[Debs]

Hi there,
I wonder if the people who are already in New Zealand,or close to going could let me know -
We have two small children. And are in the UK

Just wondering.........
What would people say are the main benefits for their children in New Zealand?
In what way is life better than in the UK ?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts

[Cardy]

HI there
our kids have a wider social circle here than the uk and we dont worry as much about letting them out. theres lots of parties the kiwis love tthere parties and barbies. Schoolwise there were no problems they settled in straight away the other kids were all really friendly at middle school and high school, the first week the girls went to school they wwere taken on a 3 day adventure holiday and did canoeing ,bmx .caving etc and loved it they had never had that chance in the uk. The girls have one of the little quadrangle type gardens where they eat there lunch at school totally different to uk.They all play sports in local teams ,football cricket etc. We asked them if they would like to go back to the uk and they said ONLY FOR A HOLIDAY IN A YEAR OR TWO!!
Cardy

[veronica]

Kids are a resiliant sort of life form and providing that they are loved and cared for should thrive wherever.

Where do you think that you will be happiest.

[Diny]

Hi Debs .. good question.

Guess it's going to be one of those 'no right no wrong' discussions.

Life for kids over here is pretty good, but whether it's better than life in the UK all depends on what your life in the UK is/was like.

My boys have settled into school, they have a good social life and a vast circle of mates - but this was also the case in the UK.

Neither of them are very keen on sport - this was also the case in the UK.

The big difference here is that they now walk to school by themselves. We actually live in a busier place here in NZ than we did back home it's just that at their old school in the UK it was policy that the kids did not walk to/from school without an adult.

Coming from a very quiet location back home, we've found that our kids have taken massive steps in growing up since getting here, not always good steps either. Their knowledge of 'undesireable' subjects, their vocabulary and their attitudes blow me away at times. Yeah I guess this would have happened wherever we live, but it does feel like they're knowing too much too soon since getting here.

Personally I don't think kids are going to evolve into wonderful young adults just because they live in NZ. From what I've seen kids/teenagers over here are no different to back in the UK.

I can only speak from personal experience but given the choice of having my kids the way they were in the UK or having my kids the way they are here in NZ ....... I'd turn the clocks back.

Diny

[Hannah]

SCHOOL, SCHOOL AND SCHOOL!!!

However, i do agree with whats been said already - that kids will thrive wherever if they are loved and cared for. I also think that the decision which is best for the parents will be the decision that is best for the children - if you are not happy in NZ then your children may well be unsettled to.

PErsonally, having lived in both countries, NZ wins hands down - but the things i like (e.g. schools and less academic pressure) are the things that other parents feel they are compromising on (nice place, shame about the lack of academic pressure in schools). Some people will feel that their children have more freedom in NZ, however I feel my children have a fair amount here in the UK already and that giving freedom to children is at much a state of mind for parents as it is tangible reality. If you are not happy letting your children out alone, I'm not sure it will be easier to do so in NZ necessarily.

I really do believe that if i were to stay here in the UK then life for my children would be as good as in NZ - we are fortunate to live in affluent countries, free from civil wars etc. and with love and nurture our children will be fine.

NZ is the choice for ME (selfish as that sounds) and, after some decision making, the right choice for my other half. For that reason it's the right thing for our children.

Roll on 18th January!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sizzlingbadger]

The freedom, the social circle and the life experience they're getting from moving countries (ok they're 5,4,2 at the moment but the younger two talk a lot about the plane trip over and their old houses).

I was one of the mum's that never let the kids have any freedom back in the UK, even in the back yard that was secure I was constantly watching them. It's taken me a while but finally I've let go and they have free range of the 1/2 acre garden they've got here without me breathing down their necks every few minutes :D That could only be a good thing for them.

[Diny]

but the things i like (e.g. schools and less academic pressure) are the things that other parents feel they are compromising on (nice place, shame about the lack of academic pressure in schools).


I really do believe that if i were to stay here in the UK then life for my children would be as good as in NZ - we are fortunate to live in affluent countries, free from civil wars etc. and with love and nurture our children will be fine.



Excellent post - totally agree. You and I are on opposite ends of the scale when it comes to our opinions on the education over here - but I totally back everything you say in your post.

Diny

[Carol]

Hmmm....

I have to say - we definitely got our kids' lives back when we arrived.

OK - it was 10 years ago - but it was SO obvious from the moment we set foot in NZ that they had turned back into little kids again - it was just wonderful.
The freedom they have now compared to what they had then is amazing.

School has been excellent for all of them. I found the National Curriculum far too rigid for my liking and hated SATS and the foul league tables with every bone in my body.

Sporting opportunities have far surpassed what they would have got (or should I say what we would have been able to afford) in the UK.
They are all members of a golf club - my oldest (now 17) plays for their 1st team. The membership fee is so low it is laughable.

Their eating habits changed radically when we got here too....much less processed stuff. And they actually stopped drinking juice (mainly because they didnt like the powdered drink stuff) and started costing me a small fortune in milk! (We currently gert through approx 20-22 litres a week!!)

The BIG loss....... family - for us.
Not having ANYONE near us who we can call "family" is very very hard - especially for me who spent half my time at my grandparents. It is a huge void in their lives.......:(

Ten years on? It was a good move for my kids....
No doubt.

[firstkings]

We've only been here in Christchurch for 6 weeks and ours are now 10,7,5,2.

School is so different - they are told to play on the equipment before school starts - tire out the boys - so different to their school in the UK, where they were not allowed to play on the school equipment unless supervised. Our eldest two are alowed to take number 3 to the local park by themselves. No worries - quiet ish roads etc. We lived in a fairly grotty part of a nice city in UK - only the oldest two went out then - "stay together". On bikes...."don't go here, don't go there" etc...Only in good weather, on certain days, if the local yobs weren't around etc. I really don't worry as much now.

School isn't too laid back so far - infact quite hard in for our 10 year old, as he had just started year 5 in Britain and now 6 weeks later he is just finishing year 5! He has jumped up a year almost! They have some great homework to do including doing chores around the house etc. Gets my vote!

Christchurch has loads of parks - almost all graffitti free, no dog pooh down the slides, not burned at the edges. The grass is cut regularly.

So much to do is free - the botanic gardens (sounds boring, but great fun - mazes, ponds, play area etc), bottle lake forest (massive area, virtually free BBQs, biking trails, massive play area), the sea/beach (loads of it - miles, shells galore), the tram and gondola (one off cost (£35) year ticket - number 4 loves it). Orana and Willowbank wildlife farms are again season ticket things - great for filling in time, just being together. The swimming pool QEII is great and cheap (something silly like £10 for all 6 of us with 3 wrist bands for the slides). There are other things I have missed. The kids love it here, it really is so nice for them. They miss their friends (number 1 gets homesick, but our container arrives this weekend....move into our new house!), but they all agree that they have a better time out here.

This is a great place to bring up young kids.

(I have no shares in NZ plc and I am still in the honeymoon stage....!)

Cheers

David

[SharpBlade]

After the initial reaction thinking that the kids would prefer their life here in NZ to their life in Ireland, I am now slowly starting to change my mind.
I agree, there is loads to do for them , there are opportunities out there they would probably never experience in the West of Ireland and like Diny said, they are becoming more streetwise (which is neither good nor bad). But, oh boy, do I miss the freedom we/they had in Ireland. I suppose it comes with living in a city, but I am very aware of our neighbours, of the fact that we have to try, somehow, to keep the noise down, and all that. We have just bought a house in a quiet cul de sac, and the kids can`t even do crazy stunt on their bikes or little tractors because of the noise/ the risks (they don`t always manage to brake at the end of the path..). The neighbours are nice, but I have always found kiwi kids very calm and "tamed". I rarely see kiwi kids speeding on their bike just for the sake of it, for the fun of it, nor do I see them chasing each other down the slide laughing their head off at the playground . I can always tell if my kids are at the playground, because of the noise. My kids could dig in the sand for two hours ,very happily, and that was their favorite past time in Ireland where they could explore fields and edges, but I feel kiwi kids are much more "civilised" or "sophisticated". I can`t generalise, but that`s what I have seen here , around Beckenham, Cashmere. Or maybe it is just me going through a negative phase because the neighbours kind of complained..
Anyway, going off topic now.
So yes, kids will see more and experience more, but they might miss on the basics of childhood (hopefully not. I don`t want mine to grow too quickly). And definitely,despite emails and all that, ours miss the big family life we would otherwise have had.
good luck, anyway,
laura

[MegnFam]

Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but do most of you find the schooling in NZ adequate compared to the UK? I'm currently in the US, and have very little confidence in our public schooling. Some locations are fantastic, but the upper grades (in our city) are lacking. Does anyone know how NZ education in general ranks on a world level? Is it better or worse than the UK? About the same? Don't know about the US, but I think our education system is slowly going downhill.

Megan

[Diny]

Megan

Have sent you a PM.

Diny

[Diny]

After the initial reaction thinking that the kids would prefer their life here in NZ to their life in Ireland, I am now slowly starting to change my mind.


oh boy, do I miss the freedom we/they had in Ireland. I suppose it comes with living in a city, but I am very aware of our neighbours,

I rarely see kiwi kids speeding on their bike just for the sake of it, for the fun of it, nor do I see them chasing each other down the slide laughing their head off at the playground .


So yes, kids will see more and experience more, but they might miss on the basics of childhood

laura

Just reading through this thread again as it's a subject I'm very passionate about (prob because the effect NZ has had on my kids isn't all together 'desireable') - Have to say a couple of Lauras comments hit home for me. Proof yet again (IMHO) that the life you had prior to moving to NZ makes a MASSIVE difference to how you will view your new life here.

Diny

[StevieD]

Yeah, interesting posts and thread.

I know where Diny is coming from, been discussed many times on the forums. And I have to say that I fully understand as I know her background. It is also interesting to read Laura's views having come from the west of Ireland, which I would imagine, is a similar sort of environment to NZ, very rural. I can only think that it is the polarization of views that comes from our own circumstances that will colour our views on whether it is "good or bad".

Unfortunately for us, kids grow up, and ours are certainly growing up too quickly. The pressure on children is enormous here in UK, from magazines, television to schools. The government is piling more pressure on, without actually doing anything to alleviate the problems.

I have to say that the "be a model at 8, credit card owner at 16" mentality sickens me. How the govt. allows credit card/consolidation loans to be aired on childrens tv the same. Did you hear that Tesco have just had to withdraw a "pole dancing kit for kids?" It included DVD and CD with the hook "unleash the sex kitten in you!!!!!"

I just hope that the fact that NZTV is so bad, coupled with a more agreeable outdoor life, which I feel has to be more accessible purely due to the lack of population in NZ, will allow us to have, as Carol puts it, "our kids back". I look forward to finding out soon.

Steve

[Carol]

Sorry, this may be a little off topic, but do most of you find the schooling in NZ adequate compared to the UK?
Megan


Everything is relative.
For me as a teacher - and seeing the "inside story" the NZ system offers a far more "rounded" education for our children that what was being delivered (by me as a teacher!) in the UK.

The new curriculum that is currently under review in NZ is even better - streamlined and brought up to date for the new century as far as Information Technology goes.

What I WOULD say though (IMHO) - is that if a school is weakly lead - with little if any vision, they will find it much more difficult to implement and include the new "Key Competencies" than a school with strong leadership and a sound strategic plan.

http://www.tki.org.nz/r/nzcurriculum/index_e.php
You can have a look at the new draft curriculum here....

C

[Debs]

Great comments by everyone - thanks

One more question I was wondering about - what are the classroom sizes like in primarys in NZ compared to UK ??


Cheers

[Diny]

Can only comment on my boys school.

Our eldest sons class - here 28 - UK 14

Youngest son - here 27 - UK 15

We had a look around other schools before deciding on this one, they all seemed to have class sizes around the 28ish mark.

Diny

[Debbie P.]

Can only comment on my boys school.

Our eldest sons class - here 28 - UK 14

Youngest son - here 27 - UK 15

We had a look around other schools before deciding on this one, they all seemed to have class sizes around the 28ish mark.

Diny

OMG, your kids were so lucky! My sister teaches a primary school class of 34 (in Bournemouth). Was supposed to be 27 but they keep adding more!

[Hannah]

Class size of 32 in Uk and about the same in the NZ primary school (mixed year group classes depending on ability - e.g my daughter was a 'year 3' in a 'year 3/year 4' class of 32 children and just one teacher, no classroom assistant). however, although a bit concerned initially about the 1:32 ratio due to lack of classroom assistant support i soon found out that it was not a problem as the behaviour in my daughter's NZ class was not as problematic as the UK class (maybe because children were given more freedom, let outside more, do their work laying down on the floor or sitting on beanbags etc.). In the UK the classroom assistant spent a lot of time supporting the children in controlling their behaviour.

I asked my daughter why she said she liked her school in NZ and her answer was 'because all the teachers are kind and like me and i feel really really happy when i am there'.

What more as a parent can I ask for !!!!!!

[Diny]

OMG, your kids were so lucky! My sister teaches a primary school class of 34 (in Bournemouth). Was supposed to be 27 but they keep adding more!


Exactly - my boys school back in the UK was excellent. There were 68 at the school, and that included teaching staff and the school secretary. I know this is not the norm, and I know how lucky they were to get such a high quality start to their education.

Maybe now people know the size of classes my boys used to attend, and the kind of school they used to attend, they will find it easier to understand why (in our case) the transition to NZ education hasn't been adorned with flags and bells and daisy chains.

Back in the UK they used to do work 'on the carpet', the classrooms were scattered with bean bags and each class had their own garden which extended from a patio, every possible chance to get outside and sit on the grass to do lessons was taken.

The 'method' of schooling (in as much as 'school life') the boys received in the UK wasn't really that far removed from what they have here, it's just that academically (which - call me old fashioned - but I consdier to be far more important than sitting on a bean bag or being allowed to sprawl across a floor and draw a picture) was more advanced than what they are experiencing here.

I know that the schooling the boys received in the UK is probably more the acception than the rule (and I realise that they were very lucky) - but the fact remains that my boys have (academically) ground to a halt here where as their 'school life' continues on much the same relaxed, casual theme as it did in the UK.

Hopefully this explains it abit more to those who find my opinions difficult to fathom.

I just want my boys to get their enthusiasm for learning back.

I'd like to add, it's not the school they attend that I'm 'attacking', neither is it the teaching staff, it's just that the 'laid back' approach to education over here is just abit too laid back. I'm sure it will suit the vast majority of kids and parents alike - sadly it hasn't had such a fantastic effect on my boys.

I'm sure they'll come through the other end just fine, and I'm hanging onto the promise that once kids enter senior shcool then all the stops are pulled out and the 'real work' begins, I can only comment on the boys primary education. I know I sound like a miserable old crow, and I also know that my boys UK school experience was probably the exception rather than the rule. Hope this goes a little way to explaining my 'gripes'.

Diny

[Carol]

I know I sound like a miserable old crow
Diny


gerraway with yer....

Now put the jug on and have a cup of tea!

:p

[Diny]

Don't drink tea .... is it too early for a gin ????

Diny

[Carol]

well... a bit!

:laugh

[StevieD]

Have an OJ then!! It is fascinating reading all these posts, and as I sleepily said this morning, a lot of our experiences in UK will colour our judgement on the NZ issue. As Diny has so rightly pointed out, both on the forum and in private conversation with us, her boys had a great education, in what were very good surroundings.

However, we do feel that UK is a bit too academic for junior school children, I can't see the point of saturating young children with stuff that will probably never be used again. I had a good education myself, going through the grammar school system, and I never had anywhere near the amount of homework, lessons, subjects etc. that my 2 are expected to learn at such a young age.

[Diny]

I can't see the point of saturating young children with stuff that will probably never be used again.


LOL !!!! You have a point there ...... for instance - has anybody ever used a slide rule since leaving school ?

Diny

[spudulike]

LOL !!!! You have a point there ...... for instance - has anybody ever used a slide rule since leaving school ?

Diny

What's a slide rule? Was that before my time??? :laugh :laugh

Louise

[StevieD]

Ey up don't be like that, what's a slide rule!! :laugh

But to answer your question Diny, NO!!

Have used log tables though - a lot (well, when in college before we got our fancy super duper calculators).

[Carol]

I've never seen the point in saturating kids with facts.

Now how to FIND those facts is a completely different thing.
And yes - testing them on how they manage to do that is appropriate.
Using a calculator may be appropriate in 2006 - much more so than in 1976.
Times change - and so must education.

If you can get their basics strong - and instill in them a love of learning - you have the basis of a sound and independent education.
That's why (I believe) the NZ system is so successful.
There are always going to be "bright cookies" and "strugglers" no matter where you live - no matter how many kids in your class.

Incidentally - looking at those class sizes I would say that one of THE most important goals for a school would be to keep their class sizes down as much as possible.
Even by 4 or 5 - those few less children make a huge difference to the overall management of a classroom.
So in a class of 15 for instance as Diny has said - the achievement level of the children should be significantly higher because they will be gettting double the one on one time that is SO valuable in teaching and learning.

That is probably the main attraction of private schools I guess - because they have the funds available to keep their class sizes so low.
It's not an option I would take - but for some I can see why it would appear so attractive.

We are in the process of moving my daughter to another school - not because we are looking for something better - just because I dont want to drive her to school 20 minutes away each day now that I have finished working there.
It's been an eye opener (again) to view schools which had a supposedly "fantastic" reputation.
Yes - on the surface - they were all tidy orderly quiet classrooms with "things put up neatly on the walls.

At the moment however - my personal favourite is one where the principal sent for a couple of Yr 7/8 students to show us around the school.
When the secretary asked her who she wanted she said "oh any of them"

You could have knocked me over with a feather when they arrived - not the most "well dressed" kids in the world - but amazingly astute.
Answered all of our questions fully - honestly and with pride.

And......they referred to the principal by her first name all the time!
Never heard that before!

Disrespectful? Apparantly not.
They were SO polite it was a pleasure to talk to them.
It wasnt the tidiness that caught my attention in THAT one. It was the engagement of the kids in their learning.

Think we'll be back there soon for another look around....
:D

I've said it before and I'll say it again - you HAVE to view the schools to get the "feel".
Going off recommendation I wouldnt have touched that one with a barge pole.

Carol

[Diny]

you HAVE to view the schools to get the "feel".

Carol


Couldn't agree more !!

Great post by the way.

Diny

[dawn]

One of the things that amazed me when my kids started school here was that everyone took their shoes off to go into the classroom, we walked into an IT class (intermediate year 7) and there they all were, feet tucked up underneath them, relaxed and thoroughly enjoying the lesson.

I for one am pleased that my children go to school in NZ and they seem to be thriving on the informality and the friendliness of the teachers and students alike.

My eldest is dyspraxic, so even though he was finishing year 8 in the UK, I decided to keep him that way when we got here, so he repeated 6 months. He's now had 6 months in a school where he didn't feel out of his depth and is more than ready to start high school in February.

I find that the school productions are of a much higher quality than the one's in the UK, they're original and imaginative, none of your Wizar dof Oz or Peter pan that everyone's seen a million times. And all the children get involved in one way or another, not just the kids that can act.

I like that everyone is equal here and they seem to really care about the kids wellbeing and future, I have to say I never got that feeling in the schools they attended in the UK.

Of course, all this is just my experiences and opinions, I'm sure there are great schools in the UK, unfortunately, my kids didn't attend them.

[Debbie P.]

I think that the staff in a lot of UK schools are getting quite depressed. My OH has been teaching for something like 17 years now and he's never been higher than deputy head of English. That's his decision because he hates paperwork and he went into teaching to TEACH. But in the last few years, he has had a really tough time of it, mainly with senior management, including department heads who are stressed out of their minds and choose to take it out on the teachers in their department. He feels very demoralised, and that must affect the quality of his teaching.

He really wants to get into a situation where there's mutual respect between teachers and children (he has always felt it's a 2-way process), and where he can give the necessary time required to help children who are struggling without having to worry all the time about standards and results etc. It makes me really sad because I've watched a man with a genuine vocation to teach become embittered and desperate to get out of teaching - in the UK, anyway.

Sorry, had to get that off my chest! I doubt teaching in NZ will be very different from the UK, but he might regain some of his enthusiasm for the job.

[Migueliones15]

I'm sure they'll come through the other end just fine, and I'm hanging onto the promise that once kids enter senior shcool then all the stops are pulled out and the 'real work' begins, I can only comment on the boys primary education. I know I sound like a miserable old crow, and I also know that my boys UK school experience was probably the exception rather than the rule. Hope this goes a little way to explaining my 'gripes'.Diny
Diny I'd just like to say I really appreciate your honesty about the "gripes" of schooling and don't think you're being a miserable crow at all. It means other teachers and future teachers (moi :p) know what we can do to improve education and still keep the informal and relaxed atmosphere :)

[willsken]

I know I sound like a miserable old crow, Diny

Yup!!! :p :laugh :laugh

No seriously Diny, I think if I was in your situation I would feel gutted as well. I see no improvement in Matt since he has started secondary school (well except he gets lazier by the day!!) and I feel very disappointed for him. He really hasn't taken to school at all, so in this way I hope NZ offer’s him something that suits him, as a child, a little better.

[andreamatt]

Really interesting thread. Great to hear all the differing views.

Do the Board of Trustees at NZ schools set class-size limits, like school governing bodies do here?

I sent my children off this morning with their costumes for their school Christmas play (the school is small enough - 93 children, a fairly typically-sized primary school in rural Devon - for everyone to have a part). Class sizes are small - Martha's in with 12 other reception / year 1s and William's in a class of 22 year 4s (but only 7 other boys). It's a lovely school with kind, thoughtful and fairly-well motivated teachers and fairly-well motivated children, and yet...

We are anticipating that our children will have so many more opportunities, at a school in the Wellington region, than the national curriculum sometimes allows here. And William's hoping that there will be many more boys for him to play with (boys who aren't so much into football).

I quite agree that you have to go into a school and engage with the head teacher and pupils and get the feel of the place - difficult to gauge much about NZ schools from their websites whilst here in rainy Devon. However I'm quietly confident that we're doing the right thing for our children and will find them, even if it takes months of looking, a welcoming school where they'll flourish.

Rose-tinted spec.s? Probably!

Andrea