US to NZ: Housing questions: When to buy, How much money?

flasponge

Greetings all,

I am currently on my way to fortifying and executing my plan to relocate to NZ. My reasons are various however my drive to successfully implement this is strong and forthright. I posted a while back (http://emigratenz.org/community/viewtopic.php?t=569&highlight=) with some abstract questions regarding the approach to get a work visa/permit in terms of the sequence of steps…e.g. visa then job offer then permit ect ect.

I will be visiting the Auckland area in late August for a reconnaissance mission as I call it in which I will be doing housing investigations, and other logistical planning (travel, services, and neighborhoods). I am only going to AKL for 7 days so my window is small (can’t take too much vacation here in the US) to get the required data and that is really why I am trying to network with other like minded individuals thru forums such as this.

So here are some question I though some here could provide insight to:

I am in IT, specifically a software engineer with large scale enterprise development experience. I consider myself extremely proficient (that means production experience) with .Net, J2EE, Oracle, SQL Server (and other RDMS system), Web Services and many other enterprise technologies. I am currently working for NASA and making 70K per year. Based on such experience (8+ years) and of course a 4 year college degree…what can I expect from the job market in NZ? E.g:

1. Will it take me longer than 1 month to find a job?
2. Can I expect to make over 50K NZ a year with experience such as mine?
3. Are many employers willing to sponsor? (that’s what they call it here in US, that’s why many Indians come easily to US)
4. Can I get a job offer fairly easy while on visitor pass and then (2) get the work visa and hence permit in under 3 months? For instance if I received a job offer on 1/1/05 how long would it take to get the Visa/Permit stuff taken care of? (Assuming all docs in order of course)
5. Is it a good idea to mass broadcast my resume to potential employers in the month prior to my move? This would be intended to get my name out there and to provide me direct follow-up paths when I get there?
6. Has anyone worked with an IT recruiting agency (called headhunters here) to help with search and visa/permit questions? (I am looking a immig consultants to)

Now on the housing front, are the purchasing requirements similar to the US in the sense that if a home is 200,000 it is normal for banks to require 10% down and no less? Do all NZ lenders have a benchmark for down payment requirement? Plus I can buy a home once I have employment even though I am only working via a 2yr permit?

Money questions: (basics: wife, 2 kid= 2-3 bdrm house, 1 to 2 cars, 1 child in school)
1. For those that have mad the move, what cash-on-hand would you recommend including contingency to get back to country of origin if things go wrong?
2. How much did you spend just on immigration costs?
3. How much did you spend on major relocation objectives: housing, transportation, acquisition of essential initial good, professional service expenditures (e.g. lawyer)?
4. I am planning on having 65K NZD at my disposal? I have a wife and 2 kids, would that be enough to sustain my family and I comfortably for 3 months?
5. Is a $200,000NZD home a nice home in a safe neighborhood in Auck area?

Well that’s just some questions to start (sorry for so many!). I am developing a detailed project plan in MSProject that will be outlining all the tasks , sub task dependencies and a schedule (specific to me) that will outline my ultimate schedule and plan for achieving a goal of having a job and being fully relocated to NZ from here in Florida USA by the end of November. Is that to ambitious? I will be posting it for everyone review shortly.

I will talk to you all soon…and if anyone wants to chat please IM me…and if you work in software development I would especially like to get your advice and friendship 

Thanks
Jason Doyle
PLEASE Email and IM me:
Yahoo IM and email: flasponge1@yahoo,
AOL IM: flasponge
MSN IM: flasponge@hotmail.com
_________________
Jason R. Doyle
Software Engineer

richsadams · Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject: Cost of Things

Hello Jason,

I can't answer all of your questions but I'll give a shot at a couple as my wife and I had similar circumstances and we're in the process of buying a house this week! Clapping

Good news and bad news. Downside is that you will likely be very dissapointed in any house that would sell for NZ$200K anywhere near Auckland. AKL is the most expensive city to live in in NZ. The last I looked the median was around NZ$350K and rising (although the housing bubble seems to be deflating a bit). You can find housing in that price range, but you probably wouldn't want to live in that neighborhood.

Any chance you might want to move to Wellington or Christchurch? There's not as many opportunities, but it only takes one right? And the cost is a good deal less, plus you get "bonus" points on your EOI if you'll work outside of AKL.

Also, all of the banks we contacted require that you have permanent residency before they will give you a loan. A mortgage broker may be able to find you a lender that's interested though. Anyone else have experience there?

An alternative would be to rent for a while which I highly recommend...three to six months or more. It gives you time to get things in order, look at lots of neighborhoods, traffic patterns (yes there ARE traffic problems in NZ!) schools, etc. That way you can make an educated decision. The good news is that buying a house here is much easier and quicker than in the U.S. and the costs are minimal...less than $US1K for us. Yes

Until you have employment and are ready to buy, most NZ R.E. agents will be polite, but not very interested in trying to find you a house...understandably so as many people think they'd like to live here, but not so many qualify or ever make the move. They've seen their share of "tire kickers" and you can't blame them for wanting to focus on folks that will buy...no matter how sincere you may be. My recommendation would be to stick to employment searches while you're here and know that there will be a place for you and the troops to live in when you get here.

I.T. folks are in demand (my wife's area) but the wages are a good 30% to 50% less than what's paid in the U.S. Sad

There are many upsides though so all is not lost. How fast you will find a job is hard to say, but the unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in 16 years right now so the demand is there.

$NZ65K is more than enough for three months, no worries. But be prepared to pay some stiff rents if you decide to settle in AKL.

As far as getting back home if you don't like it here, that depends on what you brought and what you want to take back. Need more input.

We used a consultant to handle our immigration, job search and just about everything inbetween. They did it all, we're here, we're working and we're happy (although a tad poorer...but happier! Laughing

) Consultants aren't for everyone, but it might be worth a look in your case. Your skills are marketable and you're education will get you in with a job offer. Be very careful with "head hunters". Anyone can say they are and there are some real horror stories on this site. Most of the bad ones prey on Asians and East Indians though. Make sure they are legit and have references. Your call.

Your biggest stumbling block will be your lack of residency. Employers are wary of anyone that might not stay...for reasons other than the job or whatever (bad medical history for example). So again, they will be polite, but you may have some walls to break down. But if you can fill their needs, I am sure they'll be interested in talking to you. And your idea of sending your CV (resume) ahead with a nice cover letter is a good one. Even calling after you send it might get you to the right person when you get here. Our experience is that most employers will take the time to talk to you if they believe you are sincere and able to make the move.

So I hope that helps and didn't take the wind out of your sails...it CAN be done so go for it! The very best of luck!! Clink

flasponge · Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 1:15 am Post subject: Thanks richsadams

Many thanks for the info and the advice that I will certainly take note of. How much did your consultant charge you for the services they provided? I got some quotes and it seems to vary greatly on what you need. E.g. if trying to get residency they charge (2000 to 10000 USD) much more versus just a job search (500 to 1000 USD). Plus what did the consultant do for you that would have been too difficult for you to do?

I will start the job search during my initial 3 months, during which I will be on the "default" visitor visa. From what I understand, US citizens can stay for 3 mos without an application for a visitor visa, I will be consider a tourist during that time.

The hard part will be coordinating the sequence of job offer, work visa and work permit. I will have a house and car slated for rent for the first 3 months before I even get off the plane. (to ease the arrival) Then in my first week I will be spending 8-12 hours a day on the internet and on the street talking to employers. The big prob I see, as you stated is that at that time I will only be a "visitor". Can I get a work visa before I get employment? From what I have heard a permit indicates "you are working" while a work visa indicates "you are eligible to work".

I’m ok with the pay cut, as long as the quality of life is what I have heard....safe neighborhoods, clean environment and a places to get away on the weekends! Nice One

Im targeting the following suburbs in AKL to find a place to rent, please comment on these (good or bad, commute issues). Since I do not know exactly where I will get a job its going to be an educated guess as to the proximity to a job:

Good
Auckland's North Shore. You'll get excellent schooling there too
upper and lower east coast bays
Browns Bay, Hillsborough
Havelock North: Napier
Auckland's North Shore City, Otago
Taupo
Ponsonby grey lynn area
titirangi laingholm huia
Parnell, Kohimarama, Mission bay, Remuera, Ellerslie, Freemans Bay, Waiheke Island.
Mt Eden, Epsom, Remuera

Bad:
Mangere, South Auckland
Sand Fly Point at the end of the Milford track
Westport or Greymouth on the west coast
Auckland City, Manukau City (South Auckland), Gisborne, Hamilton.
Birmingham

Thanks!

richsadams · Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:57 am Post subject: Making the Move

Hi Jason and All

Hmmmm, good questions. Let's see....

With regard to consultants you'll find all kinds of pros and cons on this forum. We had a number of special circumstances that required some professional evaluations and judgements plus we were both employed full-time and didn't have the time to simply quit and look for jobs. You are very right in your assessment of what consultants charge being based on an individual's requirements. It's the same with any business isn't it? So the more you want them to do, the more you pay. We paid slightly more than your top-end quote. But then we used them (and are still using them) for a number of things...not just handling our Expression of Interest (EOI) application. So far they have delivered and we have received an Invitation to Apply for Permanent Residence so we're very pleased to say the least! Mr. Green

Check out my other posting for more info about our story here...

http://emigratenz.org/community/viewtopic.php?t=801&highlight=

With regard to staying in NZ, yes you can stay for up to 90 days on your U.S. passport as a visitor, plus you can apply for and extension for up to nine months total I believe. The caveat is that you cannot tell anyone that you are job hunting! Eek

If you indicate that is your reason for visiting you will not be allowed in. It happens all of the time and everyone knows it, but the laws are pretty clear...if you're entering the country on a tourist visa, you'd better be a tourist! whip

As to your other questions, I would recommend sitting down and doing some additional research in all of the areas you've mentioned before you go any further. Folks on this forum are terrific at giving some great advice and answering questions as best they can Clapping

However, nothing beats knowing the facts and not relying on what you've been told.

One quick answer; Work Permits and Work Visas are basically one in the same. You have to apply with the NZIS in Washington D.C. for a Work Visa which is entered into your U.S. Passport. They are good for btw 12 and 36 months. (Anything over 24 months requires you to get medicals and a police report from the FBI). Upon application they can be extended (providing you are still employed in NZ) indefinitely. And you're right, you must have an offer of employment or employment itself in order to apply for a Work Visa. Welcome to "Catch 22"! Nutcase

I'd start at the NZIS website and work out from there because if you can't/don't qualify yourself as having the potential to immigrate the rest will be a waste of your time. Fill out the sample EOI form and see how you score, then compare that to the current Skilled Migrant Category pass mark. Immigration to NZ used to be much simpler and quicker. It is now fairly difficult but it certainly can be done if you meet their requirements (education, applicable skills, clean police record and bill of health, etc.). Try not to make an missteps because if you do and you want to apply later, any issues you've had will be taken into account (yes, it will go on your "permanent record"! Laughing

). The Kiwis are wonderful people to work with, but they are currently fairly picky about who they let in! Yes

I think that's a good thing, but others might disagree. Here's the NZIS website:

http://www.immigration.govt.nz/

You can also use the search engine on this forum (click "search" at the top of every page). Type in a subject word or words and you'll find a treasure of information from the good people here. Nice One

What you've heard about the quality of living is true to a great extent. Like anywhere, there are bad people, bad neighbourhoods, bad drivers Laughing

and the like. It's not perfect. You may not even like it here! That's why I always suggest that before making any commitments...visit...visit...VISIT! It's not for everyone and for some it is a drastic change in lifestyle. It's too much for some and they go back home eventually. But for others, it is a slice of paradise! cool

The areas you've listed under Auckland "suburbs" are...well...some are close enough to commute (North Shore is the priciest of all of NZ and Mt. Eden is nice, it's where Prime Minister Helen Clark lives) but...um...some are no where near Auckland...by hundreds of kilometres! Sorry, didn't mean to publicly embarrass you. Embarassed

My wife and I had the same problems because when you look on a map, NZ seems quite small especially compared to the U.S. However, btw the two islands it is about the size of California/Japan/Great Britain. And outside of the few cities, there are no freeways. The good news is there are only about 4 million people here (1/4 live in or near Auckland) so the scenery is fantastic...if you like trees, sheep, cows, deer, beaches, mountains, glaciers, etc., etc. Mr. Green

So again, do your homework...dig up a good map of NZ and Auckland and search this site and the Internet for specifics. I've spent plenty of time in AKL, but I don't live there so hopefully some other kind folks will give you some pointers on where to settle.

And I know you have your heart set on AKL, but you still might want to consider other areas. Wellington is the capital and offers some good opportunities (and some great windsurfing Laughing

).

And fair warning; all of this will not happen overnight. There are a lot of hoops to jump through. It will be a real rollercoaster ride as anyone here can tell you. There are great highs and many lows and at some or many points you'll want to give up. Wah

But if you prepare yourself and understand the process (and of course qualify), it can be done!! Yes

Let us know how you're doing! Clink