[Keith]

Sorry another very open question and in essence a simply one but sure the answers will be complicated.

" Has New Zealand lived up to what you expected and would you do it again if you had a second chance"?


:cheers

[spudulike]

Hi Keith,

I can see this being another one of those posts with lots of replies :laugh

I really think everybody has such different expectations that it's a diificult one with no set answer....

From our perspective, we had both been to NZ before so thought we knew pretty much what to expect. However, when we were here last we never had children and it was considerably cheaper! Both these factors combined have made it very difficult for us.

Some of the things we did expect;
I think the obvious things such as the beaches, scenery, etc are pretty much what everyone expects yet it never ceases to amaze me that we will drive somewhere and another stunning view will take my breath away.

Many things are as we expected such as the food, the fish is exceptional, the meat is mediocre at best and the quality of the veggies varies from week to week and depending where it is bought.

There isn't much choice on consumer goods as there is a smaller population but again, if you know this it is not such a disappointment, just a fact of life.

Plus, everything is very expensive from furniture to clothes!!

Unfortunately the standard of housing is exactly as we expected - cold and damp..... :uhoh

Some of the things we didn't expect;
We didn't expect to find it quite so crippling financially.

Electricity is far more expensive than we thought - plus they raise the price of it in winter :mad:

We didn't expect to feel quite so isolated - NZ really is a long way from anywhere and sometimes it can feel like that.

I didn't expect to miss the crowds - I really don't enjoy walking down empty streets

Things that have exceeded expectations;

The quality and choice of provision for pre schoolers! I take my children to a different activity every day and they are both cheap and really well run.

The play areas are beautifully designed and well maintained. I also don't need to worry about my children stepping in dog muck as they are banned from parks.

Generally NZ is really geared towards families and you are not penalised if you have large families - there is generally a top price for Zoo's etc and motels will often sleep up to 7 in a 2/3 bedroom arrangement.

Cheap car insurance!! - we would never be able to afford to insure our car fully comp in the UK

That's all I can think of at the moment but I know more will come throughout the day so I'll be back!! :laugh

Do I regret coming here???
We applied for PR with the intention of remaining in NZ. We now know we will only stay 2 years then we'll return to the UK.

If I had known then what I know now I would still have come and would highly recommend anybody give it a go. I would have regretted not coming - I will never regret giving it a try!!

Louise

[Vanessa]

Louise,
What a lovely post. We have been in NZ for about a month now and I can already agree with everything you have said about it, except I like the empty streets! The other thing is I didn't expect the housing to be as bad as it reallys is, despite reading about it on this forum! And I don't understand why the houses don't have better heating systems, seems such a basic thing that we take for granted in the UK.
Why will you be returning to the UK in 2 years? Like you we planned to be here for good and I think that is still our intention so far!

[Diny]

Has New Zealand lived up to what you expected?

More or less yes it has. Obviously living here is totally different to being here on holiday and no matter how well you think you know a place there's bound to be a few suprises. The main thing which I expected to be better than it actually is is the education system - but we can't win them all.

I also expected to have some kind of 'wow epiphany' ...... 14 months down the line it hasn't happened yet.

I didn't expect to miss my family and friends from so much. Folks here are great but alot of the time 'them and me' are on totally different wavelengths.

I expected the winters to be milder than they really are, I expected lamb to be cheaper, and I didn't expect (although I should have done) to be surrounded by such overwhelming gusto for rugby ...(for an avid hater of all things sport that a biggie for me).

However - apart from a couple of 'niggles' all is pretty much how I expected it to be ... no major issues to cause too many probs.

Would you do it again if you had a second chance?

Absolutley !!!! Without a shadow of a doubt. I don't see us here for ever, but whether we leave in 1 year or 20 years it will have been worth every drop of blood, sweat and tears invested.

Diny

[Keith]

It seems that a lot of people get to new zealand and regret it a bit, and then stick to the 2 year return to there home country.

Personnely I would find this hard because if I took (the) a Job out there I would find it hard to return the UK and get a Job again n the same sort of wage I was on at the time I left. So I would end up in a downward spiral.

Hence the reason I am asking loads of questions which may seem inane but might help me to make as an informed decision as possible.

It's a big decisions and one I am , we are finding very very hard

For us it would be a decision for a long term stay , Hopefully

[Avalon]

Keith - promise I will answer this - but im off to bed cos ive just got a blinding headche :( But I was wondering - what are YOU expecting from NZ?

Just a thought that popped into my head (I wonder if thats what brought the headache - thinking again :laugh ) - that it may help to get your thoughts down on paper(ish) - and spark some different replies.

Night Night

[Keith]

OK I will have a go,

I am in the position were I will have a job before I go so can hopefully negotiate my salary before I make the decision.

However this is only half the problem.

Initially we thought yes go for it why not etc but doubts creep in, too sensible you say

We already have a good active outdoor life, as we live in a rural part of the south west, so the crime is low (ish), weather not bad, house ok, we have our compfor zone, which is what we all look for eventually, do we step out of it, to never find it. You will never no if you don;t try I hear you shout. Doesn;t help though.

We have no children, and nz appears to be a very family culture so we might feel a bit isolated socially.

This might all sound a bit neg but then thats what bugs people, the positives seem to be put to the back of the mind.

We keep coming back to what will we gain.

[Koen]

I am not in NZ (yet) but hope to get a better family life , less stress ,maybe a house near the beach :-)
I do understand that no country is heaven on earth and everywhere you go you need to work for a living.
What will I miss , well since I am from Belgium , beer and chocolates i guess.

[Lupin]

We already have a good active outdoor life, as we live in a rural part of the south west, so the crime is low (ish), weather not bad, house ok, we have our compfor zone, which is what we all look for eventually

Just a thought, but if you're quite happy with your life but are just looking for a bit of an adventure/change then why not rent out your UK house, try and negotiate a year break from your current job and have a year in NZ, taking a couple of months for travel and the rest for work. TBH, if this option was financially available to me and I already had a lifestyle I wanted and no children, that's what I'd do because then you don't risk pulling out of the UK property market until you are very sure you want to invest in NZ long term. Also then you don't have to chew over the ramifications of burning bridges, you'd just have a big adventure in front of you. win-win.

[Al_S]

Also then you don't have to chew over the ramifications of burning bridges, you'd just have a big adventure in front of you. win-win.
Great suggestion indeed.

[Diny]

Very good suggestion Lupin. TBH Keith, after reading about your current situation, it's my opinion that you won't actually be 'better off' if you come over here to live.

However, this is such a difficult situation to advise upon. What may not be worth it for one person may be THE deciding factor for another. It sounds as though your life in the UK is very similar to what ours was like, bearing this in mind, although we are happy enough here and think NZ is a great place, there are little (if any) advantages to living here. It's been a sideways move - no better, no worse.

On the other hand, what an adventure !!! But like you say - talking about 'regretting it if you don't do it' is of no help. Maybe Lupin's suggestion would be the best way to go for you guys. Have you ever been to NZ before? If not - how about a holiday combined with a recce trip?

Have sent you a PM.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Diny

[spudulike]

Just a thought, but if you're quite happy with your life but are just looking for a bit of an adventure/change then why not rent out your UK house, try and negotiate a year break from your current job and have a year in NZ, taking a couple of months for travel and the rest for work. TBH, if this option was financially available to me and I already had a lifestyle I wanted and no children, that's what I'd do because then you don't risk pulling out of the UK property market until you are very sure you want to invest in NZ long term. Also then you don't have to chew over the ramifications of burning bridges, you'd just have a big adventure in front of you. win-win.

Excellent suggestion - wish we'd done this!

Although we still have our house deposit for when we get back we'll start lower down the housing market. I'm not looking forward to starting over again. :no

Good luck with whatever you decide!

Louise

[ruthyroo]

Just wanted to add my agreement to the above suggestion by Lupin. Cince making the move out here (just the two of us, no kids) I have realised that there would have been many other ways to have an adventure that didn't require us to move lock stock etc to NZ. I do find NZ to be very family oriented, and a lot of the good things that you can experience are things that I would want to do if we have kids e.g. have a bit of land, grown your own veggies, big house, lots of free beaches and walks, learn to budget like a crazy person, etc. but they dont necessarily spin my wheels while young, free and married. The things I do like to do (travel, food, wine, culture) are not the easiest of things to do from NZ - especially having been spoiled by the proximity of Europe in the past. There are good reasons why so many young kiwis disappear after they graduate and don't return to NZ until they want to settle down and have a family!

While we don't regret having come out here (well not often anyway), I am very sure now that a long holiday in NZ would have sufficed to see all the good bits, without the stress of low salaries, crap jobs, moving etc. But you live and you learn. As has been said here before, Auckland airport has a departure lounge too.

You ask what will you gain? You will gain life experiences - good and bad, as you would anywhere. Some things will work out and be great, some things will not be so good and you will have to work through them. I think that Mr Rr and I will look back on our time in NZ and remember the good things - the trips to Fiordland, the kayaking on the Rotorua Lakes and Bay of Island, the friends that we made and the good fun we had, the fantastic lakeside house we lived in for a year, the sunshine and the bush, the wine and food of Hawke's Bay and Central Otago, skiing at Cardrona and Mt Hutt, time spent with visiting family and friends, holiday to the Cooks, and having so much time to spend just the two of us, no family distractions. We will probably forget a lot of the less good things, the low salaries and lack of disposable income, the cold damp houses we rented, the boy racers and noisy exhausts, the crappy jobs, the homesickness, etc. That's life though.

[Moorf]

NZ wouldn't have been for us 10 yrs ago when we were in our late 20's, for much the same reasons as ruthyroo outlined above and back then we were still hungry for money and careers and climbing the UK property ladder. After a while that didn't become the focus of our lives and we decided we wanted a different life - not a sideways move or a money-making/bigger house deal (for once) but a better life. For us that meant freedom from having to maintain high salaries, commutes, crowds and all the pressures we associated with that. We also wanted an adventure and having no children enabled us to risk a move to NZ - because it is a risk, you just can't know if it's for you until you are here.

We kept a property back in the UK and rented it out - after 18 months we felt we had seen and experienced enough of NZ to know it was a lengthy proposition and we sold that property, cutting our last UK financial ties - we never say we'll be here until we pop our clogs, that serves no useful purpose in my eyes, you just don't know what's around the corner. If our families really needed us I'd go back in a flash - property prices or what we might own in the UK really doesn't feature in that equation. If we kept a running tab of what we can and can't afford back in the UK what good does that do us? You're either here .. or there. That's how we think, not the same for everyone.

NZ is far far more expensive that we expected, but we cut our cloth accordingly and it's the usual balancing act of $$ vs happiness.

NZ is emptier than I expected (having only travelled S.Island that's a limited observation!)

NZ is colder than I expected and hotter than I expected!

NZ'ers are friendlier than I was led to believe.

NZ didn't feel as much like "home" as we'd expected - I remember reading a post before we left the UK where someone had arrived at Chch airport and instantly felt like they were "home".. that didn't happen.

[sarahw]

Good post Moorf! You're right about the kind of move you made - that's us exactly - a move to a better, different life without the stress of high salaried (overworked) lives (its Friday 1pm, my OH is on a boat out off the coast of Welly catching tonight's dinner - its a work day he's in construction but he's not on a building site!! - what's more other mates from the site are there & his boss knows about it!)

If we'd done a running tab of what we could afford here/there we'd never have come! But we never came here to have the same life we had in the UK - what would have been the point?! As it is NZ has more than exceeded our expectations. The outdoor life has been wonderful - we hardly are indoors during summer - kayaking, swimming in rivers, long walks & picnicks on deserted beaches, windsurfing, and this spring we're hoping to start to learn to sail - these are things that we just wouldn't have done in the UK - not because we couldn't have but because it took so long to get to the beach & it wasn't something our mates did either - its all on our doorstep here!

It really felt like home early on for me, but it takes a while to build up new friends base & getting to know locals - that's what really makes it home, when you can just nip next door when you fancy a chat & a cup of tea or to borrow something, or bumping into friends in the street/shops/restaurants.

Since arriving here we've become a family (new daughter) & I must say that the country is set up fantastically for kids - what a great place to bring up kids!!

Whilst you have to experience whether or not its right for you & make that decision, you shouldn't beat yourself up about 'what if I don't like it?' & decide to go back (deal with that as & if it happens) - at least you'll have that life experience, sure you might have to go back on a different job level or have a smaller house, its only money & can be earnt again - but isn't it worth the punt to find out? - you never know it might, like it has been for us, be the best thing you ever did with your life?!

[Avalon]

OK I will have a go,

I am in the position were I will have a job before I go so can hopefully negotiate my salary before I make the decision.

However this is only half the problem.

Initially we thought yes go for it why not etc but doubts creep in, too sensible you say

We already have a good active outdoor life, as we live in a rural part of the south west, so the crime is low (ish), weather not bad, house ok, we have our compfor zone, which is what we all look for eventually, do we step out of it, to never find it. You will never no if you don;t try I hear you shout. Doesn;t help though.

We have no children, and nz appears to be a very family culture so we might feel a bit isolated socially.

This might all sound a bit neg but then thats what bugs people, the positives seem to be put to the back of the mind.

We keep coming back to what will we gain.

Very good question. Not everyone gains much from coming here. Most do - one way or another, but i have to say its never certain - so we ALL take a risk.

I would say dont worry too much about lack of children. Since coming here - my life without kids has been fine and dandy. Many of my friends here dont have kids (in some cases dont have kids here in NZ), and wont have kids. We have a blast. You shouldnt find too much of a problem - and if people are going to blank you for not being in the "kiddy" circle - well - they would probably do that anywhere.

As to what we did not expect:

I actually thought people would be friendly than I have found them. I was told several times that people would be in and out all day, generally being highly sociable - and I havent found that to be the case. On saying that - Ive decided this is down to teh area we live in - because you'll see that Moorf for example has a different view. No different than in the UK really where different areas have different feels to them.

Money was a big one. Cost of living is NOT cheap - see Spudulikes thread for a discussion on that. It catches a lot of people out. We are doing quite well - but many are not.

I was also surprised by how much kiwis work. Again - led to believe they all stop work early and hit the beach with thier families. Not really seen it, and in a lot of cases - work / life balance can be worse than in the UK. NZ hasnt adopted flexible working in a big way. Oh has managed it - but many dont.

I was taken aback by just how cut off from the world I felt - but to be honest - this is growing on me :nice1

And I was stunned by how much I actually disliked the food here. Grocery sghopping was very hard for me - but again - its something Ive got used to.

Is it right for you? Dont know. But I do think the suggestion that you dont make the move in such a way as to make it final is a fantastic one. If you can move with your company - can you investigate keeping your UK job open for a year - maybe as a secondment or leav of absence? You get to try NZ without making a full-on commitment.

Hope that helps

[Trigirl]

And I was stunned by how much I actually disliked the food here. Grocery sghopping was very hard for me - but again - its something Ive got used to.


Avalon - if you get a minute would you mind expanding on this? I'm keen to find out more about food in NZ - I'm a big fan of shopping and cooking - its my primary means of relaxing. What sort of things don't you like about NZ food? I had a look round Pak n Save while we were in Wellington and to be honest had come away with the assumption that it was just like English food but I guess you can't tell just by looking!

Don't worry if you don't have time - its not something I'm hugely worried about - just interested. (not really hugely worried about anything now about moving to NZ with the exception of how quickly we can get on with it!!!)

Thanks
Mandy

[Avalon]

No problem Mandy:

My main problem was with the sheer number of additives in food here. Im a firm believer in the principle that if I buy a chicken - I want it to be 100% chicken (ignoring the stuffing - because I can just choose not to eat that). Not 85% chicken and 15% syrup (or worse). Im a big meat eater - and i was shocked at just how much of the meat was poor quality. Very fatty ( as in lumps of fat rather than say marbling in beef steaks), and how much was "tenderised" - usually by adding sugary "stuff". And teh sausages :wah (Theres a thread someone on here regarding my search for an edible sausage!)

I also struggled with the whole cream thing. I have cream in coffee, and cook with it a lot - and you can only get single cream here. No double cream (and no clotted cream :wah which was a lovely pudding treat for me back home). I honestly still cannot get my head round this - NZ has a HUGE dairy industry - and yet cream comes in 1 strength so to speak. To get "double" cream - you have to have "thickened cream". Basically single cream with thickener added to it. And dont get me started on NZ mayonnaise! Urghhh!

I find things incredibly sweet here. Sugar justs get added to so much stuff - and I just cant tolerate it. That has made life really hard for me here. Ive been here long enough that I now know where to go to get what I want - but it really has caused me some big problems. I spend a lot of money on meat for example because I always buy it at moore wilsons, and go for the expensive stuff that I know hasnt pumped full of rubbish. The local butchers here just dont sell stuff I would eat.

Like most things - this is quite individual. I eat a certain way - and NZ just isnt that geared up for the "I dont want to eat tons of sugar" brigade :D My impression (and im not sure if its a fair comparison) is that the food here is much more american than english in style. Ive come across cuts of meat, flavours, foods that ive only heard about on american forums.

And im not sure ill ever get the point of "corned Silverside". Tastes like plastic :confused:

Any of that make any sense ???

[Trigirl]

That does make lots of sense. Thank you. Some of those things would bother me a lot and some not. We don't really ever eat cream so thats unlikely to be a problem. But the meat and chicken thing is definitely an issue - I guess I'll probably end up at Moore Wilsons too for meat - i've only heard good things about them.

I'm a triathlete and my husband is a runner so we are very careful about what we eat. Actually maybe interested rather than careful is a better description. We occasionally choose to eat stuff that is bad for us but we do so knowingly!

The idea of adding sugar or syrup to meat is beyond me. And NZ lamb is supposed to be the best in the world? Ah well - we will work it out one way or another.

Wednesday we went to the Sausage and Mash Cafe in Smithfields. I had one somerset pork with cider sausage, one pork and hops sausage and one lamb and apricot sausage :clap I'm definitely going to miss my bangers!

Still I cook at home for us 6 days a week here and I'll do the same in Wellington so I guess that gives us a certian amount of control even if not so much choice as we have here. I don't think my husband would care one way or another - he'd find one thing he's happy with then eat the same thing every day if I'd let him!

[Lupin]

Reminds me of a campsite we stayed on (can't remember where...edge of a grotty town and it was raining) with a communal kitchen where we prepared our dinner. There was a German couple there terribly excited because they'd bought a "real" sausage from a local farmer and they'd been missing sausages soooo much (only been on holiday in NZ for a week, not sure if this was a meat eater or German thing!) as they'd found the standard of meat virtually inedible thus far. They pulled out this really long, coiled, ugly looking thing, pricked it all over and popped it on the barbie. They we in really good spirits, singing adn drinking while preparing food to go with the sausage etc. Suddenly the sausage literally turned into a fountain as the hot fat spurted out of the prick marks. It went on and on and on and on....

The German man started bellowing, the woman looked utterly dejected and they abandoned their sausage. I had the misfortune of running into him the next morning outside the shower block and hearing exactly what he thought of NZ produce. I very much doubt they returned :uhoh

From my experience I had to agree with them, we struggled to find things without additives etc, but I always hoped that once living there I'd get to know where to shop better.

[clg]

Avalon, for mayonnaise have you tried best foods, I hear it is the same as (trying to get UK name right here) Heilmans. Best Foods mayonnaise here is the same as in the US, the other mayo here is terrible though.

Chris

[Migueliones15]

what about butchers meat?

[Diny]

I tend to agree with Avalon on the food front. However, I make everything from scratch and shop around for the best 'raw' ingredients on offer. If you're a person who buys alot of ready made meals, supermarket meat, cakes, pies and any other kind of prepared food I think you will find alot of the stuff on offer over here far too sweet, processed and plasticy.

My parents came over here for a couple of months last Christmas, it wasn't long before they decided their holiday mission was to find a decent cake. About one in every ten they tried came up to (their) standard - the rest they claimed were far too sweet, flavourless and highly coloured. They too compared the food over here to food on offer in the USA.

I have to say though, I'm a food lover (obvious by taking one look at me) - and I will fight to my death the right to stand and trumpet the fact that the NZ fish & chips are by a long shot the best in the world. I'm not a great meat lover but tend to buy what meat I do eat from butchers rather than supermarkets. The fish over here is plentiful, fresh and mouthwatering.

The fruit and vegies (depending on where you buy them - but mainly talking supermarkets here) can range from fantastic to downright scrubby. The presentation of off F&V in supermarkets is outstanding, they are stacked beautifully, have complimentary lights shining on them and are constantly sprayed with a fine mist of water to keep them fresh. Sadly there are occasions when you get the fruit into normal daylight and dry them off they fair the wrong side of average ....... but I found that in the UK too.

I make my own cakes, alot of my own bread - I even make my own 'fast food' such as burgers, chicken nuggets and pizzas. Good quality raw ingredients are available, it's just like Avalon says, after a while you get to know where to find them.

Sorry - hijacking this thread a little.

Diny

[Hannah]

hijacking it further...sorry

Diny, I thought it was just me that thought cakes in Nz were too sweet, too dry and over coloured. Would have made my own...but cake tins in the rental property were rusty (a bit like my cooking skills).

Coming back to original question - i'm back in UK at the moment and reflecting on my 7 mths in NZ and really feel that all the things i thought would be a problems (like applying for PR, finding a job, finding friends, kids settling in schools) were NOT and all the things that i thought would be a breeze (me settling and feeling comfortable, being able to shop, being able to cook decent food, understanding the lingo, missing UK) WERE a problem. It was one big wake up call for me when i arrived - i'm as laid back as they come and yet i felt like i was being shaken upside down for the first 2 or 3 months. Once i got over that shock and started to feel more and more at home i realised NZ was the place for me. And back in UK i still feel that. I dont' hate UK, but i've come back and realise that i can live without it. Just need to convince my careful, methodical, risk avoiding other half that we can live without it!!!!

[Avalon]

Still I cook at home for us 6 days a week here and I'll do the same in Wellington so I guess that gives us a certian amount of control even if not so much choice as we have here. I don't think my husband would care one way or another - he'd find one thing he's happy with then eat the same thing every day if I'd let him!
To be honest - once you get used to it - and you know what to look for - it is manageable. Im very used to reading food lables anyway so I know what im looking for. The problem was with meat a lot of the time - because its not clear that there are additives in it till you get it home or try an eat it!

Avalon, for mayonnaise have you tried best foods, I hear it is the same as (trying to get UK name right here) Heilmans. Best Foods mayonnaise here is the same as in the US, the other mayo here is terrible though.

Chris
Yeah - thats the one i use now. Saved my life :laugh

what about butchers meat?

Im not sure what you are asking - but to me its rubbish. Overprocessed, cheap and nasty cuts, and often appalling quality. Apart From Olympic Butchers in Nae Nae who make edible susages and to whom I am eternally grateful. Its a problem for me becuase I too cook from scratch, and if the raw ingredients are bad - the end dish is bad. Does that answer you at all?

[Avalon]

and I will fight to my death the right to stand and trumpet the fact that the NZ fish & chips are by a long shot the best in the world.

Pistols at dawn it is then :laugh

[Avalon]

Sorry about this - but Ive had another thought on this topic (expectations - not food :laugh ).

Something taht occured to me not all that long ago is that I really didnt expect to make the kind of friendships that I have while ive been here. My UK are very dear to me - most of them are still in my life from college and university, and the ones that are still hanging in there despite all that life has thrown at us - are people that I love dearly.

And yet - If I had to go back home - it would be just as much a wrench to leave the friends I have made here in New Zealand, as it was to leave those friends back in the UK. We havent know each other that long - i mean ive been here less that 2 years myself - and yet it would be just as hard to say goodbye if I had to.

I cant explain why I didnt expect this - but I really didnt. Im sure it will make sense to someone :) I guess though that it does show - even though many things did not live "up to" my expectations - there have equally been things that came along and whacked me on the head in the nicest way possible.

Not sure that Helps Kieth at all - but I thought it was worth sharing.

Hxxx

[jubjub]

Av, I am right with you on the food front, its what I would call American too, rather than UK.

Sorry Diny, I prefer UK chups (please dont shoot me), the nice thick ones you get in the chippies, but then again, maybe I just havent had a good NZ one yet we dont have them often?? and not being a fish eater probably does not help!, although I did cook a snapper hubby caught and it was lovely.

I too cook a lot of stuff from scratch, or we have takeaway, I just dont buy supermarket ready meals here at all. Hubby tried a lot of them when he was alone for 6 weeks before I arrived, and did not find one he eat a second time!

Cakes, I make my own mostly, although we have a lovely bakery a few doors up the road, run by Chinese folks, the pies are fab (according to hubby), the odd supermarket cake I buy has been a bit too dry & sweet. Although I can't master scones.....

Just realised I have not answered the original question!! I did not come here with many expectations, I was prepared to just go with the flow and get on with it whatever.

We did buy the kind of house we thought we would get, and in the same area we had done much reading about, I have made a few friends, and I do walk a lot more than I did before, that was also part of the plan (mind you bub is easier to control in his buggy!) I did think we would entertain more, but it was quite hard in the beginning with being preggy then coping with a new bub, but we are getting there.

I dont think I have been disappointed with anything really, apart from the length of the flight, it makes it soo hard to even think of a visit to family again anytime soon! And I do wish our parents would come and visit, but they are just too chicken to do the flight. Hopefully will make it to Oz to see one of my best buddies soon, that should be good.

[clg]

Have to add my .02c on food. As to processed/packaged it is not good in general, but I hated that stuff in the US too. I think part of this is where you shop, quallity in grocery stores tends to vary a lot, you never know. We don't shop much there though so we do fine. I have been very impressed with food quality but we go to specialty stores and pay a bit more, we did the same thing in the US because the markets are not good there either. I will say that a place like Waitrose is much better than a typical supermarket here or in the US so maybe that is what people in the UK are used to? I gave up on supermarkets years ago so it is probaly easier for me. Moore Wilsons covers about 95% of our food needs and then we go to an Asian and Italian market to get strange ingrediants.

As to is this what I expected, pretty much. Less windy then I thought though! It is stonger than I thought but less frequent than I expected.

I have also come to like the isolation, when I read the news and see what is going on it feels nice to be physically removed from it with a government that I can tolerate.

Chris

[Caspar]

Gotta tell u, fish and chips hear is awful in Chch anyhow - any advice for a half decent shop would be great.

Marmite is Ourmate.
Helmans is Best Foods blue jar.
English musterd / Bransons Pickle all here

Where is a good fish shop to buy raw in Chch?

[Diny]

Looks like I'm alone on the fish n chips then (more for me - yay). I just love the way the chips stay crispy, they don't all clump together in a stodgy mass. Also like the way you can choose to have your fish battered or crumbed. The best bit is the way they cook to order - you don't get stuff that's luke warm, soggy and been hanging around half the night.

Yep - IMHO when it comes to the good ol' fish n chips the Kiwis beat the Poms hands down.

2 of the best chippers found so far are in Orewa and Otaki. My sis came out here on holiday, we bought F&C from Orewa and nearly 4 years down the line she'll still talking about them - sad but true !!!

Diny

[RMJ]

Looks like I'm alone on the fish n chips then (more for me - yay). I just love the way the chips stay crispy, they don't all clump together in a stodgy mass. Also like the way you can choose to have your fish battered or crumbed. The best bit is the way they cook to order - you don't get stuff that's luke warm, soggy and been hanging around half the night.

Yep - IMHO when it comes to the good ol' fish n chips the Kiwis beat the Poms hands down.

2 of the best chippers found so far are in Orewa and Otaki. My sis came out here on holiday, we bought F&C from Orewa and nearly 4 years down the line she'll still talking about them - sad but true !!!

Diny

Where is the fish shop in Orewa, ill be there next week so might try them out

[Diny]

Where is the fish shop in Orewa, ill be there next week so might try them out

Sadly I can't give the address, I could possibly take you there but wouldn't be able to direct you ...... I just remember it faced the ocean. Not much help am I?

[Koen]

I think the things I would miss (like mayonaise) are easy made at home. All the rest is simply adapting to what you find.

[Carol]

Looks like I'm alone on the fish n chips then (more for me - yay). Diny


NAh......I'm with you girl.
They are MUCh better here...in the majority of cases.
But if you get a bad one....watch out. They are TERRIBLE!



A goodie......Plimmerton beach.
(next door to Plimmerton cafe)



Fab.


But that's probably because the owners are greek.....
;)

[Singel]

The best fish n chips that we have eaten is at Whakatane, known as FRED fish n chips (opp Pak n Save supermarket)

There are different type of fish that you could choose...............
You could also choose chips and/or kumara...................

Prepare to wait for 1 & 1/2 hrs, the queue is long.........................

:cheers

[Moorf]

Kat posted something about a chippy on Papanui Road in Chch being very good - haven't checked it out yet.

It's been hit and miss here for us but I suppose I was expecting stunning fush & chups as had always heard NZ's were the best - our local chippy in Darfield is disgusting - it's all frozen in batter and dumped in the frier. Neither of the chippies in Sumner were up to much either which really surprised us.

But the Akaroa chippy is the best we've ever tasted, and our local chippy in Chch (North N.Brighton) was fab too - a wheelbarrow of chips and akaroa blue cod for two for under $10.

I've often wondered if the North Island has better and more varied fish than down here (with the exception of Kaikoura!)? Is that so do you think?

[clg]

Don't know SI fish and chips well but in Wellington you can get very good fish and chips in Island Bay, but my favourite is Starfish in Thorndon accross from New World.

[Avalon]

Don't know SI fish and chips well but in Wellington you can get very good fish and chips in Island Bay, but my favourite is Starfish in Thorndon accross from New World.
Urghh! Thats not fish and chips. Its fish n fries! One of the truly disgusting things about NZ fish and chips - fobbing you off with fries. Chips should be chunky and crisp. If I wanted fries - Id be eating in McD's.

Best we found in the city itself was opposite the other New World - But I have a feeling its closed at athe moment - there was a fire next door or something. Not perfect - but nearer proper F+C than starfish.

Koen -

Sometimes adapting isnt as easy as it sounds. If the raw ingredients contain additives that shouldnt be there - its actually a bit hard. Im sure we all do the best we can - but it really can be quite difficult to "adapt" to a new country.

[Diny]

Hey ..... Mr Grumpys at Foxton Beach are pretty good too !! For those of you camping on our section during the summer no doubt you'll find out.

Diny

[herseymusic]

Ok, so this thread has officially turned into:

"Are the fish and chips what you expected?"

;-)

[Avalon]

Ok, so this thread has officially turned into:

"Are the fish and chips what you expected?"

;-)
:D in the last 20 months - what ive discovered above all else is that its always the seemingly little things that make it feel like youve just been clobbered round the head with a big brick :D

[Diny]

:D in the last 20 months - what ive discovered above all else is that its always the seemingly little things that make it feel like youve just been clobbered round the head with a big brick :D


Yet another comment by Avalon that hits the nail directly on the head.

I was having this very same discussion with a forum buddy of mine when we went and did our usual Wednesday lunch date last week. We both agreed that the big things are easy to handle and don't really phase us at all .... but the little things knock us for 6.

The good old gravy debate has had some hammering on this forum, but it's the absence of these little 'comforts' that hit home. Yes you can substitute, adapt and 'make do' ...... but it's human nature to long for the familiar.

As the saying goes ........... every little helps.

Diny

[colindp]

I am finding it very difficult to find vegetarian ready meal alternatives for my son, he is 20 and used to enjoy the huge selection of vegetarian ready meals that are available in the UK.
Over here he has tried Falafel, and the vegetarian sausages of various flavours and all have failed to satisfy. He now lives on Baked Beans, or pasta or if I prepare any thing vege from scratch...Sunday dinners are now a selection of veges and packet gravy (not meat flavoured) and who got the idea of adding bacon to Macaroni cheese, that one has caught us out a few times.....

[colindp]

As for fish 'n' Chips, don't get me started on that one....Part cooked fish is the order of the day here in Dunedin...I get fish form the supermaket and do my own....All thats missing is that good ole chip shop vinegar and pickled onions....YUM!!

[diforsyth]

I should point out first that we didn't come to NZ to try to improve our circumstances, we came for a change of scenery.

We've only been here for 2 weeks - one week sorting stuff out and I've been working for one week. The over-riding feeling is that it feels like a home. As for fish & chips, I hadn't eaten them for nearly 10 years and I absolutely love them here.

Would I do it again....without a shadow of a doubt.

[Trigirl]

I am finding it very difficult to find vegetarian ready meal alternatives for my son, he is 20 and used to enjoy the huge selection of vegetarian ready meals that are available in the UK.
Over here he has tried Falafel, and the vegetarian sausages of various flavours and all have failed to satisfy. He now lives on Baked Beans, or pasta or if I prepare any thing vege from scratch...Sunday dinners are now a selection of veges and packet gravy (not meat flavoured) and who got the idea of adding bacon to Macaroni cheese, that one has caught us out a few times.....

Colin - maybe at 20 years old your son could try learning to cook veggie stuff for himself from scratch??

Ready meals may well be garbage in NZ - but to me they taste like garbage in the UK too so no change there.... and don't even get me started on packet gravy.

Seriously though I hope your son finds some things he likes to eat out there. It must be very frustrating for someone who has decided to live a vegetarian lifestyle to find their choice of foods limited still further.

[Jameelka]

Difficult one to answer at the moment as we have been here less than a month.
The normal things that I expected like the scenery is very pretty,especially around here in Waiuku.
We do find it extremely bright! sounds odd,but even with glasses on it's still very strong!
Food shopping is different! like the cream that was mentioned before! certain things that u took for granted back in the UK,are so different or just not the same!
One thing that has really been quite a shock is the laws with the dogs,where they can and can not go! Mostly can't go! Trying to find some where to take her that we can let her off the lead,apart from the beach is proving extremely difficult.Take her to the park that she is allowed in but has to be on the lead.Can't take her to the shops,dogs are just not allowed that area! Finding this a tough one.Gather this happend a few yrs ago after some dog attacks,and they started to get very strict.
Everyone is very welcoming,asking where we are from and saying welcome to New Zealand which is nice.
Can't think of any more at the mo,sure there will be!
Probably be able to input more in the months ahead,as I said abit too early for us at the mo.
But the dog laws are the ones that i did n't really think too much about before coming to NZ and have been quite shocked at how strict they are,but that's probably another thread to start! Will just have to but eventually some land with the house for her!
Mel :exit

[KerryS]

I must echo Trigirl in being stunned by your 20 year old son. Maybe at 20 he could cook a nutritious meal for himself. Whatever he eats has to be better than a ready meal loaded with salt and sugar and other additives. If you want some easy and nutritious vegetarian meals just mail me - I'd be glad to send some on.

The one thing I don't like is the magazines here. Far too many celeb based gossip mags, and nothing of any substance. I get my friends to send me over their used copies of Eve and Red when they have finished with them. (I could buy them, but I refuse to pay 20 bucks for an imported mag that is already a month old!)
Food wise I don't really miss much. I don't eat prepared foods - I make my own bread, cook most things from scratch (including mayonnaise) and I am now growing veg too. I have turned into Barbara from the Good Life...

Clothes are disappointing. There is no real fashion here. It's all very bland, and over priced and poor quality. I buy work clothes from Cue and occasionally Max. I buy other bits from Moochi, as they are well made. I go to Australia several times a year and tend to buy lots of basics when there in one of the department stores. I miss shoe shops. I used to spend many a lunch hour in London browsing round the multitude of shoe stores - here there is virtually no choice, and everyone wears very bland footwear. I still adjusting to that! Very hard for someone who's been nicknamed Imelda for the last 10 years...

My fave fish and chip shop is in Monganui, real chips, incredibly fresh fish and an idyllic location to eat them sat on the dockside.

All these are superficial things, and overall I couldn't be happier.

[Moorf]

Very hard for someone who's been nicknamed Imelda for the last 10 years...




Here too :D and working just off Kings Road didn't help - in fact all of what you say I could echo (can u PM me your mayo recipe.. inundated with iggs here and if i can save some more cents making my own, I will!)

Does your library hold the new mags? You can get all sorts to borrow in the Chch libraries and recent copies too.

[colindp]

Well I make excuses for the poor kid, a young man who wants to give something to the community by way of working for the Police, Ambulance or Fire Service and can't because he can only have a visitors visa...One of the reasons that we are leaving NZ and going to settle in the USA instead..Sorry that this has not relation to the original subject but it is something that really sticks in my throat......

Mr. Angry of Dunedin......

[KerryS]

Auckland Library are very evil and put new editions of magazines in the "HOT" section, which charges you to take them out. So $2 for a week for a magazine and $5 for a book. And you can't reserve them. The only thing I hate about the library - I love it for most other things.

I don't have my mayo recipe to hand - I use the one from Nigella How To Eat, as it is easily adaptable to add some garlic, saffron, lemon or whatever I have to hand. It's just egg yolks and oil though, so simple. I usually freeze the egg whites for making meringues at a later date.

[Moorf]

Yes, they charge for new ones too in Chch - but $2 isn't toooo bad :) I never keep them if I buy them so it works out.

Off to find my copy of How to Eat...

[Smiler]

My fave fish and chip shop is in Monganui, real chips, incredibly fresh fish and an idyllic location to eat them sat on the dockside.



I think I know the one you mean and the first time we went there I thought I'd died and gone to heaven. :D If I'd never moved from that spot........................... it would have got dark and I'd be lonely. :laugh

The best in welly is Park Road Miramar. Fresh fresh fresh and hot, not frozen battered/crumbed stuff. Proper chips too, not thin strings.

[browner_]

In short, NZ is not what I expected and I wouldnt do it again .
In fact, if I could undo it, I would.

I had been here half a dozen times at least for periods of up to 4months before I emigrated, but living here is very different to coming on holiday.

The PLUSSES are:
- it is cheaper than UK without doubt, in pretty much everything that matters.
- its great place to live if you own a yacht
- you can turn up at the cinema 5 mins before the start and still get in.
- summers are warm and pleasant
- golf courses are brilliant and cheap
- rural NZ is of course remote and beautiful if you have time to get there
- beaches are empty for much of the time and reasonably accessible

But there are plenty of MINUSES.
- For many careers, you will have to work in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and this restricts your ability to get to the nice parts of NZ (particularly from Wellington)
- Housing is pretty crap, unless you have $400,000 to 500,000 or more. Houses are cold in summer, often damp in winter, and have tendencies to leak, rot, fall apart.
- Despite there being only 4 million people, all those people are crowded in the main cities, which doesnt make it seem much different to other countries
- There are hardly any roads, so at peak times the roads are crowded and dangerous and slow
- NZ drivers are bad beyond belief, dangerously so.
- NZ'ers drive the crappiest noisiest cars you have ever heard
- Medical expenses and dentist costs are high (no NHS here)
- at Xmas and New Year (when u take your holidays like everyone else) NZ's resorts (eg Taupo, Tauranga and Paihia) are crowded, loud and not so great unless you are a teenager
- there is just nowhere to go on holiday, once you have seen a few places. You can go to Aussie of course, but after that and Fiji (which is limited) and Rarotonga (which is small), it costs a fortune to get anywhere else. No Easyjet 20 pound flights to Rome from NZ! It feels remote here.
- the culture is, how do I say it, fairly downmarket. More so than I anticipated anyway, as judged from previous holidays.

[Diny]

- the culture is, how do I say it, fairly downmarket. More so than I anticipated anyway, as judged from previous holidays.


What a lovely description !!! One I wholeheartidly agree with.

Diny

[pieeater]

I have to agree with everything you say here Browner.The holidaying at Christmas thing,well we've found that to be a nightmare.We've been on camping holidays i.e.motorcycle touring/campervan for 30 years now all over Europe with few problems but we won't even consider a Christmas break on a campsite here,we have found that people just hit the beach and misbehave,Drunkenness,Fighting,Loud Music,Hooning,Drug using,YUK.

[herseymusic]

With all due respect, Browner, I'll have to disagree with much of your post. Of course, I'm from the States, which is probably one of the more downmarket places in the world, so I'm looking at things from a slightly different perspective.

"- For many careers, you will have to work in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and this restricts your ability to get to the nice parts of NZ (particularly from Wellington)"

This sounds like pretty much every other country in the world, unless you happen to be living in Switzerland. And from Wellington, I can be in the Marlborough Sounds in 20 minutes, and the southern alps at Nelson Lakes or the beaches of Abel Tasman in under two hours. That's pretty convenient to me.


"- Medical expenses and dentist costs are high (no NHS here)"

That'll teach you to not take UK health care for granted, eh? I find medical costs here extremely affordable.


"- there is just nowhere to go on holiday, once you have seen a few places."

Um, you are living in one of the top holiday destinations on the planet. Why not vacation in New Zealand?


"- at Xmas and New Year (when u take your holidays like everyone else) NZ's resorts (eg Taupo, Tauranga and Paihia) are crowded, loud and not so great unless you are a teenager"

This is true, but it's also easy to find an out of the way spot that is nearly deserted at that time of year. If you want to visit the resorts, don't go at Christmas. This is like complaining that Rome is crowded during the height of summer tourist season.


And as for NZ being downmarket, this may be true. But at the same time, you can go on incredibly scenic walks during the day, have lunch at an exquisite vineyard restaurant, and then retire to an immaculate hotel at night in almost every region of the country. People often forget that they are living on a small island at the bottom of the world. And taking this into account, NZ offers an incredible variety of luxury, adventure, and culture.

[Avalon]

"- Medical expenses and dentist costs are high (no NHS here)"

That'll teach you to not take UK health care for granted, eh? I find medical costs here extremely affordable.

I know its been said before - but possibly worth saying again. You do NOT get free medical care in the UK. It costs you part of the 11% of your salary that you pay in NI - whether you use it or not. That can be a considerable sum. Here - you may pay up front, but it could very well work out much cheaper over the long run. Havent a clue as to whether it does for most people, but we have so far spent about $100 on dental and doctors. Compared to a scary amount paid out in NI contributions over the same period.

Have to be honest - im definately in the prefering NZ camp on this one :D

[clg]

Nice post herseymusic

[herseymusic]

Avalon -

Thanks for the info on UK health care. Learn something new every day!

[macs gold]

As for fish 'n' Chips, don't get me started on that one....Part cooked fish is the order of the day here in Dunedin...I get fish form the supermaket and do my own....All thats missing is that good ole chip shop vinegar and pickled onions....YUM!!

The one in Mornington is pretty good, as is the one in Waikouaiti.

[macs gold]

Manganui F&C was OK, but frankly a bit overhyped. The best fish and chips in NZ (well in my experience anyway) are in Akaroa and Havelock.

[Singel]

With all due respect, Browner, I'll have to disagree with much of your post. Of course, I'm from the States, which is probably one of the more downmarket places in the world, so I'm looking at things from a slightly different perspective.

"- For many careers, you will have to work in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and this restricts your ability to get to the nice parts of NZ (particularly from Wellington)"

This sounds like pretty much every other country in the world, unless you happen to be living in Switzerland. And from Wellington, I can be in the Marlborough Sounds in 20 minutes, and the southern alps at Nelson Lakes or the beaches of Abel Tasman in under two hours. That's pretty convenient to me.


"- Medical expenses and dentist costs are high (no NHS here)"

That'll teach you to not take UK health care for granted, eh? I find medical costs here extremely affordable.


"- there is just nowhere to go on holiday, once you have seen a few places."

Um, you are living in one of the top holiday destinations on the planet. Why not vacation in New Zealand?


"- at Xmas and New Year (when u take your holidays like everyone else) NZ's resorts (eg Taupo, Tauranga and Paihia) are crowded, loud and not so great unless you are a teenager"

This is true, but it's also easy to find an out of the way spot that is nearly deserted at that time of year. If you want to visit the resorts, don't go at Christmas. This is like complaining that Rome is crowded during the height of summer tourist season.


And as for NZ being downmarket, this may be true. But at the same time, you can go on incredibly scenic walks during the day, have lunch at an exquisite vineyard restaurant, and then retire to an immaculate hotel at night in almost every region of the country. People often forget that they are living on a small island at the bottom of the world. And taking this into account, NZ offers an incredible variety of luxury, adventure, and culture.
Good post :nice1

[browner_]

"- For many careers, you will have to work in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and this restricts your ability to get to the nice parts of NZ (particularly from Wellington)"

This sounds like pretty much every other country in the world, unless you happen to be living in Switzerland. And from Wellington, I can be in the Marlborough Sounds in 20 minutes, and the southern alps at Nelson Lakes or the beaches of Abel Tasman in under two hours. That's pretty convenient to me.
.

Marlborough Sounds? From Wellington? What do you have - an airplane or a private yacht?
Most of us mere mortals remain crammed in the Hutt Valley or Porirua for 48 weeks a year. If we are lucky, with an hours drive on a Sunday we can get to Foxton and visit the bogans.

[browner_]

"- For many careers, you will have to work in Auckland, Wellington or Christchurch, and this restricts your ability to get to the nice parts of NZ (particularly from Wellington)"

This sounds like pretty much every other country in the world, unless you happen to be living in Switzerland.

Not true of SE England where I come from. A 2 hour drive would take in most of the SE of England, including hundreds of towns and cities and lots of open countryside as well. A 2 hr drive from Wellington might get me to Bulls,via the delights(!) of such desolate places as Waitarere Beach, assuming I actually wanted to go there.

[Caspar]

browner, why don't u just go back to se england or wherever you come from and stop bothering us with your tedious whinging??

[Avalon]

Not true of SE England where I come from. A 2 hour drive would take in most of the SE of England, including hundreds of towns and cities and lots of open countryside as well. A 2 hr drive from Wellington might get me to Bulls,via the delights(!) of such desolate places as Waitarere Beach, assuming I actually wanted to go there.
I have to say that between Welly and Bulls are some absolute gems. You do have to look out the car window though ;)

Seroiusly - Its ok that you dont like it - cant argue with a person's personl tastes; just becuase I like something - doesnt mean you have to. But I do wonder - becasue within 2 hours of wellington you can get to an awful lot of things, with no hoons, and no crowds. Its just not true to say that you cant.

I am a bit confused :confused:

[Avalon]

browner, why don't u just go back to se england or wherever you come from and stop bothering us with your tedious whinging??
Hes voicing an opinion. :nice1 Hes not insulting anyone - so why insult him?

[Diny]

browner, why don't u just go back to se england or wherever you come from and stop bothering us with your tedious whinging??


He's not whinging, he's just telling it how it is for him. I for one don't think he's 'bothering' anybody. This is an open forum for people to say how they feel, to relate to the rest of us how the immigration experience has been for them.

Although my points of view aren't as strong and as 'anti' as Browners', I find myself agreeing with alot he has said.

People need to remember that moving to NZ works for some and not for others. I'm also a great believer that both positive and negative postings are equally as valuable to those looking into making the move over here.

As for telling him his postings are 'tedious whinging' ....... maybe you've logged on to the wrong forum by mistake. You'll find alot of 'lively' discussions taking place here, with some widely opposing opinions, but you won't find any need for down right insulting behaviour.

Onward and upward.

Diny

[Caspar]

ive been here a while now and i'm soo fed up of brits whinging and it is only the brits. there are lots of other nationalitys here and noone whinges like the brits. i just want to screem at all of them to just go back if your particular paradise in wolverhampton of wherever is so good. these kind of people reelly bug me.

[KerryS]

browner, why don't u just go back to se england or wherever you come from and stop bothering us with your tedious whinging??

Although I don't agree with some of Browner's opinions, they are just that - his opinions.
I think it is important to read about the negative aspects and viewpoints of a place, just as much as it is the positive. That way new immigrants aren't attracted with rose-coloured spectacles into a land of milk and honey, they are aware of the pitfalls and hurdles they may encounter along the way.

Maybe I'm often a little too positive about NZ. I do love it here, and I can see that there are negative aspects. Some people are going to have to face up to the difficulties of living here, others will have an easier ride. Life is what you make it - but if you have help to improve it, then so much the better in my opinion.

[pieeater]

I agree with Diny here.Browner has a Right and also perhaps a Duty to let prospective migrants know what to expect from the move to N.Z.And that it's perhaps O.K. to not like it here in N.Z.many don't.Also, it can help people cope to let a bit of steam off on this forum,I know it's helped me!.

[clg]

I agree that anyone/everyone should be able to state their views here. The good and bad information is very helpful for those thinking about making a move. I have not liked Browner's posts not because they are negative but because I feel they don't match up well with what I have experienced. I don't hear many loud cars, don't see p addicts and gang members and I find there is a lot do to within 1 hour of Wellington but it may well be we want to do different things. But then, that is my opinion and we may well disagree. What I think bothers me the most though is that I don't like hearing a lot of negatives with a resignation that nothing can be done. If I did not like it here, I would find a way to move. Life is too short to be unsatisfied with your situation.

It is easy to put on the rose coloured glasses when thinking about moving or thinking about what life was like before you moved. The trick is learning to take them off and see things as they are or were.

Chris

[Diny]

these kind of people reelly bug me.

Hey - chill out. One man's meat is another man's poison. A very wise person said on this forum a while back ....'it's OK not to love everything about NZ'. How true is that.

I find alot of things about NZ don't even come close to what we had in the UK, other things are way better.

Different strokes for different folks - live and let live. We may not agree with others opinions but we should fight for their right to voice them.

Diny