[suebeenz]

A :( day 4 eng lang?

Here's the story on CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/11/nz.text.ap/index.html) about allowing 'txt speak' in school.


The move has already divided students and educators who fear it could damage the English language.


If you can handle the potty mouth banter, here's the slashdot link (http://slashdot.org/articles/06/11/11/1356212.shtml) where i first spotted the story.

[syddee]

[QUOTE=suebeenz]A :( day 4 eng lang?

Sue I couldn't agree more. This is very disturbing especially as I thought my daughter was going to get a better education in NZ. I cannot believe that the authorities are considering this. I heard it on a radio news report and thought it was some sort of joke as I only caught the last bit of it. Apparently many kids do not know how to spell properly so this is seen as a way to alleviate the problem :confused: Surely the answer would be to give extra classes in correct english?

[Sam'n'Kelv]

From what I can gather, text-speak is only allowed in some exams, certainly not English.

In my experience, both as a teacher and an exam marker, students under the stress of exams can sometimes (although rarely) slip into text-speak. If the the student has made a worthwhile point, clearly understands the question and knows their material, then is seems overly harsh to punish them simply because they have not expressed themselves in standard English. Examiners are always looking to give credit for what for what students can do.

Certainly text speak would not be permitted in an English writing exam where formal English is called for. I must say that students generally are very skilful in being able to assess when text-speak is appropriate and when it is not. Text-speak tends to be an additional strand of the English language, rather than a replacement for it.

Don't panic.

[Daffy]

Similar over here (UK). I have a friend who's a teacher in a secondary school, and isn't allowd to correct the pupils when they write in "txt"

crazy.....

[Jenny & Mark]

As a maths teacher during an exam (not class or assignment work), I do not mind the occasional txt speak, but then I do teach maths - not English - and mathematics uses so many, many abbr. and symbols to convey meaning for everything from addition to therefore to the second derviative in terms of x.

I also understand during a stressful exam that a student can easily start to use "language" that is more familar to them. During a French language final exam, I flipped into writing in Dutch for two or more paragraphs without realising it. The same is true when I was trying to communicate in Ecuador.

Mark.

[suzer]

I feel old...

[Diny]

As you all know - I certainly don't consider my children are getting a better education here in NZ ... this just about knocks the icing off the cake !!!!!

Diny

[Kim39]

Got to agree with you all. Can't believe the authorities will allow this. It really wrankles me when Nic my eldest sit's there all weekend texting her mates, and can actually watch telly without taking her eyes of the screen whilst she is texting. One of her friends has 2 mobiles on the go at once and text's on both at the same time.

Wonder what excuse the kids will give when they fail some of the exams
As you say is this the time that the English language dies.


Kim

[Sam'n'Kelv]

I would actually marvel at the skill of someone who could send text on two phones or whilst watching TV. This is multi-tasking to a whole new level. :clap

There is in fact very little evidence to suggest that the use of text messaging has a negative effect on English Language - and believe me, plenty of studies have been done. As stated earlier, text users are generally skilful at being able to assess when it is appropriate and when it is not. The quality of formal written English produced by school students (at least in the UK where I work) continues to be very high. I am often very impressed when marking GCSE exam scripts by the quality of expression and by the ability of students to adapt their style to suit different audiences and purposes.

There is also a very big difference between allowing 'text speak' under the stress of (non-English) exams and actually tolerating its use under more normal circumstances. Teachers certainly do not TEACH students how to use it. I have also never come across the idea that teachers are not allowed to correct text speak when it appears inappropriately. Things may be different for other teachers, but as a teacher of English I would always correct such usage and so would every colleague I have ever worked with.

The brutal fact is that English Language is always in a constant state of change and there is very little that anyone can do about it. It will certainly never die. My view is to embrace change and accept that text messaging just adds another dimension to the human attempt to communicate.

Perhaps we should celebrate what young people can do, rather than run them down just because they can do something that we can't. :exit

[Lupin]

The brutal fact is that English Language is always in a constant state of change and there is very little that anyone can do about it. It will certainly never die. My view is to embrace change and accept that text messaging just adds another dimension to the human attempt to communicate.

Quite.

Language is always evolving, it's not a static state.

[Diny]

The quality of formal written English produced by school students (at least in the UK where I work) continues to be very high. I am often very impressed when marking GCSE exam scripts by the quality of expression and by the ability of students to adapt their style to suit different audiences and purposes.






Oh wow !!!! A positive comment about UK education .... you've made my day, and made me see that I'm not the only person who believes that the UK turns out some fine students. This has always been my own personal experience but having it 'confirmed' by somebody else is indeed refreshing.

Diny

[Carol]

I would actually marvel at the skill of someone who could send text on two phones or whilst watching TV. This is multi-tasking to a whole new level. :clap
I agree!!!
It amazes me how they can text with the phone stil in their pocket too!


There is also a very big difference between allowing 'text speak' under the stress of (non-English) exams and actually tolerating its use under more normal circumstances. Teachers certainly do not TEACH students how to use it.
I doubt they could! It is beyond too many ot them.
And the moment that started - I reckon the students would manage to find some other way of communicating!
Funny to think there could one day be a section in the (already lengthy) NZ English Curriculum on Texting.

The brutal fact is that English Language is always in a constant state of change and there is very little that anyone can do about it. It will certainly never die. My view is to embrace change and accept that text messaging just adds another dimension to the human attempt to communicate.
So true......
Each generation will bring its own values and technologies change at such a rate we will all constantly be challenged to learn new skills.
Whether we like it or not!
Traditions - if they are truly valued - will never die.


Perhaps we should celebrate what young people can do, rather than run them down just because they can do something that we can't. :exit
Hurrah!
*Big applause*

:nice1 :cheers



I've discussed this at great length with my teenagers and their friends.
They all seem to be of the same opinion.
If it makes life easier then use it.
If not - for example in the case of "formal" written English then dont.
But choice is good.

[Elyse]

As a teenager myself it thought i would add my opinion. When i read this thread i went back to my friends at college and dicussed it with them. Now although this text idea has a negative effect on English Language, It could help teenagers alot more in todays education. such as:

People who have Dyslexia, My friend at college said this way of wrighting would help her more in exams when trying to get her point acrossed, as at the moment she spends too much time focusing on actually spelling the words right.

Most teenagers today think that adults don't make enough effort to get involved with their ideas and veiws about education. This way shows teenagers that adults are showing an intrest in their every day lives, and are trying to involve that in the eductaion system such as using text speak.

[Carol]

Good post Elyse


Love your name by the way!

[jo-and-jeff]

People who have Dyslexia, My friend at college said this way of wrighting would help her more in exams when trying to get her point acrossed, as at the moment she spends too much time focusing on actually spelling the words right.
While it would be helpful to the people with reading or writing difficulties to not grade them too harshly on exams and essays, it is actually more important for them that English have a very standardised form and rules than for someone without the difficulties. Without that standardisation to guide them, how much more difficult it would probably be for them to read and comprehend what others write if others can just use any old kind of spelling and grammar!

I'm not saying the current standardised form and rules are necessarily the best choice. But we do need to have them, in one form or another. Would you want to risk your doctor or nurse having been allowed to not learn correct spellings, if they are writing or trying to read instructions and prescriptions for your care? Would you want the builder doing the gas lines, plumbing, and ventilation system for your house having to work off the arbitrarily-spelled chicken scratches of the architect? Would you want the auto parts assembler putting the safety devices in your car using specs supplied by an engineer in his own made-up language?

A standard, agreed-upon form of communication is utterly essential to our lives working smoothly. I'm not saying young people should be forbidden to learn txting language. I'm just saying that it's absolutely critical that they not be let off the hook for learning proper English during their first 13 years of education. If they don't, they might as well kiss any career in science, medicine, or engineering-related fields good-bye...

Jo

[Elyse]

I agree with you up to a certain point Jo and I understand what your saying. However no one is saying teenagers "have" to use this form of wrighting to anwser exam papers.
As for doctors and nurses wrighting prescriptions for your care in text speak i think thats a bit far fetched.

As much as people do not like it, the english language is changing. If you pick up any dictionary today you will see slang and to me if you can have slang in the dictionary then why cant you answer exam papers in text speak.

Where i live in the uk at the moment. You will find that many teenagers are bunking from school especially students who are in year 11. why is that, well exams have too much pressure on students today. I have found many of my class mates that will spend ages on one exam question and in their head they know the answer the just cant think of the correct words so instead they leave the question blank and end up with no marks. which i think you will find is worse than answering in text speak

If i was a mother i would rather have my child answering a question in text speak than not answering it at all.

Come on people is this idea really that bad ?

[Elyse]

By the way thanks Carol. Sam n Kelv loved your quote: Perhaps we should celebrate what young people can do, rather than run them down just because they can do something that we can't.

[Diny]

Come on people is this idea really that bad ?

I guess the answer to that question all depends on where your values and traditions lie.

No right or wrong - we all differ. Personally I think it's a dreadful idea and never have been able to get my head around this mamsy pamsy approach, taking the 'stress and strain' off people - what is wrong with getting people (of any age) to actually knuckle down and do the task at hand instead of crying off claiming it's all just too stressful.

But there again, I'm an old fashioned moo - each to their own. My kids aren't allowed mobile phones so text speak isn't a thing that concerns them - and long may that continue.

Diny

[jo-and-jeff]

As for doctors and nurses wrighting prescriptions for your care in text speak i think thats a bit far fetched.Is it? If young people aren't required to learn standard English in early school, University will be far too late to start -- they are going to have far harder subjects to learn at that point.


Where i live in the uk at the moment. You will find that many teenagers are bunking from school especially students who are in year 11. why is that, well exams have too much pressure on students today.I can assure you that there is no more pressure on young people to do well on exams than there was 10 or 20 years ago. Ask the other people on this forum about their own exam experiences.


So what's changed? Perhaps, in our parenting, we haven't provided the next generation with the appropriate determination and self-discipline that they need to be able to cope with the pressures they will face. I don't know. But exams are more high-pressure than they used to be is just an excuse that doesn't hold any water.

Of course exams are hard. Life is hard, and school is preparation to cope with life.

I know that that's not the response you want to hear. But consider this: If young people learn in school that it's okay to just give up because something is hard, how are they ever going to be able to manage at work where a boss expects a job to be done right, even if it is difficult?

Jo

[willsken]

I can assure you that there is no more pressure on young people to do well on exams than there was 10 or 20 years ago. Ask the other people on this forum about their own exam experiences.


So what's changed? Perhaps, in our parenting, we haven't provided the next generation with the appropriate determination and self-discipline that they need to be able to cope with the pressures they will face. I don't know. But exams are more high-pressure than they used to be is just an excuse that doesn't hold any water.

Of course exams are hard. Life is hard, and school is preparation to cope with life.

I know that that's not the response you want to hear. But consider this: If young people learn in school that it's okay to just give up because something is hard, how are they ever going to be able manage at work where a boss expects a job to be done right, even if it is difficult?

Jo



Jo 100% agree with the above. I know from my own children that they think they are entitled to things in life that they have made no effort to earn. Soon put them right though. We do our children no favours in pandering to them.

[Carol]

Yes - it is true.
You only get out of life what you put into it. Every part of it.


Assessment - ie exams etc is a VERY hot topic.
We all seemed to work harder in the good old days didn't we?


Well - actually I think not. It was just different.
Most of my son's subjects this year have been "internally assessed"

Easier?
Not in my humble opinion. The pressure to keep up and have to pass every part of the course work is long, drawn out and very hard work.
Some of his exams ARE externally assessed - he has Maths on Wednesday.
He has worked hard for that too.

I actually really like the NZQA system. It assesses and reports on what you can actually do. from that you can build onto the qualifications however you wish.
I have taught so many kids who are bright - no doubt about it - but have major problems with English language.
Writing them off as a "failure" is not an answer.

Telling them they are "brilliant" is not an answer.

Finding ways to take the skills they have and integrate them into society to be able to contribute to the workforce IS the answer.
They are probably never going to be a doctor that's for sure.

What I DO think is wrong is providing support for people who really cant be to find ways to help themselves. Eg women who have kids as a meal ticket to income support and then give nothing back.
The take take take society sickens me. At all levels.

The pressure on kids today is huge - just to be "successful".
And yes it always was.....

[Carol]

I'm an old fashioned moo
Diny



Moooooooo to you tooooooooo
:cheers
How many sleeps now till you mooooove your tribe back home for the holly and ivy?

c
x

[Elyse]

Taking your all your ages into consideration here are my replys:

Diny i found your post a little harsh,especially the sentence "instead of crying off claiming it's all just too stressful." some students use stress purely as an excuse and i think its wrong. However i have then met some students that are the brains of the class and even they buckle under the pressure.
Me and my class know what hard work is and we do knuckle down as im sure other classes in other schools and colleges do. As you said it is diffrent with everyone and there are thoses that don't want to do the work, but those people wouldnt even be in the classes let alone the actual exams.

Joe I don't need to ask people on this forum for there experiences, because im sure they will share them with us when they feel its nesscary.

Im sorry to say in these days, school does not prepare you for life, if anything it keeps you in the dark about most things and i should know.

Who mentioned anything about giving up. So you write a word in a text way.You havent failed or "given up" and besides isnt it better that a student answers an exam paper the way they know how at that present time than just sitting there with a blank expression and a empty test page.

Times are changing. The past is the past. We can't go back and a lot of things have changed since 10 or 20 years ago including the education system.
Why can't you celebrate what we can do instead of what we "shouldnt" do.

Look im giving you a teenagers opinion from a run down area that knows you have to do hard work to suceed in life, but it does need to be hard all the time if we can make things easier on ourselfs then why shouldnt we. Hell we have enough going on in our teen years without being told we can't anwer an exam paper they way we want to.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

thankyou.

[Sam'n'Kelv]

What a fantastic answer Elyse.

[jo-and-jeff]

Times are changing. The past is the past. We can't go back and a lot of things have changed since 10 or 20 years ago including the education system.
Why can't you celebrate what we can do instead of what we "shouldnt" do.
Thank you for your thoughtful post, Elyse.

I don't think anyone here is saying that we should stay stuck in the past, or that standard English shouldn't change and evolve over time. Many of us aren't even saying that txt language shouldn't be allowed at all in schoolwork.

And I'm certain everyone here would heartily agree that we should celebrate what young people can do (I certainly do).

Suppose you're really good at driving a car, as long as the road is straight. That's great, and we can celebrate that. But maybe you're not good at all at driving the car around corners or curves. Should we just let you drive anyway, knowing that you're probably going to get into a wreck that may injure or kill you, or even other people? Or should we make sure that you learn the skills that you are going to need to drive safely and successfully later in life?

I think the people here who are advocating that young people not be allowed to get past their first 13 years of education without learning standard English are doing so because we truthfully believe that it is extremely important, that it is in their best interests to have that skill later on. The last thing a parent wants is for the child they love, 20 years down the road, to not be able to achieve what they want because they didn't learn the appropriate tools early on.

If you end up being an artist, or a truck driver, or a midwife, or a plumber, you may not need to be very good at English. But if you haven't bothered to learn standard English and you decide you want to be a doctor, or a barrister, or a scientist, or an engineer, or a writer / journalist, or a teacher, you're going to be at a severe disadvantage in University compared to your classmates who recognized how important it would be. Talk about pressure then!


Who mentioned anything about giving up.Really, isn't saying "it's okay if I don't know English well because I can do some other things well" giving up, simply because learning it is too much effort?


Jo

[Diny]

How many sleeps now till you mooooove your tribe back home for the holly and ivy?

c
x

No more - I leave this afternoon !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Diny x

[Carol]

Have a great time pet.

THis is a really good debate. It is great to have inpu from all angles - ie Elyse's point of view compared to the next generation on....

Just thought of something to add.....

Was decimalisation brought in to make life easier?
Would any of us want to go back to pounds shillings and pence or pounds and ounces?

Do we have any less respect for money or products bought by weight just because we made life easier for ourselves?


Just another slant on it.....

[Diny]

I can assure you that there is no more pressure on young people to do well on exams than there was 10 or 20 years ago. Ask the other people on this forum about their own exam experiences.




But exams are more high-pressure than they used to be is just an excuse that doesn't hold any water.



Of course exams are hard. Life is hard, and school is preparation to cope with life.



I know that that's not the response you want to hear. But consider this: If young people learn in school that it's okay to just give up because something is hard, how are they ever going to be able to manage at work where a boss expects a job to be done right, even if it is difficult?

Jo






This is SO right. I just can't jump on this 'it's all too difficult' bandwagon (talking about exams here).

Surely if they find the exams too difficult it's saying alot about their own abilities ... why wrap it up in some lame excuse?

In my day (oh Lord, here we go) - but if you cracked under the strain of upcoming exams it was just classed as 'pre exam nerves', if you failed that exam you simply failed - no black or white. Nobody wrapped me up in cotton wool and said 'there there sweetheart - it's not you it's the nasty old exams getting harder'.

For heavens sake, let's stop watering down our standards and start facing up to life - taking the knocks on the chin and learning from them - not using them as a poor excuse for under achieving.

And no doubt I'll get a hammering for saying that - but let me tell you, I had to work hard, toil hard and then work hard a bit more to get every qualification I've got, none of it came easy to me.

It's the attitudes of society that have gone soft - not the exams that have got hard.

OK - off my soapbox now.

Diny

[Diny]

[QUOTE=Carol]Would any of us want to go back to pounds and ounces?

QUOTE]

Oh God yes please !!!!!!!!!

I only ever work in pounds and ounces - at the deli counter I ask for so many dollars worth etc. I can 'use' the metric system, it's just that I automatically calculate in imperial.

Diny

[Carol]

that's because you are an old moo
:D ;) :laugh

[Diny]

Yeah I know !!!

http://tcwozere.co.uk/smileys/clap.gif

[Diny]

Diny i found your post a little harsh.

I apologise for sounding harsh - that was not my intent - however, I don't apologise for the content of my reply - I still stand by it.

[Elyse]

Well diny just as you are getting off your soap box I am getting on to mine.Oh and i found you didnt reply to the point I made about your quote in my post.

The funny thing about you Jo is that you only answer certain paragraphs of my post, Your looking at this from an english language point of veiw and im looking at this from a teenagers point of veiw. I think your thinking that if we begin answering exams questions with text speak then all we are ever going to be learning in class is texting instead of the usual standard english which as sam'kelv says is complete rubbish.

Look Jo no one is saying anything about "learning" text speak all we are saying is that it might be handy if a child is stuck in an exam instead of leaving the question blank she answers the only way she knows how at that present time.

You might say exam pressure hasn't changed that much but i asure you it has. I know im going off the subject but 10 or 20 years ago there were more jobs round then there are today. Today if kids screw up an exam they think its then end of there lives. And thats nothing to do with education its do with peer pressure.

diny as you quoted:For heavens sake, let's stop watering down our standards and start facing up to life - taking the knocks on the chin and learning from them - not using them as a poor excuse for under achieving.

Kids are under achieving because its people in your generation telling them "you know what kids life is not going to be very good for you once we have gone because we have screwed it up for you already" They tell us there is no point in being ambitious because all we are ever going to be doing in clearing up the mess that your generation made.

Lets start worrying about kids having kids then how to answer an exam paper for heaven's sake.

I had to work hard, toil hard and then work hard a bit more to get every qualification I've got, none of it came easy to me.

Im sure your not the only person to work hard diny as my mother has told me many times she knows what it is like to go hungry.
Like i say if this way of answering an exam paper makes things easier they why shouldnt we use it. Dont you think we have enough to worry about let alone thinking did i just write omg instead of oh..my..god.

Maybe we should leave this debte where it is in case things become personal.

"l8ters"

[Diny]

Kids are under achieving because its people in your generation telling them "you know what kids life is not going to be very good for you once we have gone because we have screwed it up for you already" "

Oh my word !!!

Not sure about the adults you come into contact with dear, but I have never given the above advice to my children.

In fact, I think the youth of today have a great future - all they need to do to enjoy it is to knuckle down to reality and stop making excuses.

I could be really pedantic and suggest that your above quote is yet another excuse for not making the grade - but that would be harsh (and probably untrue).

I actually believe that people of my generation did a pretty good job, as did the generation before that - and so on and so forth.

I don't feel we 'stuffed it up' for the younger generation, and would never allow any child of mine to use that as an excuse for 'throwing in the towel'.

Diny

[Elyse]

Hmm not sure what world your living in diny. I have no doubt that you have ever told your children that they won't have good lives. The fact is dear that im not talking about adult in general. Im talking about certain teachers who sit in front of a class and say give up. And as much as you won't want to hear this diny im pretty sure sooner or later your children will be taught by one of theses teachers.

Look i have no shame is saying it. I live in one of the worse parts of essex going. Most teachers don't give a dam if we do well or not down here, as long as they get paid who cares.

As for us having a great future, even the prime minister says thats rubbish.

Oh and try not to mix excuses with actual real reasons.

As you say diny your an old mooo and im a stubborn teenager if someone said the sky was blue i bet we would both say no its purple. I dont think either of us is going to change their minds.

[jo-and-jeff]

I think your thinking that if we begin answering exams questions with text speak then all we are ever going to be learning in class is texting instead of the usual standard english which as sam'kelv says is complete rubbish.
Okay, suppose schools decide to let young people use txt speak on their exams. Exactly when are they going to be learning and practicing the English skills that they will need to have an edge in this competitive job market you're mentioning? When they're txting their friends? When they're posting online in Forums with other txt-speakers? When they're chatting on their moby with their other txt-speaking friends? When they're playing Nintendo or xBox or online RPGs? When they're hanging out at the shopping mall???

You may feel as though your life is harder and more pressured than your parents' generation, or your grandparents' generation, or your great-grandparents' generation. It simply isn't so. Every generation faces its own different set of challenges. When you're 20 or 30 years older and your children tell you that you don't understand because their lives are so much harder than yours, you will say the same thing to them that Diny and I are saying to you now.

For decades, many people who were much less intelligent than you and your schoolmates somehow still managed to learn English. It isn't the circumstances or the intelligence of the students that's the difference. It's the attitude. "It's too hard" and "we're under too much pressure" aren't true. They're just excuses.

Jo

[Elyse]

For goodness sake Jo,Teachers are not going to sit in class and say "good mourning children today we are going to learn how to say be right back in text speak"
Children will be taught the standard english wether they use it or not is up to them.

Everyones generation is diffrent but even my nan agrees that teenagers today have it harder than anyone and this is from a women who had to pee on her foot to stop chill blains. She says at least people "cared" back in her day about future generations.

and as for yours and diny's excuses remarks please take a look at this link then tell me exam pressure is just an excuse, I think your in for a shock girls.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/dep-j25.shtml

[Jenny & Mark]

Rhetorical questions:
Have you never replaced "because" with "b/c" in writing (not txt)?

Are we getting worked up about the generation gap increasing or are we actually offended by a student using txt speak on a geography exam?

Is not txt speak the modern acronym - should a student lose marks if they write H20 instead of dihydrogen oxide or BP instead of British Petroleum?

And with all this discussion of the English language dying, if txt speak is corrupting the language ...

Did English not already die when words that are not even English enter our books and news articles, such as Schadenfreude and laizer-faire?
(Those examples are literally English words today.)

Or did it not die when traditional words started attaining highly perverse meanings, such as screw and hummer?

Mark.

[Elyse]

Bravo Mark wonderful post !!!!

[Diny]

I think your in for a shock girls.



And I think that when you get a few more years under your belt get more life experience, and enter the work place - you'll find that saying 'this is too stressful' won't pay the bills.

I'm off on my hols now - (paid for by hard work) - bye all.

Diny

p.s Elyse - I'm presuming you're in the UK at the mo. If so, it's 3.32 am. Maybe more time spent sleeping and less time lecturing older, more experienced people will make the exams feel alot less stressful. Remember - we've all been there and done that.

p.p.s. I'm pretty sure I read a while ago how the stalwarts are up in arms because the (UK) exams are getting too easy.

[Elyse]

Diny did you actually "read" the link page. Im not talking about the work place im talking about schools, and the education system which i have more experince with than you do since i have just left.

Diny sleeping doesnt get the coursework and revising done and when you have insomnia and worries on the mind it very hard to sleep.

lecturing is a very strong word you used there diny i like to think its more giving my opinion and experinces. However i do feel you and Jo are some what ganging up on me.

[jo-and-jeff]

Children will be taught the standard english wether they use it or not is up to them.If that's the case, it does seems strange that you don't prove your point by using correct spelling and grammar yourself.


I think your in for a shock girls.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/jun2004/dep-j25.shtml
You are very young and ill-informed to be treating people who have a great deal more education and life experience in such a patronising manner.

The article you cite almost certainly has a fair bit of truth in it. There is no doubt that such a thing as test anxiety exists, or that there is great pressure on young people to succeed academically.

But that's what it is, an "article", not a scientific study. It doesn't quote statistics from controlled studies comparing suicide rates and reasons now to those of 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

Teenage suicide is nothing new. I seriously considered killing myself on more than one occasion as a teen (but then, my life couldn't possibly have been as stressful as yours).

There are a number of reasons why suicide rates might appear to show a huge increase, and you're not considering any of them: reporting of suicides is more accurate now than it used to be:because of increased awareness
because of improved reporting and data-gathering methods
because of less of the societal stigma which resulted in covering it up
more children are making it to the teenage years now due to lower infant mortality
traditional support systems, like nuclear families and extended families, aren't as strong as they used to be
young people today have easier access to methods of killing themselves
young people today aren't being brought up with the attitudes and self-discipline which might enable them to cope with stress as well as previous generations did


The bottom line is, when it comes time for applications to Uni or interviews for jobs, the person who has a better command of English will have the edge. Whingeing "oh, but I was under so much pressure in school, you should hire me anyway" will not get you anywhere with a prospective employer, or with a University Admissions manager.

Here's something for you to consider:
Amount of time each day I spent when I was your age
watching television : 0 hours
talking on the phone : 0 hours
txting or I-M'ing with friends : 0 hours
hanging out at the mall : 0 hours
playing video games : 0 hours
surfing the Internet : 0 hours
posting in online Forums : 0 hours
Gee, where do you suppose I managed to find the time to work on my studies, which probably greatly reduced the pressure on me in school?

How many hours each week do you and the other young people you know spend, outside of school, working on your studies and preparing for your exams? Do you think that that number might have anything to do with the enormous pressure that you are feeling in school?


i do feel you and Jo are some what ganging up on me.No one is ganging up on you. You are choosing to engage with adults in an adult conversation forum. If you don't seem to be able to hold your own, perhaps that is because you don't have the knowledge and experience to back up what you are saying. But what you are doing is certainly a good way to start to gain some of that knowledge and experience, and you are to be commended for choosing to do it.


I do truly wish you the best, Elyse, and that's why I've participated in exchanges with you. I fear that unless you decide to stop making excuses and become determined to do whatever it takes to overcome the pressures that you face (which probably means doing fewer "fun" things and doing more reading, studying, and practicing), life will only become more pressured for you.

Jo

[Elyse]

You are very young and ill-informed to be treating people who have a great deal more education and life experience in such a patronising manner.

This has now become personal

How dare you I may not be mature in years but i am mature in mind as i have been told by many people. And as for being ill-informed I could say the same for you.
All i have done is give my opinion and if you personally found it to be in a patronising manner then hard luck because it wasnt intended that way.

Teenage suicide is nothing new. I seriously considered killing myself on more than one occasion as a teen (but then, my life couldn't possibly have been as stressful as yours

What does my life have to do with anything in this post we are talking about anwering exam papers not how hard my life is. Teen suicide is not a new thing i was just showing that experts agree that suicide has gone up in the years due to exam pressure which prooves that its no excuse.

No one is ganging up on you. You are choosing to engage with adults in an adult conversation forum. If you don't seem to be able to hold your own, perhaps that is because you don't have the knowledge and experience to back up what you are saying. But what you are doing is certainly a good way to start to gain some of that knowledge and experience, and you are to be commended for choosing to do it

Since when was this a purley adult conversation forum, I am on here to prepare myself for a new life. If i cant have my say on a forum then where can i have it ?
I dont have to hold my own Jo like you I have people backing me all the way as my private messages point out.

I do truly wish you the best, Elyse, and that's why I've participated in exchanges with you. I fear that unless you decide to stop making excuses and become determined to do whatever it takes to overcome the pressures that you face (which probably means doing fewer "fun" things and doing more reading, studying, and practicing), life will only become more pressured for you

Excuses excuses excuses thats all you ever talk about well my dear they are not excuses they are real reasons. I am determined to do whatever it takes to stand up for what i believe in. Fun is all part of life Jo if you can't have fun then what can you have. And as for reading, studying, and practicing you don't even know me I didnt get where i am today by sitting around doing nothing.

I truly wish the best for you too Jo and who knows maybe sometime soon you may be able to make up for those lost hours of not watching tv or playing computer games and so fourth.....

[jo-and-jeff]

... i was just showing that experts agree that suicide has gone up in the years due to exam pressure... Elyse, you showed no such thing, and the fact that you don't even realize it just reinforces what I said.


How dare you I may not be mature in years but i am mature in mind as i have been told by many people... You may indeed be mature for your age. But you may also have gotten a more inflated view of your own maturity than you are able or willing to recognize. Your response to my quite valid points would certainly seem to indicate that that is the case.


who knows maybe sometime soon you may be able to make up for those lost hours of not watching tv or playing computer games and so fourth.....This is exactly to what I was referring when I spoke about lack of life experience. Wherever did you get the idea that I had something to make up for???

I participated in one sport or another, all year round. We had a school play every semester, and I always had a role, sometimes small, sometimes large. I belonged to several different kinds of clubs, which each had one or two meetings and activities a month. I wrote poetry and short stories, and took part in Speech Competitions. I also spent a great deal of time reading, some for school, some for personal pleasure, and I learnt a great deal that way. I took dancing lessons for more than 10 years, and loved them, but decided to give them up during high school when I realized that I could not do everything I was doing and still succeed in school.

You talk about how important fun is. Certainly, it is an important part of what makes life worthwhile. But what you say seems to suggest that, despite your claims of how pressured you are in school, you are not willing to make the sacrifices required to overcome that pressure; instead, you would rather just make excuses.


If i cant have my say on a forum then where can i have it ?
I dont have to hold my own...
I never said you couldn't have your say; in fact, I congratulated you for doing so, although you might not have understood the words that I used.

And yes, you do have to hold your own. Saying things like "other people say I'm mature" and "I have people backing me all the way as my private messages point out" isn't a substitute for being able to form your own cohesive thoughts and learning to communicate them articulately.


It seems clear that you are convinced that you are far wiser than me or anyone else here, and that you have nothing to learn from people who have already been and done the places and things that you have yet to experience.

Good Luck!

:)

Jo

[Elyse]

MY my Jo i guess neither of us are willing to give up.

Elyse, you showed no such thing, and the fact that you don't even realize it just reinforces what I said

read the link again my dear Jo

You may indeed be mature for your age. But you may also have gotten a more inflated view of your own maturity than you are able or willing to recognize. Your response to my quite valid points would certainly seem to indicate that that is the case.

Only your opinion which I have found usless to me.

I participated in one sport or another, all year round. We had a school play every semester, and I always had a role, sometimes small, sometimes large. I belonged to several different kinds of clubs, which each had one or two meetings and activities a month. I wrote poetry and short stories, and took part in Speech Competitions. I also spent a great deal of time reading, some for school, some for personal pleasure, and I learnt a great deal that way. I took dancing lessons for more than 10 years, and loved them, but decided to give them up during high school when I realized that I could not do everything I was doing and still succeed in school.

I didnt ask for your life story, I put forward my opinions to a debate on aswring exam papers.

You talk about how important fun is. Certainly, it is an important part of what makes life worthwhile. But what you say seems to suggest that, despite your claims of how pressured you are in school, you are not willing to make the sacrifices required to overcome that pressure; instead, you would rather just make excuses.

And yet again you talk about me personally which is silly because you know nothing about me.

I never said you couldn't have your say; in fact, I congratulated you for doing so, although you might not have understood the words that I used.

Dont speak as if im stupid, I have may not have your years but I have also found that you dont understand the words in my post either. I wonder what you would think if i typed in text speak no wonder you are agaist using it in exams if you cant understand my words that are in standard english.

It seems clear that you are convinced that you are far wiser than me or anyone else here, and that you have nothing to learn from people who have already been and done the places and things that you have yet to experience.

It also seems clear that you will be agaist anything i say on this debate, and show me theses people Jo who I think I am wiser than.

Get off your high horse I may not have yours and other peoples experinces but i have my experiences and my elders experiences.

p.s please stop making this personal I have yet to use my ingore list I am happy to debate but i will not be bullied.

[jodieinchch]

Calm down girls!

[smitjo]

Mmmmm. I've been reading this post with great interest and became more and more enraged as time went on! Firstly may I just say that I totally and utterly agree with everything in Diny's post and I'm no old moo!! I may have been out of school for seven years and out of uni for four but I truly believe that we as the 'younger generation' are making excuses for ourselves. How can we possibly say that pressures are more extreme than those experienced by the elder generation - seriously we have it easy, access to the internet is a prime example. The fact that more young children are committing suicide due to school and exam pressures - is this not because it is now reported more these days as it is a 'hot topic'? When I wrote my final school exams and was waiting for the results I honestly believed that it would be the end of the World if I failed. The peer pressure was immense - if you failed and had to re-take the year, you were seen as a non-starter, a loser....whatever! This hasn't changed - it happens today and it happened 20 years ago. However I soon learnt there are far more serious pressures in life (earning money, getting a job, supporting your family, dealing with death – need I go on?) and if I had failed my exams it certainly wouldn't have been the end of the World – maybe I would have needed to change my direction, taken a bit of stick from my mates – but it’s character building (what doesn’t hurt you will only make you stronger). I know that it is difficult to take advice from the ‘older generation’, they may seem slightly patronising but I can assure you that you would be giving the same advice in 20 years time. Life experience accounts for everything - although I am married and am supporting my own life, I still listen and learn from those older than myself.

As for the initial answer to the thread, I think that it is disgusting they are even contemplating using text language in exams. I struggled with English at school but I persevered and then went on to study journalism at University. Surely resorting to text language isn’t going to help ease the pressures of exams – if you don’t know your stuff, you don’t know your stuff – whatever you write it in!!! Let’s preserve the English language and not let it die with everything else!

[Sam'n'Kelv]

This is truly a fascinating thread, although I do not feel entirely comfortable with the tone that seems to have developed.

I feel quite strongly that the perceived threat to the English Language from 'text speak' is entirely misplaced. There seems to be a completely erroneous assumption that those who use text are somehow unable to write in standard English. This is simply not the case.

As far as I can gather there is no plan to promote the widespread use of text language in exam answers. The only thing that has been suggested is that credit should be given to an exam answer where the student clearly knows their material but where they have briefly slipped into text speak. This does not seem to threaten the fabric of society as we know it. To suggest that it is the first step on a slippery slope to linguistic destruction seems to be a panicky over reaction.

The supposed impact of text messaging on the English Language is a highly emotive issue, but the fact remains that there is limited evidence to suggest that it is having a negative impact. On the contrary, it appears that users actually exhibit a high level of skill when switching between the two codes and that the overall quality of formal expression remains high. I can honestly say that as an exam marker, I have NEVER come across an example of someone using text speak in an exam answer. This really does seem to be a storm in a tea-cup.

People seem to feel that by allowing text-speak in exams we pander to pupils. However, I have no doubt that if people were using text speak thirty years ago, then it would have been allowed in the exam thirty years ago. The same arguments have existed in the past over the use of slang, dialect and weak spelling. Most will accept that credit should be given to a student, in say History, where they have provided a good answer but where they have struggled with spelling. In some respects at least 'text speak' is nothing more than poor spelling. Clearly the use of text speak or slang is inappropriate in exam answers where the quality of formal writing is being assessed. However, in other circumstances, where knowledge rather than expression is being measured, it seems unnecessarily punitive to condemn answers where it has been used. We should take comfort from knowing that the exam system actively seeks to give as much credit to students as possible. I am sure that this has always been the case in the past and I do not see why this should be seen as pandering.

I fully agree with the various people who have suggested that exam pressure is a good thing and that the ability to deal with it is a valuable life skill that needs to be developed. I do not feel that allowing text-speak in exams in any way lessens or increases this stress.

Like I say, I have fully enjoyed this thread and reading the various views expressed. I of course accept and expect that there will be plenty who disagree with me. The important thing of course, as smitjo suggests, is to learn from each other. I would also suggest that we go out of our way to exhibit sweetness and light at all times. :)

Kelvin

[Jenny & Mark]

Good post, Kelvin.

Perhaps it shall be the post that officially ends this thread. :o :)

Mark.

[jo-and-jeff]

I would actually marvel at the skill of someone who could send text on two phones or whilst watching TV. This is multi-tasking to a whole new level.
I've been trying to recall where I read a story about this, and I finally remembered. I found the story very interesting and quite balanced. The part about multitasking efficiency is especially interesting.

The Multitasking Generation, by Claudia Wallis (TIME Magazine, 19 March 2006) (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1174696-9,00.html)