[Lizelle]

I suppose this is more for the people from the Eurozone and US.
My feelings about being in NZ has been pretty well made, and clearly I would rather live somewhere else. But my reasons for moving out of South Africa is strategic, rather than moving for a better lifestyle (although that would hopefully be the eventual outcome).

I have always wondered why people from say UK or US would move to another country, rather than somewhere else in the country. As far as I can tell (having not been there), the different states in the US, for example, have a very different culture from each other. Would it not have sufficed to move to another state, or across the country?

It is something that has always struck me as slightly ironic that so many people would love to move to the US or UK (or somewhere else in Europe, but slightly more language barriers there), and so many people living in the US or UK want to move out.

I realize that some people simply want a bit of adventure, and moving to another country clearly qualify, but many people on the forum seems to have moved for a better lifestyle.

Just wondering :)

[Richard_from_Long Beach]

One reason: all the best places in the US are too crowded and too expensive. Or even if you have the money, they've all been spoiled or degraded to a degree that hasn't happened in NZ yet.

[clg]

I agree with Richard. To live in the US and make a decent living you are limited to large cities which are very expensive and not all that pleasent to live in. If I was an MD or something and could work anywhere I may have stayed but even then I am not so sure, good places there are very crowded and expensive. From a financial standpoint you can earn much more there but I basically decided it was not worth it when day to day existence sort of sucks. I do not like the culture there which is extremly material and short sighted. Things in the US are headed in the wrong direction, more than just Bush, people seem to have lost track of of living and seem to focus most of their efforts on things. Too many conversations there revolve around what you have just purchased or what you are going to purchase so you can show off. Financially, I don't think the US is sustainable as it is now and I think there will be some serious financial shocks there.

[tigerlily]

I have to say that many more people move around in America than move out of it. Few Americans even travel out of the country, let alone move out of it. My family has scattered all over the country in just 2 generations. Americans are mostly very willing to go where the jobs are, so if the job is 2 states (and 700 miles) away from their family, they will pick up and go. American identity is heavily tied to profession. It's the usually the first thing an American would tell you about themself.

But there is also not as much variety between states as you might think. Although states are large, they are very similar in many respects. After the 1950's there was a homogenization of American culture with McDonalds, malls and chain stores springing up everywhere. There are so many cities that have lost their uniqueness and have become an American 'burb that could be anywhere- New York to Oregon who knows? I live in the Northwest, but I recently met someone who moved from Ohio (2,000 miles away). She said, this just reminds me so much of home- everything is just the same. I had to laugh because actually our trees/rainfall/mountains are so different. But she's right in other ways. Houses, cars, people's voices and of course shopping choices are very similar. It's sad that New Orleans, perhaps the largest city with a culture all it's own was so damaged last year.

Smaller cities cost less on housing than the mega cities, but pay is also less. Like Portland, Maine or Boise, Idaho? Both coasts are crowded, but there is a lot of space in the middle, if you want to live there.

Yes, America is very much a consumer society. I hope NZ isn't.

[Lizelle]

aahhh, that would explain it. If the different places are so much the same, moving to a new state would not really help matters. I suppose it is again a matter of things not really being the way they seem from the outside :)

What about Canada, say? It looks like a lovely place from what I have read

Forgive me, I don't mean to nose around or anything, but we are a close family, and I certainly would not have moved so far away if I had much choice in the matter. I know places in Canada is a way of from US, but is not the same far away as NZ is.

[Lizelle]

It's sad that New Orleans, perhaps the largest city with a culture all it's own was so damaged last year

My dad was so saddend by that. He went to New Orleans a couple of years back, and alway when he saw some street on tv, he would say "I was there, I stood right there on that corner" or something.

He loved New Orleans

[Ana&Steve]

My husband and I live in a town in San Diego, California. We want to live in New Zealand because we want to remove ourselves from material drive, planned obolesence, and polluted air. We want to be in a country that has hope and opportunity. We're sick of the dejection in our community. Steve and I are generally happy, upbeat people, but it gets harder and harder to keep up the attitude when we see our city becoming a cr*phole and no one seems to have the power to stop it. We aren't afraid of hard work, and we don't think it will be easy to live in NZ, we just want to give our energy to an enviornment that we choose. Plus, with the close friends and extended family we have in NZ, we have a great support group! :)
Ana

[MB]

We moved to NZ from the US chiefly because of pull rather than push factors. As well as wanting to come here because of the nature of the country and the people, we also judged that we needed to move when we did: had we waited, we literally would not have scored as many NZIS points. And waiting would likely have had more impact on our son, who might have made friends and settled school-wise as he grew in the US.

In my decade in the US I think I had hardly a single negative encounter or experience. So I'm in that odd position whereby more or less 100% of my life there was terrific, and yet I can understand some of the charcteristic criticisms of the country. But even considering those criticisms, I was constantly pleasantly surprisied at the compassion, charity and kindness of American people and systems. Maybe Seattle and environs were a special case -- which I doubt at least somewhat.

(Soap box moment: Although neither of us has experienced devastating homesickness for the US, I do miss the US dearly. I love Americans. In my experience they don't blink or snigger at others' tastes or enthusiasms; they work hard and they aren't hypocrites (example: yes, they do love their cars and driving, but if that causes huge traffic jams they simply get up earlier and earlier each morning to accommodate that and crucially they DON'T whinge about doing so); they don't like individuals being bullied even if the victims in question aren't to their own taste; they ask "How can (we help) you go about achieving what you want?" rather than "Can you achieve what you want?"; when they're new somewhere they usually get right up and say "hi" and then try their best to get in the spirit of the group the've just joined and muck in to help; and so on and so on. Oh, and American girls and women are IMHO clever, witty and very cute. And, no, she isn't standing next to my chair. :laugh )

Back on topic, one of my few regular concerns now we are here is that I really hope that our friends in the US don't think we have left the country in what is in some ways a hard time for it. Whenever I think about where we lived I smile and look forward to seeing it, and all our pals, again. :nice1

[Ana&Steve]

OK, Seattle IS pretty cool!
/love the underground tour
//and Archie McPhee's
Ana

[MB]

OK, Seattle IS pretty cool!
/love the underground tour
//and Archie McPhee's
Ana

:nice1 Yay, Ana!
And Ravenna and Magnusson public parks.. and Murphy's pub in Wallingford... and Richmond Beach in Shoreline... and Randy's diner on E. Marginal Way... and Snoqualmie Pass... and Dick's... and Palamino at the top of Pacific Place... and Trader Joe's... and Scarecrow Video... and Laurelhurst... and the U.District... oooooooohhhh! :laugh :D

Sorry, Lizelle! The hi-jack has now ended and this thread is in the care of the authorities.

[Lizelle]

(Soap box moment: Although neither of us has experienced devastating homesickness for the US, I do miss the US dearly. I love Americans. In my experience they don't blink or snigger at others' tastes or enthusiasms; they work hard and they aren't hypocrites (example: yes, they do love their cars and driving, but if that causes huge traffic jams they simply get up earlier and earlier each morning to accommodate that and crucially they DON'T whinge about doing so); they don't like individuals being bullied even if the victims in question aren't to their own taste; they ask "How can (we help) you go about achieving what you want?" rather than "Can you achieve what you want?"; when they're new somewhere they usually get right up and say "hi" and then try their best to get in the spirit of the group the've just joined and muck in to help; and so on and so on. Oh, and American girls and women are IMHO clever, witty and very cute. And, no, she isn't standing next to my chair. :laugh )

Now there's the America I see when I look at it. I was wondering if it might just be me going stark crazy :)

[Ana&Steve]

I guess it's hard when you live in a place all your life and come to a point where you can't tolerate the changes any more. I know there are places where everyone can agree the living conditions are abominable, but your own space is the only one you have the power (hopefully) to remove yourself from. Plus, sometimes moving away from something helps you appreciate it more! ;)
Ana

[pieeater]

I suddenly want to go to Seattle?I do love it when people enthuse about their hometowns.

[spitz2]

U.S. became too materialistic. I did not care about "status" things such as where you go to grocery shopping (so hip to shop at "whole foods"?) or what part of town you grew up. I did not like that upper class and lower class have no interaction in the society (such as Los Angeles and Bay area), or worse, rich people treat people who do not make a lot of money with no respect. I do not want to stereotype anyone though.

Typical Americans do not even want to travel to outside of the U.S. But if you enjoy accepting another culture, finding new things and meeting new people, I think NZ is a great place to be. The world is much bigger than the U.S. :)

[MB]

I suddenly want to go to Seattle?I do love it when people enthuse about their hometowns.

Heh! Just in case it was my gushing post that prompted you to say that, Pieeater:

my strong (and really quite beautiful :) ) sense of accuracy compels me to confess that Seattle isn't my hometown. I was born in the UK, though I am a naturalized US citizen. But it is my wife's hometown, and in my eyes it is a wonderful city which oozes happy associations for us.

Lizelle's thread-leading question is an extremely good one. The one thing that stops her question from catching me fully in the gut is that I have never so much as pretended that I was unhappy with Seattle: NZ was far more about pull factors for me. Time spent in either is terrific. My wife has her own name on the forum and if she wants to agree or disagree with me she'll do so using that... except to say that Seattle was her home and so returning there for 10 yrs with me to live and work was not quite the adventure that Seattle was for me. NZ is, in that sense, probably lots more stimulating for her. She (and I) like being here because we find the people, culture and country intriguing and charming.

BTW, re. Ana's reference to the Seattle underground tour: 100 or so years ago Seattle raised its street level and still has passages and ruins of an old bank, meat market, bath tub, etc. dozens of feet under Pioneer Square. You can go and walk round down there, for a few bucks, and for over 21s there is also a tour featuring early Seattle's naughtier history. 'Seamstresses', eh? Oh, yes? ;)

[barryp]

For me (US Citizen who's lived abroad before) the appeal of NZ over the US is pretty strong:
- Much less manic pace of life
- More supportive social systems
- Patriotism not expressed through militarism
- Healthcare not linked to one's employment
- DIY ethic
- Less materialism
- Far less violent crime
- Gorgeous places always close by

I'm not delusional about any of those - I'm sure we will encounter xenophobia, racism, neuroses, coldness, and plain old hostility in NZ - as we would in any other country. And after living in coastal California most of my life, I don't really understand the concept of 'weather' anymore. But our experiences there so far suggest we'll settle pretty well.

I find most North Americans' ignorance of the world at large disgusting. (A third of US Congressional representatives do not even have passports! Nor did the current President upon taking office.) A tremendous amount of grief follows from this ignorance, all around the world. But on an individual basis, those same head-in-sand people I condemn are, as a group, generous and helpful to anyone and everyone. It's a refreshing attitude, and I hope I don't lose sight of it.

[voxel]

What about Canada, say? It looks like a lovely place from what I have read.

A less aggressive/hostile US - where people are more polite but not as friendly (i.e. getting invited to dinner by folks you've just met). Many Latin American immigrants complain about - Canadians are so nice and helpful, but they say it's so hard to make new friends. Maybe NZ is the same? The kiwis I've met abroad were anything like that, but here everybody has their own cliques. Being a foreigner in a foreigner country has never been an easy thing.

I think Canadians leave for travel and job opportunities and rarely political or societal reasons. Brain drain has always been a problem in Canada (less so now). The US and UK traditionally have offered more work opportunities which is important because Canadians also define themselves by their professions like Americans do...

A small percentage hate snow and leave because of weather - but they aren't real Canadians ;-)

[dbonnett]

(Wonder why it is all yanks answering this one?)

We have been talking this one over alot as we plan..
For us, it is a combination of being pulled to NZ (like Matt said) and being pushed from the US by what we believe the future holds. We love where we are now (Boulder, CO), my wife loves her job, I (mostly) enjoy being self-employed and my daughter is thriving at her new school. If we didn't look at what things might be like in 10-20 years, we could be happy as pigs in mud.

However:
- Colorado (which is just about the size of NZ in land area and population) is growing at 50,000 people per year (5-8 times as fast as NZ) and shows no sign of slowing down. Everywhere you go feels significantly more crowded each year; we have stopped skiing at most of the resorts here because you sit in 2+ hours of bumper to bumper traffic each way and then have to worry about being run over by the thousands on the mountain with you.

- Everywhere you drive, new houses are being built by the hundreds on farmland and the requisite strip malls get plopped down. The roads go from 2 lane to 6 lanes and great biking routes disappear. BTW: For all of the talk of dangerous driving conditions in NZ, Colorado has a significantly higher road fatality rate!

- Health insurance is tied to having a job with a large corporation; if my wife didn't work for a multinational, I couldn't have my own company, since it is difficult and expensive (US$1000+/month) to get insurance for a small company. What it will be like when we retire in 25+ years is terrifying to consider. We also feel tied to having jobs that provide insurance, which makes it hard to consider alternative careers.

- Housing prices are already crazy and will keep rising, even with the current slowdown. The average single family house in Boulder is close to US$500,000 (for an older, not well insulated property) and all of the new stuff is around $1,000,000.

- Now that our government has spent US$450 BILLION on the Global War on Terror so far, the thought of us and our daughter paying for that in a myriad of ways feels intolerable.

- There is nowhere in the US that we feel would be better than Boulder for us (a myopic opinion maybe), so as we looked more closely at NZ, we felt that it has a lot of the things we desire. We thought about other places - Canada is too closely tied to the US (not to mention the weather), Australia seems too conservative and a bit rednecky, other places just didn't resonate. We know several Kiwis who are in the US for a while and all of them seemed to be the sort of people we enjoyed being around.

Having gone through a move to Colorado 12 years ago, when we knew almost no one and didn't have much information about here (much less than about NZ thanks to the Internet), we feel confident that the disruption of moving is something we can handle.

I am in IT consulting, so the hot job market is a nice thing - hopefully we will get PR and I will find a job on our reccie trip next June. We are open on where we end up, with Wellington or Nelson being favorites (based on what we know so far) and Christchurch or Dunedin also possible spots.

Sorry for the long post, but this question definitely resonated with me :o

[Lizelle]

dbbonnet, long posts are not a bad thing, they are great to read :)

I echo pieeater's feelings, I suddenly feel like googling Seatle and planning my move :) That underground tour sounds amazing (good 'ol seamstresses, heh)

(Wonder why it is all yanks answering this one?)


Any UK people want to weigh in on this?

This is facinating to me. It is funny how different a country can sound from looking from the outside in, than it is for the people actually living there.


Typical Americans do not even want to travel to outside of the U.S.

That makes me think of my dad's expenience in the US. He went there a couple of years back, and met an old bloke in Kentucky somewhere. The guy asked my dad where he's been, and he told him that they went to New York before they came to Kentucky. The guy replied that his family has never been to New York, but his granddad did go one county over on an occasion. We had quite a chuckle at that

[Lizelle]

oops, sorry, I see that I forgot a t in Seattle

[Diny]

This is facinating to me. It is funny how different a country can sound from looking from the outside in, than it is for the people actually living there.







I toally agree - that is something I find fascinating too. Although I will be the first to wave the flag for NZ, I find that some aspects of actually living here are a million miles off what people are posting.

One thing that has really hit home with me since moving to NZ .....

It is a wonderful country but all the 'downsides' that exist elesewhere in the world are alive and kicking here - some to a lesser extent, some to a much greater extent.

I've been living here for 15 months now and I can only just start to say that I'm truely liking it - it's taken me a long time to get to this stage. Up until now I would have quite happily jumped on the first plane out of here (in fact it was something I longed to do). I no longer feel that way. I'm not aware of any great 'event' that has changed my point of view, I think it's just that my own individual 'settling in' process took a long time. In the months of feeling like I'd made the biggest mistake in the world by coming to live here, my feelings were made more 'solid' by the fact that personally I did not find NZ to be the crime free, friendly, more socially aware, laid back, educationally advanced, glossy mag haven that I was expecting (in spite of making many trips here before actually living here).

I think now I've just adapted, accepted that there's parts of NZ that are fantastic, and there's other parts that are downright shoddy and 'down market' (to coin a term somebody used a few days ago on the forum).

I still don't find the Kiwis to be friendlier than other nationalites, I find the scenery breathtaking but I find the economy alarming. I find the roads a pleasure to drive on but the houses are like stepping back into the dark ages. I find school 'life' over here is wonderful, I find school 'work' to be a long way behind the actual work my children were use to doing, I don't care how many arguements are put forward in it's defence, the level of 3R's my boys are doing is pathetic. I find some of the food on offer over here unfit for human consumption, but other food is the best in the world. The fresh fish is unequalled and (some of) the furit and veg are to die for.

What I'm trying to say (and probably going way of subject in the process) is that IMHO New Zealand is a great place and if I found I had to leave I wouldn't want to - but I don't find it to be 'THAT' fantastic. It's occupied by the human race - therefore all the associated 'ills and spills' are here too. I'm a great believer that how you view your life here in NZ will depend on what kind of life you had before you came here.

I never had any great push away from the UK, like others have mentioned, I simply had a pull towards NZ.

I married a Kiwi - maybe that's the simple, short answer to 'Why NZ?'

Diny

[Soon2baKiwi]

I know Auckland is different from the rest of NZ (my husband says we don't live in New Zealand) but I've never seen shopping before on the scale it's done here. Not materialistic? :wah That always makes me crack up. It's the new religion for an awful lot of Aucklanders. In our first two weeks here my inlaws took us sightseeing. We didn't have a car so were dependent on them. We saw every Westfield Mall in Auckland, gained an intimate knowledge of Albany Mega Centre and Dresssmart :uhoh until we put our collective foot down and said 'no more' :yes

Diny, apart from the length of the settling in process (it only took me a couple of months) I could have written a lot of what you've just said. When people talk about the friendliness of New Zealanders I just think 'well, you've never been to Ireland then'. The only thing I miss about Ireland is the laughter in people's eyes, which in its way, is quite a big thing.

I was awfully lucky because I made some really good friends in my first job here but if I'd ended up in another job I might have an entirely different viewpoint now. Life is about the people you meet and the friendships you make - if you don't have them, you're lost. I do love it here but by no stretch of the imagination is it perfect. Maybe it's by recognising that, and still loving it, that you feel at home.

[Bruckner]

We chose NZ because we knew we would be moving out of New York once the kids were born. We always wanted to live overseas and figured now was the time. I love New York but I don't have the energy to raise children here. There are many things I'll miss about NYC like the culture, the diversity, the whole 24-hourness of the place but it's a big world out there. And this city is changing, not always for the better.

Emily

[MB]

It's occupied by the human race - therefore all the associated 'ills and spills' are here too.

One of the most interesting things to do if making a concerted effort to unhook rose specs from one's eyes, is to look at the letters pages of the local papers, free weeklies, etc., of the place you are thinking of settling in. This process is quite familiar to me now: you soon see what locals are enthusing or complaining about. It's a great thing to read alongside reading all the literature that tends to boost the location in question.

Example: Seattle. A visitor could pretty well escape awareness of this 100%, but over the years we lived there the local press was full of concern about local transportation, building, etc. One characteristic type of letter was of the "Why can't we be more like (country or city 'x')...?" variety. And, no doubt, there were letters in, say, European papers saying "Why can't we be more like Seattle/the US...?"!

I'm not saying anything so silly/sweeping as that all such letters are or are not consistent, valid, well argued, or whatever.

But as an easy-to-do and somewhat telling exercise for the intending migrant, it's worth reading half a dozen such letters or editorial sections side by side with the glossier texts about the location to which one is intending to move.

[Diny]

- Less materialism

.

There's just been a very good program on telly (in NZ) about how the 'must have' attitude of New Zealanders is spiralling out of control - causing massive debt.

[Richnat]

Life is about the people you meet and the friendships you make - if you don't have them, you're lost.

That's a nice piece of wisdom there Soon2baKiwi. Thanks.

[barryp]

It is discouraging to read that consumer debt is growing in NZ; it does have a salutary economic effect in the very short term, but is severely problematic in the long term.

Still, I think our Kiwi bretheren have quite a lot of catching up to with the USA and its residents in terms of personal, corporate, and government debt. (Federal debt is measured in trillions and growing without bound in the USA.) And 'less materialism' is not at all the same as 'no materialism', though still an improvement in my view.

[Debbie P.]

From a UK perspective: nothing wrong with the UK apart from over-crowding (in certain areas only, admittedly, but they happen to be where I live). Did consider moving to Scotland, but I'm a southern softie!

Otherwise, just want the adventure of living abroad for a bit, but we're not so adventurous that we would move to a non-english speaking nation.

[willowshouse]

I didn't think this topic would be quite as interesting as it turned out to be..

I think from a UK perspective it is difficult to pin down a general reason for leaving. For one thing, there is such a difference between the regions. Parts of the UK are incredibly unfriendly (London) and others are places you where a stranger would be welcomed with open arms (mostly North). Quite apart from the differences in region, people's own perspective on the same thing is so different - how could you generalise?

Personally my reasons would be:

to escape (to a hopefully large degree) the 'must have' consumer attitude

to escape the 'moany' manipulative attitude of the UK press and hope that the NZ paper takes a very long time to become as awful

to provide my children with a lovely background for their childhood days

to settle into a country where I can actually see myself spending the rest of my days (with a few long overseas trips here and there)

I am under no illusions that all is perfect in NZ - but for me it is closer to the life that I would call 'ideal' than the UK is

Dawn

[willsken]

I didn't think this topic would be quite as interesting as it turned out to be..

I think from a UK perspective it is difficult to pin down a general reason for leaving. For one thing, there is such a difference between the regions. Parts of the UK are incredibly unfriendly (London) and others are places you where a stranger would be welcomed with open arms (mostly North). Quite apart from the differences in region, people's own perspective on the same thing is so different - how could you generalise?

Personally my reasons would be:

to escape (to a hopefully large degree) the 'must have' consumer attitude

to escape the 'moany' manipulative attitude of the UK press and hope that the NZ paper takes a very long time to become as awful

to provide my children with a lovely background for their childhood days

to settle into a country where I can actually see myself spending the rest of my days (with a few long overseas trips here and there)

I am under no illusions that all is perfect in NZ - but for me it is closer to the life that I would call 'ideal' than the UK is

Dawn

Those would be the reasons for me to. The one that is missing for me and I look forward to a lot is the lack of crowds. I can't wait to have some space! :nice1

[Richnat]

Dawn pretty much summed up our thoughts too. Nice one :)

The big one for us is the kids. I grew up in Australia and thought it was great. Nat grew up in Germany in a village and loved it too. Village life in Germany is virtually unaffordable and the country has slipped so far into the consumer culture anyway that I often wonder if I have awoken to some dystopian nightmare. :no

Ooops damn soap-box...sorry about that :o

Cheers

Rich and Nat

[wanderingoregonian]

Interesting Thread!

Why not somewhere else in the US? - Well I've lived in 2 very different states already, one agreed immensely with me and the other was not a good fit - but being back 'home' where I grew up now, I realize that I absoluetely love the Pacific NW and would probably not choose to live else where in the states again (unless it was for a job where i could return here for summers - being in education, that is often a possibility)

Why NZ? practically I need to work in an English speaking country as my field (speech therapy) demands complete fluency. Also, I have many friends who have relocated to either NZ or Australia. NZ scenery is lovely and I hope it will prevent some of the longing I had for wild beaches and snow cap mountains whenever I've lived away from Oregon. The education system sounds like a good fit, both from a future mom point of view and professional

But those are really all things that mean that we didn't rule out NZ... the number one reason whenever the paperwork gets tough is that health insurance is not tied to FULL TIME employment in NZ. When we looking at starting our family - options for work/family balance seem quite limited here.

In America, for many (including my husband and I) it is impossible for both partners to drop to 3-4 days per week to stay home, at least part time, with their kids is impossible because at least one person MUST work full time to secure health care benefits for their family. Even if a family can afford the very expensive premiums (for those not in the states, it can easily be more than monthly housing cost for premiums alone), the only guarantee that you won't be denied insurance is to get the insurance through work. For example, I was denied health insurance this summer when I was unemployeed, even though I'm young, healthy, and don't smoke because my menstral cycles are irregular. I only put that in because I think that is a very illogical reason to refuse to cover me. When I told the company rep this, he said that even a sprained ankle without a doctor's report that it is completely healed would be grounds for denial and that most of his coworkers wouldn't be able to get insurance at their own company if they weren't full time!

In fact, I was just offered a dream job here in the states, but told the person than unless I could could work part time and get health benefits I'm off to NZ. The man was shocked - but that is the truth for me. And so I'm off to chase my dream of living abroad :cheers

[constablechuck]

It's true that in the U.S. a serious health problem can easily lead to financial ruin, if your too sick to work then you will eventually lose your health insurance, the government does offer health insurance (Medicaid) for the poor, the problem is that you must really be poor to qualify, so after you have spent all of your money and sold everything of value to pay for medical expenses you can apply for assistance, if you recover your health then you can expect a long hard road to recovering financially.

Big business owns America, most of the Politicians here are bought and paid for by special interest groups, if you don't have a lot of money to throw around then your opinion doesn't count, back in the 90's a national heath plan was introduced, the insurance companies spent millions on lobbyists and campaign contributions to ensure the plan would never become a reality, this is just one example of why the working class in America will continue to get poorer while those at the top will continue to get richer.

Then we have affirmative action, this means that if you are a non minority working class person competing for a job with a minority then you don't get the job, this law has helped minorities but it does so at the expense of non minority working class people.

I'm overwhelmed by problems here in the U.S. that will probably get worse instead of better, I'm an elected Law Enforcement Officer and I often arrest people on warrants for unpaid fines, I often get court orders to seize and sell a debtors property to satisfy judgements, some of the people I deal with are irresponsible and deserve what they get, but many are victims of unfortunate circumstances ie: they couldn't pay their fines or creditors because we had a cold winter and the Gas Company hit them with a huge bill, they had to choose between paying a fine, a creditor or paying to keep the heat on in their home, then the court orders me to arrest them or sell off their property to satisfy their creditors, the Poiliticians and Judges don't see or care to see what's happening on the front lines in America, I can't change things so I'm just going to leave, I know New Zealand is not perfect but it's going to be a paradise for me.

[Ana&Steve]

Hi Constablechuck, I sympathize with your obvious pain; I hate what has happened to our Country, and I feel so powerless to change it. I hope you find the solace you desire in NZ, and congrats on taking your life into your own hands!
Ana

[jonSE]

Why NZ

fancied a change from Bliars Britain and wifes redundancy made the decision 50% easier. Wife's a kiwi so immigration for me was simple.
Despite the fact we have now moved to OZ (reason, employment - wife works in a profession with about 3 jobs total in NZ and none of the occupants showed much sign of retiring soon) we didn't actually want to leave NZ. Not that we are moping about in OZ because we are missing NZ - do miss the seaview and the Tui's though (birds not beer)

Ultimately anywhere is what you make of it. some places are easier to fit into and others probably just plain unacceptable.

Re Americans - None of our american friends ( and we have quite a lot) conform to the stereotypical American that UK TV portrays. And no they aren't all oddballs just normal folk. My experiences of the US also don't conform to "the norm" we could have quite happily decided to go and live and work there - just getting a green card is a whole lot more difficult than NZ or OZ.

[SarahEDH]

Re Americans - None of our american friends ( and we have quite a lot) conform to the stereotypical American that UK TV portrays. And no they aren't all oddballs just normal folk.

jonSE,

This is non-loaded question, honestly -- would love to know what UK TV sees as a stereotypical American -- I'm sure it's hilarious. Are there any shows you can think of that are particularly over the top and would be fun for open-minded (and emotionally secure) Americans to rent/download?

[Diny]

Hey Sarah

Can't help with suggesting any TV progs which give us a stereotypical idea of you Americans but I can tell you this.

My hubby works in the oil industry and the vast majority of the guys he works with are from the USA. He says they're the nicest, funniest guys he's had the fortune to come across.

Over the years I've met many of his work collegues and I have to say they've all been really nice people. A more polite bunch of guys you'll have trouble finding. Being called ma'am and being treated like the Queen of Sheba is bliss. I don't know whether my view of Americans is 'distorted' in any way - but if it is - it's certainly distorted in the right direction. To be honest, I'd go and live in the US tomorrow if a green card was available. I'm sure some would find this very strange.

On the same note, we have a few Kiwi mates living in the UK and when we told them that we're moving over here they were 'gob smacked' ... they just couldn't understand why we would want to uproot our family and move them to such a dump as here (their words not mine). In fact a couple of them refuse to ever visit here again and pay for their parents to fly to the UK to see them. It's strange how some people can look upon a certain location/nationality as the best thing since sliced bread while others look upon them as 'pure hell'.

Diny

[SarahEDH]

hi Diny -- thank you for the kind words about the Yanks you and your husband have met, that's nice to hear. Maybe the polite ones thrive better abroad than the, er, other kind . . . the ones who expect US food / prices / customs / language to appear as if by magic wherever they go . . .

I agree, it's kind of nice to hear "ma'am". Especially, I think, if delivered in an Atlanta drawl . . . a la Rhett Butler or some other smoldering hunk of Southern charm . . . ;) (I think we need an emoticon that signals "hot guy". Do you know who I should put that request in to :laugh)

Sarah

[Diny]

hi Diny -- thank you for the kind words about the Yanks you and your husband have met, that's nice to hear. Maybe the polite ones thrive better abroad than the, er, other kind . . . the ones who expect US food / prices / customs / language to appear as if by magic wherever they go . . .

I agree, it's kind of nice to hear "ma'am". Especially, I think, if delivered in an Atlanta drawl . . . a la Rhett Butler or some other smoldering hunk of Southern charm . . . ;) (I think we need an emoticon that signals "hot guy". Do you know who I should put that request in to :laugh)

Sarah


That's OK Sarah - I'm just saying it how it is - can't vouch for every American on the planet but the ones we've come into contact with have been just great. Lord knows why somebody has taken exception to me saying something nice about your people and has found it necessary to leave me some bad reputation for it. Guess I'm damned if I do - damned if I don't.

Diny

[Lupin]

You got bad reputation for saying something positive about Americans?!!!

:roll

[Diny]

Sure did !!!

[SarahEDH]

I'm puzzled too. As an unofficial ambassador of the upstart Colonies I'll gratefully receive all the good publicity we can get, especially in these times. Diny, if the person who took exception to your post wants to air their grievances I'm a willing listener . . . I do realize the U.S. has MANY tourists wandering the globe (in Europe particularly) wearing ugly jandals and shorts into nice restaurants, aiming camcorders at innocent residents and shopkeepers, complaining about the McD's burgers not tasting like those at home . . . if we could somehow keep these people penned up at home, we would, but they just get on planes and go. Now, if it's our President and his policies they don't like, I can't offer a thing. Ordinary Americans have no voice in politics -- we just try to vote them out and await better times.

[Diny]

if the person who took exception to your post wants to air their grievances I'm a willing listener . ..


Ah well - they're not alone -just checked and another person has left bad rep concerning my nice comments too.

Can anybody explain why I should receive 2 bad rep points for saying complimentary things about people? I'm intrigued.

Diny

[Carol]

I agree, it's kind of nice to hear "ma'am". Especially, I think, if delivered in an Atlanta drawl . . . )

Sarah



And I STILL get that buzz when I get called that in NZ (regularly)

especially in garages by the nice man filling my tank..........so to speak.
;)

[willsken]

especially in garages by the nice man filling my tank..........so to speak.
;)
:laugh

[Diny]

And I STILL get that buzz when I get called that in NZ (regularly)

especially in garages by the nice man filling my tank..........so to speak.
;)


OMG !!!! You wouldn't believe the visions I have dancing in my head !!!!!

[Carol]

You have to live the dream girls!
:nice1 :D

[felix]

I suppose this is more for the people from the Eurozone and US.
My feelings about being in NZ has been pretty well made, and clearly I would rather live somewhere else. But my reasons for moving out of South Africa is strategic, rather than moving for a better lifestyle (although that would hopefully be the eventual outcome).

I have always wondered why people from say UK or US would move to another country, rather than somewhere else in the country. As far as I can tell (having not been there), the different states in the US, for example, have a very different culture from each other. Would it not have sufficed to move to another state, or across the country?

It is something that has always struck me as slightly ironic that so many people would love to move to the US or UK (or somewhere else in Europe, but slightly more language barriers there), and so many people living in the US or UK want to move out.

I realize that some people simply want a bit of adventure, and moving to another country clearly qualify, but many people on the forum seems to have moved for a better lifestyle.

Just wondering :)

Why NZ over another area in the UK? Lived in UK for nigh on 45 years. All the nice bits are way too pricey and in the summer are way too busy. The UK housing is way too expensive, we lived in a very nice old house in an awful, crime ridden area, we were slaves to a mortgage. There were no facilities for our kids locally, not much to do generally and what was there was too expensive. To get anywhere took ages, the beach was 4 hrs away.

Here in NZ we live in a neighbourhood to die for..or not as the case maybe..in my old neighbourhood the chances of dying were greater!!! We have no mortgage, we have reasonable savings in the bank (in the UK they were tiny) we have endless things to do for kids and adults alike. The beach is 40 mins away and great snow skiing is just 3 hrs away. We have a lake the size of a small ocean also 3 hrs away. The capital is only 2hrs away. TRAFFIC IS NON EXISTANT!!!!! We live in one of the most diverse, beautiful, uncrowded and remote countRIes on eartH, we love it!!!!

Okay we had to sacrifice much to get here and we had to sacrifice relationships with friends and family from the perspective of being so far away from them. But when you weigh it all up NZ wins hands down over the UK. Our lives in NZ are bordering on perfect by comparison to what we left behind in the UK. NZ rocks. Living it and loving it (and dealing with UK sickness when it comes around..as it always does...it may not have been an ideal life in the UK but you still miss folk aye??)