upnorthkyosa
5th November 2006, 07:19 AM
When you moved from your home country to NZ, what was the hardest thing for you to get used to in NZ? Why?
Pages :
[1]
2
veronica
5th November 2006, 07:22 AM
Easter in the Autumn.
Diny
5th November 2006, 07:28 AM
Christmas in the middle of summer and the flimsy houses. Stick with something long enough though and it kind of becomes the norm.
Also - by far the hardest thing I've had to get use to is not living close to my family, but onwards and upwards - it all comes good in the end.
Diny
Also - by far the hardest thing I've had to get use to is not living close to my family, but onwards and upwards - it all comes good in the end.
Diny
Anita & Marco
5th November 2006, 07:32 AM
The very (too) laid back attitude - and the Kiwi's being so disorganised en inefficient. But I am getting there, although I do not think I will ever reach that level of the Kiwi.
Cheers,
Anita
Cheers,
Anita
Marie P
5th November 2006, 07:41 AM
I hate the fact that all the insects seem to enjoy my skin ,my husband never gets bitten ,I'm covered in bites. :wah
Marie x
Marie x
sarahw
5th November 2006, 07:57 AM
The fact that in a calendar year Autumn comes before Spring - it has done my head in & 2 years on I still can't get it! When people talk about planting in the spring I automatically think of March-May and not this time of year! Give me 20 years & it might have sunk in!!
Learning the Maori pronounciations of words and placenames - (I worked with Maori & had to sound credible straight away with pronounciations - it took weeks for me to be able to say Pauatahanui and Paekakariki in the proper Maori pronounciation!)
Learning the Maori pronounciations of words and placenames - (I worked with Maori & had to sound credible straight away with pronounciations - it took weeks for me to be able to say Pauatahanui and Paekakariki in the proper Maori pronounciation!)
jess
5th November 2006, 09:03 AM
at first it was driving on the left and always yielding to the right.
now it's the reversed seasons.
now it's the reversed seasons.
Moorf
5th November 2006, 09:38 AM
The give way to turning cars rule thingy... :mad:
Howie
5th November 2006, 09:55 AM
I'm going to say Kiwis. Still don't get them, but I think I'll slowly get there. I met a Canadian the other day and we immediately started chatting like we'd known each other for ever. That simply doesn't happen with Kiwis. I've decided the best word to describe most of the Kiwis I've met is aloof. Friendly, but aloof.
Oh, and I'd also have to go with the grocery stores - very different. But after almost 8 months (hard to believe) I'm getting used to things.
Oh, and I'd also have to go with the grocery stores - very different. But after almost 8 months (hard to believe) I'm getting used to things.
Diny
5th November 2006, 10:24 AM
I'm going to say Kiwis. Still don't get them, but I think I'll slowly get there. I met a Canadian the other day and we immediately started chatting like we'd known each other for ever. That simply doesn't happen with Kiwis. I've decided the best word to describe most of the Kiwis I've met is aloof. Friendly, but aloof.
.
Spot On !!!!!!!! Almost whooped with delight when I read what you'd written - couldn't agree more.
On the whole Kiwis are a lovely bunch yet it always seems that myself and Kiwis are on a completely different wavelength - I just don't get them ..... and hey - I'm married to one !!!
.
Spot On !!!!!!!! Almost whooped with delight when I read what you'd written - couldn't agree more.
On the whole Kiwis are a lovely bunch yet it always seems that myself and Kiwis are on a completely different wavelength - I just don't get them ..... and hey - I'm married to one !!!
jubjub
5th November 2006, 11:31 AM
I missed be able to go out to buy something, and actually know where to go for it. I blundered around warehouse/supermarket etc blindy for ages hunting for various things, I am pretty much on top of it now, but still get stumped looking for some items.
jess
5th November 2006, 11:38 AM
decided my post a minute ago was too far off topic for the thread. so nevermind. :o
Singel
5th November 2006, 07:29 PM
Having our birthdays in Winter time :wah
K&CS
5th November 2006, 08:25 PM
Well, after tonight, I'd say it's having bonfire night in the spring and having to wait till 9.30pm for the fireworks displays. Just doesn't seem right - also with the warm strong winds, I'm sure it must be a bit of a fire risk! And like Singel above, now having a winter birthday seems very strange!!
MB
6th November 2006, 01:27 PM
*snip*.
Sorry to anyone who was poised to respond to my post for the five minutes it was up: I have deleted it because I think it fell into the trap of being not well-thought-through enough, at least for now. Might post again later.
Sorry to anyone who was poised to respond to my post for the five minutes it was up: I have deleted it because I think it fell into the trap of being not well-thought-through enough, at least for now. Might post again later.
lollypop
6th November 2006, 01:42 PM
Well, after tonight, I'd say it's having bonfire night in the spring and having to wait till 9.30pm for the fireworks displays. Just doesn't seem right
This one got me too - and watching my daughter holding a sparkler, barefoot and in summer clothes rather than togged up in gloves, hats, boots etc.
This one got me too - and watching my daughter holding a sparkler, barefoot and in summer clothes rather than togged up in gloves, hats, boots etc.
Avalon
6th November 2006, 02:20 PM
Hmm, after much thought - im going with archaic and unprofessional working practices. Most other things ive got used to - but the sheer hell that is the Kiwi IT workplace, the treatment of staff, the laid back (Aka "Lazy") attitude which we keep coming accross, and the fact that despite it being practically stone age - they still think they are "world leaders" :eek: .
Doing our heads in :D
Doing our heads in :D
Carol
6th November 2006, 02:44 PM
Quite a lot....
Living in a country where I have no roots is my number one.
Closely followed by...
Walking through my local mall and not recognising anyone at all.:roll
Not being able to "pop round" to my mums.:no
Seriously wondering if my sense of humour is perverse ......or is it just the "kiwi" sense of humour that is lacking.
Missing the plop of letters coming through the letterbox.
Having Easter in Winter and Christmas in Summer. And birthdays all the wrong way round too.
Bonfire night is always strange.
Being able to go out into my garden to get a lemon for my G and T
(nice though)
Driving on roads which would be classed as "country" roads in the UK and realising it is actually the main highway north.
The pre-occupation of kiwis to get their mortgages paid off asap - and that they have never heard of an endowment mortgage and worse - when you explain it - realising you were DONE big time.
Vegetation - it's SO different!
Then there are the supermarkets....;)
Living in a country where I have no roots is my number one.
Closely followed by...
Walking through my local mall and not recognising anyone at all.:roll
Not being able to "pop round" to my mums.:no
Seriously wondering if my sense of humour is perverse ......or is it just the "kiwi" sense of humour that is lacking.
Missing the plop of letters coming through the letterbox.
Having Easter in Winter and Christmas in Summer. And birthdays all the wrong way round too.
Bonfire night is always strange.
Being able to go out into my garden to get a lemon for my G and T
(nice though)
Driving on roads which would be classed as "country" roads in the UK and realising it is actually the main highway north.
The pre-occupation of kiwis to get their mortgages paid off asap - and that they have never heard of an endowment mortgage and worse - when you explain it - realising you were DONE big time.
Vegetation - it's SO different!
Then there are the supermarkets....;)
jo-and-jeff
6th November 2006, 02:48 PM
The hardest thing for me to come to terms with here is the apparent naiveté and inability on the part of Kiwis to recognize corruption, and business practices that should be illegal. Or maybe they do recognize them, but they are either too timid or too apathetic to actually speak up and do something about it.
It's as though corruption and graft are relatively new concepts here, and since it hasn't been a really pervasive problem up to this point, Kiwis never felt it necessary to create laws making that behavior illegal.
It seems clear that the people engaging in the corruption expect that the public will just roll over and play dead, and that they think they can get away with doing anything they want.
When Labour spent $500,000 on an investigation that determined that Philip Taito Field was not guilty of misconduct (despite serious public evidence to the contrary), I waited in vain for the public outcries of the investigation being a sham and a criminal use of ratepayer monies. Finally, after months of it dragging on, Kiwis seemed to get serious enough to actually do something about it, but he's not in jail yet -- hell, he's not even been removed from his position as an MP!
Likewise, when the new 8-year contract for Auckland-area pathology services was awarded by the Auckland DHB to a non-existent company created by a member of the Auckland DHB, I waited in vain for the public outcries of "conflict of interest" and "personal gain from a public service position". Zilch. Nada. Nothing.
If Kiwis as a nation don't become vigilant and willing to speak up about this sort of thing, the country will likely be decimated by the increasing involvement and influence of Americans (many of whom are professionals at the corruption/ bribery/ graft/ conflict of interest/ undue influence game).
Jo
:uhoh
It's as though corruption and graft are relatively new concepts here, and since it hasn't been a really pervasive problem up to this point, Kiwis never felt it necessary to create laws making that behavior illegal.
It seems clear that the people engaging in the corruption expect that the public will just roll over and play dead, and that they think they can get away with doing anything they want.
When Labour spent $500,000 on an investigation that determined that Philip Taito Field was not guilty of misconduct (despite serious public evidence to the contrary), I waited in vain for the public outcries of the investigation being a sham and a criminal use of ratepayer monies. Finally, after months of it dragging on, Kiwis seemed to get serious enough to actually do something about it, but he's not in jail yet -- hell, he's not even been removed from his position as an MP!
Likewise, when the new 8-year contract for Auckland-area pathology services was awarded by the Auckland DHB to a non-existent company created by a member of the Auckland DHB, I waited in vain for the public outcries of "conflict of interest" and "personal gain from a public service position". Zilch. Nada. Nothing.
If Kiwis as a nation don't become vigilant and willing to speak up about this sort of thing, the country will likely be decimated by the increasing involvement and influence of Americans (many of whom are professionals at the corruption/ bribery/ graft/ conflict of interest/ undue influence game).
Jo
:uhoh
Diny
6th November 2006, 03:38 PM
wondering if my sense of humour is perverse ......[i]or is it just the "kiwi" sense of humour that is lacking
Oh yeah - with you on that one. This kind of links up with what I was saying about Kiwis and me being on totally different wavelengths.
As for Avalons' observation that (some Kiwis) think they're world leaders - this too 'aggs' me. I put this down to the fact that they are constantly being told that 'average' is 'awesome'.
My darling hubby (himself a Kiwi) describes NZ as a nation of people with little mans disease who are happy to celebrate mediocrity.
Good on 'em though - they all seem very happy to be that way - and who am I to ask for change (although God only knows how much I'd love to suggest it).
Flak jacket buttoned up.
Diny
Oh yeah - with you on that one. This kind of links up with what I was saying about Kiwis and me being on totally different wavelengths.
As for Avalons' observation that (some Kiwis) think they're world leaders - this too 'aggs' me. I put this down to the fact that they are constantly being told that 'average' is 'awesome'.
My darling hubby (himself a Kiwi) describes NZ as a nation of people with little mans disease who are happy to celebrate mediocrity.
Good on 'em though - they all seem very happy to be that way - and who am I to ask for change (although God only knows how much I'd love to suggest it).
Flak jacket buttoned up.
Diny
Anita & Marco
6th November 2006, 04:22 PM
[QUOTE=Carol]Quite a lot....
The pre-occupation of kiwis to get their mortgages paid off asap - and that they have never heard of an endowment mortgage and worse - when you explain it - realising you were DONE big time.
QUOTE]
Hi,
I am not a kiwi but what is an endowment mortgage? I have never heard of that either - must be a British thing?
Anita
The pre-occupation of kiwis to get their mortgages paid off asap - and that they have never heard of an endowment mortgage and worse - when you explain it - realising you were DONE big time.
QUOTE]
Hi,
I am not a kiwi but what is an endowment mortgage? I have never heard of that either - must be a British thing?
Anita
jo-and-jeff
6th November 2006, 05:46 PM
what is an endowment mortgage?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_mortgage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_mortgage
jubjub
6th November 2006, 05:58 PM
I must say that the kiwis I have met have all been friendly, some more friendly than others, but I have not been made to feel ignored or the odd one out, so thats good! most of them have spent a fair bit of time in the UK for their OE, and love talking about it, and wonder why I am here, cos they loved it there!
I was a bit of a curiosity at coffee group to start with, as I was the only non kiwi in regular attendance, but its not even mentioned any more!
I was a bit of a curiosity at coffee group to start with, as I was the only non kiwi in regular attendance, but its not even mentioned any more!
katandbob
6th November 2006, 06:27 PM
the NW Meet's at Mascrat - oh and the Choc puddings (see http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8605) ...... :nice1
and of course my daughter and grandson!
but if i can get them to move, and a few Forum members down for a BBQ I'd he sorted :nice1
Oh and if Bluff heads for Texas richness with the oil thats predicted to bring the money here....I'll build some chalets and become rich!! :nice1 ooh well I can dream!
Kat :D
and of course my daughter and grandson!
but if i can get them to move, and a few Forum members down for a BBQ I'd he sorted :nice1
Oh and if Bluff heads for Texas richness with the oil thats predicted to bring the money here....I'll build some chalets and become rich!! :nice1 ooh well I can dream!
Kat :D
jo-and-jeff
6th November 2006, 10:06 PM
I'd have to go with what I've come to call the "kiwi paradox". They project the attitude that "if it ain't kiwi, it ain't, um, much, mate" but deep down, they're terribly insecure.
It's as if they feel as though anything from "overseas" is better (hence the big OE?). Despite all of the things that this tiny country has contributed to the world (Sir Edmund Hillary, flight, the jet boat, the electric fence, automated milking machines, Split Enz etc etc), they still think that anything from "overseas" must be better. Of course, the corollary is that anyone from overseas who is willing to relocate to NZ must in some way be defective.
I find it particulary interesting to hear from kiwi clinicians that if I (an American, trained at one of the Meccas of anatomic pathology) have any question about my diagnosis, I should send it "overseas" (anywhere, to anyone, just as long as it's "overseas"). I could walk 10 feet and show my case to a South African, or to another American. For 20 feet, I could get a kiwi opinion (as if that mattered). Fifty feet and I could hear from a Filipino. Ninety feet and a Malaysian could give me her opinion, but I, a person from "overseas" myself (for Pete's sake), must send my case "overseas" for a second opinion because any of us who chose to migrate here must be defective in some way.
I don't want to come across as too bitter, but if this country has a shortage of pathologists, they deserve it! Don't even get me started on the NZ Medical Council; they have the same insecure xenophobia. Arrrrrrrrrrgh.
Jeff
It's as if they feel as though anything from "overseas" is better (hence the big OE?). Despite all of the things that this tiny country has contributed to the world (Sir Edmund Hillary, flight, the jet boat, the electric fence, automated milking machines, Split Enz etc etc), they still think that anything from "overseas" must be better. Of course, the corollary is that anyone from overseas who is willing to relocate to NZ must in some way be defective.
I find it particulary interesting to hear from kiwi clinicians that if I (an American, trained at one of the Meccas of anatomic pathology) have any question about my diagnosis, I should send it "overseas" (anywhere, to anyone, just as long as it's "overseas"). I could walk 10 feet and show my case to a South African, or to another American. For 20 feet, I could get a kiwi opinion (as if that mattered). Fifty feet and I could hear from a Filipino. Ninety feet and a Malaysian could give me her opinion, but I, a person from "overseas" myself (for Pete's sake), must send my case "overseas" for a second opinion because any of us who chose to migrate here must be defective in some way.
I don't want to come across as too bitter, but if this country has a shortage of pathologists, they deserve it! Don't even get me started on the NZ Medical Council; they have the same insecure xenophobia. Arrrrrrrrrrgh.
Jeff
Diny
7th November 2006, 05:31 AM
I'd have to go with what I've come to call the "kiwi paradox". They project the attitude that "if it ain't kiwi, it ain't, um, much, mate" but deep down, they're terribly insecure.
Jeff
Excellent post.
Jeff
Excellent post.
Oregonkiwi
7th November 2006, 06:06 AM
It's as if they feel as though anything from "overseas" is better (hence the big OE?). Despite all of the things that this tiny country has contributed to the world (Sir Edmund Hillary, flight, the jet boat, the electric fence, automated milking machines, Split Enz etc etc), they still think that anything from "overseas" must be better.
I'm not trying to deny your specific experiences with this, but as a general statement, I really don't agree.
yes, many young kiwis have a big OE. Imagine living in Colorado or Oregon your whole life, of course you'd want to experience life outside those borders. Most of my friends from high school lived overseas for years. BUT, now that we're all in our 30s and raising kids, everyone has moved back to NZ. "Overseas" is a fun place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there. Kiwis have a lot of pride in NZ and patriotism, we just don't feel the need to display it by driving around with flags on our cars and "God Bless NZ'' t-shirts.
Of course, the corollary is that anyone from overseas who is willing to relocate to NZ must in some way be defective.
:confused:
I'm not trying to deny your specific experiences with this, but as a general statement, I really don't agree.
yes, many young kiwis have a big OE. Imagine living in Colorado or Oregon your whole life, of course you'd want to experience life outside those borders. Most of my friends from high school lived overseas for years. BUT, now that we're all in our 30s and raising kids, everyone has moved back to NZ. "Overseas" is a fun place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live there. Kiwis have a lot of pride in NZ and patriotism, we just don't feel the need to display it by driving around with flags on our cars and "God Bless NZ'' t-shirts.
Of course, the corollary is that anyone from overseas who is willing to relocate to NZ must in some way be defective.
:confused:
Diny
7th November 2006, 07:32 AM
Kiwis have a lot of pride in NZ and patriotism, we just don't feel the need to display it by driving around with flags on our cars and "God Bless NZ'' t-shirts.
:confused:
You make some good points - it's interesting to hear from a Kiwi who's been 'overseas' and come back.
However, I really don't mean to offend anybody here but the above statement - from what I have experienced - couldn't be further from the truth.
My kids are always asking me ...'why do kiwis think they're the best at everything' .... from the mouths of babes.
As a nation - Kiwis NEVER miss an opportunity to trumpet themselves and the country.
Yes NZ has contributed some pretty wonderful things to the world, jet engine, electric fence etc etc, and yes it is a wonderful country (scenery wise), but what strikes an outsider looking in (like myself) ....... there's a fine line between national pride and resting on the laurels of somebody elses achievements.
It's one thing trumpeting the 'best in the world' routine ...... talking the talk is easy ...... but walking the walk is slightly different.
Diny
:confused:
You make some good points - it's interesting to hear from a Kiwi who's been 'overseas' and come back.
However, I really don't mean to offend anybody here but the above statement - from what I have experienced - couldn't be further from the truth.
My kids are always asking me ...'why do kiwis think they're the best at everything' .... from the mouths of babes.
As a nation - Kiwis NEVER miss an opportunity to trumpet themselves and the country.
Yes NZ has contributed some pretty wonderful things to the world, jet engine, electric fence etc etc, and yes it is a wonderful country (scenery wise), but what strikes an outsider looking in (like myself) ....... there's a fine line between national pride and resting on the laurels of somebody elses achievements.
It's one thing trumpeting the 'best in the world' routine ...... talking the talk is easy ...... but walking the walk is slightly different.
Diny
willsken
7th November 2006, 07:50 AM
Tell that to the England Rugby team!!! :D
Hannah
7th November 2006, 08:59 AM
I'm with Carol on the vegetation. The plants freaked me out! Palm trees in the middle of the street, and 'Birds of paradise' plants in people's front gardens. Orange and lemon trees all over the place. Far out. Even after 6 months i felt spooked by the plants.
Supermarkets - again very weird. To begin with i had to feel what was in the packet because the names outside the packet didn't give any clues!
People going on about my accent, and laughing at the way i said some words. It's only when you go into another country that you realise you even have an accent! Like Sal I was a novelty on the swimming club committee for a while and i'm sure some of my lunch and BBQ invites were opportunities to listen to my accent! Excellent, I'm happy with that - never one to turn down a free afternoon tea!
I really liked the kiwis! I don't agree with that kiwis are aloof - I know lots of aloof (often shy, coming across as aloof) people in UK as well as some I met in NZ. People are people wherever you go and humans share many more characteristics than they differ on. The sense of humour thing did seem different, but that's just more a cultural thing I think. What we find funny is often shaped by the society we live in and our past shared experience. We felt when we first arrived in NZ that kiwis had no sense of humour, but when we tuned into it we found it was alive and kicking and actually very funny. The early preconceptions I had of kiwis as being very different was more down to my closed mindedness when I arrived (and stereotypes), as i got to know people well I found more similarities than differences. I had lots of kiwi friends by the time I left and I missed them! Many were good genuine people with a lot of trust - as so many of us in the UK are!
Bottom line is still the plants. Weird!!!!!!!
Supermarkets - again very weird. To begin with i had to feel what was in the packet because the names outside the packet didn't give any clues!
People going on about my accent, and laughing at the way i said some words. It's only when you go into another country that you realise you even have an accent! Like Sal I was a novelty on the swimming club committee for a while and i'm sure some of my lunch and BBQ invites were opportunities to listen to my accent! Excellent, I'm happy with that - never one to turn down a free afternoon tea!
I really liked the kiwis! I don't agree with that kiwis are aloof - I know lots of aloof (often shy, coming across as aloof) people in UK as well as some I met in NZ. People are people wherever you go and humans share many more characteristics than they differ on. The sense of humour thing did seem different, but that's just more a cultural thing I think. What we find funny is often shaped by the society we live in and our past shared experience. We felt when we first arrived in NZ that kiwis had no sense of humour, but when we tuned into it we found it was alive and kicking and actually very funny. The early preconceptions I had of kiwis as being very different was more down to my closed mindedness when I arrived (and stereotypes), as i got to know people well I found more similarities than differences. I had lots of kiwi friends by the time I left and I missed them! Many were good genuine people with a lot of trust - as so many of us in the UK are!
Bottom line is still the plants. Weird!!!!!!!
Diny
7th November 2006, 09:48 AM
Tell that to the England Rugby team!!! :D
Oh God Nic .... I HATE rugby ... don't care who's playing or losing, if I ruled the world it would be banned !!!!!!!!
Whether they'll ever hold it again is anybody's guess, but England are actually current world champs at rugby - flook maybe - but facts are facts.
Diny
Oh God Nic .... I HATE rugby ... don't care who's playing or losing, if I ruled the world it would be banned !!!!!!!!
Whether they'll ever hold it again is anybody's guess, but England are actually current world champs at rugby - flook maybe - but facts are facts.
Diny
Moorf
7th November 2006, 11:00 AM
I really don't see what the problem is with Kiwi's being proud of their achievements in the past or the future? It's refreshing to live amongst people who appreciate where they live, love their country and are proud. And for such a small country they're very deserving of their reputations for resourcefullness and achievement. Having said that, they can be their own worst critics too...
To find out more about Kiwi heroes and achievers check out NZEdge website... might give you a deeper insight in to their psyche too.
http://www.nzedge.com/
To find out more about Kiwi heroes and achievers check out NZEdge website... might give you a deeper insight in to their psyche too.
http://www.nzedge.com/
jo-and-jeff
7th November 2006, 01:19 PM
Oregonkiwi: I think you have misunderstood me. I certainly mean no offense. I think NZ is a fantastic place to live, and if kiwis need to head overseas to appreciate what they have right here, that's great. I think everyone should travel overseas, no matter where they are from. I have simply grown tired of having to defend my decision to relocate to NZ. NZ is great, and I am not too pleased with what is going on in the States right now; it's as simple as that. It just seems that I meet a lot of insecure kiwis who can't imagine why anyone would move here from the States or from Oz (places I often hear referred to as "lands of opportunity"). Kiwis should be proud of their country, and I appreciate their not putting "God Bless NZ" on their cars. If I never see "God Bless America" on a car again, it will be too soon.
Moorf
7th November 2006, 01:27 PM
Just thought of another one.... Watties.
Can't stand their Tomato Ketchup, beans etc etc - tastes like paint stripper, so acidy.. yuk.. I confess to having only ever bought good old Heinz ketchup here (can get it in all big stores) and Oak brand baked beans (because I refuse to pay $4 for "English Style" Heinz beans)!
Can't stand their Tomato Ketchup, beans etc etc - tastes like paint stripper, so acidy.. yuk.. I confess to having only ever bought good old Heinz ketchup here (can get it in all big stores) and Oak brand baked beans (because I refuse to pay $4 for "English Style" Heinz beans)!
Diny
7th November 2006, 01:42 PM
Oh God yeah .... Watties baked beans .... dreadful !!! Have you tried Pams? They're not too bad at all. Haven't tried oak - must give them a go.
You'll only ever find Heinz tomato ketchup in this house too. Watties tomato sauce has an overpowering taste of cloves (IMHO).
Diny
You'll only ever find Heinz tomato ketchup in this house too. Watties tomato sauce has an overpowering taste of cloves (IMHO).
Diny
MB
7th November 2006, 02:07 PM
John - good thread. Long answer approaching, and I have made this point elsewhere here recently. Anyway:
I think the hardest part has been to do with our situation rather than with NZ per se. That is, we had a modestly useful amount of money to bring over, and are using most of that on our housing strategy, but we brought over little compared with many migrants. And for me the ongoing challenge has been a kind of low-grade ambivalence whereby half the time I know we have already cut back on kinds of spending more or less as much as we can, but nevertheless each day our outgoings seem sometimes alarming in their quickly cumulative effect. E.g., suppose on one day an average direct-debit utility bill gets subtracted from our account: well, if one the same day we buy some petrol and one of us buys, say, a couple of v.cheap, generic household necessaries at the Warehouse and a six-buck bottle of wine, that's a grand total of another hundred bucks or more 'gone'.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that we fall into the 'nickel-and-dime-spending' trap -- we're aware of that peril. It's more that we know that we hardly ever spend on eating out, cinema, theatre, recreation or pubs (let alone nickel-and-dime culprits such as CDs or magazines), but that even the outgoings we do have just seem to mount up really quickly. If we look at seven days of outgoings online, almost everything is in the tens of $$$ and the lion's share of it is "essentials" such as groceries and petrol.
I'll admit that I buy some supermarket beer and wine that I don't have to, but that's pretty much it as far as luxuries go. Books we get from the library; we cook everything at home; no Sky TV; most of my time is spent at home and/or looking after our son whereby the only expense is sixty-cent sweets from the dairy; and we spend hardly anything on new clothes, shoes, or whatever.
By the way, the only reason I brought up the thing about our coming to NZ with relatively modest means compared to others is that the level of spending I am talking about is small enough that anyone coming over with, say, a six-figure cash buffer would probably not "feel" this level of expense in the way that we do at the moment. And good on 'em: it's lovely to come over with a lot of cash, especially if you've worked hard doing up a house or business and selling it when it's shipshape. Excellent stuff.
It's just that while we set up here and work steadily to convert my wife's already-excellent NZ career steps into something full time, even everyday spends seem quite scary when we look at what we are actually earning.
Anyway, things look quite encouraging for us for early next year onwards -- hopefully -- but in the meantime I'm in that frame of mind whereby I log on to our account and say "$18 at Warehouse....$40 fuel...$160 groceries...$9 beer....$15 doc visit....*groan*..." :laugh
But we're lovin' it and anticipated it might be like this, at least for a while. We knew what our assets and wants were, and NZ doesn't owe us a living. It's up to us to make our way here. :yes
I think the hardest part has been to do with our situation rather than with NZ per se. That is, we had a modestly useful amount of money to bring over, and are using most of that on our housing strategy, but we brought over little compared with many migrants. And for me the ongoing challenge has been a kind of low-grade ambivalence whereby half the time I know we have already cut back on kinds of spending more or less as much as we can, but nevertheless each day our outgoings seem sometimes alarming in their quickly cumulative effect. E.g., suppose on one day an average direct-debit utility bill gets subtracted from our account: well, if one the same day we buy some petrol and one of us buys, say, a couple of v.cheap, generic household necessaries at the Warehouse and a six-buck bottle of wine, that's a grand total of another hundred bucks or more 'gone'.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that we fall into the 'nickel-and-dime-spending' trap -- we're aware of that peril. It's more that we know that we hardly ever spend on eating out, cinema, theatre, recreation or pubs (let alone nickel-and-dime culprits such as CDs or magazines), but that even the outgoings we do have just seem to mount up really quickly. If we look at seven days of outgoings online, almost everything is in the tens of $$$ and the lion's share of it is "essentials" such as groceries and petrol.
I'll admit that I buy some supermarket beer and wine that I don't have to, but that's pretty much it as far as luxuries go. Books we get from the library; we cook everything at home; no Sky TV; most of my time is spent at home and/or looking after our son whereby the only expense is sixty-cent sweets from the dairy; and we spend hardly anything on new clothes, shoes, or whatever.
By the way, the only reason I brought up the thing about our coming to NZ with relatively modest means compared to others is that the level of spending I am talking about is small enough that anyone coming over with, say, a six-figure cash buffer would probably not "feel" this level of expense in the way that we do at the moment. And good on 'em: it's lovely to come over with a lot of cash, especially if you've worked hard doing up a house or business and selling it when it's shipshape. Excellent stuff.
It's just that while we set up here and work steadily to convert my wife's already-excellent NZ career steps into something full time, even everyday spends seem quite scary when we look at what we are actually earning.
Anyway, things look quite encouraging for us for early next year onwards -- hopefully -- but in the meantime I'm in that frame of mind whereby I log on to our account and say "$18 at Warehouse....$40 fuel...$160 groceries...$9 beer....$15 doc visit....*groan*..." :laugh
But we're lovin' it and anticipated it might be like this, at least for a while. We knew what our assets and wants were, and NZ doesn't owe us a living. It's up to us to make our way here. :yes
montana
7th November 2006, 02:28 PM
It just seems that I meet a lot of insecure kiwis who can't imagine why anyone would move here from the States or from Oz (places I often hear referred to as "lands of opportunity"). Kiwis should be proud of their country, and I appreciate their not putting "God Bless NZ" on their cars. If I never see "God Bless America" on a car again, it will be too soon.[/QUOTE]
Jo, you seem really bitter about America.
I am an American as well and while there are things I don't like about the current political situation, I am really tired of the problems with the political system being transferred to every single living person in the U.S. I guess that's what I have found hardest about living in NZ. The media here goes on about America this and America that, and Americans this and Americans that as if we are all of one mindset and are all flag waving, Bush loving wackos. People seem to forget that there are 50 states in the nation, each with its own special characteristics and people, and as many different ethnicities, cultures and opinions as you could find. And many really wonderful, kind people.
As for living here, I have never been personally attacked or been engaged in a political discussion that I didn't consider appropriate. People here have just judged me as a person and I have never been asked to defend my decision to live here.
I don't see kiwis as insecure - I think they are just more self deprecating.
Jo, you seem really bitter about America.
I am an American as well and while there are things I don't like about the current political situation, I am really tired of the problems with the political system being transferred to every single living person in the U.S. I guess that's what I have found hardest about living in NZ. The media here goes on about America this and America that, and Americans this and Americans that as if we are all of one mindset and are all flag waving, Bush loving wackos. People seem to forget that there are 50 states in the nation, each with its own special characteristics and people, and as many different ethnicities, cultures and opinions as you could find. And many really wonderful, kind people.
As for living here, I have never been personally attacked or been engaged in a political discussion that I didn't consider appropriate. People here have just judged me as a person and I have never been asked to defend my decision to live here.
I don't see kiwis as insecure - I think they are just more self deprecating.
MB
7th November 2006, 02:49 PM
Oh, I forgot something. In case anyone wonders why I focused on money in my reply:
both my wife and I had experience, pre-NZ, of spending years in a country that we were not brought up in. Because of this we were maybe somewhat prepared for other aspects of moving to a new country that otherwise we might have found at least as challenging as the financial aspect of matters.
Of course each country and each move is different, but if you have lived for a long time in a 'new' country at least once before, then you do get perhaps a bit of practice at tuning yourself to the possibility of, e.g., cultural, social or gastronomic differences. You anticipate it. So the cold-bucket-of-water feel might be diminished a bit.
I do think that the getting used to changing, at least as much as the content of changes themselves, is a very useful facet. And it doesn't have to be via living in foreign countries before you move to NZ: goodness knows there are probably people on the forum who have had to adapt to circumstances a lot trickier than we have experienced. It's just that living abroad is something we have done.
both my wife and I had experience, pre-NZ, of spending years in a country that we were not brought up in. Because of this we were maybe somewhat prepared for other aspects of moving to a new country that otherwise we might have found at least as challenging as the financial aspect of matters.
Of course each country and each move is different, but if you have lived for a long time in a 'new' country at least once before, then you do get perhaps a bit of practice at tuning yourself to the possibility of, e.g., cultural, social or gastronomic differences. You anticipate it. So the cold-bucket-of-water feel might be diminished a bit.
I do think that the getting used to changing, at least as much as the content of changes themselves, is a very useful facet. And it doesn't have to be via living in foreign countries before you move to NZ: goodness knows there are probably people on the forum who have had to adapt to circumstances a lot trickier than we have experienced. It's just that living abroad is something we have done.
Diny
7th November 2006, 03:23 PM
It's just that living abroad is something we have done.
Yeah - us too. We lived in Australia. Although, in those days, we didn't have the luxury of internet, web cams, cheap phone calls, forums etc to act as a kind of 'crutch, I have to say that living there was a doddle compared to living in NZ.
Maybe the fact that when we were in Oz we were alot younger, had no kids and both of us had very good jobs bringing in huge salaries - (nowadays only Mark can still tick that box - I'm a stay at home mum), went a long way to making it feel different.
However, putting all the trimmings (big money, no kids, only ourselves to please etc) to one side, it just seemed that everyday life in general was so much easier than here in NZ.
But -just to throw a spanner in the works, there's no way I'd go back to live in Oz, and I'm happy living here in NZ. How about that for a very confusing contradiction.
Diny
Yeah - us too. We lived in Australia. Although, in those days, we didn't have the luxury of internet, web cams, cheap phone calls, forums etc to act as a kind of 'crutch, I have to say that living there was a doddle compared to living in NZ.
Maybe the fact that when we were in Oz we were alot younger, had no kids and both of us had very good jobs bringing in huge salaries - (nowadays only Mark can still tick that box - I'm a stay at home mum), went a long way to making it feel different.
However, putting all the trimmings (big money, no kids, only ourselves to please etc) to one side, it just seemed that everyday life in general was so much easier than here in NZ.
But -just to throw a spanner in the works, there's no way I'd go back to live in Oz, and I'm happy living here in NZ. How about that for a very confusing contradiction.
Diny
MB
7th November 2006, 04:13 PM
However, putting all the trimmings (big money, no kids, only ourselves to please etc) to one side, it just seemed that everyday life in general was so much easier than here in NZ.
But -just to throw a spanner in the works, there's no way I'd go back to live in Oz, and I'm happy living here in NZ. How about that for a very confusing contradiction.
Diny
Not so much a contradiction as just plain interesting. Great post, Diny. Now I might be pushing things here, and I know that you have probably answered the following question either explicitly or between the lines in previoius posts... but given the paradox that you've just outlined, how do you think it is that Oz's ease of living is outpaced by some quality about NZ that makes you prefer living in NZ despite Oz's easier living? How does that work? I know you have commented before on the demeanour of some Australians - is (some of it) down to that?
If you'd rather leave this topic be and not comment -- maybe leave it as just an interesting conundrum -- fine. But I really liked what you said, and you've got me curious!
By the way, before you reply, do you want me to pop to the coat rack and fetch your flak jacket? :laugh :laugh
But -just to throw a spanner in the works, there's no way I'd go back to live in Oz, and I'm happy living here in NZ. How about that for a very confusing contradiction.
Diny
Not so much a contradiction as just plain interesting. Great post, Diny. Now I might be pushing things here, and I know that you have probably answered the following question either explicitly or between the lines in previoius posts... but given the paradox that you've just outlined, how do you think it is that Oz's ease of living is outpaced by some quality about NZ that makes you prefer living in NZ despite Oz's easier living? How does that work? I know you have commented before on the demeanour of some Australians - is (some of it) down to that?
If you'd rather leave this topic be and not comment -- maybe leave it as just an interesting conundrum -- fine. But I really liked what you said, and you've got me curious!
By the way, before you reply, do you want me to pop to the coat rack and fetch your flak jacket? :laugh :laugh
Diny
7th November 2006, 04:56 PM
By the way, before you reply, do you want me to pop to the coat rack and fetch your flak jacket? :laugh :laugh
Matt - you are forever the gentleman.
Actually - I don't think I'll need the jacket though. Not actually able to put my finger on one thing in particular, I think alot of it is down to the fact that our personal circumstances have changed.
In our Oz days we were very much the 'DINKS', we had time and money to throw about and the only people we had to take into consideration were ourselves. Our circustances meant that we were very much 'out there' socially. Mark was working with the best crew he's ever worked with and the 'oil patch expat' community lifestyle was like something out of Dallas. Add to this a liberal pinch of knowing that we wouldn't be in Oz for ever just seemed to help everything fall into place so much easier than it has here.
That's the 'personal/emotional' side of things covered.
As for Oz and it's inhabitants. First of all I'd like to say that we made some fantastic Aussie mates while living there - and they remain close to us to this day. (Time for jacket) ... I found that alot of the time however, it was very difficult to engage a local in a conversation that went further than how much beer they they could consume before falling off their bar stool. The people I worked with were a great bunch, but by the time I left I was crawling up the wall ....... I know it sounds 'up myself' to say this, but I just soooo wanted a conversation with a modicum of depth and intellect. I'm NOT the brain of Britain but I need a certain amount of mental stimulation.
I know I'm making a few sweeping generalisations here - but I'm just saying it how it was for me. like anywhere else in the world, Oz is inhabited by all kinds of personalities.
Lots of other reasons too but I would definately need my jacket if I mentioned them. Let's just say, that if you've ever been on the receiving end of a bigotted (sp) - never been further than the horizon, narrow minded Aussie's comments towards &*(%^$#%&*())(&^*() Poms - then you'll understand.
As for NZ ..... totally different situation for us. Our personal circumstances mean that we're not so 'out there' socially. Yes we've made some really good Kiwi mates, but they are thin on the ground compared to what we had in Oz. Also, the main thing that seems to make life here abit of a 'drudge' sometimes can be the laid back attitude (easily mistaken for lazy) - the contstant Kiwi flag waving and the (sometimes quaint - often frustrating) way that we seem to have stepped into some kind of -35 years time warp when getting off the plane. On good days these can be charming reasons which make me love NZ ... on bad days they can irritate the hell out of me.
Well there you go - I'm sure I've just gone round in a few circles and not actually answered your question at all. I can't stress enough the fact that these are my opinions and experiences, and there's NO WAY I'm saying that this is black and white and the case for everybody ..... but you did ask.
Diny
Matt - you are forever the gentleman.
Actually - I don't think I'll need the jacket though. Not actually able to put my finger on one thing in particular, I think alot of it is down to the fact that our personal circumstances have changed.
In our Oz days we were very much the 'DINKS', we had time and money to throw about and the only people we had to take into consideration were ourselves. Our circustances meant that we were very much 'out there' socially. Mark was working with the best crew he's ever worked with and the 'oil patch expat' community lifestyle was like something out of Dallas. Add to this a liberal pinch of knowing that we wouldn't be in Oz for ever just seemed to help everything fall into place so much easier than it has here.
That's the 'personal/emotional' side of things covered.
As for Oz and it's inhabitants. First of all I'd like to say that we made some fantastic Aussie mates while living there - and they remain close to us to this day. (Time for jacket) ... I found that alot of the time however, it was very difficult to engage a local in a conversation that went further than how much beer they they could consume before falling off their bar stool. The people I worked with were a great bunch, but by the time I left I was crawling up the wall ....... I know it sounds 'up myself' to say this, but I just soooo wanted a conversation with a modicum of depth and intellect. I'm NOT the brain of Britain but I need a certain amount of mental stimulation.
I know I'm making a few sweeping generalisations here - but I'm just saying it how it was for me. like anywhere else in the world, Oz is inhabited by all kinds of personalities.
Lots of other reasons too but I would definately need my jacket if I mentioned them. Let's just say, that if you've ever been on the receiving end of a bigotted (sp) - never been further than the horizon, narrow minded Aussie's comments towards &*(%^$#%&*())(&^*() Poms - then you'll understand.
As for NZ ..... totally different situation for us. Our personal circumstances mean that we're not so 'out there' socially. Yes we've made some really good Kiwi mates, but they are thin on the ground compared to what we had in Oz. Also, the main thing that seems to make life here abit of a 'drudge' sometimes can be the laid back attitude (easily mistaken for lazy) - the contstant Kiwi flag waving and the (sometimes quaint - often frustrating) way that we seem to have stepped into some kind of -35 years time warp when getting off the plane. On good days these can be charming reasons which make me love NZ ... on bad days they can irritate the hell out of me.
Well there you go - I'm sure I've just gone round in a few circles and not actually answered your question at all. I can't stress enough the fact that these are my opinions and experiences, and there's NO WAY I'm saying that this is black and white and the case for everybody ..... but you did ask.
Diny
jo-and-jeff
7th November 2006, 05:05 PM
It just seems that I meet a lot of insecure kiwis who can't imagine why anyone would move here from the States or from Oz (places I often hear referred to as "lands of opportunity"). Kiwis should be proud of their country, and I appreciate their not putting "God Bless NZ" on their cars. If I never see "God Bless America" on a car again, it will be too soon.Jo, you seem really bitter about America.
That was Jeff, responding to Oregonkiwi's comment:
Kiwis have a lot of pride in NZ and patriotism, we just don't feel the need to display it by driving around with flags on our cars and "God Bless NZ'' t-shirts.
His point is that he doesn't particularly appreciate the fact that the religious right is taking over in America (nor do I), nor do we appreciate that the fact that the religious right IS taking over in America is shoved in our faces everywhere we go in our home country.
Bitter? About what's happening in the United States, yes, we are. It is no longer the free country in which we grew up, and we're pretty angry about that.
We left the U.S. for a multitude of reasons, including:
the increasing amount of religious doctrine being built into government laws and policies is seriously threatening democracy
a tremendous number of American Civil Rights have been simply wiped out by the Patriot Act, and by the provisions of Patriot Act II that have sneakily been passed as riders on unrelated bills (rights like freedom of speech, the right to know what charges have been laid against us, the right to legal representation and a speedy trial, protection from unlawful search, seizure, and wiretapping, etc. -- rights that were supposedly the cornerstone of American Democracy)
we were hesitant to speak up politically for fear of being persecuted (ask the political protesters who are now on the U.S. government's "No-Fly" list (http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/foia/watchlist_foia_analysis.html), and the people who have been jailed or ejected from public buildings because they were wearing anti-Bush t-shirts)
we have doubts whether there will ever be a genuine free election in the U.S. again (check out BlackBoxVoting.org (http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org) under "Investigations" for the evidence)
the military is considering instituting an involuntary draft for physicians (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/19draft.html), up to the age of 44 (my partner is a physician) to support their illegal war
and now just the latest, but no doubt not the last outrage: the Department of Homeland Security wants to implement (http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3023) "exit visas" for citizens and visitors in the U.S. (http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf
)
Both of us (but especially Jeff when they find out what he does for a living and that he took a 40% pay cut to come here) have had Kiwis say to us, "Why would you want to come here?" I don't know if it's insecurity, an unrealistic view of America as the Great Land of Wonderfulness, or if they just don't realize how many wonderful things NZ has to offer, but at least some Kiwis find it hard to believe that we would consciously choose to leave good jobs in the U.S. and come here.
"Our country is the best, and we New Zealanders are better than everyone else, too" (an attitude that seems to be especially pervasive during the hiring process, where migrants' education, experience, and character are considered not nearly as good) appears to be at least partly bravado, over-compensating for the fact that they're not really sure that's the case.
Jo
That was Jeff, responding to Oregonkiwi's comment:
Kiwis have a lot of pride in NZ and patriotism, we just don't feel the need to display it by driving around with flags on our cars and "God Bless NZ'' t-shirts.
His point is that he doesn't particularly appreciate the fact that the religious right is taking over in America (nor do I), nor do we appreciate that the fact that the religious right IS taking over in America is shoved in our faces everywhere we go in our home country.
Bitter? About what's happening in the United States, yes, we are. It is no longer the free country in which we grew up, and we're pretty angry about that.
We left the U.S. for a multitude of reasons, including:
the increasing amount of religious doctrine being built into government laws and policies is seriously threatening democracy
a tremendous number of American Civil Rights have been simply wiped out by the Patriot Act, and by the provisions of Patriot Act II that have sneakily been passed as riders on unrelated bills (rights like freedom of speech, the right to know what charges have been laid against us, the right to legal representation and a speedy trial, protection from unlawful search, seizure, and wiretapping, etc. -- rights that were supposedly the cornerstone of American Democracy)
we were hesitant to speak up politically for fear of being persecuted (ask the political protesters who are now on the U.S. government's "No-Fly" list (http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/foia/watchlist_foia_analysis.html), and the people who have been jailed or ejected from public buildings because they were wearing anti-Bush t-shirts)
we have doubts whether there will ever be a genuine free election in the U.S. again (check out BlackBoxVoting.org (http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org) under "Investigations" for the evidence)
the military is considering instituting an involuntary draft for physicians (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/19draft.html), up to the age of 44 (my partner is a physician) to support their illegal war
and now just the latest, but no doubt not the last outrage: the Department of Homeland Security wants to implement (http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3023) "exit visas" for citizens and visitors in the U.S. (http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf
)
Both of us (but especially Jeff when they find out what he does for a living and that he took a 40% pay cut to come here) have had Kiwis say to us, "Why would you want to come here?" I don't know if it's insecurity, an unrealistic view of America as the Great Land of Wonderfulness, or if they just don't realize how many wonderful things NZ has to offer, but at least some Kiwis find it hard to believe that we would consciously choose to leave good jobs in the U.S. and come here.
"Our country is the best, and we New Zealanders are better than everyone else, too" (an attitude that seems to be especially pervasive during the hiring process, where migrants' education, experience, and character are considered not nearly as good) appears to be at least partly bravado, over-compensating for the fact that they're not really sure that's the case.
Jo
Diny
7th November 2006, 05:15 PM
"Our country is the best, and we New Zealanders are better than everyone else, too" (an attitude that seems to be especially pervasive during the hiring process, where migrants' education, experience, and character are considered not nearly as good) appears to be at least partly bravado, over-compensating for the fact that they're not really sure that's the case.
Jo
I wish I could get my point across as clearly as that - I totally agree with you.
Diny
Jo
I wish I could get my point across as clearly as that - I totally agree with you.
Diny
MB
7th November 2006, 05:44 PM
Well there you go - I'm sure I've just gone round in a few circles and not actually answered your question at all. I can't stress enough the fact that these are my opinions and experiences, and there's NO WAY I'm saying that this is black and white and the case for everybody ..... but you did ask.
Diny
Terrific answer, Diny. Ta much for taking the time. A lot of it seems to come down to your time on Oz being of a particular era for you, and also that a number of Aussie folks seemed frustrating to talk with. Re. the first of these two factors, what a great time for you that sounded. It sounds to me that, even if you don't buy absolutely 100% into Wolfe's dictum that "you can't go home again" as far as trying to recapture that era goes, you are nevertheless wise enough to wager that your circumstances now (having had kids, etc.) are at least somewhat different and that NZ -- for all its imperefctions -- just seems to resonate better as a 'home' for your current situation than would the ol' Dallas-esque Oz you experienced when you were DINKs.
Re. the whole paradox, I think I understand what you're getting at very well 'cos of my own situation, which is different to yours but has some vague parallels. As I've probably said before, any mixed feelings I have about NZ are chiefly to do with the great affection I had for the niche we had carved ourselves in Seattle. Although financially nothing like your Oz days, we had got into a rhythm in a city/region that I just came to adore and to which I had contributed a little bit over the years.
We felt pulled to NZ and felt we had to take the opportunity when it arose (you know how quickly NZIS' wants and rules can change). And NZ is turning out to be more or less exactly what we had anticipated, in terms of prices, lifestyle, etc.
Partly I felt as though I wanted to leave Seattle on a high (BTW all this is a bit different for Vera because Seattle is her hometown, so NZ has been a refereshing change) and it just seemed the right time to move to NZ. But I do miss the US sincerely and as you know I speak out for Americans as much as I can.
One reason all this feels a bit weird is that on the days I miss Seattle acutely it's not because I suddenly start wistfully seeing value in things about it that I thundered against... 'cos there wasn't much I disliked about it in the first place! Far from it: if I am guilty of a folly, it's probably of the "It wasn't broke, so why did you try to fix it?" variety... but actually I don't think we were foolish at all to move to NZ. We wanted to do it, and we left the US cleanly with our modest $$$ and have got by OK here so far.
Blimey, long-winded or what? Anyway, I think what I'm saying is that I share your contemplations about the whole business of moving from place to place (geographically and personally), and I like very much the way you speak your mind. :nice1
Diny
Terrific answer, Diny. Ta much for taking the time. A lot of it seems to come down to your time on Oz being of a particular era for you, and also that a number of Aussie folks seemed frustrating to talk with. Re. the first of these two factors, what a great time for you that sounded. It sounds to me that, even if you don't buy absolutely 100% into Wolfe's dictum that "you can't go home again" as far as trying to recapture that era goes, you are nevertheless wise enough to wager that your circumstances now (having had kids, etc.) are at least somewhat different and that NZ -- for all its imperefctions -- just seems to resonate better as a 'home' for your current situation than would the ol' Dallas-esque Oz you experienced when you were DINKs.
Re. the whole paradox, I think I understand what you're getting at very well 'cos of my own situation, which is different to yours but has some vague parallels. As I've probably said before, any mixed feelings I have about NZ are chiefly to do with the great affection I had for the niche we had carved ourselves in Seattle. Although financially nothing like your Oz days, we had got into a rhythm in a city/region that I just came to adore and to which I had contributed a little bit over the years.
We felt pulled to NZ and felt we had to take the opportunity when it arose (you know how quickly NZIS' wants and rules can change). And NZ is turning out to be more or less exactly what we had anticipated, in terms of prices, lifestyle, etc.
Partly I felt as though I wanted to leave Seattle on a high (BTW all this is a bit different for Vera because Seattle is her hometown, so NZ has been a refereshing change) and it just seemed the right time to move to NZ. But I do miss the US sincerely and as you know I speak out for Americans as much as I can.
One reason all this feels a bit weird is that on the days I miss Seattle acutely it's not because I suddenly start wistfully seeing value in things about it that I thundered against... 'cos there wasn't much I disliked about it in the first place! Far from it: if I am guilty of a folly, it's probably of the "It wasn't broke, so why did you try to fix it?" variety... but actually I don't think we were foolish at all to move to NZ. We wanted to do it, and we left the US cleanly with our modest $$$ and have got by OK here so far.
Blimey, long-winded or what? Anyway, I think what I'm saying is that I share your contemplations about the whole business of moving from place to place (geographically and personally), and I like very much the way you speak your mind. :nice1
Diny
7th November 2006, 06:29 PM
I like very much the way you speak your mind. :nice1
Cheers Matt ... I'm sure it'll be me downfall eventually.
Diny
Cheers Matt ... I'm sure it'll be me downfall eventually.
Diny
StevieD
7th November 2006, 07:15 PM
The very (too) laid back attitude - and the Kiwi's being so disorganised and inefficient. But I am getting there, although I do not think I will ever reach that level of the Kiwi.
Cheers,
Anita
Guess I got a chance down there then!! :laugh
Cheers,
Anita
Guess I got a chance down there then!! :laugh
StevieD
7th November 2006, 07:20 PM
If Kiwis as a nation don't become vigilant and willing to speak up about this sort of thing, the country will likely be decimated by the increasing involvement and influence of Americans (many of whom are professionals at the corruption/ bribery/ graft/ conflict of interest/ undue influence game).
I was going to say Jo, how come Bush has been in power so long?? :laugh
I was going to say Jo, how come Bush has been in power so long?? :laugh
jo-and-jeff
7th November 2006, 08:35 PM
I was going to say Jo, how come Bush has been in power so long?? :laugh
I know that you're joking, but, as you know, I've got an opinion for every situation.
This is just speculation on my part, but:
it's easier to believe what you are told than to actually expend the effort to check into it, research it, and find out for yourself
it's easier to believe what the people in power are telling you, because if you don't believe them, it means you have to get up off the couch and actually do something about it
people want to believe that things are good, or okay, or right, because that's what they need (this is a corollary to the people who get taken by scams, despite the fact that they knew it sounded too good to be true, because they really need the money)
people in general are, sadly, easily manipulated by the hot buttons like religion, patriotism, gay marriage, bigotry or racism, and their tax money
These factors are deadly when coupled with a force which has no morals, ethics or scruples whatsoever, and which is willing to say anything, do anything (no matter how dirty), destroy anyone and anything, to accomplish their goals.
Bush did not win in 2000, the election was stolen for him. And if you add up all the votes in 2004 (https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapNation&tab=ED04) from the tens of thousands of people who never received their absentee ballots, had their polling places closed early, were illegally refused the right to vote at the poll, and whose votes were mysteriously changed by the computerized election software (strangely, a hugely disproportionate number of all of these people were Democrats), then Bush didn't win in 2004, either.
Any of you who are perplexed by the situation in the U.S. and would like to learn more, I highly recommend Paul Krugman's book The Great Unraveling (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Unravelling-Three-Scandalous-Years/dp/0713997435), in which he discusses an entity he calls the "Revolutionary Power". You can read more about it here (http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002360.php).
Jo
We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum levity...
:laugh
I know that you're joking, but, as you know, I've got an opinion for every situation.
This is just speculation on my part, but:
it's easier to believe what you are told than to actually expend the effort to check into it, research it, and find out for yourself
it's easier to believe what the people in power are telling you, because if you don't believe them, it means you have to get up off the couch and actually do something about it
people want to believe that things are good, or okay, or right, because that's what they need (this is a corollary to the people who get taken by scams, despite the fact that they knew it sounded too good to be true, because they really need the money)
people in general are, sadly, easily manipulated by the hot buttons like religion, patriotism, gay marriage, bigotry or racism, and their tax money
These factors are deadly when coupled with a force which has no morals, ethics or scruples whatsoever, and which is willing to say anything, do anything (no matter how dirty), destroy anyone and anything, to accomplish their goals.
Bush did not win in 2000, the election was stolen for him. And if you add up all the votes in 2004 (https://voteprotect.org/index.php?display=EIRMapNation&tab=ED04) from the tens of thousands of people who never received their absentee ballots, had their polling places closed early, were illegally refused the right to vote at the poll, and whose votes were mysteriously changed by the computerized election software (strangely, a hugely disproportionate number of all of these people were Democrats), then Bush didn't win in 2004, either.
Any of you who are perplexed by the situation in the U.S. and would like to learn more, I highly recommend Paul Krugman's book The Great Unraveling (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Unravelling-Three-Scandalous-Years/dp/0713997435), in which he discusses an entity he calls the "Revolutionary Power". You can read more about it here (http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/002360.php).
Jo
We now return you to your regularly scheduled forum levity...
:laugh
StevieD
8th November 2006, 06:11 AM
So that's how he did it!!! :laugh Fantastic answer - thank you ...
leigh31
8th November 2006, 01:57 PM
I agree with SO much of what others have posted. What has been so strange for me is the lack of professionalism in the workplace. Co-workers talking about their drug use (in a "i'm cool" way), the LANGUAGE used in the work place (the dreaded "c" word that very few dare to use in the US - much less very loudly at work!) I hear often here, the drinking at work - not just Fridays - whenever the mood suits, and, of course, race. I was shocked at my first departmental meeting the HEAD OF THE COMPANY started talking about the "new, big black man" they recruited from the U.K. He went on to say that "he lacked in confidence and motivation, but they think he'll work out". Definitetly weird. Heard others talk about asians, indians, etc... This sort of thing was FAR from typical in my U.S. work experience.
And I have to say, in my experience, I agree about Kiwis being aloof, and not particularly friendly (at least in Auckland). People haven't been warm (although some have warmed up), some have been down right mean. Today I was corrected on how I said the word "Weet-bix" (the cereal). In the US, it's pronouned "Weet-A-Bix". I said that to someone I didn't know at work today, and he said snootily responded "It's pronounced Weet - BIX in New Zealand". I wouldn't care, if it wasn't for the tone he used (which was equivalent to, "if you're going to live in this country, get it right") UGH.
And I have to say, in my experience, I agree about Kiwis being aloof, and not particularly friendly (at least in Auckland). People haven't been warm (although some have warmed up), some have been down right mean. Today I was corrected on how I said the word "Weet-bix" (the cereal). In the US, it's pronouned "Weet-A-Bix". I said that to someone I didn't know at work today, and he said snootily responded "It's pronounced Weet - BIX in New Zealand". I wouldn't care, if it wasn't for the tone he used (which was equivalent to, "if you're going to live in this country, get it right") UGH.
montana
8th November 2006, 02:40 PM
[QUOTE=jo-and-jeff]That was Jeff, responding to Oregonkiwi's comment:
His point is that he doesn't particularly appreciate the fact that the religious right is taking over in America (nor do I), nor do we appreciate that the fact that the religious right IS taking over in America is shoved in our faces everywhere we go in our home country.
Bitter? About what's happening in the United States, yes, we are. It is no longer the free country in which we grew up, and we're pretty angry about that.
We left the U.S. for a multitude of reasons, including:
the increasing amount of religious doctrine being built into government laws and policies is seriously threatening democracy
a tremendous number of American Civil Rights have been simply wiped out by the Patriot Act, and by the provisions of Patriot Act II that have sneakily been passed as riders on unrelated bills (rights like freedom of speech, the right to know what charges have been laid against us, the right to legal representation and a speedy trial, protection from unlawful search, seizure, and wiretapping, etc. -- rights that were supposedly the cornerstone of American Democracy)
we were hesitant to speak up politically for fear of being persecuted (ask the political protesters who are now on the U.S. government's "No-Fly" list (http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/foia/watchlist_foia_analysis.html), and the people who have been jailed or ejected from public buildings because they were wearing anti-Bush t-shirts)
we have doubts whether there will ever be a genuine free election in the U.S. again (check out BlackBoxVoting.org (http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org) under "Investigations" for the evidence)
the military is considering instituting an involuntary draft for physicians (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/19draft.html), up to the age of 44 (my partner is a physician) to support their illegal war
and now just the latest, but no doubt not the last outrage: the Department of Homeland Security wants to implement (http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3023) "exit visas" for citizens and visitors in the U.S. (http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf
)
My point was that the media here seems to equate all Americans with the current political regime and that is just not true. I still love America in spite of all its problems. That is not a stick my head in the sand attitude - it is an appreciation for the country I grew up in and the many wonderful people that live and work there.
Luckily, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is a wonderful thing.
His point is that he doesn't particularly appreciate the fact that the religious right is taking over in America (nor do I), nor do we appreciate that the fact that the religious right IS taking over in America is shoved in our faces everywhere we go in our home country.
Bitter? About what's happening in the United States, yes, we are. It is no longer the free country in which we grew up, and we're pretty angry about that.
We left the U.S. for a multitude of reasons, including:
the increasing amount of religious doctrine being built into government laws and policies is seriously threatening democracy
a tremendous number of American Civil Rights have been simply wiped out by the Patriot Act, and by the provisions of Patriot Act II that have sneakily been passed as riders on unrelated bills (rights like freedom of speech, the right to know what charges have been laid against us, the right to legal representation and a speedy trial, protection from unlawful search, seizure, and wiretapping, etc. -- rights that were supposedly the cornerstone of American Democracy)
we were hesitant to speak up politically for fear of being persecuted (ask the political protesters who are now on the U.S. government's "No-Fly" list (http://www.epic.org/privacy/airtravel/foia/watchlist_foia_analysis.html), and the people who have been jailed or ejected from public buildings because they were wearing anti-Bush t-shirts)
we have doubts whether there will ever be a genuine free election in the U.S. again (check out BlackBoxVoting.org (http://www.BlackBoxVoting.org) under "Investigations" for the evidence)
the military is considering instituting an involuntary draft for physicians (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/19/politics/19draft.html), up to the age of 44 (my partner is a physician) to support their illegal war
and now just the latest, but no doubt not the last outrage: the Department of Homeland Security wants to implement (http://sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=3023) "exit visas" for citizens and visitors in the U.S. (http://hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf
)
My point was that the media here seems to equate all Americans with the current political regime and that is just not true. I still love America in spite of all its problems. That is not a stick my head in the sand attitude - it is an appreciation for the country I grew up in and the many wonderful people that live and work there.
Luckily, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is a wonderful thing.
montana
8th November 2006, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE=jo-and-jeff](an attitude that seems to be especially pervasive during the hiring process, where migrants' education, experience, and character are considered not nearly as good) appears to be at least partly bravado, over-compensating for the fact that they're not really sure that's the case.
I do agree. I have found the qualifications process to be a lot of ridiculous hoop jumping, and the tendency to hire a kiwi first regardless of the migrant's experience level highly frustrating and demeaning.
I do agree. I have found the qualifications process to be a lot of ridiculous hoop jumping, and the tendency to hire a kiwi first regardless of the migrant's experience level highly frustrating and demeaning.
Diny
8th November 2006, 03:56 PM
(the dreaded "c" word that very few dare to use in the US - much less very loudly at work!)
Today I was corrected on how I said the word "Weet-bix" (the cereal). In the US, it's pronouned "Weet-A-Bix". I said that to someone I didn't know at work today, and he said snootily responded "It's pronounced Weet - BIX in New Zealand". I wouldn't care, if it wasn't for the tone he used (which was equivalent to, "if you're going to live in this country, get it right") UGH.
I know a girl here who uses that word as a matter of course ..... as in .... "I've had a right 'c' of a day" ..... it just about makes me physically sick.
It's pronounced weet-a-bix in the UK too - and I've also been pulled up on that one.
Diny
Today I was corrected on how I said the word "Weet-bix" (the cereal). In the US, it's pronouned "Weet-A-Bix". I said that to someone I didn't know at work today, and he said snootily responded "It's pronounced Weet - BIX in New Zealand". I wouldn't care, if it wasn't for the tone he used (which was equivalent to, "if you're going to live in this country, get it right") UGH.
I know a girl here who uses that word as a matter of course ..... as in .... "I've had a right 'c' of a day" ..... it just about makes me physically sick.
It's pronounced weet-a-bix in the UK too - and I've also been pulled up on that one.
Diny
jo-and-jeff
8th November 2006, 04:53 PM
My point was that the media here seems to equate all Americans with the current political regime and that is just not true. I still love America in spite of all its problems. That is not a stick my head in the sand attitude - it is an appreciation for the country I grew up in and the many wonderful people that live and work there.
Luckily, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is a wonderful thing.
Where, in what I said, did you ever get the idea that we don't still love America or the wonderful people who live and work there??? The reason we're so upset about what is happening is because we love our country of birth -- if we didn't, we wouldn't care what is going on there -- but we simply couldn't bear to watch, and live under, what was happening there any longer.
Your "point", to which I was responding, was that we seem bitter about what's happening in America. Hell yes, we're bitter. That doesn't mean we still don't love our country, and I can't imagine why you would assume that it does.
:(
Jo
Luckily, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that is a wonderful thing.
Where, in what I said, did you ever get the idea that we don't still love America or the wonderful people who live and work there??? The reason we're so upset about what is happening is because we love our country of birth -- if we didn't, we wouldn't care what is going on there -- but we simply couldn't bear to watch, and live under, what was happening there any longer.
Your "point", to which I was responding, was that we seem bitter about what's happening in America. Hell yes, we're bitter. That doesn't mean we still don't love our country, and I can't imagine why you would assume that it does.
:(
Jo
Moorf
8th November 2006, 07:21 PM
They're pronounced differently because they are different words - here it is Weet-bix in UK it's Weetabix.
Diny
8th November 2006, 08:40 PM
They're pronounced differently because they are different words - here it is Weet-bix in UK it's Weetabix.
But 40 odd years of saying 'weet-a-bix' is a hard habit to break !!
But 40 odd years of saying 'weet-a-bix' is a hard habit to break !!
kiwidebs
9th November 2006, 05:47 AM
But 40 odd years of saying 'weet-a-bix' is a hard habit to break !!
I've only been saying 'weet-a-bix' for 9 years and I'm finding it hard to change!! :laugh Also struggling with calling 'clingfilm' 'gladwrap'. :exit
I've only been saying 'weet-a-bix' for 9 years and I'm finding it hard to change!! :laugh Also struggling with calling 'clingfilm' 'gladwrap'. :exit
Andy-Dee
9th November 2006, 06:24 AM
GLADWRAP??????
Won't bother bringing my Space themed party banner for the buffet table then.
'Beware - clingfilm off the starboard bow'
Long story - not really an anorak
D
Won't bother bringing my Space themed party banner for the buffet table then.
'Beware - clingfilm off the starboard bow'
Long story - not really an anorak
D
montana
9th November 2006, 06:33 AM
Where, in what I said, did you ever get the idea that we don't still love America or the wonderful people who live and work there??? The reason we're so upset about what is happening is because we love our country of birth -- if we didn't, we wouldn't care what is going on there -- but we simply couldn't bear to watch, and live under, what was happening there any longer.
Your "point", to which I was responding, was that we seem bitter about what's happening in America. Hell yes, we're bitter. That doesn't mean we still don't love our country, and I can't imagine why you would assume that it does.
:(
Jo
It seems we have misunderstood one another. I meant to focus my argument at the media, rather than personally. I apologise if it came across that way.
I do hope that you find what you are looking for, and that everything works out for you.
Your "point", to which I was responding, was that we seem bitter about what's happening in America. Hell yes, we're bitter. That doesn't mean we still don't love our country, and I can't imagine why you would assume that it does.
:(
Jo
It seems we have misunderstood one another. I meant to focus my argument at the media, rather than personally. I apologise if it came across that way.
I do hope that you find what you are looking for, and that everything works out for you.
Moorf
9th November 2006, 06:42 AM
One from Woz, who can't stand that every sandwich or burger appears to be drenched in bbq sauce, which he hates.
K&CS
9th November 2006, 07:56 AM
For me it's the grated carrot and beetroot in every sandwich you get - have to spend half an hour picking it all out (and the sandwich is all purple and soggy by then).
willsken
9th November 2006, 08:15 AM
Oh, yes I remeber... yuk! Will they leave it out if you ask?
K&CS
9th November 2006, 10:42 AM
Yes, they will, but they look at you like you're absolutely bonkers for asking - the same thing if you ask for no salt on fish & chips!
Toto
11th November 2006, 12:21 PM
It's been hard for me to get used to:
Parrots in the trees
Seeing children in school uniforms driving cars
Lack of choice in the supermarkets
British bands touring and going as far as Australia but not bothering to come here. Thank heavens for Big Day Out!!
Parrots in the trees
Seeing children in school uniforms driving cars
Lack of choice in the supermarkets
British bands touring and going as far as Australia but not bothering to come here. Thank heavens for Big Day Out!!
suebeenz
11th November 2006, 02:50 PM
1) No Costco
2) Beef that tastes like... cow
3) No double pane glass
4) Paying per MB for Internet
5) The peanut butter
That's off the top of my head. Next time I get a shipping container, I know to load it up with PB! The Radler beer make up for it all though :cheers
2) Beef that tastes like... cow
3) No double pane glass
4) Paying per MB for Internet
5) The peanut butter
That's off the top of my head. Next time I get a shipping container, I know to load it up with PB! The Radler beer make up for it all though :cheers
jo-and-jeff
26th November 2006, 02:06 PM
Continued here...
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8908
http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8908
Carol
26th November 2006, 02:08 PM
Newspapers reporting on negative Poms
:laugh
:laugh
Avalon
26th November 2006, 02:14 PM
Newspapers reporting on negative Poms
Nice one! :raebanana
Nice one! :raebanana
bpk
27th November 2006, 09:29 AM
Many things, here are some
-Driving on the left
-Time difference
-Post delay (sometimes it take several day for a standard letter within NZ)
-Bad Kiwi driving
-4 seasons at one day
-paying more than one third of my salary as tax for NOTHING
-Driving on the left
-Time difference
-Post delay (sometimes it take several day for a standard letter within NZ)
-Bad Kiwi driving
-4 seasons at one day
-paying more than one third of my salary as tax for NOTHING
leosus
11th December 2006, 06:17 PM
I would have to say my #1 thing that is the hardest is missing my friends and family. I once read on here someone said "dont underestimate homesickness". Wise words indeed, but my fault for leaving a life I wasnt unhappy with.
Other than that, while I understand the whole purpose of having hours of business the way they are, I HATE IT!
#1 I work an almost 9-5 job. Have you any idea how hard it is to get stuff done (shop) when you have the same hours as all of the stores? i used to think it was charming until I struggled for 4 weeks to get internet via Vodafone who shuts at 2pm on saturdays.
#2 Tried and i stress tried to eat a 3 pm lunch or whatever on Sunday...we went to 3 diffferent restaraunts and each of them were serving alchohol, but no food till 4..??.. frustrating...
I am also getting a bit tired of everyone asking if I am Canadian, and then getting that look of absolute dissapointment when i say "no, i am an American". I am a hairdresser so i see so many differnt people a day...and I stand out like a sore thumb the minute i open my mouth. While the girls at work think my accent is "cool" you are hard pressed to find Kiwis who dont generalize Americans.
Other than that, while I understand the whole purpose of having hours of business the way they are, I HATE IT!
#1 I work an almost 9-5 job. Have you any idea how hard it is to get stuff done (shop) when you have the same hours as all of the stores? i used to think it was charming until I struggled for 4 weeks to get internet via Vodafone who shuts at 2pm on saturdays.
#2 Tried and i stress tried to eat a 3 pm lunch or whatever on Sunday...we went to 3 diffferent restaraunts and each of them were serving alchohol, but no food till 4..??.. frustrating...
I am also getting a bit tired of everyone asking if I am Canadian, and then getting that look of absolute dissapointment when i say "no, i am an American". I am a hairdresser so i see so many differnt people a day...and I stand out like a sore thumb the minute i open my mouth. While the girls at work think my accent is "cool" you are hard pressed to find Kiwis who dont generalize Americans.
Hannah
13th December 2006, 07:10 AM
On the subject of accents, my 7 year old started school in NZ and was asked by one of the 5 yr olds 'why don't you talk properly?' My daughter thought it was hilarious!!!
My daughter also told me yesterday that when she lived in NZ that after a week or so she started to THINK in a Kiwi accent. I thought it was just me that did that!!!! Anyone else do the same? or is it just a genetic thing?!
My daughter also told me yesterday that when she lived in NZ that after a week or so she started to THINK in a Kiwi accent. I thought it was just me that did that!!!! Anyone else do the same? or is it just a genetic thing?!
NeilV
13th December 2006, 07:42 AM
Off the top...
yielding to turners [GRR]
fines for parking "facing the wrong way!"
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"
dealing with in-laws after being married in the UK for 3 years
difficulty finding a good Doner[UK] or bunny chow [SA]
INTERNET ROBBERY! [pay per Mb]
no Primark / ASDA
harder finding Teaching work
need I go on...
BUT loving the weather, the laid-back attitude, and friendly/helpful nature!
yielding to turners [GRR]
fines for parking "facing the wrong way!"
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"
dealing with in-laws after being married in the UK for 3 years
difficulty finding a good Doner[UK] or bunny chow [SA]
INTERNET ROBBERY! [pay per Mb]
no Primark / ASDA
harder finding Teaching work
need I go on...
BUT loving the weather, the laid-back attitude, and friendly/helpful nature!
gpbenton
13th December 2006, 08:16 AM
Off the top...
yielding to turners [GRR]
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"
:confused:
For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
Thanks
yielding to turners [GRR]
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"
:confused:
For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
Thanks
KerryS
13th December 2006, 11:09 AM
:confused:
For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
Thanks
Yielding to turners is a driving rule. In NZ you have to give way to traffic turning to the right.
The Nippon Clipon is a widening extension on the Auckland Harbour Bridge which provides two additional traffic lanes in each direction.
For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
Thanks
Yielding to turners is a driving rule. In NZ you have to give way to traffic turning to the right.
The Nippon Clipon is a widening extension on the Auckland Harbour Bridge which provides two additional traffic lanes in each direction.
jo-and-jeff
13th December 2006, 01:35 PM
yielding to turners [GRR]
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
yielding to turners: in most countries, if a driver is making a turn across traffic (i.e. a left-hand turn in the U.S., or a right-hand turn in the UK), the driver turning across traffic is required to yield to oncoming traffic from the other direction, whether those vehicles are going straight, or turning into the same path as the driver turning across traffic. But in NZ, the driver making the left-hand turn across traffic has the right of way over oncoming traffic making a right-hand turn into the same path, but not over the oncoming traffic which is going straight. As you can imagine, this leads to quite a few accidents. However, they can't really change the law at this point, because it would cause even more accidents with people who have become accustomed to following the turning right-of-way law.
Nippon Clip-on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Harbour_Bridge)
Jo
crossing the "Nippon Clip-on"For someone who hasn't arrived yet, can you explain these?
yielding to turners: in most countries, if a driver is making a turn across traffic (i.e. a left-hand turn in the U.S., or a right-hand turn in the UK), the driver turning across traffic is required to yield to oncoming traffic from the other direction, whether those vehicles are going straight, or turning into the same path as the driver turning across traffic. But in NZ, the driver making the left-hand turn across traffic has the right of way over oncoming traffic making a right-hand turn into the same path, but not over the oncoming traffic which is going straight. As you can imagine, this leads to quite a few accidents. However, they can't really change the law at this point, because it would cause even more accidents with people who have become accustomed to following the turning right-of-way law.
Nippon Clip-on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_Harbour_Bridge)
Jo
© emigratenz.org. All Rights Reserved
vBulletin®
Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.