[dean1968]

I wish to share with you my knowledge of the NZ housing market. The good, the bad and the ugly. NZ houses have many problems in general. The worst type are flat roofs, stucco or monolithic cladding, usually plaster type houses with no eaves (no edge) so the rain / water runs down the side of the house wall.

I work in a modern building less than 7 years old and the building has a major design flaw so that the water / rain runs down the side of the wall. Concrete absorbs moisture so imagine what other types of materials described above have had to put up with. Whereby the water / moisture was leaking from the concrete walls and slowing moving down the beams inside the building on the ground floor. They have to bore holes in the ceiling to get the water out. I imagine if they didn’t do this then someday the cement pillars might not take the load and the building would probably collapse. That is a true story which highlights what has is going on with the building industry and it just the tip of the iceberg. Other cases with flat roofs and heavy rain / snow yes it does snow in NZ leaking from the roof. Now you get some ideal what must be going in the NZ residential market. People are not gonna scream from the top of their houses that they have a white elephant.

In the last 10-15 years the Mediterranean look has been in for NZ. The Mediterranean look is a very flashy term for a flat roof and no eaves. It saves money and cuts down on costs. This has been a disaster in NZ. NZ rains and it rains a lot. If you want the Spanish / Mediterranean look don’t built or buy that type of house in NZ. Mediterranean type apartments in the inner cities are the trendiest and hottest selling item at moment. Many of the present owners who aren’t in denial, are trying to get rid of them on unsuspecting buyers like new migrants or seeking compensation through the judicial courts; taking out million dollar lawsuits against the builder/architect or council, some without success as the company goes into liquidation. We have rain a lot of rain and those type of houses are a poor substitute for NZ weather conditions. The jury is still out on monolithic / stucco cladding type houses but so far it is not looking good.

Two main reasons have been identified for causing rot – use of untreated timber in construction and use of heavy insulation in walls to save energy.

“Heavy insulation has resulted in the closing of any air gaps within the wall and because there are no longer any gaps, the moisture that exists in the wall is unable to circulate and exit. This leads to an environment that encourages mould and fungus growth and therefore the rotting of wood.

Not only do you have leaks you have the time bomb of mould and fungus growing inside the cavity of the wall so long term your health suffers.

You may have heard of German craftsmanship / manufacturing / engineering? Germany tends to export a lot of stuff to other countries because of German precision.

I have not heard that said about NZ. You might hear this expression instead said about NZ. “Number 8 fencing wire mentality" - the idea that you could give a Kiwi (New Zealander a piece of Number 8 Fencing Wire (a standard size commonly used to fence sheep paddocks) and they could fix anything from a broken pump to a tractor engine.

In NZ an apprenticeship does not exit. Anyone can call themselves a Doctor in NZ and you can just about call yourself anything else like a house builder etc as well without any qualifications. The NZ government is trying to address that problem and they are starting to introduce regulations; so in the next decade you mighthave to be a registered house builder not just some cowboy who can call himself a house builder. Why have they done this? To eliminate some of the short cuts in the industry and cost cutting measures that save money but in the long run have been a disaster for house buyers with poorly built homes.

I am not naming names in this country because it is called defamation and I will get sued into bankruptcy. Without naming names one house builder has 50 lawsuits pending. You get what you pay for. The people I have spoken too have told it to me like this. The home buyers are currently unhappy with the quality of workmanship. What tends to happen is the house builder will screw down costs to get the contract. The person they are gonna screw when they build your house is the builder and all the tradesmen working on the project, so eventually they have to cut corners etc to get the job done under budget. Which reminds me of a big Supermarket chain trying to do the same and screw the workers, to pass on the low costs to the consumer. My advice don’t always go for the biggest or the cheapest. Shop around and get referrals. Speak to people who have build their house with the company etc.


The quality and craftsmanship of NZ houses leaves a lot to be desired. There are many problems with NZ houses in general. I just want to warn potential new buyers.

I want to warn people about buying NZ residential houses so they avoid the pitfalls and what they should watch out for when buying something that could be potentially hazardous to your health.

Houses built prior to 1970 did not have to be insulated.
Living in a house that is below 16°C (the World Health Organization recommended minimum for a living room) can lead to ill health and long-term health problems. Household air temperature should ideally be between 20 and 24oC, and not drop below 18°C, but New Zealand homes are often much colder than this. When temperatures drop below 16°C, levels of condensation, mould and mildew increase, resulting in an increased risk of respiratory diseases.

300,000-400,0000 houses build in NZ are poorly insulated and don’t meet the recommended 16°C (the World Health Organization recommended minimum for a living room. That means a lot wasted money in heated energy trying to keep your house warm especially in winter. Leaky Building Syndrome iss the least of your worries if your house is barely warm. People from many countries have said the same thing. NZ houses are cold, draughty and usually condensation not far behind their list.

I have been informed that houses build in the 1960’s by Housing NZ a government agency set up to build affordable houses for low income earners are in high demand. These houses are solid, reliable and well build, the type of houses that they are slowly going back to building. Arched roofs, trusses, with eaves where the water doesn’t going down the sides of the walls maybe old fashioned in design and materials but typically are the most dependable and suited for NZ's extreme weather conditions.

[pieeater]

What a great post.

[Angie and Mick]

Great post, I am going to get my oH to read it as his memory is better than mine, then again I think I will print it. Getting the right house when we evenutaly move is top of my priority.

Thank you for the post.

[PaulJ]

Great post, sound like there is more bad and ugly than good in NZ housing. I am thinking about spending a month or two in NZ soon to activate my visa and do a reccy trip.

Housing is one of the areas I want to check out and information posted here is a great help. Would appreciate any advice on what to look out for when inspecting a built home, or for a building under construction.

The quality of housing in UK has been declining in recent years and thought standard was poor here, but seems standard in NZ is much lower. I really feel for the poor buyers having to deal with this, must be very traumatic.

Regards,
Paul.

[Singel]

Excellent post :nice1

[Nienke]

Thanks Dean!

[Diny]

Very good post. Especially relate to the bit about the builders. We are looking around for a reputable firm to build the extension on our house ..................I'll let you know if we're ever successful. The words needle and haystack spring to mind.

Diny

[Bean]

Hi Dean

Thats very interesting, and pretty much confirms what we found when we were there. Me thinks we will be buying a section and building our own.....if we ever finish the one we are building here..........

Cheers

Bean

[John Z]

Hi Dean,

Great post! As an architectural and industrial designer myself I was already asking myself what the story of "typical" NZ houses would be. Of course it's not for all houses, but at least you've pointed out some pitfalls.

As with flat roofs: I studied Frank Lloyd Wright in depth and about the only bad thing about his houses are the ones with flat roofs, the Usonian-design. Flat roofs leak a lot (in general) and there's a general problem with air-flow, condensation hits the roof and just sits there, too long. I don't design in the Frank Lloyd Wright "style" ("Never design in A style, but design with style") though.

There are some companies in NZ selling very cheap new houses, kind of bach-like, of which I'm thinking to contact. Before moving to NZ I already made a design for the kind of house I think would match my family and NZ, very high quality bach-style I'd say :laugh Can't wait to see it standing... :raebanana Dealing with "water" of any kind is standard in designing houses in the Netherlands, so from your story it probably would take some effort to get the message (how to make the perfect mix "comfort + cost + quality + simplicity + beauty + great result" through to building companies in NZ?
Or isn't it that bad ;) and are there companies (any names?) that you think of who would be open to innovative building techniques?
I read there will be some kind of licensing for all builders/designers within the next year (or 2) so that should improve the overall quality of houses?

Cheers for now, John.

[Al_S]

I read your note with great interest. My first degree is in Civil Engineering though I do not work as one. Houses in Canada are generally well built and so they have to be, due to the type of weather we have. But we did have a lot of issues on the West coast when poorly built condos in BC were found to be leaking and seeping water. Your post will no doubt help those who read this forum and are in the hosuing market in NZ. Many thanks for such an informative post.
Al

[lynchpin]

Anyone can call themselves a Doctor in NZ and you can just about call yourself anything else like a house builder etc as well without any qualifications.
anyone can call themselves a doctor anywhere in the world. to practice as a medical doctor in new zealand you do need qualifications. i don't know where you learned otherwise.

[Blakie]

Well hey if Dean1968’s post is anything to go by then new soon-to-be-arrivals to NZ better bring tents. Oh and definitely bring wellies and brollies. How is your knowledge qualified Dean1968? Was it gleaned from a very old press article or two found lying in the waiting room of your doctor (qualified I hope)?

The NZ house-building industry has taken a very bad rap over the last few years – justifiably with regards to the Leaky Building Syndrome. I feel it is unfair for it to cop more seemingly regurgitated blight and I would like share some of my ‘knowledge’ with those of you who have quickly categorised the first posting as ‘good’.

Four years ago I researched the Leaky Buildings saga as part of an honours dissertation for my degree.

Water has run down the side of concrete, brick and stone surfaces since humans starting erecting shelter. It is not the small amount of absorption of water by masonry surfaces that causes problems but the ingress of water into the building via openings and penetrations of the building’s façade.

Dean1968, do you know if the building you work in is constructed solidly from concrete? Or is it a combination of a timber or steel framework inner with a concrete block, brick or concrete panel cladding, with a perhaps a cement render? The structural support for a building is usually referred to as the framework and beams are generally individual load-bearing, supporting components.

I think the bulk of the iceberg referred to has been exposed since the tip reared its ominous head 5 or more years ago. At that time it became obvious that there was an un-concealable crisis looming in the NZ building industry - referred to in NZ as “Leaky Building Syndrome” closely linked with “Toxic Rot Crisis”. i.e. building leaks, timber frame rots, mould spores from rotting frame causes health scares, building becomes structurally unstable. This problem was not confined to NZ as at the same time it was happening in the States and Canada.

Traditionally NZ house builder’s workmanship in New Zealand was of a very good standard. A young couple would purchase a ‘section’ (21 perches) find a builder who would more often than not be able to produce house plans, a layout and a price was agreed and work would start. NZ house-builders generally took pride in their work and insurance backed guarantees were un-invented. If something needed fixing a measure of goodwill existed whereby the builder would come back to put it right. Okay so those days are pretty much gone and its a good job that any builder worth his salt will align him or herself to a professional industry-related association who can vet credentials and guarantee that tradesman’s work – oh yes and he pays heavily for the privilege too.

In the mid-1980’s as a result in the rising timber costs of weatherboarding and the development of new technologies in house cladding, came the advent of the Mediterranean or ‘Hacienda’ style house, often clad with monolithic or stucco rendered panels. Like haciendas these houses/buildings often had no eaves and flat roofs. As properties became smaller but owners still wanted to enjoy the outdoors, balconies became a feature, as did, I am also sad to say, ‘faux’ beams fixed to the façade.

The structural support for these balconies and faux beams were often fixed back onto the building’s framework thus penetrating the cladding. Naturally water running down the face of the buildings would enter any penetration where the flashing had been poorly installed or omitted altogether. The problem was not caused by balconies alone but also at wall/window/door junctions where flashings had failed.

Once water got behind the cladding it would be absorbed by the timber frame and it would appear that many (not all) of these frameworks were of untreated timber (another debate). When timber is damp or wet it is highly prone to insect or mould attack – in the case of the Leaky Home scenario the mould got to it first.

Let’s get one thing straight – insulation does not cause rot – constant damp does. However, insulated but unventilated areas will provide an ideal warm environment for the growth of mould or fungus, combined with moisture from either water ingress or from daily occupancy. It is the mould or the fungus which breaks down the celulose in the timber.

The jury is still out on monolithic cladding? Hence my querying the up-to-dateness of Dean1968’s information. I think it could be safely said that the conclusion on monolithic cladding was that it obviously didn’t work! It is not just the cladding panels alone that caused the problems. Other factors contributed, such as a combination of the panel to panel joints, incorrect installation of flashings, lack of breathable membranes, lack of eaves, lack of ventilation cavities behind cladding, a change in design styles involving penetrations to façades and new technologies being developed faster than the tradesman on site could keep up with them.

Now what have the Germans got to do with anything? Whatever you do don’t mention the war! What sort of ‘stuff’ do the Germans export in terms of house-building products to NZ? China exports a lot of ‘stuff’ to other countries also, some of that is not of brilliant quality. Pick up a relevant trade journal both in NZ or in the UK you will see quite a few products which have been developed in NZ for the worldwide building industry. One such product which is being used more widely in the UK is natural sheeps wool insulation. The UK are now producing their own but the idea and the original product came from NZ.

A Kiwi can fix anything with a bit of No. 8 fencing wire!!! And we’re proud of it. Hooray, 3 cheers for Kiwi ingenuity. Necessity is the mother of all invention.

In the early 1980’s, partly due to an economic recession, apprenticeships went by the way. The NZ government has more than acknowledged that there is now a shortage of skilled construction workers. Many skilled migrants benefit from this publicised skills shortage. In 2000 the NZ Executive Tertiary Education set up the Modern Apprenticeship Programme Pilot Scheme which has produced increasing numbers of graduates to this day, the most significant numbers being in Building and Construction.

Oh by the way, with experience of living and working in Australia, UK, New Zealand and France let me tell you that cowboys thrive in all of these countries. IMOH the UK has the least systems in place for registration of tradesman (other than say gasfitters). France, well you’re supposed to be registered by law, which you’d think would be a good thing but as we say here – those expat Brits that step off the cross channel ferries – well one half sell property, the rest have just completed a course in building through P&O City and Guilds.

Builder screwing down costs? Could it be client’s always wanting cheap, cheaper and cheapest nowadays? Builders being screwed – yep that’s the same world over.

Yes there have been problems with houses built in New Zealand – it’s well publicised. So surely now’s the safest time to buy a house in terms of knowing what your getting for your dollars. What would many of you do before buying a house in the UK? Get a homebuyer’s survey done I’m sure. There are plenty of qualified professionals in NZ who can carry out such a survey. So if we’re being warned about buying NZ residential houses (I thought all houses were residences) what would anybody suggest we do buy? A modular prefab shipped over from Germany?

Taken from: www.travel-new-zealand.co.uk because it says it perfectly “NZ is in the Southern Hemisphere, which of course means mid summer is at Christmas time while mid winter is June/July. The climate is oceanic temperate. Given the small land mass relative to the expanse of ocean around NZ, the seasonal variations in NZ weather are lesser than mainland Europe. In general terms NZ’s climate equates to France / North West Spain / Portugal.”

NZ, like any other country, experiences its extremes of weather from time to time. NZ also experiences earthquakes and this has been factored into the country’s building process for eons. Because of this latest blip to the industry the NZ government and the NZ building industry have already taken great steps to tighten, regulate and enforce building controls and they are making progress. Albeit with the grudging acknowledgement of those who have had it easy for so long and don’t want to be bothered with the extra red-tape. As from next year tradesmen will have to be registered. In the long run these measures will go a long way to save those in the future from the heartache of losing one of the biggest investments of their lives.

Please don’t come to NZ worried about what you may or may not be purchasing in terms of a home. The country holds a small population and therefore new systems can be implemented quickly. Houses do look different in NZ, be prepared for this. Its a personal opinion thing really as when I first went to the UK in 1991 I thought all the joined-up red-brick houses were ghastly, until I owned one myself and then it wasn’t so bad – bit overheated though!!

Well that’s it, raw-nerve salved, off the soap box.


"Knowledge and timber shouldn't be much used till they are seasoned." - Oliver Wendall Holmes, 1858

[clg]

Nice post Blakie! Leaky building as an issue here is well know, getting a house checked before you buy it will turn it up so it should not surpise you if you are prepared. The biggest issue is, IMHO, lack of heating not how houses are built. If you add centeral heat to a house dampness, cold, etc all go away very quickly.

[KerryS]

I was so glad to get to the second page of this topic and see that someone had some sense.
I can appreciate that Dean was possibly only trying to inform potential immigrants about some of the problems that can be encountered with Kiwi buildings, but his style of writing and lack of cited information really are awful.

I had to laugh at his reference to No8 wire - a symbol of Kiwi ingenuity from the times of the first settlers - being applied to the leaky building problem. I applaud the No8 wire mentality.

The laughable statement about anyone calling themself a doctor - well, I think lynchpin has already noted this. Of course, you can call yourself whatever you want, the fact is you can't practice medicine in NZ without a licence. You can't get a licence to practive medicine without full training.

Anyone who has a concern about buying a home in NZ should get a survey carried out, the same as they would if buying in the UK, US or in Europe.

[Caspar]

Great post, Blakie!
Dean1968, I've wiped my babys bum with more informative and balanced articles than what you've wrote.
I dont get this place - if ever anyone posts anything about how crap NZ is everyone congrtulates them, even if they know nothing about it. If anyone has anything good to say then there accused of just not being realistic.
It reminds me why i wanted to leave uk in the first place - full of whinging poms!!

[Moorf]

Nice to see a balance, there's great houses and crap houses, just like anywhere. I think we are spoilt in the UK, and overheated !!

Casper you sure have a way with words :laugh

[Blakie]

Caspar, you're a man after my own heart ....

and that's saying something coming from a girlie!

[Paul]

At the end of the day there are plenty of opinions and information regarding quality of housing within this thread (and previous threads) so can only be good for us wannabe immigrants!
Do kind of feel the original poster has been jumped on though, the message behind what he was saying appears valid even if details aren't!

[Blakie]

Thanks Clg and your honest opinion is noted - a question for you though....

.... what happens to that heat when you heat a badly built, poorly insulated house?

I think you'll find the problems are still there but perhaps you'll be nice and warm while you resolve them.

Paul, yes original poster was jumped on a bit and I did feel the slightest twinge of remorse until I recalled the slur on Kiwis re the No. 8 fencing wire (well I think it was a slur, the composition style clouded it a bit).

The initial response to that post recieved some acclaim, the 2nd page to this thread added a balance as KerryS and Moorf pointed out.

[wilson182]

I dont get this place - if ever anyone posts anything about how crap NZ is everyone congrtulates them, even if they know nothing about it. If anyone has anything good to say then there accused of just not being realistic.


I kinda agree with this bit......

[able]

Do kind of feel the original poster has been jumped on though, the message behind what he was saying appears valid even if details aren't!
Hm, I'll respectfully disagree Paul. I'm glad to see the original poster has been contradicted by more knowledgeable contributors. I'm researching moving to NZ. While I appreciate that opinions will vary, I think the "factual" details are very important. I don't want to find that I've been misled by posts made by people who are disaffected and who use incorrect "facts" to back up their assertions. So by all means people should point out the bad things but I'd appreciate it if they got their facts right. So thanks to the people on page 2 who have balanced the "great post" that started this thread.

[Avalon]

Ive said good things about New Zealand and Bad things about new Zealand.

Ive not been jumped on for either :confused: Sometimes get jumped on for the way I said it mind you :laugh

[clg]

Blakie,

Have to admit I am used to houses built like they are here, our house in LA had no insulation and no heat either. We added both. Our house here has insulation so not too bad too heat after we added that. You can add insulation to to an attic fairly easily, walls are another story but the attic gets the best ROI.

I don't really buy into the houses are not well built here (other than leaky ones). Older houses lack insulation but that was the era, same as in some areas of the US. I am impressed with how well built our house is. It was built in the mid 70's. The framing is much thicker, and there is more of it than a house in the US. The exterior has a layer of brick or wood cladding but under that is a layer of weather board and then insuation. Our biggest heat loss comes from having valuted ceilings with no insulation in the roof, but there are two layers of thick wood which helps. The double layer surpsied me, my parents old house in the US had a simmilar ceiling with a single layer of wood. We are going to paint our roof a darker colour so I will be curious to see if that makes any difference, it is pale yellow now so I am guessing it reflects heat. I have seen other houses like this built in the 70's so I don't think our place is that atypical.

I think being used to this type of construction makes it easier for me coming from an eathquake prone place. NZ modeled some of its housing based on the 'california bungalow' so you can see strong influence in how houses are built here vs. the US. If you are used to brick buildings (which I see as earthquake death traps!) I can see how this would be a big adjustment though.

When we looked at houses we were keying in on something we could heat well so that was a concern for us. The old character houses I think are actually built very well, but they need much more insulation, caulking, etc to make them warmer and that is expensive (at least the walls). We were not looking for that big of a project. On the flipside, if you tried to build a house with as much wood in it today as the character places here it would cost a fortune.

Chris



Thanks Clg and your honest opinion is noted - a question for you though....

.... what happens to that heat when you heat a badly built, poorly insulated house?

I think you'll find the problems are still there but perhaps you'll be nice and warm while you resolve them.

Paul, yes original poster was jumped on a bit and I did feel the slightest twinge of remorse until I recalled the slur on Kiwis re the No. 8 fencing wire (well I think it was a slur, the composition style clouded it a bit).

The initial response to that post recieved some acclaim, the 2nd page to this thread added a balance as KerryS and Moorf pointed out.

[dean1968]

Fact. New Zealand has the second highest asthma rate in the world after the UK; more than 800,000 Kiwis suffer from asthma or other respiratory illnesses. New Zealand's high incidence of asthma is often blamed on the lack of insulation in homes. An estimated 600,000 New Zealand homes do not have adequate insulation. Cold damp homes have been found to directly affect the incidence of asthma in New Zealand. Making sure that homes are warm and dry by adequately insulating them will help reduce the incidence of asthma. Research by the Wellington School of Medicine concluded that dampness and overcrowding are linked to serious and growing health problems in New Zealand. As well, various construction and design factors can play a significant part in creating a healthy and supportive environment, or not. The cold and damp conditions are the perfect breeding ground for mould and dust mites, which exacerbate asthma.

Fact. Before 1978, insulation was not mandatory. So if your home is more than 25 years old, chances are it’s not insulated. Even after 1978 a lot of insulation was below the current New Zealand Energy Efficiency Standard (in the New Zealand Building Code). Insulation and damp proofing helps combat specific health problems which are partly caused by damp, draughty, cold houses.

The benefits of warming up your home and avoiding asthma. http://www.procare.co.nz/index.cfm?fuseaction=newstemplate&recordid=1261&issueID=45

Fact. Half the 15,000 to 40,000 rotting homes are in Auckland City and are behind the huge rise in legal claims against the Auckland City Council which have more than tripled from $57 million to nearly $200 million in 12 months for leaky building syndrome.

Fact. New Zealand's biggest terraced housing developer, Taradale, faces a multimillion-dollar lawsuit and repairs to more than 350 homes at four of its largest sites.

Fact. The parties you would think that are primarily responsible - the developers, builders, architects and subcontractor" - have wound themselves up to protect themselves.

Fact. There is little doubt that the state houses (housing Nz homes build by the government for affordable first home buyers of the 1930s and 40s raised the standard of housing in New Zealand. At the height of the leaky buildings crisis, bidders had been prepared to pay big bucks for the knowledge that when they went to sleep at night the roof would keep out the rain. Real estate agents reported that there was a surge back to houses that were “solid and built meticulously by tradesmen”. Attitudes had changed – “ex-state houses were coming into their own”. The humble, hipped roof state house had become hip.

Please don't tell me there is nothing wrong with the state of Nz houses.
If you have a good sob story you can win $20,000 in repairs
http://www.renovationdisasters.co.nz/

What to look out for:
Condensation is when water collects on your
windows because there is lots of moisture in your home and it is very cold outside. In
the mornings you will see that your windows are covered with condensation and
sometimes the water will be dripping onto your windowsills.
The first thing you should do is dry your windows and windowsills.
There are different ways to do this. Some people wipe the windows
with cloths or old towels. Some people use folded newspapers to soak up the water.
Many people open the windows to let some fresh air in. It is important to do this
otherwise your house will stay cold and damp.

Some good photos of moisture content problems

http://www.inspect.co.nz/ground.htm


Inspectors miss dodgy houses, says Consumers' Institute watchdog

http://subs.nzherald.co.nz/feature/story.cfm?c_id=562&ObjectID=10395123

[ENZ]

Here's a list of asthma rates for adults around the world:

1. Wales
2. Australia
3. Scotland
4. Republic of Ireland
5. Canada
6. Estonia
7. New Zealand
8. United States
9. England
10. Malta
11. Norway
12. Denmark
13. Spain


The full list is here:

http://www.asthmamonitoring.org/asthma_aust05_html/Figures/Figure%203p3.htm

Take your pick regarding the common factor, although I'd be hard pushed to say that it was housing. There seems to be a much better correlation with the "cause" being "English speaking country".

[KerryS]

Dean - please could you provide the sources of your 'facts'.

This, for example:

Please don't tell me there is nothing wrong with the state of Nz houses.
If you have a good sob story you can win $20,000 in repairs
http://www.renovationdisasters.co.nz/


Is just a DIY S.O.S situation. Nothing to do with poor quality of building.

[clg]

Dean,

As you point out there are two things 'wrong' with NZ houses. 1) Leaky building syndrome, hardly an unknown issue here and 2) older houses are not built with insulation. Don't think either of those should come as a surpise to people who visit this forum on a regular basis or live in NZ. Item one is much more serious in my book but is also very well known and avoidable. Item one is also an issue in Canada and the US so it is not a NZ thing but a building technique exported from North America. Item two is hardly limited to NZ. The same things applies to the west coast of the US (maybe Canada but I don't know for sure I suspect it though) where houses are/were built in a simmilar way for earthquake reasons, earthquakes were here before insulation. I suspect housing in the UK/Europe is not so much insulated but built with a lot of masonry which holds heat in better so insulation is not as important. Masonry does not work everywhere.

On Asthma, there has never been a single cause established there are things associated with it though. The two major factors are family history and smoking durring pregnancy:

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/Asthma/Asthma_Causes.html

http://www.asthma.org.uk/all_about_asthma/asthma_basics/what_causes.html

You seem determined to bash housing here and if you own a leaky home I can imagine why you would be doing that! The information you are posting is at a minimum misleading so I feel a need to clarify those points.

Chris
Typing away in my well built 1975 house.

[pieeater]

People come and go on this forum all the time so may not have seen some previous articles on subjects they raise.Seems to me that Dean was just trying to warn new migrants of possible pitfalls,that's how I saw it anyhow,and for that I commend him.There will be people on here with superior knowledge in certain aspects and his post has prompted them to supply it,another plus in my book.I've obviously been classed as one of the dissafected by some,based only on scant information found on this Forum.Interesting.There do seem to be some quite aggressive souls on this forum with axes to grind.Something good,my 15 yr old son has just had a Knee reconstruction following a serious Rugby injury,no complaints whatsoever,fantastic treatment.Something bad,the cat's just killed a Fantail.

[Trigirl]

pieeater - my best wishes to your son. i had reconstructive surgery on my knee after a torn ACL playing rugby in 1997. much much physio later and i had a fully working knee again. i even played rugby again for a while. but i remember the physio being pretty awful. painful and often depressing as progress was so slow and sometimes quite erratic. it gets easier though and was so worth it.

i'm 32 now and a bit old for rugby. but i completed an ironman triathlon this year and my knee gave me no more trouble than the other one. astonishing how well the human body heals. there were times when i felt it was really unlikely that i'd ever even run again never mind manage an ironman.

i wish your son all the best through physio and hope he makes as full a recovery as i did.

mandy

[pieeater]

Thanks,for the encouragement Trigirl it's not been an easy two years waiting for him to stop growing before they could operate,teen boy with energy to burn aaarrhhh!.

[dean1968]

This will be my last post on the subject and then I am retiring permanently. I have got better things to do. I don’t mind constructive criticism at all in a healthy debate. People can make informed decisions by themselves if I am talking crap. The tall poppy syndrome is a term used in New Zealand to describe what is seen as a levelling social attitude. Someone is said to be suffering from tall poppy syndrome when their assumption of a higher economic, social or political position attracts criticism, being perceived as presumptuous, attention seeking or without merit.

My topic was aimed to help new migrants and to avoid some common pitfalls with buying property in NZ. There was a topic about where is the best place live in NZ. The last thing I would tell any new migrant.:-)) I am quite happy that the majority of new migrants prefer to live in the Auckland Region ha….ha...ha with the infrastructure stressed to the limit and they have not priced other areas in NZ out of existence.

This is the situation. 80 percent of the new migrants land and live in the Auckland Region and I wanted to alleviate some of the pitfalls involved in buying property. My migrate friend said he wish he knew what he knew before he bought his property in NZ. He bought a property, which was a dog with fleas.

New migrants are the root cause of the problem. Demand has outstripped housing supply. Prices must rise as result; basic economics 101 and thanks to you… the new migrants have out priced the buying power of the average New Zealander to buy his or her own home. Ownership is dropping in this country. I can’t remember the stats but the average price of property 20 years ago was 3 x average salary. I think today it is 7 or more like 13 x average salary out or reach for the typical New Zealander. Our housing stock is old so it is up to the new migrants to address the problem and buy and build their own home.

My migrant friend said to me, “Should I go and buy and old house in an expensive suburb or buy my own section and build” and I said, “Build it, they will come!”. He knew nothing about property and didn’t previous own property. In Europe he told me he live in an average apartment about 70 square metres, he could hear his neighbours going for a leak and showering and just removing the rubbish was a challenge including doing the laundry. I told him some of things he mentioned are not uncommon here in NZ with apartments/flats 2 or more built together with paper thin walls. Having a good set of earplugs to put up with noisy lovemaking from your neighbours is a must.So I gave him a crash course on NZ housing market. Telling him our housing stock is old. Watching and avoiding lead paint houses, asbestos and formaldehyde all now banned today and still hazardous to your health, which was the norm with older houses. You can’t avoid but at least you can minimise the risk. The health department recommends running your taps at least 30 seconds for drinking water especially with older homes having metal pipes and therefore now corrosive.

Then I told him about my experiences living in some of our NZ houses after he gave me the lowdown on his native country. I have been a landlord and have owned and bought several or more properties at the same time.

So here we go.. a crash course in property buying. Buying the property / section that is north facing to catch the sun. Remember the sunny side for the Southern Hemisphere is facing North. That is why they command a premium. Some of the houses I bought were as cold as hell due to the fact that either no sun or surrounded by 2 story houses that got no sun. There was a high turnover of tenants and surveys indicate that you have a higher turnover with cold houses. Other problems to watch for borer. Damp, humid areas create ideal conditions for borer attacks. Most districts of New Zealand provide the perfect climate for borer. Look for holes in the wood. Borer prefer the cooler damper areas where the relative humidity is higher. When it is really bad the house will give off a musty smell and have experienced and witness the ceiling collapse. DIY = do-it-yourself kiwi style electrical wiring, plumbing in old houses you gotta watch. I have had houses where the circuit cuts out can’t handle the load of appliances all because the electrical wiring was a shambles. In NZ you can DIY = do-it-yourself for electrical wiring, plumbing just about anything as long as you get it certified. A typical short cut and who is to say that it has been certified? I have seen everything and nothing surprises me. Another thing to watch in new homes is downlights. IF you can, try to get halogens. IF you have been reading about power blackouts in NZ the grid is under pressure. So what tends to happen you get a power surge which is not uncommon. In Europe and USA your wattages is a lot lower, our wattage system is like 240 watts one of the highest in the world which is absurd. Your downlights will blow because of the power surge and don’t last as long because our aging electrical power grid is a fiasco. IF you get halogens expecially in a new home and they are on low watt that can take the surge. Anyway that s what a good electrican told me.Another big no no avoid water. I live in house surrounded by two streams in a valley that had mist in the morning and a reserve on the back with strong southernly Antarctic winds. The house was freezing cold. The rooms were always damp and cold and my partner got pneumonia. In a typical house in NZ if you are lucky you might have cement slab. What happens moisture / water from the streams and living on the hill naturally seeps underneath the house. When the house is warm inside moisture rises from the cement slab and as a result damp cold draughty house. To combat that you need polystyrene in the cement when you build. Recommended which acts as a thermal insulation. It is not mandatory in the NZ building code. It as a must for places with high water levels, places like Christchurch which are living on a swamp land. Any good real estate agent will tell you to avoid water. Especially houses on the back of the river /streams Water rats love to burrow in at winter time when it is cold and snuggle up in your nice new home. Believe me they will eat anything, including the electrical wiring of your house if they have to.You need a lim report an absolute must before you buy anything anywhere in NZ.I would also recommend a soil sample report. People say it costs too much money blah blah. Don’t be a fool. IT will alert you to any problems. I can think of some dubious irresponsible councils. Auckland City Council would top the list. The councillors are usually business men / property developer’s with their own invested private interests; private companies reaping the benefits of fat contracts etc. The Auckland City council has allowed property developers to build residential suburbs on former waste dumps. Some of them include former asbestos sites and the soil is so contaminated it is hazardous to your children’s health. Not recommended to play with the soil. Other cases include former rubbish tip sites that not only do you have a methane problem as waste decomposes but soil subsidence. There is a endless list I can think of formaldehyde from timber saw mills. There are heaps of oil spillage and chemical spills etc. Get the lim report. Even former apple orchards did a lot of pesticide spraying like DDT etc in the 1960s that is still contaminated the soil.One council allowed a lot of housing development on a hill. Many of the houses are now condemned because of simple land erosion.Double glazing has become mandatory for new homes in the South Island and upper North Island and not all double glazing is the same. I have seen paper thin double glazing that doesn’t cut it. Another home I live in had stucco plaster tile clad roof. Moss usually grows on the roofs. If you look inside the roof you can see outside through all the cracks. This house was 1970’s built with pink batts and the condensation from the ceiling was bad. It was terrible. When the house was warm inside in winter condensation leak from the ceiling. Even with no rain on a cold winter days one corner of the house would leak with iny water drops from the ceiling onto my face sleeping in the main bedroom. My friend had a similar problem with the stucco plaster tile roof and had buckets for the all water that leaked from the roof into the attic. Obviously you can fill the cracks as the tiles break up. Except my problem was different, moisture was slowly getting in when it was freezing cold.Another common problem is the thermostat which sets the hot water temperature of the cylinder. Again your heating costs can be unnecessarily high and may be going through the roof due to the fact your thermostat is now old and defunct.That is a short list. I have highlighted the major ones to look out for.Check list for an energy efficient home.http://www.ecan.govt.nz/Our+Environment/Energy/YourHome/efficiency-checklist-homeowners.htm

[pieeater]

Sorry to lose you Dean.

[Singel]

People come and go on this forum all the time so may not have seen some previous articles on subjects they raise.Seems to me that Dean was just trying to warn new migrants of possible pitfalls,that's how I saw it anyhow,and for that I commend him.There will be people on here with superior knowledge in certain aspects and his post has prompted them to supply it,another plus in my book.I've obviously been classed as one of the dissafected by some,based only on scant information found on this Forum.Interesting.There do seem to be some quite aggressive souls on this forum with axes to grind.Something good,my 15 yr old son has just had a Knee reconstruction following a serious Rugby injury,no complaints whatsoever,fantastic treatment.Something bad,the cat's just killed a Fantail.
Well said :nice1
Pieeater, pray for your son's speedy recovery :yes

[Singel]

Sorry to lose you Dean.
Same here.

[coyotewildwomen]

FYI-- There are some wonderful new pre-fab homes that can be custom designed, are very high quality, precision cut construction, and then shipped over in a container from Australia. See any Dwell magazine- a great magazine for designers and architects or do a web search. Pre-fab is the way we will probably go when we build in NZ.

The high quality of construction and speed with with which the house can be put up makes so much sense. There is no great savings with this method, but your house can be up in 4 weeks or less. What you get for your money can make it worth passing on stick construction. Check out this option- it used to have such a bad reputation and it has really changed.

[Jo_b]

I did a recce trip to Welly in July (to see it at it's dampest and windiest!) and agree with everything said. I can't see why kiwis haven't embraced scandinavian style building (especially given they have a healthy timber industry). One realtor (actually British) told me that NZers don't like double glazing because it gets to hot (the most flimsy blag I've heard in a while - it's not like they don't have opening windows!) and an architect I spoke to said it is coming into law that new houses are double glazed this year. I think that would be my tip - it you are planning building work, engage an architect and get recommendations.

[Avalon]

One realtor (actually British) told me that NZers don't like double glazing because it gets to hot (the most flimsy blag I've heard in a while - it's not like they don't have opening windows!) .
Just to put that in a little context - becasue I can kinda see where they are coming from:

Our house hit 36c last summer on many days. It was 35c outside - so opening windows, doors and the ceiling wouldnt have helped much. We did it to get air flow in the house - but then got swarmed with flies. We have the house sprayed - but that just kills them - doesnt stop 'em coming in - and then yo have to hoover up lots of dead flies every night. :wah

This is the main reason we have put a heat pump in the affected room - because we need to cool it in summer as well as heat in winter.

Does double glazing increase the heat in a room in summer? Cant say ive ever thought about it. Gotta say as it helps keep houses warm in winter - id take it anyway.

But for us - opening windows was a lot more trouble than it was worth.

[JCM]

Avalon, if you like to have your windows open, you could get insect screens fitted. Our windows have screens and I wouldn't be without them now.

[Avalon]

Avalon, if you like to have your windows open, you could get insect screens fitted. Our windows have screens and I wouldn't be without them now.
If I could get someone to get off thier backsides and even come and give me a quote - I would. But when I do find someone to speak too- they wont look because i have "the wrong type of windows and doors". No one else can be bothered.

And really - it wont cool the house much at all. The Wiararapa gets HOT!

[John Z]

........................

Does double glazing increase the heat in a room in summer? Cant say ive ever thought about it. Gotta say as it helps keep houses warm in winter - id take it anyway.



Double glazing has gone through an evolution just like anything (?) else:

When your house is cool, with or without an airconditioning system, double glazing helps keeping the house cooler. Especially when your double glazing has an extra "metallic" layer that screens/filters the sun. Also the space in between the panes is now filled with special gas instead of dried air.

Smart ventilation and smart building also helps a lot... :)

Hope this helps, cheers,
John.

[dean1968]

With so many New Zealand homes cold, damp, energy-inefficient and sub-standard an innovative ideal to introduce a home energy rating has great merits rather than introducing legislation and forcing developers to comply with an archaic - usually out of date building code (20-30 years old) that doesn't meet modern day requirements.

I feel vindicated that the government has finally woken up and starting to address the problem that there is a correlation between sickness and long term savings on medical care, energy waste /pollution of the environment by making new homes warmer, drier and healthier. In a recent survey 39 per cent of people had attributed that their health "had improved" simply through living in a properly insulated home.

Lobby groups / politicians can squash any building legislation that they don't like or is not favourable to them or their industry but if this is introduce on a volutary basis it will snowball.

Homeowners who spend the money will benefit as they get rewarded with a higher resale vaule of their home based on a home energy rating.

"The Government is proposing a home energy rating scheme, which could be in place by the end of next year.
However the system, which would give homes a warrant of fitness-style rating based on details such as insulation, windows, water heating and lighting, would initially be voluntary. Greens co-leader Jeanette Fitzsimons, the Government's energy efficiency spokeswoman, today unveiled a new draft energy efficiency strategy.
Ms Fitzsimons said the house rating would probably be based on a five-star system similar to that used on appliances.
"At some stage in the future when people are familiar with it we would look at making it mandatory. There is no final policy decision on that yet."
The draft strategy document does not define a level of saving the scheme could achieve, but Ms Fitzsimons said when coupled with raising building code insulation and water heating standards, the promotion of solar heating and more retrofitting of older houses the effect could be significant.
"Along with the rating system would come `here are the next best things to do for you to improve your rating', so households would get guidance on how to move up the star rating and then they would be required eventually to make that rating known at the time they put their house on the market."

Ms Fitzsimons said greater efficiency was needed to combat a projected 40 per cent increase in electricity demand and 35 per cent increase in the use of fossil fuels by 2030.
The Government's last energy efficiency strategy was deemed a failure after little progress was made towards meeting a target of a 20 per cent increase in efficiency by 2012.
But Ms Fitzsimons said the strategy could only work if people accepted it and integrated it into their behaviour.
Businesses and individuals needed to recognise that greater efficiency would save them money as well as benefiting the greater economy and environment.
"If everyone takes responsibility for their part of the plan, everyone will share the benefits of energy savings, warmer homes, better health and a cleaner environment."
Other proposed measures in the draft strategy include:
• Tighter minimum energy performance standards for appliances.
• Changes to the building code to ensure more efficient commercial buildings.
• Better use of energy in industry through mix of education and regulation.
• More education of fuel efficient driving.
• The introduction of more renewable transport fuels.
The release of the draft strategy follows the draft energy strategy earlier this week.

[veronica]

Some of the faults in the houses such as lack of insulation etc seems to stem from some of the kiwis mistaken 'thriftiness'. there is a mind set here of we have never had it there fore we don't need it. An architect we have spoken to says that when he designs homes with double glazing and extra (over the regs) insulation then he is more often than not asked to take these features out to save on cost.

The kiwis take their houses as they are, a lot of them have never lived in any other type and can't see what the fuss is about, its us immigrants that have a problem with these issues.

We are living in a 1920's built timber two storey house and its as sound as any we have ever lived in, no leaks or ricketty bits to be found, we have insulated the ceiling and when we can afford it will double glaze it. so our personal experience of NZ housing is good, even if different to what we have known.

I think the problem with the initial post was the emotive style it was written in. Just for the record all the trades people we have dealt with here have done their time as apprentices either here in NZ or overseas, there are people out there building good houses too.

[b&k]

There is one simple rule if you're buying a house in another country - preparation.

If you are new to the market and housing stock then you are going to need to get up to speed.

Firstly, you should consult a wide range of information - newspapers, estate agents, government reports, forums such as this one, people you know already living there, the neighbours and anything else you can find. This will give you an overview of the general state of the market and a heads up on what to watch out for.

Secondly, you should involve professionals. Get a comprehensive survey done by a trained professional with the necessary experience (ask around) which includes structural and environmental considerations. Discuss the report and get opinions on any issues. If necessary, engage professionals with further specific experience (for example, a reputable electrician).

If you fail to prepare then prepare to fail. Manage and mitigate your risks then you should have a happy stress-free home.

It beggars belief that people will spend their life savings on a property without checking out its current condition and its future liveability. For a small initial outlay and some effort, you can have the facts to hand to make the best decision.

[Rabbit]

Having spent the last eight months in a leaky rental house, one has to be very very careful. After doing all the hard work to get to NZ just to find your life made a disaster due to condensation and mould.

Many people and animals are allergic to mould spores - it was a key factor in the death of our beloved pet and it has made me ill for a considerable time.

It is costing me $5500 dollars in removal costs and the payment of double rent to get out of that situation.

The 15 storey office block that I work in leaks like a sieve when it rains.

I was tempted to build an Italian Villa, but note the issue surrounding the need for large eave's. On a general note does anyone know if Masonry construction is OK with large eaves?

Thanks again Dean, for your insights.

As to the number 8 fencing wire, my employer wants to put a 'man on the moon', they worked it all out, realised they have not got the money or the people, but that shouldn't stop them and as they have an 'immigrant' and they can get him to do it, and lets try anyway.

There are a number of things to be weary of in New Zealand that the 100% pure marketing campaign misses out.

[Diny]

There are a number of things to be weary of in New Zealand that the 100% pure marketing campaign misses out.


Ain't that a fact !!!!!!!

[willowshouse]

I was tempted to build an Italian Villa, but note the issue surrounding the need for large eave's. On a general note does anyone know if Masonry construction is OK with large eaves?


I had a meeting with a house builder the other day where we discussed this subject. She told us that there are a few different ways of getting a concrete plaster finish on the outside of a building and it really depends on what was used as to whether it will be watertight or not. She explained to us that because consumers naturally want the best house for the cheapest price it sort of 'encouraged' less than professional builders to resort to using a 20mm skim over the top of boards attached to the timber frame of the house and of course as you would imagine, with the rain we get here in NZ this was not enough to stop the water getting through .. damp timbers .. rotten wood.. etc etc.

She also explained that here are other methods of getting the finish which are fine - plaster over brick for example. One of the methods did make us laugh though .. plaster over polystyrene bricks! She said it was perfectly fine to do, no rain problems ... but then I asked her what happened if something bumped into it and she did admit that a cricket ball would do it a fair bit of damage.

Sorry it's not a simple answer - don't rule out all concrete finish houses, just investigate how they were finished.

I presume this is what you meant by masonry .. ? Brick skinned houses are fine!

[dean1968]

Before you build your dream Italian Villa I suggest you look at what has already been built here. Where you live largely dictates what is most popular, practical and most importantly functional. I was going to let it slide... but then someone else comes along and thinks oh its ok I can build my Italian Villa here in NZ, as long as I a make a couple of simple adjustments.

Key visual components of the Italian Villa style include low-pitched or flat roofs.
Clay tiles are better suited for hot, dry climates rather than rainy climates where they could develop leaks. I chose at random an example

http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-2000345/
The eaves are minimal which is the projecting overhang at the lower edge of a roof.

In warmer climates and low-rainfall areas, a flat or low-pitched roof works well to keep the house cool, while a steeper pitch works better in colder climates that experience snow and high rainfall, as the water can drain away more easily.

In Scandinavian and more Northern countries where it snows, high pitch roofs are more practical and it has been proven if you can handle the weight load, snow acts as a warm thermal blanket and can retain heat and can actually keep the house part of the roof warm. Like an igloo the outside temperatures may be as low as -45 °C (-49 °F), but on the inside the temperature may range from -7 °C (19 °F) to 16 °C (61 °F) when warmed on the inside.

Selecting the roof pitch isn't purely a matter of design preference. Roof pitch determines what type of roof covering can be used, the size of rafters required. Some tiles will not work below a certain pitch of roof and while most designs of roof tiles will work at 22.5 degrees some will not. Cement tiles absorb moisture and have to handle more weight load.

The steeper the pitch of the roof, usually the thinner the rafter will have to be because of the downward pressure.

Flat roofs are great in climates with little rain, but if you have a pitched roof you'll have the advantage of water draining "away" more easily.

NZ has high rainfall and the technical advice offered here is ideally suited to NZ conditions

http://www.merrilldesign.net/design_wisdom.php

[dean1968]

It is good news for that leaky building owner who won their case and was awarded $250K. It will mean other owners in a similar situation can win their claim now that a legal precedent has been set. However there is a 10-year limitation period which meant any leaky building claim must be brought within 10 years of the home being built or altered. A lot of homes that were resold I believe have missed out (new owner can’t claim) and homes built around the early1990’s will also miss out as well. The Auckland City council have already set aside $100 million as a contigent liabilility for legal claims. The Auckland city ratepayers will end up paying for this with higher rates.

A Government report reckons there may be as many as 15,000 leaky homes.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10356927
Who knows the true cost when it is just an estimaste? Generally speaking to repair a home, costs a lot more home than to built it from scratch.

It said the average repair cost in Auckland was $71,000 for stand-alone houses and $52,000 for multi-unit dwellings. Based on an average repair bill of $70,000 per dwelling and 15,000 failures, the cost of repairs was about $1 billion.


The reserve bank is trying to stop the current kiwi love affair with property by boosting interest rates. But it would be interesting to know the true cost and how much money is actually being spent to top up and borrow more against the value of people’s homes, to fix leaky homes and do other critical maintenance than just being spent on consumer items like cars, overseas trips and other miscellaneous items.

Consumers Institute chief executive David Russell said the ruling set a precedent for legal action. Mr Russell said there was a trend towards Mediterranean style homes which were "totally inappropriate" in New Zealand.

Below is technical advice that is ideally suited for NZ climate.

http://www.merrilldesign.net/design_wisdom.php

I know of one property developer in NZ who is creating some chic houses in an up market subdivision has totally banned flat roofs. He said they will look at the proposal / building plans but you better have a really good architect / reason for it.

The key style for the Italian villa is the low-pitched or flat roofs which is totally inappropriate for NZ conditions. So then sometimes, not all the time, they do make an adjustment and I notice the tendency to overcompensate and build steep roofs. “Water has a tendency to run quickly down these roofs and over the gutters because of the steepness of the roof”. That is not the main problem I have noted. They still want to achieve that look so they then cut down and shorten the eaves projecting to give it that Mediterranean / Italian style look which is not really suitable for NZ climate conditions. The key feature of the eaves is to protect the house at all times from rain /water getting at the side (walls) of the house. In my experience shortening the eaves is just dubious in my humble opinion. I’m also critical of the clay tiles used for the roof to give it that classic Mediterranean / Italian style look which are better suited for hot, dry climates rather than rainy climate.

It is just common sense that when you go live in another country you look at what building materials is popular and predominately being use or built. If I live in a hot / humid country I wouldn’t be building NZ style house.

[a24036]

Qustion that I have in mind. NZ seems to have a lot of forest. So how come timber frame and log houses are not so popular? I can see a lot of plastic siding, but very rarely you see anything like treated wood. Unsulation problem is easy solvable by using SIPs. It's better on the long run anyway. And nothing about passive solar heating systems, geotermal heat pumps, solar panels - all this help reduce the cost of running the home. Eeee. If I just could make through the border :-))))
I was buiding log and timber frames as a hobby. JC them. It is a lot of home - those houses.

[Super_BQ]

dean, I must say you're a brave man to voice your opinion here. Since i've been living in NZ for almost 10 years, it wasn't easy for me to voice my opinion and experiences among local kiwis. Why? No one wants to hear about the bad things of their home country. But since we're on the topic of NZ houses; which is the most expensive 1 time purchase a person or couple does in their life; we must make it a serious issue.

My uncle has had over 40 years of building experience in NZ. He came from the old days of building houses with apprenticeship in his days. However for most of the time, I have mixed views on how they still continue to build in ways that they did 20 or 30+ years ago. Hence the saying, "The tried and true always works". He's just built his retirement home which by NZ standards is quite spectacular. However, I can't stress the lack of comfort it has compared to my dad's house (where I spent 25+ years gowing up) in Canada. Despite the house in Canada was built in 1975, it always had better comfort throughout the year than my uncle's brand new 3 story house in Chch.

Forget about the leaky homes in Auckland. Forget about which house has insulation or not. Forget about how the price of NZ homes have outstripped the cost of living. The following are bigger hurdles New Zealanders must face:

1) Gov't regulation as a way to build better homes: It doesn't surprise me one bit. As in most cases, if the public can't sort it out, then let's get the gov't fix the problem. Among the 100s of different social benefts (WINZ, ACC) NZ offers, it's come to the point that Kiwis still insist that it's better to "take" or "let the gov't sort it out" than to take matters in their own hands. The great economist Milton Friedman was a master mind behind that less gov't intervention with the public (private businesses) was better ; since gov't organisations are typically less efficient than the private sectors. Which of course, is probably the main reason of US's rise in super power status over the last century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman

ACC is a good example where the victims are never compensated enough. Nobody can sue. Well gee, then you have OHSC and numerous other gov't bodied regulatory agencies to babysit everyone.

2) Comfortable & Better Built Homes Cost More $$: Despite how expensive houses are in NZ and the growing trend that fewer kiwis can afford their own home, it doesn't seem like the market will allow room for say a 50-100% premium on such "better built homes". People here are too stuck with the notion that location location location is everything. More rooms in a house is better. Bigger is better...

I'm a big fan of the R-2000 building code in Canada. :nice1 Though it still lags behind the Scandinavian building codes.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/new-homes/r-2000/About-r-2000.cfm?attr=4

I've mentioned to my uncle that to build such a house in NZ, the cost would be double. As of today, i've not ever came across a single house in NZ that is built to this standard. No one builds in 2x6 core frame construction here. No one puts R60 insulation in the roof. (speaking of R value insulation, the NZ marketed brand Pink Bats show no R value rating on their packaged rolled insulation). Which is more important, "Sound Bats" or higher "R Value Bats" ?

Sure Canada has had leaky houses but they were only confined to "Condominiums - hence Leaky-Condos". Construction of condominiums are entirely different to your conventional homes that most people live in. By the way it was interesting to see how Vancouver rectified it's "Leaky-Condo" situation in a much more efficient way than how Auckland is going about. Actually this is convered under the CMHC (Canada Mortgaging & Housing Corp.). One of the goals of the CMHC is to protect the home owner & the banks in case major problems (like a leaky home disaster). Since your home insurance isn't going to cover a leaky home, the gov't of Canada has imposed a nationwide insurance coverage that basically protects both the mortgagor & the mortgagee. Factored into the person's mortgage, the payments go into a pool for disbursement claims. If the house burns down and the home owner doesn't have insurance, CHMC will payout the remaining mortgage on the bank loan. No-one sues and everyone is happy (except the lawyers ; oh and the person that that didn't buy house insurance).

Will such a scheme come to NZ? I highly doubt it because it adds a little extra cost on to the mortgage and it's getting more common to see 50 year mortgages. This is often a debate by Dr. Cullen (NZ Finance Minister) that almost every bank in NZ is Foreign owned - so the bank profits go overseas. Though against Milton Friedman's ideology, Dr Cullen formed Kiwi Bank - "yah let's use tax payers $ and form a bank to directly compete with foreign banks" - marvelous? you tell me.

Culturally the term i've heard often by local kiwis say, "getting through with a smell of an oily rag". Like the previous posts mention how it's great that #8 wire can fix anything - they forget that the #8 wire isn't a long term fix. Let's hope your home isn't built this way.

One can say the to root of the ploblem can be pointed at NZ's influx of immigration in the past decade. However, this is a whole topic on it's own so I won't get into this...:exit

BQ

[Rizak]

Sure Canada has had leaky houses but they were only confined to "Condominiums - hence Leaky-Condos".
I live in Canada and have a flat roofed home. I have no problems, though the roof probably needs to be redone sometime soon. It can wait until after I move out.;)

[dean1968]

Super_BQ you raise some interesting points. My topic was to create some awareness of the issues. It is very difficult to change the mindset here in NZ. New migrants are at least open and flexible in their thinking. When I visited other countries you pick up ideals. So new migrants can at least make a difference and just not accept the status quo and mindset when they build their customise house here in NZ, especially if they come from their homeland.
I would also sugest that if a new migrant builds their home keep the plans and all the specifications (building materials) that went into the house. This will help with the resale value later on.

Looking at the stats, the average New Zealander is finding it increasingly unaffordable to buy a new home. I want to stress that if the government wants to be taken seriously about helping the average NEw Zealander to get in their first home, they only have to tackle the housing problem by a quota; reducing the current entry level of new migrants The only people who have got the money are new migrants. The govt is trying to fathom the reason why houses are so expensive. Now they are focusing on contruction costs, saying it is much higher than Australia. Obviously there is a trade off building a a better built home and the current lax housing standards, poorly built, poorly insulated.

I am aware of a new house in a an upmarket neighbourhood on the market for $570,000 only 2 years old. The new owner I was talking to said it has a leak a roofing leak. They say it doesn't happen today but it does happen. Only a building inspection report may have picked it up. Who knows where the fault lays. The new buyer is in discussions to get some money knock off the price so it can be amended.

Locations is a priority and then bigger is better mentality with the kiwi mindset for a new home. It would be far better to build a slighty smaller house and then get it quality built with better insulation etc. It will not happen of course

The trade off is you have chronic sickness. I have had new migrants who start living here in NZ in their 40's and they have never had asthma in their life.

[dean1968]

A24036 - The question you have to ask yourself first, is how long should a house last? 10 years, 25 years 50 years or more...

I think it is a mindset. Wood does not rate well with architects and builders in terms of durability, the most commonly cited drawbacks being —it is prone to insect dam-
age“ and —it deteriorates or rots“. Nor does wood rate as well in terms
of consistent quality.

I am not an expert here just general and local knowledge. My father use to be a carpenter and build houses around the 1960's. In his day a lot of waste cross cuts would just go on the scrap heap. That has changed since his time. Today nothing is wasted. That is how valuable a commodity it is today.

Regarding your question. Timber can still be more expensive to manufacture and install. Timber flooring can be 2-3 times more expensive than carpet which is the norm in NZ when you also factor in the labour cost. Most new homes built in NZ would not even use "solid" timber doors except perhaps the main entrance door, the majority would use a substitute which it is more affordable. A solid cedar door entrance door would set you back around NZ$800. Multiply that out by say 10-15 doors, in an average home and the price starts to add up. Older homes would certaintly have use solid timber in the flooring and doors such as Rimu or similar. Those days are long gone. Rimu wood is a protected species today. There would not even be enough supply to meet demand today.

85% of the forests that are logged in NZ use Radiata Pine. 33 percent gets exported as logs (no value added to the product). Japan and China can ship it back to NZ as furniture. There was a recent furniture maker here in NZ that closed shop and he said he couldn't compete with the cheap overseas imported furniture here in NZ and he is trying to produce locally made furniture. WTO World Trade Organisation which NZ is tied into, bans import quotas or tarrifs. Our clothing and shoe industries are in a similar predicament and can't compete on then world stage with likes of China and they are all going under belly up.

Radiata Pine has quite different characteristics to the native species being lower density full of knots and in particular having a very high moisture content (up to 130% by weight).

I have a standard Radiata Pine as a fence and already it has warped less than 6 months ( expands and contracts in the weather due to the sun). It has buckled in places; there are holes in that he quality of the wood is not the best. The best stuff is used for furniture. I am just highlighting some of the deficiences.

If you can find a suitable alternative to pine then it would probably be more expensive to import (if it is an exotic hardwood) and that defeats the whole purpose of supporting a NZ job creation industry. A home grown logging and sawmilling industry. Pine has a lot of advantages and disadvantages.
In NZ, especially with volcanic soil it can grow very fast especially at the top of the North Island which are ideal conditions.

The Radiata Pine, however, has some serious disadvantages compared to most other timbers used in similar situations: (1) it is of low density and variable in density through the log, (2) it has very high moisture content when harvested, (3) it is of relatively low strength, and (4) it is subject to fungal and insect attack if not treated. Radiata Pine is classified as a softwood. As structural timber radiata pine compares unfavourably with many timbers overseas. Compared with wood species of a similar density, radiata wood is not stiff.

The major disadvantage is that it needs treatment to deter insects and rots and swells when wet more than most timbers. This can lead to surface checking (cracks) if unprotected in full weather. Then add the high cost of solvents and preservatives and potential environmental concerns. Radiata pine is a non-durable timber and if it is not treated, it will deteriorate very rapidly when wet. Fungi grow rapidly and attack the timber, destroying its structural integrity. This will occur in all external use, and where there is a leak in the cladding it will occur internally too. That is why it is use mostly in the framing of houses.

Initially untreated radiata pine was used, but it was found to be susceptible to borer attack so it began to be treated with boron.
In the 1980s it was found that kiln drying the radiata at a higher temperature than usually used to dry it, gave some resistance to insects. Based on this, it was decided that high temperature kiln-dried (untreated) radiata could be used in place of boric treated timber in certain specified conditions where the timber could be kept dry and clear of the ground. It was thought that it would be ok (safe) to use untreated timber in the framing of houses.

Houses constructed between 1990 and 2004 used exclusively untreated framing. That is when the leaky building problems started to occur. Untreated timber getting attack due to building totally inappropriate Mediterranean style houses with no eaves flat roofs and stucco type cladding. Water / moisture got inside internally to the framing of the house.

[Diny]

It is very difficult to change the mindset here in NZ. .

This is very true.

We are in the process of 'striking a deal' with a builder to put a house on our beach section for us.

The poor bloke had a look of sheer disbelief/confusion on his face when I had a very long list of questions regarding the insulation and how warm the place would be. He found it rather odd that my priorities were to have a warm, dry house rather than concentrate on how much living space there would be.

Diny

[David with a dream]

Having read these posts and agreed with a lot of what has been said I would suggest any 'good' builder thinking of moving to NZ should jump at the chance. I remember discussing this with a builder mate of mine saying he would clean up. IMHO people coming from europe and the US want good quality houses. Houses that are warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Insulation and DG windows + a decent central heating system. When you think about it it's not much to ask for. I my next life I want to come back as a builder who's father inlaw owns a DG factory. Has a best mate as a plumber who's son has a Kingspan business! D

[dean1968]

The Government's Department of Building and Housing is backing councils in rejecting applications for monolithic-clad houses to get code compliance certificates.

Councils are refusing to issue the final sign-off on many of the places, making the houses less saleable without the certificates testifying they meet Building Code requirements.

The certificates are essential because they indicate the house, properly maintained, will meet Building Code requirements for 50 years.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/8/story.cfm?c_id=8&objectid=10425752

http://www.dbh.govt.nz/determinations-view-past-determinations

[Rizak]

HOORAY for Building Code Requirements!

:clap :clap :clap

There is a show on here in Canada called Holmes on Homes. It's about this big bear of a guy, a contractor and a real sweetheart. He has been doing this show for several years now and has started a country-wide campaign against shoddy workmanship. People send him requests and complaints and he goes in with a team, they take a look at the work done, usually tear it all out and then do it up right.

I have learned so much from this show. I mean, I learned a lot working at a contracting company building and servicing company locations across the maritime provinces while my dad was running the company, then when I went to community college to take Civil Engineering. Still, it was an eye-opener to see what people try to get away with when you let them into your home. Even if you get them to build it from the ground up.

I consider myself pretty educated about the building process. I know that codes are going to be quite different in NZ and I can't wait to take a real look at a decent home.

Oh, I'm a programmer now. :laugh