Want to tell NZIS how you're dealing with SMC?

Jamie Smith

Hi all

There are things that affect decision making under new policy.

If you care to list the big issues and not tactical detail of any one case, I'd like to put a summary of your thoughts in front of the NZIS/Minister on 28 Feb.

It would be nice to discuss the issues beforehand at NZAMI Board meeting this Friday 13th if you can post your replies soon enough.

(NZIS really appreciated last summary data that has come from polls in these forums, albeit with small samples.)

So, what are the big issues that really bug you or deter you? Uncertainty about "passmark" levels and trends? Uncertainty and lack of knowledge about the non-job offer but W2R option? Employers/agencies who are reluctant to even interview people without permits?

Let 'er rip:

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Arlevien · I Like It Here Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 56

Hi Jamie here is my contribution.

1. As stipulated in the current policy that even with a passing mark those with greater number of points are considered in the pool ( 150+). And to get to those number its obviously a need to have a job offer. Since job postings are mostly noted only open for PR or Work permit holders. This is detering most applicants.

2. With the W2R option.. they should put up an option for applicants to use this policy in the EOI for cases of having enough points but do not have job offers. THis should attrack more interrested applicants.

I am still thinking of some but I'll be posting it later.. I need to go back to work :)

karltsmith · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:46 am Post subject:

Hi Jamie,

Thanks for this thread and your time in presenting feedback from would-be migrants!!!

I have the following contributions to make to start the ball rolling!

Q1. The current policy is too heavily weighted to a 'points only' policy to rise to the top of the pool. The problem with this is that if too many applications are made from a particular job sector it can become 'oversubscribed' and thus a shift in the migrant employment category may mean that NZ does not find the right mix of people it requires but fills its migrant quota on a numbers only basis that might exclude other professions from having a fair crack!

Q2. The policy is too heavily weighted towards those having job offers already in place in a climate where would be employers know little about employing migrants and who are put off by the red tape. Hence the situation develops where employers openly state they will not consider anyone without PR or the right to PR, the latter being rather ambiguos!

Q3. Regular feedback on the passmark posted on the NZIS website would be useful to everyone!

Q4. ranton

We have shelled out twice for medicals this year along with many others to then be faced by policy changes that have negated them. There should be a legal case against NZIS for this! Having gone through the migration process using the then prevailing rules only to be faced with an answer...."sorry we've changed the rules, OK its cost you £640.00 but hey for a bit of fun we decided to surprise you! Oh, and by the way we're not going to open the new category for a month so all the info you were going to send will go out of date. Oh, and just for a bigger laugh we won't tell you when we are going to dip into the pool either so we will keep your employer waiting aswell and let you run the risk of losing the job you,ve already struggled to get". It is quite frankly crass! Sorry this one touches so many nerves. rantoff

Thanks Jamie...see you soon I hope.[/i]

Alan · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:19 am Post subject:

Jamie,

Great idea and thanks for giving us the chance here. For me personally I can totally understand why the importance of jobs ruling the roost, as well as it being better for me i.e more points than the old scheme.

However, the big problem is the uncertainty with how they are operating the system, as no one knows if they get a job offer how long it will be (if at all) before they are pulled from the pool.

So there will be many people who may get a job offer and therefore get enough points, but cannot apply with any degree of certainty that they will be chosen and in fact how quickly they will get a yes or a no.

If this could be ironed out for people with job offers then I for one believe the new system is a good one, that opens things up for a far wider range of people who will contribute to country as whole.

Thanks

Alan

richsadams · Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:41 am Post subject: NZIS Feedback

Jamie,

Add my thanks to your efforts! Yes

I agree with Alan and others regarding uncertainties. I know the Skilled Emigrent system is new for the NZIS, but without setting expectations, it makes it very difficult to plan the future.

It is a rare employer indeed that would offer a job to anyone based on the "Well sir, I'll start work when I can...someday...whenever the NZIS gets around to me" situation. They are hurting not only the applicant's chances of securing a good position, but the local employers in need of qualified employees as well.

So I'd like to see a regular, published schedule of when EOI's will be pulled and subsequent invitations extended. This way someone could give an employer a reasonable date that they could be expected to be on the job.

Just some thoughts. Thanks again for everyone's input!

Charlotte · I Like It Here Joined: 02 Dec 2003 Posts: 70

Hi Jamie,

Thanks so much for taking your time to do this.

1) It's extremely frustrating that you can only seem to get enough points if you have a job offer, and yet most employers only want to hire people who already have work permits.

I have spoken to many people about this - and everyone I've spoken to seems to share my frustration on this point.

2) I would love to see a policy in NZ similar to the 'General Skilled Migration to Australia' whereby 'Skilled–Independent Overseas Students' can apply for a work permit, upon finishing their degrees in Australia.

From what I've read, it seems possible to obtain enough points for a work permit, without specifically having a job offer.

However, when you finish your degree in NZ, you hit the same 'chicken and egg' job offer stuff.

*It would be GREAT if there was a policy in place to make it easier for people who have studied for some years in NZ - to enter the work force.*

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OK, I think that's it!

I'm not sure if maybe I'm misunderstanding some of the immigration laws I've quoted. Hope not.

Charlotte · I Like It Here Joined: 02 Dec 2003 Posts: 70

I edited my first post a little.

Another thing I wanted to ask is:

there doesn't seem to be any way that self- supporting people who don't need to work can be reside permanently in NZ.

Why not have allow people who can easily support themselves, to remain in NZ, and have a resident permit that reflects that status - but doesn't allow them to work?

After a certain number of years, they could gain citizenship, if they should choose to do so.

It would seem to me that such people could only benefit NZ's economy, whilst not taking jobs from Kiwis.

Thanks! If any of these questions are irrelevant - feel free to ignore them. Yes

SoCal Gal · Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:49 am Post subject: Want to tell NZIS

I second Charlotte's last post. Also, this may sound wacky, but I would like to see some sort of introductory paragraph one could write with your reasons for wanting to move to NZ - and how you could contribute to the country - outlined, in a summary form, so that you could lay out your case all at once. Whenever you submit a resume, there is supposed to be a cover letter that captures the essence of your work and education history, and I think some sort of summary would be very helpful in this process too. cool

Sazzle · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:25 am Post subject:

might be too late, might not be...
1) How about speeding up the processing. I want to return home with my UK partner and my family. Ive been told a year for deciding to accept/reject and then more time to process afterwards.

All I want to do is go home. Why is it being made so hard?

robster81 · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:40 pm Post subject: immigration policy

my wife (31) and i (31) want to move to NZ; we are both well qualified, want children and have not in considerable capital which we would bring to NZ, and believe that most countries would welcome such applicants, but we find the current immigration policy, and the situation it creates so uncertain that making realistic plans to migrate almost impossible. natually we understand the concerns that have prompted the changes in policy but iam certain that the actual effects on exactly those immigrants any rational immigration policy is designed to attract are exactly those people who are put off by uncertainty. we want to have children soon and would like to do so in NZ but those wishing to make a geeniune investment in NZ are unsurprising put off from doing so; like any investment a rational assessment of benefits and risks is required and there are now so many geay areas that such an assessment is guess work. please please can some one inject at little sense??

regards

rob

Jamie Smith · Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject:

Thanks all, some good ones here. Please don't just let one person say a comment, if you agree, say so. Reason being we want to show the degree of sentiment as well as the issue, don't want anyone sneaking off saying "oh yeah, but only one person said that".

Pitch in!

karltsmith · Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:

Hi Jamie....me again,

Are there any kernels of wisdom to report from your board meeting????? cool

Jamie Smith · Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:16 am Post subject:

Some good stuff yes, but can't post it here. Uhoh

Will have to wait and see how things pan out with Minister.

About all I can say is general is SMC numbers will fall, perhaps to a point where 110-115 will suffice.

Cheers

Mari

Hi Jamie and everyone,

It was relieving to read these posts and discover I am not the only one dissatisfied with this new SMC. I know the aim of this category is to find skilled applicants but I cannot help but think it was not designed with CREATIVE INDUSTRY in mind.

I don't think NZIS is doing its creative industry any favours with the current format of EOI. You cannot tell just from the education level how good a creative one is. Two people with the same background and 'points' may be of totally different level in their creative thinking and thus of different value to NZ creative industry.

How do you measure the creative brain power and good ideas? Not with points anyway. What really matters when you are looking for a job in this line of work is (and many times in the following order):

- your portfolio
- your merits
- your referees
- how quick you can start
- your qualification

For me as an Art Director, this means I will have to go from agency to agency showing my portfolio as I do not have the oh-so-vital network of contacts through which these positions in creative industry are usually filled. Besides, you aren't normally given a job offer immediately but you are expected to CONTRACT for the potential employer for a while so that they can find out what you're like to work with and if you are as good as it looks on the paper. How am I supposed to do that without work permit? It's a catch 22!

As mentioned above, I am an Art Director, with over 12 years of experience and international merits&awards in advertising/design. I do concider myself a skilled person (and so do my referees) and thus a Skilled Migrant in my own field. On Friday 13th I received a letter declining my EOI because of LACK of points. It came as a shock as I had self-assessed 130 points even without a job offer and NZ work experience.

After calling to find out what the problem was, it turns out NZ doesn't recognise any Finnish qualifications (I'm a Finnish citizen). I had read about the 'qualifications assessment' but had somehow managed to misunderstand NZIS's instructions thinking I would be asked for the thorough QA in case it was needed, after having been invited to apply for residence. Instead, the application was plain declined (still costing me the fee NZ$315) which means I can neither update my application nor add to it. I was merely told to get my qualification assessed by NZQA an then re-apply.

I was shocked to find out how much NZQA charges and how much paperwork is involved despite it really guaranteeing anything, I don't know how I should proceed from here on. Of course I am prepared to do ALMOST anything it takes to land me a permission to stay in the country, but I need to do that cost-effectively.

As it is a bit difficult to professionally present yourself from overseas, I had to come here in person. I HAVE TO be here for interviews when they arise. What makes this all a bit too exciting is that as a tourist and a Finnish citizen, I have just 3 months (or extended up to 9 months) to find a job and get a work permit. In normal circumstances that's more than enough but unfortunately the lack of work permit is not doing me any favours.

Ha, this all reminds me of Ruby Wax's Waiting Game!
And the clock is ticking...

Good luck with all of your applications and efforts!!

Mari (a new member starting from today)

Arlevien · I Like It Here Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 56

jamie,
thank you for the feedback. How bout the one below, will this cover applicants even w/o job offers but reaching the marks given?