saved money living elsewhere, but really didn't like the alternatives.

We have no kids. This is enough income for us to feel that we're not struggling financially. We try to be relatively frugal, but we do buy frozen dinners at the supermarket and eat out (very) occasionally. We've recently been down to Queenstown to go skiing and splurged on a jet boat ride and bungy jumping, though we stayed in a backpacker's (airfare was half price because Susan was sent down for work and I came along). I spend $500 /month on aircraft rentals and associated fees and Susan plays ice hockey. We don't have a television and we don't drink alcohol, both of which save us quite a bit of money. At the end of the month we have a couple hundred dollars to put towards paying the car loan off a bit faster.

I hope this is useful to people. I've just re-read it and almost deleted it all. Why is it that these details are considered so private and embarrassing? Perhaps it's partly because this thread is more about those people who are struggling and we're not struggling. I hope it's not inappropriate or offensive for me to post this here. Certainly if we had kids we'd have to cut back on our expenses a lot. I have nothing but respect for those who raise multiple kids on half what we're making.

Chris

[mtgillick]

is this per week?




Smiler - I've estimated our monthly outgoings. We are not struggling as such and I am full aware that there are things we could do without if we had to but I don't think we live particularly excessive lives
Mobile 40
Broadband 45
Sky 62
Train 230
Gas 200 (Water, Fire and now Central Heating !!)
Electric 225
Rates 120
Food shopping/nappies, etc 450-650
Lunch/Coffees 125 (1 worker)
Booze 75
Petrol 175
Bins 10
Phone 50
Car insurance/WOF/Tax 110 (2 cars)
House insurance 50
Cash withdraws 150-250
1 * Kindy 30

I've excluded mortgage payments. This is for a family of 2 adults and 2 young kids (1 at Kindy), and one of us working. I would hope the electric would come down to closer to 100-150 and Gas to 100 when winter is out.

[able]

is this per week?

No the post you have quoted says "Smiler - I've estimated our monthly outgoings."

A big thank you to everyone who has posted their costs. It has been really useful.

[Richard_from_Long Beach]

From the perspective of a single renter from the U.S. who went to live in NZ for a while:

Rent, your major expense, is cheaper, sometimes far cheaper, when compared to renting in a desirable city in the U.S.

I disagree that groceries/eating out are 50%-100% more expensive. I found it on a par with US food prices, sometimes a little cheaper, sometimes a little more expensive.

Energy prices--your heat, power, fuel--are almost twice as expensive as in the U.S.

Internet, telephone, cable TV, etc., only slightly more expensive.

Furnishings, electronics, books, clothes, or anything you need to buy: WAY more expensive.

Medical services: substantially cheaper.

I was living off US dollars when I was there, so I was doing great. I am considering pursuing a job in NZ in my line of work (editorial/publishing) that pays about half of what I could earn in the U.S. doing the same job, around NZ$40,000, and I'm afraid that would just cover day-to-day expenses, no cushion for surprises, no savings.

[Lupin]

A thoroughly depressing thread for me peeps.

DH is a newly qualified nurse and will earn $40K + antisocial hours (usually about 15 % more). I've worked out that after family assistance this leaves us with approx $40K. We're bringing about £8K plus DH parents have recently offered us £30K as a house deposit (very generous, very kind).

I plan on training to be a primary teacher in NZ starting January 2008 and we were thinking about interest only mortgage until I qualify to enable us to buy somewhere that we couldn't afford until I qualify, but I've struggled to get any info about interest-only in NZ (can anyone point me in the right direction here?).

We have two children and currently survive well (no credit cards or loans) on about £19K. We don't need any more money on a day to day basis than we already have (obviously it would be nice though) but would like to buy somewhere rural/semi rural, which we reckon we can do where we're moving for about $300K.

I have this terrible feeling that perhaps I've got this all wrong, but I can't seperate this from natural anxiety. :(

[willsken]

A thoroughly depressing thread for me peeps.

I have also been reading this thread with interest. I agree with the above statement. As much as I realise we will survive once we are both working, there is a chance that I won't find work for a while. I was relying on being able to get supply work and from relpys to teaching threads I've seen that this may not be easy.

OH will earn about $45,000 a year to start. He is going to go self employed after a year or so once he gets some NZ work experience. I think we will have a very hard first couple of years in front of us getting sorted. We are lucky that as long as we are willing to live in a smallish house to start with we will be mortgage free.

As much as this will not put me off, it is food for thought. :(

[clg]

Chris (aka howie)

Good posts you got me thinking a bit and I should add some qualifications to my statements. We had a high income in LA and are on an above average single wage here and when my wife goes back to work we will add a second above average wage, so I am coming at this from a biased standpoint.

Still thinking of LA prices (and this applies to other urban centers in California), while some things are expensive here I don't find other things that terrible and that offsets things. For me the really significant cost differerences between LA and Wellington are housing, transport, insurance, and medical. We spend much less on all of those things here. We used to run two cars that each needed to be filled up weekly and replaced often becuase we drove so much, I take the train here. Housing is really a big one for us and helps me overlook that food and other things are higher. Housing in LA is nuts, a US$500k house is going to be tiny, in a dangerous place, or out in the middle of no where or maybe even all of the above. Eating out here is actually not that bad for me, I would say I used to pay in US$ what we pay in NZ$ for a restaurant, but LA is expensive.

Cars, electronics and travel all cost more here but again, housing offsets that for us. While we used to run two nice cars in LA we just run one now. I don't really need to buy many electronic items so that is not that big of a deal. Travel costs more here but with young kids we are somewhat limited there anyways for a while. Fiji or OZ are not all that expensive to get to from here ane while flights to the US are not cheap, it is very cheap for us once we arrive!

We have changed our patterns here too, we go to the library (book and toy) instead of buying things, in LA you basically had to buy things but it was much cheaper than here. But then we don't buy those things here...

There are far more free activities here where as you had to pay for everything in LA. Going to park in LA was always a little iffy with homless people, broken glass or masses of people take your pick. Not a problem here! We did not have easy access to a pool in LA but here I can take my daugher to a great indoor pool for $1.

I think all of the posts here illustrate how hard it is to make general statements and answer questions like can I live on $xx a year? It is different for everyone and based on what your expectations are. It is figuring out what those expecations will cost that is the real challenge so do your homework!

To anyone here thinking is this enough I would suggest you be very careful with this and don't rely on what someone else says but work it out for yourself.

Chris

[jess]

Howie -
Certainly it is not inappropriate or offensive to post your details, especially since several people have asked for this information as the only way to really judge cost of living and the cost of moving. I had the same feeling when I posted above, since we aren't struggling either. I almost deleted our post with our annual salary and mortgage, but I think it's got to be more helpful to people planning the move if they can see real figures. So... goood on ya!

CLG -
Great post with LA to Welly details!! And you are right about researching, as much as you can at least, about making the move in your own financial situation.

J

[Georgia USA]

We came over 4 months ago with no debt and with savings from our home sale that allowed us to buy our one car here with cash, put a sizeable downpayment on a house, and have a pad left over to buy some other things like fridge, tv, car ins. etc. with cash.

Just wondering how much will be enough? My husband and I are wanting to move to NZ... and hope to both have jobs earning approx $100K NZ total (I'm a business analyst and he's in the sign business). How much would be enough we wonder? Can you advise on maybe a minimum dollar amount - $20K maybe? Thanks for any advice... and boy am I glad to find this blog!

[jess]

Hi Georgia - The reason I left that one vague (besides chickening out on fronting with details about that aspect of my finances) is that how much you will need in savings sort of depends on what kind of car you'll get and what kind of house you want. We bought a plain inexpensive house and one $12K car with extremely low mileage that we plan to run into the ground. We specifically looked at houses in a range such that we could afford to put enough down to keep the mortgage at $125K for a 15 yr. term. If I'd had $325K in savings I could have looked at a $450K house, but I didn't so we got a much smaller house. (Love our new house though!)

I will say we needed $12K USD to move here from the states, including shipping our household goods, flights and the dog's quarantine.

As far as funds to set you up here in NZ, I would research the cost of the type of car(s) you need and look at housing costs (if you're buying). Then figure out how much of that you hope to pay with cash on arrival and how much you will finance. How much do you hope to have in an emergency fund?

Some people will be alright with financing much of it and some people won't want to come unless they can do a certain percentage in cash. It depends on what you think your earning power will be here and how you like to handle your own finances. There are so many variables.

Hope that's helpful.
J

[Georgia USA]

Thanks Jess... that is helpful. We figure that it does all depend on what sort of lifestyle we expect to have.

If all goes well, we'll have enough to do as you guys did... to buy a single car for cash and maybe search for a house that we can absolutely afford - after we get the jobs though!

It's hard to interview for jobs when we haven't completed the NZIS steps yet! Thanks again for your response...we'll keep researching!

[Ria]

Wonderful, wonderful thread......great informative posts from everybody - all the responses are useful - even those who haven't answered the $64,000 question(s)....but I know I feel the same.

This may sound stupid but one of the reasons I want to move to NZ (and it isn't the only one by any means) is I want to re-evaluate my lifestyle, in the UK no matter how hard I try I don't seem to be able (or maybe brave enough) to do so. My warped logic :D is that I can go to a new country, pick somewhere relatively rural and start from nothing - is that weird or what. Maybe I hope that by starting afresh, I won't make the same mistakes I seem to be doing here. I know many will think that if you can't 'do it right' in one country, then how are you going to manage in another - with no family or friends - but for me - that's just it. There are no expectations, no pre-requisites and so I hope I will be bold and make different choices - ones that don't leave me with financial burdens. Apart from a mortgage which is a long-term debt I can accept - I for one live the 'have now - pay later and later and later' lifestyle. This time I want to say I'm going to save first and buy later - easier said than done I know - but that's the aim.

Sorry to ramble and add nothing to what others have said - but just wanted to post my feelings. We will be coming out with some cash (£40K), so I'm not completely living in cloud-cuckoo land. We can also reverse the hoped-for employment roles if we have to - so everything is flexible......but we'll just have to wait and see. We land Nov 06!

Thanks all for your postings and good luck to everyone. Hopefully a problem shared is a problem halved. :)

Ria

[Howie]

...
To anyone here thinking is this enough I would suggest you be very careful with this and don't rely on what someone else says but work it out for yourself.

Chris

I certainly agree. Unfortunately, it's hard to get it exactly right. The best one can do is estimate and hope for the best. The more information you can gather, the better the estimate, but it's not easy. We'd been here about three months before we really knew what things were going to cost us on a day to day basis.

LA is obviously a lot more expensive than small town New Jersey. I've only lived in one place in the states so that's all I can compare to. I guess that's part of the reason it's so hard for people to get a handle on relative costs of living. It's all so subjective and depends on what you spend your money on and what your history is.

Chris

[Avalon]

This may sound stupid but one of the reasons I want to move to NZ (and it isn't the only one by any means) is I want to re-evaluate my lifestyle, in the UK no matter how hard I try I don't seem to be able (or maybe brave enough) to do so.

My warped logic :D is that I can go to a new country, pick somewhere relatively rural and start from nothing - is that weird or what.

Maybe I hope that by starting afresh, I won't make the same mistakes I seem to be doing here.

There are no expectations, no pre-requisites and so I hope I will be bold and make different choices - ones that don't leave me with financial burdens. Apart from a mortgage which is a long-term debt I can accept - I for one live the 'have now - pay later and later and later' lifestyle. This time I want to say I'm going to save first and buy later - easier said than done I know - but that's the aim.
Ria

I like it!

I have to say that there is a good opportunity in emigrating to do things differently. While in many ways I live the same kind of life - I find that becasue I started over in a new place - ive been able to change the way i do things and look at things. You are out of your comfort zone - and so taking more risks can come easier.


Possibly what I would suggest is that you at least make a start now - before you move- to understand what changes you have to make - especially with finance. Its very hard to go from have now/ pay later to save first. Definately do-able - but id say to spend the next few months planning how to do that in the background.

If it helps - ive set up several "savings goals" in quicken (though yo can do it nayway you like). Each pay day I set aside a certain amount into each goal, and I can dip into that goal when I want to buy something. I actulaly find it gives a huge sence of freedom. If I want something - for a change - I know I have the money. And when we do want something - we always ask the question: "Is it a want or a need?" and then ask "Is it worth what they are asking for it/". You would be amazed at how often we end up NOT buying stuff.

[khhill]

For what its worth: here's our bare-bones grad school budget. 2 adults, no kids (Warning: it's a long detailed post):

Weekly income: $350 from student loans

Weekly rent: $250 for 2 bedroom flat which includes electricity bill. Small flat, but windows are double glazed, great neighborhood(Roslyn), nice garden, pets allowed, and walking distance to University, shops and restaurants.

Weekly Grocery: $100, usually includes one takeaway. This also includes buying $10 Christmas vouchers (bought for $9.50 each) to prepay for Christmas groceries. We adopt our menus based on what's on sale and what's in season. It takes time to plan and devour the advertisements, but I enjoy the challenge to see how low we can get the grocery bill. Fruit and veges always bought from farmers market. Bin Inn great source for bulk items as well.

Basic math shows that this covers the day to day expenses. Savings is tapped into to pay the following:

Petrol: roughly $70-$100 a month. Lower end when weather is nice as we walk to school rather than driving. Note: our car is a gas guzzler :(

SkyTV, Internet, Telephone: $150 a month. This includes Sky Sport, mid-range high speed internet, and basic home telephone line. All long distance calls made for free on Skype.

Vehicle Expenses:
$4,000 car: '97 Mazda Eunos with low KM. Paid in cash, so no loan.
$183 car registration for 12 months
$40 WOF every 4 months

Medical expenses obviously vary by person. I'd encourage anyone on lower income to look into Community Services Card for doctor, dentist, and prescription savings.

Entertainment: There's a lot to be done for free: Beaches, hiking, biking, training to run first half-marathon, 3 months of free movie channels from Sky, free book rentals from University library.

Travel: At times Intercity bus fares are cheper than petrol. For example, current sales: $10 OW between Auckland/Wellington, $10 OW between Christchurch/Picton and all stop stops in between. Accomodation by backpacker or camping. Some Department of conservation campsites are free! We have also stayed at hotel Mother in Law in North Island and hotel Father in Law on West Coast of South Island.

I fully agree with those who have posted regarding Quicken, or MSMoney. I could blow through obsene amounts of money on Lattes and energy drinks without knowng it.

Now that we watch every expense, we will still have savings/investments left for house down payment once we know where we'll be settling after school.

I hope this has been helpful to anyone budgeting.

Cheers!

[Moorf]

There was a huge feature entitled "Hard Up in NZ" in The Press this weekend. Depressing reading. There's a snippet on The Press site

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepress/0,2106,3783938a6009,00.html

[Avalon]

Ok, this is our spending for when we lived in Central Wellington with a single salary of $90k – sorry it’s taken so long – had to find it all.

Figures are per FORTNIGHT (got paid every 2 weeks)

Income: 2406 after tax

Rent: 1080 (2bed apartment CBD)
Leccy: 45
Phone / Sky / Internet: 33 ( Deal as OH worked at Telecom so much of it was free)
Bank fees: 6
Cinema/ Theatre etc: 57
Other events out: 16
Health Ins: 7 (Company cash back scheme)
Southern Cross Health Ins:32 (not actually paid as we didn’t take it out)
Contents Ins: 7
Petrol: 30 (when borrowing a friends car – we didn’t have one – but this is over the 9 months we did this)
Public Transport: 25
Clothes and Shoes: 75
Toiletries etc / Hairdresser: 54
Household stuff: 70
Postage & Stationary: 30 (mostly sending stuff to Mum and dad)
Gifts etc: 40
Magazines & Papers: 10
Medicines: 7
Trips away: 65 (includes joining oh on some work trips which we paid my share only)
FOOD: 529 (Split because it’s a biggun!)
Groceries: 307
Alcohol: 15
Evening out drinks: 9
Lunches out: 30
Dinner out: 37
Coffee out (gulp) 64 (yes – I really CAN drink that much coffee) :D
Snacks and takeaways:25
Breakfast out: 43

Sanity Allowance: 50 each.

Regular Savings:
Christmas: 50
Gym stuff: 50 (in lieu of membership so we could buy equipments for home)
Travel: 100
Misc: Whatever was left over.

Which (if my adding up is correct) comes to 2286 spent. (excludes SC Health ins and doesnt include the savings)

A lot of these items we saved money for in a bill paying savings account, so we always had money when the bills came. Same with travel costs and clothes etc. Sanity allowance included stuff like books and cd’s. Hopefully - this also shows extent to which we catalogued our spending. The more you break it down - the more accurate the picture you can get is - and then the easier it is to find whrre to make cutbacks (that'll be the coffee then :D )

Ill try and do the same for our spending now – as its all different. But that gives an idea of a central Welly lifestyle on a “not too high IT salary”.

[Trigirl]

Thanks Avalon

We're starting soon in Welly on a "not too high IT salary" and that is really useful to check my budget against to see where I might have gone wrong.

Mandy

[willsken]

If it helps - ive set up several "savings goals" in quicken

May seem like a dull question but would software in the UK be any use, as it's not in $? :roll

[jubjub]

If its like MS Money, you can set up accounts in whatever currency you want.. we have a mixture of £ & $ a/c running

[Smiler]

Avalon

Great post!

I think you should set up a 'Forum Finance' column/thread :D

[Al_S]

Ok, this is our spending for when we lived in Central Wellington with a single salary of $90k – sorry it’s taken so long – had to find it all.

Very informative and detailed note. Amazing stuff. Thanks Avalon. Very nice name too , thats where our second home is(Avalon Peninsula in Newfoundland). Cheers,

Al

[clg]

I started going through spreadsheets to figure out about how much we are spending a month on average. This is not as detailed as what Avalon put up but I hope it will still be helpful. I use excel, not quicken. I tend to look not at how much we spend in a given month, but what is our average, some times it is higher than others this gives me a good baseline to see how we are doing. I work our budget on more of an annual basis.

Not included here are housing costs and rates and we have no debt but the rest is included. Savings are not included here. Sorry everything is not itemized but I think this will give you some ideas at least so you can get a sense of what ‘enough to get by’ means for different people.

This is from March to August and the following are included:

Sky with movies and sports
broadband
electricity (using a dryer in winter)
phone
2 cell phones
petrol for one car
an oil change
train pass
kid activities (probably around 75 a week for one 3.5 year old)
clothing purchases not lots but with a kid...
food, eating very well
wine and beer
lunch eaten out 5 days a week
take aways once sometimes twice a week
going to the pub 2-3 times a month with work mates
restaurant once or twice a month
movies on occasion
various cafe stops (more than I would like to admit)
various projects around the house (probably at least 500 over this period)
health/car/house insurance
Central heating for a large house (up to 500 a month in a cold month)
A cord of firewood (note: buy firewood before winter or it will be wet!!!)
One week trip to Lake Taupo, staying at very good quality hotels and eating out some
Various purchases, a printer, dehumidifier, and an espresso machine.
Medical costs
One 300 plumbing visit (don't get me started)
WOF and registration for our car
Whatever else comes up, flowers, gifts little things like that
We had visitors for a few weeks of this time and that always costs more
Savings and housing/rates are not included

During this period we have spent on average about $ 3100 a month on basically everything except housing costs. Some months it was more some less but for March to August that was what our overall average was with those items included in the list during that time period. As you can see, there are one off’s that come up which is why I like a longer budget cycle. Keep in mind the time period was our worst heating cost wise, we get a large tank filled up with heating oil and we now have enough to get us through to next year that is about 3k a year at current pricing. In summer, we spend less on heat and electricity but will spend more on trips around NZ.


Chris

[David with a dream]

Nice post Avalon :clap can you do our home budjet when we return :D

[David with a dream]

Just read the feature ''Hard up in NZ'', thanks for that Morf. I think most of us in the UK could think of estates up and down the country where people live on benefits and often in very poor conditions it's a fact of life in a capitalist society.

[Avalon]

Nice post Avalon :clap can you do our home budjet when we return :D
As long as you keep the coffee coming :laugh

[Annierobrigado]

We are going to look at what Oz has to offer and whether it is worth considering a move there and if not we will go home to the UK which is fine as I think it's a great place to live and we have more prospects there...

At least we won't have any regrets and wonder what if.... and in the meantime I'm hoping we get a good summer to make up for our winter :laugh

Louise


hi louise

do you mind telling me how old you and your husband are? and what are your lines of work?

just asking because we might encounter a situation quite like yours when our time comes. we really don't know what's in store for us.

good luck to you too, maybe australia would be easier on you.

annie

[spudulike]

Hi Annie,

Have sent you a PM

Louise :D

[browner_]

GST may apply to self employed contractors and sole traders, but employed people just pay Income Tax which will work out around 25-30% of your gross salary, depending on income (more for very large incomes).

I found it tough here at first (and I was mortgage free!) but have just about got myself into the job market properly now.

My concern is that, going back to the UK, I would be really poor. House prices and rentals are far higher there, as is petrol etc.

I would say that everything is cheaper in NZ, but you do have to find a decent income here, which can be hard I know.

[KerryS]

GST may apply to self employed contractors and sole traders, but employed people just pay Income Tax which will work out around 25-30% of your gross salary, depending on income (more for very large incomes).


Not too sure what income tax you've been paying, but the rates are 19.5% (up to $38K), 33% ($38,001 - $60k) and 39% (at over $60k). As a contractor you then pay an additional 12.5% on top of this, but only once you've offset your outgoings.

[Trigirl]

Not too sure what income tax you've been paying, but the rates are 19.5% (up to $38K), 33% ($38,001 - $60k) and 39% (at over $60k).
You are right about the rates. Obviously that means lots of people pay between 25 and 30% as browner says. quite a lot pay less than 25% (you have to be earning $64k to be paying 25%). but importantly hardly anyone pays more than 30% (only those earning over $98k)

As a contractor you then pay an additional 12.5% on top of this, but only once you've offset your outgoings.
I find this a slightly bizarre way of viewing GST. I'm a contractor in the UK but i don't consider that I pay 17.5% extra tax as VAT. I do charge 17.5% additional on top of my rate and then my limited company pays that over to the govt quarterly once my outgoings have been offset but I don't consider it "mine" in the first place so I don't see it as tax. Even if you do view it as tax its much higher in the UK anyway!

[KerryS]

I find this a slightly bizarre way of viewing GST. I'm a contractor in the UK but i don't consider that I pay 17.5% extra tax as VAT. I do charge 17.5% additional on top of my rate and then my limited company pays that over to the govt quarterly once my outgoings have been offset but I don't consider it "mine" in the first place so I don't see it as tax. Even if you do view it as tax its much higher in the UK anyway!

This whole thread originated due to paying of GST. I view the 12.5% gst as a tax because that it what it is - I have to charge that 12.5% tax to my employers. All my taxes are paid into a separate account, so I don't ever really regard the money as mine.

Oh, and I agree with you about the tax rates - I am having a terrible blonde moment and it's late at night here. I think I misread what Browner was initially saying.

[Trigirl]

i see what you are saying - but your employer doesn't pay that 12.5% - they offset it against the 12.5% they charge to their customers before paying that to the government. same as you do with your outgoings. so it doesn't cost them anything and is therefore irrelevant to the level at which you set your charges.

you bump up your invoices by 12.5% then pass it on to the govt. so its a tax but not a tax on you. its a tax on the final consumer of the products or services that your employer provides. you are simply the collection agent.

you do pay GST - you pay it on everything you buy in the supermarket etc. but so does everyone - not just contractors.

[MB]

Our situation is interesting. We have reversed roles and my wife now earns almost all money: she works one pt-time job in Auckland and another weekend job that she enjoys nearer home. I do a little work from home but have recently been using the time almost exclusively in taking care of our little boy and also completing one or two very substantial writing projects that just demand time.... and that will hopefully pay one day.

The major source of financial concern for us is petrol costs. Although I have zero commute costs (of course), my wife has several big journeys per week. We have now found a cheap coach service she uses to get to Auckland, but that plus petrol costs are still a huge amount of money per week, especially given our income right now. What we do have is a manageable mortgage here in the rural Waikato (not negligible, but low-ish per month). We will have to find another solution to the travel-cost challenge in the long run... it takes an awful lot of our resources just nursing it along for now. The reason we do that is because she has to foster the Auckland job, both because she adores it and because career-wise it is very sound and will hopefully lead to even better things. And taking on an Auckland-size mortgage is more or less completely out of the question for us at the moment. As it is she is lucky enough to be able to stay free once a week overnight at a friend's (no jokes please :laugh ) in Auckland, to reduce petrol costs.

More generally: it's odd. When we look at a week of our bank statement there are lots of outgoings, but it would be hard to find much more to cut. We do not eat out, we do not go to the cinema, we have not bought clothes or gadgets or CDs/books for ages, we don't go the pub, we have one modest pre-pay cell phone between us that is nigh-on a necessity for us, we don't have cable TV, we don't do pricey weekend things apart from a once-in-blue-moon zoo trip or something, we don't smoke, we only rent DVDs at the $1-each rate...Yes, we buy beer and wine at the supermarket, but my wife drinks not much at all and I drink moderately daily. I know my 'incidental' expenses are low because, e.g., this month I have been writing or caring for our lad pretty much 100% of the time... and half the time I don't even have access to our vehicle to go out and spend if I wanted to. So the money doesn't go much on nickel-and-dime stuff like magazines, lattes or work drinks.

Groceries? We regularly come in at around $160pw for the three of us, plus -- to be honest -- one or two more $15-30 trips per week for a basket-full of a few things like a new loaf, another six pack and some biscuits. But we don't do takeaways and we don't go to restuarants. Maybe BK once a month or so for a treat for our son.

On the whole: we don't mind this because we were almost sure it would be this way. You can't get a quart out of a pint pot, and neither of us has a stable full-time job with the accompanying $40K-$90K solid salary (forgive the daft wide range, but you know what I mean). We are getting by for now on term-time income and part-time work. Plus savings. We will have to adapt and improvise.
But among the advantages are that we have our lovely little cottage on a 1/4 acre; I have actually finished those writing projects; my wife has got into a college tutoring job she loves, in the skills area that NZIS got her here for; we have nice neighbours; we love our area and Kiwis; we enjoy library books and free-to-air TV and broadband Internet; seeing little rustic delights such as garden-kept pigs and goats; a good laugh and a few beers and each other; one of us is with our boy almost all the time; he is settling at kindy; and it's spring, and out of the window I can see our lemon tree plus all sorts of other colourful blooms and greens all over the place.

It's quite true that one person's standard expense is another's luxury, but as a very general guide I'd say that if you are the sort of person who enjoys a strong mental/creative life and one or maybe two lifestyle 'enhancers' (e.g., sports, books, fast Internet or wine) -- AND you take to the Kiwi pace, countryside and climate; THEN you will probably be able to get by on uncertain or low-middle income.
If on the other hand you just plain enjoy buying a lot of stuff, taking pricey holidays, living in a large, comfy house, and just like things generally to be very warm and agreeable...then good for you, come on over, but bring savings and get a well-paying job. You will be fine if you have either or preferaby both of those income strands, esp. if you do not stretch yourself mortgage-wise. But I do not think it accurate to suggest that families on a $20K-60K income will find NZ so cheap a place that their material standard of living will increase dramatically as soon as they step off the plane. We live in a 2-bdrm cottage that we love but it has been cold this winter. It is cheaper here than living in Auckland or even Hamilton, in most ways, but it is a very quiet area and as you have seen we are wrestling to balance income and outgoings... to the extent that one or both of us will probably have to take on quite a bit more work very soon (if we can find it! LOL) But, then again, look above for some of the benefits we have listed.

[Richard_from_Long Beach]

Beautifully said Matt

[Diny]

Brilliant post Matt. Sounds like you're doing just fine.

A couple of weeks ago we passed through Kihikihi, Mark was kicking himself that we didn't have your address or mobile number, it would have been good to catch up (we'd just had bacon butties at Kim & Elaines in Te Awamutu).

All the best.

Diny

[zardell]

Wonderful post Matt - and beautifully written.

Julie

xx

[MB]

Thanks Richard, Diny and Julie... those replies were very nice encouragements to receive after a rather long day (and long post! :laugh )

Also, sorry not to have been on forum or blog much recently. Will remedy that soon.

Thanks again, and all the best to everyone on the forum.

[willsken]

What a great read Matt - thanks :D

[Avalon]

Fantastic post - and really well put :cheers Especially this last bit - so true.

It's quite true that one person's standard expense is another's luxury, but as a very general guide I'd say that if you are the sort of person who enjoys a strong mental/creative life and one or maybe two lifestyle 'enhancers' (e.g., sports, books, fast Internet or wine) -- AND you take to the Kiwi pace, countryside and climate; THEN you will probably be able to get by on uncertain or low-middle income.
If on the other hand you just plain enjoy buying a lot of stuff, taking pricey holidays, living in a large, comfy house, and just like things generally to be very warm and agreeable...then good for you, come on over, but bring savings and get a well-paying job. You will be fine if you have either or preferaby both of those income strands, esp. if you do not stretch yourself mortgage-wise. But I do not think it accurate to suggest that families on a $20K-60K income will find NZ so cheap a place that their material standard of living will increase dramatically as soon as they step off the plane. We live in a 2-bdrm cottage that we love but it has been cold this winter. It is cheaper here than living in Auckland or even Hamilton, in most ways, but it is a very quiet area and as you have seen we are wrestling to balance income and outgoings... to the extent that one or both of us will probably have to take on quite a bit more work very soon (if we can find it! LOL) But, then again, look above for some of the benefits we have listed.

[Questor]

We're on one salary at the minute (significantly less than I was earning in the UK) and we're managing fine - OK we don't go out as much drinking as we used to, but we find we don't need to - there are just the 2 of us, and we have Sky, Broadband and nice food - we've actually discovered the joys of cooking from first principles again, and not felt the need to buy stuff to just "bung in the oven" so much (we'd never buy proper ready meals though...;) )

[Stapleton-Gray]

Hi.

We seem to be managing Ok, we saved up huge amounts before we left and thankfully have no mortgage on our house here, so we are hoping that a year or 2 down the line we wont run into any big financial worries!
We were a little concerned by the wages here and how different they are from the UK, but you kind of have to take the rough with the smooth.
We chose to come here as its always been a dream of ours and so far we are doing fine but if in a while we aren't living a lavesh lifestyle its not the be all and end all!!

Hopefully though with all our savings and no mortgage we shouldn't run into trouble. But if we do, how much do you get for selling your body here?! :p

Good luck guys and hope you sort things out x

[veronica]

$100 an hour in Auckland.our daughters friend was a receptionist (on $10 an hour) at a brothel up there. ;-)

[Stapleton-Gray]

$100 an hour, see thats not so bad! You can have a meal out for that and its only an hours work as opposed to a whole day. Problem solved Spud!

[jubjub]

$100 an hour in Auckland.our daughters friend was a receptionist (on $10 an hour) at a brothel up there. ;-)

There is one a few doors up the road, and we could do with a bit extra :p :D , cos hubby went to dentist...!!

In fact, in a funny aside to the debate, I had a guy turn up at my door today asking for a house one number different to ours (we lost a number off the mailbox!) and it was a "certain house" he was after.... :o :laugh

[spudulike]

$100 an hour, see thats not so bad! You can have a meal out for that and its only an hours work as opposed to a whole day. Problem solved Spud!

Excellent :laugh May have to find something more local though ;)

[spudulike]

Just thought I would give you a quick update as I've just recieved letter from the tax office. Well, as it turns out we do qualify for family assistance ($280 per fortnight) so that certainly eases the burden. We will still return to the UK after 2 years as long term we will be better off there financially but it does mean we can now stay for 2 years (we didn't think we would be able to!). We can also relax and enjoy our time here too.

Just as well really as my body is shot after having 2 children in 16 months so wouldn't get much money selling it!! :laugh

Thank you all so much for your advice, support and words of comfort. It's a great place to be able to turn in times of crisis and I am so grateful :)

Louise

[Avalon]

Wehey! :clap

Glad that helps a bit and hope you feel a bit better

[Diny]

Good news spud. Heard of a club theother day that 'specialises' in women of a certain age and shape ......... I'm game if you are !!!!!!

Come on girl .... boost that income - you kow you want to.

Diny

[Trigirl]

fab news!

hope you enjoy your 2 years.

[Smiler]

That's brilliant news Louise.

I really hope that makes a difference to you while you are in NZ and that you enjoy your next 2 years. :nice1

[clg]

Great news Louise! Enjoy your stay!