New Zealand - Page 2

Jani D

13th October 2006, 12:30 AM

We cant come over on a reccy. Just cant afford it, although as our ever ticking visa are ticking quickly and house not selling, its something that we may not have a choice in. But as Diny said, it different going to a place on holiday or a visit and actually living there.

But totally agreed that research has to be done. We have a friend who was doing the same as us but to Oz. To activate her visa (while waiting for her house selling to go through) she went for a month but came back after 1 WEEK, because from the sound of it, it wasn't like the glossy brochure :eek:

To answer on behalf of Stevie (who's in work - not hiding behide his wifey skirt :laugh ), we are suppose to live in a decent part of Liverpool. In our estate its the drug dealers who live here in the big detached (police know who they are but dont do anything about it). Unlike my mum (10min away) we dont have people throwing bombs through our neighbour house in the middle of the night, and she doesnt live it the roughest of areas neither. Stevie wasnt saying that the UK was like this he was simply stating things that happen in our surrounding areas. Because hey I wish it didnt but it does. Bearing in mind that when we first started the process over 2 years ago Stevie was working on the taxi and the things he saw and experienced, i know he didnt want our kids to be there in 8 years time.

As sometimes you dont 'notice it' till affected by it. For instance someone tried to break into our house last year, didnt get in thank goodness but took the glass out of my old business van and next door only the other month had the door booted in, but was stopped as a neighbour came into the close and stopped them (this was 3.15 in the afternoon) but the neighbours the other side havent been affected (touching wood for them) so to them they live in a crime free enviroment.

But when we tell people of our plans, we get the "how beautiful etc etc and no crime" and my response has all ways been "humans live there dont they".

But for us folks still stuck back in the UK it can be a bit "Oh no not ANOTHER negative post". hearing how bad NZ is. "We have no money, weather is awful, there's crime, etc etc" and then to hear that how wonderful it was back in the UK or where ever, i dont know it more then soul distroying. I spoke to someone at the last NW meet and 'they' asked why it was so negative and was it always like that. Maybe we were lucky when we first joined, we got to read people like Moorf first post (that was the first one we read as we joined) on getting there and lots of others too since. Has NZ changed that much in over 2 years maybe so. I know this person said that they dont come on or post much now and i have even been hearing that from my own husband lips lately and he seems very down about it, but hey i might get more done in the house now (love ya hunny!!) I know the other night i felt like ripping up the blue stickers!! I know its not for every one and no one can tell you if its the right thing for you and you have to come over without the rose tinted spec and know there's not manna falling from the heavens. You have to stuck it and see. I am not a glass half empty nor a glass half full person, but more like i'll be needing another before last orders!

So lets hope when the summer comes we'll hear nice things to keep those scales balanced.

I think it a plot to stop us coming over so you can have it all for yourselves :p :laugh

Diny

13th October 2006, 12:36 AM

Have just done a quick search but can't find it (gave up looking actually). But I'm pretty sure about a year or so some of the ChCh forumites were posting details about the high number of murders happening in the area - it seemed like it was almost a weekly occurance. Hhmmmm - selective memories maybe ???? LOL

Diny

ENZ

13th October 2006, 12:52 AM

If you are specifically seeking low crime rates in New Zealand, three areas have enjoyed consistently low crime over many years.

1. Nelson
2. Rural Canterbury
2. North Shore, Auckland

If I recall rightly, Auckland, South Auckland and Napier have the highest crime rates. As with all statistics, individual experiences may differ significantly.

Diny

13th October 2006, 12:57 AM

As sometimes you dont 'notice it' till affected by it. For instance someone tried to break into our house last year, didnt get in thank goodness but took the glass out of my old business van and next door only the other month had the door booted in, but was stopped as a neighbour came into the close and stopped them (this was 3.15 in the afternoon) but the neighbours the other side havent been affected (touching wood for them) so to them they live in a crime free enviroment.

This is a brilliant way of illustrating the 'discussion'. Unless you have been personally effected by crime (of any degree) you don't really notice it. Back in the UK the only thing that ever happened to me was I had my car broken into one night in the run up to Xmas. Within a couple of months of living in NZ (in a rural location may I add) I had some drug crazed yob threatening to slit my ******* throat. This was said through bared teeth with his face about 2 inches from mine - he was wound up like a cheap clock - ready to lash out.

So - for me - going by my own personal experience - I've come face to face with more serious crime in NZ than I did in the UK.

Take on board all the negatives, all the positives and find some common ground between the 2 - then I think you'll have a pretty accurate picture of what life in NZ is really like - whether we're talking levels of crime, north v south, rain v sunshine, warm houses v cold houses, high pay v low pay, friendly people v unfriendly, good fish & chips v bad .... etc etc etc.

Remember - what one person comes here to find can often be what another person comes here to lose.

Diny

Debbie P.

13th October 2006, 01:59 AM

I think it a plot to stop us coming over so you can have it all for yourselves :p :laugh

Hmm, I wonder! :laugh :laugh

markynz

13th October 2006, 09:25 AM

willsken

13th October 2006, 09:30 AM

:laugh

sidabrine

13th October 2006, 09:59 AM

I wish we could choose where to live in NZ and if we could, you would see us waving Auckland good bye in a nano-second. The jobs are in Auckland. So we're stuck here, as there's nothing comparable happening elsewhere in NZ. :(

I guess thats a whole another topic, but I'm surprised to hear that people choose the area they want to live in and then get the job. So far for me it has always been getting a job first and then HAVING to move into the area. I'd love to live in Nelson or Dunedin or any of those cute idylic small towns, but I wouldn't have a chance to find work there (unless I'd resort to picking apples)!

I guess this whole thread should have been called "Horrified by crime in Auckland". Although I'm not so sure - one story (was it Diny's) of the extremely close encounter (in a rural area, whereabout?) was hair raising!!!

Diny

13th October 2006, 01:14 PM

one story (was it Diny's) of the extremely close encounter (in a rural area, whereabout?) was hair raising!!!

I had that close encounter here in Ashhurst. We're about 12 km from Palmerston North. This is a very rural area, our village is tiny - just one main street with a couple of shops and a school. For those of you who are familiar with the Manawatu you'll know it's a million miles away from 'urban'.

Diny

Avalon

13th October 2006, 01:18 PM

But for us folks still stuck back in the UK it can be a bit "Oh no not ANOTHER negative post". hearing how bad NZ is. "We have no money, weather is awful, there's crime, etc etc" and then to hear that how wonderful it was back in the UK or where ever, i dont know it more then soul distroying.
With respect - there are a mix of negative posts, positive posts and in between posts. ANd thats about NZ AND the UK. Sometimes i wonder if im reading the same forum as everyone else.

What you have said about NZ (no money etc but the UK is heaven) is also said the other way round (UK is an unmitigated Hellhole and NZ nirvana) on here. Its a fair mix representing a fair difference in peoples points of view. I dont see your view of the UK any more than I see Sidabrines view of New Zealand, but that doesnt mean your view of the UK is wrong, anymore than Sidabrines view of NZ is wrong. It more than likely because I wouldnt for one minute choose to live near Liverpool, any more than I would want to live in Auckland.

You may find it soul destroying to hear NZ is Hell for somepeople, but they also may find it just as difficult to hear that the country of thier birth is so utterly depraved and violent - especially if for them, it wasnt anything like that.

For some people, NZ really may be everything they could ever want in life, but it wont be for everyone who makes the journey. Similarly, for some people, britain offers everything they could want. Is either side right? Actually - both sides are. Its not up to me where another person prefers to live, adn its not up to anyone else to tell me where I should live, especially when its based on THIER experiences and not mine.

This forum is NOT negative through and through and its unfair to claim that it is. Theres a MIX of views, some good, some bad. Why is it that there has to be a constant bashing of such posts (whether they are good or bad for NZ), instead of an acceptance that we all have a different POV based on the fact that we come from a different starting point. Many people spend a HUGE amount of time writing on here, and its getting tiring to be told that this is a completely negative place to visit. What on earth are we bothering for I wonder???? People are giving thier experiences, so that when YOU come, you will have some idea what to look out for, and can be prepared. Do they REALLY deserve to be looked down on and berated for it ????

Hopefully when you get here - you wont have any problems, and compared to your life back home - it will be brilliant for you and your family - but its worth sparing just a thought for those that ARE struggling to adapt. Becasue one day soon, you may just find you are in the same position, and that YOU struggle to adapt to life here. Its happened before.

:no Sorry to vent -Dont mean to offend anyone - but this is getting really a bit much!

markynz

13th October 2006, 01:22 PM

Hey sid, you're on a real downer mate. Come on chill out and have a brew :cheers

no seriously - we chose to live here because I bought a franchise !!

I was sick of 9-5 and wanted my own business. Hell its not easy, and theres lots of work ahead, but Nelson is a thriving place. Theres around 60,000 in the area and the home building continues unabated. We have some good shops, nelson town centre is great, a good Mall in Richmond and anything you could care to ask for.

Ok, its not Auckland, but its not exactly a little hole in the floor either. We have a busy port, an airport and a tourism industry that does really well.

Whats your line of work ? I was wondering if you realised that 2/3 of all businesses in NZ are run from home ?

If you can - go for it mate !!

Avalon

13th October 2006, 02:03 PM

And for anyone after some REAL negativity - enjoy this!

http://despair.com/viewall.html

sidabrine

13th October 2006, 03:31 PM

markynz, Nelson rocks! :cheers We know it already! The reason we're stuck in Auckland is because I do technologies, innovation, academia, while my SO does media, entertainment, design. The only alternative option to Auckland for us would be Welly.

Or then learning something useful... :D

This has nothing to do with crime anymore... :cheers

Moorf

13th October 2006, 04:38 PM

I actually thought this thread was a great mix of good and bad - when I was first posting on this forum a few years back you rarely had the depth of experience to be able have a conversation like this as there were only a few members and most were in the UK!

As Av said, you don't have to agree with it all, having an opinion is all that is required and not taking it personally if someone else doesn't see the world the same way :yes

Diny

13th October 2006, 05:25 PM

With respect - there are a mix of negative posts, positive posts and in between posts. ANd thats about NZ AND the UK. Sometimes i wonder if im reading the same forum as everyone else.

What you have said about NZ (no money etc but the UK is heaven) is also said the other way round (UK is an unmitigated Hellhole and NZ nirvana) on here. Its a fair mix representing a fair difference in peoples points of view. I dont see your view of the UK any more than I see Sidabrines view of New Zealand, but that doesnt mean your view of the UK is wrong, anymore than Sidabrines view of NZ is wrong. It more than likely because I wouldnt for one minute choose to live near Liverpool, any more than I would want to live in Auckland.

You may find it soul destroying to hear NZ is Hell for somepeople, but they also may find it just as difficult to hear that the country of thier birth is so utterly depraved and violent - especially if for them, it wasnt anything like that.

For some people, NZ really may be everything they could ever want in life, but it wont be for everyone who makes the journey. Similarly, for some people, britain offers everything they could want. Is either side right? Actually - both sides are. Its not up to me where another person prefers to live, adn its not up to anyone else to tell me where I should live, especially when its based on THIER experiences and not mine.

This forum is NOT negative through and through and its unfair to claim that it is. Theres a MIX of views, some good, some bad. Why is it that there has to be a constant bashing of such posts (whether they are good or bad for NZ), instead of an acceptance that we all have a different POV based on the fact that we come from a different starting point. Many people spend a HUGE amount of time writing on here, and its getting tiring to be told that this is a completely negative place to visit. What on earth are we bothering for I wonder???? People are giving thier experiences, so that when YOU come, you will have some idea what to look out for, and can be prepared. Do they REALLY deserve to be looked down on and berated for it ????

Hopefully when you get here - you wont have any problems, and compared to your life back home - it will be brilliant for you and your family - but its worth sparing just a thought for those that ARE struggling to adapt. Becasue one day soon, you may just find you are in the same position, and that YOU struggle to adapt to life here. Its happened before.

:no Sorry to vent -Dont mean to offend anyone - but this is getting really a bit much!

I'm starting to sound like abit of a broken record here ... but once again Avalon you've posted some fantastic words.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of the way folks get 'barracked' for posting something negative and all thier positive comments are totally overlooked.

People need to take on board both positive and negative and find some kind of middle ground. I for one would NEVER decide whether to live in a place or not from what I read on a forum - but I find all the comments I read very interesting and thank everybody for taking the time to post their thoughts.

Avalon

13th October 2006, 05:36 PM

- but I find all the comments I read very interesting and thank everybody for taking the time to post their thoughts.
Me too.

Thank you to ALL those who post about thier experiences - good or bad. I personally have learned an awful lot from this forum, (even on stuff I dont agree with) and having been on some REALLY negative forums, I can honestly say that this is my favorite - which is why I spend so much time on here.

Its all good :raebanana

spudulike

13th October 2006, 09:15 PM

Avalon, another wonderful post which I think summed up the forum and the people on it perfectly! :nice1

Louise

pieeater

13th October 2006, 09:42 PM

Great post 'Avalon the Wise' sounds like someone from the court of King Arthur don't ya think.

Avalon

13th October 2006, 09:48 PM

Great post 'Avalon the Wise' sounds like someone from the court of King Arthur don't ya think.
:D I spent a little time there while at Uni - drinking lots of mead and getting into lots of trouble :D

jubjub

13th October 2006, 09:53 PM

:D I spent a little time there while at Uni - drinking lots of mead and getting into lots of trouble :D

and there was me thinking you only drank coffee..... http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/14.gif and were a model of good behaviour.... ;)

Smiler

13th October 2006, 10:21 PM

and there was me thinking you only drank coffee..... http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/14.gif and were a model of good behaviour....

I can spill beans for $$$$. :laugh

:p

;)

willsken

13th October 2006, 11:16 PM

Me too.

Thank you to ALL those who post about thier experiences - good or bad. I personally have learned an awful lot from this forum, (even on stuff I dont agree with) and having been on some REALLY negative forums, I can honestly say that this is my favorite - which is why I spend so much time on here.

Its all good :raebanana

Yes, I have to say some of the forums are really really negative! I was on one yesterday that really made me question my sanity making this move! This forum is a lot more balanced and has a great core of regular posters giving balanced views of the differences between UK and NZ.

Do you know what I think we all need? A personal forum buddy each, that we can match our own lives to.... people who lived the same type of UK life and have moved to the same kind of place in NZ! Presto, we would have THE answer we are all seeking (if we haven't already made the move) will our new life be better?!!!! :yes :D

willsken

13th October 2006, 11:28 PM

I am adding this post because on reading what I put about negative forums - there are also positive ones. I belong to one that is very very positive. :)

Diny

13th October 2006, 11:36 PM

Moorf

13th October 2006, 11:36 PM

Ditto

jubjub

13th October 2006, 11:44 PM

I think I must be the only person who doesn't look at other forums. This is the only one I'm a 'member' of. I have looked at a couple of others in the past (i.e. a couple of years or so ago) but soon lost interest.

Diny

I am not a member of any others, but pop in for a nosey now and then, there are some right good scraps gone on lately.... gawd knows what about, but I need the vicarious entertainment from time to time!

Trigirl

13th October 2006, 11:48 PM

i was a member of 3 but have given up on the other two and just post on / read this one now.

Avalon

14th October 2006, 12:06 AM

and there was me thinking you only drank coffee..... http://bestsmileys.com/drinking/14.gif and were a model of good behaviour.... ;)
Ah well, you see i cant really drink mead anymore , so I make do with coffee :D Besides - NZ Mead is like cats pee! Even though I cant drink it - I bought 6 bottles of the good stuff back from the UK in April, just so that if I get desperate (or theres a world wide coffee bean shortage) ill be ok :D

Avalon

14th October 2006, 12:08 AM

I can spill beans for $$$$. :laugh

Bribery and corruption will work every time!

(Im sweetness and light - honest)

Jani D

14th October 2006, 12:13 AM

Well thank you for your post. I am sorry that my post was misread.

I didnt CLAIM that the "forum was negative through and through", i was simple stating what someone asked me at a meet. Neither did i say it was COMPLETELY negative neither.

Beening a 'reader' of this forum for over 2 years i just see that the posting seem to have change, and asked had NZ changed in this time. (I was never confident enough to post in the past and couldnt get near the PC for Stevie anyway ;) , but was asked to come in my own name).

I have found that the people on here who do spend a HUGE amount of time give more of a realise view. As i said we dont want to come over like my friend quoted on the post did. For that i/we are are eternally grateful for. I have always been realise about OUR move and about NZ itself.

I am VERY sadden that YOU think that i REALLY look down on people, i am sorry that somewhere in my post i made people feel that. I am in no place to look down on anyone neither on here or in real life. I think most people who know me on here in real life, know am not the sort of person who looks down on anyone. As for looking down on peeps in NZ more the other way around (and not meaning NZ peeps look down on us - more like put you on a pedestal - look up to you). You have achieved something that all of us on here are striving for. The dream. Then to be told hey the dream is really a nightmare (i know its their right to say what's happening in their life) it can scare the life out of you. It's very powerful to hear about people experiences in NZ, whether it shouldnt matter or not, but it is. That's what we come on here for.
I am sorry once again to the people who thought i was looking down on them.

Yes i know i WILL struggle in NZ.

Anyway i am sorry that i offend so many people asking for the scales to be balanced and thank you for all your views.

So i'll go back to being a glance over Stevie shoulder.

K&CS

14th October 2006, 12:32 AM

Jani, please don't go back to being a glance over Stevie's shoulder! I think I might have missed something here, but I don't think anyone's said anything negative about you at all - on the contrary, Diny has said what a good post yours was!

I've enjoyed reading your posts recently. This is a public forum and people are always going to disagree (part of what makes it so interseting in my opinion), but you mustn't take it to heart. If I state my views,then I know someone will disagree - it doesn't matter - it's just my views they're disagreeing with (a bit like down at the pub on a Friday night) - it isn't personal - just part of the fun!!

You sound like you're a bit down about people's reaction to your comments and I'm sure no-one wants you to feel that way. Everyone must continue to express their opinions whatever they are (well within reason), or else there isn't any point in this forum!

Look forward to hearing from you again soon and you get that house sold now!!

Kate x

Lupin

14th October 2006, 12:36 AM

NZ Mead is like cats pee!

:no

Anyway i am sorry that i offend so many people asking for the scales to be balanced and thank you for all your views.

So i'll go back to being a glance over Stevie shoulder.

Don't do that Jani. I'm certain nobody would want that.... sometimes crossed wires about intention or expression happen easily online where we can't use body language.

willsken

14th October 2006, 01:43 AM

Jani please don't stop posting. :no I know how you are feeling. Sometimes things start to sound really negative on the forum when someone is having a hard time and want to share that with others.

We both know that things are going to be hard when we move and maybe things won't work out for us either, but when you are in the situation you are in at the moment and can't wait to get out of what some of us see as hell hole UK all that we want to read are the good things. I know there has to be a balance and that is a good thing. It's just very very hard reading sometimes.

:)

Debbie P.

14th October 2006, 02:13 AM

Hey Jani, I still reckon it's a conspiracy to keep us out - they're just enjoying themselves so much that they want to keep the population down :)

That IS a joke BTW! I enjoy all comments, bad or good.

Lupin

14th October 2006, 02:56 AM

willsken

14th October 2006, 03:38 AM

Also I have this theory that during the emigration process we need to see focus on the negatives about where we're intending to leave and the positives about where we're heading.....it gives us the energy to keep going with this slog. Sometimes I find some of the negative posts about NZ hard to digest but then I know that reading some of the negative posts here has made me a better potential immigrant to NZ because I'm much more aware of everything.

I agree. The negative posts have kept my feet on the ground. Sometimes they are just a bit hard to take and when there are days when most things seem negative it can get you down. I say seem because I think in threads where a lot of negative posts appear you tend to overlook the positive comments and focus on what you don't want to hear. :yes :roll

pieeater

14th October 2006, 08:20 AM

The written word can often can lose some of the subleties of the spoken one and misunderstandings can take place.I have enjoyed reading your's and Steve's posts.Keep it up.

Diny

14th October 2006, 08:23 AM

I totally agree with what has been said above. Don't you dare stop posting. I for one admire and appreciate your honesty. I would rather read your comments on the open forum than have some silly little comment left on my reputation by some lilly livered person who has to hide behind anonymity.

It's a fact that topics such as crime in NZ are going to attract a high volume of input. There are tonnes of other threads highlighting the good, positive sides of NZ, it's just that crime is a nagative - hence the large amount of negative comments.

You, Stevie, Mark and I know each other way beyond the forum, we are all aware of each others struggles both in the UK and here. Don't be put off, hang in there and we'll soon be heading off for that kayaking trip we talk so much about.

Don't stop posting!!

Diny

jubjub

14th October 2006, 03:07 PM

A story from the NZ Herald today... not a really serious or violent crime, but these poor kids dont stand much of a chance of being upright citizens of society with this kind of a role model .....

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10405904

Caroline and Dave

14th October 2006, 08:52 PM

Hi folks, I'd just like to add my bit re the negativity.

The reason we joined this forum was to get an overall picture of New Zealand. We want to hear the negative side aswell as the positive side.
If all you get is a lot of positive comments which is not the whole truth then whats the point in having a forum in the first place.
To give you an idea of this I am recovering from M.E and decided to join an M.E forum.There are some good points made on their but the majority of people are stuck in the negative mode and nothing will shift them.
They are convinced that exercise is bad for you and I agree that normal exercise is but over 4 years I have combined gentle exercise with meditation and energy work and I have almost made a full recovery.
But they will not listen and think I do not know what I am talking about believing that all exercise is bad for you. So I have now left. It is their loss,
not mine.
This forum is totally different . you have both the negative and the positive which is what you need. I need to know the negative and the positive so keep up the good work folks ( Jan and Stevie we need your input and I wish we were further up north then we could have met up. We are fully behind you on the crime side as we know where you are coming from)

All the best folks

Dave and Caroline

Brad77

14th October 2006, 10:01 PM

I really appreciate the honesty on these forums. I would rather know the good and bad and be realistic. I know the grass is not always greener etc and I am not expecting NZ to be paradise on earth but the pros outweigh the cons for me (coming from South Africa).

StevieD

15th October 2006, 12:46 AM

Hi gang, seems to have got a bit heated but the thing is that we are not saying the forum is negative, far from it because we all provide negative as well as positive things on here, and that is the attraction of it. It is the fact that somebody who went to our meet other week said that they decided against becoming a regular because they saw a large number of negative posts.
And anyone who knows Jan will know that she doesn't look down on anybody, and this was an accusation aimed at her which upset her a lot.

And Dave and Caroline, you don't get shut of me that easy!! :laugh Wonder where you are anyway? Jade country by the looks of it :) Not been down that way for a few years....

Steve

Trigirl

15th October 2006, 01:53 AM

A few thoughts on all of this as, as Steve says, its all got a bit heated.

I post regularly on three forums in totally different areas. This one, one on running and triathlon at www.runnersworld.co.uk and one on digital photography at www.tipsfromthetopfloor.com

They are all very friendly communities, where people go out of their way to try and help each other - not always the case in online forums I might add. They are in totally different areas of life but one thing they all have in common is something that pieeater referred to earlier and thats that without the context provided by body language and tone, things can occasionally come across differently to how you expected them to when you wrote them. I often write something, read it, re-write it about 3 times and occasionally eventually delete it because I can't be sure it puts across what I'm relaly trying to say. Most of us are not professional writers.

Anyone who participates regularly on a forum like this one will at some point or other be upset by something someone else has said. 99% of the time its because one of them has written something that hasn't come across as they intended it to.

In this situation Avalon said something that upset Jan. Do you really think that was her intention? Maybe she saw something in Jan's post that Jan didn't intend to be there? Maybe Jan saw something in Avalon's post that she didn't intend to be there? But communities like this survive anyway because people sort out those misunderstandings by talking about them.

"I don't look down on people what on earth makes you think I do" is a response that helps. "I don't look down on people and because you've said that I'm never posting on here again" doesn't. You effectively remove the other posters right to reply to you. And if we all responded to things we didn't like on here by going away then there'd be no community left. And that would be a great shame.

So anyway - Jan, please don't go. Many people have made it very clear that they want to hear and they respect your opinions. I'm one of them. And I'm sure you'd find that Avalon would say the same.

Mandy

Avalon

15th October 2006, 06:37 PM

So anyway - Jan, please don't go. Many people have made it very clear that they want to hear and they respect your opinions. I'm one of them. And I'm sure you'd find that Avalon would say the same.

Mandy
Yes I would!

Please let me be clear - I was actually upset about a few of Jan's posts, becasue more than one had suggested this was a negative forum. I have made it clear time and again that I feel EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion, and that includes Jan. I happened to dissaggree with it. I have not said that I think you should not post.

There are many things that are said on here, some general, some about me, that I find upsetting and hurtful. I choose to accept that and deal with it as best I can, and post anyway, because more people find my posts helpful than are offended by them. But I do have to accept that not everyone will like what I write, or the way I write it, or get my sense of humour (thats my dads fault!) . Its up to each of us to decide whether we can deal with someone dissagreeing with us or not. There have ceratinly been times when Ive questioned that myself.

At the end of the day - if any of us write a post on here, we have to accept that not everyone will like what we said. I know I will never be able to write posts on here that EVERYONE will appreciate, and frankly im not going to try. Neither will I stop posting - at least until ive run out of useful budgeting tips!

HTH

felix

15th October 2006, 07:32 PM

Sorry to be a killjoy here... But, I think, what everyone should consider and hear before coming here is something about crime situation here, as you don't find that in the glossy government brochures that immigration authorities so generously distribute.

Since we moved to Auckland (not even 2 months ago) we had

1) Car broken into, backpack with valuables stolen

2) Fled an armed bank robbery at a local shopping mall (Lynnmall on Oct 9, this is peaceful West, not South of Auckland, from where gang wars and murders are reported daily).

Nothing like this has ever happened to us anywhere else in the world (we have traveled half the world and for 2 years lived in Southeast Asia). It just seems that this country is full of happy go lucky cowboys and if you happen to be a law abiding citizen, well... to bad... your belongings can be taken at any point and you'd be lucky if you're not kept at a gunpoint while someone checks your pockets.

The attitude of police was, I'd say, very relaxed, when we reported the theft from our car. Obviously nobody has any expectations that our stuff would be recovered or that the thieves would be found.

I guess that completely depends on where you're coming from, but I would never consider NZ to be an idylic, pristine and safe place to bring up children. No matter what the government brochures are saying. This was a HUGE surprise for us. If you're coming from a law obiding society, you may be shocked. Just a word of warning....

You are not wrong mate..crime is everywhere. But in Auckland you are bound to suffer more than say Nelson or Waikanae where there are less people living. To come to NZ and think it is a cure all re crime is not wise, HOWEVER..inspite of 2 drive by shootings and drunken violence in the town centre in the early mornings our life here re crime which impacts upon us on a day to day basis is zero, whereas in Northampton we were plagued almost daily by crime directly.

At 3pm I am in bed (when all the drunken twats are slugging it out) I do go out regularly in town but always leave afore midnight and in 18 months I have never seen a fight. I am not a gang member so the drive by shootings do not impact upon me directly..although I cannot deny it is worrying!!

All in all our lives feel far safer than they did in Northampton. The neighbourhood we live in is virtually crime free. So it all depends on what you left behind..what your lifestyle is and where you live. NZ is near perfect for us but we understand it ain't that way for everyone..and NZ does have some BIG problems..all said we have benefitted hugely by our move inspite of the country's problems which are very real and apparent.

StevieD

16th October 2006, 02:58 AM

This forum is NOT negative through and through and its unfair to claim that it is. Theres a MIX of views, some good, some bad. Why is it that there has to be a constant bashing of such posts (whether they are good or bad for NZ), instead of an acceptance that we all have a different POV based on the fact that we come from a different starting point. Many people spend a HUGE amount of time writing on here, and its getting tiring to be told that this is a completely negative place to visit. What on earth are we bothering for I wonder???? People are giving thier experiences, so that when YOU come, you will have some idea what to look out for, and can be prepared. Do they REALLY deserve to be looked down on and berated for it ????

Avalon, having read this just now. properly I might add, I think there are some misconceptions on your behalf about what Jan actually wrote. You seem to be attributing things to Jan that she never said.

Jan was responding to the thread, it wasn't some personal bashing of the poster or view on the forum as being negative. We have been around on this forum for a long time now, and have seen every type of post under the sun. Yes, some may not make comfortable reading, but we are old enough and ugly enough to realise that. The post in question was I think the persons 3rd or 4th post. And that is what is irking us a bit, because it undermines all of the regular posters hard work and time. It was almost as if somebody was coming in just to cause a bit of upset, spread a bit of mischief. Maybe not, but that is the way it looked.

As somebody once said, she was only voicing an opinion, she wasn't insulting anyone, so why insult her?

As mentioned earlier, Jan doesn't look down on anyone, nor did anybody say that you said she shouldn't post. Maybe it is the forum, easy to misquote and hard to get your POV across sometimes. However, as a seasoned poster on another forum with just under 4000 posts, she is well aware how forums work.

It is not the fact that you disagreed with her Avalon, it is the personalised manner of the reply and a number of misquotes that caused upset. Jan has only made 7 posts on here, so we wonder where the few posts are that you were upset by? There were posts congratulating posters on issues and ones to friends, the only others were of personal experiences and said a lot of the things that you said to her.

Jan has sent a number of people to this forum from other forums, so if she thought bad of the forum, do you think she would be doing that?? Far from it. Jan said, as she said to somebody in a pm, that if her posts have come across as her looking down on people, then that is the reason she will not post any more, because she doesn't want anybody to interpret that she is looking down on people. If she does post, it will be on the nw meets or something similar, and will stay away from obviously contentious issues like crime in NZ, not wanting, as you said in your words, to be seen to be berating people.

Avalon

16th October 2006, 11:12 AM

Stevie D,

I have NOT insulted Jan and I resent your saying that I have. I did not aggree with her post (the one I responded to) and I did not agree with her first post either (where incidently we were told - or at least I read it this way) that due to the negativity on this board, you were no longer coming on here as much as you used to.As your posts are some I have enjoyed, I was actually concerned and upset by that thought (call me crazy).

It is entirely possible that I have misread Jans posts. I mean - you are accusing me of insulting her, and Im being blamed for upsetting and hurting her, and she seems to be saying that because of my post asking for a little balance here, shes leaving the forum. Oh dear - the Big Bad Avalon strikes again!

I honestly cannot in anyway know what Jan really means - I can only answer what I read. Is there any chance you can accept the possibilty that no - I dont know you or Jan personally and if I did, maybe I would have read her posts differently. But, and again, say this with respect to both of you, respect that I offered to Jan in the first place, you dont know me either. There are perhaps 6 people on this forum who have met me. 3 who know me well. That leaves 2473 people on here who have to read my posts without the benefit of knowing what sort of person I am behind the screen, and, like you are now, suddenly ascribing rather unpleasant motives to my posts.

Jan voiced an opinion that I disagreed with. With respect, I did feel that she was coming down on posters that were struggling. I did feel that she was saying NZ cant be as bad as all that, and the UK cant be as good as all that.

Im confused.The post in question was I think the persons 3rd or 4th post. And that is what is irking us a bit, because it undermines all of the regular posters hard work and time. It was almost as if somebody was coming in just to cause a bit of upset, spread a bit of mischief. Maybe not, but that is the way it looked.

You read four posts by a new poster and assume they are causing trouble and JAn posts. I dont read the same thing - I read a post that says someone is greatly unhappy in NZ and may need some help, and in another thread try to offer that help. Then, in JAns first post, she said about you not coming here so often. Her 6th post was one i replied to, again talking about these negative posts. I too was irked by what I saw as Jan also undermining all that positives that the Regular posters have to say. Now maybe im being a bit thick here - but where is the difference? How come its perfectly ok for Jan to raise an objection to a post or two that she feels undermines the work of this forum, but its not Ok for me to do the same thing if I feel that Jans post in itself does that?

I do not understand the difference here. And I really do not understand why you are intent on trying to make me feel bad about asking for a bit of balance and understanding of posters who are struggling.

Im sick to death of being treated like this. Jan - you want to complain on here about all the people saying its an godawful place - you are welcome to do that. Steve, you want to complain about how nasty I am (all of a sudden) - you are welcome to do so as well I guess. But please do spare a thought that not everyone can emigrate here and make it work. Just because someone comes on here and says they are struggling and hate it here - they are probably NOT trying to wind you up.

Debbie P.

17th October 2006, 12:48 AM

wolfysmith

17th October 2006, 02:11 AM

gil

17th October 2006, 02:59 AM

Unfortunately, it IS easy to feel insulted. For example, I was quite upset when I posted on this forum that (in my opinion), the UK is getting too crowded. I was quickly 'flamed' (? is that the term?) by a couple of posters who both said I was over-reacting. Actually, they misinterpreted what I'd said - and if they'd taken a few minutes to read my post properly they would have realised that.

I DID feel upset for about 5 minutes... but then I reflected that they probably mean to insult me - at least, I'm choosing to assume they didn't! I didn't get any apology when I pointed out the mistake, but that's beside the point. It's definitely put me off giving any VERY personal opinions on this forum. I'll ask for information and be thankful for everyone's advice, but I won't open myself to any misinterpretations in future. And maybe that's a good thing - maybe no one wants to hear my whinges about the UK anyway - it's not as if you haven't heard them all before :)

Good post Debbie (and sorry if I was one of the people who "flamed" :o). I find it interesting that (and here I expect to get flamed too!) so many people like to hear other people's negative views and opinions of something.
I'm sure there's some psychological category for this, but I'm someone who likes to focus on the positive (yes, almost exclusively) and to make my own mind up about things.

I've lost count of the number of clients who feel the need to share their negative opinions of their people who are undergoing training or coaching with me "to give me the full picture". I very rarely find their negative views corroborated by my own experience of said people, rather it says more about the "sharer" themselves.

I'm fine if people need to express disagreement about a view, but somethimes it can sound very personal (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, honest!!). Often that happens because we express disagreement with someone's experience, rather than their opinion. Technically, it's not actually possible to disagree with an experience, as unless the person is lying, that is what has happened in their world! So for someone else to come along and take issue can feel quite personal.

Not sure where this is going, but just thought I'd chip in :D

Keep up the good work forumites, we need each other to get through this thing!!

Gil

Debbie P.

17th October 2006, 03:38 AM

I'm fine if people need to express disagreement about a view, but somethimes it can sound very personal (this is not aimed at anyone in particular, honest!!). Often that happens because we express disagreement with someone's experience, rather than their opinion. Technically, it's not actually possible to disagree with an experience, as unless the person is lying, that is what has happened in their world! So for someone else to come along and take issue can feel quite personal.

Gil

Thanks Gil, you've put it much better than I could have. I know I can be over-sensitive, and so I need to step away from the PC occasionally (quite literally) and tell myself it's not personal... I know that's not easy if you feel you're been attacked, but I truly believe that in the overwhelming majority of cases on this forum, people really don't mean to do that.

willsken

17th October 2006, 03:53 AM

but I truly believe that in the overwhelming majority of cases on this forum, people really don't mean to do that.

I agree. I think sometimes things get to a point and no one really knows how it ended up there. (If you know what I mean..... not sure that even made sense to me!! :roll )

Diny

17th October 2006, 08:22 AM

NZ is like anywhere else. Yes it has crime and the kind of social problems that lead to crime. Anyone who thought that NZ would be some idylic crime free land is living in a dream world. Just watch 'Once were Warriors' to see the kind of things I'm talikng about.
NZ has problems with drugs, a drink culture on a par with the UK and the kind of social problems that you find all over the world. You are just as likely to be victim of crime in NZ as you are anywhere else.
We were amazed when we lived in Tauranga to find so many people we knew who left windows open and the door unlocked when they went out and had no burglar alarm. The perception of the levels of crime are quite low in NZ and hence why. However, when we were there we read in the local paper about a guy was up in court for over 100 burglaries. He simply sneaked in to most properties due to the windows open etc. Simply precautions would have deterred him in most cases. Same if you leave something inviting on your passenger seat of your car. Someone will have a go.
NZ is no better nor any worse than the rest of the world. Don't expect to go to NZ and find yourself in some utopian, crime free, land of the rich because it don't exist on this planet.

Totally agree !!! New Zealand IS a fantastic place, and for those of you not yet here I'm pretty confident that you'll love it here. However (for me) the above posting sums it up to a 'T'. I can honestly say, hand on heart, that I see absolutely no improvement in mankind and their associated habits (both good and bad) here in NZ over anywhere else in the world that I've visited/lived.

I don't see it so much as stating negative or positive comments, I simply see it as stating the facts as they are presented to me.

But hey ..... I'll probably get a 'flaming' for saying that.

Diny

veronica

17th October 2006, 06:30 PM

got to agree, think that if you took 100 people from any country in the world they would be the same mix of criminals, rogues and normal law abiding people. would also expect the sme ratio of good kindhearted and meanies too.

Debbie P.

17th October 2006, 10:15 PM

I cried when I saw the news last night about that poor little boy who was killed so viciously by the teenager. I don't know why it affected me so much more than any other story - think it was the fact that the kid had cystic fibrosis and must have been through so much already and yet he looked so sparky and bright in the photos of him.

But what turned that teenager into a killer? There was talk of bullying at school and him wanting to hurt someone less powerful than himself... but wasn't there ALWAYS bullying of some nature, surely it doesn't turn everyone into a killer? I just don't understand how young people have become so violent in the last 5, 10, 20 years, whatever?

It's very hard to feel any kind of optimism for the future when something like this happens somewhere pretty much every day - wherever you're living.

Lupin

18th October 2006, 12:35 AM

I just don't understand how young people have become so violent in the last 5, 10, 20 years, whatever?

Debbie, I don't want to negate how upsetting that story is or your feelings about it, which I share, but children that kill are very rare and not exclusive to recent times. I don't know if young people have become more violent in the past twenty years or whether their activities tend to be more supervised and behaviour seized upon by the media, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not belittling the effect of such crime, just expressing that I'm unsure about the notion that it is a recent phenomena.

Very sad story though :(

Debbie P.

18th October 2006, 12:48 AM

I agree that murder is rare, but I still feel that there is a general rise in levels of aggression - either that or children used to be better disciplined.

I can only go by some of the incidents that my husband and sister (both teachers) tell me about - e.g. in the last year, my husband had to calm down a boy who was threatening to throw a chair at a fellow teacher, heavily pregnant and cowering in a corner, and my sister was recently physically attacked by a boy who was bigger than her... and she's a primary school teacher. I'm sure Nicola can tell plenty of stories too.

Don't get me wrong, don't want to bring back the cane or anything(!), but when I was a kid, I was genuinely scared of my parents finding out if I did something wrong - and not because they would have smacked me, either, but because something told me that it was a BAD IDEA for adults/authority/the police to be angry with me. Do you think that kids nowadays have that same restraint? I know some that do, but there must be loads out there who just don't care.

Diny

18th October 2006, 08:20 AM

Do you think that kids nowadays have that same restraint? I know some that do, but there must be loads out there who just don't care.

I know I run the risk of sounding like my grandmother here, but ...... in answer to your question, yes - my kids have the exact same restraints put on them as I did when I was their age.

It's all very well blaming the kids but if the adults stepped up to the plate and did their job properly in the first place it would go a long way to help eliminate the problem of 'wayward kids'.

I know that sounds like a very general solution to the problem but it's also a very obvious, simple one.

The other day I happened to be in town when the high school kids were coming out of school. They were yelling and shoving, shouting swear words and insulting names to each other across the street, looking like they'd been dragged thrugh a hedge backwards, and the local shop keeper was standing in his doorway only allowing 2 kids at a time to go in and stock up on their cans of fizzy and handfuls of lollies. (Here comes the grandmother bit again) - when I was a school kid I would NEVER have acted like that simply because a) I had been brought up to understand that one doesn't behave like that and b) because I knew that I would get a right royal rollocking if Mum & Dad got to find out.

I strongly believe that it's the cause (parents) that need dealing with rather than the symptom (kids).

Diny

willsken

18th October 2006, 09:52 AM

I'm sure Nicola can tell plenty of stories too.

I assume you mean me! (ass out of you and me and all that!!)

This is such a hard area to get any clear answer. Yes I think the level of violence is going up amongst our youth. It has always been around but what worries me is the acceptance of violence.

I work in an average comprehensive school. It has a great mix of students from all walks of life, except maybe the very well off. When you talk to a child you can normally tell, very quickly, what background they are from. I don’t however believe this is the only factor that creates the attitude that accepts violence. I believe that TV and video games play a big part in what is going wrong in society. I have always been very strict about these things with my boys and will continue to do so for as long as possible.

Now addressing the things that go on in schools. I must clarify that if you are lucky enough to live in certain areas then your children are not going to be exposed to some of the worse behaviour in school. I am on the senior management on call list. I am called out in my free lessons to support colleagues when they have an incident in their classroom, so yes I do see some very bad behaviour. I won’t give examples as the list could be very long indeed. What I do find worrying is the lack of consequence for some of the students. When I was at school I remember a boy hitting a teacher and he was escorted from the premises never to return. Last year I remember being at a union meeting because a supply teacher had been hit with a chair and the pupil in question had a couple of days exclusion. As teacher this seems to be part and parcel of the job now.

The problem is there really is no easy answer. Do we just throw the “undesirables” out of school and forget them, letting the rest of society deal with the fall out? No, there has to be a better way. Trouble is I don’t see that keeping them in an education system that doesn’t suit them is the answer either.

I blame a lot of what goes on, on the “inclusive” education system we have in this country. All kids have to have the same lessons and no one can be treated differently. Great in an ideal world but this isn’t. When you have kids sitting hour after hour not having a clue about the things we are teaching them then of course you are going to get bad behaviour. In Welsh schools Welsh and French are a compulsory subjects. Now, we have many children who struggle with English, can’t read or write, and they have to sit through these lessons. What do we expect from them? Surely they would benefit from extra reading and writing, learning practical skills that will give them a chance in society.

I also want to share something that changed me when I was starting out as a teacher. I worked in quite a hard school. I remember having a young boy in my registration class. (12years old) He drove me mad as he was always late for registration and no matter how much I told him off he never managed to get in on time. One day I was chatting to him and he told me about his little 5 year old sister. He really loved her but it was hard going looking after her all the time. Mum wouldn’t get up in the morning so he has to “see” to her. He made her breakfast, dressed her and took her to school. That’s why he was always late. I looked at that boy and though about his life and though “Wow, I moan because he is late for school, when really we are lucky he comes in at all”

I’ve many heart breaking stories about the lives some children live. This will be the case in every country. What I do find hard to accept in the UK is how many children live like this. It maybe hard for some to accept but it really is a lot.

I love working with these children. Always have. What I won’t accept is that my sons have to go through the education system in this country. We don’t have any “good” schools in our area. I know that my boy’s will have less (not none) of the exposure to this behaviour in NZ.

Sorry for the long post…… although I could go on …. and on …… heartfelt issue :uhoh

willsken

18th October 2006, 09:55 AM

I strongly believe that it's the cause (parents) that need dealing with rather than the symptom (kids).

Diny

For once Diny.... 100% agree!!!!! :raebanana

Diny

18th October 2006, 10:16 AM

For once Diny.... 100% agree!!!!! :raebanana

It had to happen sooner or later I guess !!

K&CS

18th October 2006, 12:45 PM

Regarding the awful subject of child kinapping and murder. I remember 4 years ago after the nation (UK) had spent the week desperately hoping that Holly and Jessica would be found alive, then getting the awful news that they'd been murdered, that we all pretty much had the same reaction - ie what is the world coming to? On a news programme at the time, an expert in this type of crime said that there were actually more reported cases of child kidnapping and murder 30 years ago than there are today. The difference is that our communication systems are so much better now and we now get to hear of them. Paedophiles and pychopaths and murderers aren't a new thing - they've been around forever - there have always been low lifes in society. I think a lot of us tend to believe that they are a product of modern times, but that isn't the case.

It's hard but kids need to have their freedom - it's important to remember how rare this type of crime is.

Carol

18th October 2006, 12:57 PM

As teacher this seems to be part and parcel of the job now.

The problem is there really is no easy answer. :uhoh

Totally agree.

And I've had enough after 17 years..... I resigned last week.:eek:

From all accounts my class are missing me....they have a reliever for the rest of the year.

But before I went crazy - I had to go.

I used to love teaching - it was something I had always wanted to do - and I enjoyed the first 15 years with passion and pride.

But I burnt out.
The demands on teachers are enormous. Particularly from parents in the level of decile school I have worked in here.

And from various accounts - I'm not the only one who this has happened to and it seems to be happening more and more.
Not just in the UK - I have been teaching here for 10 years.
(SAT free thank god!)

Avalon

18th October 2006, 01:02 PM

Totally agree.

And I've had enough after 17 years..... I resigned last week.:eek:

From all accounts my class are missing me....they have a reliever for the rest of the year.

But before I went crazy - I had to go.
!)[/i]
Carol,

I take my hat off to you. Thats a very brave thing to do and I have absolute admiration for doing this. I hope your future is brighter for having done this :cheers

Carol

18th October 2006, 01:07 PM

I took me a couple of months to make the decision Avalon....have been on sick leave for that long.

But to be honest - I havent regretted it once since I decided.

If you are on a trapeze - you have to let go of one bar, and fly for a while before you can grab hold of the next one.

That flying thing is a scary thing to do though!

Smiler

18th October 2006, 04:44 PM

If you are on a trapeze - you have to let go of one bar, and fly for a while before you can grab hold of the next one.

That flying thing is a scary thing to do though!

Nicely put lassie! :clap:clap

You looked better on Saturday than when I last saw you. Keep up the good work. :nice1:nice1

jo-and-jeff

18th October 2006, 05:43 PM

This Forum serves as different things for different people:
a "how-to" on Immigration
a source of encouragement and support
a source of realistic information on NZ
a source of miscellaneous unrelated information
a way to socialize with people with whom we have something in common

While we personally (jo-and-jeff) have participated for all of these reasons, the most important has been to get all of the information we aren't going to find in the NZ Tourism materials. We can get the positive sales pitch elsewhere; we come here to get the truth, however unpalatable it may be at times.

I suspect that the members here who feel that the information is overwhelmingly negative do so because their main purpose in coming here is for the encouragement, support, and validation of their decision to emigrate.

There's nothing wrong with having that as a priority; but it's important to remember that we can't expect other Forum members to tailor their posts to what we feel is most important, and we can't expect them to not say things we'd rather not hear.

Everyone's experience is different. The beauty of this Forum is that we get to share other peoples' experiences and are not limited to just our own.