The Rough With The Smooth

karltsmith · Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:24 pm Post subject: The Rough With The Smooth

Hi Folks,

Having all but recovered from my knee injury, torn medial collateral ligament 8 weeks ago, I could not believe our luck when my wife (Dr Tigger!!!) went out last night to play netball with the work mates....nothing serious just an excuse to get to know ones colleagues a bit better.

After an hour the phone rang at home and Dr Tigger was nursing a bad knee injury! A close friend came over to look after the twins who were in bed by this time! I picked her up, quite literally, and put her in the car to come home. My friend then took me back again to collect her car.

On our return we decided her knee required immediate treatment and so I took her to an A&E clinic. She was seen within 20 mins by a doctor who diagnosed exactly the same injury as myself only on the other knee!!!! What are the chances of that Confused

.?

Her injury is much worse than mine because she can't even walk on it Wah

and is now hobbling around on crutches (weedy pome

). She will need to have it assesed again to see if her cruciate ligaments are OK and we are hoping that no surgery is needed. rain cloud

The Good

the Bad

and the Ugly Nutcase

?

The Good Razz

How fantastic was the service we recieved.......top draw stuff...no waiting for 5 hours in a cold A&E dept prison

to be told to go home home with a few pain killers and to see your GP!

The Bad Very Puzzled

She will probably take at least 8-12 weeks to recover and can't drive so I'm up at sparrows f**t rae's dancing banana

with the twins to take her into work elephant

! The doctors wanted her off work for at least 1 week but since she is the only one in a job at present we would have no income! Wake up call!!
falling bricks

The Ugly

Although treatment for such injuries is part funded by the ACC, Accident Compensation Commision Clapping

, it will still cost a few hundred dollars for treatment once she has had physio hooray

etc. Now the crunch is...... because she has not worked at her employers for over 6 months she is not entitled to sick leave...i.e. no pay...no cover...zilch

. Although she is a committed individual (depatmental supervisor in a pharmaceutical lab) who regulary works more than her alloted hours and brings work home with her evenings and weekends when necessary her employers aren't bending to accomodate her injury! Uhoh

I just thought I would relate this cautionary tale because if you are relying on one wage and you spend all your money on setting up home etc. these things can hit you hard financially in the first few months of your job and you need to budget for contingencies such as this!

If you are used to a welfare state as we were in the UK this does all seem quite foreign to us. I don't know how our friends accross the "pond " handle such matters as I am not Au Fait with there employment laws and welfare!

ranton

Personally if I worked for an employer with such an unbending approach I think my days would be numbered. outta here

Bearing in mind especially that this was an organised works social to promote team building!!!!!!

Some team I must say.....When I turned up to pick her up not a single "team mate" had waited with her for the half hour it took me to arrive!!

rantoff

OK I've vented it now and I feel at one again Yes

Back to the comfort

Tanya · Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 6:17 pm Post subject:

Blimey Karl - It never rains but it pours Uhoh

Tanya

Raeven · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:39 am Post subject:

Ohhhhh, karl, I am so sorry to hear of your poor wife's misadventure. I'm even more stunned to hear of the uncaring position taken by her employers! While it's true things are downright cruel here in the States as regards medical coverage and paid leave time, employers are at least sympathetic to situations that arise... not that this is much consolation if you're dealing with such a situation! In this country, if you find yourself without health insurance for any reason, you hardly dare step out of your house for fear of what might happen to you. One misstep can ruin you for a lifetime. When I changed jobs a year and a half ago, we were left without health insurance for a 3-month period.. it was scary as hell. The job my husband now has he keeps mainly for the health insurance coverage it provides for us both. Many decisions made here regarding employment are driven exclusively on the basis of health coverage offered.

I am glad to hear your wife's care was excellent, and I wish her a speedy and full recovery. I'm sorry you are all having to go through such a rough period. Your advice to us here to make provisions in the event of such a catastrophe is well taken.. I just wish we didn't have to learn the lesson at your expense.

Not much I can do from so far away, but my thoughts are with you.

All the best, Rae

Azazel · I Like It Here Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

Wouldn't they have sued the employer in the states for negligence?

Raeven · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:23 am Post subject:

Hi, Azazel,

No, not likely. Contrary to popular belief, successful litigation in frivolous situations -- or even non-friolous situations! -- is rare here indeed. You hear about those cases (McDonald's hot coffee case, e.g.) because they are rare. That makes them news. And let's not forget that cases like that happened quite a long time ago. Many changes have occurred in our justice system since then.

Most people are not aware that plaintiffs take on an enormous personal risk when they file litigation. Often, the costs to bring suit are so exhorbitant that even cases with merit go unfiled. Here's a little-known scenario about personal injury lawsuits, in California at least:

Suppose you are in a car accident. The person that hit you was clearly at fault. You have a police report that says this is the case. You spent days in the hospital, lost money at work, and let's say you have lost the ability to have sexual relations with your wife because of your accident. There is no real way to compensate you for your losses, but money is as close as you can come. So you sue -- with good cause -- and you ask for your medical costs to be reimbursed, your lost wages to be reimbursed, and tack on an amount for your loss of consortium with your wife and your pain and suffering. Let's say you ask for a modest sum, $100,000. And let's say you have an attorney who believes in your case and is willing to take the case on contingency, meaning he'll take a third of your award if you get one, so you don't have to pay attorney's fees if you don't. Looks good, doesn't it?

Ok, now cough up your filing fees -- probably upwards of $1,000 -- and get ready to pay up front for your expert witnesses who will come to testify, copying, mailing, exhibit preparation, depositions, etc. Trust me; you're already in over $10,000 out-of-pocket. Now let's say your opponents, lawyers who represent an insurance company, have cannily assessed that you were previously treated by a chiropractor for back pain. They make a settlement offer to you of $10,000. Ludicrous! It doesn't even cover your out-of-pocket expenses!! Naturally, you reject the offer. Oh, dear.

You attend all the pretrial hearings, meetings, depositions.. lots more of your time spent and possibly wasted. Eventually, 2 to five years from your date of filing if you're lucky, you get to trial. Your lawyer does a great job of putting on your case -- yayy!! Now the defense gets up and insinuates that much of your trouble results from previous injuries.. remember that chiropractor you saw? Well, he was treating what are now termed pre-existing conditions -- which means that the defendant couldn't possibly have caused all that pain and suffering you went through!! You were already injured, don't you know? You watch helplessly as your jurors lean back and fold their arms. Finally, after days pass in your life you can never get back, the jury renders a verdict. They decide that even though you had those "pre-existing conditions," your pain and suffering deserves an award of $10,000. Wow. It barely covers your costs of suit, but at least you won, right? Wrong!! The law here says that if your award from a jury is equal to or less than any previously-made settlement offer, you lose. And that makes you liable not only for your own costs, but the costs of the defendant as well -- including his attorneys' fees!! Your defendant actually won!!

Still think litigation in the States is widespread and an easy buck?

You can probably tell you hit a nerve with me, Azazel... and I do know what I'm talking about. I was a judge's assistant for 14 years and sat through countless trials, including many arising from valid personal injuries. I can't tell you how many times I watched sadly as plaintiffs with good cause brought their cases to trial for justice and got hosed. I could tell you story after story. Some of them were so sad and the defense verdicts they suffered were plain wrong.

Anyway, I've gone on far too long, but I just had to set the record straight on this issue. Remember, when you read about it, it's because it's news -- which means it's not the norm!!

All the best, Rae

Raeven · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:31 am Post subject:

Sorry, karl... didn't mean to highjack your thread!! Embarassed

Contritely, Rae

Lisa.C · I Like It Here Joined: 03 Jul 2004 Posts: 75

Hi Karl

I hope your wife makes a speedy recovery, i guess you are going to be exhausted for a while, Yes

It's a nightmare scenario to say the least, and certainly gives us food for thought, as for the first year we will be a one income family Uhoh

Thinking of you
Lisa

Timbo · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:28 am Post subject:

Sorry to hear your bad news Karl. I hope your wife makes a speedy recovery. Out of interest, did you have private med. insurance in place, or do you not consider it worthwhile?
I understand it is quite common practice out there as the acc only goes some way.

Azazel · I Like It Here Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

Hi Raeven

Thanks for the in-sight.
To be honest the comment wasn't a dig at the apparent american way it was meant as quite an honest comment Embarassed

As Karls wife was out on a works do that was organised by work then they would be responsible (in some way) for events arising from that.

I suppose for all of the UKs faults there are some areas we do fair better off in, this being one of them (though the issue in the UK is now that people would get paid for the time off and they would sue the employer grrrrr (I'm not a fan either of mindless people trying to make quick money))

PS. Do you subscribe to or read the True Stella Awards?
Quite an amusing email newsletter/website concerning the silly cases people try to bring up in the American Courts

http://www.stellaawards.com/caselog.html

PPS. Hope your wife gets well soon Karl ... do you get to take over netball duties now as well? Razz

Timbo · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:05 am Post subject:

Azazel. I just checked out that link, and I have found myself feeling sorry for James Brown. I never would have thought that would happen.
Hey, does that mean I can sue YOU.

Azazel · I Like It Here Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 64

haha

Raeven · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 7:40 am Post subject:

Hi, Azazel,

Loved the link!!

My apologies to you.. in re-reading my post, it seems quite strident, and like you, that was not my intention.. I did actually take your post to be an honest comment -- just one I've heard so many times and one which my own insight into the American justice system compells me to defend. Perhaps too zealously!! Anyway, all I meant to do was point out a flipside.

I agree that in the States, karl's wife might have a shot at compensation if her workplace considered her attendance compulsory.. if attendance was at her own election, even here it wouldn't fly. It's clear you have a legal mind!!

Also wanted to share that I have seen a few frivolous lawsuits filed.. one of my all-time favorite trials was the guy who sued McDonald's because he found a mouse baked into his apple turnover.. it didn't take the defense long to prove that in fact the mouse had been cooked at a different temperature and had been unceremoniously stuffed into the pastry just before it was.. errrr.. bitten into. The jury was out for less than an hour and it was an easy verdict for me to read -- defensed! Still, gotta hand it to the enterprising con artist who is willing to bite through a whole, cooked rodent in order to run his scam! Eeeuuuggghhh.

I can't find James Brown!!

Thanks for sharing, and again my apologies to you, Azazel!! In the words of Emily Latilla... never mind. - Rae

Timbo · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:08 am Post subject:

Rae. James Brown is being sued by his own daughters for royalties.
They claim they are owed because they helped to write some of his songs.....they were age three at the time.

richsadams · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:34 am Post subject: Karl's Wife

Hi Karl and All

Karl...I am totally bummed about you and your wife's misfortune! Eek

The odds are staggering. The chances of that must be a zillion to one. Just to be safe, I'd go out and buy a couple of lottery tickets right away! Yes

Really hope she's back up to speed quickly...but don't push it too much...the older we get the longer it takes for wounds to heal...God's little way of reminding us to slow down I suppose. Nutcase

Rae...your take on the American justice system is right on. However, you left out the most typical case: Some jerk causes an accident and has NO insurance. You can sue their pants off but low and behold you find out that they rent their house, their car is being repossessed and they haven't paid taxes in ten years. Eek

So what happens? They get off scott free!

Oh, they get their license suspended...but they drive anyway. They manage to scrape together enough cash for another piece of junk and they're back on the road the next week. Guess who ends up paying for everything? You and your insurance company...the same one that will promptly drop you for even being in an accident when renewal time rolls around. If you're lucky you find another insurance company which charges you quadruple the previous premium for having been in an accident...and none of it was your fault! Then you get a notice from work that your health insurance is being switched to the "Dewey Cheatem and Howe" HMO and oh, by the way, your premiums will double as well. Welcome to America! rantoff

Wow! Haven't vented like that since we left the states...very un-Kiwi like. But I feel better! Laughing

So do some idiot Americans file stupid lawsuits? Yes they do. But they are a tiny percentage and others simply can't be sued as they have nothing so the rest end up paying for it. Thank God they have some common sense here in NZ!! Nice One

Really hope the wife feels better Karl...now tell her you'll take her out dancing as soon as she's ready! rae's dancing banana

karltsmith · Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:37 am Post subject:

Hi All,

And that you for your good wishes!

To answer a few points, Yes we do have healthinsurance for the whole family via my wifes employer. In this instance we did not need to use it because of ACC cover however should she need an operation we have the option of private medical or state hospital if it comes to that.

Re liability, none accepted by the employer, these events are apparently informal staff gatherings under the auspicies of team building socials.

Recommendations get yourself some basic health insurance for the first year and negotiate as part of your contract. Work schemes are cheaper and you can cover your family quite cheaply. We pay about NZ$115/month to cover a family of 4.

Karl cool