[sidabrine]

Sorry to be a killjoy here... But, I think, what everyone should consider and hear before coming here is something about crime situation here, as you don't find that in the glossy government brochures that immigration authorities so generously distribute.

Since we moved to Auckland (not even 2 months ago) we had

1) Car broken into, backpack with valuables stolen

2) Fled an armed bank robbery at a local shopping mall (Lynnmall on Oct 9, this is peaceful West, not South of Auckland, from where gang wars and murders are reported daily).

Nothing like this has ever happened to us anywhere else in the world (we have traveled half the world and for 2 years lived in Southeast Asia). It just seems that this country is full of happy go lucky cowboys and if you happen to be a law abiding citizen, well... to bad... your belongings can be taken at any point and you'd be lucky if you're not kept at a gunpoint while someone checks your pockets.

The attitude of police was, I'd say, very relaxed, when we reported the theft from our car. Obviously nobody has any expectations that our stuff would be recovered or that the thieves would be found.

I guess that completely depends on where you're coming from, but I would never consider NZ to be an idylic, pristine and safe place to bring up children. No matter what the government brochures are saying. This was a HUGE surprise for us. If you're coming from a law obiding society, you may be shocked. Just a word of warning....

[Stapleton-Gray]

Hi

I do think that there is no more crime here than anywhere else in the world. I also have travelled all over and seen some pretty horrific things. Generally in America, Houston and such places, people coming into stores and literally shooting people leaving them to bleed! And from hometoen of London, at least 10 people I know from London have been victims of serious crimes and we lived in a very quiet, wealthy neighbourhood.

I firmly believe with the lack of population here it seems more obvious when things happen and is brought to your attention easier.

I often read the papers and have the odd moment when I think 'oh thats awful and really disturbing' but I have to be totally honest and say that far worse things happened on a much regular basis in London but just never made it to national papers and stuff because there was no point in reporting another shoot out, or another attempted bank robbery.

I hope that makes sense. I try not to do comparisons with other places as I chose to live here and don't want to keep comparing it with London or elsewhere but you do have to think to yourself, ok the ratio of population is so extreme here that everything is bound to seem worse.

I say, don't worry about it, crime is everywhere and at some point we will all be affected by it no matter where you are. I'd say be thankful we are now living in a place that can at least try and control the issues within its small population instead.

[Moorf]

Wow Sid, you're really on a downer aren't you :uhoh although from the sounds of it (furniture/income and now burglaries :( ) you're having a really crappy time of it. I think I too would be hating it here if I'd gone through all you have. It's not all like that, honest. :no

I'm a complete worry-bucket when it comes to personal safety, especially out here in the sticks, and compared to rural Scotland I feel a heck of a lot safer here.... a city is a city and I treat any city the same, I don't walk alone at night or put myself in a situation that would put me or my property at risk... but I have to say that even in the suburb of Sumner I'd walk the dog alone late at night and feel quite safe. One bad experience though and my confidence would be shattered, as yours has been.

Are you going to stay here do you think?

[JCM]

In the better part of a decade in Christchurch I've not experienced any crime so I personally am not horrified by crime in New Zealand.

[Diny]

crime is everywhere and at some point we will all be affected by it no matter where you are. .


This is very true. Maybe crime out here isn't so 'in your face' but it does exist - it IS very real.

Diny

[marcia]

It is frightening when its on your doorstop - last month half a mile from my mums in a quiet village, a taxi drivers was attacked and killed by teenagers, last week in a pub two minutes from our house a man was shot, and a couple of days later a car and van held up by people with guns, and this is on my doorstep in the uk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think where ever you go in the world where there are people there will be crime!!!! :(


But, I'd prefer to take my chances in NZ where there are fewer people!! :roll

Good luck and hope it hasn't put you off too much!

[Jani D]

yeah or worst that, there was a shooting down the road from ours a couple of months and it didnt even make the news - local never mind national.

Hope things start going your way soon :)

[Caroline and Dave]

Sid, I am sorry to hear about your break in and I am in agreeance with others in this post that crime is everywhere, unfortunately wherever there is man there is crime. Just to put it in respective I have looked in our local paper and what now follows is the crime in one week in our borough and this is just the headline stuff. We live within the M25 in what is looked on in our area as a respectable area
1)Man pushed in front of train by dug addict ( He was killed)
2)Drugs sold outside primary School
3)Thieves steal charity box
4)Sex attacker leaves woman traumatised after she is raped
5)Youths smash up 15 shops in Town
6) 21 year old girl killed by hit and run driver
7)Train derailed by youths throwing bricks
8)Drugs and sub machine guns found in quiet suburban street
9)Old age pensioners 82 & 77 tied up and robbed of all their savings
10) 18 gravestones smashed by youths in local churchyard.

There has so far been six murders this year in our borough.

I apologise if this is upsetting but I find it very hard to believe that Newzealand can be any worse than this. It is very good that these things are discussed on the forum as it does give people a warning if you like but as I have said on another thread theres no such thing as the perfect place.The perfect place does not exist
I wish everyone good health and happiness in New zealand


Dave and Caroline

[StevieD]

not forgetting the local "gang leader" who was duped into visiting an "assosiate" in prison and having his head blown apart in the prison car park!! Half a mile as the crow flies...
All the shops on his "turf" told to close as a mark of respect by the little toe rags who remain of his gang:mad:
Drive by machine gunnings, drugs everywhere, gangland executions, pensioners beaten up, blind people robbed, graves constantly being smashed... the list is endless.

Lest we forget, there is a huge population difference. But, I have just heard on the radio that the home office is now offering "foreign" prisoners incentives of up to £2500 for them to go home to free up places in UK prisons!! You just can't write it can you..... :roll

[Ana&Steve]

Sidabrine, I'm so sorry those things happened to you. I know the sick feeling one gets after a violation like that. If NZ was a dream for you, please don't let scumbags take it away. You can turn the bad feelings around; for the sake of your future, and of those who are still dreaming. :yes
Ana

[able]

your belongings can be taken at any point and you'd be lucky if you're not kept at a gunpoint while someone checks your pockets.


i'm sorry, but this is just undiluted nonsense.

[veronica]

Sidabrine, where abouts are you from originally. We are from a small village in essex and although we were never personally affected by crime it certainly went on in the Towns around us. We have been more affected by close proximity to crime since we have lived here in Chch but I would put that down to city living rather than a rural village, more than NZ ovr the UK. I am sure if we had lived in a city in the UK then we would have had a different experience to our quiet village there.

[Diny]

Sidabrine, where abouts are you from originally. We are from a small village in essex and although we were never personally affected by crime it certainly went on in the Towns around us. We have been more affected by close proximity to crime since we have lived here in Chch but I would put that down to city living rather than a rural village, more than NZ ovr the UK. I am sure if we had lived in a city in the UK then we would have had a different experience to our quiet village there.


Spot on !!! This is exactly the same experience/situation as ourselves.

Diny

[markynz]

please remember you're in auckland which is a major city. Try moving somewhere else, Nelsons great !

[Bruckner]

My downstairs neighbor is now on the run from police after it was discovered she has been using the identity of a girl who mysteriously went missing back in 1999 and hasn't been seen since. We've had two major fires in the building, one which killed an elderly resident and the other when I was seven months pregnant, on bed rest no less, and had to be helped out by the NYFD. As of recent we had a subletter who turned his apartment into a crack and prostitution den before the landlord confronted him, the phone booth on the corner has been the "office" for a local dealer (and you won't believe what people will do in this booth to score some crack) and not too long ago Greg took the dog out for a walk and there was a man laying in the street who had just been stabbed. Oh, and the guy directly across the courtyard needs to install blinds. Unless he really enjoys having people watch him, if you get my drift. And this is just my block! LOL!

Emily

[veronica]

Odd how peoples perception is coloured by different things. sometimes it seems that we can only see the bad things and get so blinkered by them that the normal everyday good stuff gets overlooked.

Our daughter runs a scout troop in one of the worst areas of Auckland and loves it, her car has never been tagged while she is there and she has personally never wittnessed any crime there. The kids she deals with there all have brothers who are into the gang culture and she knows that a lot of the kids themselves will drift that way. Its a troop with a very mixed ethnic base and they all seem to get along fine, they are mega protective of her and have some really good traits.

We have just had a group of 13 yr olds staying here in the hostel from nice white middleclass families and they were so self centred that it was a bit of an eyeopener to me. Individually to me and Pete they were fine but their behaviour to each other and lack of consideration to those around them was a bit of a shock.

Not quite on the crime theme that has been going on more a personal view of the good and bad that is about.

[Diny]

A big story which is in the news at the moment (apologies if it's been covered elsewhere). On saturday night a group of young adults were outside a party in Auckland. A driver deliberately ran into them knocking people flying in all directions. A young girl (21 I think) was helping one of her injured friends, when the driver of the car came back and ran her over too - killing her. We hear this morning that a 2nd person involved in the accident has died too.

Have been listening to a talk show on the radio this morning and the main topic being discussed is the horrific crime levels in NZ and how something needs to be done before the entire country goes to the dogs.

I know this kind of things happens everywhere, it's just interesting (for me) to read the gripes members of this forum have about wherever they are living at the moment, then listening to an NZ phone in radio station discussing the exact same things about NZ.

Diny

[Smiler]

I'd read that story in the press too Diny. Very sad.

I read about the crimes here and to me it's like reading my local paper back home, except that the paper couldn't print all the stories anymore.

I moved from a high crime rate area of South London to Surrey/Sussex. The crimes changed, in the country all the farm gates were nicked instead of cars.

It pays to be aware of your own security and and your valuables at all times anyway. Never leave valuables in the car, even in the boot or glove box. Burdens Gate beach is well known locally for car theft and there is always glass on the ground. People park there going off for long tramps and are watched locking their valuables in their car before they go on their 4 hour walk. On their return, smashed window and everything gone. (The only consolation there is that there is only one main road out of EB and the police are often waiting for the offenders in Seaview :clap if the report goes through in time)

I also worked for a police force in the UK and was much more exposed to the level of reported crime than I am now, so my perception has shifted too. However, I still feel safer here but am still aware of the risks and we do as much as we can to minimize them as any sensible person does.

[Carol]

And in 10 years....the only place here that I have experienced full on crime was Auckland.

Just MY experience though......I dont live in an area of Wellington that presents serious crime problems.

Deliberately!

[pieeater]

I'm so sorry that you have suffered those awful experences so early on in your time here,I should imagine you are pretty upset right now.Although with only having had packages stolen from our mailbox by some 'Hoaries' that have since left the area,and tools stolen at work we have not suffered too personally thus far.However we are dissapointed by the amount of crime here.When you think about it,(just thinking out loud here) there are only 4.5 million people here,how many are young children?,how many are pensioners?,I figure there must be about 2 million adults?to me there seems to be an inordinate amount of sculduggery(do you like that) going on for that amount of folk.

[sarahw]

Sorry this happened to you - it is stink. I'm with Smiler here, you should always take valuables with you and be careful and trust noone - this does happen in most places in the world - opportunists that see a bag are going to break into a car and take them wherever you are parked - driveway at home, middle of a city or at a tourist spot - or small village.

There is no more crime here than elsewhere, you have just been unlucky.

Gosh, when I worked in Bracknell people would sit outside our company (I worked for a computer co.) and follow people who had laptop bags - if they stopped for petrol or to meet friends at a pub on the way home leaving the bag locked in the boot of the car (not on show) - they would get broken into and stolen (yes on a petrol forecourt whilst they were in the queue to pay!).

We lived in a very nice place in the UK - Ascot - my mother has been held at gunpoint in the little village post office in a hold-up. It didn't make it into even the local newspaper because this type of thing happens all the time. At least here most stuff makes the news because of the population size.

It does surprise me when tourists come here from countries where there is crime (UK, USA etc.) and then are shocked when their camper vans get broken into & valuables stolen - many people seem to think that NZ is crime free, its certainly not as in your face as it is in the UK, but its still here. Overall I feel a heck of a lot safer here than I did in the UK - I can walk in the city at any time of night on my own & not feel threatened - never could have done that even in West Bylfleet or Ascot where we lived before we moved. There seems to be a lot less teenage mindless vandalism here - I personally feel the kids have more to do.

Try and be careful & if Auckland isn't working out for you is there any way you can move somewhere less populated?

[spudulike]

Sorry for your bad luck. It's a real shame to have had these things happen to you. I agree that NZ is not a safe haven but I also think you have probably been particularly unlucky too.

It's quite funny reading these types of threads as it seems that wherever people are coming from in the UK they can't walk down the street without being mugged, raped, shot etc then a miracle they manage to get back to a house that hasn't been burgled or burnt down :laugh :laugh But seriously, I know there is crime in the UK but it isn't as bad as the stories I read on these forums! As for the notion that EVERY crime here in NZ makes the headlines that is not true either I'm afraid. As in any Country some of the worst crimes make the headlines (as the one Diny has discussed earlier) but there are many more that don't.

I never felt outwardly threatened or particularly safe in the UK and I don't feel any different here either. I certainly don't agree that this is a place where my children will be safer (this country has one of the highest rates of child abuse in OECD Countries) nor do I feel they will respect their elders more for living here as I have read numerous times or have a better childhood. They will have a great childhood because that is what we will provide for them and we hope to keep them as safe as possible and teach them good morals - wherever we live. I know it's natural to only see the good in the place you're moving to and the bad in the place you're leaving behind but in reality they are both very similar!

I think crime here will probably get worse as it is in any Country and people need to take the same sensible precautions they would anywhere else.

Anyway, sorry it's a bit of a ramble and probably off the point but I have my 2 year old helping me type so cannot organise my thoughts coherently :roll

Louise

[jubjub]

A big story which is in the news at the moment (apologies if it's been covered elsewhere). On saturday night a group of young adults were outside a party in Auckland. A driver deliberately ran into them knocking people flying in all directions. A young girl (21 I think) was helping one of her injured friends, when the driver of the car came back and ran her over too - killing her. We hear this morning that a 2nd person involved in the accident has died too.


This happened just down the road from us, and this is not a bad area at all, very sad, but looks like they found the driver and have charged him.

Crime is just about everywhere, in fact I was having this same conversation the other day. Auckland does seem to get a lot of crime, but as yet I have not been directly affected by it, or know anyone close to me that has (so far, and yes I am touching wood as I type this!).

I dont think there is anywhere in the world where you will not find crime in some form or another, you just have to decide how much you let it intimidate your daily life. I do feel safer here than I did in Glasgow, but not as safe as I did in my little home town of just 2000 folks... its just what you are used to I suppose.

[K&CS]

Louise, I don't come from a high crime area in the UK either and was always very fortunate there, as I am here, not to have every encountered any real crime (touch wood). However, I don't for one minute imagine that the people on here who tell their tales of crime in the UK/US/South Africa etc are making it up. There are some places where there is a very high level of crime and some awful things happen - those of us who are lucky enough not to have experienced it should just consider ourselves very fortunate!

Kate

[spudulike]

Louise, I don't come from a high crime area in the UK either and was always very fortunate there, as I am here, not to have every encountered any real crime (touch wood). However, I don't for one minute imagine that the people on here who tell their tales of crime in the UK/US/South Africa etc are making it up. There are some places where there is a very high level of crime and some awful things happen - those of us who are lucky enough not to have experienced it should just consider ourselves very fortunate!

Kate

Hi Kate,

Sorry, it was never my intention to say people made up these stories at all but it's just when people only post the bad (about here or there) I think perspective can be lost. There are posts about the UK that make me wonder where on earth people are living and there is also a generalisation in some posts that that the whole of the UK is a crime ridden place where you cannot walk down the street safely and I just simply do not agree. I realise there are places there where that is the situation but I do honestly believe it isn't the majority!

I don't think anywhere is ALL bad or ALL good whether it is NZ or UK. I never actually mentioned SA as I have not got the experience or cannot even begin to imagine living amongst the type of crime there is there. I also never mentioned the US as I have never lived there.

As for the UK, yes I did know of crime in York, there were murders, muggings, rapes etc - as there have been in NZ since I moved here. The only point I was making was that people are not coming to a safe haven here as there is serious crime here aswell.

Sorry for any offence :(

Louise

[K&CS]

Louise - none caused to me - I just realise that some people have it very tough where they are, that's all! No, I just thought I'd add US and SA into the discussion as I've read quite a few horrendous stories from posters from those places too. It's all relative - depends on what you're used to, I guess and also where you move to!

I didn't realise you were from York - I'm from Harrogate and lived in York for a while - have had some great nights out there!
Kate

[spudulike]

Louise - none caused to me - I just realise that some people have it very tough where they are, that's all! No, I just thought I'd add US and SA into the discussion as I've read quite a few horrendous stories from posters from those places too. It's all relative - depends on what you're used to, I guess and also where you move to!


Couldn't agree more :yes

My brother is from Harrogate - had some great nights out there too :cheers

Louise

[Diny]

It's quite funny reading these types of threads as it seems that wherever people are coming from in the UK they can't walk down the street without being mugged, raped, shot etc then a miracle they manage to get back to a house that hasn't been burgled or burnt down :laugh :laugh But seriously, I know there is crime in the UK but it isn't as bad as the stories I read on these forums! As for the notion that EVERY crime here in NZ makes the headlines that is not true either I'm afraid. As in any Country some of the worst crimes make the headlines (as the one Diny has discussed earlier) but there are many more that don't.

I never felt outwardly threatened or particularly safe in the UK and I don't feel any different here either. I certainly don't agree that this is a place where my children will be safer (this country has one of the highest rates of child abuse in OECD Countries) nor do I feel they will respect their elders more for living here as I have read numerous times or have a better childhood. They will have a great childhood because that is what we will provide for them and we hope to keep them as safe as possible and teach them good morals - wherever we live. I know it's natural to only see the good in the place you're moving to and the bad in the place you're leaving behind but in reality they are both very similar!



Some very valid points here. I know there are some really bad places in the UK and wild horses wouldn't make me live there. I have some very close forum mates who are in a living hell at the moment and can't wait to leave their particular area. I 100% believe everything they report and can totally understand why they have become so bitter towards their mother country. Kate is right - those of us who don't come from areas like that need to realise how lucky we are.

However, I also have to agree with Louise to a large extent. The focus is nearly always put on the 'bad' side of the UK (which is understandable), but I feel there needs to be abit of balance here. I never felt threatened, I was never mugged, raped or robbed at knife point. My kids were never offered drugs outside the school gates, there were no gangs lurking on street corners etc.

Yes, I agree I am very lucky, but surely for me (and others) to experience such a crime free life in the UK is proof alone that it ain't all bad over there.

Once again, it all depends on your experiences before you arrive in NZ as to how you'll view the crime over here. For those from inner city, high crime rate areas, you'll fine NZ is a breath of fresh air where you will feel alot safer and happier. For those who come from quiet, rural areas, you may well (like me) find that your are more exposed to crime here in NZ.

It's all relative, there's no right or wrong way of looking at this. I think the main message is to be 'safe aware'. Look out for yourselves, your family and friends. Be alert !!! New Zealand needs lerts.

Diny

[sidabrine]

Hi there again, just to put things in perspective, I was born in Lithuania, lived 7 years in Helsinki (Finland), 2 years in Singapore and spent some time in Indonesia, Philipines, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. Most of the places I lived were the largest cities (or capital cities) in the area (Singapore doesn't count, as you would be hanged for possessing an illegal weapon, thats a whole another story).

Never before anything has been stolen from me (not even pickpocketed!), neither have I ran for my life after hearing gunshots behind my back. Until yesterday's incident at Lynn Mall that is:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10405163

I'm always the one who accuses media of playing up the crimes so that they can sell the newspapers (had countless argues about that with my husband, tried to dig out all sorts of statistical evidence that NZ crime rates are not any different from other countries), but after yesterday's encounter I'm not so sure anymore.

Obviously I'm relatively alert, as I dashed outside as soon as I heard the bangs, but how otherwise can I stay away from this sort of situations? How can I use my common sense to avoid things like that? I don't walk in the dark, lock our house and my office doors, never leave anything on display in our car (anymore:). Should I also not go groccery shopping in the closest shopping mall on Monday afternoons just before the banks close?

I know, I know, I know, we've just been exceptionally unlucky, thats what everybody says. But I also think that these things should be advertised for potential immigrants. Based on our travel experience here and the image that NZ (tourism board?) projects for the people outside, I expected to find something slightly better than Finland (crimewise) before moving here. Sadly the reality is a bit more "interesting".

Just waiting what "surprises" tomorrow will bring... :) And yes, if you move here, take the best insurance there is in the market (for your house, your car, your house contents, your health.. anything that you can afford). You won't regret that! Good luck and good night...

[StevieD]

I agree that we shouldn't go into the "all the UK is bad" theme, but when you are talking about crime and you have came from a country, like it or not, that has an enormous problem with yobbery and gang crime, you cannot but help highlight those events that are HURTING you. It hurts me to see people cowering in their homes at night, who won't go out because of uncontrollable thugs, who have no respect for themselves, let alone any laws. It hurts me when a friend of mine tells me her friend had a bottle put in her face because she had the audacity to remonstrate with a gang of youngsters who were calling her a slag, and what her husband was going to do to her when he got home, all drunk of course, while they smashed up the childrens play area; the very same play area provided by a family in memory of their dead son who was run over nearby.
It hurts me to hear that my friend was threatened with a gun in the school that she teaches in because she is "too strict and you'd better watch your back coz I'm going to shoot you." Yes there is always the danger of highlighting crime to the extent that it overwhelming all the good that goes on. There is no denying that there are an awful lot of good things going on, but there is also an awful lot of bad too. Just look at the latest measures by the government to make room in the oversubscribed prisons.

I was told by my much travelled uncle that the only 2 places in the world he has been told not to go out after dark are Stockholm and Auckland, I found this surprising, but at the end of the day they are cities, but he also went out in Paris and has been mugged on many occasions there, and he is not flash by any means, he is an ex-priest who was visiting some of his old colleagues at Mont Martre!!
I got to go now, I late for work - not had time to read through so probably littered with errors. :laugh:laugh

Steve

[Kim39]

But, I have just heard on the radio that the home office is now offering "foreign" prisoners incentives of up to £2500 for them to go home to free up places in UK prisons!! You just can't write it can you..... :roll

I am sat here just :no my head Steve, thanks for that info. Just logged onto SKY news for the confirmation, and i am speechless. Where was our payout for leaving the UK, so helping keep the population down, and also making sure none of my family added to the prison population.

Kim

[diforsyth]

I know, I know, I know, we've just been exceptionally unlucky, thats what everybody says. But I also think that these things should be advertised for potential immigrants.

Crikey!! It would only be fair if all countries had be completely honest and explicit about crime rates and dangers to foreigners - although this would most likely lead to collapse of the travel industry.

There are occasions when people happen to in the wrong place at the time (e.g. the girl mown down in Auckland when giving first aid to a stranger, bomb victims etc.). Unfortunately, it's called life and we just have to get on with it, hard as that may seem.

[annette]

I just read this thread and wanted to give my input as I live in south africa and are heading for NZ next year (paperwork in process)
Our reason for leaving: CRIME

I am sure everyone heard the horror stories from SA and I am not going to repeat them, when you have a minute, visit this site: southafricaiscrap.blogspot.com. This will help you realise that yes crime is everywhere, but you sure are lucky to not live here!

[Debbie P.]

I just read this thread and wanted to give my input as I live in south africa and are heading for NZ next year (paperwork in process)
Our reason for leaving: CRIME

I am sure everyone heard the horror stories from SA and I am not going to repeat them, when you have a minute, visit this site: southafricaiscrap.blogspot.com. This will help you realise that yes crime is everywhere, but you sure are lucky to not live here!

Annette, I'm very interested in this because I wrote another thread about our plans to do a self-drive and train trip between Johannesburg, Durban and Cape Town - would you say that was a foolhardy thing to do? I'm getting a bit worried...

[annette]

Debbie,

Let me put it this way(and believe me I love my country and I hate the fact that I have to leave) We live in a secured complex(fenced in with 24 hour security) in one of the most sought after neighbourhoods in JHB, our cars have anti smash on the windows(very comon for windows to be smashed, held up with fire arms, and if you are unlucky, you will be shot/killed for your empty wallet and cell) we do not drive at night(dangerous) we avoid high crime areas(which is everywhere!)and fear going to a mall as mall robberies are VERY comon. We do not just hear about crime, it happens to all of us.

Everyone knows someone or had the experience of being robbed, high jacked, held up, raped or killed.

Cash in transit robberies happens about 5 times a day, our murder rate per month is higher than in countries were there is WAR! Our rape rate is the highest in the world, so is our AIDS rate!

So let me put it in the nicest way possible: Yes it is a bad idea!
Self drive: Our accident rate is another thing that is very high due to overloaded taxi's(mini busses that carries on a good day about 20 people) unroadworthy cars and drivers that bought(yes!) their licenses.

Train: The average person do not just avoid public transport ie trains and busses, we do not come near them as they are sort of the centre of crime hotspots. We don't even drive by a train station that is how intimidating it is!

Traveling via train is one of the most dangerous things you can do! You will get robbed(if you are lucky) or (popular) Tossed out the train while it's moving

[Debbie P.]

OK, thanks for the comments, Annette. I shall definitely reconsider.

[willsken]

I certainly don't agree that this is a place where my children will be safer (this country has one of the highest rates of child abuse in OECD Countries)


These figures mainly come from children being abused by their family. Not nice but also not "stranger danger"



They will have a great childhood because that is what we will provide for them and we hope to keep them as safe as possible and teach them good morals - wherever we live.
Louise

You can but try - I work in a comprehensive school and believe me the kids I work with have very few morals. Not surprising when you can't walk into even a local shop without having soft core porn shoved in your face. Hey, and don't get me started with what’s shown on TV. The way this country shoves loose moral into our faces all the time, our kids don't stand a chance. :no

[Diny]

Not surprising when you can't walk into even a local shop without having soft core porn shoved in your face. Hey, and don't get me started with what’s shown on TV. The way this country shoves loose moral into our faces all the time, our kids don't stand a chance. :no


This is turning into a very interesting thread. Going back to the talk show I was listening to on the radio yesterday morning, one of the subjects people were up in arms about were the magazines and publications that were openly available and 'in your face'. Ranging from the teen mags which they classed as 'corporate paedophillia' - i.e very young girls being portrayed as sex objects, provocative poses, come hither eyes and hardly wearing a stitch. It was also suggested that 'youngsgters' have no respect or morals because they are having adulthood and all the associated 'nasties' thrust upon them from such an early age. People were calling in and sharing their experiences and opinions on the moral decline of the country.

I'm just sharing what was discussed on the radio compared to what is being discussed here. Having experience (re this discussion) from both sides (NZ & UK) I can honestly report that there's very little difference between the 2 places.

I agree with Louise, the location in which we raise our children will have a much less effect on them compared to how WE ourselves raise them. I can see absolutely no evidence at all that kids, youths and young adults are any 'better' here than elsewhere in the world. I'm simply speaking from my own experience and I'm sure this won't be the case for everybody.

Diny

[willsken]

I appreciate it is present in NZ but I really noticed the difference when we went into shops over there. The supermarkets and local shops I went into didn’t have the magazines I am referring to. I know what I saw there was limited but believe me I was looking for it. It is one of my biggest bug bears with the UK. The only place I saw these magazines was in a petrol station and even then they were around a corner, not as you walk in the door. Also when there was the girls going topless through Auckland the pictures shown in the Herald was of the girls backs….. could you imagine the press in this country doing that? (Maybe that was just the Internet part and the papers themselves carried different pictures?) I know it’s in NZ and I have no problem with that but it just didn’t seem so inescapable as it is in the UK.

[spudulike]

These figures mainly come from children being abused by their family. Not nice but also not "stranger danger"



You can but try - I work in a comprehensive school and believe me the kids I work with have very few morals. Not surprising when you can't walk into even a local shop without having soft core porn shoved in your face. Hey, and don't get me started with what’s shown on TV. The way this country shoves loose moral into our faces all the time, our kids don't stand a chance. :no

I also worked in a school before coming here and believe it is possible to teach children right from wrong IF the parents are also doing so at home. I know my children will have good manners and goood morals as that is how I will raise them - no questions.

As for porn - at least it's kept on the top shelf in the UK, it's on the bottom shelf or at eye level here. There also seems to be a distinct lack of censorship on the radio/tv - the other day I turned the radio off at 8am as the presenters were discussing premature ejaculation and group sex, and viagra is advertised on TV at all times of the day - and don't get me started on the bad language. Overall probably not greatly worse than the UK but certainly no better.

I agree the stats show the figures show child abuse in the home but do you believe that all these people don't have access to other children? Only the other week a piano teacher was convicted of abusing girls whilst giving them piano lessons at school - this conviction happened because one of the young girls had been brave enough to step forward despite his threats. Many more children in these circumstances don't - and I don't believe for one minute that ALL these people manage to restrain themselves when with other peoples children.

As I have said before NZ is a wonderful place but it also has the same 'morals' and crime that there is in the UK.

Louise

[Diny]

Also when there was the girls going topless through Auckland the pictures shown in the Herald was of the girls backs….. could you imagine the press in this country doing that? (Maybe that was just the Internet part and the papers themselves carried different pictures?) .


That was amazing ... all the girls on the motorbikes. Yeah - it was shown in all it's glory over here, no holds barred.

I totally appreciate everything you are saying and realise that everybody has different experiences and different opinions. Since living here in NZ I have found that everything in life - both good or bad - that exisits elsewhere is alive and kicking here too. Some to a lesser extent - some greater. I guess if a place is inhabited by the human race then it will have all the associated traits of elsewhere on the planet.

Diny

[Diny]

Have found the link to the radio station I was listening to. Radio Live ..... if any of you can tune in and listen on-line I'm sure you'll find it interesting.

http://www.radiolive.co.nz/

Diny

[spudulike]

I totally appreciate everything you are saying and realise that everybody has different experiences and different opinions. Since living here in NZ I have found that everything in life - both good or bad - that exisits elsewhere is alive and kicking here too. Some to a lesser extent - some greater. I guess if a place is inhabited by the human race then it will have all the associated traits of elsewhere on the planet.



I couldn't agree more :yes

Louise

[willsken]

As for porn - at least it's kept on the top shelf in the UK, it's on the bottom shelf or at eye level here.



Wow, I think I maybe in for a shock then. :no It really was something I was looking for and didn't see anything nearly as bad as you get in the UK. How disappointed am I? :wah

[spudulike]

Hi Nicola, I must admit I was so upset to see it as it was not something I had noticed when visiting before. I only notice it now because both my children are in a buggy and it is at their eye level :wah

Louise

[Moorf]

I honestly, truthfully, absolutely no rose tinted specs in sight, can not relate the the crime ridden NZ that I'm reading about here - that's not to say it doesn't exist but thank god I'm where I am as I don't see anything NEAR as much crime/vandalism/abuse as is being illustrated - yes, I read the papers but I'm in no way as horrified by the crimes here as I was in our local papers in the UK. :no

And yes, we came from a rural part of Scotland so are used to a low crime level.

I can only think that perhaps you could try other areas of NZ before tainting the entire country with a crime-ridden brush. :nice1

[sidabrine]

What is the connection between porn magazines and crime? :)

[K&CS]

Sidabrine, I don't think anyone was actually making a connection - as with any discussion, things can sometimes veer off on a bit of a tangent - I think it was to do with loose morals, which I suppose can be related to crime.

I agree with Moorf - both here and in the UK, I deliberately avoided living in places where I would encounter a lot of crime. To suggest that NZ is a crime ridden nightmare of a country is simply not true, although horrendous things can happen here as is the case just about anywhere in the world.

[Diny]

To suggest that NZ is a crime ridden nightmare of a country is simply not true, although horrendous things can happen here as is the case just about anywhere in the world.

You're right - it would be silly to suggest such a thing - I'm not sure anybody actually did. I think the general 'gist' of this thread is to highlight the fact that some people are very suprised by the level of crime in NZ, I was certainly suprised when I actually came to live here. Holidaying here and reading the glossy mags is totally different to real life. I agree with your last comment regarding horrendous things happening here as well as everywhere else in the world.

I also think that where we live (in both UK and NZ) will go a long way in determining our opinions on this one.

A very interesting thread, have thoroughly enjoyed reading and participating.

Diny

[Lloydcaneta]

Hello everybody!
I together with my wife and my son is considering to move to NZ because I want to live in a place where there is less stress and more places to unwind and do outdoor adventures. Moreover, we also want to experience a climate different to our which is tropical. My wife became excited when I told her that one of my plans on my career is to work in NZ. We also read on books and magazines all about the life in NZ, though in magazines and other tourist guide materials, all where about the positive side of NZ (of course, as they are selling their country to prospective immigrants). We also browsed on some educational institutions in NZ and somehow I found it quite interesting. We also got to know the cost of living in NZ and its so amazing how high it is. I'm just wondering how can I get a good paying job there which we can survive knowing all the expenses I have to hurdle on a monthly basis. However, I came across this thread here discussing the real status of NZ in terms of crime. I was shocked in the first place because all the while I know that NZ is a safe haven for immigrants like me. But still, i dont want to be discourage by this development. I want to be broadminded person knowing that anywhere in the world, you'll find horrible crimes on the street and anywhere else. I still want to pursue my application eventhough I came to know that I still need to research all about the life in NZ..
Anybody who can help me decide on this thing?.

[wilson182]

We've lived in Addington, chch and here in Rangiora and havent had any experiences with crime at all really, but I never really had that many in the UK either (apart from having my car stolen 4 times) I never bought into the "crime free NZ" anyway, and probably take as many precautions here as I did in the Uk. I cringe when I see that people think they will have no issues with crime here and stop acting sensibly. Although I do agree with sidabrine that there are SOME things you cant prepare for.......

[Smiler]

Quote "Anybody who can help me decide on this thing?"

Lloydcaneta - Welcome to the forum. :cheers:cheers

The short answer is no.

No one but you and your family can make that decision. You have read here of people's differing opinions, perceptions of crime etc. Someone coming from South Africa may think NZ is crime free in comparision, someone coming from Outer Mongolia will think it is crime ridden.

It really is something you can only decide having done your research, comparing what you have now, what you want for your life and whether you will achieve what you want here in NZ.

If you have the funds maybe it would be best to come on holiday, look around, test the job market etc, so that you can see it for yourself.

Good luck with your plans. :nice1

[Caroline and Dave]

thought I'd move this over here as it fits in very nicely showing there are 21 worst countries for crime than nz

www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

[jubjub]

thought I'd move this over here as it fits in very nicely showing there are 21 worst countries for crime than nz

www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes)

Ta, forgot to do it myself! (even though smiler told me to!:p )

[Richnat]

Looks good but that's totals per country. Look on the next tab for crimes per capita. New Zealand is Nr 2 behind Dominica. Now THAT hurts :(

New link:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita

[able]

nationmaster stats on crime are completely loopy.

according to them, the worst places in the world for crime include New Zealand, Denmark and Finland.

To get low crime you need to go to places like South Africa, Colombia and Jamaica.

I think not.

[Richnat]

I would tend to agree but their stats include ALL crimes, ranging from car theft to murder and the definition of the stats was given as:

"statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence."

With that in mind the statistics really say that New Zealand has better law enforcement than Colombia which makes a lot more sense.

Phew, dodged a bullet there :)

[willsken]

If you click on the country you get a complete breakdown.

I compared the positions of GB and NZ.

Assaults UK 31/57.................................... NZ 19/57
Car theft 2/55.............................................. 22/55
Drugs 12/34.............................................. 3/24
Murders 18/62............................................... 55/62
per capita 46/62............................................... 52/62
rape 7/65................................................ .... 30/65

Definite drugs problem in NZ! :no

[Caroline and Dave]

It would be interesting to know as NZ has a very high immigration statistic, how many crimes are committed by foreigners? Just a thought


Dave and Caroline

[StevieD]

But seriously, I know there is crime in the UK but it isn't as bad as the stories I read on these forums!

Having just read this properly and noticed this quote in amongst the text, I can honestly tell you that it is NOT concocted in any way. Yes, it is really as bad as this, people are experiencing it every single day of their lives. Only this evening 3 people are in hospital after confronting burglars in their own home, who knifed them, one aged 67! The burglars didn't get off lightly either and the 22 and 18 year old scrotes got a bit beaten up too. But no doubt, they will claim criminal injuries too for assault. Another couple of shootings, hell, only last week, 2 youths on mini motorbikes mowed down a POLICEMAN no less, not too far from my F-I-L's house.
So Louise, I think it is a tad cheeky to cast aspersions on people's remarks on crime in UK, because for your information, it really is that bad.

[sidabrine]

This turned out to be an extremely interesting thread... :)

Yesterday i got an email from a friend that I haven't been in touch with since I left for NZ:
"So, what has New Zealand got to offer you guys so far? Beautiful green countryside, low crime rate and "no worries" attitude to life? With far more relaxed lifestyle than people in many other countries, what else can you ask for more, right? And I know it is a great place to raise children as it is safer, cleaner and less crowded than many other parts of the world.. :)"

This kind of sums it all up. This is what I thought before coming here. I'm not claiming at all that NZ is worse than UK or SA. But it certainly isn't all that clean, green and "no worries" safe place to bring up your children. This is how it is marketed and this is the only thing you hear about NZ before coming here... :) But no, its not only about cute lambs and green pastures (and Frodo dancing with the hobbits :) )

Lloydcaneta, you don't have to base your decision on this thread (as well as you should not base it on glossy government brochures only). Just as everyone says, Auckland is a large city and obviously crime is more frequent here. And it feels that it is more frequent than in some large cities (such as Helsinki, Stocholm, Berlin) in Europe. But as many helpful people suggest in this thread, you may find more idylic lifestyle in the rural areas.

It may be a good idea, as someone already suggested, to come down and have a look at the place before finally deciding on moving here (and try to secure a job before packing up your family!!!). Settling down here can empty even very deep pockets!!!

[Carol]

This turned out to be an extremely interesting thread... :)

Yesterday i got an email from a friend that I haven't been in touch with since I left for NZ:
"So, what has New Zealand got to offer you guys so far? Beautiful green countryside, low crime rate and "no worries" attitude to life? With far more relaxed lifestyle than people in many other countries, what else can you ask for more, right? And I know it is a great place to raise children as it is safer, cleaner and less crowded than many other parts of the world.. :)"

This kind of sums it all up. This is what I thought before coming here. I'm not claiming at all that NZ is worse than UK or SA. But it certainly isn't all that clean, green and "no worries" safe place to bring up your children. This is how it is marketed and this is the only thing you hear about NZ before coming here... :) But no, its not only about cute lambs and green pastures (and Frodo dancing with the hobbits :) )

Lloydcaneta, you don't have to base your decision on this thread (as well as you should not base it on glossy government brochures only). Just as everyone says, Auckland is a large city and obviously crime is more frequent here. And it feels that it is more frequent than in some large cities (such as Helsinki, Stocholm, Berlin) in Europe. But as many helpful people suggest in this thread, you may find more idylic lifestyle in the rural areas.

It may be a good idea, as someone already suggested, to come down and have a look at the place before finally deciding on moving here (and try to secure a job before packing up your family!!!). Settling down here can empty even very deep pockets!!!


I honestly cant imagine that anyone would up and move to the other side of the world without having researched it as much as humanly possible.
It is SO much easier to do that these days with information readily available on the internet and on forums such as this.

Even ten years ago - when we came - that option was not available to us.
ANd yes - we probably came blinded with perceptions.

However - a trip over for us was out of the question financially (this was in the days before house prices had risen to the giddy heights they are now - what we arrived with was minimal compared to what some people bring over these days). We had done as much research as we could - but basically we just wanted out.

I have seen nothing in the two visits I have had back to the UK in the last 10 years to convinve me that this was the wrong decision.

Nice places where we used to live - have become foul dirty crime ridden/drug infested areas - and I am SO glad to be away from that.
I am not of course saying the whole of the UK is like that - of course it isn't.
And of course there are places here I wouldn't venture into after dark.


But not many!


C

[spudulike]

So Louise, I think it is a tad cheeky to cast aspersions on people's remarks on crime in UK, because for your information, it really is that bad.

Hi Steve, sorry you've been offended but if you read my further posts I did clarify my comments and say that many people can make generalisations that the whole of the UK is like that - and it's not at all! Just the same way that many people generalise about NZ, both good or bad. I think it is unfair to simply pick on one sentence and call me cheeky - particularly as I apologised if people had taken it personally or felt I was aying they were lying.

It does sound as though you live in a particularly bad area in the UK and I sympathise with you and understand why you would like to leave but I am also from the UK and as such feel qualified enough to say it isn't like that everywhere!

Hope you enjoy NZ

Louise

[Moorf]

Yup, it's the generalisations that don't "fit" with people - I bet if I lived in a dodgy area of Auckland my view on NZ would be very different to the one I hold here in rural Canterbury.

But, and I can only speak for Chch and surrounding towns, there just isn't the "bad estates" that there were in the UK with the sort of trouble and crime that went with them. There are poorer socio-demographic areas, and yes the areas with high Maori / Islander populations do tend to be the less salubrious areas, but not the densly populated, run down, towers of flats with burnt out cars and dealers on the corners that there are in the UK... I can't speak for Auckland or Wellington.

Here the sort of crime I see going on around Chch and the rural areas is the sort of "scumbag" crime that you'll find the world over, where usually the perpetrator is a known toe-rag or a surge of burglaries where someone's targetting an area or car related crimes (don't get me started on hoons). ;)

Then there's usually a weekly "big" crime/story from one of the main NZ cities. One thing that HAS surprised me here is the seemingly high number of child abuse scenarios... v.surprising.

As has been said before, lock your doors, keep valuables out of sight, etc etc etc

[markynz]

Although I feel for you being a crime victim sid, Im sorry but if you decided to emigrate to NZ without even coming here on a visit beforehand then I'm amazed. I can't believe that anyone would do that unless forced to do so in this day and age with flights being relatively cheap and common.
We travelled NZ last year to visit and see whether we like it or not. Also to visit a prosepective franchisor. Having visited almost every place, the only place we liked was Nelson.
The places we thought about before we went, Tauranga and Napier, although nice, had issues we were'nt happy about. The problem with 'P' in these areas is quite marked apparently, as well as gang culture. It just put us off.
The south island ( or the mainland as we like to call it :nice1 ) is just so much more of what we were after. Amazing landscapes, people that like living here ( really ! ), The best weather around ( in Nelson ), friendly locals ( thats true too ) and less traffic. Basically it was ideal for us, and I have met quite a few brits here that think so too, they can do the lifestyle things ( beaches, cafes, kayaking, riding, tramping, boating etc etc ) that they really want. I find it amusing how many of the locals call it ' paradise '.
Ok its got some of its own issues. Theres a few boy racers about and theres the odd fight on a saturday night in town amongst other things, but for gods sake, anyone who thinks that NZ is the land of milk and honey is not thinking right.
Anywhere there are people, you will find problems and crime.

[Moorf]

Nice post Marky - I can only think that that's what it must be - a North / South Island split - I haven't yet been north of the Strait but I'm in no rush! Even the pics of Auckland on the news don't look like NZ to us.

It's definitely a lifestyle choice - I know many who live in Welly and Auckland and LOVE it - and they would hate living somewhere like Chch or Dunedin!

[markynz]

Too right Moorf, we're better off down here in the REAL NZ ! :cheers

Just on another point, I also found it highly ironic that on our very last day in the UK we witnessed a drunk thug beating his girlfriend up in the street just down the road as the packing men from John Masons were doing our house.
Shocked at this I went to challenge him, you know, what the hell are you doing, leave her alone, and he basically left her in a heap and his mate suddenly appeared from behind a tree and headed for me shouting the usual chav obscenities. Anyway, I beat hasty retreat and called the police.

They went away dragging this girl down the road and the police came and found them. Apparently they were all well known and the policeman said I wouldnt have felt so sorry for the girl had I known that she had been arrested the week before for slashing another girl across the face in our small town with a stanley knife.

Anyway, the girl did'nt press any charges as she was obviously liking getting beaten up every day by her thug of a boyfriend, so the police could do nothing.

I got talking to the policeman who asked where we were going. He said that the force in the UK was totally demoralised with how the courts were ' letting them down'. He then said that he had tried to get into NZ himself as an officer, but the 3 jobs available had had 3500 british applicants !!

I think that just sums it all up eh ?

[Moorf]

Is "how great it is living on the Mainland" a popular topic with locals in Nelson too? Don't even get them started here or you'll be there all day! Even mention the North Island here and they'll start bombarding you with "we went to x, y, z and it was FULL of Maori".. they're obsessed!

Having returned home in the UK from a holiday abroad we discovered our flat had been cleaned out, all except furniture. Since then NOWHERE has felt totally safe to me/us. Every time I return home, wherever that is, after an extended time away I feel totally sick until I've checked inside. Wherever in the world you're affected by crime it'll leave a sour taste... I've never been the same since. :no

[markynz]

Sorry to hear that Moorf.
My sister was burgled twice in 3 months a year ago, she's now planning to join us in NZ as soon as she can.

How great it is down here in the mainland eh ! :D

LOL - yes, they're always on about it. What they like here is how the weather is. When it was snowing down south and windy as hell on the north island blowing rooves off etc., what was it doing here in Nelson ?

Well, the sun was out of course !

Nelsonians constantly like to smirk about that one :laugh

By the way - ignore the weather forecasts about Nelson, they're always wrong. I don't think the forecasters quite realise that the mountains surrounding us often cut out much of the cloud and bad weather. ;)

[spudulike]

It's definitely a lifestyle choice - I know many who live in Welly and Auckland and LOVE it - and they would hate living somewhere like Chch or Dunedin! [/color]

We're in Welly and we don't feel it's that great although I know many that love it. We've travelled all over NZ and love the South Island so will give it a try after Xmas if poss. Hubby been offered a job in Dunedin but we're on the lookout for ChCh. Can't say the prospect of looking for rentals fills me with joy - especially with two children in tow..... :roll

We're hoping living there will remind us why we decided to come to NZ as sometimes when it gets tough it can be a bit difficult to remember! Nice to know there doesn't seem to be a huge problem with crime down there though. :clap

Louise

[Trigirl]

This is much less "personal" as its just money rather than property and there's no feeling of someone being in your home - but yesterday I found someone has been using my credit card to the tune of £1000.

Obviously we'll get that money back from the bank but its still not very nice.

Sorry - no comment on crime levels in NZ or UK intended from that. I just felt the need to tell someone.

[incredible hulse]

I got talking to the policeman who asked where we were going. He said that the force in the UK was totally demoralised with how the courts were ' letting them down'. He then said that he had tried to get into NZ himself as an officer, but the 3 jobs available had had 3500 british applicants !!

I think that just sums it all up eh ?

Maybe they were sold a dummy on the cost of living like the prison officers I'm led to believe were :p

I must say I'm surprised slightly on the crime rates here. We live in Paraparaumu, which at the end of the day is a pretty small town (7500 or so people) in what I would class as a well-off area. Reading the local papers always surprises me the amount of Chav activity that goes on most weekends, drug offences, burglaries, and also what seems a high number reports of sexual assaults - would say that it matches or even exceeds what I came across when living in similar type places in Surrey and Hampshire. That said I feel safer on a night out in Welly than I did sometimes in Leeds, but that may not be the case in South Auckland. I would say overall from what I have seen of NZ things are pretty comparable on crime but maybe not as widespread due to the lack of numbers rather than lack of percentages

[jubjub]

Having returned home in the UK from a holiday abroad we discovered our flat had been cleaned out, all except furniture. Since then NOWHERE has felt totally safe to me/us. Every time I return home, wherever that is, after an extended time away I feel totally sick until I've checked inside. Wherever in the world you're affected by crime it'll leave a sour taste... I've never been the same since. :no

Moorf thats a horrible experience you had, we have never been burgled (touches wood hastily!) but we do a similar thing, we get within a mile or two of home and start to worry that its in one peice, we have always done it ever since our neighbours got done over a few years ago, we even did it with our last house too, and thats was alarmed and monitored!

Anyhow, you lot on the "resource" island need to come see us lot up here, its quite nice really.... ;).

It is all a case of perspective though, I was talking to someone the other day who knew south africans that were returning to SA cos they were worried about the crime rate here!

[Moorf]

By the way - ignore the weather forecasts about Nelson, they're always wrong. I don't think the forecasters quite realise that the mountains surrounding us often cut out much of the cloud and bad weather. ;)



Same... Woz travels into Chch each day to work, he leaves me in blue skies and sun and gets to Chch where it can be overcast and freezing :D


but yesterday I found someone has been using my credit card to the tune of £1000.



It's just as bad as being burgled in a way - it's your personal property and you've been hoodwinked / taken advantage of and it's horrid.

[Billy]

I was checking some stats recently, given publicity about the sharp rise in the murder rate in NZ. I did some comparisons and found it was about the same as Glasgow. And Glasgow is a great city to live and work in, with the usual areas where things are a bit rougher.

Its all relative I suppose.

Cheers
Billy