[spudulike]

ive been here a while now and i'm soo fed up of brits whinging and it is only the brits. there are lots of other nationalitys here and noone whinges like the brits. i just want to screem at all of them to just go back if your particular paradise in wolverhampton of wherever is so good. these kind of people reelly bug me.

Hey lighten up a bit! :)

I don't think it is just Brits that whinge - I speak to many people of many nationalities that are not terribly happy here - not because it is a dreadful place to live but just not what they expected. I think it really depends partly on where people are coming from which will determine how well they settle - I have not yet met anybody who has come here from South Africa who have found it really difficult to settle as what they are escaping is so horrendous it is hard to contemplate. But even then, many leave home with a heavy heart despite the dangers they have left behind - and many cannot return to their native home.

People who have come from Britain or the US have come from a relatively safe environment and can sometimes arrive and realise that life hasn't got considerably better having made this great leap - we are fortunate enough to live in a world where we are able to travel and 'find out' if we like it - there is no law saying we HAVE to like it!

I think that Browner sounds very down at the moment and when you feel like that it can be really hard to see any positives - and a rant sometimes does the power of good :laugh It does seem a little like kicking someone when they are down to then have such a personal attack like that! I have been a member of this forum long before I ever posted and one of the wonderful aspects is that people have been able to be honest and let off steam without being judged or attacked.

Browner - hope things improve for you soon whether you decide to stay or go :nice1

Louise

[pieeater]

I've been thinking this afternoon whilst nailing a few weather boards on, about the whingeing pom comment.We will have been here 5 years on Wednesday and will become N.Z.citizens within in the next few weeks.The other day I rang the police to have a chat with them after two of my friends had been burgled in the same week.I also brought up the subject of the gang culture that is growing N.Z.wide and also about the 'P' epidemic.The Lovely Policewoman gave me the the no.of the Police Community Liason Officer,and also suggested I contact my M.P.which I have done.Now does this make me a whingeing pom who should scuttle back to the northern mining town where I cum from or a concerned citizen?

[Avalon]

Caspar.

If you dont like it - why are reading it :confused: Just seems a bit pointless really. There are other forums about emigrating where its Ok to behave like that - but here we are entitled to "whinge" as much as we like, not to be rude.

Im sure no one would mind listenting to anything you have to say about how great NZ is - but to just post and have a pop at someone is a bit odd to say the least - yo0u havent actually said anything yet.

[Debbie P.]

Maybe we Brits just like being brutally honest... It's just our way, I think. And anyway, I thought the idea of the forum was that we could let off steam and be heard sympathetically?

Speaking as someone who doesn't want to go into this with her eyes closed, I find the comments really helpful - I realise that they're all subjective and that people on here often hold opposing views, but it still provides a useful insight and helps me think about things I haven't really considered. Good on yer 'whingers'!

[olivia]

I totally agree with Debbie. As someone who's not yet in NZ it has been very helpful to me to see what some of the negative aspects to our life there could be. Since i started reading this forum i have a much better idea of what to expect when we arrive and i'd rather be forewarned.

Olivia

P.S. and none of what i have read has put me off in the slightest.

[wilson182]

It is a fact that nobody gets away with just "whinging" on this forum (and I dont really think that anybody does). What we do end up with is a very "lively" discussion, with all parties involved trying their best to be respectfull of other peoples point of view. Im sure browner doesnt expect everyone to agree with what he says.

[Stapleton-Gray]

Whinging Brits ----- Erm, if I'm totally honest I kind of agree!! I am a british fella through and through but I would say that out of all the people I know, I'm one of the rare few that look to all the good things about something. I would say that it is in the British culture to have a moan here and there. I guess everyone loves a moan but maybe British people are happy to do it all out loud?! Who knows.

But what I will say is this. No where is perfect. I am highly travelled and chose NZ to be the place I settled because I fell in love with it years ago when I was on holiday and have been coming back since. Now I am here and living here, sure there loads of things that don't meet my 'expectations' or things that are totally different to what I thought they would be, because I was here on holiday with rose tinted glasses on. HOWEVER, the difference between moaning about it and actually allowing all the negative things to pass over me is to keep those glasses on!!!!
As I say no where is perfect and we can't expect NZ to be any different but remember this.....We all chose/ or choose to come here because we want to either live in a more beautiful place, or get away from our old lives in Uk, move away from all the problems that seem to be arising in the UK and whatever else. Something attracts us all to NZ and keep that in your mind. It really isn't an awful place to live. I am happier than I have been anywhere in the world and so what there is a bit gang culture here and there and drug abusers floating around or petty criminals....the truth is they are everywhere, we probably just notice it more here because its not massively populated.

Anyway, I'm rambling and probably have bored you all! But all I know is everyday I wake up and look at my view and smile knowing I made the right choice regardless.

JSG

[browner_]

browner, why don't u just go back to se england or wherever you come from and stop bothering us with your tedious whinging??

Sorry, this is a FORUM. Not much point having a forum if you dont allow people to post their opinions on it.

Is this what you want?:

"Oh NZ is so green and wonderful, just like in the pictures, like the garden of Eden in fact, or Godzone "

The trouble is NZ has an image internationally of being everything much of the rest of the world isnt - clean, green, plenty of wild animals and birds, lots of leisure time.

The truth is far from that view. NZ is actually one of the most polluting countries in the world, per capita. The only reason that NZ isnt all like the worst parts of London is because no-ones here. As for the wild animals, much of the population takes great delight in going out and shooting most of it - lovely. Even the dolphins.

If NZ wants to live up to its reputation, then the people have to change attitude significantly, and realise that they still have a relatively unspoilt environment if they care to think about it. But no, they will continue to drive their 4wds (up streams and on beaches for godsake) and pathetic boy racers cars.

I really dont care if you dont agree. Post your own views, dont criticise mine.

[herseymusic]

Eh, New Zealand is like the wild west here in some ways - and unsurprisingly, as this was the last place on earth to be colonized. We're pigs, really. And it's a total crock that NZ Immigration promised you all that leisure time.

::drives 4wd over sensitive wetlands::

::flies private airplane to Marlborough Sounds::

::shoots dolphins::



Sorry, just thought this thread could use a little lightening up ;-)

[Diny]

I shall hold my hand up here and admit that we often take our 4WD along the beach - in fact the kids and I drove a 20km stretch along the beach on Sunday.

There's a huge sign as you enter the beach saying 'The Beach Is A Road' and it states that the speed limit of 30kph MUST be adhered to.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not breaking the law.

We drive along rivers too. My father in law is the founding member of the Manawatu 4WD Club, you should see the places they take thier vehicles.

We also own some land at Foxton Beach, it's only 6km from Foxton - the place you hate so much.

Although I agree with a huge amount of what you say Browner, I guess by admitting the above I'm one of those who ruin NZ.

Diny

[KerryS]

NZ is actually one of the most polluting countries in the world, per capita. The only reason that NZ isnt all like the worst parts of London is because no-ones here.


I'm not going to criticise your viewpoint browner, I believe everyone is entitled to their own point of view, but I do want to point out the factual inaccuracies in your statement above.

The reason that NZ has a high level of pollution is actually due to the fact that it is such a sparsely populated country. NZ signed up to the Kyoto agreement, in all faith that they would be one of the most environmentallly friendly nations on earth. Unfortunately the government miscalculated the methane production from cows (and sheep) which have countered the original carbon credits and as a result NZ has a debt of $1.2 billion to Kyoto.

NZ is using the methane though - landfill is just one of the many methods of power production utilised here, rather than finite fossil fuels.

I don't know of anybody who shoots dolphins - shooting wild pigs, trapping possums - these are nuisances, and the possum is known to be causing devastation in rural NZ.

[Carol]

I don't know of anybody who shoots dolphins .

Nope - me neither.


Yes this is a forum. Discussion is at the heart of it.
One of the things I really like about it - is the fact that in the majority of cases, the discussion is without aggression and personal attacks (Unlike OTHER forums I have had the misfortune of dropping in on)

I notice that one of the posts above has been edited by ENZ because of name calling.
Good on you moderators.
That sort of posting is un-neccessary, and not in the spirit of THIS forum.

I have lived here for ten years.
I have participated in this forum for the last 2.
I joined because I enjoy it - if I can be of help to anyone with information I will do it.
My rose coloured glasses have long gone and I'm wearing very different ones now. No matter where you live people whinge. It's human nature. Some of the biggest whingers I know are kiwis..... I avoid them. Life is too short to listen to it.

But ....
I too am in Wellington, and I have to say the place I live in bears little resemblence to what you are describing Browner..
I do not live in a particularly affluent area - but it certainly isnt the pits either.
There is nothing I love more than spending a weekend at the beach on the Kapiti coast. THe simplicity of the place is the attraction for me.
You are entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to mine.
But I have read so many times - wild sweeping statements on here which are simply not true.

How we put our opinions over is the difference I believe.
I certainly would be deeply offended by someone on here who doesnt know me from Adam - calling me names or whatever.

The moderators on here have a job to do - and thank goodness they do it as well as they do.
Thanks guys :yes :cheers

[pieeater]

I think Browner might be going through something I went through myself.The reality of N.Z. life fell short of my expectations and I was very dissapointed by many factors.I expressed these feelings by making sweeping negative statements much like Browner.I have had to readjust and accept N.Z.for what it is 'warts n all' for now.Don't know about any random Dolphin shooting but they do get caught in 'set nets'when carelessly used and shoot them then.And they are still getting helping themselves to free feeds of Kerorou despite warnings that it will be extinct in 10 years time.

[Hannah]

Come back fish and chips debate, all is forgiven :-)

The fish and chip shop at the "Lobster Pot" in New Plymouth was wicked!!! "Snappers" was great too, fish of the day always a winner :-)

Sorry, at home today with my son off sick and feeling a bit lonely.......

[Soon2baKiwi]

Browner - I'm sorry you're going through a bad patch. I empathise completely because my husband was like this 6 years ago when we moved to Ireland. The things he complained about make us laugh now e.g. it was a crap country because we couldn't find extra large oven roasting bags :wah I'm not making light of what you're going through but that's just an example of how someone sees things when they are somewhere they don't want to be. We solved the problem to a huge degree by moving from a small country town to Dublin. It was as easy as that, although it didn't seem easy at the time. Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound like you might be suffering from depression. It's very easy to fall into. When you keep getting knock downs your seratonin (sp) levels fall and don't build back up to the proper level without artifical help.

[MB]

About one particular expectation some folks might have:

Something that UK and US folks (maybe others, too, but I have no experience of their countries) might want to bear in mind is that on the whole NZ lacks the super-cheapness of certain goods found in the US and the super-cheapness of certain goods -- though not necessarily the same ones -- found in the UK.
Here's what I mean: you can walk into US drugstores and if you time it right can buy 1000 aspirin for about $5. And you can get very low prices on electronics and cars(?) too. In the UK, shoppers are now used to 10p tins of beans and 20p-60p loaves, biscuits, pasta, etc.

Take those snapshot examples as seriously or as lightly as you like, but you're unlikely to find regular comparable super-bargains in NZ. That is not to say that there are not pleasant surprises in NZ: butter, for example, comes in huge slabs and is cheap. And good second-hand cars seem inexpensive.

But on the whole I would not recommend NZ as an obvious destination for folks who like to buy lots very cheaply, and have lots to choose from. Things aren't that much more pricey here -- dry pasta is dry pasta, and who needs 1000 aspirin anyway? -- but on the whole folks on any kind of budget will have to choose and spend a little more carefully in NZ IMHO.

Was this state of affairs -- if my observations are valid -- what we expected? Yes. I came here for a recce visit and did some price comparisons, and also I just had a vague feeling that NZ's geographical remoteness and lack of a huge population (and maybe a few other factors) would entail many goods being a little more expensive than in places such as the US or UK.
So it's fine by us: besides, see a brief summary of my swings-and-roundabouts theory in paragraph below.

Disclaimer: my general point above is a face-value one and I neither intend it as a question-begging comment on the true 'cost' of loss-leader goods, nor as a detraction from a wee theory of mine that I think has at least some informal validity:
which is that living in any developed country such as the US, UK, NZ, or Oz can be argued to be a swings-and-roundabouts affair when it comes to expenses. That is, what you save on certain routine expenses in one country can often be offset by another kind of routine expense in the same country. Silly example: you save some $$$ in the drugstore in the US, but then go next door to the supermarket. Now cookies seem to be considered a luxury item and are hence a bit pricier than they are in the UK. Buy a few packs in the US and there goes your savings from the drugstore!
More importantly, though, the theory has this salvation: the determined family on a budget can find their way through any of these countries' tapestries of expenses: each country offers its bright sides as well as its Achilles heels. All of them have libraries, cheaper shops, social systems, plain-wrap goods, child-care options, etc., etc. It just takes a reasonably sharp pair of eyes and a little determination to chart the map of affordability in the country you choose.

[browner_]

Browner - I'm sorry you're going through a bad patch.

Maybe. The issue is that , when emigrating, of course you move with high hopes, and it all seems like a good idea at the time.
One or two things happened that set me back admittedly, that I couldnt have predicted.

But at the end of the day there is a harsh realisation that things here are DIFFERENT, and from my perspective many things (probably the most important things) are worse, or at least no better, which makes it wonder why you bothered.

Anybody who has come to NZ in the last few years is going to find it mighty tough to go back to the UK, with house prices what they are.

My posts have been trying to point out some of the reasons why NZ may not be everyones cup of tea, and maybe some wont make the same mistakes I have made.

My advice to anyone would be, that if you are emigrating for a "change" of life or better life, then be really clear before you come how you are going to achieve, in terms of income, where you are going to live and what social structure you want to be part of.

I havent really achieved any "change" and would rather be where I was before. I am still working in the "city" , 9 to 5, same old job really,no more leisure time, no more income, no less "stress", no new leisure activities to pursue, and I have had to sacrifice a lot for that!

Still, at least the guys down the round have nice wide bore exhausts.

[Keith]

Having set this post running, It becomes apparent that people have some wide ranging views on NZ and what might appeal to one person is anothers worse nightmare.

However saying that, for someone like myself who hasn't made the move it is enlightening, As just do it doesn't do it for me I need to know what I am getting myself into (or not ).

We can all just make do but if you have some idea of what it is like from other peoples perpective it helps not only to make a decision, (though can cofuse you to) on weather to move but also makes you better prepared if you do make the move.

Thanks for all the comments and please keep on responding if you wish, still havn't decided yet , but if we do I am sure we will have a few more different Q to ask.

Cheers

[jess]

Have been without internet after our move to a new house (still on Kapiti coast) so just read this long thread. Sparked a few wide ranging comments. So it's a bit all over the place...

I did not expect to find so many vegetarian options for cheap at cafes and bakeries - fritatas to die for, cheese and celery sandwiches, egg salad sandwiches, veg. pizza. All for $3.50 - $6.50

Did not expect the already made cakes, the cake mixes and ready made icing to be so incredibly bad. I loved a Duncan Hines mix in the US. (Had someone send me that and icing for my husband's birthday. Although I could have made a cake the familiarity made a nice surprise for him shortly after we arrived).

I did not expect food to be quite so expensive for smaller portions of things. Not just prepared foods.

Best foods mayo is Hellmans. Hooray! I must be hungry. Enough about food.

Love it here. I think I didn't expect to love it here this much. Although I still feel like a foreigner who's still finding out new things all the time, I 've only been here since April, so it's not surprising.

On the other hand I did not expect it to feel so much like America here in some ways. The Warehouse is a lot like Walmart and grocery stores are like grocery stores anywhere. And of course at home in the evening it's just us two Americans and lots of US stuff available on tv. I realize this contradicts my feeling like a foreigner, but there it is. When I look out at Kapiti island I feel like I'm in NZ. When I'm at blockbuster or the grocery I almost forget.

Where we rented I heard boy racers all the time. I don't hear any of them here.

Whether I am or not, I feel loads safer than I did in the US.

I did not expect to have to get council approval (at quite a cost) for almost anything I might want to change at the house.

I didn't expect buying a home or getting a mortgage to be so easy with relatively little paperwork.

I miss Tylenol PM (or even better the $6 CVS generic equivalent) for occassional help sleeping with arthritis. It's available here only as something like Unisom that costs $60 for 8 pills. Maybe it's better that I do without with all the stuff they are finding out about pain relievers.

Collin - Your son could try Watties bag of frozen Mediterranian Veg which are already seasoned and taste great. 25 minutes in the oven. Healthy, quick and really great with a splash of lemon or a dollop of sour cream.

Ok I really am hungry. Time for breakfast.

[K&CS]

I'll just make this short, because there isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said. We love it here - as Jess above said about herself - really didn't expect to love it so much. In terms of 'missing' things, I suppose there are little things, but nothing I'm pining for if that makes sense. I've realised that I can survive quite easily wihout Robinsons Kiwi and Strawberry squash and Cadbury Bunch Bars (know they have them here, but they're not a patch). I think the common theme is that you need to have a decent amount of money behind you to live comfortably. I think wherever you are in the world, if you are struggling hard to make ends meet, you're not going to feel particularly happy or positive. We're fortunate that we had a lot of equity in our home in the UK so can take advantage of that here. We still have to budget in a way we didn't in the UK, but not as much as some people on here have mentioned. It's not adversely affecting the way we live our lives, but I can appreciate that this isn't the case for a lot of people.

In short, what I'm saying is that NZ can be a fabulous place to live, but make sure you can afford to live here - if it means waiting a couple of years to save up, then do so.

Good luck Keith - hope you manage to make the right decision.

Kate

[spudulike]

In short, what I'm saying is that NZ can be a fabulous place to live, but make sure you can afford to live here - if it means waiting a couple of years to save up, then do so.


Probably one of the best pieces of advice I've read so far! A couple of years saving could make all the difference as having to struggle will sour what could be a wonderful experience.

Hard to be that patient I know - but better in the long term.... :nice1

Louise

[Soon2baKiwi]

K&CS & Jess - great posts. And not just because you like it here. The things Jess mentions that she misses - we all pine from time to time for things we miss. Out of the blue the other day I longed for a M&S meal. Anything really would have done - just the walking in and picking up a complete meal. But when I lived in London I missed food I used to have in Holland (still do - does anyone want to send me a shoarma mix??? - yes I know it's not Dutch LOL). Missing something now and then isn't enough of a blight on my landscape to make a difference.

And as for K&CS... well, completely true. WHERE in the world will you be happy if you haven't got enough money to live comfortably? We could all, if we'd been born to it, live in a mud hut. But, we weren't. Well, someone might have been :laugh but most of us haven't. So, we've got certain expectations of what it means to live comfortably. Just make sure that dreams don't cloud your reality.