[Natalieb]

Hiya Everyone,

I just wanted to ask you all a question about central heating. Im sat in my cosy house in the UK, its absolutely freezing outside and couldnt imagine not having central heating. The whole country have had snow today, Manchester has had a few flakes, absolutely rubbish my kids are gutted.

Is it very rare in NZ to have central heating, are there firms out there that can put in in for me when I arrive. I imagine its really expensive too or everyone would have it. Personally I would be happy to buy a house slightly cheaper to enable me to afford it - no point having a mansion and blue lips (this colour :confused: ), Id go for the warm terrace everytime (this colour :mad:).

Any thoughts on this would be useful,

Thanks Natalie

[Mal]

Here in Christchurch I think central heating is pretty rare. Newer houses are beginning to use it, but if your house is more than a few years old it is unlikely. The usual options in older homes are either a wood burner in the living room or a heat pump (an aircon unit). In either case, they don't really do that much to disperse heat evenly around the house, although a heat pump will probably be better in this respect, particularly if it is well positioned.

Central heating is available, but it's not that common yet. What kind of implication this has on your house will depend where you intend to settle. Theres a pretty dramatic difference between Auckland and Invercargill!

[marcia]

Not one of the houses we have looked at have had central heating - and we have looked at a lot believe me I'm sick to the back teeth of house hunting :(

Only one very new one had a really good system don't know what it was called but the heat was controlled around the house via a gizmo in the kitchen - just set the temp and it was done - also had under floor heating - was a nice house too - just built next door to a camp site :no

The other thing you will have to get used to is no instant hot water - they all have hot water tanks and we have found in our rental we frequentally end up with cold showers if we don't leave a gap of a couple of hours between!! There is a system here for the 'instant' hot water - its called infinity hot water but again very few houses have it!

Still its just a couple of things you have to get used to be able to live the lifestyle we have chosen!:yes

[Caroline and Dave]

Hi Natalie,
Have a look at this site. We are having these people fit central heating into our new house,but I am not sure how much as it is part of the package. I do believe they cover all areas.www.abergas.co.nz

Dave and Caroline

[colindp]

There's no Central Heating in Dunedin that I am aware of and everybody sniggers when I mention it....We breed em tough down here is all they say...

Dunedin also holds an annual competition in winter to find the towns coldest house!!!!

[Trigirl]

The uk type of central heating with radiators in each room is unheard of over here. Our new place has a “brivis” ducted central heating system (http://www.brivis.com.au/web/brivisweb.nsf/668d4ee488131f104a2564d5002c772f/8025f2c86216b7bc4a25688f001f4d61?OpenDocument) and infinity hot water so they are possible to find – although where you are in the country will determine how popular they are. You can get them fitted after you buy.

[katandbob]

I have started to look into this - and it is extremely expensive to install, on NZ wages - ok if you have (GBP) - at work and no pound sign! ;)
I have booked for a heating consultation - to replace existing multifuel burner - and they talked about ducting to take excess hot air from living area with multifuel burner in it to cold areas of house - I wish I could afford radiators - but they said it would not be possible to run radiators from a woodburner:(

oh and double glazing - :( too!

kat

PS Marcia - found any houses you like yet???? we will have to chat!:yes

[gil]

The other thing you will have to get used to is no instant hot water - they all have hot water tanks and we have found in our rental we frequentally end up with cold showers if we don't leave a gap of a couple of hours between!!

Wasn't aware that this was not the norm, we have hot water on tap! and no wating for it to heat up again...

Gil

[stu70]

Man that does suck. We could not survive without central heating and airconditioning. Also no matter how remote you go, hot water (24X7) is the norm here in Canada. Hmmm.. something we assume would be everywhere in "developed" world.

[dean1968]

Even if you have the most modern central heating system with all the latest gizmos (bell and whistles) you awould still be better off spending some extra money insulating the house. Otherwise you can kiss your heating costs goodbye as it flies out the window.

The minimum build standard for insulating new homes is still substandard
http://www.pinkbatts.co.nz/warm_solutions.asp and govt is suppose to be regulating and increasing it.

Just double glazing ther windows will save you some money in the long run.

[britchik]

Hiya Natalie

There is a company in Kaitoke (very close to Wanganui ) called Savona that can install Central heating.
The guys who own the company are friends of a friend of Bruces ! I met him briefly a couple of years ago and they are an English family who realised there was a gap in the market for proper heating (like us brits are used to !) so they set it up.
Heres their website : www.savona.co.nz
I've not actually looked at the website myself but hopefully it will be what your after :)

Maybe just me but was actually jealous seeing the snow on the news !!

[zardell]

The other thing you will have to get used to is no instant hot water - they all have hot water tanks and we have found in our rental we frequentally end up with cold showers if we don't leave a gap of a couple of hours between!!


Marcia, have you looked to see what temperature your hot water tank is set at ?? Maybe you need to turn it up. I think 65 ish is the norm..........just a thought.

Julie

xx

[Diny]

Central heating ???????? Ha - don't make me laugh.

When ever I mention it I get 'balked' at.

One thing that really irritates/amuses me (depending on time of month) ... when I mention the cold houses the amount of people who bleat ...'but you should be use to the cold coming from England"

Err ... derrrrr ... try explaining to them that houses in the UK are actually warm !!!!

[gil]

Marcia, have you looked to see what temperature your hot water tank is set at ?? Maybe you need to turn it up. I think 65 ish is the norm..........just a thought.

Julie

xx

Ours is set at 48 and seems fine! Might need truning up in the winter tho...

Gil

[britchik]

One thing that really irritates/amuses me (depending on time of month) ... when I mention the cold houses the amount of people who bleat ...'but you should be use to the cold coming from England"

Err ... derrrrr ... try explaining to them that houses in the UK are actually warm !!!!
[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with you there Diny !
My mum and I were only talking about that today, then she reminded me how she spent the majority of last Winter wearing a coat ......INSIDE the house !!

[oldtimbo]

We are still sitting on the fence with regard to installing any form of heating in our place. We already have infinity hot water system, and may look at backing that up with solar in the future.
However, having spent what was regarded as one of the coldest winters for decades, living in our plaster over brick/ long run metal roof/North facing house, we are almost convinced that heating would be of no real benefit.
I guess it has a fair bit to do with location though. Here on the Coromandel, I believe we had 4 frosts last winter, and they were gone by 9am.
An additional consideration would be that by installing a decent heatpump set-up, we would have some air conditioning as well as warming, so usefull Summer and Winter.

[Marie P]

In our newly built house we have an Renai infinity GAS water heater ...so heats up water immediately.

We also have a Gas wall heater [which is vented to the outside] in the lounge ,we were planning on having two but we were told that one should heat the house comfortably.[It was $1800].

No need for it at the moment ,will let you know how it is in the Wintertime.

Marie x

[zardell]

Ours is set at 48 and seems fine! Might need truning up in the winter tho...

Gil



Ooh thats good to know - we'll turn ours down then.:nice1

Thanks Gil.

Julie

xx

[dean1968]

It is recommended to keep the minimum temperature of 55°C for hot water.
Legionnaires disease. Legionella pneumophila is the most common cause of the illness connected with hot water systems. It will not grow in water over 60 degrees centigrade.

[zardell]

It is recommended to keep the minimum temperature of 55°C for hot water.
Legionnaires disease. Legionella pneumophila is the most common cause of the illness connected with hot water systems. It will not grow in water over 60 degrees centigrade.



Mmmm...I think we'll leave it turned up then !!

Cheers Dean,

Julie

xx

[incredible hulse]

Central heating ???????? Ha - don't make me laugh.

When ever I mention it I get 'balked' at.

One thing that really irritates/amuses me (depending on time of month) ... when I mention the cold houses the amount of people who bleat ...'but you should be use to the cold coming from England"

Err ... derrrrr ... try explaining to them that houses in the UK are actually warm !!!!
I had a Kiwi asking me today if I could handle the weather (They've had a glorious week in Welly) as I wouldn't be used to it coming from England. Not sure if they've convinced themselves they are part of Oz but they do like to dream about the weather here also ... On the subject of Gas CH, we had the ducted system (ceiling vents) put in to 2/3rds of our house and it cost us 6800 dollars !

[Belmont Babes]

What a shame NZ is so behind with the central heating business. We have only just started with the emigration process and I have to be honest as I'm such a "Nesh Brit" it does worry me. My OH however is happy in a T shirt all year round so he won't mind. Plenty of hot water bottles and wooly socks then.

[wiki]

Before I came to the UK I had no clue what central heating was and would have scoffed at the idea of having the whole house warm - but after nine years here I'm hooked sadly. I've never once used an electric blanket in the UK, but I think it will be the first thing we buy in NZ (apart from a new mattress) :laugh

My brother moved back to Soutland a couple of years ago with his family after 17 years in Perth (the Australian version) and he's installing radiators in his house himself. As far as I know, they will be fired off a wood-burner... the same sort of system as the common wet-backs which are used to heat water, but instead of just going into the hotwater tank, the water will be sent around the radiators.

He's not a builder by training, but is pretty handy and has helped a friend to install radiators in a couple of places.

Once we find a place we want to stay in for the next 20 years (not really worth the investment for something you'll be selling in two years!) I'm getting him to install it for us :)

[Carol]

On the subject of Gas CH, we had the ducted system (ceiling vents) put in to 2/3rds of our house and it cost us 6800 dollars !


This was already installed in the house we are currently living in when we bought it.
And is one of the main reasons for us staying here - despite the fact it is too small for us.
We are seriously thinking of extending rather than moving to save the hassle of installing CH into a differetn house.

Someone I worked with was complaining last winter about going to the loo in her house because the toilet seat was SO cold.

ummmm........... this IS a developed country isn't it!
They can mock all they like.:confused:
I love my ducted air and I'm keeping it!
:nice1

[Debbie P.]

This may come as a shock, but I'm in the UK and I DON'T have central heating!

Don't really need it - small terraced house in one of the mildest parts of the country. We just have a couple of heaters that we plug in... and yes, we wear jumpers inside, although haven't had to resort to coats yet!

I agree that good insulation is more important.

[Carol]

This may come as a shock, but I'm in the UK and I DON'T have central heating!

.


You must have kiwi ancesters then....

;)

[wiki]

[QUOTE=Debbie P.;113753]This may come as a shock, but I'm in the UK and I DON'T have central heating!
QUOTE]

We spent last week up at a cottage in Robin Hood's Bay (near Whitby) and it only has a couple of nightstore heaters in the main rooms (it only has four rooms so not really an issue) ... normally we stay in summer and the owners rent it out pretty steadily so we got a huge shock being the first ones in it that year and finding the heating wasn't it. It was pretty cold - which I actually didn't mind (my NZ-ness coming out I think) but OH was shivering and suffering.

I got a very "I'm not impressed look" when I casually mentioned most NZ houses don't have cent heating!

And worst - we're heading to Southland :exit

[Debbie P.]

You must have kiwi ancesters then....

;)

:laugh and to think the Scots would call me a 'southern softie'!

My hubby grew up with any heating at all apart from a wood burner in the lounge. He claims he used to get ice inside the bedroom window - now that's going a bit too far :eek:

[Debbie P.]

Wiki, I have to know:

I have pineapple lumps to keep me calm

What are pineapple lumps?!

[Moorf]

Diesel central heating systems seem quite popular down here, I've heard of a reputable installer in Kaiapoi but I can't remember the details... sorry...

[wiki]

Wiki, I have to know:

I have pineapple lumps to keep me calm

What are pineapple lumps?!

http://www.homesick-kiwi.com/productpage.php?id=51

They're a chocolate covered sweet with a chewy, almost nougat-like pineaple filling.

There's a shop in the arcade behind NZ House called Kiwifruits which has lollies and chips and even tins of Watties spaghetti to buy at vastly inflated prices.

I also got Snifters (hard but chewy mint, surrounded by chocolate and covered in thin mint shell) and Squiggle Tops (chocolate biscuits with hokey-pokey chunks in them) that now seem to be called just Squiggles... but the signature was only allowed to be 200 characters long lol.

The shop had run out of both Minties and Jet Planes otherwise I would have come back with even more bursting bags!

** disclaimer: none of these sweets or biscuits are of any use in keeping your house warm, but they will help you to obtain your own personal roly-poly insulation :laugh

[Debbie P.]

[QUOTE=wiki;** disclaimer: none of these sweets or biscuits are of any use in keeping your house warm, but they will help you to obtain your own personal roly-poly insulation :laugh[/QUOTE]

:laugh :laugh Thanks :nice1

[Carol]

Isn't it funny?
All of that stuff I could go and get now from the supermarket but cant stand any of it.

Now McVities biscuits......or Maxwell House coffee......or proper Heinz Tomato Soup.......or Quality Street.......or even GRAVY GRANULES!
I'm there.

But pineapple lumps....yuk.
:exit ;)

[Carol]

Diesel central heating systems seem quite popular down here, I've heard of a reputable installer in Kaiapoi but I can't remember the details... sorry...



So when it starts up does it go Vrrroooom rather than woosh?
:laugh

[clg]

CH is not that common but not that rare either at least by us. We live in a good suburb but quite a few of our friends around here (kiwis, poms, ozzies) have at least a heatpump and several have CH. I think everyone else has a woodburner or gas fire. We added it to our house (diesel fueled boiler) and all along planned to retrofit whatever we bought so it was warm. Just take into account that you may need to do some work on whatever house you buy and you will be fine. Our installation was about a worst case scenario and cost about 16k. We spent about 2500 on heat last year using the heat quite a bit as my wife is home with a young child. Our house is large with insulation in the walls but with vaulted ceilings and no insulation there except for about 2 inches of wood. This was a cold winter and with high diesel prices and we used the heat even on days when the house was like 16 in the mornings to heat the house up early on. We use it a lot and I feel the money is well spent.

Older kiwis tend to have the tough it out attitude but that does not seem to resonate so well with the <40 set particularly those who have lived overseas.

It makes a big difference getting up in a warm house and coming home to a warm house. While some people might scoff at our installation price the yearly cost is not that bad at all (I know people paying near that for space heaters and firewood heating only part of their houses). As to the install price, it will add to the value of the house if we decide to sell or rent at some point.

If CH is important to you build it into your budgeting estimates!

[wiki]

Isn't it funny?
All of that stuff I could go and get now from the supermarket but cant stand any of it.

Now McVities biscuits......or Maxwell House coffee......or proper Heinz Tomato Soup.......or Quality Street.......or even GRAVY GRANULES!
I'm there.

But pineapple lumps....yuk.
:exit ;)

I'll do swapsies with you lol

I reckon it's just a case of always wanting what you can't readily have. :wah

[Super_BQ]

from dean1968

Even if you have the most modern central heating system with all the latest gizmos (bell and whistles) you awould still be better off spending some extra money insulating the house. Otherwise you can kiss your heating costs goodbye as it flies out the window.

I totally agree. The problem is in NZ people automatically equate a bigger house with more bedrooms is better than (and fetches for more $) than a house that is highly insulated with fewer bedrooms but both cost the same to build.

I'm afraid you simply can't buy an existing home and throw another $5000 to install central heating. That would only make an inferior house that consumes far more electricity than to just simply heat 1 room at a time with a plug in heater.

I'm sure stu70 can vouche for me on this. For the past 10 years since i've been in NZ, i've not seen 1 house constructed with the same central heating designs used in Canada. I don't want to do a big brag but i'd like to share some interesting points. With gas central heating we get 3 key features:

1) Ducting: From the gas furnace, hot air is blown via ducts through the floor boards that lead to each room in the house. Cooler air that needs to be heated comes from the registers in the hallways or at lower floors, which leads through to the furnace.

2) Filtration: The air in the house is constantly being circulated. Just before the cool air goes through the heat exchanger, the main duct has a filter that you replace regularly. The biggest benefit is the house doesn't accumulate fine dust (that your vacuum misses) on furnitures and tables (don't have to dust as often).

3) Air Exchange: Not only the air is heated, but also the central gas furnace has the job of combining fresh outside air with the stale inside air. Who would want to open their windows when is it's so cold outside?

Current available methods for central heating in NZ present problems. Underfloor heating can be unhygenic as the warm carpet floors creates a good breeding ground for mold and bacteria (ie. from food droppings, etc.). In-wall heaters and heat pumps can't produce the required heat evenly throughout the house. Most heat-pumps are in the ceiling, which works great for cold air conditioning, but lacks the real hot air during the coldest winters.

Actually the housing building concepts are different between NZ and in N. America. In NZ many focus on which way the house faces to the north so they can get that maximum amount of sun light; so they can also determine which walls are cold and damp and not. While in Canada, the efficiency and comfort of the house is dependant on how air tight the house is built and 2 x 6 stud construction so enough high R value insulation can be stuffed in the walls. Remember, high R value is a win win situation. The heat is contained in the house during the cold winters and the cold is contained in the house during the hot summers.

It still amazes me the amount of aluminium framed windows that go into new homes today in NZ. Remember, aluminium is a conductor so heat will easily transfer from inside the house to the outside. While materials like PVC and wood are considered to be insulative. Windows built out of these materials with a thermal break are far superior to any metal framed window (regardless of how many glass panes).

BQ

[stu70]

On this topic (while we are at it), whats with the lack of mesh/netting in NZ homes (windows/patio doors). I have seen a ton of properties on various websites but none with these things. How the hell do you keep bugs/flies out?Is it a "cultural" thing?
Lack of R2000 compliant construction just blows me away. I understand NZ does not have extreme weather like us in Canada but still to not build new homes with these facilities is rather strange. I Wonder if someone has looked into starting a company building /selling properties that are on par with our codes here in the Great White North. I am sure the immigrant folks would feel comfortable in familiar surroundings and even the locals will gladly invest in homes with great resale value. Regards

[dean1968]

It still amazes me the amount of aluminium framed windows that go into new homes today in NZ. Remember, aluminium is a conductor so heat will easily transfer from inside the house to the outside.

Yes you are correct with aluminium framed windows. You wake up on a cold morning and it doesn't matter how warm the house is on the inside there is condensation / moisture on the aluminium frames

[Brijan]

It is recommended to keep the minimum temperature of 55°C for hot water.
Legionnaires disease. Legionella pneumophila is the most common cause of the illness connected with hot water systems. It will not grow in water over 60 degrees centigrade.

if you store hot water ie a cylinder then the water should be over 60 degrees centigrade, the Rinnai infinity is a mains pressure unit that heats water as its used so can safely supply water at temps from 37-55 degrees if a controller is fitted, if it has no controller then it will supply water at 55 degrees as a default temp unless adjusted internaly by a Rinnai Technician.

In wellington there are over 10,000 Brivis ducted gas central heating systems in houses, these unit have been produced since the very early 1990's. I have a Brivis system in my house and while it is not as good as the radiator system i was used to in the uk it performs really well. :yes
I also have the Rinnai infinity hot water unit as i got fed up having the "warm" shower every morning after the kids.:(

Brian

[Singel]

Double glazing is now available in NI and SI :clap
http://www.metroglasstech.co.nz/054.aspx
:raebanana

[veronica]

re double glazing.... its the same as with insulation, nzers don't want to pay the extra for it.

the other type of central heating thats about is the same as the UK with radiators feed by a central boiler. its not common but it is available.

I agree that NZ doesn't get as extreme a temp as Canada but we do have alpine regions here and it amazes me that the building regs in these places are the same as in Auckland. there seems to be one blanket rule (based on the Auckland climate) for the whole country.

[stu70]

re double glazing.... its the same as with insulation, nzers don't want to pay the extra for it.

the other type of central heating thats about is the same as the UK with radiators feed by a central boiler. its not common but it is available.

I agree that NZ doesn't get as extreme a temp as Canada but we do have alpine regions here and it amazes me that the building regs in these places are the same as in Auckland. there seems to be one blanket rule (based on the Auckland climate) for the whole country.

It could also be that since not a lot of people have traditionally opted for this type of heating, there aren't many companies serving that need, hence the high prices associated with the installation. Hope that changes with time. I wonder if people with Asthma have frequent flareups due to cold and damp dwellings. Suffering that we can not simply put a price tag on. Cheers

[Belmont Babes]

How right you are Dean1968. Does anyone know why there is a lack of central heating? Is it that the gas supply isn't countrywide? I have to admit it worries me a little - especially as I am sat with hot water bottle on my lap AND central heating ON!

[DB]

Central Heating (or more accurately - the lack of) is a big problem in NZ, to those of us who are far too used to it

NZ houses are poorly insulated, standard glazed. Most of the country does not have piped gas. NZ natural gas is in short supply as well. Diesel and LPG fairly expensive (and will become more so). Wood pellets another option but not as convenient as gas coming out of a pipe from the North Sea.

In short, you need to build from scratch, and buiild it the European or Canadian way. We have friends who are just about to start construction of their architect designed house which is all about insulation and holding on to the sun's energy, and so their annual heating bills should be very small indeed, with a warm and cosy house

[dean1968]

I believe 40% of New Zealand's electricity is generated by using natural gas. The basic laws of supply and demand prevailed and NZ was spoilt by cheap natural gas (30 years) that held down prices such as hydroelectric, geothermal, wind turbines etc. There was no incentive for gas companies to even explore and develop new fields. Only recently, has prices for natural gas risen enough with the depletion of the Maui field, the gas field will not be viable for commercial supply from 2007. 2-3 years earlier than expected has it now become cheaper using geothermal as a way of making electricity than using gas. Again it was not worthwhile for a hydro comapny to develop and build a new dam. Everything was held back and kept down by cheap gas. Why bother investing in solar or developing alternatives? Someone mentioned here in this forum that gas is cheaper here in NZ than in Europe. Our own electricity companies have said it is not viable to develop other alternatives like biodegradable forms of energy. A NZ company is selling the product in Europe where electricity is more expensive. They couldn't sell this product here in New Zealand. The reason electricity is too cheap here in NZ.

Getting back to central heating if you have abundent cheap forms of energy
to heat your home then people waste it or don't appreciate it. If you look at the mindset, people will only change their ways when prices bite and begin to hurt that includes saving energy by insulating your home.

[dean1968]

I want to add that using electricity for central heating could be a whole lot cheaper in NZ if a particular company decided to close down business.

Comalco is the largest consumer of electricity in New Zealand and consumes around 15-16% of total national demand. The press I‘ve read is that Meridian who is supplying the electricity said that if Comalco decided to close down it would free up 25% of the grid. They have been ramping up production by building another turbine to meet future electricity demands. Comalco buys most of its electricity at a cheap rate under a contract that expires in 2012. If a new contract offer is not acceptable to Comalco, they may close the smelter or build a new power plant on site, probably coal-fired. A major supply of electricity from Lake Manapouri would then be available for other uses. However, Lake Manapouri is a long way from the major urban centres in the North Island where most electricity is used. Don’t worry in this regard. Politicians have government legislation in place that South Islanders must continue to subsidise the transmission of electricity to the North Island. That will not change in the foreseeable future.

Negotiotions are under way between Comalco and Meridian supplying the electricity. Comalco is playing hardball. They want another 25-30 year fixed price contract and want to pay another cheap rate for electricity. What does it do? It is an aluminium smelter that imports bauxite from Aussie that needs to use massive amounts of electricity to produce aluminium. Someone said why do they use aluminium frames in windows here in NZ? They need to sell this stuff ha.. ha.. ha… Don’t worry about better or cheaper alternatives. Comalco can always be price competitive with supplying the raw material for aluminium frames. They can always lower the price to match any alternative. I think aluminium frames ARE HERE TO STAY for another 25-30 years in NZ built homes.

From its inception, more than 30 years ago, Comalco has had a sweetheart deal with whatever Government is in office. It has a special and still secret price for its electricity, a deal unavailable to anyone else. I bet you most companies in NZ, myself included, would love to buy electricity for a cheap fixed price for the next 25 years. The result is that the rest of New Zealand subsidises Comalco to the tune of several hundred million dollars per year.
That could be even higher with the current price of electricity .90% of Comalco power is bought at the contract rate [1/3 below domestic price] with 10% bought on the “spot market”). The equivalent to over 600,000 residential customers.

There is no rationale for this. In the real world (that’s economics to you and me) there is no economic justification for this madness. If you can justify it by saying it produces jobs generates foreign exchange for NZ etc blah… blah… blah. Then NZ should be building another 2 or 3 of these aluminium behemoths. They have been down this road before in the 1970’s by subsidising NZ farmers to produce wool that was stockpiled mountains high that nobody wanted to buy and virtually bankrupted the country. We would be better off paying the workers at the Comalco factory $100,000 a year just to sit at home and do nothing and close down the aluminium smelter.

Overnight you would cheapen the price of electricity and it would benefit all the other industry players who would use it productively or sell their product more competively or pick up the slack for cheaper electricity. New industries or businesses will emerge.

It is a political hot potato. Politicians don’t get re-elected if people lose their jobs or factories close down. Negotiations will remain secret and confidential and the status quo will continue.

[DB]

You were doing good until you said:

They have been down this road before in the 1970’s by subsidising NZ farmers to produce wool that was stockpiled mountains high that nobody wanted to buy and virtually bankrupted the country. We would be better off paying the workers at the Comalco factory $100,000 a year just to sit at home and do nothing and close down the aluminium smelter.

Nine hundred odd workers at 100K per annum is a huge amount of money. The Government sees benefit in Comalco staying, and much as I would also like to see the back of them, they employ people (good) and generate income for New Zealand (good), and they produce product the world wants (good), which is very different to the situation that agriculture was in the 70s.

These sorts of deals are standard for industries that use enough power, and if you were in a similar position you could negotiate a similar deal. Why do you think that Google and Microsoft are relocating their data centres next to hydro plants that produce cheap electricity? Energy hungry businesses chasing serious quantities of low cost juice.

Overnight you would cheapen the price of electricity
Indeed. In fact in the South Island the price of wholesale electicity would collapse, as there is insufficient capability to ship it to the North Island. Whether us SI folk would see any benefit is another matter.

... and it would benefit all the other industry players who would use it productively or sell their product more competively or pick up the slack for cheaper electricity. New industries or businesses will emerge.
The benefit would be for new businesses that can only survive with cheap electricity, of which Comalco is an (extreme) example. Frying pan and fire anyone? Businesses that generate decent value-add are not too worried about the price of electricity. Of course, low value-add businesses are an endemic problem in NZ, which is why we have low average wages.


It is a political hot potato. Politicians don’t get re-elected if people lose their jobs or factories close down. Negotiations will remain secret and confidential and the status quo will continue.
Indeedy.

[Jezza]

With regard to heating, I live in a very old cottage on the east coast of England, which is not the warmest place in the world. My only source of heating comes from a small cast iron stove made by a company called Hunter, which heats the whole house. I use a mixture of logs and solid fuel (smokeless coal). I bet similar stoves are available in NZ. It cost about £500 new IIRC.

[Myrkk]

I wish I could afford radiators - but they said it would not be possible to run radiators from a woodburner:(

oh and double glazing - :( too!

kat

PS Marcia - found any houses you like yet???? we will have to chat!:yes


Hi

You can run radiators from a multifuel burner. We do it here in Wales. We have a multifuel stove which has a water tank at the back of it, integral to the stove and doesn't make the stove much bigger than normal, and it runs our 4bed houses' radiators and hot water. In the winter we have it running 24hrs 7days a week without break and it makes the house too toasty if there is such a thing [I'm cold blooded]. If we want the house cooler we burn wood, when we want the fire to stay in overnight we put some anthracite on it and close all the air vents. Only down side is the amount of dust it creates.

The stove we have is a waterford erin but there are others around. I'm sure they must be available in NZ.

[movefromus]

Whoever posted about pineapple lumps - I miss those. The last time I remember eating them was when I bought a bag to take to the movies with me.

I grew up on the North Shore (Auckland) without central heating and it really wasn't that bad. I do remember not wanting to get out of my cozy bed to have a shower in the morning. We had a fireplace which we used occasionally and a gas heater that we would turn on on cold mornings. We also had an electric heater attached to the wall in the bathroom so that when we had a shower we could have the room nice and warm.

I remember when Mum came to visit us in the US she had the hardest time finding a hot water bottle. In New Zealand it's a staple IMO. Electric blankets are nice too.....bed socks and nice warm pajamas are bonuses :).

You'll adapt. My advice would be to initially arrive when the weather's not too cold so that you can ease into winter.

Carly

[veronica]

Don't loose sight of the fact that the north island winters are a darn sight warmer than the south island ones.