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lesly
I Like It Here
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:35 am Post subject: starts with 'holiday', ends with 'permanent residence' |
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Hi all,
JCM once wrote: | Quote: | | If you arrive here 'on holiday' and turn up at a Dept of Immigration office within a few days with job offer and all of your paperwork filled in, they will almost certainly doubt that your true purpose in coming to NZ was a holiday. This might cause problems. |
Does this mean that it is actually illegal to do it like this? Of course they will doubt the true purpose of the 'holiday', but is it against the law to leave and sell everything in your own country to try to start a new life in another? Do we first have to return home after getting a job offer, or can we stay on a work permit, waiting and hoping to be invited for permanent residence. Is it possible for our children to go to school in NZ, even without parents having work permits?
Lots of questions, but we don't want to feel like criminals in a ravishing country were we would like to start the first day of the rest of our lives!
Thanks, Lesly |
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Grey
I Like It Here
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 74
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:20 am Post subject: |
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It's not illegal to do this, in fact most people seem to go this way. I think some countries you have to leave to make an application but not NZ. Even if they doubt the true purpose of your visit I don't think it will be an issue. Nothing wrong with going there to genuinely visit, then happen to like it so want to stay.. They're more concerned with people they believe will stay illegally.. There is provision within the visitor's visa that if you are applying for PR while in NZ they can extend the visa to allow for a descision, they wouldn't do this if it was frowned upon..
Regarding schools, you could put them in before getting work permits/PR, but you would be charged International fees, which probably ain't cheap! Also need to apply for study permits (which you'll need anyway if on work permits). |
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JCM
Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 275
Location: Christchurch since last century
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Lesly and Grey,
I posted earlier:
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Gregg, the work permit situation in New Zealand works something like this:
Let's say you come to New Zealand on 'holiday' for a few weeks and decide you love it here. You find yourself with a job offer. If you take all of the required paperwork along to an Immigration Dept. office in the same locality as you've been offered the job, it is possible to have a work permit issued on the spot. This is most likely to happen if the offered job is on the Occupational Shortage List or Priority Occupations List.
If the offered job is not on one of these lists, your employer-to-be will almost certainly have to submit a "Labourmarket Check" to establish with the Dept. of Immigration that they have advertised the job and there is no New Zealander able to do it. If you're lucky, the employer will already have had the labourmarket check carried out. If they haven't, they have to send off paperwork to WINZ, for WINZ to carry out the check. This will take 2 -3 weeks. Your employer-to-be can then pass the labourmarket-check paperwork on to you to enable you to get a work permit.
It should be said that many smaller employers are reluctant to do the paperwork, etc, required for a labourmarket check and would much prefer to find someone that they don't need to do all this for.
N.B. If you arrive here 'on holiday' and turn up at a Dept of Immigration office within a few days with job offer and all of your paperwork filled in, they will almost certainly doubt that your true purpose in coming to NZ was a holiday. This might cause problems.
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Let's look at some scenarios. I should make it clear that these are purely my interpretation of a discussion I had recently with an a NZIS officer and are not an offical NZIS statement.
a. You arrive at NZ customs and openly declare your purpose is to find a job.
Result: You will be refused entry to NZ.
b. You arrive at NZ customs and declare your purpose is vacation/holiday/recreation. When your bags are searched, the customs officer discovers CV's, letters of recommendations from former employers, etc.
Result: You will be refused entry to NZ because your purpose appears to be to find a job.
c. You arrive at NZ customs and declare your purpose is vacation/holiday/recreation. You are allowed into New Zealand. A month later, you turn up a Dept of Immigration office with a job offer and application for a work permit.
Result: It is very likely you get a work permit - provided your papers are in order and the job criteria above are met and you maintain that your purpose in coming to NZ was vacation but that you 'fell in love with the country and just happened to find work' 
d. You arrive at NZ customs and declare your purpose is vacation/holiday/recreation. You are allowed into New Zealand. A day or two later, you turn up a Dept of Immigration office with a job offer and application for a work permit.
Result: It is possible (not definite) that you will be required to leave the country as the evidence is consistent with the fact that your primary purpose in coming to NZ was to find work.
At the end of the day, a bit of common sense over timings should prevent you running into problems with the NZIS. |
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JCM
Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 275
Location: Christchurch since last century
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: starts with 'holiday', ends with 'permanent residence' |
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| lesly wrote: |
is it against the law to leave and sell everything in your own country to try to start a new life in another?
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I suppose whether we are willing to do this, with no guarantees of work or residence in NZ, depends on our bravery/daring/risk taking or whatever we want to call it. Personally, I would be terrified of doing this.  |
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veronica
Valued Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 142
Location: christchurch
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:47 pm Post subject: working holiday visa |
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| slightly different subject, for those of us from the uk who can get a working holiday visa, whats the possibilities if you go to New Zealand on that visa and apply for permenant residency towards the end of the year. Anyone any ideas on the outcome of that. cheers Veronica |
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lesly
I Like It Here
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Jcm,
We will sell our house before we leave, because letting it would be too much of a burden. My husband though is just having a career interruption for 1 year, I don't know about UK or NZ, but you even get payed for that here in Belgium! So we hope it will all work out fine, but if it doesn't, we could return to Belgium, my husband would have his job back, and life would go on. So what we do is as they call it in Belgium:' taking calculated risks'!
But that doesn't mean that we 're not terrified!!!  |
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karltsmith
Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 570
Location: North Shore, Auckland since March 2004
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| It seams an ideal time for you with that safety net to fall back on!!! |
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lesly
I Like It Here
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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It 's just a matter of responsability, especially when you have 2 children.
In our case even one disabled child. Our children have always had an
unconcerned life till now  , so let's keep it that way!! |
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Grey
I Like It Here
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 74
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| JCM wrote: |
b. You arrive at NZ customs and declare your purpose is vacation/holiday/recreation. When your bags are searched, the customs officer discovers CV's, letters of recommendations from former employers, etc.
Result: You will be refused entry to NZ because your purpose appears to be to find a job. |
Hi JCM, this was raised by NZAMI some time ago. The response from NZIS was that if this really was to happen then to call for the most senior immigration officer to sort out. It shouldn't be happening.
NZIS will often advise going over as visitors to sort out work.
You'll have to make your own choice, but personally I'd have no doubts at all in doing this as many do every year. |
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karltsmith
Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 570
Location: North Shore, Auckland since March 2004
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Just a thought...But why not prepare all your docs and have one of the family airmail to you from the UK once you are there??? They could send it to your Hotel, Motel or your could send it ahead by arrangement with a NZ freind or to a job agency!!!!  |
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lesly
I Like It Here
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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Hallelujah!!
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JCM
Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 275
Location: Christchurch since last century
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| Grey wrote: |
Hi JCM, this was raised by NZAMI some time ago. The response from NZIS was that if this really was to happen then to call for the most senior immigration officer to sort out. It shouldn't be happening.
NZIS will often advise going over as visitors to sort out work. |
Thanks for that clarification Grey. This seems to be one of these 'grey' areas not covered by the operations manual, which is why I asked someone from the NZIS about it. It looks as if the officer I discussed it with was not senior/knowledgable enough though.  |
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Grey
I Like It Here
Joined: 05 Jan 2004
Posts: 74
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| JCM wrote: |
Thanks for that clarification Grey. This seems to be one of these 'grey' areas not covered by the operations manual, which is why I asked someone from the NZIS about it. It looks as if the officer I discussed it with was not senior/knowledgable enough though. |
Probably best to still class it as a 'grey area' (like it!  ) as you say it's not really in the manual. Karl's suggestion of sending things on later sounds good, I wouldn't want to hear of anyone being turned away. |
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lesly
I Like It Here
Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Belgium
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Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2004 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts!
We will send the paperwork to our nephew in Owhango NZ,
we intended to visit him in the first place anyway! |
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JCM
Moderator
Joined: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 275
Location: Christchurch since last century
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: working holiday visa |
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| veronica wrote: | | slightly different subject, for those of us from the uk who can get a working holiday visa, whats the possibilities if you go to New Zealand on that visa and apply for permanant residency towards the end of the year. Anyone any ideas on the outcome of that. cheers Veronica |
Hi Veronica, the working holiday visa, although not allowing permanent employment, is a very good way to earn money in NZ whilst seeing the country and, if your goal is permanent residence, making contact with potential employers. You can apply for PR at any time while you're in NZ under the scheme and your application will be judged against the usual criteria.
| grey wrote: | | Probably best to still class it as a 'grey area' (like it! ) as you say it's not really in the manual. Karl's suggestion of sending things on later sounds good, I wouldn't want to hear of anyone being turned away. |
Cheers Grey. Yes, my own feeling is it's better to play safe rather than be sorry or run into complications at the airport. It's a long, long flight to NZ from most places and the last thing you want when you've finally stepped off the 'plane is to have a possible argument with customs people and ask them to call in more senior officials, etc.
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