First Selection from Pool Announced...195 points!
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karltsmith
Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 570
Location: North Shore, Auckland since March 2004
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:42 pm Post subject: First Selection from Pool Announced...195 points! |
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Well here is what we,ve all been waiting for and if you havent got 195 points or more you've not qualified for the first dip.
I don't think any of us expected such a high selection point!!! 
Here the Gossip from NZIS: -
| Quote: | The first, preliminary selection of Expressions of Interest under the Skilled Migrant Category took place today.
The selection point was 195, meaning Expressions of Interest with 195 points or more will now undergo preliminary verification to determine whether an Invitation to Apply for residence can be issued. If your Expression of Interest was selected, you will shortly receive a letter confirming your selection.
The selection point is set prior to each selection. It is based on the number of places available in the Skilled/Business stream of the New Zealand Immigration Programme, the quality of Expressions of Interest in the Pool (as indicated by their point scores), and the total number of Expressions of Interest in the Pool at selection time.
In total, 126 Expressions of Interest were selected, representing 371 people (principal and secondary applicants). At the time of selection, there were 2137 Expressions of Interest in the Pool.
Expressions of Interest in the Pool that were not selected will remain in the Pool for three months from today. They will be withdrawn if not selected during that period.
Selections will be held fortnightly, meaning Expressions of Interest not selected today will have further chances to be selected. |
With jobs at stake for anyone with points over 150-160 it just makes it even harder to find an employer who will give you a chance...........and will wait and stay the distance........it makes you wonder if NZ REALLY WANTS YOU...ah well MORE WAITING.................  |
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Jamie Smith
Valued Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 104
Location: Auckland and Melbourne
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: First Selection from Pool Announced...195 points! |
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| Quote: | | With jobs at stake for anyone with points over 150-160 it just makes it even harder to find an employer who will give you a chance...........and will wait and stay the distance........it makes you wonder if NZ REALLY WANTS YOU...ah well MORE WAITING................. |
It will be about 4-5 months before points settle down.
This would be one of the few times any Govt Department in NZ has taken the time to test (and amend) what they are going to do.
The frustration is in how long it's taking them to do it, but at least it appears like they want to get it right. Would you rather they went off early and got it all wrong (has been known...).
Anyway, 195 points can come from any combination, but as an example it's:
2 yrs skilled employment in NZ,
current job offer (of course),
growth area industry,
outside Akld,
basic quals in the growth area industry,
10 years relevant experience with
2 years in NZ in growth industry (as in the first line),
comparable labour market,
aged 30-39 with
English speaking spouse.
I think they will have set it this high so they can verify people who are accessible in NZ to test their systems, tehy might not be ready yet to try verifying the overseas job offer holders. You are after all "over there".
And after that, they'll get down to looking at ones without jobs, still overseas.
The fortunate or unfortunate thing is that you can get a triple whammy effect if you are already working in NZ - you get first line, second line, seventh line and eight line all adding up (comparable skills enables points for work experience).
This is HEAVILY stacked in favour of the already employed in NZ. For a starting point that's how it should be - satisfy the ones who have legal rights of appeal in NZ.... Once NZIS run out of these people, the marks will come down so they can process the overseas holders of job offers.
But check the logic, 126 people per fortnight = 3276 applications, or about 9,631 total people.
Remember that skilled/business is to accout for just under 2/3 of all approvals = about 26, 000 people to come under these categories.
If you divide 26,000 by 2.94 people per application, and again divide by 26 fortnights, the usual dip will tally around 344 applications. And there is a backlog built up with 2137 in the pool.
(Stats show that people in NZ with job offers are less likley to have kids, it's the overseas applicants without job offers who have bigger families). Expect these ones to be further down the queue as NZIS would rather have higher percentages of working age people per application.
Most of the agents I know already have most of their pending cases in the system, so not much many more pending cases to come, then we'll be at normal flow levels.
Let's assume that 1/3 of these 2137 are not eligible because of points errors or misrepresentation (other countries...), then it will take 1400/344 = 4 fortnights to catch up.
Allow a few more dips to offset residual demand and another few dips to get on top of cases lodged between the first dip and the two months it will take to catch up, and I think you're looking at four to five months before points really start to come down.
Anyone outside NZ without a job, get over here and start looking if you want to get here quicker.
If the current dip are as bad as the other unchosen cases for points miscalculation, then once NZIS get a handle on it they'll enlarge the pick to compensate for overzealous points tallies and points will come down faster.
LTBV and Investor have taken a hammering and never were in the high thousands, so it's all up to SMC to make the numbers.
That's the rub. Given that immigration is a political issue, will the Minister and NZIS want to see maximum numbers coming in and risk getting caned in public (if yes, the dips will get bigger faster).
On the other hand, if they want to take bit of heat out of the economy, they'll only let the fortnightly volumes go up slowly (saying p*ss off to the desperate employers). Ain't politics fun???? |
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karltsmith
Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 570
Location: North Shore, Auckland since March 2004
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Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jamie,
Yes I hate to admit it but you are right and ultimately it is good for NZ to be choosey! I did the maths as well and got a broadly similar conclusion to you although did not allow for the natural attrition due to people pulling a fast one with their points score or not qualifying for some other reason! Thats where your experience counts eh!
This raises an intersting question though. If NZIS, during there preliminary verification process deduct points on an application they have begun to process, does this just get returned to the pool with an adjusted score,is it kicked out or does the applicant have the right to appeal against an adjustment in points?
So many questions............    |
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Jamie Smith
Valued Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 104
Location: Auckland and Melbourne
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If NZIS, during there preliminary verification process deduct points on an application they have begun to process, does this just get returned to the pool with an adjusted score,is it kicked out or does the applicant have the right to appeal against an adjustment in points?
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hey Karl
I'm fairly sure it gets returned to the pool, perhaps tossed out if clearly improper in behaviour rather than minor error. NZIS have been saying they can do people with immigration fraud for blatant overstatement, but as most applcations are overseas, they'll have difficulty. Actually, their comment smacks of being "b*gger, didn't think of that, let me get you back".
Under this new system, there are NO rights of appeal, and that's the bit I worry about, as amongst the many good case officers are some diabolical ones.
Cheers |
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richsadams
Electronics Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Formerly the U.S. now in the Bay of Plenty, New Zealand!
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:05 am Post subject: 195 Points |
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All,
Good for the NZIS  After two months they pull 5% of the applications from the pool?! I really hate to complain, but at that rate, with an average of 1,000 EOI's going in per month, how long will it take them to process what's already there, then catch up?
For those of us that have serious job offers...how long do they expect employers to hold a position open? 
| Quote: | | Anyone outside NZ without a job, get over here and start looking if you want to get here quicker. |
I think Jamie's right...this will just encourage people to move there and not worry about following proper procedures!
Okay, I'm better now. But seriously, I hope - as has been mentioned - that this first draw was to "test the waters". It will certainly discourage many good people from even applying (and that may be what they're trying to do. )
I suppose statistically that if only 126 EOI's were rated at 195 points or above...and some of those will be thrown back for fudging the numbers, the odds will improve for others, but how long will that take? 
So now it's on to the week of March 1...good luck to all of us...we're going to need it!  |
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SoCal Gal
I Like It Here
Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 84
Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 4:40 am Post subject: First Selection from Pool |
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Now I am really confused about what to do! Rich, may I ask what your plans are for a time line? Hope that's not too intrusive, but from what I am seeing, the thing to do is sell our house, get our animals quarantine-ready, move our stuff.....get over there, get a job and hope it all works out eventually??? I felt pretty good about my 115 points, as my husband and I are both in growth categories, but now.....how long is too long to wait?
Just venting mostly, but can't help but be disappointed! Appreciate all comments from others in similar boats!  |
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evelynne_r
I Like It Here
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 94
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: |
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I must admit I'm really frustrated by this. I was one of the ones who just missed the interim category (Police certificates took so long to come through) so I'd really hoped to see some movement on my application. Oh well, I guess there's nothing for it but to sit tight and wait.
I can appreciate why NZIS wants to take its time and get this right, but... why did it have to be when I was applying? <sigh>
Good luck to all.
Cheers,
Evelynne |
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richsadams
Electronics Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Formerly the U.S. now in the Bay of Plenty, New Zealand!
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: Points! |
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Hi SoCalGal,
We are certainly disappointed as well...but again, a draw of 5% of the total EOI's can only mean that they aren't comfortable with the system yet and want to give it a try before they dive in. Can't blame 'em I guess, but for those on the outside looking in, it's almost cruel.
Based on our consultant's counsel, we were planning on moving near the end of May, early June. When we first contacted them (October) we were focused on a LTBV, but they recommended the Skilled Emigrant Category as the chances of obtaining a PRV are much better. My wife has a standing offer of employment and an understanding employer, but if it's going to be this time next year before we could move, I'm sure the offer would disappear. I sent a note to our consultant to see what our alternatives are now.
Sooooo, that being said, we'll be interested to see what we can do going forward.
I've been in touch with others from the U.S. (now in NZ) that sold their house, put everything in storage (in the U.S.) and headed to NZ on a Visa to see if they can find work. Now I think they are ahead of all of us that wanted to do it the "right way" (as Jamie points out) they'll be able to accumulate as many as 15 or more more points simply by being there. 
As Jamie, Karl and others have said, the passmark will certainly drop, but who knows how far and when? That makes it almost impossible for people to plan their futures and simply encourages people to go and as you say, "hope it all works out eventually". Not a good way to manage things in my humble opinion.
We'll see what happens! Hang in there and keep us posted. |
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SoCal Gal
I Like It Here
Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 84
Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:55 am Post subject: First Selection |
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Thanks, Rich, for the info. Well, I can honestly say that when I started this process a few months ago, I really didn't know what to do. I had heard from several people of knowing someone who ditched it all here and moved to NZ. I had no idea how they did it, as I did not know the parties myself. Wanting to do things the "right" way, I ponied up my $315 NZ and submitted the application. I don't think these other folks I heard about did things this way! I think they just went for it! I'm a planner myself, with pets and homeownership, so I would have liked to have been a little more cautious, but now, who knows? We would like to move by the end of 2004, so we'll just see what happens.
Good luck to everyone, and I do enjoy hearing the stories from others!
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richsadams
Electronics Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Formerly the U.S. now in the Bay of Plenty, New Zealand!
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:01 am Post subject: Points |
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Hi Jamie,
Thanks for all of your insight, much appreciated!
Can you do us a favor and list the points next to your example...
| Quote: | 2 yrs skilled employment in NZ,
current job offer (of course),
growth area industry,
outside Akld,
basic quals in the growth area industry,
10 years relevant experience with
2 years in NZ in growth industry (as in the first line),
comparable labour market,
aged 30-39 with
English speaking spouse |
I want to ensure my math is right before asking our consultant some more questions. Because, as you say...
| Quote: | | The fortunate or unfortunate thing is that you can get a triple whammy effect if you are already working in NZ - you get first line, second line, seventh line and eight line all adding up (comparable skills enables points for work experience). |
If that's true, and you have a standing job offer, wouldn't it make sense to simply apply for a Work Visa/Permit, get there ASAP, earn the additional points and then apply for a PRV concurrantly or later? (Assuming they don't change the laws! )
Thanks again!  |
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evelynne_r
I Like It Here
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 94
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| I think that's what's frustrating me at this point - I did go to NZ, find myself a job, been in it for six months and still haven't got enough points at this stage :o( |
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Jamie Smith
Valued Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 104
Location: Auckland and Melbourne
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:56 am Post subject: Re: Points |
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| Quote: |
Can you do us a favor and list the points next to your example...
2 yrs skilled employment in NZ,
current job offer (of course),
growth area industry,
outside Akld,
basic quals in the growth area industry,
10 years relevant experience with
2 years in NZ in growth industry (as in the first line),
comparable labour market,
aged 30-39 with
English speaking spouse |
This came from just clicking on the Points calculator. I had between 120 and 210 before I got a reasonable basket of points.
But the online thing can be tricky, so suggest you download the SMC brochure with points table in it, more reliable. |
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JCM
Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 275
Location: Christchurch since last century
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Cor Blimey Guv - can't see the total staying this high for very long. |
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richsadams
Electronics Guru
Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 156
Location: Formerly the U.S. now in the Bay of Plenty, New Zealand!
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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:02 pm Post subject: Points |
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All,
Since my wife's job offer is on the POL list, we've decided to take Karl's lead and apply for a Work Visa.  That will allow us to meet our commitment to her employer while keeping our EOI active.
We wanted to go in with "no strings attached" but it looks as if the NZIS isn't going to make it that easy for anyone. 
Even if they pull 400 EOI's by the end of March, what about the 2,500 or so that will still be in the queue? How many job offers will be lost?
If all goes as planned (and since when has THAT happened?  ) we should be touching down in Auckland around the end of May.
We'll keep you posted and once again, good luck to all!  |
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