Is Cost of Living REALLY Lower?

LovingKiwiland · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 11:20 am Post subject: Is Cost of Living REALLY Lower?

Hi- My husband and I are seriously thinking of moving to NZ, and we are so excited!

But in doing some research, it seems like everything- from products like cars, electronics, clothing and groceries to services like internet service, mobile phones etc cost MORE than it costs at home. A $40,000 car here costs well over $100000 there, text messaging is $10/month there, $4.99 here.

We do not expect to be paid more in NZ$'s for our work than in US (in other words, if we earn $100000US here, we expect our salary there will be about $100000NZ- or perhaps less- for the same job).

Why do I keep reading that cost of living is 40% or more cheaper than the US? Any thoughts?

aurora · Posted: Wed May 05, 2004 11:03 pm Post subject:

Having lived and worked in San Jose, USA (albeit 1993), in comparison I would suggest that in NZ the standard of living is lower but the quality of life is higher. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

Raeven · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 1:36 am Post subject:

Hi, LovingKiwiland,

My husband and I have not yet made the move to NZ, but we've been ceaselessly researching these issues as well. I think it just depends on the sort of things you purchase in seeking to maintain your lifestyle.

Certainly if you purchase an American-made car, it will cost you much more than a Japanese import in NZ. Even so, we were shocked at what it would cost us to replace our Honda (not a widely manufactured make, and we figured that's the reason... we won't be replacing it)! Still, a very decent vehicle can be had for between $10-20K NZ, so that's much better than here.

Gasoline is much dearer in NZ, but in general people don't commute there as we do here, so we feel that mitigates the cost significantly.

I haven't noticed that electronic equipment is more expensive, but again, I'm sure it depends greatly on the type of equipment you wish to purchase.

On the positive side of the ledger, compare your current property taxes to what you pay in NZ for council rates -- which include services such as water and trash removal -- and you will be pleasantly surprised. For that matter, compare what you pay for housing! And NZ has no capital gains tax, if that's an issue for you. Health care is less costly, too.

Groceries are all over the board. Some things are less expensive, some things are more expensive... if you like salmon, you will weep when you see the prices. Which seems weird to me, considering that NZ is surrounded by water.. oh, well, we'll go catch our own!

I thought my husband was having some sort of fit when I learned he was browsing websites in NZ that sell tools. The cost difference there is jaw-dropping. Our solution is to keep a running list of things we'll buy when visiting the States to take back with us.

As aurora points out, it's the quality of life in NZ that makes the move worthwhile. We plan to walk more, watch a lot less tv, get reacquainted with our musical instruments, spend a whole lot less time working and a whole lot more time camping! We may lower our standard of living somewhat, but we hope to find more time to enjoy each other's company and barbecue with the neighbors (not salmon very often).

All the best to you and your husband in making the move!

Rae

Robert · Posted: Thu May 06, 2004 7:07 pm Post subject:

I don't think raeven will be disappointed!

It seems you ahve done some very thorough research.

Your perception of value may also depend on which part of the country you are from. I suspect that people from London find life here much cheaper whilst people from Manchester find it about the same. I asked a Scottish chap who thought things cost more here. Everything is relative! I am sure people from Delaware would be horrified at paying tax on their purchases for instance...

Some things are indeed bizarrely pricey (I paid £220 for a good trumpet. The exact same model is $2500 here) whilst others are cheap. Salmon costs about the same here as in the UK.

Some motoring costs: Nissan Mistral (terrano II) 4x4 2.7 TD costs about 11cents per KM (depending on price of fuel which does vary a fair bit from day to day) Honda Logo (smaller version of civic really) 1.3 petrol costs 7.1 cents per KM. Servicing is about $150-$300 with tyres from $40 to $300 each. Prices in NZD on 1.5.04
Commuting distances in Christchurch are a maximum of 17KM unless you deliberately choose a very rural setting.

Raeven · Posted: Fri May 07, 2004 2:25 am Post subject:

Hi, Robert,

I just composed a lengthy response to your post, but apparently I wasn't quick enough 'coz it went into the Ozone when I went to post it. I'll try to summarize my thoughts again here -- more quickly!

Thanks very much for the validation! I've spent a lot of time comparing costs for such things as housing, day-to-day living expenses (food, clothing, fuel, vehicles, insurance, health care) and taxes between here and our intended destinations, either Blenheim or Nelson. For us, the major difference is housing costs.

I visited NZ at the end of March/beginning of April and did intense cost analysis for these items. I bit my lip a lot to keep from smiling while the locals tsk-tsked at the shocking rise in housing prices. I know that prices seem unbelievable to the local population at the moment. But coming from a very similar situation here in California, I feel it's just the beginning. Twenty years ago, when I first came here, the Central Coast wine industry was in its infancy -- much as it is in the Marlborough region today. I was stunned at the housing prices here then. Since that time, the wine industry here has gained worldwide renown for its chardonnay and other popular white wines, and housing prices have increased by 500%. I think I know where Marlborough/Nelson regions are headed -- indeed, all of NZ.

We are also excited at the opportunities in NZ to become fully self-employed. Here, there are so many impediments to starting a going concern: Licensing and tax issues, workers' compensation insurance, rules and regulations till you just want to scream. I currently run a small, part-time home business (sadly not transferable to NZ as it is based on US tax code), and that's as far as I want to go with self-employment here. But we have some big ideas for businesses in NZ, and I can't wait to give them a try. I'd love to provide some well-paying employment opportunities for New Zealanders!

Lastly, the friendliness of the NZ people in making a determination to shift cannot be underestimated. While I was there visiting, I was so impressed by the willingness of people to stop and have a chat. They were genuinely interested in exchanging points of view. Recently, I contacted a law firm in Blenheim in response to an online job solicitation for a legal assistant (my day job). Rather than just blowing me off as being too unavailable, they took the time to review my qualifications and extended a very enthusiastic invitation for me to contact them for further discussions about work when we arrive there, including an offer to help in our move in any way they can (short of a flat-out job offer!). Even if nothing comes of it, I was very touched by their willingness to give me an opportunity to sell myself to them. I like New Zealanders a lot, wherever they come from, and I look forward to living among them. Who can put a price on nice people?

Here's me, running on again... thanks very much, Robert, for confirming my cost research has been reasonably complete. I appreciate your perspective! Loved the trumpet experience.. I'm so glad you purchased that in the UK rather than NZ! I enjoyed my limited time in Christchurch during my visit.. the buskers in the square and the general lightheartedness of the populace were refreshing. We have relatives in the ChCh area and will no doubt be visiting there from time to time. Jam session...?

All the best to you, Rae

LovingKiwiland · Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 11:40 am Post subject:

Thanks to aurora, raeven and robert (hope I got those right, they are from memory) for responding to me. My husband is a kiwi but he has lived here for years. All I can say is the state of the US at the moment has fueled our dreams to move to NZ to start our family and raise kids.

Raeven, you have certainly done your homework! Can you advise as to the sources you used to gain your knowledge?

I think our overriding concern is- what if we decide we want to return? First, by going there I assume my husband will lose his green card, and to come back and have to go through that whole horrible process again- YUCK! Second, taking our US$'s there will be nice, but if we earn NZ$'s for a few years and then decide to return to the US, we will lose value in our $.

But we both are really committed to researching and thinking deeply about what will be best for us in the long run. We have fun in LA, but I cannot imagine raising kids here.

Raeven, can I ask what has prompted you to want to leave the central coast? Why New Zealand?

Robert · Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:50 pm Post subject:

I said I bought a trumpet. Playing it is another matter.... Wink

I was speaking to another English chap today who came out some 5 years ago. In his view, the cost of living has risen about 50% during that time but then he did come over just before the dollar crashed.

Still, his experience is not to be sniffed at so passeing it on...

Rob

Raeven · Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 2:03 am Post subject:

Hi, LovingKiwiLand,

Tough decision to move, isn't it? We are in very similar situations. My husband is also a native New Zealander, and we have the same green card issues. In fact, we are due to apply to have his conditions removed in July and are planning to move to NZ in September, so what a lot of hassle for nothing here in the US, if that in fact happens! I have complete sympathy for you in not wanting to go through the whole US immigration dog-and-pony show again.

I also have the same fears regarding wanting to come back to the US if we do in fact move to NZ. There is no question we would be irrevocably prohibited from returning to the Central Coast area, which I love dearly. We are looking at our move to NZ as being a permanent shift, with no real ability to come back if we take the plunge. We could of course return to another part of the US where the cost of living is cheaper, but I am presently dealing with a huge internal struggle over giving up a known paradise (Central Coast) for the prospect of another better one (NZ).

However, the primary factors in favor of moving to NZ are these: First, my husband's mother lives there and is becoming quite aged. He is feeling the pull of home and wants to be more available to help her in these last years of life. Second, his daughter lives in Australia, and we are not able to see her as often as we'd like because of the enormous distance to here (she'll still be a long way away if we move to NZ, but it's all relative, isn't it?). Third, we feel there are a lot more opportunities for us in NZ to live in a way we truly value. Here, we each work more than full-time jobs, with me running a home business on weekends and my husband taking odd jobs in carpentry, etc., in order to maintain an income sufficient to enjoy our lifestyle here. In NZ, we believe we could scale back significantly on the work front and have far more time to enjoy our time together and doing things we love, such as camping, gardening and in general taking it a little easier. Last, things have gotten nuts here in the US. Like others on this wonderful message board, I am horrified at what is happening at the highest levels of our government. I strongly believe we are in for some really rough times ahead here in the US to put things right again, and I'd rather be well out of it. So that's the rationale in a nutshell. Not sure it helps you much in making your own decision to immigrate to NZ!

Personally, we won't make the move if we can't fully commit to becoming New Zealanders -- meaning we will not plan to return to the US. As you have said, coming back is nearly impossible.

Good luck to you both in pursuing your dreams! Please feel free to PM if you want to carry on with this discussion... I'd be most interested to hear your own thoughts in considering the move.

All the best, Rae

LovingKiwiland · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:57 pm Post subject:

Rae, that is amazing how similar our situations are! Sounds like you have thought it out extensively. Its funny, because it seems like it should be such an easy decision to move to paradise, but it is so scary at the same time.

Would love to continue to compare our findinds and discuss our thoughts as we go through this process!