[Juniper]

I thought it would be a good attitude excercise to list out what we're giving up to move to NZ, then balance each item by stating something we're gaining!

Please list equal amounts of positive and negative things. They don't necessarily have to be related to each other, this is just a means to balance every con with a pro. I'll start!

- Barely ever see family anymore :wah
- Better place to start a family

- Have to leave our chinchilla (pet) behind :wah
- Better chance to buy lots of land for our dog/cats to run around

- Such a bummer to leave Santa Cruz, love this place
- Similar places to be found in NZ, and waaaay cheaper!

- Leave all our wonderful friends
- Easy to make friends in NZ

- Need to budget lots of $$ each year to visit home
- Whole new country to explore

- No redwoods in NZ
- Government more likely to preserve NZ environment

- No ozone over NZ
- Great water/air in NZ

- Guilt trip from family over moving
- Getting a foothold in NZ to sponser them in case US gets -really- bad

- Miss out on last few years of grandparent's lives :wah
- grab the best window of opportunity to build our own future, before life gets more complicated

- Wellington probably is chillier/rainier than Santa Cruz
- better economic trends

- have to build a whole new social foundation - need to find some cool weirdos :cool
- get away from the social/governmental pull of those freaky "red states," not to mention mr. bush! :uhoh

- suddenly ebay/online shopping will have bigger shipping costs
- probably a good thing to "simplify" and not overconsume

- less food variety - Mexican hard to come by! :wah will have to learn to make tortillas i guess....
- supposedly awesome sushi

- produce/foods more dependent on seasonal availability?
- old-fashioned specialization of food shops (butchers etc) offer high quality and service

[sarahw]

OK here goes (I've had a couple of glasses of wine so hope it makes sense!):

- All our lovely friends
- Most of them are already planning trips out to visit (some have already booked tickets!!! We can spend more time with them in a week than we'd spend with them in a year normally) and we're shocked by how many people are willing to make the trip over for our wedding!

- Miss out on seeing family often
- Make a great home somewhere that has a lot less terrorist risk and is like we experienced when we were growing up - i.e. safe (or as safe as places can be these days)!

- Our kids (when we have them) will miss some of their cousins in the UK
- Some of their cousin's will be in Australia as Ian's sister has just emigrated there and our kids will have so much more of a chance at sports etc. in NZ

- 2 Great jobs & 2 good salaries that most people would die for
- Better quality of life better work/relaxation balance ('specially since I won't be working :laugh ) Able to retire at an earlier age

- 2 v.nice new cars :wah
- less materialistic life - less of a focus on finances and what people have got because we will have spare time to go and enjoy ourselves which is far more important! :mrgreen:

- miss out on my brother's kids growing up
- will not miss out on having kids of my own! (job was too stressful - travelling abroad too much to even try for kids!)

- Football :wah
- Oh but we're getting season tickets to the Rugger - hee hee!

- Nice victorian house
- Oh but we're never here to enjoy it! Give me a weatherboard that's not watertight but is a family home anyday!!!

- Good prospects in our jobs
- Able to actually live our dreams rather than someone else's corporate dream

- The Indian food we sampled was tame to say the least (we may have been unlucky but the menu in NZ said that a Madras curry was served in a "gravy" sauce?! What???? - OK don't laugh but for Ian this was very nearly a deal breaker!
- I'm a fine cook & can cook up a very spicy meal so I'm going to have more time to spend in the kitchen and experiment! :yes

[Juniper]

thanks for playing sarah! you reminded me of a couple -

- probly have to leave our wonderful hybrid car (2004 prius) due to lack of mechanics, just guessing but sounds like it
- might get more walking done as wellington is sposed to be set up for it?

- lot of hassle to sell our house, get a new one in a higher equity growth area (that is to say, not rural...) and rent it (as a safety net)
- easier to buy/build our dream house in NZ, house in california will undoubtably go up in value a ton

- leave behind the very rich bellydance community around here
- good opportunity to stand out more in a new place, maybe teach

- not sure they even have spicey -groceries- in NZ, maybe depends on area...
- get to try out the oceania/maori tastes

[Diny]

This has got me thinking .... here goes:

- Leaving my elderly parents (Dad 80 - Mum 74).
+ They are very fit and looking forward to spending the UK winters in NZ.

- Selling our house which we've always loved.
+ House hunting for a new place - and a much bigger pad than we could afford here in Staffordshire.

- Taking the boys out of a very good school with only 64 pupils and small classes and finding out that their local school has 500 kids and class sizes of between 30 - 32.
+ ..... er ..... can't balance this one at the moment ... I'll get back to you.

- Having to sell my Zafira (boring car I know but I love it).
+ Looked on NZ car sales web sites and found a Holden Zafira.

- Far too much boring sport in NZ
+ Thousands of miles of land to explore while the nation sits by the telly to watch a game.

- Missing out on the everyday life of my very close, lovely family.
+ Appreciating every second with them and enjoying a couple of weeks of concentrated quality time when we visit each other.

- Arriving in a country where nobody knows my history - therefore no conversations about "do you remember the time we .......".
+ Maybe this will force me to shut up and listen to other people abit more.

(I am in the minority on this next one, will probably get heckled by all the Anglophobes but here goes anyway).

- I shall miss England. It's history, the architecture, the rural scenery, the wonderful eccentric sence of humour, the food and the telly etc. England has been really good to us, I shall be sad to leave the country which has enabled us to 'get on' as well as we have.
+ I shall enjoy the adventure of getting to grips with my new life in NZ and finding out all there is to know.

- I shall miss the National Health. It's gets a bad press but I guarantee you'll wish there was such a service in NZ.
+ More affordable private health care in NZ (So I'm told).

- Fresh cod and chips
+ Replaced by fresh snapper & chips

Ahh heck ... I could be here all night. This is a good thread - I like the rule that there has to be equal amounts of negatives and positives, eliminates the tendancy to put on the dreaded rose tinted specs (which really winds me up and gets me on my soap box :roll: ).

It looks like we're all pretty certain of our motives .... which can only be a good thing.

Diny

[Juniper]

great points! sounds like we're all going through the same kinds of things.

about the school point, you can balance it out with any pro you like - maybe more free time/relaxing lifestyle? whatever you're looking forward to! :yes

regarding the health one, i'll add something:

- may not be able to sponser father-in-law...were hoping we could take care of him later in life, but they might not let him in due to poor health/disability...
- will cost a lot less for our own health care, so if nothing else could send him more support money...and if he does get in he'll be well provided for!

[captainxmas]

Firstly, Sarahw - if your aiming for Wellington you'll be glad to know I've had one of the best curries ever there (and I come from Birmingham so that's saying something). It was a place on Cuba street on the same side as the Olive Cafe but further down, an old 50's style shop done out as a restuarant eclectic and cool. So no worries, eh? :nice1

okey dokey...

Neg = Not having Europe on your doorstep (although I am slowy falling out of love with it) for holidays :?
Pos = Going on holiday all around NZ, the Cook Islands, the Mouth Island... :P

Neg = Getting away from Tony the Cronie and his monkey faced puppetmaster :uhoh
Pos = Helen seems a pretty 'straight-up' lady :clap

Neg = Leaving behind family (the folks) and friends (ever decreasing list) :eek
Pos = Being closer to other family (Soph's dad and bro) and new friends :yes

Neg = Making said family and friends travel round the world to visit :?
Pos = We will definately see more of them! :yes

Neg = Less presents for Christmas :wah
Pos = Only sending smaller 'postable' pressies ;)

Neg = Having to sell or move it all to make the leap :eek
Pos = Being able to start again on a fresh page :nice1

Neg = Produce and shopping that we take for granted :?
Pos = The SIZE of the Off Licences! :cheers

Neg = Leaving behind the 'quality' and 'choice' of English TV :laugh
Pos = Look outside the window and get off your @rse mate! :yes

Neg = Missing the cold and dark wintery Christmas that we are heading into, I do like to wear a sweater at Christmas :?
Pos = Turkey barbie and sleep it off in the hammock, mmm :nice1

That'll do for now, the wine is bringing out the irony!

[chuchi]

Well,

Coming from the Philippines, I think we have a lot to gain in moving to NZ. Let me count the ways...

- We (well, right now, it's applicable only to my partner) will have a better paying job. Although the cost of living is high, we did a cost-benefit analysis and it turns out we will get to earn more in NZ (when converted to Philippine pesos) than in the Philippines

- A good place to raise a family. In NZ, there will be parks where the kids can run freely and breathe clean air.

- Good education for children. There are good schools in the Philippines but they are expensive!

- More family time! My BF and I can go biking and jogging even after work. As mentioned before, no pollution!


As for the sacrifices...

- Leaving our families and friends behind. :( But they told us they'd visit once we've settled down nicely. :nice1

- Having lived all my life in a tropical country, it's going to be COLD! :eek But what the heck! We can adjust!

These are just from the top of my head. I'll add on to the list once I remember something.

[jo b]

Firstly I'll help Diny with hers as mine is the same too

Neg: Kids leaving a tiny school with only 8 kids per class (daughters class is 8 and it has year 5 & 6 combined)
Pos: Learning about the big wide world and learning to establish themselves in a larger social group

Neg: leaving family and friends
Pos: They are all behind me and queueing up to visit + we already ahve friends there and will have friends from the forum there too :nice1

Neg:My Chinese takeaway every Sat night with the famly then curling up watching the X factor with my kids
Pos: loosing some weight and getting fitter :hopeso I can still cuddle up with my kids :nice1

Neg: Leaving very well paid jobs with good pensions, car, health, mobile laptop free phone calls and 32.5 days leave a year :wah
Pos: I won't be working for anyone except for myself so i can take as much leave as I want :laugh

Neg: leaving all the fancy easily affordable things like a cheap DVD player etc
Pos:Nobody cares what you have or haven't got in NZ so it doesn't matter


Neg:Being able to get cheap easy jet flights across Europe
Pos:I never really did much of that thing anyway (don't know why it's on my list)

Neg:England and its heritage (I agree Diny). I spend lots of my spare time taking the kids to museums etc.
Pos: Hey I'll be creating NZ heritage :cool

Neg: Being able to go and watch the best pop/rock group and singers almost anytime
Pos: Being too busy enjoying the outdoor lifestyle to care who is who in what band

Neg:I will miss Wigan and it's people there are a friendly bunch
Pos: There are equally great towns and friendly people in NZ (without loads of gangs of asylum seekers threatening the locals

Neg: the Northern Soul scene :wah
Pos: I'll create one :clap :cool

Neg: Missing my niece grow up and my Sister (her Mum)
Pos: Convince them to emigrate when they visit :hopeso

Neg: The Northern Humour, it's like nothing on earth
Pos: I'll ring Linda, Ali, Diny, B-I-L, Gareth, Joanne, Julia, Paul, Babette & Andy, Kim and Wife, Rimbo when I want some Banter (also any other forum members who want to be an Northern brit Adoptee)
God we could make a it a mini North of England :laugh

Neg:I'll miss a cold Christmas
Pos: At least I won't suffer with sad it goes dark here at 2pm in fact I don't think the sun comes out in winter :eek

Neg: my lovely home
Pos having an even lovelier home with a bit of land to invest in

That's all for now folks, great thread I loved doing this it cleanses the soul

Jo

[Danpoll]

Lets have a go at this, positives then negs

Barely ever see my family
Barely ever see my family

Becoming a long distance student
making my final dissertation 10x more difficult

losing my british accent
gaining a kiwi one

selling my house
and my central heating

being hours away from UK
being 3 hrs from Oz

having money for a days work
having poor money for a weeks work

better health care
higher rate of tax

Taking my family to a new country
bringing my wife

christmas on the beach
inlaws will be there

adding to the family
no one seeing them from year to year

an easier pace of life
technology way behind

not living in a society plagued by scare tactics of non existant terror threats
not having a clown as a leader


I am sure there are many others but I cant think of any right now.

Dan

cant think of any more I am sure I will

[sarahw]

Captainxmas - you've made my day I'm so happy you've found a good Indian restaurant in Wellington!!! :nice1

We'll certainly be going there in the first week!!!! :mrgreen: (First night if Ian has his way!)

Oh and the TV - good point!

[Wiggles]

Classic Danpoll :laugh

Ours will be

- close proximity to Europe
+ close proximity to Oz & pacific islands & regions of NZ

- Sky TV (not addicted but when you relax there is always something on)
+ not watching TV

- central heating
+ short winters

- leaving friends behind
+ having family close (or is that a neg :mrgreen: )

- leaving a 'small' home we've loved
+ get a bigger house & garden we'll love

- the history of the UK with it's stunning old buildings & villages
+ the scenery & vastness of the country

reasons for leaving the UK include

- crowds and constant traffic (can take upwards of 45mins to go 4 miles in peak hour)

- DH's job, it's long hours & he is constantly tired and although he's paid extremely well, have started to think it's not worth it

- the long, cold, dark winter months

- crap summers

Having said all that, although I am not English, I will miss this it a lot. I am excited about NZ though and can't wait to relocate there, as we do miss the family.

[Diny]

Hey wiggles - don't get too excited about the short winters.

My in-laws were just about sick to the back teeth with this last winter, It went on and on and on. They said it wouldn't have been so bad if the summer hadn't been so lousy. They live in the Manawatu.

Diny

[wayne]

Ahh the popular misconception of NZ weather if you live in the south east part of the UK (as I do) you will probably have a warmer drier summer than say Auckland Last time I lived in NZ we moved to Palmeston North (manuwatu area) and it just seemed to rain or be windy constantly,Auckland has heaps of rain but the plus is it can rain all night up to 10am and them almost instantly change to fierce sunshine that has the roads steaming,
The best thing about NZ is on the whole winters arent as cold for as long ,you will get snow and frost down south but in Auckland where my son lives now he said that he has only had to scrape the car windows on a few occasions :P

[lindajax]

Hi All,
I can't really bring myself to post pro's and cons.

being so near to going I think I am sort of in a limbo state with what I feel would be good there and sacrifices etc.

I think I may update on this post when I'm there because what I feel is a sacrifice now may feel fine once I'm there - I hope you all get what I mean I am being a bit vague really- Head up my a*** at the mo!

linda xx

[leslie]

there are so many things... where to start?

wont miss the pop-up urinals in the west end (whose idea was that???)

[ruthyroo]

Anyone actually in NZ going to venture onto this shiny thread with a big mean spoiler post??

Only joking, the pros and cons will all work themselves out in the end when you get here :cool

[Juniper]

indeed yes, would be great to hear from people who have made it over and are in the midst of settling into NZ life!

i'd like to retract my "con" about missing certain groceries, as i got a pm from a fellow californian assuring me that wellington is very well stocked! they even have tortillas, yay! how about thai curry paste and peanut butter? :P

hm, a couple more thoughts:

- probably don't get a lot of our favorite performers coming thru on tour...
+ compact, diverse islands have many exploring options

- cds and hardcover books outrageously expensive
+ avocados cheap, right? guacamole every day!

- probably have to wear sunscreen every day
+ no such thing as a long commute

- heard the coffee shop pastries are awful (tough little bars and pink buns?)
+ bound to be some nifty specialty bakeries in welly

[Diny]

Juniper ..... good posting.

Don't worry - peanut butter is available!

If you think CD's and hardcover books are expensive in NZ - you should try buying them in the UK .... you need a 2nd mortgage. It all depends how much they cost where you live, but PB and I always buy loads of them when we're in NZ 'cos they are so cheap !!

True - plenty of pink buns in the coffee shops and (IMO) their cakes and pastries all seem abit dry and woody. However - I am more than willing to be proved wrong on this subject and if it means I'll have to tour the coffee shops of NZ in my quest to find the perfect pastry - then so be it !!!

Avocados are cheap - and plentiful too. I'm right up there with you regards the guacamole :nice1

Sunscreen? Can't comment. Although I've experienced 'nice' weather in NZ I'm convinced that there's a huge amount of 'spin' regarding the climate. Can't remember who it was but a few days ago somebody commented on the "great NZ weather misconception".... again - I'm looking forward to being proved wrong.

Diny

[leslie]

i love the story of the first landed europeans in america. surrounded by food, veg, nuts, fish, animals, lobster etc, they were starving from malnutrition eating what was left of their moldy hardtack biscuits. the first settlers were hat-makers, shoe makers etc - not a farmer in sight!!! eventually, when the last were barely alive the indians showed them how to adjust their thinking (this is marked as 'thanksgiving'). to me this is the birth of the usa - until that moment it was all same euro sh** different place.
i don't want/expect the same from nz... that said we'll patronise any smartie who sets up a good bakery.

[Juniper]

eventually, when the last were barely alive the indians showed them how to adjust their thinking (this is marked as 'thanksgiving')..

oo that reminds me...

- no thanksgiving, i'll bet, and they don't seem to big on halloween? :(
+ probably some other unique holidays to discover!

anyone know which cool holidays they celebrate in NZ? (easter in fall and xmas in summer will surely be weird tho...)

[Juniper]

how weird, the moment i ask the question and move on to my next website, i find the answer without meaning to! (birthdayalarm.com has a nifty holiday reminder feature: http://www.birthdayalarm.com/Holiday.jsp?Ran=903936962)

New Year's Day Jan 01 2004
Day after New Year's Day Jan 02 2004
Waitangi Day Feb 06 2004
Valentines Day Feb 14 2004
Good Friday Apr 09 2004
Easter Sunday Apr 11 2004
Easter Monday Apr 12 2004
Anzac Day Apr 25 2004
Mother's Day May 09 2004
Queen's Birthday Jun 07 2004
Father's Day Sep 05 2004
Labour Day Oct 25 2004
Christmas Day Dec 25 2004
Boxing Day Dec 26 2004

ok, so what are these ones?
Waitangi Day
Anzac Day
Queen's Birthday (queen of england i guess? is there still that much of a tie to england?)

are there any other festivals that don't merit a day off?

(side note - i notice the US has way more holidays, some of which i haven't even heard of?? clearly "hallmark" days....ew...plus the all-new "patriot's day" ... :? )

[Timbo]

Juniper. All a bit "off topic" really, but here goes anyway.

Waitangi Day celebrates the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi in 1840. This treaty was between the 50 Maori chiefs and the British sovereign. This treaty remains a bone of contention to this day.

Anzac day commemorates the involvement of Australian and New Zealand soldiers during the world wars.

Queens B/day...yes, Lizzy`s birthday as you thought.

[Juniper]

thanks :-) i hope they are as fun as st. patty's and april fools...i love really silly holidays :angel ok maybe not april fools so much since i am so gullible...

[Danpoll]

Regards to Anzac

It stands for Australian and New Zealand Army Corps

who fought as one unit during WWI, a symbol of the close ties with Australia. or Mother englands grown up british daughters.
New Zealand, Cameron W,J 1964 Pentice Hall Inc,N,J.

end of lecture



Dan

[Gran]

Er -by the way you dont get a day off for Valentines, Mothers day, or Fathers day !!!
Gran

[Diny]

Hey Juniper

Made me laugh when you asked what Waitangi Day and Anzac day were all about .......... they only commemorate what are probably the 2 major historic events since the Europeans settled in NZ :laugh Keep up the research :nice1

Diny

[Jodie]

Right - we've been in Welly for 3 months now (in NZ for 4 months), so thought I'd share our positives and negatives...

(BTW - in Courtenay Place theres about 20 different chinese/thai/indian restaurants so I'm sure you'll be fine with that. And yes, they do stock Thai Green Curry paste in the supermarkets!)

Anyway, here goes....

- Leaving behind family and friends
+ Hardly saw family anyway as we lived away from them for the last 5 years, and they have all booked to come out - Daz's Dad has just spent time with us and we did far more with him here than we would have done in the odd weekend now and again with them in the UK.

- Less regular contact with family/friends
+ We have actiually made more effort to email/phone people back in the UK than when we were there, and with the webcam our families can still 'see' us - more than when we were in the UK

- Leaving everything we owned/knew in the UK and coming out here to nothing
+ Excellent fun looking round for a rental, exploring new places, finding which city/town we want to live in, buying new furniture, making new friends, basically starting again which is great! Can't wait to start looking for a place to buy

- Daz leaving his job and me closing my web business which I'd just set up, and coming out here to nothing
+ I've landed a much better job than I could have got in the UK, and Daz is contracting so is earning more than in the UK too

- No more Europe/Med holidays (not sure if thats much of a negative but hey!)
+ South Island, North Island, Australia, Cook Islands, Fiji, Rarotonga, Samoa, Tonga etc on the doorstep - I know which I'd prefer!

- Leaving the central heating behind
+ Lovely wood burners to heat the house and keep things toasty. Plus snuggling up together to keep warm! :angel ;)

- Leaving Bournemouth and Poole - a place which we both loved for the 5 years we'd lived there through uni and after graduating.
+ Living in Wellington with the fantastic harbour, rugged coastline, beaches, hills, with the Kapiti Coast, Wairarapa and South Island on the doorstep

- Christmas away from the family
+ Again, with the webcam we'll still 'see' them xmas day. Plus we'll be sat in the sun with a bbq and it's been great fun finding kiwi-related pressies for them all!

- Severity of the sun - need to wear suncream most of the time (well, during the summer anyway)
+ It feels like you're on holiday every morning when you wake up and slap on the factor - it really sets you up for the day and gives you that holiday feeling

- Leaving behind the fave soaps/dramas of British TV (again, not much of a sacrifice really, eh!)
+ Most of the soaps (ie, Eastenders, Corrie, The Bill etc) are on here just about 6 months behind, so if you DO need your fix, you'll get it. But theres so much more to do than sit and watch TV anyway, especially in the summer!!

- Juniper's heard that the coffe shops are awful
+ Welly is the cafe capital of the world (well, apparantly theres more cafes per head here than in New York), and every one I've been into has been pretty good so far - especially the Chocolate Fish Cafe - my fave!

- Long commute into work in the UK
+ Even when it's busy, it still only takes 30 mins MAX to get in from Johnsonville - normal run is 20 mins in rush hour

- Soaring house prices in the UK
+ For the price we sold our 2 bed flat for in Poole, we can buy a 3 bed house here in Welly in a nice area!

- Freezing winters in the UK
+ Much milder winters here (well, our first one here was anyway!) and much more crisp sunny days. (Although a fair share of windy days too - but this is Welly after all!)

That's all I can think of for a min - to be honest, I've found it hard to find enough sacrifices - there's far more pluses for us anyway - and we're here living it so it's not a case of rose-tinted specs - after all, we've been in NZ 4 months now so I'm sure those specs would have faded by now!

Jod
:cool

[Jodie]

Just realised how long my last post was - sorry!! :eek

:cool

[Juniper]

- Juniper's heard that the coffe shops are awful
+ Welly is the cafe capital of the world (well, apparantly theres more cafes per head here than in New York), and every one I've been into has been pretty good so far - especially the Chocolate Fish Cafe - my fave!


nah, i heard the coffees good, pastries bad!
- for me, pastries are half the experience...
+ but definitely looking forward to some tasty cappucinos :nice1 chocolate fish, you say? :yes

anyway, keep up the long posts!! esp. regarding welly, since that's the city i'm most interested in... :cool

[leslie]

i was hoping they didn't have any british soap that didn't come from fortnum and mason. what price progress???

[Caven]

Linda,

Sounds bad but I'm glad I read that...it hit me that we're leaving next month. Next month. Next month. In a blink it will be next week. I can't put my finger on it, but sometimes I feel really dislocated, like it's not me doing this, but knowing it's me that'll turn up in NZ, does that make sense?

Your response to this thread sums me up too, I constantly try to work out the pros and cons, as I did right at the beginning, but now I'm so close to leaving, the nature of them seems to have changed. I keep saying to myself a kind of mantra: mountains, skiing, real wilderness, space, adventure, career for me and my wife but can't help feeling I'm missing something. It could be nothing I suppose, maybe something we all feel in life from time to time. One thing I'm starting to feel though is that there are real consequences for making this move. Of course, I've always known that, but until recently, never felt it. Standing in the stunning Highlands knowing you're not coming back, or worse still the Lakes, my own patch where I am really at home on the hills, again, knowing you're probably not going to see them again. Just one example of many emotions recently.

On the plus side, as I spied askance at my five year old daughter when the nice woman on the telly told her that these giant grasshoppers live soley, and all over, New Zealand she said "Cool! Can I have a Weta, Dad?"

"Ask your Mum" :laugh

[Soon2baKiwi]

I've just read the whole thread (bad, bad Norah. Supposed to be working).

Ok, here's mine.

- leaving 23 yr old son behind
+ he's going to come over when he's got some work experience

- Leaving family & friends
+ hardly ever see family anyway and inlaws are great. Will make new friends and family is already making plans to visit and my best friend definitely will.

- old buildings and history
+ making new history

I can't think of anything else negative. :nice1